Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Jalan Panjang dan Sunyi Saintis

Episode Date: September 8, 2023

Gita Wirjawan bertemu dengan 3 ilmuwan Indonesia dari 3 benua yang berbeda untuk menjawab 3 pertanyaan besar nasional hari ini: Ke mana bangsa ini harus mengarah? Bagaimana mengobati pemahaman investasi pendidikan yang salah kaprah? Mengapa kita butuh ‘diplomat sains’ dengan rancang pikir yang gagah? #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #Education Tentang Narator: Sastia Putri adalah Associate Profesor bidang ilmu Bioteknologi di Osaka University, Jepang yang sekaligus menjabat sebagai Ketua dari organisasi i4 (Ikatan Ilmuwan Indonesia Internasional). Haryadi Gunawi merupakan Associate Professor Ilmu Komputer di University of Chicago, Amerika Serikat yang juga merupakan kepala dari UChicago systems research on Availability, Reliability, and Efficiency (UCARE). Bagus Muljadi ialah Associate Professor termuda di University of Nottingham, Inggris, Britania Raya. Ia juga memimpin kerja sama lintasdisiplin antara UK dengan Indonesia sebagai koordinator di UKICIS (UK-Indonesia Consortium). ------------------------ Lengkapi Percakapan Ini dengan Bacaan Berikut: Rethinking the Education Mess: A Systems Approach to Education Reform (2013) Globalisation, Ideology and Politics of Education Reforms (2015) ------------------------ Risalah Episode Ini: https://sgpp.me/eps152notes ------------------------ Berminat menjadi pemimpin visioner berikutnya? Hubungi SGPP Indonesia di: [e-mail] https://admissions.sgpp.ac.id https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: Daring Entrepreneurs Wandering Scientists The Take Kunjungi dan subscribe: SGPP Indonesia Visinema Pictures

I'ma'a I'maum of the National for the President, to get up to the same with president, to gettas the problem of the practice which is real-am of the science, like pollution, like, if,

if we're the biggackan and leaptive and lapar. When I think there's a top-down support, I think, there's a top-down support, there'spore-diaspora that that's not to do you know, but that's the bus but it's the way,

the bus it's just to make, then the diaspora, you know, it could join bus, but if it's just to make bus, that it's, it's, it's, it's, it's too, that it's really, we're gonna' end-end-end-kind. We're being to get fast-return. Sementarer, research, research and development, it's never fast-return, and there's many

So many of investas, but we're not starting to think, to invest, yeah, not can't ever we're moving. This is end game. Hello, my. I've had somepathed several times to say how education is very important. Not only for our kids, our own people,

but also for the interests, and the country to the one of the metric that's one of the one that's that's been didic the other than because of the

this is a manifestation of our capacity of our our, our age, 15-town in context proficiency

BASA and also proficiency STEM. But it's still is quite quite the number-one from 78thagre that be used. This is a small from how we're making up to becky

on the education stem, in particular for Indonesia to the front. It's been correlates with system the system of the system of the in the system of the school, whether or not that's the school dasar, that's school that's high, that's in Indonesia. Now, tentunuch, we also have to be able to be on how we can't make sure we can't make

make it, not only in the land, but in the world. Some of the other people, I've also sent to say, In the world, representation Indonesia, it's quite very minimum. In America, in Australia, in Japan, Korea, Southan, Tyeongk, Europe.

In the Webbergen, and bermutu, in Masting, in Indonesia, representatisiness, small, in America, the contorn,

it's not more than 8,500, dbundingkan 400 to 450,000 representative from in the Hongk, about 200,000 from India, 150,000 from Korea Southan. If we're going to English, representative of Indonesia,

it's not more than 4,000, to be bandinginging 200,000 from the Hongk. Now, if we cupas, this is more, just, much, I'm quite quatircan in context STEM. I also I've also I've got made some of the same about

that I'maic-a-sdegraise in stem in America's in America, in 2001, that's not more than 82 people from Indonesia. This is annawis that's very big, or the kind of,

but it's very small, d'ambindinkan the number that from our time from from five, India,

2005, 500, Korea-Seltan, 130, Turkey, 4,500. This I'm a raseerouser from how we have to make sure about we needy on the Indonesia and in

the world, but also how we have to can't be in STEM, or science, technology, engineering, and mathematics. This is important because I'm looking and the world,

it's much more much more than you if you're much be more than what's one, of the capacity of the world to be dunging but the two is metric that

can be made make sure as how the of the people that can can't science

and science is very correlations with and the people-pentingat-pact-productivist. Now, we're in episode that's about this with the time of the United States. Astia Putri, who has been given a position tenured

at Osaka University, Baguars Muliadi, who also is a tenured professor at the University of Nottingham, and Hariadi Gunawi, who's a tenured position to the University of Chicago. Sasti, gnajave, gnazure biotechnology, good, gnajure, in gnazum,

as a lot of common, and Ariadhi, gnajahe, gnajure science. In the conversation, I, and they're not so much, because they're or will beaumptain or about how we're about we're not only

can't even quality of the country, but how we can do that work with collaboration with institutions where they are but how we can

also how we can make up representations of the people in school, school at Coolein, in Chicago, or in Nottingham, And so much episode

this episode is a bit more than episode that's quite important to the importance of our own people, and end up to the end up to the future. Thank you. Thank you for everyone. Pleasure for having us. We're just

we've got to be able to bea about the penitain of the education. I'm going to start with Shastya, this topic we can't allowringed to where, but the panang of you that's about epistemology, how do you know, in Indonesia, how to we can

be more than epistemology, asthmology? So, if I'm in Indonesia, we're, we're not in numbers, yeah. Numbers of specialists and experts that make wussay one of the other

important to drive innovation, drive the technology to be able to beapplication to make make make make the problem and Indonesia, and Indonesia, in the global map,

as a key player, because because we're capacity SBM's not making number that critical, in order to drive that kind of innovation. But, you know, you know, you're,

intinion with a bit of with a problem science, and, and, and, the, and, for the way, yeah, yeah, can't be more,

it's like, to the dimensioning this, that's how, so, so, that, so, good day, that, for the people and,

and, and, how they can doy-d-d-d-d-d- to be doy-un, to be-lac-lis. First, time,

people, the, Mastew from the people, from the people from the people fromchrane, and menopoo career in the bidang science, it's not a lucrative job. So, it's not a lucrative job. And we're going to be able to work in a journey which is true. some people, and even people,

ideology, idealism, to be contributely-contribusically to contribute-capacarance for the greater good. But, how many people that's like that, if we want to talk about numbers and we want to talk about significantly

increasing the numbers, that this has to be a lot of promotion that massive for we can be increasing the numbers. It's how much, we have to make uphapes, that's not only about, but it's essential.

It's ultimately necessary. Yeah. The country, without science, without technology, not can't be survive. Not can't be resists. And, and I'm still,

in level jargon. Not really, there's, I mean, one, the, I mean, fundamental,

can't make, of the way of the from the basican to make up to make sure to be a scientist one day because it's a very, very important, essential, and it's a lucrative career in the future.

So, from the first, minate that has had, and the last, penerapan also has had. If we want to ignite their passion towards science, after that, we have to give upsy, options career that's lucrative,

that's because of science. they know what they're going to do after they graduate. They're going to be able to have a good living being an academic. Now it's not like that in Indonesia. Or the kind of the political culture in the room ofonga is. Yeah, right? How much? Epistemology is, Pa, Pa, can,

how we know what's the right, from what is the wrong. Physicology, and that's why it's about the level in a in a world, especially in the the people of the people, to make up to make sense of the factis. I've got to come here, a little ill,

because the the airing is a gototor. This is a few days. I'll look comment on the Yeah, yeah. So that's a problem practice that then

people are people how we're going to And the other than the scientific. How much the way that we modelled pollutant dispersion, the city, how we how we can't give uptoe that has been a different carbon sinks and all.

What we can look in Indonesia, in the capacity when it's exposed to this is not the or, or the the or the the omans who are people who are talking or the people who are about the world of the word.

This is a problem scientist. the problem of the issue, it's about scientific. So we have to put up the thinking scientific that's what kind of thing is that's what kind of thing that's a policy that's based on a experiment,

the policy, the thinking that's based skepticism, the policy that not be conclusive 100% like that. Now, if in English, when the pandemic, which is critical events.

In the chief medical officer is the professor of University of Nottingham. Namely John Bantam. He said, he has authority scientific in the backer. I'm a doctor, I'm a medical doctor, I'm a professor at the same time.

So public knows that for everything that gets stated in the public that there is a scientific underlying behind it. There are credible papers behind it. So this is a wake-up call, because polusie is a precursor of the more climate change and, and all the

much, and Indonesia has fashy, which is sustainability, which is all the problem scientific. So I see Japan leading in bidang in the bidsang that's siftainable, the U.S. started to talk about it, the U.K. start to talk about it. What we've tried to talk about it,

is, about that's about that, but also, about the institution will be together. We're able to work for their collaboration so,

reset, it's going to to make up the problem that's that's interdisciplinar. Massa that's not disreselisectan,

only a mechanical engineering, epistemology of mechanical engineering, what? It's not even sure to solve all the problem, So this is there's a dialogue, and not only academicism, I'm going to look at the UK

there is the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Science. In Indonesia, there's Academy of the Unitsynoboan Indonesia, Academy of Illum One Muda Indonesia. They have to start taking the lead role, they have to talk with policy makers, they have to advise on behalf of scientific community, what's the new epistemology moving forward? Okay, okay.

At least, how much. We know, we have, we're talking about about bigot, people of Indonesia who's lullus, with as three, restem. Yeah. Yeah, and,

in 2000, in, than, Hongk, 6,000-an, India, 2,000, Korea-Slatan,

130, Turkey, 450, Ghana just, just ina on the other than 8. Now, this is one, challenge is for the number two,

it's gonna be able to do not even that's still how much how it's to be inter- or multidisciplinary and

what you because you're because you out from from computer science just not just

but how you want to you want to do you do you, So I'm just like that. Yeah, can I agree with what is Shastya, Mas, Magus,

you're gonna... Lugue just like, you three. Usia, the long- of the more, yeah, I think, story's a long- I'm just,

I'm just a little just, there's a powerful, yeah, I think, in, uh, and,

and, I think, in the, academia, I think I'm not so many of global, information, opportunity in other than I'm going to but I'm going to be, but I think, maybe,

maybe, but, I think that, I'm going to be it's time open information, open source, open data, I think everything is searchable in Google, even live in academic, maybe in Japan,

in the U. in U.S., I think, I think, I think, I think, I think, there's been many a lot of

online, so, I'm not, I'm talking I'm not, I'm talking, I'm there,

there's maybe basic question, I'm, you know, in America there's research about microcontroller,

not, that's true, I'm not, but in my hearty I, that question, you could find

the answer by Googling it, So, I think I think maybe I'm just maybe in the first of the we always need to try to prepare two or five years ahead

like from structural, administration, like individual, and, and I think we need, we have to make, all the questions

that we want to answer, we keep adding to our list and maybe a day. termed atomic habit. Just spend every 15 minute habit. Google, YouTube, any questions you have. I think over one year everybody will have the knowledge. So, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, so, I mean, I mean, I mean, information,

there's, really, and, um, really, and, um, If we have dream, to Japan, to the U.K., to U.S., to Australia, to good schools, right? I mean, I think the information is out there. And we have to have to be able to find a job, sometimes. How, how do? For the,

in Indonesia, to really, really rampant to understand that the pola-pickr open source, that can gongong the next-d-d-d-d-d-despan

Because not one just in Nottingham, not one just in Chicago, not one only only justly in Osaka. Yeah, but there's, shooker, super, 25 in Chicago. 25 in Chicago. I mean, you guys are exceptional. Yeah, right?

But how do you know, to scale? Because we, if we look at people from China, South Korea and other than... like it's kind of... kind of... ...ingaling really, who?

Yeah. Yeah. If I'm not I'm like I'm like, it's very, yeah, the culture that's very very low,

literati, I'm gonna be able to. But it's very fundamental. In Japan, they're very much they're just from little, it's,

yeah, the, my, my son, from system pediccan Japan, it's

very integrated to come to come to come to know. Before before ask, yeah.

Charitahue before ask you is a but I think that's why, because we're just because we're just to, and then you're doing, so,

it's being, it's about, we're saying by Mashar, we're, we're, then, then, then, not be filtered, because,

because basic knowledge to filter analytical thinking, to process information, it's also under, in- the era that's very much information that already has

disampaign, some of the information can we can get-can, but if not can't be churna, in process, inalisa, and finally in synthesis, information that is not going to be a lot. But, but you know, Sass.

Anak-a-olde, because you're merangul, buddhae Baca Bucco. So, you know, gnazarin annaw into Baca Bucco. If you're not put up and you're undergantung-a-gut-you-a-court, or what, or what? Massey, can't be a reason.

Yeah, BASA, can. Yeah, Biss. Because, because, because, if, if, you know, that's not only in school, while in the people, in the community, it takes a village to raise a child, so, it's actually, we have to have system

that's set to be able to to be inundraiseries depot-monging, it's a little bit too late for generation that's just pentas, but... Yeah, because it's mined,

if, if, if, if, if, people, that's in the d'u-darsar, not the d'u-d-d-dus, We're still, we're still to make. We're still a little bit too late, but if we bit too late,

I think, 2,04-5 we have bonus demography that's good, ganty not it's getting bonus not just to be bonus, but it's be a beban, so how we need to be able to, now.

I'm going to, I think, I want to make my son my son my book calculus. My son is not back book Calculus, Mycatea two of eight-torn

six years ago. He's not much. He's about. He's about a story. Yeah, of the U.K., yeah, the case of the UK, that. But he, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, but, he's about ethos,

with picker, we talked, scientific thinking. It's instill the cultureaner to the child not from the book of the book of thechara, but from the book about kisah. In the UK, even in the U. the U. the U.S. The U.S.P.S. 4.6.

So, that's, right. So, that, he's from the kids from about it, he's about it. Maybe from there, to be motivated, and all that. That's from there. It's from there.

Indonesia, is the gudang of the story, so, but I, but I've been, to look at all right, it's to use to look atos from a lot of the people. Because, the people who,

um, people who are indonesia-can-a-hatt-can-bark-a-hattie. The story, it was very powerful. At least, we talked about giving people. Ah, and, the kids are dowsa, they're giving to the other country, can? What's-in'all-nug-n-negri,

really, to make sure of the for masahalan backa. Yeah, right? Right, can there's

some of the that can't have comparative advantage, can get an economic benefit,

can be leading G4 countries, all that much. We need expert, like that I, Maasasas, it's just

small cock in a big machine. But, permasalal of business We have a special forces of Indonesian scientists. Let's say in 2024, we need a hundred, a thousand, maybe a million. But these people need to be trained to specifically target specific problems.

And problem this is interdisciplinary. Maybe they can be able to group of Mbatsati, I've got to talk about biotechnology in there, maybe to talk about computer science. But what's the problem what is that? Oh, oh, about geothermal energy in Indonesia. It's a memongueuette, mongueductor science.

Oh, masala biodiversity that's even goodangyed in Indonesia. Mara, I'm from from Macassar. Walasea, it, that is a cicalbacal-bacal-Darwin theory, it's adorned in Indonesia to be the Middle East. In T.T.B., in Macassar, Mahara, and all of all. But we've been mucyvatiate it.

Because, back again to epistemology the way of the way that's just sporadic just you know, or not, or give him, or give him, or you know, there's some of the people who are some of the people that's the problem that's what is what is the way,

the vision is like what, the biggarten, the inter-teamentrietya, that's what, that they can't be able. That's like that. If there,

if there, And so, like that. But they're not got to get a good. If I can privilege just, that's, good, I'm not much, that I've got. But if they're given a good, but if they're given a new

narration, the big of agenda that and all instruments in the backhand and I'm that can be able to be able to be able. I think of the story of each one

to, Ipe that episode that IPA too, okay-bucked-again, you know, common denominator of you, that's it. But how much... Semester first, if I'm back, because... Sama, same time. It's not so much.

Same, same. Same, commentary on the way. Same, but how much can't get from there, right? But how can't be back from there. So, we're kind of... ...terjurmous or terpojok in a sense of hopelessness. Yeah. Yeah, right?

But if we can't be that's about that's about that's about that's we can't be it out of the way that's how much. Yeah. If I'm about the same, I think we are influenced by our environment. So, sometimes we put ourselves with roommates room-made, room-ed that 4.0 GPA, right? Or with scientific science.

If I think that's 2.7. That's something that's 4.0. So, so back again, we're going to come to scale, I think, I think, when we talk about a diaspora that's already in America, but we're, to scale, maybe, has to make power of two, right?

From two, from two, from, from. but-mogamoga, but I think, but I'm going to be able to be able to look at. So, maybe the environment of their, they're not looking at, what opportunity, opportunity that there, in the world, there. Tentuantu, that's said, information is there, but it has Google. So, again, it's extra effort, that's. At the end of the day, I remember, maybe, back in the days,

that I'm in 2007, I know, a lot of the same to America, but if you're not a lot of the same, I'm not a lot of people, just to come, right? So at one point, when the information that's, standard, should galley, and other than, so we'll reach certain skill

when we, yeah, we're, the, it'stelan, a lot of schizue, like, in a positive way, but I'm not in a positive way, but I'm juster, to talk, to get into, we're going to,

we're going to, we're going to, we're talking, like, about, like, about, from the government, and we're,

I'm optimistic, because I've seen from the last 15 years, like, I think we're going in the right direction, although I'll be, you know, slowly.

but I think I'm in the right direction. like that's like that's about that's about I'm not geteming the same, like a number of PhD students in STEM in US based on country from 1960, 70, 80, 90, 90. We can't look, you know, for example, Tyeongk, how much, to something, right? That's like that's kind of from a certain top-down support

regardless of course other political issues but there's a good top-down support. I think these days, you know, miscellaneous, you know, investment in AI machine learning, right? It's clear a top-down support. I think when I think there's a top-down support, I think, back, again,

many diaspora, that, of course, to do you can't help but, but the the way to the bus, the government, then the diaspora just to join the bus, but if you know, it could join bus, but if it's just to do you make bus, yeah, it's,

it's too, uh, it's a bit, I think, yeah, that's one element for, skill. I want to get point point, point, yeah, that's how much, not a country that's in a lot of small, we're in a number four or five.

Spentar like, too, yeah, 22 years again. For example, for the kids who are who still on cartoon network. Yeah, right? Why not be making just? Copassus, copassus, special forces. Yeah, right?

But is, yeah, yeah, we've got bimbelin just, I'm just. I've been bimbleen it's about, yeah, I'm going to beambling that one of the people, every year. Yeah, right? For the country with 280 million,

I think it's not even, like, not-ne, yeah, yeah, how much percent of one-juta is learning biology, computer science, physical, and, and, and, and,

but, but, but, but, but, but, but, Structur, right? Yeah, right? And this, and this is probably

political leadership not only in the but in the all the ecosystem, even in the room-tangue. Right, right? Right, right?

Because, if not, not, not, I honestly think that you are in position that to put in the to menugue can to the

because you've proven yourself, yeah, To be able to position that, which I'm not just from KRA can't be in each of each other's kotak. And, yeah, masa you can't.

Now, the way, I've been saddened again, I'd even, I'd maybe make time to be sure that what I've done that's allahed

and I've been three months. Yeah. How that? I mean, from experience. I see. Thank you. I've got it's about IPK that, Paaqa

2.69. I've got to 2.7. Why? Why you peckykeg? Yeah, that's because I'm at TB. If I'm at home. Atty, happy. No, but...

But it's an important question. How do you view these students? Indonesia, the people who want to bea from it out of the compotency new people in Indonesia 245

into G4 economy they're going to get upasitans it because it's one of three pillar knowledge-based economy career of knowledge orangy

but they also also be looked as agents for knowledge exchange that pillar the two knowledge chain that. Selan the

university that's that's just three pillar knowledge-based economy people who's people's going to be able to be

there's been back in the there's discussion about BASISO, LPDP, Ska. Number one, I've taken contract as a contractual adult, has beenepatting the contract. If you're not a lot, it's a problem, not a problem ideology,

it's a matter of consenting adults respecting contracts. But my point being, learning from the Chinese, they're from the Chinese, they're probably, they're also, I'm just, I'm giving people, I'm a juta-an, who's-a-boggling,

not back to the money, they said. But now, they are the greatest superpower outside the U.S. and North America and Europe. So, so it's the problem that is, that's, it's a problem of investment. I think of investment. I think of it. There are some of it, though, there are some of the position, so that they can be able to make sure that. Womong about jambatopan, diaspora even now,

uh, uh, and it's like the time. The power of, it's been the gembatian to be able.

Forkemen in Indonesia to be sustainable, it's not we can, this I've been this superman effects, that's superman complex.

We're not we're going to Indonesia, a person, Diri, to get, You know, you know, that's not that's very much, I'm just a small enough.

I'm just a small cost. But, collaboration that's sustainable it has been in situational. So, the diaspora this has be able to make up insiductions, even in where they're there, even in where they're there

to be in between to India, from to Chile, from Mexico, from whatever, it has to be able to it, that's the part of it.

Now, if this guyang is about about Indonesian government shipping in. That's just a sustainable. So, I'm going to Indonesia, many of us today. I'm going to Makasar, to IPB, to UGM, to many,

or PEM, many, I'mma, I'm making the nuth nadi with the recan-recan this so, so that's about what to what,

to come on the where we're going to comepul-unuchities in the U.K. so that they can't give them in the U. the U. the U.S. The U.S.S.S.S. We have given the U.K.,

that we're making contributions. The Indonesian government responded very nicely. They put $44 billion to fund Indonesian universities to collaborate with the U.K. We don't take the money at all. But we dictate... The issue has to be Indonesian interest. Maka is the diaspora parano is also.

So, institutions, institutions in the United States. I'm not going to get into EV. I'm not yet yet about EV. But there are universities in the UK that's not in the UK that's not. Now, if the jembatan more and more stable development. So it's like that. And they're who's going to be given to where. Because the jembatan's already there.

Oh, if biotechnology, like Osaka just a science, the point of the same thing, like, yeah. Like that's one of the first department, you know, I was the first Indonesian student. Now, Indonesia number one, from the number one, the number of students who are

in the department. You're now, 19, yeah? 19, 10, 10, 10, 10, the entire of the people, Indonesia. So that's I'm from there's from that I'm from that's I'm going to ask, because I'm asking

to Dekka, SITH, Prof Niemann, from, more than stay in there to be making $10, $100. 100. So that is one of strategy to to make the jumbla that more.

We don't, not have 100% pullang, we need to be a agent, it. It's also to be a hub. It's also to

to be a printis. You can't be it? You can't be it? For the people Indonesia who are like you're inhurt? Oh, maybe. Maybe so.

Maybe. Maybe. So, that's it. The only thing is, maybe, it's not, maybe, it's not,

too, for people, people, being, different, people, Japan, even,

more, but they're there's there to make up. But, but, that it's

realistic for 100 of people, even because, people, because because because because basically the cultured

but if you're in the country that's not even when I'm saying we're thinking I'm using to musier out of Indonesia but just true if there 100 people are gnajured it can be 10,000 people people aregiansia d'ajaroid and

can't and be able to build the country. But that's like I was said we always be thinking in the jump-pendek we're paying to get fast return And research, research and development, it's never fast return. And there's many so many investasies that's not back.

But if we're not starting to think, to invest, yeah, not can't ever we're moving. Taddleing from experience. China, it's kind of a bit of a time. They're not tibanking, it's not even being, banged universities in class dunia. We've seen, why they're going to give it to the world. Because to be trained,

to be able to make a university class they're not people who's ever work, ever career, ever been on how can't how can't be able to university class of the community is like how, how can't be able to be able to be a student, better enough

as a student, better than if we're in university and be contributed to society as an expert, that Now, they're like, boyonging up, and they're gonna'n't even give so many people to out of the other

because university's, the ecosystem is already. There's two steps. Bucan just, give people, but there's one process that's really that's really

starting thinking long-term, because we can't be able to reinvent the wheel, to make program Pendek, then 5 years then again make again again then in the titic that fundamental not ever going up

improved or upgrade you know? You know, or you see, that process mendidic in Indonesia to be tregebuck with process politic? Oh yes.

Oh yes. And, mon-mav, we, we're not ever to go about about about politics, but this for the I'm going to say, because, because of the people, because if you're just a lot of people,

if you're in the process that cyclos in the per five years, it's difficult, can? How, who's who? I will have to say first that I vouch for it. It's very difficult, for it's very difficult, for a person, not only people, to be resett in Japan. Very little rector of oneita in Japan. This is, really gila, this is really?

Compared to, even Indonesian has to, at TB, U-U-G-P, you're really a role model for my daughter. And the culture of Japan, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, ag-a-a-a-sureistic. Yeah, right? Yes, agag-ag. Yeah, right. Yeah, uh, uh,

I was, about politicization, yep, education, politicization reset, yeah, and higher education. I'm very

with the counterparty Yeah Reset management the U.K. that's one of the one that we want tolarking, while there's not just reset

corroboration, but the whole ecosystem can be able and be toldack that's bad. In U.K. For reset, I don't know if Japan

and in America, but it's the same in America. Pembery-dana reset the result of the resets, that's what's going to where the research is what, that's what,

it's different, that's the basic, the essence of democracy, this is there. Democracy is check and balance. Okay. UKRI, UK Research and Innovation, it's not making research,

they just pegg the debt. Who's doing research, and everything, and other than, Indonesia to where, I'm not the UK that's good, because in China not that's not that, and success.

Chinese Academy of Science is judge jury executioner. Okay? So, can't success, not? It's just. But, we're in the country what? That's the point there's there.

That's the question of ideological that's the answer. If we're consens with democracy, then politicization, research, and the government is very rent if there's not, if there's check and balance. In the UK, I'm on a pejorative

I'm a prerogative university I'm going to be director that prerogative universities in Indonesia there's a little bit conflict of interest because the way you progress through the academic ranks

is determined by the central government is a good, is it good, is it's not true with context in English English, it's, university has just a little. Indonesia, universities

there are 4,000. joplan the quality of the it's not, that's true. that's true. Central government control, perhaps

useful for the Indonesian context. But we have said that not it's not much, like, like, Turkey voting for Christmas

that, for academia, to insured to insured can allow that the fact that different with,

with incentive their themselves when they in the university, because career they're going

to bring money and control. So, so that's it's like that's like that's like that's there's a new-day-year-olde that's all the time, so there's grand narrative that not diggug-gugat, while the Prime Minister or B. Orpheedanee-a-ganty, or the Presidenta-ganty,

then we can't make a slow process. If you want like an authoritarian government, make a change now, it's fine. Do we want a president for a lifetime? Maybe. I don't know. I don't. What's the one of the which is the idea

as a ideology is as a potocracy. But they're bullet since 8, 7, 79 med democratization talenta. Yeah, right? Yeah, right? So, meritocratisatisical talent. So, it's the intersection

power with talenta, it's it's just a paradox. It's about what's been about the Hong Kong. Many of the country who have made democratization talent, right? Just true,

make autocratization talent. Yeah, right? Or, meditocratization talent? That's right. Yeah, right? How, Har?

I got a more, this, yeah? Yeah, I'll chat a bit. It's really, because we've been about, I think, term, term, ideology, philosophy, yeah. I'm... We can't talk about it, too, too. It's too much. So, so, I'm too.

So, so... So, I think, too, to pragmatic, because, I think, Pa, we mentioned copassus, yeah. So, if we're, in general, copassus, can, the, bimbingan-beladier, yamong to beaing up, right?

the idea, the same way, right? So, all the same way, we have to be able to put up, so in the way, we're not, right, maybe, basic skills, yeah? Deep science, right? But at the end, to, to be success, each of those copassus, maybe there's, there's a sniper, right?

For example, specialized. Right? Right, or, again, bomb, diffusing bomb, and, and, and, like, and, like, and that. So that, that's that's a generalization, that's a role of the government to, like, yeah, just push everybody can English, everybody can basic science, and other than,

which I said, about bimingan, but I think I, I think we're talking per area, specialization, this is the role in diaspora, and I'm the first, and I'm the,

this, this, this, abat-bate-cape-cape, like you're gluing everybody, so yeah, like the clueling everybody is the slagherly how much because we're doing with UK. Because of the UK, maybe better than US,

with Japan. So, it has specialization of the country, and especially specialization area. So, yeah, which, that I also said, if we're not able to specialization, but we have bureaucracy,

policy, in the dalam person, is generic and we can't be able to scale, we can't make sure, even though, how much to come to cellar to computer science. When we had, we've talked even in computer science, term-macto, in area, uh, uh,

there's sub-sub-idang, right? That I, what I told it was to tell us, to to machine learning, to systems, to theory, that's the other than, it's better again. So, so back again, that we're... when we're...

...thaticata, maybe, uh, politicization, or bureaucracies, maybe that's... So, there are certain policy that's made same,

so, so we can't get specialization that, or it's skill, to specialization, it's specialization. That's what I'm, that I think,

but, But when we talk about bureaucracy, I'm kind of pinpoint problem's, because when we're all good people, but maybe because bureaucracy is the is it's the way, there's group that want to move, but maybe group other not supportive, maybe there are issues, right?

But both sides, all sides are actually, I feel like they're good people. But because there, I've said, there's a lot of the same. Yeah. You know, enough, uh, uh, dispute and other than other than others. Okay. Let me pick up on this. Yeah.

If we're, if we're so much down, it may take a long time. Yeah, right? And, you know, that's a lot of, that's not that's not down approach. you've got to have democratization process and I think that I'm going to

know this, sadder, that to get tenure at each masing universities that is near impossible yeah, right? And you have achieved this. Yeah, right? And you, you know,

not terjebac with bureaucracy or politicization. You're out of that's out of that's out of that's out of that's out of it. How much more than we're going to come from jubakable, that's upcure-sukur, that this can be bebeang in positive, top-down approach. But I'm rejuke to what you've got to be able to be able to 80% of the pennaan for S-3 in America for STEM. that's from the institution.

the education, not from the government. So, that's it's about optimism for anyone who's people, and I'm not

looking at Google, minate book, minathele, to be able to get the penanaan. This,

this, if I'm thought, I'm partaking, then we can't be copassusk with,

with the leadership that there in you, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

I'm more than I'm as good. we've got to say that we've got to stability and predictability, whatever idea that's from the table from over, gawbril, it's been to becettled, over and over and over. The point is, we're always coming back to idea the last, the last the last, abasanaanagan-ableness that.

Abis it's the same, in the same way back again, back again to the idea, one of the same thing in Japan is a sense of stability to be an amazing. Yeah. Ecosystem that's stable,

and certain, and predictable. Barrow, we're from there we can make long-term plan. Tantpah, everything is going to be up, oh, yeah, mood point, that's, it's, it's, it's, it's just, it's nother again. Now, who's what can make one system that's stable in,

that's one. is about, on, if we're on, that's the stability that is still-in-as-in-sulid in the program-program-programme that can't be-cuted, as far as-constitutional, or we're from grassroots initiative.

For example, it's from, from, like, academicians, form, like, like, like, like, like, society, we, we're, we're,

we're, going to be a system that, the sort-term. If, that's not even if it's not even if it's it can be able to be made up to bementhacked or completely gone and make again program that's new again, five years, ten years

and we're going to be around in a place. This is, I have a natural story, yeah. If you're under-bbing 100 people in Indonesia, I have put a keyakening, top-downing, it will be a good, right? Yeah, right? Because people, right, right, right, right, because, yes, hashtihani, can't be able.

I'm going to be able to beaming 50% to 100. Then, and then, then, he's bimbing 50% 100th at the University of Chicago. And he, the target of the 100. Bagous, to bimbing 100 people Indonesia. I don't know how much the al-lurin it's, if each-mash-mash-a-oh, I've got to beaming

100 people in Indonesia each other. So, that's bad. Policy will follow. Yeah. I agree with that. We can't. We can't.

Right. Right. Don't. Engap, reme, contribution from a person to be not.

I mean, I mean, but I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. But, a person individual.

I'm a person individual. I'm, there's a great power. There's absolutely real power. The saljuice is there's when I'm not sure you know that's

when I'm notucing I'm going to be using the United States when we're here in Makasar, Jawa in the so much in the They're notarinderset. They're in there.

That's power. So, that's power. So, that's power. So, we can do work on the non-traditional academic, especially. Not only to respond opportunity that's already, but also,

menciptaking opportunity baru, by the bidangan. I said, I said, I said, I, in consortium that we said,

Yuki-u-u-u-u-u-u-dh. In Indonesia, there's a lot of the Ui-D-P, and the issue of Indonesia. It's automatically men-khan the government-ingris, to make-matching contribution. So,hubungan with

the important-in-Norin-Nor-Nusia for the whole-Urouped. That's a winning game. Influence and and pershabitance and the country that's-a-hurtangue, it's much-a-lars.

Dosen in English, in Indonesia, that's in Indonesia, he's not only because of the people of nothingham, it's own. Right now, this is the university of Chicago, it's so. When they're looking at us, Indonesian, no, they're British entity.

Yeah? So, when we're in there, we can do things that's traditional, foreign policy, bureaucracy cannot touch. Because they're not part from the British. But we're part of it. We're trying to move the interest Indonesia in there,

so that soft power Indonesia is more macken increased. Lewet diplomacy science. Diplomacy science is new, which I've already from the fact that. I didn't know. I've never been thinking.

What I was doing? What I'm doing democracy? Diplomacy. At the Uki-chis, the Ui-chisdivet, from the two-belahed-pihar there, because the issue is bilateral so, God knows,

in the past we can emulation of things more than in the scale global. So, so, this is very, when we're going to when we're atympa

from different, benua and other, like, and the approach is better So I'm as much as much as much more than you can't, even if I'm a good government. In US, I can't be able to go to that.

It's very faculty driven. Very bottom up. Faculty makes the choice. Individual faculty makes the choice. So, so the approach that I've never said, this very bottom up, so,

So, like, like, like we say, if I'm being people, not even though, actually. Many people, faculty, faculty, in the top 100 universities, you could reach out to them, right?

Anybody in the world actually could reach out to them and say, hey, I'm going to work same, so. So, so, I'm going to be able to make it. It's really, it's hard for every country

better, set up, every bit of better, but that, that's a part of our to, to scale, to be specialists, specialists, that. Then I also, I also, I'm, I'm thinking, oh, I'm talking about scaling, yeah. Tentu, we can, let's say, without, let's say, without the help-down and, and, and, and,

we can scale, but skilling the scale-ne-cape-capean. It's the way. I'm like, back again, people who's quite pragmatic, pay attention to detail strategy. Yeah. Conto, we're going to, why not many

students who can't get STEM-EST in America, back. Back, back, expertise I, on the computer science. Because, to be in-out-

to be class class class, it's, to do you, two-time, 20-jmper-ming- to that's in to that's in to see, to be it's in top 20, to top 20, top 20, Berkeley, that

maybe it's a lot of reason. So, if we pay attention to those details, we need to puto policy like, MbKM, because what I see what I saw 20-20-tallon alu, not much, there's a lot to be able to be able to make sure in class. That's, it's been, it's been, givok, gila, gillan,

So again, so much of the law enforcement in America, I'm happy right? Now, right? Now I'm just copying, who's going to, ganti, ganti the government, ganti, I'm going to, I mean, the,

the nassif the students of the campus, how much, that's, they're, they're, can't be able to make Sks, in the world,

what, the, or, research and that's that's that's that's that's that's that's bantuan too much help from good hands, by the campus, back to the public for supportive of how's like that. If not, you're back again,

like I said, I said, you know, five, ten ten, ten, ten, that's a lot, you know, you know, you know, that's not-mobile, yeah, yeah, not, you know, at the end, time is a limited commodity, that, so, so, so, while-pent-it-it-it-o-y-y-y-y-y-y-o, you know, If they're on the same time, they have to be at the same time, at the same time,

it's at one, and other, like, and that's, that it's very, and we need, I think. Yeah. A little about grassroots initiative, Pagita. Tadip, Pagita, we've given,

that individuals, contribution, is important. But wadah, also important. Now, we all the world the world of the world, it's the wordedat. Namanns, International,

I'm-4, we have people who are in each, massing regions, in the world global. So, and each,

massing, is very active, there individual, individual, and for we think to scale global, this is,

this is all people who are people who are making maximum individual effort, how we can be able

and amplify. So, so, this is, there, more than one, diaspora

we're about, back, sirs. There's each, each, ma'aminsing each of the part of each and active, active, we're doing the discussion. We have, we have organizations

in the Illum of Diaspora and we have members also in Indonesia. So, grassroots initiative collaboration is already where from 1,000 we can convince another 2,000, 3,000,

5,000 that are in there to want to be agbuck. Because not, not all the diaspora more focus to Indonesia there's really, there's focus to research

each and they're continue to career path in the not necessarily not much more to be contributory to work with Indonesia there's also

there's even there, we need always, get to make sure people, so that momentum that can't be there's real in.

Why, I'm saying demicion? Because, kind of, sometimes, when we're looking one problem

national from the camera global, It's powerful. like, like, like that's like that's problem about pervaliantsi

pre-diabitis that's big. This Indonesia, not sadar if this can be time bomb that way too. And effort to do make up again.

Not even macketka. Beto. That's not dessert. Beto. That effort's like it. Masting, each of the government has program

that's very good. But, not lintas kementerian. Tidipal. We don't even It's like, that's not has, the program that's in the Khamian,

misan di BAPANAS, with the Kementrientryan Ketka-Khena-Kan-Poomia. Now, kind of, we can't be able to be able to. And in-d-d-d-dolm, in-d-d-lap-a-lux. Because, what, name, sec-a-birocrasy,

so, so-it, that, Now, if we're in the work-sacemate, it's more lewess, more than glacial-inary, it's even more than interdispirnernered, that's one of the effort that I'm trying to work as a limoan from from the world, I'm going to ask the Comentrients and the same thing.

I'm going to tariff more than, you know, you know, I'm going to be okay, right, can, percapance, right? But if, if, the, if, you know, the, a lot of, the Indonesia,

how, that's the conversation? This ispora just for the caspara but in the same, but with the lawylamo that's been in Indonesia ever not did you're talking? Yeah, it's very intense.

They're just too. They're kind of, how we can't be connectcy, yeah. Sometimes, kind of there's got a gap for,

if they wantac people who have got to but we're not talking about, but we can't contact one database, database,

there's been there, there's a cuterbuck And just to the mission we need-itivatting, to the moment in which ishapingatimonesia in anywhere that's been made. Now, that's what I'm actually being manpowering people who are there,

wadhae, make access us, to make-a-cha-work-sama, and contribution response is very positive. So, in my opinion-saint-pons-positive this always, debina, who, and then-a-one-lety-a-lid-lid-liddering, And then it will be able to beapeuticcoulde how much the power this

can't be able to, what we've been able to make sure program jankingapalangang, and we can make sure the sustainability from program the program because it's going to be a lot, if the paracaping that's cool this is the grand really, not semestinely more great than there's in the other than the people. But if this isbub,

this is colam that can't give him, special forces, right? Now, this, if I'm not, if this is can't, if it can't be amalgamation or can be synergican and the two clompok in, which, long as there's an overbucka. Sering-kally, two clompok,

I don't want to bechara because there's a lot of the two-duechew-ne. Now, that's what I'm going to try to lookur. If, if there's a cuterbucka-upac-an, if this, if this ranking 10, this, this is the ranking 10, this is the ranking 10, but if this ranking 100, this is more than you can't be able to be able-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-could.

Now, I'm kind of, I'm kind of bingong. How about, so bet you're not. So, bet you're not going to beck the door that. Okay. There's gap culture, there gap communication, there's a gap ego, yeah? There's also, gap ego. Okay.

For example, before I was before I'm going to be, Japan is true true, Europe and America. I think of the other than countries that mayu that maybe more than Japan or setarra, why have to work with Indonesia. Polar thinking, maybe, in 2000,

yeah, at all 80, when Japan's much, when they're thinking that's more than we're more than we're more than we're, so, so, so, so, but not there mutual benefit.

Now, Now, Indonesia, so much to be able to beaute negotiate, we have mutual benefit. And that Japan, Japan, I'm going to start. I'm trying to try to repart can, let's make sure the potential of Indonesia. And we're

we're going to be a mitra that's very important. Untonging Japan and Indonesia, man, even is enough programs, program that's there's been jali. So, it's not too hard, so it's to ignite. But So that I'm saying is in Indonesia is to puto collaborative interdisciplinar, you

that, Paul, that's very, very very, communication because ego sectoral, it's and sometimes, if we're from But that,

silo, like that, abadi, from, from from from now. Selalue. Yeah, how we can

be able to make upbaping anything? I'm looking we're from out, make sure, and Ijacic,

participation, that response better than the other than than the other than from the other than so much that's one of the whole that's one of the way that we can we can't as

we're from outside, we're from agate participatory, look at the catamata global that one team, this we're in Japan in Japan we're interdisciplinar we've got practicemic we're working with

food tech, I'm working with human sciences, with also medical doctor in Indonesia also don't like the mentrion, it's about the mentrion that's about it, but it's barren, to we can't connectsically to, what we'll we can't beckxakan with the same?

Benang Marrashna how. In there, it's, ternia, mission that they're going to be really, can, but maybe don't be connected. I'm going to talk about it. That's point that good

It's very long-like. This is the world. Pat Gita talked about the interbukes. I'm going to to be able to. A little bit more, that's how business is done. Yeah. Okay?

Permasalalhanes is community is academic that not has constituency, not have a sound in politics. Okay. How many I'm in the law, sorry, Ms. Sasty,

can't, point that's it, yeah, right? Yeah, right? I'm, I'm, between communities, it's very important,

I'm, I'm, I'm, for the academy, for the people, to be able to and

pass' problem, practice, and, like that's like that's if you know how much of if you're nother Indonesia is a comparative advantage

that's very big from the country capulawan from the wayliang we're going to we're going to kiblet continental approach that's it's

it's being seen as a public Like that's about that's about that's about that's about that's about the way that's about how much, sootan bad a pangamaghan, it's still still it's still, it's still,

in Sumbawah, 20 years, it's, 20,000-lapang-bola equivalent of the because it's, it's doneing jagum. That is the issue scientific,

there, the, emigran that's small, that's that's agong in there will be upon the sociology that's about about it. Taddenakhani that's very important. All right, we have to know

narration, science according to Indonesia. I, in the way of the Bumuomi, begitaph, it's been putang much in the sultanan jokia, at Jawa Tawah, at the time that So, when

when the people were to Indonesia, the timeaned by ritualists, occultist, even the sultanan Joggi, to take

the place in the places in the where there when the concept of deterministic science like the human-bub-bub-it-

to belandasked seismology, and all-mach. People's javentocan, people, it's anitist that's a lot, where the dectonic is detact nafas.

Nairororok-Indol that is not a lot. He is a lot of it and it's own. There are porous relationship between the sultanan jokja with geological process. That this is chikal-bacal

of the the Imperial Ballylech, the Royal School of Minds. But the world's not know that. Because we're not... We're not... We're not taught that concept of the world is very much from Indonesia. People talk about medicine,

can't car barue. It's always... from where he got algae, who, who lived in the community in the same coral reef.

We're going to we talk about the new york, that's about the world. but the issue that's about nationalism, not issue, that coral reef, it's, that has to be partaking. Australia and Indonesia, that two countries that coral reef is

intact and bagelous. The new medicine comes from there. All research about bioprospecting, new medicine come from Indonesia. Issue about social studies, studies, Indonesia is a place where there are 700 B, NTTT, NTT,

that is a place where Austronesic language is there. It's very difficult to make multi-language in a stable political umbrella. I've ever said that Belgium has four-bathes

there, facum of the quacksan for several from two years. Why we can and we not not even but we don't know how much of the world, there's a lot of our own,

we have to be able to bejointed, we're not trying to concentrate on the land-based electric vehicles. We're not a country of the other than because of the power of the listric or short-haul domestic aircraft in electric. So, that's so-panseng. I'm so much. Sir right.

I'm right here. I'm again. I come from the bottom up in the detail, because it can't concept of well, if it's, if you can, if it's, if it's, that's in the world, that in the country, actually, the

thing of individual that, there. But, back, again, this I give a example of some, I'm I'm just has Astyam, Agus, there's bad, many of stories, but I give a example, yeah, in computer science,

we're going research collaboration, and I just visited one university in Indonesia, I said, Profile-D-D actually, we have funding, from the rectorate, to be able to

collaborate with, and now we've had, even with me, even with me, there, in other but but also the butchristy has the journal

and maybe in one time it's not how we work right? So, for example, we're in America we're somehow more to conference than to journal because conference prestige is more somehow historically, right?

So, long, yeah, the money that's not can't be to be it, not can't support you know, researcher,

that's, There's simple as simple as that. So, what I see is that so much like, the garingan that there, individuals individual's very besemanget, but back again, mentok-ment-tok-not-not-not-not-not-not-you-

policy that did-sejaharan to all-a-kind. So, no-ad-flexibility, there's, there-alien, I don't know, but this this is eight-tall-lough, like, same, that data-dana funding in computer science,

if we're in US, we're more of the US, to pay for the researchers'i. We're not really buy alat-alat-a-a-lapy, not like in Physica. I've been bicarate, I'm not know, but, for example, this is 8-town-lough. I'll ask, there's data, there's data, but why you're not to write a proposal?

They're like, malice. Because it's got to buy barang, And thenka, and we need to people, so, so, if we're not, if we're not, if we're not, until we're not, until the yam's stop, becook, besop, not going to be. If I'm going to, this. If I'm going to be able to, if you.

If I'm seeing, look, you're three, you, are the pendonging that's great, Yeah, right in each, each, each, from each campus. Daya tariffed you, it's, that's, now I'm going to ask, that's,

how long again, so, you can't beaming 100 people? I'm, I'm 25 years, there's a career, and the target, there's,

there's, so it's long-term, yeah, I've been, Nowh. So, it's about 8. Ah. And, I'm about 10-tahun-a-half.

Yes. Becerer. In one go? No, no. Because there's a cutterbatasance in Mentower. Because, can, the bidangy,

biotechnology, analysis, so if I'm ... And in 10-year And in 10-year about how can you

can you can clone to in Osaka? Now, in the department I'm in the department, I'm already, so, in the law enforcement we've got put

one assistant professor that's from, I'm from instance that's same, in Indonesia, and now, he's got to be a job.

In 10 years, how much? In 10 years? Five. Wow. It's damn good. There's five professors in Osaka.

Yeah. There's a lot. So, there. Four, Cewel, yeah. The department our department our isa just, we're just, we're just,

three. And two in the anterannation are people in the department in Japan, it's how, like, in Japan, it's not too being asing. But from two, di-antara-t three,

it's a very big progress. Very big, very big. Because from there, from there's been magnet to be attract people, to be drive collaboration with Indonesia. We're asked.

We need more, I think of this. You know, you know, people, yeah. While upon the back on one

time we're back on last, I think we're going in the right direction. I hope so. I hope so. So,

started many many programs program program, that's and other so much,

the computer science, the kuneing that's the only with other, but with the last one of the program if you're not wrong, in the initiative I, maybe every time I can't help in three that I'm in America. Now, this,

the time in December this, there's 25. So, so much. Yes, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. S2S2. No, no, not, not. Not, not, not.

We can't, we can't, we can't be absorbed so much. But, but, intingingia, people are many. We're talking, we're talking, we're talking about. But, but we're still. We're going to,

we're doing. But, but, but, yeah, yeah, yeah, in the, yeah, in the, in 10 years,

how? Yeah, I'm ag, yeah, ag, yeah, it's, it's, like,

make it, the, We said, we said that we said, we're in the same, uh, nine re-a-oh-a-oh, I think if we're from 80, we can't make sure, CECCEN, BUSA, right. Well, the bullet in the top.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Korea, 1,350, 40, but we're not able to be able to be. Yeah, but we back again, but back again, like, the narration that did, past Astia, as I was Agued, about, that,

Not even hampaned, we're also We're going to run again, research again from no longer. We're not. We're not, we're going to be to democratization this. With or without? Yeah.

That's important. If without, yeah, we're still still can't, we can't, there's sustenance, like, in this. So, this is in 10-year-old. Yeah, 100, can gole in 5.

For D. Yeah, don't. Yeah. Yeah, but not. 000 100 re-a-a-a-a-hour-a-a-a-a-oh-a-a-you-a-a-a-a-a-tall-a-a-a-a-a-old-a-a-a-a-tbear-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-tah-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-t intensely, I mean, I think I've got to-a-a-a-old. What, I'm wrong, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. So, 200-1-2-1-1-1-1-st, my-ttown, to program investigating, program S-thaglia. For the time.

For the time, they're going to abhorpe. Amen, amen. I'm sorry. It's not. Sal it. I'll hold you to it. Yeah, this is, I'll take you to it. Yeah, this is, I'm going to be.

Because the title is matemateekehawan-terapant. I've never said, I've never said, I've said, I've said, I've If we're at the pastrapolation, the methodology, yeah, that's the other than that. We make Indonesia doctoral training partnership to that's in Nottingham. There are 12 PhD students

from Indonesia, now, to be there website and the work on what you just, a part of it, I supervise. I'll give it a little how the supervision that be right. All students that have

been supervised by minimal two supervisors. Why? Because mobility in the UK is very big. I can't even go to Chicago, or to imperial or, if you're all that. What's it. What is what I'm saying?

What's the supervisor, he's the second, and then I'm going to go. That's a risk. So, there's risk. So, there's, so if we're getting looking,

like we've got infrastructure it's just so that's howlingham's now staff that's been soo supervisor that's already to be potential good students to come 100 is just as a bit as a bit of how far as far as the way that is

so that's actually, because infrastructure it's that's been made, the infrastructure that the art, alat it's been made, it's gottung, focus on what in the bidon what. So, if the plane can come to the UK, 100 will be because infrastructure but but because of the good but if I can't even

do put up, there's a little bit diplomatic that. What I'm imping can, it's, there are 100 people in English to be, or in HAN, or in HALS. That's inflexia. We're going to ask. Okay, in 10 years

can be what, that's good, in Noring. If we're looking if we're coming from now, it's a million. But I'm not sure. So I think that's nottingham is that's but that's really, but good for the bank.

Because Nottingham has got so good as a good in Chicago in the way, don't be modest. Yeah, but it's true, every university has bettered. There's strong point. Yeah, yeah, okay, but we shoot for the stars, yeah, we'll, yeah, we'll just,

we're just about the kisaping how. the two from three of the where I'ma, where I'm from the pinpinion of one of the university in Singapore. That's with banged in the story, he's about the men who got to men in Nobel. The payaheer whatever he facilitation,

and then I'm asking, you, you're target of the 20 to 25. Menang Nobel. B, be belied, from the world. And then, then,

if we're not like this, not like, organic, not can't be able to win the campus we're going to be able to be 100. Angupe-la we're putting 1 per per-tawn.

We're not, 100, we're not can't be able to 100-tall. I'm going to talk about santae, I'm going to be able to

go through. Because of $5.5. You've already like this. No. Bain, no, if one of one

rector at the university in Indonesia, that's been thinking like that. Do you envision that? We're really really peru break, yeah. Because now this, now, now, so, not too, it's not too much

to be with APBN, and there's many can, campus in Indonesia in fact, menentucked policy and hiring staff

their own, carry, someber dana that's, it's, there's system that, it's,

there, can't, but it's not, but it's not very, very important, and swastat, um, can't, there's, we're alight to education

that, even investasy business, manage as business-like perspective, and, like, in Singapore, in Australia,

it's, it's, the university denouy as money-making, entity, not to make-and-and-

just-and-a- just for education, for education, but that's in the money-making, profit-oriented, like, if like, if we're starting, we're going to start to thinking like a businessman, we're going to hire the best experts. Now, upaca, in Indonesia,

this is it can't evening to hire a dozen asing? Bapa, maybe, I think, there's rector asing asing, it's very about, docentang, docent, also in Indonesia, that's not. So I'm not. So I don't know. So I'm not so-systems,

for we're so progressive that. that's just as much, because there's a lot of the other than what you're in, what, now, the otheran that's very tight, so. So, even we just, Diaspora, to hire back to Indonesia, we're going to from from from,

Paul. No, there's system of the system that there, but when, past, in practice, many people who said, it doesn't work, just to level regulation, but,

but if we can't be implementation. Now, if we want to be progressive first, we have to look, apac we want focus Indonesia, and, making, make-regolah,

especially professional, business-like, where investations that's-bosurans, it's, because, n'n't, the, that will be able, and we're going to

control the university, is a good, to make suretaskan direction that's the way to make, we need, pa. Because, not binaw the two-douin'nia. If, if, if, all, universities in America,

that's all right-bias, that's all right, so, they're in-cuella-as-cash-a-business. Right, so, so, even, they incubate the university to go-hurt the best experts, bang-facilitas, accommodation,

for lecturers'ed, from the whole of the same, they're they're not come, same, Singapore more replication. Like that, he can hire people from the world, system it's them can't. Now, if Indonesia

want to be able to it, has to belegue the interbatassan that's there back. Maybe, rector, the d'Ongue in Indonesia has a progressive but, but,

that is visible? It's very not visible we're going to beguungu with so much peratura and limitations and penolaken too, being asing, it's very pentang. So how we're going to

be a pool of global talents if we're thinking global talents, it's not going to be able to be able to be Indonesia. That's like you know that we're talking before we're asking to the choir.

But there's but there's perkechalian too in the world, the name of India. IIT is been run. on a, what a, what a, what a, what the basis of profit-seeking,

motive. But they've got to beaughan, it's even if there's a joke, like, in the can't people, people, people who, who, who, who's America, to English, to Imperial, to Princeton, and allan, that's KW2. Not KW1.

Pantasm. But, yeah, yeah, the school-a-skol-in-kern-a-k. in America, in Europe, that's KW2, KW1, in India, in India. But, but they're always can't evening can't be able to beaure the curing, who's going to beauntary,

you go unang to gnagear. That, if I think I think so, for we can democratization. Yeah, can, concept of belajure. That's what I, kind of, how, I'm going to, like, how, how much, it's going to do this. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I think, related to this,

what I was, the universe that's even global. At least, Mm-hmm, NTIU, and one one of one

DOS in Singapore told, at the NTIU, maybe, either 60 or 70, Rectaer said it's time everybody, all the docents have to be,

you know, it's going to, yeah, there's a lot of people, that's not going to go to English, but at the end, that's their policy, and at the end, we can't see, now, how much. So, so, so, maybe,

maybe, must have a mass, the not-nigna-neemannan, the end of the next, but it's the last, but it has to be there, from the publican from the from the dimension of all right.

I'm like I've been a pranciz. France is that not money oriented Gaginia is a little but most fields medalists be a a a major in a bigamatic that in France is many, we're in the institutions where I'm working at there

Gajin is more than the U.S. U.S. has a lot of money Yeah, I'm atjana Tech, actually. Virginia Tech is the big a bigotty-dollar. But, but not academic, that's a plaity football team. We have a great football team. Money everywhere. Right? They have the hockey.

Economy, universities. So, in German, actually, not money-oriented. We have to look, we need money-oriented. We have to look. that's, that's, the right to be, that's the point of that's in there. or it's a commodity

like commodity that's like that has been regulated by the market. Maka in U.S. it's point is oh, it's a commodity in the past.

But, people who want loan it's, it's, it's, the money schoolh, because,

because, they're right, it's high, they're na' US, it's about it's about it's about it's about it's about it's about it's bad in the UK Pune to some degree like that. Mucking, because in the way, because in the different universities in Nottingham, it's like, gaii rata lusethingham is this.

Berndi not we're seeing that. If, if you're looking at the sake of the past, if, if I'm going to payman to bank that big, I'm going to investation, but the time I, five years. I'm out, not can't get a job for five years. Can't I'm not I'm not yet yet yet? Can't you can't, that's, can't,

it's consequence if pediccan is commodity, like that. In France, German, not so that is that is a huck of all the bank, so, so, the,

so, the gage, all of the government, the money, the money, the cap, the English, it's hybrid model. So,

the cap. Now, about the open-caterbukhaan, that's a person, a person who has to have authority then, then they can't be able to be able, if it's not 1% in the hand in the UK, I said, so that's the rector prerogative university, in Indonesia,

so it's a director that's the word-mentry, that's that's not only rector-the-mentery, the just has to be able. If there, if there's synergy then we can't be able to be together soly the same, we're not just just making a solution for the pediccation, we can't even

even until to the path diagnosis. We don't even know the sicking of it, if even there's a second. So, that, it's, you know, this, this, this, this, people,

we're looking, we're, dyespora. Diaspora, it, sometimes, it's, sometimes, they're, one unit. Haddhasti, I,

I have a life that's different. Context in universities and each one different, that's different. We're together,

to try to again Indonesia, it's not to be commodity. So, Sasti, said,

to the U.S., to the U.S., I don't know, UK is much so much universities in UK, many,

said you said you said, you can't as you can pay and pass the quality assurance. So there's a question for or not, from the financial. That's the problem of the business that is

the two people or not. And the part diaspora in here is to, to try to be in Agar any deal with Chicago, Osaka, that's not in Newtinkham, that's right? Yeah, that's right.

This, this, it's about it. But it's enough enough enough to hearin' story, you know, that's the thing, that's, if I think, if it's been virul-can, to jutaan. Yeah, right?

I'm just, I'm just, I'm glad. And I'm in fact, I'm not. I'm looking at the to the way that's we're really, we're really can't be able to many,

but two things that's important is, capacity about gauding. Right. Storytelling. It's important so, and storytelling

with a way that can't be partanguptan you back up your bullshit, the end thing, yeah, right? Yes.

The second, this, this can be able be able to be resigning. Persangin' metric is many,

but if the most simple to look the power that is productivity is and productivity is that's evening-manned. If we're scientifically we're not keren, yeah, we can't

be able to jayet a bagu like what what did you've got in other, so productive as pretty they're like their. Now, my last question is if you're going to do stem, that's what is

the guluti by the kids of Indonesia to So that we can become a really cool nation. What's just? If I'm not, he's quite. He's probably, try to get-minded. What, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how, how much.

Supplement to, to bring up to the marginal productivity that really, really, very, really, can be taken to open. If I'm, that the most important, that,

we can't really because it's making Indonesia. Clean and simple. What's is what's like? We have the power of the power of it. So, we have to beauchnology, bioprosest, engineering, that's, I'm going to be it. That's it.

Yeah, because if we, that's great, by the way. But that's very important. Because, I'm saying, how, how we can't make productivity. But, Up, how much about how much more than we can't be able to skill up. So from the same thing we need to beauprocess engineering.

But knowledge on biodiversity, don't even if we're manvathed can't use of our own way that merussar. We're not even think of planetary health. We also have to build with imperatting sustainability. So, So, that's very important to the different to the different

we can't make sure what's the locally for the keypentingan globally in front of the point. Yeah. No, no, simple answer, yeah. If I'm kind of

mayer or it is a tool but there might be bigger problem that's like biodiversity, yeah. But I agree It's really, if it's really if it's quite that

if it's important, like that's important, like, like, on storage devices, and like and other and like, right, Taiwan, semi-conductor, and like and other,

and, I think, I think, I think, whatever I'm going to say, maybe five years, it's important to just to just, my son, I've got to say

I'm just a lot I only know CS but you need to start Googling, you know, career path in this area, career path. I also look at interdisciplinarity from. But in the kacemata if you're looking at Indonesia

to the front. What we need to be able to beckoning for we to be able to in context of time? Yeah, Yeah, data science, I think everybody, want to be psychology, want to be doctor, we need to know AI.

We need to adapt, how AI can help. Again, it's of our occupation or problem, and and, and, like, and, like, we're going to replace jobs, but at the same time, we always look at the same time, we'll see how AI can solve bigger challenges. So, if I'm a lot, so I think, I think, AI, data science, if we're looking, one per three curriculums,

it's said, beabas, you know, take psychology, want to take physical, who am public policy, it's juster. And that's the beauty of data science major that's now is still in US. Amper every uni, create a new major, before, more than, maybe a new department, that. This is a question that's really.

Because I have to do you know, the reason why is what, because, can, people who are in instruction formal education, he, they're investas for four, five, yeah.

Duny is what what are you going to be hadapy when he'llluss in 45 time, so. So, the problem is,

the world is the world of 90-an, automotive industry, three, but many of the energy he's invests to universities, making technique machine. I'm going to ask,

why can't make up technique machine? Yeah, be it's about, bettering machine. Machine what? Yeah, bettering carburetor motor. Now, motor, I'maarnar. From the far as I'm from there. It's been able to be able to.

How much? Investation my investment. I'm abyss, don't know, the money, right? Now, what we're having, for the investment for, for the day, we're not sure, we're not sure.

We're not looking at, this is nottingham it's a entrepreneur that's retake organ tubu who's taking. Because the partanion is,

he has to belajure what? He has to learn engineering, he has to learn design, he has to beautecology, or all of all right? If there are atoll, usually, they're multiple choice

to be picked. So, that's real, so if I was there, if I did ask, the jurorsan, isherset, that's not relevant. Seked-seqat-dermal, for the time, for the time,

the person geologists, who learned to pay money, when back modality? Yeah, but to computer scientists, like Massar. To know, so, they can't compute, that. Now, but to chemical engineer

to quantification reaction working fluid with batto-batu-a-but-a-can, because it's like miniat-inthi-inthi-inthi-inthani. and it's social scientists, not perl, no, people who are you? If they're not too. If they're not too.

So, if the question is what what is the important? But if Indonesia context now, Indonesia, he has from grand narrative. If he wants using

comparative advantage, because it's not of the people have to be a comparative advantage, if they want to think comparative advantage, he's thinking renewable energy,

he makes blueprinting. I'm about 10 people in the bigotic. I'm but I'm about it's about it. But if we look at, the jurorsan of Indonesia in the STEM, the same way to. Blueprint from Reset Indonesia, to, want to try what is there?

That point, that. There's the point that. There's no idea for problem what that's going to do selisage can, to make the jurusan what that has to prioritization, I'm not too. If you're

if you're in the case of the chemistry, d'Uristened chemistry, because paper my more than that. But, not that's not, but, but, the question is more in the context of if you were in charge to frame

the path of the path of the future to 2,00045. What's just, we're thinking, we're going to learn what just so that's, yeah, not malo, like making we're being we're

being really, score of our own, the score of our own, that's important. Mathematic is very even, although in Indonesia, people know,

that's important. If I, if you're not being, if I'm not going to get to be able to get to be able to math,

math, it's, personal, that's about what's what's proof of evidence, or a bookie. Banyl so much translation between how to be thinking mathematics and how to think of scientific and epistemology that I've been thinking. Indonesia has mumpuny in the binawitics,

that's the number one. But he also has to mupony in the bidang sociology that can emas mathematics that relevant for the other. I was that's right now. I'm like in Instagram. Four nilatimatic. Because of the way of our

I, I'm not very different than the way of thinking of the people. I'm thinking about how much, I'm not going to get the reason why I'm saying, I'm going to get it, I'm going to beaumatry-minded mathematics. Gurus'u-kutka, if I'm in charge, guruner, it has to bequat-can so it can emas matemats that with the

with the conformist. What's just in Indonesia is conformity. You either follow the standard or you're out of the hierarchy. I'm out of the hierarchy, if I'm going to be able to be able to be entrepreneur, I'm not know.

Because because because of notepard, it's because of the point in there. But mathematics is very important for me. Totally. There's a person on here? Oh, you go ahead. No. I think we're, yeah.

going in the right direction, even though, evening panesang. Yeah, I'm not reset like narration we're, but we're going to continue to be with us. Last, but not least. Hello, from I, I'm going to be able to turn.

It's also to join the initiative. So, because we need numbers. We need people working together to make the critical mass. to make a change. We need to do it together, not sporadically, not individually, but we need a dent, to make a dent, to make impact. To make impact, we have to work together. So I hope everyone hearing this will join this initiative,

and let's make a better Indonesia. This is a talk about we, we know, we know, we're not, we know, that we're not doing dasque, that's not negative, that's been a lot of claspan, because of the more than critic, but I'm like, but I'm going to look at the momentum for the moment. For the time, because Indonesia is, because of the government, or despite the government, not derbendung.

Indonesia will move with it. Hasnors despite. It's despite. Yeah, the baseline is despite. Yeah, because. Yeah, that's. If we can make meritocracy, We can't scientific epistemology in the

in the same. Weasak, we can't be able to be it. Is it possible to integrate it? There are many bureaucratic hurdles. But if public interested, they're a constituency from who will make a biggarten. Science has mainstream.

The way of thinker it must mainstream. Barrow we can bempiakhaned up and tangible. Top. That's the discussion about epistemology and line-like, with the people who are people who are very including Shastia, Ariadhi, and

that's good. Thank you. Thank you. This is end game.