Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Herald van der Linde: “Bibit Indonesia Muncul di Majapahit”

Episode Date: October 29, 2024

“…Majapahit adalah negeri di mana amnesia bertakhta; para penguasanya telah melupakan pelajaran-pelajaran dari masa lampau.” Begitu gurat penulis dan ekonom Herald van der Linde dalam bukunya, ���Majapahit: Intrigue, Betrayal and War in Indonesia’s Greatest Empire’ (2024, pp 231). Dalam percakapan ini, Herald dan Gita membahas hikmah yang bisa kita petik dari kelahiran, kejayaan, dan keruntuhan Kerajaan Majapahit — agar amnesia sejarah tidak lagi menjangkit pikiran bangsa kita. Herald dan Gita mengangkat: 1) peran penting Kertanegara (Raja Singasari) dalam membangun ‘fondasi’ Majapahit, 2) dahsyatnya pengaruh sosok perempuan dalam menggiring kerajaan Majapahit ke era kesuksesan, 3) tiga hipotesis yang meredupkan peradaban tersebut. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #HeraldvanderLinde ----------- Gabung Langganan Channel Endgame agar kami dapat terus memberikan konten yang berkualitas: https://sgpp.me/becomemember ----------- Jelajahi dan diskusikan lebih lanjut episode ini di https://endgame.id/ ----------- Untuk ajakan kolaborasi dan kerja sama, hubungi kami di sini: https://sgpp.me/contactus

Indonesia is a bigara but in the world but in Indonesia, people are not known this. Actually, Indonesia has been the world of the world.

Kerta-Nagra made a condition for Macea Pahit to come from and that was very important because there ancement new

from Mongol. What do you What do you What do you? ...cata-Negarer to bring uping Kirtangue? Omboy.

I think that she was that he was to be like that Kubeiakal. It's very big up, I mean I'm in fact that. So, while Gaiatri, who's very much,

inciptaken stability, and three Badaewe, who made-enigat-stand or menincat-can stability pastcha the humatia. So, we actually have been be very

why about whata this? Why, budaa pahit? Muddhae. Maudaugh. Hello, Treman,

today we're getting a Herald Vandrelin. Heal was a Indianianist but also a person who has

been called one about Jakarta, two about about the part Pondal and three

that's interesting about about Machapahit. Harold, thank thank you.

Thank you. I'm here. Hadia here. Telling, de, how you can't know how you can't get to Indonesia. Yeah, yeah. I'm in Indonesia. Uh, in fact, 1990. So, but I'm not to Indonesia.

I'm going to be in Llandia. Because the money for to Indonesia, not there. I work in Belanda, in the middle of the time to make a food for people constructs in the, in the, uh,

I'm going to give upos, then I've got to be, the, And I think, there's I'm saying to Irania, come to America, you know, to come on to where you? Now, it's going to be able to

Indonesia. Maybe because in Belanda, we see an economy Indonesia, tourism in Indonesia, we're always be promosikation. I also have Paman, he's niqued with

Tanta she, he's born in Indonesia. So, the story of Indonesia there's always there. And then my I said, if you're going to Indonesia, the same thing's got to be it's

so I think that's right, I'd like, I'd like to get, uh, I'd like to get the ticketing. Then I'm going to get Jakarta, because I'm in the city-besar. You go, Bali, so I was to Bali, Tiber in Bali, cleling Bali, as a tourist,

then to Lombok, want Indonesia Timor, then, and then in Ferry, I met with one person, he's a little bit more, umu-nia, two-a-year, I think I'd say he

panadol. Then the othergernia and I said, oh, this is a little back, I'll give you know, okay, but percommunications is a lot of

because of Indonesia. I can't say, what's-gobar, nassiguer, and that's just, that's just, that. That's just all.

Now, setla-it-in-na-tibed in Lombok, I want to go-bis. There's a mobile lewet, then, there, this gendilagher, thenelang, then, and the other than they're going to go to where? They're going to be able to beetsk to santa. So, I'm going to do. So, I'm going to. Now,

They said, if you call on the Jakarta, so I'd be called the Gapal. Maybe six months later, I'm in Jakarta. Tegra, telephed to be able to, come in there. Jaila Jaxa. Why, why did Jala Jaxa? They said, they said, you're going to be able to. So, maybe one, two time again. They'd jump to, I'm going to be able to bea to bea.

Now, Rewananin'n't Maybe one A day to be in a while Hoursen It's just in the same Blan Wow

Toon pericotn't I'm inottisia again Six-Svulan Lacki Moraa, I'm To put puas I'm going to

Musjit, I'm in Mucjit They're allang-tawn There's a other year I'm in a lot of I'm in person So I'm just

I'm also I'm actually I'm supposed Bacaa in Indonesia. They're not people. They're in a lot of small. I'm in a small psalmings, it's a lot of bambu,

but it's very much. I think if I pick China, Korea, or the country that or other, or people asing to Belanda, the country, I'm living, with the people of the world, it's, it's not

the book of the end up to me. So, I've got to have in the and then, the other than actually in Jakarta, Indonesia from a very different side and I enjoyed it fantastic. So I had a great time.

Achina, I've lulled, I've lulled, I'm lured, university in Blanda. I didn't even try to work in Blanda. I'm going to be back to Indonesia again. You're what?

Economy. So, yeah, I got economy, macroeconomy, that's the name of the time, and when I'm going to I'm back to Indonesia so much, I'm going to tour, manager

in China for somementara, and uh, carry care of here, buy compass in the past week, there, there's there,

there's someone who people who sell the coran, I buy compass, I see the loomangangangangha, actually there's one, uh, bank,

that's there, the, he's, the, artagraha, I've got yeah, yeah, the time for the same as a analyst

and then with that I'm to the business pastasaham, that's about you, as a analysis. What is you you want to do you?

For I, Nulis, it's, making I'm happy, yeah, so, so, first,

Nullis, it for me to sharpen my mind. If I'm I'm going to say something. So, so in the the business, I'm saying, I'm saying, I'm saying, what, HSBC, I have to write my own reports. Because with that, it's very much of what, what, the story of what, what I'm going to show up to show up with client we? But, but if I'm going to becky

book, I'm what I'm because I'm going to something is like a art. I'm not going to be able to the penulies that's a good, but it's like almost like you have to refine the words. It's something I'm very enjoy. If I'm just like, I'm going to enjoy.

If you know, if I'm suchapagint, I'm going, I'm asking me with my sister's my name. He's been saying what, I have to be able to be here, I have to come to someone. Bagous. I'm going to be in front. You're going to be in front. We're going to be able to eat.

But I'm very enjoyable. Doing the research is something that I really enjoy. Many of the word literati that's very much be used to literati to be mullis. But many

that's not I'm not pahom if if people can't know if it's the way tauta

yeah better than yeah yeah yeah very right and because

even if we're even we're using We have to have to say something, or we have to say something, but if you're not yet the same kata it's important. So,

sometimes if I tell us, it's really, I don't understand this, the same time we're asking, because what's the what's the meaning? So you have to do a bit more research, and then the end up to list. Oh, yeah,

this is impulani. It sharpens the mind. It's very good. And I'm in the first of the lastriouser, I'm going to be able to beaqarjana. After that, I'm going to stay in Pasammingu. I'm going to get to meet with people. I'm going to Fatawati, pinded to Mampang Praphatan,

to bea gungcachang, tingar in some places in Jakarta. I'll I'm at the other thanatahraja with the same from the pastawad Makasar, Surabaya, Jakarta in the pastoral I'm

with my sister's she had in the person that also and when I was in Jakarta we take away I'm bringing, I've got kind of a little so I think I

just wanted number telpon yet so he'll be There's the phone that He's the phone at the phone He's not been putt in the same time So I'm I'm going to contact He'd, but I'm in 6 months

He'd be catamom He's always a bit bit Sibook, I'm actually Atchino, I was at I'm at the can'tro I, I'm at San Francisco I'm giving him Cartoon from San Francisco

I've told him you, I've I've said I've got to be I'm going to be like like, what I'm like, so I'm like, so I'm going to say, so if you're going to be the phone to come, so you're going to be able to tell me. Three mingue then, he telepon, and we'll get to meet again. Now, that's also, I'm sorry. We're getting to meet Saturday.

But just, malam, I'm going to be with my friend, so I think, oh, adieu, I'm sorry, I'm thinking, oh, do. I think, oh, do I, say with my friend my friend's in the country, in, in, in the room, if there there's the phone for me, to come to come in my, if I'm still, bring in my, yeah, don't remember, yeah, okay,

he said, the sister's day, the room, said, I said, there, but, but, you'd be there, maybe it's not there, maybe, so, he'd be there again, so, he'd be able,

so, yeah, I'm gonna, I'd say, said, he said, she said, I'm sorry, I, said, I'm, so, I telephed, my, I'm 10y. He's like to block M. And and then I'maula, soarinded we're getting in there. And, yeah, it's got to meet again. What's

what you make you make you know what? We're doing it's with him. We're going to be able to be a lot. We're very things are the same. We love to travel, but we have some value yeah, what yeah, Malay, yeah, yeah, moral yeah, yeah,

yeah, he's got crafting, work with her hands, cooking, wow, I'm cooking, like that, I'm just,

if I'm, I'm gonna be, I'm gonna be, call just, I'm gonna, but, but he's gonna do, that,

so, so, we're interest that but value- yeah, so, if I'm, He's about

He'll bea He's like that. Yeah, too Yeah, like the Yeah, something that he's in front of, if we're to go to go to the world

Yeah, we're taking on the other, he'll see the other than and it's like It's like very, very, very nice. Well,

before we cupas Bucco under Maja Pahit, what you can what you can't for what you can't that's about about buddhares and shuckur-sucur-sucur

in-nulis what is to be plajury one thing that's a lot of sometimes, if I'm in dook of it, bookinia, book for gampang to beca, also, sometimes, it's not, but we can't be able to

I buy book I've got a lot, I'ma I'm a booker, I'm gonna' I'ma'embourgingia for anacum of six years. Volcano, how much much, like it, we're gonna. We're gonna' every day, 20 minutes, look it's just, be it's

used for them. We're gonna, we're gonna we're just there's been bacto. Misalya, maybe, bachia, Bacaa So it's the really that we're Panting. It's something

interesting. Bisa'ar, can seea, biserra, can politic, can also massac. Now,

uh, for me for me, I'm backa a personulis that I'm very there, there's a,

there, there's a English writer. I'll look at him, Selman Rochty, for example. they're good. With that's about it. With that's about it.

Imaginacinacina. Imagination. And from there, they can't see it. Oh, they're going to be like, and if I'ma'bite, this I travel

with my sister's my. He looked at the worldiann't, like I said. He said, he said, I said,

I didn't see it. It's important. It's... It's... But, but it's... But, but it, I'm going to... That's the details.

that's the details. I see that we can't look at the word of the livesly. Yes. To make it live lively. You know. You know, under India. The first,

on the Jakarta. Why, what are you? Majapahit? Bucan, or perjouang of our Dekka from Belanda, or whatever,

or what? Why? So, the, the fact, the world, in Belanda, as a topic, because it's about

in Belanda. But for me, to make sure Indonesia, we have a basis, we have people, we have a story, and we have been

the first, I think, bibit Indonesia muncunshulness in Majapahit. Indonesia, now, actually,

the al-al-nia-pahed. So, with that, I think, I have to make up to make up to make upanisha this, why I started to look at Majapahit. Bung Karno very, Mugnakernau,

using majapahit as referencee, for many times, pro-kemerdekaan and at the time-kemerdicaan also. Okay, if I'm going to try, pilah from the sysi timeline or al-waptu. Abbat

about the 10 we've got to happen we're getting and t'empsychellesan Pembangunan chandhi Boro-Budur by Shalendra and we're seeing the clotsetus

the gunnum merapi in 2008 but it also I'm not upakhan if I'm a lot of chandy that's that's about

that's intersex with two other than I'm think I'm think that's in Nasty Tang in Tienk

The second the two that that's the first abasia or Abbasit in the

Timur Tengue Tengue Telling, de dynamikana how to in the first of the first of Indonesia, so, by the way of the way that'shawait.

So, by the way of it, Sriwijaya is between China and India, and Persia also. Tibatibatiab we have munchal, Shalendra, and when, that, in Jawa, many of the power of China and India

They're also Buddhist And Buddhist, and Buddhist It's just Buddhist that, mainstream Hindayana, but very esoteric. In fact, we've got, the people Jawa is,

the people, people, and and abel, and barang, and it's called they're over it their own, or their own

their also. Burrubu, that's one example. So, Indonesia, can't be able, identity Indonesia, it's,

that's already from there, that's not something that comes from India or China but it's not really. And it's also very important that they're actually, for Majapai, that they're going to be made to Jawa Timur. So in Jawa Timur, it's just a pusat. Because maybe meletus for me and pari, right. Now, one for Mujahid, it's very important, it's really, the

Taman Elangha. So, we talk about 1,000. Abat 11th. Abat 11th. Yeah. He who amelah two territories. Benar. And it's very important.

Because, Munchin, but also, meruntu Maja Pahit, terkaitan with location Maja Pahit. Now,

uh, we've asked that, we'll back to Elangah. Elangah, want to missa for two he might as a lot of people who

to make sure his own with she's coming with air suci but he kind of in poin asem

it means spiritual he didn't demisar negatia he didn't make sure

he's also he to to make consatucked the willayana, still can't

the land as wellaray. Now, the Uriere, it's in the place the craton Majapahit. So, a bit of course

they'd pick the place to make cratronia because it is a place very important, symbolis,

spiritual for them. So, symbol to two willowal, that's in the other there.

Kerta Negara, in the years, he also went to be in ceremony to celebrate that sort of unification. Maybe before

it, in the first, in the first, that was manifestation from intrigue and dynamica that's the same one of Rok

yeah, right, right, right now, how much background's quite unique but can't jemma so the mainpimping raja who made declarations dirrashikin as a bumula Rajasa

how that can't be to be it. The story that, it's there in Pararatum Ken Arok She's She's about he's about he's about Brahma

And she's really He's a lot of People who's He's used to Mugnau To get a He's beenchurry Machemakit

But he can't Mutt'emannu Tunggul Amatung Raja at Singsari Wacku That's Shingasari Nama'amil But he's not allowed

Penting that And he can to bea with lichick. Lama, people think it's just just ajarita, but in the 80s, we got some

couple of copperplate and namannes and it's written. So, so, so, I'm really, there. Now, that's

many of the story that maybe not bad, but Ken Arach as a historical figure, do you,

there. And he cameas' Singsari as a manpinkin, and can't even because there's two kutka

and in the Battle of Gunter 222nd, he menang and he for the first time it and it's one person upersatucking the village but

after it, it's so there's so many that's a lot And Parapanca, in the country he's a lot of the other than

he's about, he's actually, he's really not much to list, because it's really a story that's more enough, so he's not too detailed. But we don't know, there are some people who

who are both men who, because all of them become to be aja. There's one Vizu Vahanaana that's just enough I'm a lot of my godin'gara Kirtnagra, the Ketanagra

Wau, while I'm still umuinenna, so long as I'm still still alive, I'm still able to um, uh, uh, and when Jhna manana

Mnani has beeningal yeah, yeah, he, Kataa de Kataa, so the umuvenna, uh, He's got to bea legitimized as a raja. And that's important.

Because Kerta Negara, Mata'Hubahed for Mujah to be munchal. Because he's quite, and he also pinter with, with the support of the Islam of Buddha and Shiva that, he can unify the lens. And that was very important because there was important.

Because of Mongolia. Tumptuja, if we're going to acu to portion of the abat the 13, that's a lot of the United States. Tertan-Negra, became raja, then I'mlaika, and then to belaiq, and then consolidated Tiong, as a baguagian of dynasty Yuan,

then, then, then boy, yes. what is what is about about how about upon kuping yeah?

Yeah. That's it. So, try, one of the America come, depoting to the

or hid again and he'sur back to what? What is the reaction of what? No.

No. No. I'm... I think that he's still he's up to be able to combat

he's in two things one thing that's military, he has been military and he

must be to Bali Madura to Kalimantan and Sumatra but he also

sheep as spiritual he may do some tentric sort of ceremonies upchara that

He's like, something, something that's about, with a power, spiritual power, he's the power, he's percary, it's, and the power, it, he must be partum, that,

which is given to several places. It's a spiritual halo. So, in a spiritual helo. So, in a military, and in spiritual, he's still he's about kublaiqa.

And that's important because kublaiqan should make to Thailand, Burma and also to Vietnam. If you're going to

the place now Singapore, now, bissaagangang that's coming in Singapore, they're going to

Singapore, yeah, he'll hang business so it's, so it's, so it's, so it's been

saying, he has the goodcund, from Hindu, but but he's still-politic, now, Mengchi, that's diplomat, that's a bit unfortunate, he's a bit unfortunate,

he'd be a lot, he'd must be internegara, you, ah, you'll, you, give just something with me, and, and, you, the bow-baw-klaik-an,

and we've got, we're not, But it's just. But, but the book you believe, you're in the way of our lives. And you can't make what you want. But Kyrtonnegeara, they said,

that's, you know, in the way, in the way, that's, maybe, not, because not there

there's other, to make projectsican Kadaulatan, or even reprojectsican nationalism that there's in the

and the other I think that's I think that's because I'm diplomat he had had upacara special

on 21 November 2889 in Uruguay the place that in the Pohan Asim that so

he had had put year because he was a symbol I'm I'melike, that's I'm part of the way of myelaya

it's the way that's the last the day of the Indonesia, maybe, or Nusantara. So I'm think, he he's mercia, yeah, spiritual I'm ready, he's up, like Kublai Khan, that

spiriturial high, and we have to if, if, if not, yeah, how, we're, we're, we're, we're,

we're, we're, we're just, But she's just, he's just to know, if you've got to puttung cupinia diploanakhan. Consequence he's not, he's notar. Tunguaguan, he's not too, Kulakhan, he'll be able to come with the entarrenes.

And, and it's also, the argumentation, permintana from the lawycan also, in the world, batas wajar. Absolutely. Yeah, right? Yeah, right. or to the pathah. Of course,

there's the Qataharanahra and thengahs, then after Kowblaika or from Dignati Yuan, Timbabah, who'd been there's pergisera, Kekwasaan.

Yes. Timbulah. Yes. Cericah. Yeah. How about? So, Katernagara,

is yet. And that he'll that'shawarra, that's in the sameasari. Dullo, we had been kingasari, Kediri d'i

Degu'u'n-Arook Singasari jadei no one. The other, the Kediri, still. So, the, they're,

they're, this is a bit time for us. Now, they've had been the entire And they're in the Uttarra to Singhasari and he'll be making many ribut, be it around people tell you'll come. And

they're saying they've got madeira pretty. That's the part of the right. But right. But, but the same thing isar from the southern to Singhaarie. With diam, damn. So, they didn't know. They're also being in chasm from south. Kerta, the said-pawed even though, even though, we're just to be able to

get-to-coulde. How, how can't I be like this? I'm going to be able. Pastly, it's not not-as-ac-ac-al. Salar, yeah. And, when he

made, the plas-a-saint-Sarie to be in the Uttara, to be-lawan-it-to-lawan, he didunjune from back. Now, He's the war that. He was the same, he's still quite,

but, yeah, actually, yeah, not enough, and with a pistol, maybe, he'd be burned. And, singas-a-sarri, and it's abacus. So, this is how'd Radeen Wijaya to manfacantan, perwira from Mongol? Mm.

For the kentingan, he's been able to-tahtha. Radam-wejaya Radauja has been and he has been in Madura he has been a dukungan from one of the government in the country even though

the governor it's really lichick so but it's the out of Radeem Vajaya when it was the governor memmastikaed that maybe better I'm going to be able to Ikewitoui-a-a-a-jahed

He said, he said Vigua Vigua, come down. But, but he's going to beaunguang, that's a situation. Now, it's a biger-raja, name it. He's a man. He's a big. Now, when the Mongol d'Ungal datang, they're going to be able to be sure. He's where this Karate Nagara that's gonna'ubleyakhan two years

to the morning So, he asked, they're talking, where's this country, turned out of Kirtanagara Zudah didn't, Trenata,

Singshari, they're not, they're gonna, but Radaan Bidjaya came, and said, say, if, if you're bantu

me, to, hancurk, Kota-Gidiri, this, I'm backal. so they think, we're back again,

to come back, so they're going to so they're in, there's a war, they winned, they're making Rada Wijaya for, as far as official

how you say that, submit to Kublaqan but Rada Wijaya said, I'll, besok, there upchara, we'll be pester because they're at a lot of theirang

but again, I think maybe there are raja in blackang who said, they're making them in a lot, we're not going to be able, we'll want we're going to beongol this.

Now, mongrel this tibbun, they're, they're, they're, to, the, the shipmelling,

admiral of, they've had three laksamana, and pasting, they're what's in here and the other than what's in the again, so, they're going to move to go back to China

just. But, what's important, because they've had military technology, Japan, as a lot of, like Canon. Pasti, they're not able to be able, it's all right, because they they're trying to be injamb when PESTA

that, so many Canon and new military technology, still, still thereadu Jaya. So, Tiberate Bidhirae, tibati, t'i'i'i and shingasari, rusak, hancur, has been made to make a major pahead. But he has also military equipment to build a new empire. And, the cuthulliqan, also, is a lot more,

position politicna. Yeah. And it's got sick, sicker to. Yeah, it's got to get riddened. Yeah, and if I'm sorry, in one time he's been in the last year. and in the world, so,

so, actually, for the world to the other thaner, it's far, so, they're not too be too-d-d-duly. So, in the

time, Majapah, Amaggajama, but Radin Wijaya is, um, Bufthewa, um,

...theiranguagos, which is... ...that... ...that... is a lot of the way that's notherty. Yeah. It's a lot of Tried, but also Gajamada.

Yeah. So, so, now, Vakto Kediri, this is Mongol, that's about 1292.

Yeah. And, Mugitamada later, yeah, back to, now, so,

so, so, So, a few years ago, he's about 20th, there's a raja there's a guynaqara that's very

lema and perna, he has to be in Kraton because he ancam with the people in the cotan

the Vakto that Gajamada the Bayangara the elite forces So he

I'm from the same I'm a raja, I'm going to come back to me, but I'm going to be able to come from you, but I'm going to be able to be carapton to the place that he back again so, so after Jaya Nagara did beawahua, we're not in the place we don't know, from the

area, from the desert, or maybe, in where, in where, in the way, he cameh, and bicared with people. He said, Jaya Nagara Mn Mardi, died, he'd, he'd be borned, there, there's not a lot, And with the reaction, so they're so he's a lot more. So he's a lot more. So he's a so, he's a play. So he's a play. But he's playing, not only having military background,

but as a play play he's pretty. So he looks, oh, this is I can't believe. This is I'm this. So, actually, with the person that he can be able to say, he can't, he isaigua of the the other than the the Uyghurahsiae again, as a Raja in Maja Pahit. But we can see a little of the people that, so

it's an intelligent man. Probably Kraschurazuada that, maybe the bada'a'a body also big, but intelligence. But what What's just

To motive After the Gajamada Afteringah Yeah Is it smata Because of Pandangangang she Bahaw that

Not bad for Casuant Negara Because of Pemimping that Lemah Or maybe also

Dorongan From Gaiatri Yeah I think There are Dora There Righty. Gayatri

that, Gaiatri when Kyrgyatheu Kare, and Kriahedanagra, had been said with diplomat that, before he had tootung kupinna, said it's been, that I have some of my own, that's the

kind, this, Gaiatri. So, Gaiatri, that, maybe should, what I mean, maybe 20, maybe, maybe, he's over 50, or or 40-an. Now, He's about,

about the Pampinesha'amara and maybe he's about Jadahadi this, that's people's pinted, people who have a good thing with the army, people's like quite too, so, past, and the person who didn't have

a new family, the royal family, People's more than they're more than they're like that's about the royal family. So, so maybe they're saying communication. And, actually, yeah, if they're making one of the rencimer, to make a lot of un-gaining Jaya-Negara, it's, has to be hapushed, has to have to burnu. there's the

there's the another one of the doctor we could. We don't know what what's the same thing but it's godjamada he pina

the loyalty from Jaya Nagara to Gayatri I think it's also very pragmatic man pragmatis

because he know this like I think for my career I'm more than I'm more and he

got Duconation of Gayatri. Telling, how much how much about it, how he's making manipulasi the story. So, Jaya Nagara so, Jaya Nagara

so, and has looked at doctor his, one of the doctor has had a history, and, it's, that, Jaya Nagara, yeah,

a little senangue with hisri, we don't know what what what's but doctorateau but doctor he's called, he's

yeah, he's like, it's sick, has to be able, maybe he has been boil or what, there's something that has to beotong. Bactuio,

Gajamada, said with the penjaga, let's, we're to, um, to help the raja

this, you, you, come out just, just a lot of three in the room in the Jaya Nagamada. The doctorate the doctor's

started a little bit of operation but this is not so Gajamada said maybe you have to back a bit more than this so he'd be able to be it so he'd back a little now and we don't know what

what's there's maybe doctor's the same or Gajamada but Jaya Nagara did burn him And that, gajamana, he said, he said, he's notherne, and he said, because he's ill, yeah, look, hisistrii's, and maybe Gayatri longsum said, yeah, so, someone, long as well, don't, don't, don't omong a lot, like, like, it's bad. So, they're But with that's just but that's just to set up

again, in a very special when just something that's something that he could do something decisively himself again, so he's a clever operator. What's the way that's... What's what's what's about how much about?

Tetapidilitar, yeah, right? Yes. Credibility's not, it's, big. Apalagi, after they topang by Gayatri. Yes. Now, after the occasion it, tumbleh,

peran womanita that's new, Tribuneatung God Devi. Yeah. If I saw look at the era or mass that, So, manita, is a lot of the way of the way. So,

uh, setla Jaya Nagara, tribunate dunga dewee be unkart as a queen. If, not the same, there's queen

in the sejahari and the Majapaii this. And I'm still being, what he

actually? Because we don't know too, but but yeah, but again again again, but Zadang, it's

the Jember to Selatan, again. Gajamada did suru to look what what happened in there,

no, he, the, but he was in Gahina Tunga Deweevi also Munchu, and they're in

their, and finally, they're, they're back again, and they're back again. So, that,

Gajemada, did get, as a party. First time for party, the area of Singshaarri, and, uh, it's not far as party, as far as far as much

Mahjaheat. But tribunal Tunga Dewe, it'spardee, it's like, it's been wrong, because he's gandonged his borgue but when there

there, he also there, the charisma. Yeah, there, there isa yeah, there's a woman that's quite actually.

That's very That's quite That's quite he's a nerve centre. they know, they don't know they've got to know, they've got to have information or spy in many

so they have information many, and they're in behind, they're in front of their, so as a trio, it's very important. And, actually, Tribunea Tungwai, have a son,

that's only muruk, and he can't as a raja puncat in the Zaman Majabahit, because that, so we have so we have to thank

what they're doing, with that's the same manateau. Yeah, yeah, better. We're too, we're also associating manja pahit

that's with the other but after after the time the power three Buanna Tunggadewi Belial too is also

Mujah or bemaudah or bequehionan buda Dichitain, how much after after after a decade

that's the power of the Tijuana T'uana Tunggadiwi Maja Pahit is, the way, buta, and how much more than transcissi to Hindu

it's been so, right, before Tribuana Tungu Deviwi, the banguangana raja, it's,

but Buddha, so Buddha more better. Um, actually, the Bhaqa country,

there's, because he need, the support from Buddha and the Agamanii Hindu, to,

manangang can the garran he, actually, Sovah buddhya, And there'shadi, And there's a chandy chandhi Not far from

Malang It's, it's Hindu, but atasn't it's stupah Buddha. So that's the chandi that's really abysa, that

two agamac but after that it, Buddha is more more, but haya-muruk Marubbara it. He's more than, He'shruing to Shiva.

He's been a raja. He has been like Darmopati, one council, can't be able to be there, some people, there are some of the people who are in life. Now, Pra Panca,

that's penulis, the other than Gama, he, he, we don't know, but, he, the, he,

the, from the Buddhist that he's also he's also so he's also some of the few years he looked

chandy buda rontok not did renovations he renovations again so Hindu

must be ending after haya murook Sopudism influence Tum, we're better. We can't see from the story of what Hayam Vukh but it'spardy chandhi, agarotok, that didn't renovations.

It's like, she said. Transition to Hindu, is more bottom up or more top-down. Bottom-up, in art, because electorate-ne. Yeah. More than more more thanisive or conversi to Hindu

or the other thanakhan because he has been transcissi from Buddha to Hindu I'm not sure I think from bottom of many people actually in the in the world

Kraton they have their own and many many still many people Shiva and Buddhism that's more important

in Kraton It's It's about Ha'uhrushed To make How you say that To make something for He's indeed To make

Identity for He's indeed Maybe he Chendron to Hindu Aja Maybe he Beharap Medaput

Dukangangue I'm not too Pasti, I think The Bauda and Hindu Buddha and Hindu only in Karatong and

the royal family in the other Mahjapai in the desa small, they're not too include Hindu or Buddhist, but they have agamahs and animist, jaywain, much, much bigot, much, bigot.

Hayamuruk, the mass of jayana Mahjaheat. What is the same private, and as far as than than than the other before you.

We can't even make what personality it. He's very much art, and, uh, and,

uh, and such, but I'm gonna say, in some of some, he, too,

there's also der-gantung gajamada. He, He's 13-a-a-a-a-a-old. So, he almost 30-tawn, he's under-gajamada. Gajamada,ada, has been long, uh, has been

a power-sang-out. So, he's, really, run the empire. Hanyamoruk, only as a symbol. And, He's Hindu to make the because there's

there's gothameh that more than if there. If there matter, people who want to Kraton, they'll make

advice or what, they'll be sure with Gajamada from the thing whoo. So, the really, BDia,

also, not dampang. And we can see a couple of times a couple of times, but he's about Gajamada yeah, there's about

yeah, it's about that, that's wild bhappah, Rasmi, that, that, did tell you, after they, what, namah,

did, make, on, from, from the guntalak to najapahit. Yeah, so,

the, haya-mouru, car did nikaii. And Gajamada I've said I'm part of the area the idea of Kirtakara

but Jawa Barat Belong in the Baja Jara They've made deal Mugin'n we

can be a princess from Jawa Barat with Hayam Buruk Now we have a attention what

what's Only from the runga, so it's not the same. So, but they're not biased too. But, but when they're mubat, in Changu, so, not yet,

Um, Hayamuruk, there's not. And Hayamuruk, I'm going to get to with, uh, princess,

that can be the, but Gajamada said, I see, I'm aty-hurt, I'm at all. But, they're at allang-as. So, the other than I think, how, how, how can't be it? We're going to have pesta-nika, but there's not a lot of people here. This is aeneer.

So, they're like, surrogate. And patina from the side of Sunda, the shudder, disurroo-bicered with Gajemada. Now, in the Lusina, like gajamara like that'sar what's in this? you're like what?

It's like to beaughamate I'd be like that. And he also said, you don't lupap position you. Princess

Jawa Barat this is concubine, selir. Not queen Now that wasn't deal on the

so it's so it's so it's so it's so it's so it's the bruntem. back to beaam-hruh,

he was really ishamehruh, this ish, but he's in Kraton-a-ta-ta-tun-u. He's very passive. And, at least, Gajamada, back to Kratu. Bicara, this isan-v-veru, said, this ancaman.

They want to mancham we're, it's just, the bohungy us. So, they're malawan, and, actually, it's just part. Now, we know, it's all of, that's about it's

that's unas almost all of the princess maybe they're in a lot of people or maybe he's been able to be able to but after the after the abutabat and gajamada dimarim

amarang, ahya murek pasty very very, he's going to bea pesta, what more than have hisri

Arrheny. And, after the war, he's the Paman because if they're not also also cannot, so, archiniaeat, and he's very much. And maybe they're going,

this Gajemada, too strong. We're too much. And Gagintu, there's too much. Lare. We don't know to where. Hylang, he'll. Dicaree, Dichari, where,

there's not there's just now that's just a lot of gajamaada there, see what? who's the right of this? And they're saying, so they're making him back again and we can't be it, bigot, too, lemma. Paman denker and Hayammerg

and Mughan, himself, they're not even, survive, in the people yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but it's indispensable

yes but that the time in the institutional building that it's

not that's it's it's more time and even even and even

even yeah, I can I can I'm not, I'm not quite you're like, to give up to give uprook, not to give meland allure allot of

Delegation of Parajaran. Yes. Yeah, right? That's right. They're in Bubat. That's right. They've got to beajaan, but they're not

making institution that can be brought from, from, from one generation to generation that. Yeah. Gajamada, and Gajamada

Meninga, yeah, actually, yeah, it's been still still more than Gepaite. But, but we're still

left the point we're going, we're onto, there, there, civil war, nanty, they're too

undergandum one. And it's important for one of one of the country, that you

have you have, you have institutions, and it law, and, and, and, and, uh, uh, uh, uh, trias politics, we're and much, much, like that's, it's very important, that it's important,

that it's been brought, from one generation to generation and can be able, um, and can't, yeah, memanjang, uh, zaman, uh, the reajaan, but, yeah, that's They did not build I'm not made up. I'm not I'm going to make of Japhahit with a few other where they're too siftingmortalsak

to immortalization someone. But not too sibuck to immortalization institution and more kind of the world. And in this, I

see, I'm going to a personality, that'salizathe he was a little too immortalized. Yes. And that's, yeah.

And it's maybe still moving with Katanegara. Yeah. So Katanegara did a lot of good things. Oh, for a one raja, but for a person,

but for a person, patih. Yeah. This is a bit more than my opinion, if I agree. Yeah. And there are

There's the that's about the the abatjapakia before already the seeds of the problems were there

miscellian locations inland, not on the coast for the, for the institutions not being built and that

that's maybe the way we're that institutions are important and have to be hormati and have the structure with

better. So, we have we have to beaughan the world that's a agricultural society. But, making longer trade, making penting,

and the trade patterns can shift. And if you have karegian in the country and they don't have had had been the North Coast

and the end uprofts and the end uptoe the part of there because Islam and the mark to get to that Yeah, you lose out. So, but you have put you say that.

Understand the changes in the world. Right. In the time 1340-an, it's been a sort of pandemic. The Black Death. The impact on it, it's the, kathompson, on 10 to 30% from population of the population of the world.

But, more than Asia Europe thereupac there's the way of the in the Jolla Pohet Wapahit that?

You're talking about Black Death Black Death? Yeah. I think there's a couple of things that happened a couple of times

Vaktu Roma Rome Empire too. India before to Rome for the same to the time of the Uyna

and Asia Tengara and that Buddhism and Hinduism that's time Sri Wijaya Roma Roma was down 476

Yeah Yeah And then Byzantin to 1553 Yeah Black Death 1340

1340 That's before I'm going to take-ta. Yeah. So, the Qaqaaten Europe, that's not. Lema. Yeah. So, for,

for India or China, can be be be able to and Indonesia, Nusantara, can't with it. But, but sometimes, the country

can't be with changes in the world, but don't just be penant just, I have to do with technology, with technology, with many other things as well. But, like that was also, and, like we did we also say, when japaned munchabahed, he was going to be able to be able to be iningal,

and in China, also, stability for the same time, it's not. And there are several times, they're tutupe. So, it's a case of the samepatan for Mujahahed, too, to be sure. So, kind of the same-catharant, sometimes, and majapahit, can't take the casepaten, but not make this a long empire. And when it was Ottoman also has been be able to beckxed.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But the Ottoman Empire and the Arab Empire

there were military empires, but also Arab-aubous. Ottoman-military. Yeah, yeah. The Ottoman-in-a-uh-huh. Scientificing is a good-out-out-out-ploid. Yeah, yeah. So, Arab was a busatatat.

Mm-hmm. Majapahit was a military empire and naval empire. That's the world of course. That's part of Malaga and looked at the shipal of the first time they said, Wadu. It's very big up. They're big upro-capability. They've got petal that's also

too much. It's not quite. Because, the amount of, there's not there. But they're naval power very, very much quite. So, but I'm not sure.

But why they, the Jaman Majapahit is not identical with the pursuit of science. Borobudur Salsed in the abat Kisement but after that Kjayaan Majapal

that is not nimbun with the penedipan technology, science, which can't be manifestation in construction that indah and the bestar.

Maybe we can't come back to Kareta Nagara. Vok to Krikanah, he, to Kubelega, they need to beaqa.

So, they need to dookongan from Kepalah, Buddha and Hindu. In 2009, there was an upcara, and he

gave tax-free status for their area, and they also can't make chand-a-sendip

And so. Cundits, Candaarra, or Candid from Nenek Mouinia that's still is still in Baja Ballylei, but there's also chandhi, the landiolayi, Makhya Vailaya Ska Pai, from Kediri, say, Surabaya, Malang, Blitar, that, chandinia, many a lot, there's, maybe a lotus-a-old. But, but, little, little. Kek, little, if there's one, if they're just, if that's one of course, it's been, like, according to Antwera.

And with that, maybe, you know, you also, to build something to build something big, but, yeah, actually, maybe there are a few different decisions that did, the, you know, like, the country, that's not too important. Not too. Or maybe to make sure you

between under the other under the other underpin'anut Hindu Yeah, I'm like that's just toonjolkan

Yeah Anguplah Hindu this is termarginalization Yeah So, has to

balance out So for Kata Naga as far politic is very important for he

and it and it means yeah he also got the support local

he can focus to geopolitics but maybe, yeah, yeah, yeah, with the technology, because if you can't make sure, because if you make something for yourself,

we want to make something that three-called more than parlor or from borough-budur. Now, it's, it's, people who have to invent something to make up challenge that, but that challenge wasn't there. So, yeah, for whatever reason, scientific revolution never happened. Gajamaada

in the Uyahuasian, yeah, a few years before Hayamuruk meningal, in 19, nata so, when Gajamada mingle,

tamarer, and more than more, and more than, there's perjoumian, since, or after Hayamuruk. Yeah.

Even if we can't Suhita not too much more than One minute that's about to get up to get a quater but he

At all the abet to 15 There are some There's a bit There's been interesting Zenghi Mm-hmm

Burtujun Diyun He did bantoo on Mahawan a person Muslim that's a lot of Jayaawa how much

how that majapahit So, right, after Gajmada Meningal, the really there's there tanda tanda

that, that's the at the, at the, at the ujum Kekwazahit like Brunei, Sumatra,

they've got the surat to China to get the support of Brunei to China. They said, we're we're just to kaiyipahit, every time. But we're ready for that to be it to beching. If Beijing, tell them to make mejapai, that we're, we're saying to bring

you to come. So they're, minta, they're making the support. Now, But it's not always has happened. Sumatir, Sumathe also, because in fact that, Beijing, maybe he's being homoermating. I said, well, it's, they're quite a lot of quite. So, when majabai, say, hey, don't, if there's a good job of diplomacy

with us. So they're okay. But two, thirty-year-old-old-old-conwedian, buta, and, he wasa he washington, so the other than the other thaneked by the

other than there are civil war pari gregg. And tibat-tibu, there are people people who aregian in there, maybe the people just not, I don't, I don't know, but actually, for China is very, how do you say,

that's very good for them. convenient. convenient. Before before he was before before he was just after Hayamur meningal, naval capabilities

from Majapahet is very quite but not far from then, Zeng He, from where he dapot he got naval capabilities?

is just he's just of them from and make flitn't. I, that's, I'm not pasty, I don't have but why, why, Tiber, China can make capal also be able to be able to be able to

get a lot of, yeah, the long as I heard. Some of the couple of Columbus. Right, right, very, so Majapahit, has been made the so maybe they're justure

immuneate it. And just the exactly. So the balance of power tibatiba shifts at the time 1380s still, still for Majapai, but 1405

it's been exactly and 10 years then 10 years and then 10thew Mahwan they'd come like that's uprolethapah. And that's about prima, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. And he's not going to Malaka. Yeah. And he's not

more than, right? Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Ormala. But actually, back Jamada that's about Jazeera that's about it's written, because it's not too just like there's a lot of people Malaka. So, maybe Malacca is there as a big time.

But, but in time that, in the abat to 15 now, yeah, Malacca munchal. China more quite. Majapahit will go and turn and the balance of power

shifts again. And again, Majapahed adapt, because they're up because they're not Paragreq, civil war actually there

Suhita as a queen there famine if I'm in the same 1818 yeah how can't be there famine in Indonesia but maybe there

some natural changes. the sunay brantas, spurting up. Not as leper again, navigations a little bit more than agricultural inland keragian in-dalen in-d-d-d-d-lame it.

Yeah, it's many that's... ...mendary to trade again, to use, to run-tas that's... Many problems start to emerge, absolutely. Systematist and systemic. decline

yeah and yet after the last after after the last and we've got and we've seen the Janiwaan or older religions

so, so, the partying the Buddhism also not much more again. Because if you look Candi Candi Diani Dian like

to make in DeKat Shaku, Chato, that's different. Theecahapit, in the valley, dekotkot or sugar or what. This is on the gungu. The way it's... How it's... So, so, it's pretty, there's perubhaha'amah also.

Now, so, we're not too, in this, I try to try to it's a lot of changes. But there seems to be a lot of changes. Yeah. And, which is called in here,

is the Candy Jago. Yeah. What that significance? Yeah. Candi Jago is, it is not far from Malang,

but significance it's, and can be able, it's symbol for Majapahit. And, who know, maybe for

Indonesia this this is really, this chandinia is very because this is chandhi, one a gama, but

two agamah. People buda can't get to people, Hindu, can't be there.

And chandin also look to gungung in the blackang in there's some sort of

animist sort of idea in the backgion so can be the

chandi that's very tolerant that's one that's one can

be done by the Agamah. It's a Kata Negearra he's goth in there,

di-in-a-in-a-i-in-a-i-i-hacket but it's a very special temple. Bagian Hindu, bagian Buddha and maybe also can be

even to be even a bit and that that's much the Mahjahit they have pedagal of

India, maybe Persia, China, Ambon, Maluku Malaysia, Thailand, and and Malaysia,

maybe that'suble, be able to live with tolerance. Tolerance, history, tolerance bahasa, yeah, tolerancy budaya, that was

a strength of Mahjapan. 1450, printing press. The machine catac, in Europe Melaka, and perforcy to Islam.

And then, proliferation in Jawa, and Jolla, Columbus, met himucked America 14992. At the end ofat

the 15, dimulah, demak, radiance, and everything, and, and, I can

as a lot of the casegapahit can't accelerate commundered majapahit yes can

be able to argumentation that the most the most structural for major that they're

not they're not making penesuai to make perkemangan technology perkeembang

buda ...geopolitic... geopolitic. Yeah. They're not yet. They're not... They're too stagnant, too... ...it's static.

...tid dynamic. Right? Padahal, when Zenghi back to Tionk, that dynasty Ming should have been mutusk to beutusk... Mm-hmm.

Yeah, right? ...sebetuln't... ...is an opportuneat in time. There was... To makea paa, yeah, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

...to makeaqapeight, yeah. Yeah. ...toeat, not in one situation to think... ...sebagoe. Yeah, as a plowang,

yeah, because, because it's not too hard, internal divisions are very divisive, it's a certain weakness, and also they're also to look at the world.

in the world, Portugal, Malakia. Melaka munchol. Trade flows will be re-rubhap. But they're not and, actually, he'llang to the sametang

and then, and actually, yeah, if you're not with, per-rubhawahing in trade, per-economy's too quite and everything's got to fall apart.

They're making the men's-law. But, actually, it's been pen-nought, and playing, like, in sepac-bola, we have a pemmine in lapang, but people who are-dud who-tut-maint. They're like that.

What's just-you-it-a-oh. What's-you-a-you-lid-a-a-a-a-a-a-and not but he got a lot of the he's got to get to get to make, and he thinks, I have to make this, this, and to be able to

that. So, position she's very much berubal. This is really if I read Bucca. Assuming it's

representative, truly, yeah, from where where the to make surewerewaijah, in the time inaudhuisia, in the time 1527, Mahjah Pahit is divide and conquer, DVD empire. Yeah. Indonesia, I've got to have

a country, it's not only a lot of culture, many culture, many ways, many buddhaia. It's a lot of can't, but it also can

make a little can't, if it's not disatucked. Vaktu, if there, there two, three people in

some campu, They're Arbentem. After you have to have to revert. He's got tory, I'm sorry to say. You're trying to say, you're trying to say. You're a neutral sort of judge. He said, okay,

you're doing this, you're doing this, the two-doin can be taken, okay. Munkimukin, that's also there's a lot of people of Sriwai

I'm and there's a newro party which is called as a referee Shilanderer I don't know but maybe maybe in Majapahil

also very much focus to that and that's the lemation and that's also the time between

some of some of Indonesia Belanda back back a neutral agent that can use the visions to makeuasion's-hmm.

I'm looking, maybe, this is maybe not speculation, but a hypothesis, that's embuffing mageapahit, that's rentan, with externalities to be porak,

porand-dakaan, in divide-and-conquer, or DVD-A-A-A-A-Pera. One, that's the power of the mainpahed. Yeah, right? Yeah, right? Yes.

The two, maybe chastra-a-traught. Yeah. That's currant redistribusy. Yes. Maybe the sechartra just, but in this

not. So, it's it's just. And then, and then, cognation. If the the capacity

cerebral, yeah, the, but the same here is there. But, the same, it's not. It's a bit. And,

To dombaumbakan. And can't be able to use. Yeah. So if the peoplemipiniae, if all of the people aresteading sechartra, if alluregian per cognizy,

the possibility of anyone upon diadudbacan is more than because you have because to adaptation to

the perubbation that in the the the way of the they're the way of the they're notatism to look at a lot of focus to

talk to be in politics and other people, and they're there perubhan if you have a

cognition and you can't and much and much and the institutions mm-hmm you can't makeirkan

what you can't and how the country this or willia this or quota this has to be competitive,

like the personatee. if they'reuble, if you'reuble, yeah, it's about the same with kerajaan. If you're not changing with permitting that, or demand that or technology that, now we can see

that it's, uh, the company mobile in Europe, but, too, but, tibatting, you know, electric vehicles, because because because of the

because of the curtailing. Because of the vehicleingingia, again, it's justaum, they're not or not to believe, or not believe, that they're looking, it's right, and not be anticipation. And that's, sometimes, because organization

that they've got, not gives information, not dibunded with right. And, and, and, And for the other people in Europe, maybe in the Urable, that's just as it's the same again Kerajaan or in the Uggara.

We need information, cognizant, and have to see what kind of challenges does that give us? I, I, say, I'm going to be able to. But I'm not eveningame, if you in context of and in the unthinkaqaqaan

and in context but if you're inaqaan it's in context ethnicity religious okay yes and I can be able to be

that it's a bit of because if it's because if if it's not because if bad idea idea like I and I'm

she's like maybe not maybe not maybe not maybe not I'm notar, like I'm in Indonesia like that's about, like the way the way the way of the same. I can't take it and

and make-gunagan it in book I. Saling-mingsing. To be it to the penitiguinging redistribusy things positive. Yes. Yeah, right?

Yes. So, so can't, it can't whatever, color, color, ethnicity, agam, and, but it's,

has been It's not be madefatechreducibly. To be used to beaitherto indelioral, the way moral, milioling, kesehatan, kestraan.

But if public goods this is not ter redistribusory as far as biggisanship and just about people who can't beaqan that can't beaqan it

can't beaq impotent. Yes, because the the talents, the commons, the you can't get, if I'm going to say, if I didn't hear what my sister's saying, I don't know to know how they're going to give it. So, if I didn't, not give us a chance to

come up to happen to come up, to make or to say something or or to be a penulis or what? Because institution yet did not have, the backat their cannot come to come true. And that's, I'm going to beharap that's really one

opportunity for Indonesia. Because in Indonesia, I used to domestic helper people in Hong Kong. He's very pinter. He lay He was in Kono He was in Kroo

He was like he was But I look at he's smart, Ceredas Chara omonging We can't He gives him To work

And he Back to Jawa To make business his Andropinuerl Now that's good So that

He from He had from He had Kusempatan to bea and to bea school, maybe he has to beauched what he'll do. Cuma, it's the same thing he lay

in, in gung and there's school or school not so much, or the school not so much to make the backathe's to, to make the life and it's bad,

but, after it's, but he's still still can't even, and he's kind of bridal business in Tengha Jawa. Yeah, very, very nice.

And that in Indonesia but it's just we have I'm sure that talenta universal. But but the power not universal? Right. So,

so the task institution or the people to universalization can the plan. The job of the leadership is to universalize

talents and opportunities. Yes. Now, Tyeongk is quite I'm homogeneous. but they're notherty-hmm.

But, but they're make-all-haw-all that are purporting, or manifestation of the interbukhawn, and melacquake-upon to redistribusy chastraan, cesehatan,

cognizy, score science of the Hongk. Tengue still now. Even for non-teriori for the kids 18 years

people, they're number 1 or number 2 in the world so. So, it's back to the jama japan Mahjapahit

mrs. Mugin'it timpangang it's tingi. Co-efficient ratio's the same.

Munkin-sacion cogniziness tingy. Mugin-it-you. Mugin-saja other episode or a where the sameinghamimpsychingia.

I'm nother. But if the epimipininan leman leman, institution's quite that's redistribusory cheshappartan, and cognizis, like it's more sulid in adudobah. Yes.

But that, they never put in place. Yeah. Yes. And, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, the end up, and, actually, that's the lemahanna, majapahit. And you're right, actually, in other country, Vietnam. Oh, Vietnam also, in the field education, is doing very, very good. Wow, bizarre.

Luar-biasa. Vietnam, it's, in town 75, they're just set up. Yeah. We've got to nalem paddy and coffee. Now Vietnam, to producean coffee the bestor number two in the world. But they're also making handphone. Handphone and mobile electric.

And they score pizance, that's for efficiency lingual and stamp, is number two in Asia, the number 13 in the world. We're still number 6.9. Yeah. I know, they're general score of the same with America-a-art.

It's a lot of the United States. The United States is a good-a-patientia really bad. And, now, we're also look at Asia. There's a perubhan. Misalya, trade flows from China,

people who moved to Asia-Tengara and to India. And Indonesia, like Majapai, do you, have looked at it. How much the opportunity to

come from now, Indonesia because we need to because of the that's used to make of the electric vehicles, much and much and so. But, only it's not, it's just, it's not, matter, metal, and that's not, we're in the... But it's not only can't you can't get to runy-nigh. If we're not going to be there.

And cognizabeth, too, has been able to be able to literacy. Yeah. Bucum Majepaite this, in halamon-partum, it's my son, David Premuja, that's my son-sia. Umunuchy, two, three.

But, but, I've got to be for me, but for the uponakan because I'm about it's about it's about it's about it's about it. And I'm going to hear about it. I'm going to talk about it. Because he said, I'm actually back,

but he's back on social media. And social media, there's untinger, but many of the storytang that's very much. We're kind of learn with cognitive capabilities to concentrate, to make up to make up to make sure what's about. To make sure we're saying,

we're doing some hypothesis. We don't know it's true or not. What's the badgerpahed, bener, to murdering the United States. We're actually, the fact of it, but we do critical thinking.

What he does critical thinking? With that, with the Jazeera, I'm being, and critical thinking. And critical thinking, apalagy, the time that's very important.

Because in social media, I see, many people people are just. And that, it's bohung. Some weeks last,

there's something that's done in English, there one oneita, the pucous of the guy, Lacky, tibutelytive media,

did not even though it's wrong. But before, it's already, people, in jala, mara, protest, much, like, so social media there's a good thing, but also, there's danger.

And we have to learn to, bach, social media, and think that's, right or not? And I'm not as I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be able to... So we can't talk about this. Because I've been talking about this. Even I've seen content that good,

many in social media. But the jeleck, Jail more than we can't be able to control, melter, and curation for generation muddha, which is the better better than there's the other than what? And there's overprotectsies toadap activity offline, but underprotection

to redactivity, and this is notheraping up recorrelation with what, what, which I'd be called as degradationistual. Mm-hmm. There's many so many depresi. There's many exactly anxiety. Back in many countries, Buna, because they're polarisasies

with what they're looking at. And, the men, men, young young muda, too, is important, so much to how they're making re-investigation axiom,

or reinvestigation pre-existing truth. Yeah, right? We, yeah, like, we're looking in-a-the-many-a-a-a-a-oh, this, but not

want to re-reinvestigate, that's right? That's right. To ask, that's right. And it's very important because it can't be resuscut, between people, andara,

and other country, and other the, uh, uh, it can't can't un-hcured something that's

very, now, I'm still be hormati. Harold, I'm borgue hyperhipotasah. Begit Machia pahit, it's

diaddubacan. Because it's not there's redistribusy chastraan. Not teradiness redistribusy cognizant.

Tididididididididid redistribusy the plume. And that almost same with the situation global now.

We've seen there four phenomena. One, phenomena inequality of income. Two, The two, the equality of opportunities. And the fourth, centripetality of economic development,

where the puttumbuance per-orang in the quota premier, it's more than the more than the puttuburned bycounter or in the area. Talenta, larry, to theota, from the area. And, what's very paradoxal is, sumber-daya-alam, It's aera, but it's right now.

but it'srap for the main. Cobrae, if I was going to see, Indonesia. When I'm going to say, 80% of all the world in Indonesia are in Jakarta. So, that, Jakarta, the city, and all of Indonesia, yeah,

to say, how do you're in the economy that? far as far as far as far as far as far as the Jakarta. For redistribution we need infrastructure. Infrastructure tangible, jalan, be it's in Jawa, Tengar, or not a case of the work, infrastructure intangible.

Education, that has to school or guru, has to training, in Vietnam again, because because they're training good-bri-bishop. Lo-biasa. And then,

gaiji guru also luar-biasa. So, people want to be a guru, and there bonus if they're their murid that in the test national also,

score-nian, long-y-basket. So, they're been minate to make education that good. So you need to build that

infrastructure. And that's worth but if you have to build up, yeah, I said that's just like Majapahit, nanti, the, the,

we don't take, we're doing or some bad in the and we're doing and we're being penit. Yes.

I was always say that, it's always, I'm saying, the paradaban, apapult, anywhere, that'spun.

It's about even if you can't make sure if they're not commination with the power of innovation. This is just if they can't make sure they can't

get ridgown, they're not able to combinacation the quatting preservation with the power of innovation. I'm looking Majapahit, this

identical exactly with how they not-huturebuck to bea-mul-meloop-a-coot-innovation. And they, this is a hypothesis, like it's not-per-resil redistribusory public goods that's important for

people, and in factored, social-an, intellect, whatever. So, so it's much it's hard-died-dobah. And I'm looking Indonesia to the front,

or the country-manap-pun-upon, or the Udhaven, they're up to be able tobakan, if they're not put upanishis in a lot of reshattan and chastra-an, secreightra-an, I think that's

not just a hypothesis because Maja pahit when there's there's a problem, pasty they're just look, if tibat,

demac muncho. This can be anch- But, but, the reaction they're not. I mean,

the reaction. So I don't know what. But they're not. Soap, for, to, for me, to, for reaction. And that's, for them. But, yeah, there's a,

there's a time for demack when that. And, that's, for every country, one lesson, set up a person, set up people,

set up country. I, from Belanda, the country we, we don't have resources same so we need,

for technology, agriculture, what we can't as a new, we're quite in the world, every country has been comparative advantage that's,

that has been built up. I'm actually, I'm going to ask you about raffles, but the, but, the bestasance of time.

I want to ask you about that's and war denar. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is right. This is right.

So, um, Raffles. So, we're still in 2018-15-an. So, English uh,

and Raffles so, governor in Jawa. He, he's going to the charitania. What is? Yeah,

they're beingung. So, actually, he came to Rulan to Surabaya, to Malang, that,

and look chandini, but he did not sadar what he has to know so he wants people who they're to look at the

the way of the way now it's so that's a wardenar he in in the Semarang very pinto and he

he madejapai with some of the other for this kore this this is here there's a lot And he made one peta. He brought pet that

to Bogor, because Refuss the same, because Refos and gave it to look with Refos. Maybe Refuss beharap that they've got, like, Anguat, a certain

society, who's not so, but maybe he is a little bit to bechew, this, not being this big, this, not being this big, this.

The same, maybe he only look at the but it's like Jakarta Jakarta just because Jakarta bagu'uas Yeah exactly So maybe keratonea

not too but many people did get in the out of it and that's not not even to make hitungation the end up petaned get to koppor and

he'llang but in but in 2008 there one So, Peter Carey, he with Amrit, they've got thought, if they're in front of Peta this, there, come from, come from,

Bres, maybe they're going to be brought to Singapore or to come-money. Maybe in British Museum. Now, Peter Carey, he's trying in British Museum, and he, he knows he has to try to where. the the pata'a so,

t'batepacit so, t'pacit again. Actually, the bookucus that's written by

Prapanga, also did, too, too, so, tibba, we have

chan-a- country, Gata-Gamah, we know what what is there pettar-in-a-a-gat-gah-a-gat. M'u-cunds. Mach-pah-a-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-h-hut.

we're tibati, that's about time, that's about about how you said, start to research Majap Haid again. So now, that led to my book. Now we have a bit of an understanding of Mahjabai'iq. But that's a really interesting story. I'm not as penting what

for the kids'ad of the people, to even, to beckon-to-wark-to-to-beck, to learn about about about this I'm going to share. I'm going to hear of the people who's very much and with this,

I've been saying with a person who's I'm having, I'm going to be like a gate opener that they're backer and think, why I'm going to look see chandinia

or why I'm going to this? Why I'm not set up what he's called? So they're like to tariff. And it's important for the first thing. One, to make sure that's Indonesia from where that?

Because at the first I said, for me to maintain this, there are people, the language, macanay, but also the story. And that, I think, the intinia, maybe in Majapait. So, so, maybe for people to make identity,

his own, it's also, from the second. I'm the other than because of the other thanakumannation such backchance. Beyr it's like, they're going to make it.

So I'm trying to make the story this very much it's very much my wife, when I started when I started to listen hisri I said actually in school

before, I'm bosan. Because I have have halfal tangal tangal, nama Nama raja, the time of the same islepahed so,

don't know, I'll say, I'm making a story like people who are you not going to be able to. They're like Netflix series. Bucan, this is a lot, this is reset, but also did tellis

with a way, with a lot, it's not, it's just, I'm being people, I'm going, I can, I can't buy this,

I can't, I'm going to, this, so, Maybe I'm about me bacha something else. If I'm going to be able to ask you, and I'm trying to give you a perspective. And, I've got to show you can skepticism.

This is coming with the pussainabu Kaldun, that if we can't, if we can't beaccharah, that we're not askeptu. Absolutely. Because there is bias. but but but buting buthurti but we're just

but we're just even using using kognizeked yeah right we're talking about we've got because it's the story bubate because

they're not they're used in a lot sometimes maybe dejolkin a little maybe even but that

but that that's conclusive that is patis mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm,

from the other a raja. Oh, yes. Yeah, right? Although, there's documentation from Jaman Maja Pajaran, it's just

it's just be conjecture that Oh, yeah, that's gotcha Mada that out of batas.

I think there a little bukti, because, after she'll, they're not they're not yet, but with a lot of people.

Because they're also because they're too, they're too, they're too, so they think maybe we'll pick up to people, be able to be it, and we can't even

be able to make them. Aftering, we're. Finally, it's also solution that not too efficient, but it's that Gajamada

they're quite. that's like that's too quite. Yeah, that's why he went over his limits. Because there's not any institutional

building. Yes. Yeah, right? That we spakati. Now, if I think

the number of book who has been that's long this that's not more than 150

we're, we can do this experiment. If we're If you know what's in Indonesia, the same thing in Indonesia,

and just 150 million, Baca one booku just Masing, Selessa. And, and it's so much Gampangue, to make,

the writing that this long this this is, now, you've been to present, what, what is the tip

can be to tell you, to the if they, if they, if they're, to muleus, what they have

fortimore? to think about I'm not quite the first if I'm going to we're going to we can't boughamash one but if I can't use it in one

paragraph or halamand that means I'm know because to sharpen your mind the there's a little better than the so if you know,

or whatever you know, and you want, and you want, really, and you'll even, try, you to put it in the cartas.

For sharpening the mind, very good. But for I, the writing, it's also seny. I actually, as a tullis, I don't think I'm so much because,

because I, I'm 3. But I'm a lot. I'm a day of the week. Wow, I can't dolea. And I have to move back. Has to be able to read something. Oh, this.

Comeary, I think. It's like, like, this. So, has been changed. It's a job. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. So, maybe there are people who, for me, but I'm not going to.

But if there, if there are people who said, I also I also you also you also look I'm going to I'm going to

I'm going to because because if you're people who know refus so I'm muling with the bookuinary

with if people who people in the world people in the world I'm like what I'm

I'm I'm you know you need you know there's there intrigue or betrayal

when if if you're one bab, like James Bond movie. James Bond movie, with James Bond, with James Bond, to do you,

but the storytani, you know, sometimes with novel or what, we have a technique this, drama, we're taking

the booker, and, and it's always the storytani. And, sometimes, it's been a little

again. Bihar there's a narrative. That is very nice. For me, it's a me, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

meeked up. I mean, yeah, I need a lot of, there's a lot of, they're just, they're just, they're just, yeah, for me, I'm going to be able to but, for me, for me, there's no matter.

If I take three years to write a book, it's okay, because I enjoy. Tip, the most the most endashar, that you're saying, you're just, you'd, doodook just, you're, mullies.

Yes, but I want, yeah, yeah. So, that's the tip, by one my friend's the I'm sorry by the book I'm going to I'm going to use maybe I'm going to say he's about you know if you're going to listen

something doodugla and to use and he's right sometimes if we're sometimes if we're doing but don't know how how much

to use what because from that from that sharpen your mind muncunner structuring Sometimes, sometimes if I'm out of one bab, I don't have one bab.

I tell you. I want to tell us in the way, the way, boughamara, Mast, how much. I'm going to say, I'm going to do with it. Muley, maybe we're going to this, this, this, this is. This is, this is. That's after that's about it's about it's about it's about it's about it's but we're using the book you're going to look to look to look at structure that's going to be told you're going to

but, uh, that's an art that can sharpen your mind and bring up the structure. So, uh, yeah, I'm going to man. This is maybe a bit speculative. But I'm a couple of, about about about about about

about about about around around about 75,000 years ago there's ever the erupsy that's

in Indonesia in Indonesia, in Tobah which which, which, where population of the

people, because it's dachat I'm I'm still be speculation, but I'm about that's about Bhopa it,

it's be called as a reset to have humanity and even speculative, yeah, make catalysation revolution cognitive

because who survived that they're in Gumpet that has to make sure to make survival Maybe Maybe even though

After the time after that Mutasia, more than you Revolution Coctuary. Survival of the fittest Survival of people who can look

Hey, tibba agriculture not there Chautioner never Chowcannes can't change, climate yeah, wadu, I have to

get in gung or tingal or what I'm so so I'm been been but why not even before the vitus we've been, we've been, we've been people,

for ushound, for the country, we have to see what comparative advantage our and how can we use that is a survival of the fittest sort of thing beenckon, for the thing. Be'nananed, as a behind behind the other than. Yeah, I'll take a little bit.

Leparie, when I'm going to be able to be able to be it. He's not something mustachy. He's not mungkiri. He's never, but he'spat but still,

but never, I'm going to read it up, and then I'll get up and then I'll talk to it again. Amen. There's a person I think, I think,

sometimes, Indonesia is but in the other people, people, we're kind of know this country, we're,

I'm going we're, but I'm not a person but Indonesia, but Indonesia Indonesia needs people who can be representative or

but, but can give the storytany with the book Jakarta I'm justudson, because because I'm notherstaking in Indonesia

I'm about why I'm ajarat, I'm saying, I'ma'i, I'ma'i, I'ma'i. I don't like, but they're not looking Indonesia like I'm going to see in Pasar Mingu. So, this is really a country india, people who areama, buddhappiness is very unique. There's not many

in the world in the the number of theop inundasiness of the number. In the world I'm sure you know, we're trying to be. A loterances in Europe, it's going to be able to be known. So, really Indonesia, Indonesia, Indonesia, Indonesia, I'm going to be able to be able to be able to be able tolerancey. And sometimes, I'm trying to say to the Belanda, the Belaida, that's about what I'm about in America, it's about, but we're going to beigrant and agamahs that's up, but we have adaptation and look Indonesia, Indonesia

can't be able to begetteut people and budaia. So, Indonesia actually has a lot over to the world, but the world doesn't know that yet. Amen. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. And so that's Harold van der Leen, a

person who's a person who's and Indonesianis. Thank you.