Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Irwan Tisnabudi: Ubah Pola Pikir, Dobrak Kebiasaan Lama

Episode Date: January 17, 2024

Gabung Langganan Channel Endgame agar kami dapat terus memberikan konten yang berkualitas: https://sgpp.me/becomemember ----------------------- Perluas pola pikir Anda: "Think the Unthinkable by Jenius" ----------------------- Inovasi menjadi kata yang sering kita dengar atau bicarakan di era digital ini. Namun, pernahkah kita benar-benar berpikir soal makna, proses, dan konsekuensi dari inovasi itu sendiri? Irwan Tisnabudi, Kepala Perbankan Digital dari Bank BTPN, berbagi pengalaman dan perspektif tentang berinovasi di lanskap perbankan selama kepemimpinannya sejak 2016 di Jenius—yang berakar pada merawat rasa penasaran dan tidak takut akan perubahan. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #Jenius ----------------------- Pahami Episode Ini Lebih Baik: https://sgpp.me/eps171notes ----------------------- Berminat menjadi pemimpin visioner berikutnya? Hubungi SGPP Indonesia di: [e-mail] | https://admissions.sgpp.ac.id | https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: Daring Entrepreneurs | Indonesia Matters | Wandering Scientists Kunjungi dan subscribe: SGPP Indonesia | Visinema Pictures

I always said to the team, that's when you wake up in the morning, and you are happy and feel excited to go to the office, that's where you love your job. People don't come to work. People come to make a different. We're saling challenge, we're saling learn, and we're saling grow. That's what makes shape me to more be more diem and mender. Because, in my opinion, with diam and mender, it's good to be able to be. I'ma much

What's genius? What's the pioneer per-banking digital first in Indonesia? It's about time to keep up. PINjaman, it's in-mated to negative. Even, generation of our

our own, we're always always, I don't want to bealtang. But if you're giving card to credit, they're okay. When we'll completely cashless as a nation? This isle digital banking head, bank BATPN, Pa, Irwan, Tisna Budi. This is a newfoundu-in-lawed.

Hello, teman, here we're in front of being Pimpinan of Genius. Irwan, thank you very, Disadir. Thank you, thank you, thank, thank, Pagita, atas, Waktas,

and the time. This is, this, usually, when I'm going to background you're a bit of because correlation

you know how longalamon you when the successusan you know there. It's about, that. Tell it.

How can't how, and how can be you can't be able to be able to bank can't air.

Okay. Uh, so, I'm going to comment a little, I'm not someone

success, I'm, but, but, seriously, the truth of the, I'm sure,

I'm I have a team that's amazing that's what's about genius. Because it's better really, the way of the workerjana, visiness, um, and it's very different. Let me start with my, this, uh,

the mother's my, uh, asal Bandung and Ibu's my, I'm from, I'm from Cerebon, two-dust with my, ...andah, ma'am. So, my father of my husband

because of the U.S.S.A.S. Cilil engineering. This is a good. With a matter of course. For a matter of course. So, ma'amacus. So, I, from the case, I was from the U.S.S.C.

School in Sanktimur, from TK. S.M.P. I can be enough to get a lot of the same as well-as. I'ma-as. I'm a lot of course. School-la-law-basket.

Yeah. Uh, I'm happy. I'm happy. I can make my dad my husband. Um, even though, I'm-sua-huh, that's type of people-tua-lama, that's not-a-faxionate,

that showing that he happy, but I know that, he's very right, that when I'masius, that's just because of Canisius, that's what made sure exposed to study outside. Because in Canisius,

my friend, my time I do, every summer holiday, to America, I think, I think, three kota that, the same-sebut-sebut, that L.A., Seattle, Boston. Yeah. At least, Australia, it,

not ever did be said, So, ma'amotas. From there, because of the U.S.A. From there, I'm trying to persuade the people of mytow, but agaguedgathe's, I've got to give one, because it's a lot, the two, because of the biaya.

So, the people say, he'd want to I'm going to beulia in Indonesia. If you know, If you know what I'm going to be So, yeah, I've got to do you know,

university, one, ITB, and the two is parahyangan. ITB, when that was the top technique industry. All apply technique industry. Because I'm just ordinary guy, so I'm just ordinary guy,

so I'm not got to get ITB-B-neigh-Nia. And lucky enough, I'd have got parahangan and civil engineering also, I was that I'm not wrong. Yeah, banged, because I'ma, yeah. Banga and senang, because, wow, my son-in business

my father's business of theuanguergna, but but I'm not so much the burdened, because it's something that I want to. Why, not something that I want to? And I guess my life-a-a-lawingering, I guess my life-line-gienering, mya-sha-sha-sha-life balance. So, from Sunday to Friday,

so after Sunday, back, so after Saturday, work, and then, the day of the time I'm trying to be able to be able to be able to bea-old to run, that I'd bea-a-to-reve-to-proy, because,

because, who has been just to put in the time Soapu-hmm. Sogant my weekend I'm really-cuh sometimes sometimes in the time I'm going to get to

get to be in the house. Back when I was when I was to take S-D, it's just to buy in Coca-Cola

with ice just, it's just, it's that's just, that's what I know, that's not me, that's not me,

so. So, So, the last monthu-Nathe's Tate-you-old he's got to Indonesia. He said, he's both-dustal-us university. And it's just 20 minutes

on the road from-room. He said, university's good, but not gampang, it's up. So, I mean, I decided to, okay, like, but with one condition. If in Australia, but there's one-year-oldation,

if you're pre-university, if you're not going to be able to be able to be. So, so, so that's the story, because of the same, to make sure that my gulfs. So that's the story. why, from Parahangu, that's during the United, that's different. It's different. Gambling, totally different. In banking, finance, and marketing.

Why, banking finance and marketing, in the 1990s, banking, it's like, like marack-marrag. Then, I also look, in banking, if I look, application, there's many, really, role, there treasury, there retail banking, there marketing, there's many much, so I think banking is quite interesting, because there's a lot of

learning to learn how new, that's been making. That's that I'm going to happen to banking. Now, banking, the first, that I'm going to make universal. Now, now, I'm merger So I'mpermata I'm as a company I'maughaner's development program that's back as a lot of people

bank that's very so So, so So, so, I'm learning one time as management trainee

Then, position it's as what name retail, I'm retail, I'm, I'm in bank universal I'm more

four And then to GE Capital as a risk manager now that's also position risk manager I handle around over a year

and at the same I'm not me I'm more more thaning in risk Why? pivot, why want to get that

that, I'm doing, that's the same with when I'm making, I'm going to make role that new like, because because

because I'm going to make sure there's retail banking in four times I'm in front of my early. So I want to try it in fact that it's not my heart, that's, for me, I'm bored, so. So, I'm just a bosan kind. So, I think,

I got a casepatchance to pindac to change to H.SBC. HHSBC, to, for I, still even not company first, but many memory and many people give up to me I'm using HBC

as manager in Carp Accusation until I lulles 10 years the next year 2011 as as VP in Cards and personal loan

then I'm then I'm going to OCBC Dulu and YOB for role that same but handle the whole business that 2016, ma'amastown, ma'am. So, bethurtedal, when I was puttick, there was puttick,

when I was still stagnant, then interstrait also, they putong, I'm a staff business, and I see digital is something upcoming. Now, but what I'm making meeked meeked was I was I was interview by a book pensionan that's like that's up to be it

a big in digital banking and that was digital banking that I predicate I can't be the first but because because I'm I'm a push, maybe I'm probably, maybe this is the time for me me to try something new,

and, uh, outtunging management bank BTPN, that was, management bank universal also, the first time I joined,

so I'm, and it, to be sure, it's, I'm sure, to make, I'm confident, yeah,

and comfortable, that, at least I, When I'm at least I've got, at least I tell, like management is like what? So that's kind of, what name is, I'm going to, I'm going to be able to do you? I'm concerned, you know, ever, not is, Kepikyrian to come from banking? So, so, can't tell so with profession in perbanking.

Okay, like, G.E. Capital, semi-perbanked. I've beena, ah, ah, I'd be like, ah, menhant I'd be able to befriend, I'm concerned just, because I'm, because I'm puttipankan, right? I'm not, too,

I'm not, but, but the majority, like, yeah, comfort zone is, it's, yeah, yeah, so, yeah, so,

so, man, the whole career is, the perbankan. I, sometimes, I'm, sometimes, I'm, even if even if I'm even when, why come uprored with me, he's always saying, why not making business just, you?

Yeah. Yeah. But, likeing it's, maybe because, because of the law or didican I from the people, my, man, man, part, ma'amers. So, sir. So, so up to a point where I'm where I'm not at a level if I'mcure because I'm sure there's gotagged. Now, this is that made,

maybe I genuinely, there's in comfort zone I, in the perbanking, that's, I said, the titic perubhan myel zone that, is the

point in the same time to BTPN or to Genius. I, I'm 15 years in business Cartucredit, KTA, and tibed, and tibed

I'm going to I'm I've got to a good enough I'm just about the same as well this. This is the genus tell you, yeah,

since the yearnoburnal what you think you make genius better? In a good way, yeah? Yeah.

If you that we had we spoke about santae beforemia one of one one

maybe that's maybe differentiations genius from platform line, that's that's probably

profile of the part of the because of the total workforceing. That's the pastembourging. That's kind of counter-intuitive. Yeah. Biss we can't,

this? Yeah, it's, it's. When I was back, you know, six-bulan that for I was very struggling, yeah, for me. three I'm helpless

because what's the whole the whole genus team is like prepared for launching So, so at the time I'm helpless I'm going to ask people I'm not there who's Because everyone

Because everyone is still For launching Yeah Three months That's stressful for I'm because I I'm not even has to beauntribusy, while I'm not yet

to learn. The good thing is, very unique, so, very different, with company that's beforemere, where we're as a leader, because when that was,

I was going to be head of product and value proposition. And that's a role that, I'm really critical. If I, back back to the seven years last, that's the same year ago, I'm I'm,

I'm the team to create a new and innovative that's what I'm that I'm trying to do you know that I'm able but I'm sure the good thing is

it's making it's actually to be able to be able because because it's at level I'm

I'm not I'm sure I'm sure and gender, capability, background that's just where mostly

not banking background it's made, it's made, make sure, and with asas we want to ender customer or customer focus

that it's because staff staff the genus is can give has made variations. Because, I mean I'm represent user we're going to represent

that's different from companies before me. If I'm going to lose it a little. This is a good. This is a putusatisicant recruitment. It's that's from shareholder

or from management. that, that'shawaiting from the same as much as well as long as it's the same-in-lawful or the mandate-necoulding or mandate-n-ad-dall-law-law-a-law-law-a-cru-banked. Approaching-y-many-a-counter.

So, bet there's-it-lawed-in-cru-clican-counter-a-cabank-cant. But, maybe nature of business-nesses is. Okay. It's a bit-bend-in-get-in-stuant. So it's true. And, and even skill or expertise is the banked, that's not even

not even though in the perbanking. Yeah. Yeah, apalagy, or approach genus, that netherneh or, anting kebill, not ever thinker before you. Bayangin just,

if bang, if, man, used the words, Bapa, Ibu, did genius, not perna. I, nibutna,

I, you, Bro. B'b. B'b? but but but but but intimate like that's even though even though I'm going to make sure

we're making as well as well as well our suburb our people, but but kind of the fact that's the same bank digital, using the gaiabashire that same yeah we're also using, play animation, it's not ever there's been therepickering

Yeah, people who's people, um, um, um, um, can always be that, this, now,

this is, but, and the there's, there's, that's, that's, it's,

it's, and we're, ready to embark something that never ever ever had ever been

to be the benefit of hindsight, the braaniness management or pemgangangangue, and the democratization

a goodus. that's really? Right, right. Right, right. And, and when you know, Janice, to certain extent, the isolate. So, the gay of papayan our freedom

of speaking, it's really, really, be isolated. Yeah. Because that, I think, I'm not really, it's one project percontoan, too, and, now,

we've seen, that BTPN, as bank, also has that even down the other than that. But we're still more area like that. But we're more flexible hour,

we've been dressed down policy, that's already. Dullo, not be able. Dullo, but, Degeneres that was like that. What can't be? What can't be able to beacusy this?

Not. ...embowhackan hasil that we aspirational. Not to becky-pickirate, but, just, but, not capricer. Because that's the way.

We've got to be benchmark so. Part of the time we make this, we're not the benchmarking. So, really, we're really,

we're saying in the country other than has been over the pomegang or the management or what?

No, not. Even. Even. Even when we're we're just in SMIC Indonesia. That's 2016, that

so, So it's the same-as-as-calf-a-cata-cata. And there's comparations-in-it-a-counter. Not-a-not-not-not-not-not-in-a-cap-a-law. Yes. Legisiness what, see, semindap muara pemmikirang that's very brandy to make-mable risk.

Now, this, what, is what, which, you know, that's, you're tumbling with the polo-pickir-d-a-wad-a-old. to more tohapot, batasasant paradigm what's about the time what's the last?

If it's juster in the years, but in general BTPN, also, it's true, this is the main-upaception, yeah? BASIPN, yeah. BASIPA, yeah. So, so, ma'amonging. So, it's way of working-in-near-in-ne.

And that's the embass by the same as a whole, but not as extreme, genius, if I can't be able to. What else? So, digitalization, this, now, it's, it's been very

very genius. And this is just with aspiration you or platform you to, what, see, to give solution life finance

in, with totalitance, PR to the what? It's the time for the last. It's the last year off the same our name name's the city we're doing.

So, so long, that we've got to be able to build is a bent-banking that's different, yeah, melalization. We have vision, we actually, is digitalization that is a bitcuitable or vehicle

to we can't because we can't because we're the lead to gainousy because it's the launching the genius but other than it to we're saying that banking perception it, in the matter of the

that's very hot, that's hard so much so much so that's so that's using this perception

with digitalization where the stila life finance is there because we think there there's

not there people people dream making deposit that there is people

people the minding to liveuro and want money

important, but financials also financialsal always hasnabler, or it's a consequence of life we're, so so we're trying to makegambuncting life finance this is a unique proposition, that which, which, uh, that's theabashire. Now, penguins is one time, everyone

to have access to have to laironsial so that'sa so much more than just in domestic we think about transsaccy domestic and international that also seamlessnesses even. Even the personis not will not be the difference

between transsaccy domestic with transactional. The other than we think we can't people, people who can't because I'm going to get because I'm sure

because I'm sure if we're making make sure the condition the community is more more than because of the credit,

business can be able to get more than can be more than will be more than will be more than more more than more than more than more than more than dream we're going to

But but it's, but we're not able to beer the whole bank also has to be regaract. The whole industry also has been regaract. What else is, what you're doing? What's the idea or ideation is to be smart, more genius? Sojave. Sojave-out, we've been hearing feedback from customer our, that.

There are some other things that we've done. we have we've got to createation process, we've got to make up to createer. So, uproleter, now co-creator this made the landassan awal at the time we're lungerkinous,

that when I was in front after I was going to be in May 2016 we're making a camera we're going to endang our own-le-le-created to download genius.

This is not, not. So, not. So, YouTube, blogger, and other, like, like, like, so-O-L, influencer, so. So, we're going to download genius, which,

at stage, and we gethate feedback so we're getting back, so we're making sure, around over two weeks to three weeks. And we'll, and we'll,

they'll, they'll give us to, there's just like, like testing, so it's just like, like pvety testing, and it's been the sameat that

we've brought, and it's the same that we make an acer with co-creator our computer our, we're, It was often offline So we'll We'll comepourgutored

That's every week But we can't be able to We can't do it, we're doing We've got to be online Malmium can be more, so much, so much, so much So, every meeting it's gonna be 50-100

online. Now, now, with still comealining again to normal behavior, uh, what, what,

we can't happen hybrid so on online, that co-creator this is that like sounding board we're doing, after we're looking when we're asking

feedbacking what, when we're enhance the feature that we're also we're nother other, feature what other other.

Contonioner we we're making foreign currency, we're only it's just only had been four foreign currency that can be

can't be able to with card to debit genius. And then we're next, what's next? So, what's the most? When it was reprimandes before priority, because segment we're still muda

so much, so foreign currency is more people use for traveling, for jalan, instead of giving money, because they're not not having to give money, for the need of the world or another who's in the other country. So that's also priority that we've got from

from the co-creator So there, there, there, there another creator, there internal team also. At the time we're going to decide initiative which will be priority our own. Why, why name is genius?

One, because if we're using the name BTPN Digital Banking, I mean, I'm not there who's how much how much

how much more digital banking and digital banking the first in Indonesia so we needle-neh to make a name that totally and unique-natured, that's in the language

in Indonesia and the language English, pronounce the sense and the same the artini also the two factors that melandasi that.

The other, we're trying to And it's the spirit that's different, with a lot more dynamic, more bright, more engaging, that's also one factor that we thinker than,

from using the name of BTPN it, and I want to make sure, I'm going to give a few observations, macro, yeah, that's being embonged with how you can't be piquir to the the first there's the end up to

the other than we're the other than to it's just to make gratification instant yeah can so hard for our own to make sure that we're to make surenation

because gratification instant or or kikinian this is good for consumption so it's maybe we need to we buy mobile

of the thaning, than you know-mobile more than you doveting to investasies. What do you think you can't be

more to be able to the importance we can'tgutkaity and we're trying the goodunctuary yeah, right? Yeah, we're all should live, but I'm

see, with penangu shrapification to the mass the Upton, we can't we can't get back in non-productsustation, right? Not know, that's, it's, that's been

about, yeah, in the way, the same year, when we're doing launchers, it, focusing, even more to simple saving and transaction. We're, we're first, who'll unincurring account, who's melanchor can multiple cards,

that. But we're looking, we're looking at, because financial is beyond this. So, so, yeah, so we also, we need-education nasabah

in the whole financial, so that we're in front of future that's up the future can't help financial management nasabat. We have a feature that's namenation,

monetary. Money-tory, that's from the same-catan-story. It's to give information the, this, we're supposed

or deficit. Sometimes, sometimes we've got, we've got, we've got, temptation, and spending that's big, very much. Yeah. Now, this also we're giving in a way to monitor,

so we're not just not just need to prepare for the changes, so, so. So, so, we're getting money, sorry, we're giving, we're, uh, categorization the expenditure,

so we're, oh, we're, the because of what? because of what? because of the money that we're going to that we're doing.

Then we also launchur can product product like mutual fund in the application genius. This is also for us to give them

to make the , investation is with much and more and more that. The third is

product of pinjaman that, if we're if we're survey to nasabah, that'sabash, ma'am.

It's about, but we're not sure. So, so. So, we're positioning, but to manage financial. There are some of the future

and this is from the team we're at, when it was one one management trainee we're in, two, two. He gave

one initiative, innovation, innovation, and, the name-in-it- That's a behavioral hack. Beaviric is, what? So, information is that we're trying tempting

to planja, after in-room, we're saying, we're doing, we're doing, so, there's discount, we, we buy, we, we're buying, we, we. So, we're impulsive.

Impulsive, that. So, so. So, so, out of the feature, that's split pay. So, So that'sa-tabye,

Tisagued Tresuble, we can't click Transcacist Tresby-Kan. Split-Pay-Kam, bactually, bansupt So, we're in Bandsbagoe. So, we'll take,

so we can't chitle until 36-bun. Okay. So, so, before transaction, or after transaction, if, if the regret

transaction that's that's actually. I see. That that's also that we're also. That's also that's what we're going to spend if we're going to be. Penisalance there, but we're casketesolusiness. This idea that's from the age of 22 years.

So, you know, you're going to make upputusance with a way that's beteliality It's humbonged with hierarchy, or feudalism. It's very democratic, yeah? Yeah. This is it asumscicant,

it's very menelour. Very, so if there's a manor two days, he'd be perkenenant to beersuara, and if the sounderan, the soundop.

Soar it. Hello, I'm going to say thank you very much Thank you, we've got exist in game this, more than three-tawn,

and this is, it's a idea, experiment, that's quite unthinkable. We're also very appreciate that that, the people who are that here

in the place this is a unthinkable. And, And whatever about about the ideas, discussion, discursus, it's quite

thinkable to leth us, to be able to make uptacation. Tetap percaya identity our, that's re-endiked

by Nenek-Moyang our hundred years last, don't get taken, don't take-outus, adaptatisical with the technology the new technology

the new we can we can't indentititiasia curiosity exploratory curiosity is what

actually leads to new discoveries if you if it's all from a textbook you could limit your imagination and also

if you're to benewaline going to see other Look at the world that. So, so that's what I've been before we can

be able to make up and make sure and make sure that's structural and mambung with our

future. Silak in the playlist that we have used with team in Genius with

the unthinkable link can be check in description. Now back to the show. We're flat organization's

We're at the same. I was right? I was at the bottom head digital banking When I was in level I'm not I'm not put in a room and

Butahle, in the company I had had a roomerer, I have been a secretary I'm going to When I'm going to get in here

when it's just that, it's there every day we can dook Doudasking So, so we can do not We can't dole developer

developer. Developer Tidabuble up to be able to be able to say, I can't do you guys, and then, I mean, I think, it's time for, we can't be interact without any rate

that memisaka that's from communication that so, so, so, I mean, it's unique, and it's really fun. Because I can't listen, even first-hand experience,

that, from the team we, so, I don't know There's the world, in Indonesia, where the mainpimpinpinpinpinitization the people of the whole way. Not many.

Yeah, can? It's, maybe, if anyone, be given but the leaguedy-neaping if the putusation is wrong. How, the,

manage the consequencey-in-y-nege consequences? I'm just that's just to beckle, it's just to stifle or discourage democratization of the pen decision to the way. One, because, back again,

as a pioneer digital banking, we don't have beenchmark, so. So, so when we say, that's the behavioral hack or that, or did,

be a result or not, there's not, because no other who has been have the future soot so much to to do you

without without without the another. The other is that when there idea, it's usually

we're doing brainstorming with team related, because we're because we're not based on function

but but based on role, role that may becapai. Like, we have you know what's stream that's stream, stream, stream, yeah, stream, transaction, have stream credit card,

have stream BNPL, have stream flexi-kast, and, and, like, and, line. Now, idea that related to, we'll be able to, to stream transaction. The stream that's in so many different people from so many different roles,

that will be able to bexas, is a function, is relevant to the data is relevant, for the same transaction? They're going to goadog, melawk, melawks, and the user user focus on a group discussion, that's going to do.

So, so, at the idea that is there, we tapung, we pass on to stream that's that related to-quite, And sopest, to do you know, to do you know, he has a new initiative. From 10 initiative,

the product prioritization, he proposed 5, based on ranking. Now, who's who is here in product prioritization, we have the leader. And all of the stream

and squad, and chapter, that, we're who, we're here. And we're in challenge, Why? What, what basic? If there's out of data

If we need to use our gulfield because there's not not there information before me Yeah From there, we keep challenging And, finally we agree To look

to look at this is innovative enough To achieve a certain business API While at the same time also, with the customer so much more than the processioning it,

at the same time, the data that we've got to be able to, but research or survey to the user has already we've done before. So, so that's accountability or the first one jobbantia. Right.

This I want to try give you a gambot about, today we've spent gombole santae also about what about what about about about about the same about

discussion about about the same person Amazon is a great very even though even though even with the benefit of hindsight he aghack, he

aghack, because there's a lot of the That's a lot of the same is a problem It's about Compromy Yeah, can't Angapleh Gunga

Bungaughan Then there's other other than Why not X plus 1% Yeah, yeah, Compromin, yeah, X plus

05% only Yeah, well, he's It's very because because of the the matter of because of the truth

because of the the truth impiris. The two, the penalance or the decision is often bydashers

were based war of attrition. Who can be argumentation? The sound can't even the last less than

more pinter he's, he was that he was taken. He-amble idea-itken but that's just but that's the bestishten

because of the benedaren now, this can, you know, this can, you can, you can't be able to unchartered territory for Indonesia, maybe in the place other,

not. Agat difficult, you know, maybe like black box. Yeah. We're innovation sojave-innovation as far as

We have to compromis with a bit of attrition or or even through thebatechus or booki empiris. To the depoteney how much for genius. When it was hard, maybe it's hard to get back

and data. Because there's been there. Data or or input I think I think I'm the that's the most of the most of the that's the most important that we can't when we can't make sure that we're making

make sure that we're making, but to the next thing we're going to be able to some of the data. And data that is that we're using that we're using. So it's a mix between data and the customer say, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, but, but also, you know, because team we're present a certain segment of

customer, so that's, soarer, like to be heard, that. But, in front, if I'm not sure I'm curious, puttussant that will be able to be a certain, yeah, yeah, yeah, we're trying, yeah, we're trying, yeah, we're we have to try from inders argumentation yeah, mingendar

from compromi from consensus yeah, and with digital data that's clear 0 or 1 0 or 1

yeah right yeah right yeah right yeah right yeah right yeah yeah if I'm sorry

macro if I'm back yeah if you this in the country in the country

maju this is very many It's more than More than demand It's the numberingu-bunga Mo-mong-mau,

so much more than to be Sokvbunga, trend Maybe there's episodic stress But mustiness Begini. And then, and then, also, inflation, it's always

to kind of be kendalika with kind of stucu-buner With application, that's Pembergaian artificial intelligence Somestinia, it's the best because of course of course. because productivity,

because of the artificial intelligence. If you're going to be able to go ahead in terms of the same thingerous in a way to beck, semestinion the suco-bunga also will be able to be able to. Now, the nasip industry perbanking

is how to the front if it's kugunga is systematic, and thenceitless, because banking name, this has been innovation

new, to not be gantung to NIM or net interest margin. Yeah, right. Pumigrant them are how? That's,

that's the point of, P.R. Or, dream, we're, that, we can't eveninging it's name, because swing-kir-biz. One of the base is v-base. V-base is more more sustainable.

But V-base is, it, it must be made with melawinging ecosystem, so that transaccy it be able to putar. And, because, it's from the first, at the same genus did luncurek in the first, we're aiming a retail individual transactional, banking customer, Because we're just because we're just because of them just as well.

So, it's the same thing we're, what, what, now the name, ma'amination. But, it's not superna, because we don't have been a payment ecosystem. So, soing that data that we're taking, actively bertranssaxies, the data and the word. And the purportarant and the transaction the same before

in, what, the, what, name, the, the environment, in BTPN, so this so this

so this, but it's, back it. Well, maybe, I'm going explore again about

human resource. This, you, this, with, Sdemant, S-Sd-ad-ad-ad-ad,

or, like you know, maybe 7 or 12? Or, maybe, or 10-0? Or, maybe, if you're at 10-or-de-9. Maybe, if we're not from now, the condition we're not, 9,

yeah, Pa, yeah. We're as a leader must be more than more than, you know, because at a certain extent, also, I'm even in team maybe there's the time with with the same way to be able to

and dynamics that we're kind of again we're taking the putusan, what, name, the what, what, what, what, what, what, what, staff we're, that's, we're, like, soing-it-than-than-than-than-a-punuch-than-a-punuch-old, oh, I'm not-puneric-all-old, you don't, like, motivation, that's what, we're, what, we're, we're, we're, we're,

and, we're, and it, not just in genius, too, because, by, the intu-it-it-it-it-it-it-c, not just, but there's about the J-wide, with compliance, with bank-wide, with compliance, bank-wide, that's, that's, that's,

that's, sometimes, from team we're making reluctant to, to, um, to make an idea to add-up, the functions,

functions other, that's not so-terbucked that, that, this, that we're, that, has,

to- , so, so, so- Not that. So, so. So, so that's not even got to genius and in bank white, it's really,

really, mempuny the idea that's a lot, so democratizationing also can be better than job more better.

Colaboration with platform line that miry, there's a interbuckaan? Collaboration, we have

some, like, we're, we've got collaborated, with a couple vendor, Vintech,

we've got collaboration, we have we have a business also teleco partner. We've been runcurek-a-luncurement, that's also, that's different ways we've done, and and, even, while we're going to explore

possibility for collaboration, I'm in front of my opinion, I mean, I'm not, it's a lot and very important for digitalization, that. But, ma'amplementation, ma'am? What? Yeah, because what?

Because collaboration is to have a mindset that we're both can make-salescalfing something more good than we're doing. And challenge is not,

set up company that maybe should have become ecosystem. So, so the cendulonganer, if one partner has already

them and then it's hard for them because they're called with the ecosystem so that's used create ecosystems ecosystem,

the industry, that's why it that's why it's that's difficult to for, to to, to,

to, in a local collaboration that we want. This, if we're looking, purusans

business, such Apple or Amazon, motto or mantra their is a bit better. If Amazon, they're focus on customer-sentricity, did-bucked with innovation, and

also cost management. The most sure can, but as a decadent with customer. Now, if Alp. If you can think different. Genius, is it more than the way. When we've done We've donechurk, We've been through the last,

the way to think of the same, yeah, we want to create something beyond the standard. We want to reinvent it banking, the banking that was cool, rigid, that's making it so it's more fun, but, but, but,

but if I, if I, not because of the two-dream I think big dream we're being made innovation company that stay relevant with the people

but we're also with the way customer focus so we can we can be vehicle more than more than life finance yeah

so. So, so if you can't be able to be able to be doing it's two-d-d-y-pac. But But there's the alasance, Yeah, yeah,

yeah, yeah, levy to apple, because focus is more to be innovative, to be different, that's all the mualaughalana. What you're saying to to the abuania, to anac buha, to the abuania, anac buha, to anac buah, anac buah,

so that the institution, the unthinkable. that's what keeps you awake? Soapy, it's going to be continue to be resinamung. Yeah. I think we're going to credo we're going to.

We have one credo that we've set, that's set. Yeah, that people don't come to work. People come to make a difference. We're selling challenge We're saying challenge, we're saying And we're saying different

And very important and very critical Fun is as important as the result So for me, it's just mental or spirit of our So every time if there's idea idea that We're let's ask back, we're There's any better ways or not?

Because, kind of, sometimes Sambati, with data, with idea that's good, but maybe there's other that's more than people that's a lot of augmented solution, so we're

so that anything that more than anything that's better option or not? And what's the most important is we always ask, what does the customer say? Because idea that's the last thing, the first we do we'll happen is, that's it makes sense or not?

Does it help your financial or not? Does it help your financial or not? Does it help your life or not? That's always the question that we're talking about. That's the kittakerancey. That's kind of potential blind spots. There's other, yeah, that you know, that you're doing as a extra layer to make sure that

you can't capture blind spots something that'spastiness yeah, like we're like we're like to make mobile, there's spion, right? There's right, can't be blackout that's blind spot. What you're, or you're or you're making to make sure

that you're not glisten in spion this, It's a lot of One of the first of course. One of us, first of the leader's and several people people who are MIS

for update business like what, people, but the other the other than the last is we're rotation. So, that's meeting, to present the idea, to present the progress that they're work for that's one of the same one of the way to,

to make sure to beapeuticant people to bring up to give idea to the leaders, that maybe before they'd beanggap, wow, but that's a good idea. But that's the speciality of the technical. If we've got to technical, We've got to technical technical team, every two-week-secally, to make sure that's a sprint-demo.

Now, sprint-demo, this is not present by the leader-in. The same-end developer our, front-end developer we're going to beck-end developer we're going to begrossed from the initiative that they've worked. So, if there's one stream that's like making foreign currency,

like, But they've got, but they can't And they can't feel like, this status of my, this is the other one work for we're doing, there's another one month to develop this. There's a mark-a-dre-dard-a-dar-dard-a-dard-old. So, it's also embisage-kind-up to,

to be able to speak-up, to be able to get-critic or challenge from the friends-temines-indindindindinds. But, I think, that's a lot of Activities that, I'm good and very good, for people people's about, and also give a chance of the other than

challenge and make sure that's more than what he can't work than what he can't. Platform our endgame, this is part of how we can be a dedicated children of young, to be a storyteller.

With the peckon, because of the people inundasia mallow, even if they're like to out of the world, yeah, right. So, we're making platform, for the same part of people,

to becerita. And, shuck, shook, donging, this, can donging in to out. Because Indonesia, not too

did like India or but we're still in kind of in the same kind of in the context microcosm in institutions you know, you know,

that's the culture communication that all over the whole lapisance that is embuffing optimism

about Indonesia in the whole I'm I'm sure. I'm not. I'm in team genuine because we're not

gap quite large organization so that the kids are sure that's much more than be able to make up and

I think this is a that's true that because I'm I think that the more than people than

I'm doing even I'm yeah the time we're Malo, but not just about, but too, but also I'm just like, but also, I'm just like to jaciline Bule Bule, right, butthal, if you're,

Boutel, yeah, Bucleynes, it's, silent, if, if I'm, like, but but, but we're not, and we're ambiasa-kind, and we're making, uh, and we're just gonna bea-olde, if there's, there, yeah, that's gonna, that we're, yeah, we're, yeah, we're gonna, that, what do you think?

And, and, again, I'm gonna'-ska-ska-uh, If I always, why, why, I still want to fight to be in my, my friend, who, too, that's even when I think I, now that now, now, now, now, the perbedaance of the lawyreaner than the lusan Indonesia, is tipis. Because information, it's, is, it, is to be open, umum. I was to Australia. I want to Australia.

I want to America, I'm going to be able to. So, now, not peru, that. So, I think, to be able to learn, it's more open, lebar, and I see, senem-bent-bondition like now, that's,

that we're, we're supposed to be able to be able to be able to, because informationing has been there, that. I'm looking, kindalanya,

that's in the other than I'maughan, yeah, yeah, I'm saying, yeah, if in Indonesia, there's 100,000 people who can't say. Narration, we can't be narrasic can to be narrasiccan to all the world. Yeah, and I'm looking at,

you've, that's been a institution that, like, democratization, idea, it's just so much and this, implacation is a lot-biasa. Of course, but to the people of the people to the consumer. This is now, this is right?

Yeah, this is currently 4-5-juta, but if they're mercacaca-in-lawful-communication that bad, yeah, the number-in-a-one-court-a-a-a-court-a-a-a-cuit. But, masing, from 5-juta-in, user-experience-beda, but buddaying also ber-bid-bid-bac. For the better. Sopacuspacus. And, and more than they're more than they're going to be communiqueous,

smotech, smotech, and this is a lot of the effect. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah,

I mean, I mean, I mean, I'm important, how much more than the way. And I guess what we're doing seven years ago, and we make it consistent, I mean, I think, to, to, be recognized, and we're seeing,

also, the nasabah our, who, who's, that's, far more open with us, with ush. I think we need if we need a survey to Nassaba our people, it's justa-its-cally but in JANUS-It-Safe-Hour-Hour-N-Hour-Ki-KU, we have team research or team survey that's every day, that's

every day, make contact Nassaba, by it through W-A, melalue, phone call, melalue focus group discussion, and they're very open, to give feedback that's very meaningful for us. So, we can't even-fue-fue-bue-bue-bue-to-wek.

So, we can't even where, where's the level satisfaction of the other on the data that we're giving and this is

more good because buda ya speak up that is much more more than you more than you you know you're

you're saying you're risk averse I'm going to try to bookus in context digital literacy if I'm

If I'm not a definition, that's the definition of the general literacy, it's a bit more than a bit more than I'm a lot of it. But if I'm not just as much more than how literacy digital to be able to manage risk. Yeah. Yeah, right? Seringly, we're only just not as faram,

but we're not as ajarou management of risk. I'm just definition. I'm nothertying digital literacy to be able to as far as much management. So, but digital literacy for us to be part of financial literacy.

So, we thinkerner when we're making uncululcure or melancholy that, we also give us a solution financial, like, like,

like, if the payment that, in-mata-oram-a-oh-a-worn-a-oh-a-move-a-old, is negative, that's it's very much, but too, even even when we're using even when we're using genius,

also if you're saying, I don't want to be, but if they're going to pay credit, they're okay, because they're saying the concept not goutang, but they're being transcansuctions, but why BNPL

Pay Later also be so successful in Indonesia because concepting not guntary. I'm right. So, so, so that's about, education this is also, that we're doing,

and we're going to, that's like to get, but, but, but, it's, it's, because,

so yeah, so yeah, the, so yeah, things that's not the samestiness, that's, that's,

but, to accelerating the, either, or, that's, to, for,

to, to, for, to, to, , There's the person that's about the best We've got to be able to 30 years.

Wow. Where, for business card to credit, that I'd let's get to credit, not there's who's to credit. Because, uh, uh, uh,

uh, uh, in the bottom of 30 years, maybe before jobber, um, don't have been, pinjaman, don't have credit history in,

the, in regulator our, so, so, so, so, so, yeah,

yeah, yeah, But with the genus, we can give us. small limit from the behavior scoring that we'll make sure. So, if you're not sure enough, the money money, torreiness, the surplus, he's used using some of the functions saving,

balance is a quite stable. We can't pay later, which limit is 500,000. From there, we'll see how, he'll look at it, make laterator then, then, the pay lateranes because it's about

the little, so if you're back again, we're going to make-in-limit-ne, we'll make-lux-cash. Flexic-cass is pinjaman that

can be chitle in a while un-lott. Nanty-a-d-d-d-t can't-a-gut-old, and then-a-l-l-l-l-l. And, and then-lety, so, and, like,

And we're just about, that's about that's about not a good, but we need to have control and we have to know how how much use financial our financial we're, because because,

I'm meeting with team, there's 10 people, I'm asking, there, is, there? There, not, in-tara, that we're in-meja-in-in-a-in-a-in-a-injama? Yeah, that's not. And so much I'm also

I'm not even so much more than that's a little to be able to accelerate it's a man one of one one product that's

but don't be able to be able to be and dismal and dismal and that'serable the reasoning to do you want to do you

do buy class or buy stuff that's the education back back. gratification, right? Yeah, right. Yeah, that's, yeah, there's a stilanglemental of low time preference

and high time preference. Anna can't young people, that time preference is too high-time. How, for it, it, can't be rendhacken. So, they're, they can't be able to be able to make sure to beerbanking, to have beened backer to

have to be able to be investasies. Yeah, can't be a lot of consummese. Yeah. Yeah, The other than the time You know, you know, experiment that you've done after after after

the impact of how much to the sector perbanking? I think the impact of it, I'm going to beckon. It's been like, yeah. I don't know, see, if I don't know. I mean, you've done so well.

I mean, you've become a top of mind for the kids' young now, yeah, right? Yeah, right. And user experience is also korean, allegedly, in order to people who've got made. I've been making, but I,

I'm going to, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for people people who are still merankul conventional wisdom, yeah, yeah, agga, this, this, you know, make-cathircan, for them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're creating something that's a certain extent, we're racing the bar,

so you're getting, there's not, there's not who's going to be able to beckering, that's not, there's going to, like, it's going to beckoning, there's going to. There's who's going to buy foreign currency in Money Changer, not? It's been done in Genius, and can be able to becunders, and can be able to carto, that.

There's going to be bank, to come up the deposito, not there's a lot of the other than no, now. Yeah. He already can't, with, without application,

that, that's certain extent, it's just, it's just, but at a time, it's also, it's, it's,

push back to us, what's next, that, yeah, so, so, so, it's,

it's, because it's because of course and it's because of course, because of course, the conditions and the restis change is that every time, to stay relevant with, with the need of the nassabahua. With peningotation, it's always, you know, the barangue about about transnational. Yeah.

Yeah. To process, for the people of the class, this is how much to be it, to beem, and we enderdom, yeah. Yeah.

Bener, Pa, so, so, Breaninian, it's always to barreninging with security, yeah. Because, certainly is it is too convenient

we're making aspect security. But in Genius, because we're bank, security is our top rarity, we're highly regulated. To want to launchurkan product just, we're still having approval from regulator, so this is one thing. So, this is one thing that's really, to the TIPPN, in the genus, because of the other thing, the other thing is one thing is, fraud also,

in the samearact, we're just in genius, we're just spent, tempet, the impact of the time, that, social engineering. Yep. Yeah,

so, so, so, I'm not sure sure is that's that's just that we're just that we're just we're doing that people

people who are people working with people for same as well we're doing national we're doing regulators with Bank Indonesia and OJK also to same to make educacy this

but but at a time same we're trying to get to remandas if there fraudser that we can bejure we can't we're just So other than I mean that's

I'm not just as a bank part of the same thing So allure of the people. So, So we're always, we can't have system that modern, which we think, the most mumpuny

to be able to safeguard or cyber security or fraud, but there are other other than we need, that this is one one, one, to the business,

because we're as much, ashabah, also, people, and also, industry, industry, the industry, related

like, so, telecommunication, that's, if we're on the same, we're doing, bank,

banking, or fintech, or, other, yeah, usually we're using email and handphone.

Now, this also, the role we, in telecommunication also, to make sure that,

that's sure, that's, yeah. Now, the banking, also education this that's the same-pananmenan system that's every time we're looking

test and review, to make sure that this not what it's not to be. What, in front of the context evolution of Permanakum, in 5, 10,000 to be there. With what,

with what you've done, with what you've been in the around you're doing. We've got to look at the evolution, so. So, like, so much more than, that's about 30 years, it's been shifting, with pandemic, and we've got to look at,

that people who are more mature, 45, 50 years, is already, and, and, in fact, I mean, I'm sure, because,

because, because, when the time, the people, people, people, people, people,

people, people, the, people, people, So, digital is bethutal it's the moment this. And we'll look at the topaner, if we're still still-savie,

or conventional, maybe one-saat, five, 10-year-old-old-native. There's just digital-native. Not-a-savie or less-digital or what, because everyone has been, because of the era digital, that's one.

The second is, because of the era digital, he's not-a-panking that's there, there's a gooding-a-m. ATM, that's not, because now now, now, because now they're making cashless, so, demand will be more more than, because,

I mean, I'm the time now, in era digitalization, the name name's speed, it, has, already, It's very much. And, it's true, what's true? People are more than just as far as instant. So, what we're going to instant.

So what we're doing this, maybe, again, it's not relevant again, because it's going to be evolutionary to, to be the expectation of segment that's more digital-native than digital-savie,

that's... Yeah. when, when we'll completely cashless I think I'm not as a nation? I think I'm not including including

the world lapisance because we're looking if the lapisaracat that's city, Fort City that,

I think, I'm still using money cash. And, I mean, I mean, I mean I'm noticative people's right, even though, I think time,

for the implementation of it, can't jarring the lapisance people. That we're pattying, in India, they're going to make troublesen to make cash-lessed the years ago.

At all the awoling, it's kind of cacao-ballo, but after one, two, three a year's yet-a-a-a-tuce-a-success-cally, like, is it? Maybe not, in five-year-old, Indonesia, is completely cashless?

Or, too ambitious, or too over-simplification? So, but, you know, if it's not even if you're not, payment, digital payment, that's more can't be able to implementat because of the same, but that's not,

butchalization is also putture, purbahan culture, and maybe there's segments certain to that's too too, to

be able to be able to doobah culture to, to accept the fact that that is cashless, and it's digital, maybe that's

what's the fact Maybe 100% But as farusenor later, it's going to be cashless Yeah. Yeah. You've got multi-currency, yeah, with Tibet, like, with this, that, that, in, like,

to, if, to, to all the world, be transsaccy, or alluasia-Pacific, per-transsaccy? Okay. If, in,

in, in-javap, if it can be transaccy, can be transaccy, okay. But but currency, for the money that we've got to bea-uang that's got to-neged. But what we've got to-uangue in the country that's about.

But we don't have money-upon-you-bid debit rupee. Because we've got to use visa as a network we're. So as long as, as, as, as, as-dimannapu-it-network that is, so betrashy-bis-bis-bis. But from 9 currency, can expand, not? To allurcarii-a-a-s-s-a-sit. It's actually. I'm in the process.

We are trying to collaborate with certain partners that can be more than 50 foreign currency. So, so, we're not long again, we can't have foreign currency that's amazing, so that want to be the world

that can't buy foreign currency to be managed earlier, that. And if you travel, Where does that? AI. How much? How do you look at the up? A.I. Artificial Intelligence.

AI, we have used. Even still is still in some touchpoint or feature. Like, for example, mengitung behavior scoring. That, we've got to be able to AI. So, we have lending that, for flexi cash,

credit card, it's already straight through, like we have. So, people apply in application, in a. In the time of the a. The ID's scoring is garupa, it's already able to approve or not. Because checking to credit

bureau also should be done seamless, straight-through. The second, we also use use chatbot. Yeah, we know that Nassaba Indonesia, it's really getting. From the call,

from email, they more such chatting. So, we also incorporate chatting that's capability in application genius. So, if there there who's who's who complain, that's just because of chat,

let's application genus. Now, we're looking at the chat this, more than 60% complaint, inquiry, request, that's coming through chat. So,

we think if we must be there someone who's in the backang not can't just be able to adapt with, adapt,

with, kind of, the naqaqaqa our, so. So, sootot this is that chatbot not to let's say that we've got to have because we're saying that we're going to talk about.

So, chatbot this function is manned-humaning robot. And functioning not just to increase productivity, but increase accuracy also. If you're the same, maybe as there's some of some there's about there's about there's about there's about there's about plus plus plus more precise

can't even more accurate when we're making information and more so much so yeah so so that's the AI that's what we're doing one another one more thanitory

auto categorization transaccy it's also we've got to again again now penguania I think I'm I'm not because

because most, if not all, more than AI, more than the secondation. But, the ultimate goal of AI is to personalization. So, people that's the income is same, the umpurned same,

but not certain offering that will be same. Just this, this is, this is AI that can help us to to make, if you know, if you're like, if it's important to be able to remit, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, bettool, AI is able to, to help us to be able to get down with customer,

because personalization it'ser so, yeah, soing what we're relevant, that's, and this, like, yeah, and this, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, to make uproredaance. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. What else? Genus that need to tell you. Um. Yeah.

The, the kind of what's what, what, yeah, topography or landscape

industry. Um, maybe if we're still we have multi, what name

the type of staff in our from different. The same way of the way. So, if we're doing company that's the team that bekerja based on the function. Product, marketing, sales, operation, finance, that.

If we, I said, I boughed a bit more than a stream model, there's chapter model. We have 7-8 stream who has the QPI business and KPI delivery for the initiative to stream to the same. We have also foundation

and common services like the example of marketing, operation, finance, IT, it's made to be common services. Now, if common services, team is a team that

team that homogeneous. So, if you're finance, yeah, Everyone is that. Because this is allureux function is called in genius. Sedangarineous, heterogeneous,

not homogenous. heterogeneous, because. Autogeneous, why? In-drawn-in, because, it's a back-end developer, front-end developer, Q-A, Q-E,

UI-U-U-X, there digital marketing, there on the operation, there, there, one-lety. It's bekerja because because we'll see what we're because of the same is

because of the speed. If we're using structural function, when the credit card is to launchers one product, he can't be like to marketing to be making program. Marketing that's going to say, I'll be working in flexi-cash. Tugue, d'u-due, yeah?

Sedankan-can, if the person marketing is there in the down stream the same, he has the other. The other than the other than the marketing people's sales. How much with technical developer we? How about? How about? Celebration is together, so much better than barrens. So, so much more than the same thing, that's working with drive this. So this is what we're looking at work together in time, it's, it's, so much quiet,

and not silo, so it so. And team this can we rotate, berasakaan the keyentingan from business and also relevancy to redovancy to innovation that we want to make. for customer since you've goth since you've been from Dacharra? I'm in Jakarta Okay

School in London Indy to Australia until now Anything you would have done differently Maybe Maybe if from From now

But if you're from the company that's to the company that's about the same thing that's about the problem with the struggleal of my life in front of that's up the same yearn. That's what makes shape

I to more more diem and medinor because I'm in front of I'm saying that's good for I to be able to learn What? The other. The other is,

also, because I'm sure you know to do give guidance, and be instruxie how to do. Justu-secureang this role

I'm not to give guidance, but memosilitati so, soing that people can makeutarack the pedat

the idea, the idea that relevant. Tantit the task the leader to be

and muculking act with the idea, initiative, user our user so. So, I think I'm a different. The way of mymipin meeting, also, if I was set the tone,

now this is, they're using with team that presenting what they want to update, this. This is like with Jeff Bezos. He, if you're going to bempin, in Amazon, when it's blue origin,

He's the last thing he's the meeting. And he's partik, the person who's the first one of the first. And I think you've done great, man. Thank you, man. What do you do for fun? When did you do for fun? Look at all right.

I mean, I'd like it's fun. Same, I'm just so. Not there's a bit more than. We're both to mall and we're to work. there's there. And in front of the creativity, so. So, so for you know,

this job is really motivating me, and that's also that's always to team, that when you wake up in the morning and you are happy and feel excited to go to the office, that's where you love your job.

So, so for me, it's the motivation the besta better than what what I've got to the other I'm going to work to meet people, because I've got to come up

with certain ideas and I have a team that I can talk to or I'm just about there, there's team member who came to me, but why not we do this? I think I have a good idea. Do you want to listen? And that kind of

excitement, that's something that's that's quite that's about my time and get me my teammate, there's a lot more than, there's time. There's a message. Mudda-mudda-huh, what we're doing. What's the time we're doing, it's been a manpowerat.

And we're ah-harap that, what, what, Namasabah I'm notepard can something that'shaven so that's need to be able to be able to be able to be able to

support that's that's given also never padame so we can't we can't work can't work, can't do you

before before to make life finance it to make so much more fun, more complete, more more than, more than can make make

the more than more progress, and then to be a lot of maybe that. Maybe that's the heart of the way. Thank you. Thank you.

Tremant, that's, Irwan, Disnabudi, the pinnion of genius. Thank you. This is,