Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Indra Lesmana: Bagaimana Musik Mengajarkan Kita tentang Hidup

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Endgame mengunjungi Indra Lesmana Space di Bali untuk berbincang dengan sang adimusikus, Indra Lesmana. Selama hampir dua jam, Gita dan Indra mengupas filosofi hidup, bermusik, dan berseni Indra Lesmana — serta apa yang bisa kita petik darinya. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #IndraLesmana  ----------- Gabung Langganan Channel Endgame agar kami dapat terus memberikan konten yang berkualitas: https://sgpp.me/becomemember ----------- Jelajahi dan diskusikan lebih lanjut episode ini di https://endgame.id/ ----------- Untuk ajakan kolaborasi dan kerja sama, hubungi kami di sini: https://sgpp.me/contactus

This is one of your great songs. Wow. Are you used to play that song? Sama Ari Aionir. Really? Dool-old. That's our, really? Yeah.

No, really. Enact very. Addo. My favorite things, yeah? E minor, la. Hello, my time. Indra Lesmana, a person-man and musis

legendary from Indonesia. Indra, thank you atas Wattucus. Sama, same, I'm thank you. We've been very been being being a long-a-dugue under some of

decades. Maybe what's to be to be told by us our under the Mooda, that is your formative years.

You're formative years. You, at all the Uculele, playing guitar, play drum, then, and then,

pivot to piano. Now, that's philosophic that's been about people in around you, where you're

about, how, that's, how, so, wow. I'm, I'm, big-back in the

family music, which, which, where, um, um, and

in the room, um, um, it's, um, first, there's, there's a

open house for 24 hours for 24 hours, for music, at any time, to rehearse, to jam. So, I'm,

I'm, I'm being being in the room that the musicians that's by my dad's my dad

to learn and jamming in the room. So, from the small in the room, they're doing

it, they're jamming, to be born at two morning, because there music guitar,

there music, there's happening every single day in the house at the

time. And then as I grew up, of course, because in the back room

at the studio, I would try every instrument that's that's there, playing the drums, playing the guitar, apapot, what's that's there. Before I know it, I was deeply interested in everything about

music, so, listening to all kinds of music, because my my dad's not strictly into jazz, it was open-minded to all kinds of music. So, we're doing in some of different

music. So at that same time, my mom also sings, she writes lyrics, so when

I'm going to take, learn, learn, to make, make a music, the first time was

she said to me, let me write the lyrics for this song. So, the song so, the year I,

I was nine time, I've been the song judulnered and then my mom wrote

the lyrics for it. And ever since it, my sister, Mira, Blajaro, she was into Oregon, and I still know by in all the music that. I never really was interested in the organ. There's piano in there. But one day, I was interested with the organ, not because of the the organ itself, but of the technology. There's a drum machine, and there So I was trying that out, and so I was playing along.

And then suddenly I was able to play a tune that I picked up somewhere that's been puttart by my dad's say, you can actually learn the piano now. And then, that's that it too, I started to learn the piano. And then never ever moved to any other instruments. I think that's more

more than in making making profusiness I think they I think they

they're but my dad that because because because he's also so

he was actually I was learning I think it's not something that he was deliberately teaching me, but he was showing me how. I was interested. I was interested. I was tertaric and I always had at his side.

So, I have played guitar, I would sit down to the side of him. Gereatin, he would say to me, why don't you go to the piano and play this chord. And then he will show me, because he also can play piano. So, yeah, musically, I think he was much more involved with me every day. Mom,

he's who's always subpooh to how much the way to be able to be a good. So he's more, I'm more, you know, get into my education, you know, waking up in the morning to go to school, be nip, nip, nip, but because my mind was all music, so, going home to, from school, past I'm just going to know what he's doing and be sitting in the studio, he will be mixing, and then I would do, be sitting next to me. by the

or people or it's very democratic? It's democratic. Juster the other. Juster the other than,

I was, my dad, it's not never said to me to strictly, you gotta learn this or you

can learn that, never. Not perna, because I, I'm the one the family

and my sister and my older brothers that they're not really into jazz, so there who's who rock, there who's who disco, there who more than more pop music. So I was influenced by my older sister and brother, too.

And my dad never said, do not listen to that, because I was actually picking up different things together at the same time. But it was actually, I'm, I'm I'm, I when I was a little

quite, I'm too, I'm too, and too people, so if, if were like, rame,

I'm more, I'm more than dendire with one or two people who tried to learn from them.

The most the most that was with al-marsh Benilikumahua, because he was actually living there. And all my

father's friends I'm just really nip in the room. Al-marhum Bibi Chen, then al-mahum Bidicam. Those are my favorite musicians. They always make jokes. And they never really intimidate I like what.

Because I always try to encourage me to play with them. But I was hesitate, They, they're, they're not-untank, on the kid like Jack Les Manna, then I have to have the privilege to play with them. But they're not like,

they're always like, they're always like, they're like, see what he's playing, and that's the privilege I got, I got, which, I,

think that you don't really get from school. You know, Jackless Manas school. But it's not really a school. But it's not really a school. formal school. It's actually a community that's been made up the, the, the, the,

the, the, the, the, the, the, the people that had, uh, knowledge that at that time there is no music school at all. And we, and information, you got to be so my dad has a lot of piringan hitam. So, umbub bichan, so umbub bichan, It's very coming from Surabaya just to record my dad's pilingan

hitam. That's... That if you take out variability, that's the way, that's only, you're tumbled with ecosystem that's very with the key with the kaian or instinct creative that's greatest. Would you have been able to turn out the way you have?

Maybe the more fundamental is your instinct creative you're, instinct creative you're like in nurture, the pupuk by, tenttunuch,

but also ecosystem that there. But, and if I'm pertain, I think, it's more, not memaksa for you

want to be really, but just true, be reaction to be a curiosity you, right? Yes.

Yes. So it's, it's, it's it's even if you can't the motivativeness or motivation is internal, not external. True. Yeah, can? Very true. Now, would you argue,

that's why variable ecosystem that's like that, if it's out of equation, with beckle, motivation, you have, turned out the way you have? Yeah, I think that's a good point.

Like, yeah? I think it takes a lot of part in me, what happened to me in those years. Wellupon, it's been only for four to five years. Because, we moved to Australia. Then I had a different kind of life. Although, ternata, life in Australia that

That's also what I've Alamed with the people who had my own my own people. At school, I was more, more creative. In school, I was more to be more to be

being made of doing my own music in school. And, and, and, that, it was a one that was a thing very important of how we as students at the conservatorium that is how we actually create music,

not just learning how to play what's written, but how to create music. And that's the experience that I got from my before we, when we came back, it's very big. So yes, it's... So, so what is what,

can be able to be music? Reading music, The answer is really to help to learn faster. Because we, first, the analysis of the campus, we're, one of the study is to analyze. So, we can open the score of Mozart,

and then we analyze his writing, What's what he's doing in the what he's doing in this. To be able to read music, of course, it'll help to be able to read music, of course, it'll help to be able to, oh, it's harmony in this. Knowing how to read music, knowing how to side read music is a different thing.

Side read music, you can actually put whatever music in the front of our eyes, that we can play straight away. That's just amazing. That's another knowledge. But yes, I think how to be able to read music is very important to be able to read music to be able to read music.

Also, if we're going to make arrangements, have a time for a lothine, reading music is very convenient. I, I'm thinking in Indonesia many, many musicians who are very who's a position that's very but they're

not have a to have a to make make music. And I'm

that it's maybe kind of not only that it's about but it's about how they

can internationalizationization with with the community international that's it's too

with bacaan not baloch. So if they're going to be collaboration, like it's if there medium

that's more, it's more than communication and be collaborative Right. I'm reading music is actually

music we know, we all is a universal language but by being able to read music that it will be very,

very to make-quate the ability to to be communicating with musicians from any from any jazz musicians

actually, we have one which is we do jam session. We play the same jazz standards. We're going on

jazz standard in Indonesia and just stands in America, in Australia, it's the same. It's the same chord progression, the same notation. But, there are things, where we want to create music with them,

and we need to write stuff. And that's what, that's it can help if we can be able to write note balog. I'm not know if, if in jazz, it's important, Apalagy if you want to be in the big band, the classic also

if you want to be in the orchestra, if you don't read music, then you cannot be in the orchestra. But there are singer-songwriters. They don't actually know how to read music. Not know how to play court what, but they can actually write great songs.

And then we can't is that, is that, is that, bolley or not, I think, yeah. Because I, I,

I've seen about about many people that are really good in writing

lyrics, singer-songwriter. They use their instrument and write songs to

make There's not going to be the lyric laguna. And they don't know how to read music. There are many of that. So it depends on, it's back again, it depends how you want to use your skill in music for, what you can't.

What you can't can't to the next or generation of the next who's who anguplas have

aspiration to be music for their to be able to sure and in

international right that there is there there and what other

because if I'm because if I'm there's so that maybe can

make internationalization like you. And there some other but there's like it like it in

the country so much. It's not the way. Logically the lot of the waytani is more much.

I can be able to what I'm what I'm that I'm because I think I'm there's

there many sure there's butulner but that I am that I

have made that that's what I'm making, or, to make, uh, berkariate to still, uh,

is actually, this is the tips from my dad's my that I was, first is, if you made a, you have to play with better musician. That's,

that's my, that's always, that's always, Indrai, you have to mind with what more better than you. So you in, how you, and look for it, find them.

So my dad always taught me to hause it to play with better musicians. The second is, you must be able to be able to ask. So if there is a better musician, don't die just, you go to them and ask, whatever. the most it's if they're like if he's not want to mowong

with you probably you're but if you're but if you're luck that's your luck so those two things

I'm application in Australia to anyone to go to Diziglaspi or that

C.C. Korea I'm saying excuse me at least there moment where I I'll ask.

And I'll ask. And it's very much. It's, it turned up, actually, they're a musician, and actually they're talking about, and we speak the same language in music. So, so, two things,

which I'm the most important. That's the same thing, which, which is still trying to try tolarking to Generations Muda. Like, uh, here,

one of one music music Muda who's to come to this, he's what, 11. It's a very talented

guitar player. He's going to Jakarta to meet one of the greatest guitar player in the world. And said,

go to him and ask questions. It's your chance because this this this, this is, you're going to be there's

that's another that's because I think I'm music musicians to

they love to talk about music so there's no way they're not if they're if they're maybe if they're

maybe maybe they're malice but if you ask about music and you know the questions are deep about music they would talk That's

There's not There's a episode Where music that I think you're more than you

approach Pursuantam PURG PINU Kainna Yeah I've been Yeah

Yeah Yeah But I'm Yeah But I'm Yeah But I'm Maybe

Because because He was Because with me with but maybe he maybe he's maybe

like he was one of my biggest heroes at that he was tired because I came to him and he doesn't want to talk to me

but the moral of the story don't give up don't give up exactly and I you know and I And I'm not

be there's respect their their their their probably need

privacy but I don't give up I just go to them and I think

one one of I think I see from many music in Indonesia must hesitate there

maloom maybe it's culture I don't know that that's what I don't know no no

no no I'm not so I'm always I'm going to be present in context many things, maybe in the world music or or something, that's only the people are

being dunging, and can be narrasica narrations in context international and if in Asia that, that's that is that

is, people who are being dunging to, and they're, and they're not, not asmaata only can be don't knowing about India. But they can

be don'tonging about anything or topic of whatever. Or topic of whatever. That's the part of culture we're? Maybe they're from little to be argumentation or make expressioning.

And they're also beacally with the language international. Namanning, the language. That's maybe that can't make sure. Right.

Yeah. Like, yeah. I don't feel like that. In Bali, the people, many people Indonesia

who are more percied-diri to be communicating to be communicates to be interesting. Yeah.

Maybe language they're more more thany to be communication. So, that's the first I see,

when I came to Bali, it seems that even, even the we're restaurant, like

the waiter and the waitresses that's like more to be able to communicate with the tourists. But that's maybe because of the people, because of the because, because, because too. There's a lot of interaction

that's a lot of, yeah. ...merupaccon, it's every day, right? Exactly. That. Yep. But, maybe if music, music we're, it's, it

is to beckali with literacy to beaccae music, bebeckle with literation to beccanation in international, so that's about. I'm gonna'embaughan, yeah, the people in Indonesia,

who's like Zubin Mehta, memminton New Yorkville harmonic. Yeah, right? Yeah, can? Nukes, shoo-sukeruner, Joey, in nominacy. But if, if with population 280 jute, musty nominies,

it's every time there. Yeah. Yeah, right? Representation soft power our, in context that music, it's musty have proportional. Minimum, proportional

with population. And, and, tellin, de, when in the Conservatorium, Sydney. You're interact with many

very important, music class, the world. What's what what you're in what you to

make an album for the for go international? Yeah. Um, the when I was in,

uh, I'm in, um, I'm doing my daily routine is school and school. I'm also, I'm also,

he's playing in a different places in Sydney, and I was his piano player. And that's one day, and that gave me a chance to be interaction with new listeners and also new musicians. And in that, I finally,

I had a chance to get him to meet a few people who have vision of music that's same, but I was in group band. And I was 15 at that time. I started to make group, the name of group of Nebula. And then that group helped me to

like there some of there's a wadah for I know to write and

it's I didn't I really really I didn't say shia-sia I

spent all my time writing new music for this particular band until

we had enough originals that can be we recorded

a demo I should call it a demo because we didn't we just went in the studio and recorded our music after so we just went in the studio and recorded our music. We thought, hey, this we could

we can't get up final, so, you know, we can give it away to people, and so we can actually start to market our band. And I, I'm, I'm, I'm putting in America, in Los Angeles, I sent the record to him and said,

hey, Maas, this is my band. You know, I hope you like it. And then he said, you know what? I'm going to give this to radio the Los Angeles. Who knows? I still remember the name of the radio is KKGO. So he sent that record to KKGO and saying that there's this nebula

with the song that's the album and then suddenly in about two weeks

it became number one in that radio child blew everybody away I was like I'm in India

I'm really I did I'm zebra records zebra records exactly so that's

how it happened so that's how it happened early 80s yes Yeah. 8.1 or 8.

And then, because it's number one in KKGO. This is before Zibra, actually. Did hear by Ricky Schelds,

Zibra Records. And then he called KKGO, who's that? And then KKGio said, I got it from this Indonesian guy. And then

gave the number and called my brother and said, I want to meet this guy. And then my

brother said, hey, come to America, somebody wants to sign you. So that's how it is. That's how it happened. So I went to Los Angeles and signed with Zibri Records. And recorded the next album, which was... No Standing. No Standing.

And then for Earth and Heaven. Worth and Heaven is like my peak of my... Yeah. You know, a hell of an album. Yeah, playing with Charlie Hayden, with Mini Kalayuta. I used to play some of it. of your songs.

Really? Let's play. You should play with better play. That's the pesadne and that's the other way around for you. Yes. Okay, I agree. Just kidding.

Then how? Ketmue, I'm going to be nervous. I was nervous. I was very nervous. Because Ricky, when I got there, I signed the contract with Ricky, and then Ricky asked me, okay, for your next album, can you write some more music? I said, yes, of course.

Okay, why don't you go back? They belong to Sydney. And I'll see you in a couple of months. Can you come up with some songs? I said, sure. And so I went back, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less, no less. and I think I came up with 15 or 20's tunes, and then I told him that I was ready to come back.

So we came back to the States. He belongs to my... You know, I'm going to put you with this producer. His name is Martin Lund. Both of you just sit down on the piano and work out Laguna and try to talk and took the album. So I will play in front of him, this one tune, second tune, third tune.

And he said, no, that's great for the album. Nah, that's not used. It's not used. It's all the lago, and then my producer said, okay, who do you want to play with? So what do you mean? Pick some musicians that you want to play this. Any names?

Any names, I said, okay. I said, la, la, name and am I, who's made meusis, I'm favorite. Okay, let's just write that. down, and then we

check availability and then there's there's a there can't there can't and I was like

blown away because I think it not because not because not want because not because

I asked for Steve Gett Steve Gett not so Fini Kalayuta I asked for the

base I was actually at the I was actually, I was actually, I was actually, I'm what's been

how Jimmy Haslip from the yellow jacket. And for guitar, I'd rather than not Michael Landau, I'd thinkerickickirang Larry Carlton.

But Trenata Vinnie Kalayuta and Jimmy Haslip and Michael Endow still there are, I said, no, this three, like being mumped, so it's great to

happen. So, it's great to happen. So, the album for Earth and Heaven that there's two style of music. There's a fusion. So the fusion, I'm playing with Vinnie and Michael Endowedon

Aslib. And then the more straight ahead with Charlie Hayden was supposed to be Jack to Jeanette but not be to be hit. What's the real-you-day is when there's two songs that

I need to percussion. You know, we need to percussion. But we can over-recussion. out. Okay, okay. It would be great. Who do you have in mind? How about Ayrto Moraira? The Ayrto? I was like, then he came in the studio with all his percussion. It was just incredible. It was a sucking the legend. Even Vinny said, hey, you know, if Airto recamane, I'll be a percamin. So when he was there, everybody was there, it was like incredible moment. Yeah.

Yes. And I was only 18. I was only 18 and I was overwhelmed with the whole situation. And we recorded in Chick Korea studio. And he came in. I actually introduced Vinie to Chick. Then they ended up playing together. So I was happy about that. First time playing with Chick.

How did it? I spent on the other than Chick, in Jakarta. In Mandarin, yeah? Oh, wow, you were there. I was just a tiny fan. But, how that, it's the Rassan.

Chick is such an incredible guy. That's like pendekar from where he's got to get him Bruce Lee. Yeah, right? Chick is incredible. He was incredible.

He was that he was. That was, he took a selfie. Right. He was two years before he was before he was long. Yeah, I first met him in Sydney.

This is how incredible he was. 1981, I was like star-struck, he came to Korea first time in backstage, he played with quartet. I got a chance to see him backstage from a friend of mine. And he did. Yeah, he was playing with Steve Gughala, Carlos Beneven, and Tom Brackline. It's a quartet from Era Touchstone album.

I'm a big fan of him, so I tell him all of his career of his. So a jazz writer in Australia, named Eric Myers, he said with me, Indra, you want to get him to meet in Korea, I'll make that happen for you. and then um I'll say

I'm I'm now it's a time let's go backstage get to meet I'm I can't say

whoa chikuria here and then hi he's he'll get in I'm

Eric told me you play the keyboard what's your name again Indra Osama okay

all right do you write your own music yes I do That's good. Keep that up. Okay. Just, just so that's

just that's the one. And then, in the year, it's a manned before. And then he goes, hi, Indra.

How are you doing? I must be in. I was like, wow. I was like, wow. He got to come people. How could he remember my name?

So, for me, it was like, how incredible he was. His memory, his intention, not basa-bas-basi, which is, for me, that's something that just-mangering me to how you actually bring yourself to people. Gapas-basi,

and then I said to him, yeah, I want to record my album. Use my studio. It's open. So, so... At that I finally, recamand in the studio of his, and at the time I had, I had come back to Indonesia,

electric band came, and I came to him. I came to him, I said to him, welcome to Indonesia, I'm now here in Indonesia, and he said, let's play tonight. What?

You play with me tonight? Okay. Okay. I was so nervous, I didn't know what to play. I couldn't enjoy his music because I'm thinking like, there's nothing, he's mind what with him. And then suddenly they intro, Spain, and then he looked at me, he knows exactly where I was, he looked at me, and I said, come up.

And we played Spain together. You did not look nervous at all. Really? I was nervous. I was nervous. You were rocking. You know why? Because as I went on stage, I never had an experience

playing in the Pangu, with sound ase-enagued it. I see. It was incredible. Dudoc, disitu, like, dendin CD of Chi Korea in atas Pangu it. So I was like,

happy. Before nervous. And that means, it's, it's, it's, so the sound of the band, the sound that came out of the stage is like,

it's like, I'm inside this. Like recording that's really, the mix and be mastered. So it's incredible. Wow. All right. Please, one song on a piano.

I'm glad. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not partying, yeah. You're formative years, yeah. It's very kental with how you and ecosystem you're med democratization. Yeah.

Yeah, right? It's not to formulation. And what? that you can to generation penurs for they can be creation.

And this I try book us in context that you've got reproduct that you've done reproductions about 70 albums

that on a different planet. Yeah, right, you know, just junkir-balik to make

one album. But the art of the possible I think You know, it's me, what can make sure

anyone from anyone to beaughan creation as a bunch of two albums. Okay. Maybe what

I can say, first, is I love the process of making music. So, to me, art is

process. How, when we start we process, it's the enigmaton from

the own. So I enjoy the process. So, it's so that

it's seeking for another process. So, so, it's, it's been done,

it's done, it's been in a album. I miss the process again.

So it's like the needs to create that it's made I actually not to

get to make the album because it's like painting for me once a painting is done I want to

take another blank canvas and start painting again and I never there um

what yeah I'm I never to come up with so so let the idea

flows by itself I'm going to make an album. I'm going to make an album. I'm going to make an album. I'm going to make an album let that come naturally. So that's two things that I've done

I've done. You see this as a continuum that's evolutionary? Or it's like it's like it, it's on. It's on. On.

On. On. So it's a continuum. Yes. It's on to continue. And then, and there's, and I don't know. And I'm not ever think, about this album is going to make it in the market.

Yeah, I've heard that's a person, you know. Never. Yeah. Never. Never. And sometimes I even know that When,

when I was process, I know that this like it's that's going to hearin it will be a little so much.

And that's fine. Because it's part also part of my journey in music. I have to finish it. That's... The most gangue,

can if there a person man, I don't know how, coincidentally or serendipitously, he's

he's got to go to write off the career okay very discouraging that's it's not it's

yeah yeah yeah yeah and then don't be done that that's that's

that I think that I think I want I want I say that because because

there's men in the human who who may move the

phase or titic or episode which they're not know how they don't know how it's about to come to come on people, not encouragement. And don't even sampecutive instinct that's

to be able to. I think it's, it's, it's, uh, that's one of negativity that we have hindery, because when we create,

I always see a, to me, creating is a, something that's a certain, um, because I got this so-called talent,

not from where, except from the same man, so if I write music, it means it's also some of a spiritual journey, for me, for me personally. So I see it as, as, as, uh, Ibadah also.

Because how it's in the end of the day, once the creation is done,

it's only like a very, very small part of this big creation that we live in. So, for me, it's just like, I'm just

a spiritual being that, you're just a spiritual being, I have given a backat in the music and I'm not going to sia-sia-in it. How do you see your musical journey as a spiritual one?

I always see the I've seen the of the life of my phase, where the first in Indonesia, before I'm going to

Sydney, that's a phase where I'm really as a young student, then then, then, I'm going to Australia as another, the first of the long story short, the phase that's the most story short, the first, is the deep for me, is,

at the time I released album Reborn. Album Reborn in 2000, that I was, I think I was 30, I was 33, 34. And I was enlightened. So, I was like, like, like,

I was reading lots of books again. So I was reading lots of books again. And I felt like a new-born person. Mackaned-a-luburned. And I just got it. got married, with Hon, Devo,

also, I felt reborn at that time. And then, spiritually, I was awakened. Many things before I didn't

know, I'd know and then I'm not remember, so, so, so, since that,

making music just through was, something that I said, that I said, I mean I said, if I was like, if it's like passion. But if now, it's like a bag of my spiritual journey and my spiritual life.

So, that's ever since reborn. You're going to do you, hobby, hobby, bach. In Indonesia, in Indonesia, the culture of baca book is a bit ofy. tipis. Yeah. What can't what can to the

people to the important to be or in budgebuk. First, for me

the you have an open imagination of how you perceive the writings. You can actually – for I always have

pictures when I read. And it's my own pictures. No one can see it. I'm the only one that can see these pictures, the colors of what I read. And I think it opens up imagination, opens up creativity, opens up perspective. And it can be done by every person who has the Kempuance. So I think reading is very important in that aspect for me, everybody. Of course, apart from knowledge.

But that's it's really that's just because I'm making to be able to be able to book, so, my mind is like

wondering, I have this picture in my mind and that that's that I can't I get in the medium other,

I'm reading. What is what you think you people not like book? Maybe because

boring probably, yeah, I don't know. I see, I love, especially like going to the park. You know, reading in the park. The other campus I, right next to the Royal Botanical Garden. Huge garden.

Not many people. You can just pick any spot to read your books, and you will be just in the zone. So, maybe the not everyone never got people never got it.

But once you love reading, I mean, I've seen people that love reading, they just read anywhere. They just read in the train, the car. So if, if I'm not because, first, it's not be buddayakhan,

yeah. Tohutland, I, there was a time to be able to library, there's

and even curriculum in school made, I'm made, I have to

make, I have to write, because there some literature, and we're we have to

be, at the end of the day, but maybe the the problem of the issue that in New York

there's one titic location public library that's there's there's study that

in the radius about the radius from from the purport that's

there's there was the people menang Nobel and

if traced to the with with with with them with them. Minjim book. Wow. Simple, can?

Simple, very. And I'm in the middle of in the middle of the in Indonesia, it's a big of bagong, the issue of the book, and the people are luas to be perkenaned

to make, to make, and to imagine k'em. Yeah. Oh, I can imagine. As far as digital, And that's one of one that's one

that's one that's a platform that can democratization. I don't know in Indonesia, but I've seen bach that's about about that's like it's that's much in some in the other

in the English, in Australia, I'm in America and in the Europe, people are actually like to read books again So I don't know whether that's a good sign for Indonesia,

for at the end of the young young people are going to find to go to there again. And mengurangy time in social media. Read more. Amen.

You're singing to the choir. But if I'm So if I see this, you, if I think I'm manifestation from a person who can combinacification the quatant preservation with the power of innovation.

This is to be able to beaithing with buda or kibudan, rather, and in the the world, that is a peradaban that is a peradaban that is combinating the quaterpreservation,

call it orthodoxy, with the quatown innovation. Yeah, right? Science. What upon, art, and everything.

Science. Technology. Yes. There's no. There's no other alusan. Indonesia. Not able. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. And, comminacization, and the power but I couldn't agree more. But, but the benang-merhness,

if, I mean, I think, is it's like, is it's like, So, we're getting literati, in a digital, like, as far as non-digital, like, as far as science, like,

as far as, as much, then, then we can't be rankle, meeluk, the quotanauting innovation. Yeah. Yeah, right? Now, back to observation that's before,

soft power. Yeah, right? This is important. Soft power, is to be projectsically through, if, if, I mean, I think,

I think I think I think of the same, the other than what, you know, what you're saying? For usherst, for we can be more more, proectioning soft power. It's a common, for generation of the future to the future.

If I'm looking perkemangan, yeah. Inputulant, I, I, since the year 2014, we've been to Bally. But, So, before we had

before we moved to Bali, we made a jazz club between the 2010 until 2014, we made a jazz club in Jakarta Southan. I've been there. Yes. Beto.

Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, he's, he was going. I'm going to be able tompa. I'm still, I'm going to. And that, it's, we've been um, um,

um, he's many generations mud that the same that's, it's been, by the

people, who are the people who are saying, from them, they're, they're, they're,

yeah, we're, we titip the, and, so, so, so,

um, just, just a, just a just a just a job, but, the place the petipan

anac, that, and, berbacat this. So this we're

really they're really people people and the people and the

people but not have not the environment that

to be to be to be coming so I think that

one one that is very that is to

make a home for this kids kids, whatever bidang that they

have, uh, interest, intraspapun that they need a home for that. And, there, they can't

look, look, and as we said, as we said that we said

that they know the tradition, because we will teach them the tradition, how, actually etica

in music that's actually agh orthodox but they have to know there's a etica how much how communication with etica

that's not can't be taken that at the same time innovate how they can create new music

we can't make music like this for with theme like this try to make with theme like this. But we we're giving

a little we're giving a chance of we're even we're making about how they have respect to the older

generation musicians how they're communicating. Now, the place like we've been back back, like

in So, until now, it's still, there's some of the time from Jakarta, we need it, we need it, it's, we don't know. And that's, it's a lot of work

that, for me, for my sister's to, to, mureusin the place that. But it was a passion that was a passion that's took over,

and then And, I was I'm going that this is what my dad did. What if I was I was

the same is the same thing, so yeah. So, I'm not I'm a very important thing.

For jazz, they need everywhere, where, anywhere, in the manap the jazz club. In front,

you know, the riskoes what, if, if, if, if Pembuahan wadha, sarana, atap, that's, it's not.

Risico, there's jadeenka peningatting glanagan science, glandangang of buddaya. It's important to be wadhackan, it's,

very, if it's, if you know, but they've got to wadhackan, but he's not wadhka, want toquotan, of the world,

buddha, and anything, whatever, if you're there's a and prasarana, not there's a wadah,

not there's atop. So, so will be glendangangangelo. And, and actualization the value not as optimal as much as I'm saying.

And I should, yeah, set up the area, the city council, I must I should I be able to it. And I was

to try to be chiroxed with city council in Jakarta Southan. They don't understand what I was talking about. I said,

this is asset. These kids, asset. If we're not preserve the place this place like this for they're

to bring up. Want to to bring to where the people? And at the same time,

we can't can't look the wadah that can only in

a commercial point of view. Not they need to be sustained that

they need to support and if we look and if we're moving, just they're

made because this they look after of the the same area that, what's the same, the example, in Berlin,

they have 60 proper concert hall, the city. Proper concert hall, with a proper grand piano, with the proper acoustic, proper backstage, proper green room, proper 60. Pertustakaan, museum, they have hundreds of museums. from museum piano, museum spedda, museum

mobile, museum. We can come to Berlin and go there for two weeks and become a smarter person. Yeah.

That's right. And I think if I see, if I see that's, that we are very lacking at this.

Yeah. You know, you know, You know, you're saying that energy you're like to seep yeah, right? Yeah.

If in here, like, it's more positive energy to, yeah. Does that apply to just about every other dimension? Or only in the genia of the there's any other, there's a reason spiritual,

yeah. So, I, actually, I had a jatoo-cinta with Bali from from 16-year-old. At that, in 82, we're still in Australia and then my dad took us for tour,

performed with a group, called children of fantasy. We performed in Jakarta, in Bandung, and the last, if not in Bali. Arrive in Bali. I said to my dad. Yeah, this is the

This is the other, I'm going to say. I'm going to say, what I'm saying? This is. Aura's not, it. It's not, it, for making music. Yeah, Sulsain, do you, school you, I'm thinking, think, think,

pinded, think, pinded. Okay, that I still felt the same, that the same feeling that I'm saying that I'm saying, Still I've got to still I'm the feeling of if, if, if, if people Bali,

it's like the tuxu. There's tux in here that maybe more be the imbang and the other and manusiness, whileupon

now it's a bit to be too 2014 I'd come that, the kisimbangan it's realerer It's very much of the other and manusian and manuania with

Tuhann. There is this ritual every day that we can't then, then it's actually, it's more grounded. The people, and for I, for I,

I need that feeling, grounded feeling, to become more humble, to become to be to be the other things that are the other things that

there's spiritual or even nature and that it's what I'm that I had been

in Jakarta and I needed to slow down too. Jakarta was kind of too fast for me

was too fast in the context, like they're like they're just like you got to do this, you got to do that. Why am I being pushed by someone? But not know who's what? It's like, the situation made me a bit of a tegatang.

So moving to Bali, that was really slowed me down, to help I work and at the same time to help me and my life

we actually could breathe better when we're we're we're we could smell the air nicer

that's what we're that we're that's what we're even though I'm there's little andcamen, andcaman product Bali, so I don't know. But, until now, I'm creatively, it helped me a lot.

Wow. Let's talk about the kids'an, yeah, can? You know, and I always be person that, the other than the young of the opportunity is more than in the time of you. Beto.

Yeah, can? Yeah, can. it's, can be more more the publishing community

right right that who's making coupling capling capling can

right if now with streaming with independent labeling and and everything

it's more it's more it can be it's democratization yeah

by music or soneman that that that that's that

If that's more more more than more than actualization the way economy, semestine it

is it nambung, with actualization of the thing. So, so,

so, so, so, yeah, because incentive economy more,

more more, than than, it's about the 80-an, even,

even, and, and, where, just, just, they've been this not, this, this, this,

this, this, this, yeah, right? Yeah, right. If you can't do you just get it's kind. They're notar they're getting more than proportion of

the samestee. Or about that? Yeah, we're actually, we're at the era that very, to be able

to be to bebeang as a human human music, because of the did not be made uptie

era technology now, digital era. Communication in social media with other musicians from other musicians from Indonesia, should be more much more more.

To market our own music without even getting signed to a label we can do it, we can do it. So, So, actually we are in the era

that's really the era that's the era that's very, very much for people who are people who are

gulut in the world music. Now, but at the same time, it's a jungle out there.

Because there are millions of music every day that that's been on the streaming platform from all over the world. So you become

it becomes harder for you if you are, let's say, a nobody to market your music. How? It's a jungle. Pure jungle. This is what I said

we said, we need to that's conventional, wadhaithed. How we can actually perform in front of maybe 10 people. There is 10 people, there's people, and then they will talk about it. We still need that. Because to just release your music in the streaming platform,

and that's it, it's, it's, it's still not muda to be able to get recognition. Then at the end of the end up, And of the day, musicians need to learn how to market themselves, which is not all of them can't do that. You know, maybe some people are awkward saying, buy my music.

But would you argue then that the math is stacked up against them more today than 30 years ago? Yeah, if from there, music because there's so much information we can learn from from from

from. We're from, we used Chikorea, we didn't, we don't have been about how he mayn't.

If we're back YouTube, oh, we could actually see how we play it. So you can learn by all these millions of videos

that that's that's on the social media and so to learn

to learn to to get something is much easier but

another catch in this here to become original that really really

really that have been color and your own sound that is

it's more a little now. It's been taken, like it's been taken, like if we're taking people playing guitar, we'll just compare,

like, he's got, the k, D, E. It's like, it's been taken, that originality. Now, I'm also

see, now this, many many many people new talents in Indonesia, which, which,

originality the other than the other than it's soking many and they all start to sound the same too. But, not even to not even to that that's what is fresh, it, will make people, what is it?

This is it? So, for, I'm the most important that. How we can actually create our own sound? own sound, our own music, but it's too puto a lot of time, passion, energy to be focused on what we want to focus

to what we want to do. Not too much, who have to, this. This is it's not going to what you with what you're saying, do the math? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, that's like a person to aspiring musician. Dude, do the math. Yeah. Yeah. He has access to information

that's more than but he also perpopulation with competition or competitor that's more more than. Right.

Yeah, right. And I'm, and I'm sorry that situation that just not make us make it make us a person

a man that can make sure from our from our our own, I'm worried there's

there's there there's there because because oh, now

market's like to the industry is like to the industry on, oh, and then

And it's, it'll, actually it's a target, yeah, to be able to

be a man. So, I don't say it's just too same exactly,

I don't think that way. You should not think that way. You should focus on the creation itself.

I, I, I, I think he's about with a hei-i from Europe, then we're talking, then we're being in the pangoon, he's democan,

he made democan, the lago that's been called by AI because of the instructions that's just like through chat just in some

detain, and it's and it's created in some and the person-pessan, if can, lyric-na, there's bough-bou-siber,

and, if you can, there, A, B, C, D, E in, in a few minutes? So, that's ancamancement so-as-a-a-pac-a-lust. For instinct-creative manusia to-de-pac-de-pac.

Or, even, even-pon-pon-pon-the-pon. I love technology. And, and, actually, we're in a lot of

we're going to do with artificial intelligence. Although even in the path

that's very much, we're, we're trying filter for photo. Cary just that's

the AI, right, right. And, without more brightness, and what, we've got

to try, that, it's, so, we're, been gulut with it. And it's really to help us

to be able to make sure something we need. What we want to keep in-in-in-in-in-in it, where we're looking good

if we're looking good if the filter this. The judgment is still in we're in we're,

but but what we're still is as far AI this can be able be able to And, and,

and, ternata, only in the two, three time, the time, AI, bebearing a bit

out of expectation. It's not very much. And this that's actually, it's a question to

us, how much the for the for the that's that we're saying that

we've said in, I'm, I'm I'm going to talk, I'm going to listen lyric. Tollum making me like lyric

about so, so, not like, make-in-l- -l-git-l- -l-git-l- be-to-you-

By-a-way, the song, that's great- that's- good, so. Good, so. It's really. N-re-re?

Yeah. Neri. Nere really. Yeah. This is existential not? This is actually in the

out, the expectation we're we can be socepat this this.

Apalagi if if, umpamane me award I'm I'm

made, I'm it's, It's, it's the AI, that's the law of that,

like, how's the law of that, that. It's on Grammy Award, it's the song that's making AI. How's that? What's that?

What, that? What, it's the same? It's been about about it. It's scary. I, I,

I'm, I'm I'm I've been been able to it because I know um

like I'm a fashion guy I love the process of making music I'm not into the result I'm into the process so so I'm into the process.

So, I'm making It's very I really the process of, Kira-kira, lyrick-nit Kisnitk, I love that. If, if we're like that. It's... It's not evened same as well, that's the power.

But it's really? SANGER-SEN-SANATG. Who's who's in jambin that not there's who've got to... No, there's a man ...mepalajari, ribuan

lago that you've done and make creation something that's evolutionary from carangan or career you. Ibarat-kata AI now is already be able to be able to

miscure all the patent patent that's that have been this. And he can make out of innovation new,

which is a new from the from the accumulation patent. From the accumulation paten. Bissue by the originality there. And that's ancaman that's just existential.

Yeah. Or, maybe the pencournaan that existential to be, apaca, or is science, or buddaya,

or but but, but, it's going to be... This is going to be... This is going to be there, it's going to...

will be dashat again to the front. So, um... If... If there is A.I. ...that is a. ...andralesmana prime. ...that is a manifestation

from... ...dary accumulation of your career ...aida. That's insane. ...ribuan lagu. He can capture because recam jeeggack-ne... Yeah, there.

And he can... ...and, ...and, ...and, ...and, progress of you know and you know and

the and the progression chord the ramah melody and he can

make make purporting or evolution like would you be proud

or sad I both Both. Sad, of course, because we can't, but at the same time, I want to know, too, not?

It's just like what? I wouldn't mind learn the result of it. To be able to, actually, just to make it as a little bit more I would be able to I can be

work more better better as a lot of so I wouldn't mind using AI to study, to learn, to give knowledge that kira kira, can make me more

more to be be be able to create music If, if, then, with way much with a lot of many people,

with how much there's a. I. And, is a. Education I'm going to be more

more to be able to be able to use that. Right. You would actually be more encouraged

than being discouraged. Yeah. Positive thinking, too. Yeah. like this is it's coming

with the way of tumbled this because you can't you can't whatever that you're

in the same you're in the same like bunglan yeah like bunglan yeah yeah

whatever metaphorically whatever but but if if you're I'm not you flip

the narrative narrations it's putar back that usually manusia that's to goad or

to be done by the pesan from the from the from to not to not even but you just true

menhrap in the this is a pemicu for I can be better right. Yeah.

Yeah. I think that's a very important message for the men muda to demand

not even they're not there's something that's being used existential. You can't agree.

Yeah, right. Yes. True. You're talking to meet with musicians, legendarist, he'd think he'll be to take, but blepe just to

turn. You know, it's just to move smant to, right? Yeah. To be a bit when I'm overal with many people.

And, usually, they're, what, yeah, using index hubris and humility.

They're to know when the way to express to make express to be open,

so they're notheran pananan but they also when they're humble. Yeah.

How do you calibrate your hubris humility index? Calibrate, yeah? Oh. Cappan we have

expressive, so people don't know when I have grounded. Yeah. It's not gampang, for people who people who are

at least. Yeah. I'm trying to imagine this this for what I'm

what I have taken. Because to tell you the truth, I never think about it. I am, uh, um, I'm, um, I'm, um,

I'm, um, I get excited, and that's, I think natural. I want people to know my new album, it's, I think it's natural. Although, it's not long. It's not that long, because after that I was haus to make something new like.

I think, at the time I had in position where I want the career I, I want to share what I just just I've done. Maybe in the

At that I always, I always, I'm at the same time, I, I'm, sometimes, I can, sometimes, I'm, maybe, maybe, like, when I create music, I listen to the music for thousands of times. beulang, to poles,

do you know, to get it, in the years I could actually, and then I do my own mixing, so. So, I'm being,

the end of the day, when it's at the time, when I get tired of it. It's too too I'd be doing so I'd do with But at the same time, of course, there's, there's, um, promote the music, to play it live.

And in there, uh, to, to be, uh, to express the music that I've been doing for the past, for six months, is actually, back again, communicating with other musicians. In this I'm I'm really, as a person musician,

I'm still must be music with different musicians. This is I can be made being being expressy

in on on the Pongue nothing compares to that. There's another feeling that And I feel great.

If I've been on the other on the music and expressing my music with the other musicians, it's a feeling that I'm that I'm not that I can't get on the other place. And there I'm I'm,

I can give whatever feeling that I have and share it to the audience. But that's after that I become another just a same

another human being that's when you feel grounded. That's when I feel grounded. As I always feel I be seltsy mind at that moment where I have winding down.

Adrenaline is a big thingy if it's like mangum. When it's done when it's done and then suddenly I just

I felt grounded again and then love being with the family again with the kids in meja matan, and over again. That feeling is the real life of...

brings you back to Earth. If you know. If you're, you know, if you're to be able to play with a child with a small-year-old. Is that your grounded moment? Of course. Yeah, yeah.

And at the time, we jam session, a month and so many kids talented to get, to get to jamming with us. 11, 12, 14, 13, years old.

And then, just mediocre that just mediocre that just may not, they could actually play. And, and I don't think when I was 11, I was that good. So I just through,

that they're better musician than me. Because I, I think that when I'm 11 before so jaguar I'm going to be made. So I'm more I learned something new again from from from these.

this kid. How they perceive music when they're playing? I think it, kind of not thinker, can't think, what, if, if, if, if, they just feel it.

They just feel it. And that's, actually, that's, actually, that's, actually, that's always I docent say that you, when you play, you need to be that child. You need to be that child

who got know what, and just feel the music. Because as we grow old, we're going to be a lot of things, and we start to nikir. Padal,

when when we first to belajured, that feeling that's always that feeling that always has that purity. That's

that I've learned from the purity. they don't think because after I'm saying you feel good about that did you feel good about that?

Taddy you made, you know, it's the month or now? Enaccan now?

Why? It's not just. Ben-ne-lake- and all all. Great. Because I heard

that you played really well. The purity that's from the from the people of this.

Mursuiness the people are that's if I'm it's how to preserve that purity when you

play. You don't they're not nervous too not and talk talk about and the

people don't know people people and they're just mind just great

so great I'm, I'm I'm we, as musicians, who maybe in many different in different environments, with many of many of musicians,

still need to remind ourselves for them always be playing with pure heart, the truth, honesty, that's that I'm, that I'm

that I'm going to try putter a little narrations. I can use metaphor maybe or... Miles Davis This is

this story from Herbie Hancock. When to the first career Herbie, that, the Mal always said to

Herbie. Don't play the butter now too much. I don't know I don't ever know what I mean. Yeah, Ibarat kata butter to can entagued, yeah.

If we're taking care of meat, it, that's the amount. I mean, the, I mean, the, I mean, too, man, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right. You know, you've got to play with music that, like, yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, how do you, how do you put up with

mediocrity or something that's not as level like you want to or so level you're like

how much? Now I'm like this is one one of one one of my idea

I never ever that feeling take over my joy in playing music I always try to

put myself in situations where I still feel the joy of playing music. That's how you stay grounded. The fact that you don't get pissed off. No, no, I never do. So if you play, yeah, try, chary bag.

Menisuechewikers. Manisweak. Man yes. Wow. Maybe some people who know, who'd

what's what's what's what? But, I want to feel the joy in music.

If, if I'm trying to misjudiccan the situation to make it worse, it'll make it

worse to everybody. I'm amazing. I'm going not. I'm not, what's the other, what's the other than I'm, I never had in situation that. The second last question.

This is one and a half a time more. Okay. You've got, yeah? You're, I'm going to how much the peranka-an for musis,

for the of the pentingan compensation their. Okay. It's, it's not yeah, right?

Obat-ne-gmany to-de-de- Yeah, I'm Come back again again to technology. I'm looking perkeemangang technology

this is it must have we can use as much to not, not, not, but to be maximise things.

First is, the time now, the time, real-time, data, and real-time, in real-time, can,

we can, we can access. The second, is, with, with, with the, with it's,

like that. Every soniman music can make the middle man.

How to cut the middleman? It's using technology from the

career that we have from real-time access that we have

we can we can we can so. So, the career we,

who who can use, who who to mutar, it can be tracked

in real-time. And from that's it, I'm sure, I'm in fact, the benefit by that mechanism of royalties

and things and the same and the same. It's been the benefit that more better. It's true.

It's true. It's not it can't do it, so there's middleman. Publishing, what

name name the other the people and the people collect

for musicians but with the technology I believe that it can be better

better for men can get the portion that can setransmaran

much yeah last question what makes you happy What makes me happy? My family, number one. It's like,

bangun pagi, yeah, to meet, the sister and the other than the otherka-an-anak. It's what that I'm, I'm still healthy. So, that I'm a home person.

So, so, the work is there is there work. Very homey person.

So, if I work in studio, okay, I work very early. So, I'm going to party so much

sometimes five o'clock, sometimes six o'clock in the morning. Then I will meet until time, So,

I finished. And I can do other things. And that turned Routinitas that's that makes

more than my wife and my children. And I'm, I'm not Papas like,

not tour or perform if I can be with my family. It's okay. I like that. But of course if we're going to be

on with the family like this, can't be able to because Eva in Jakarta

we don't have we don't really have to spend time that's same since we we've been

to Bali so I always use that time so for me being with the family is what really makes me happy

another one other if Expect Pazis, this, reality this is this. How do you manage this? Yeah. I don't have expectation. Really?

Narik. I don't. Yeah. I never expect. Missalely, going to, mangung, expectation of, wow, the crowd's not, or a little, or a little, I never have that. So if, if I'm going to to go to the pangue,

but I feel the same if you're with 5,000 people. Because it's, it's, it's, I, I, I, I, I, never, not, that feeling that, oh, I'm expecting this much from, not, I don't think so.

So, so, so, so, it's incredible feeling. Bonus, so, bonus, so, Wow. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you. Thank you for coming over. It's such a honor to have you here.

Taman, that's all right. Thank you. Nice. Asick. Stop, Marato. Save! Marato.