Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Jeth Soetoyo: Isu Fundamental di Balik "Crypto Boom"

Episode Date: December 15, 2021

Siklus kebijakan ekonomi makro pasca resesi 2008, bertemu dengan angin kencang inovasi digital yang terfokus pada desentralisasi, melahirkan blockchain, Bitcoin, berbagai "mata uang" kripto lain, serta para investor generasi baru dengan ideologi yang kadang bertentangan dengan strategi investasi konvensional. Terbuka untuk memahami kebijakan dan evolusi teknologi perlu karena dua hal ini pula yang akan menentukan nasib aset kripto ke depan. In collaboration with Pintu. #AplikasiCryptoUntukSemua ----------------------- Watch the video format of this episode on Youtube: https://endgame.id/crypto Pre-order the Endgame official merchandise: https://wa.me/6282133365263 Download Aplikasi Pintu di Google PlayStore & AppStore: https://bit.ly/pintuendgame Kunjungi channel YouTube Pintu di: https://www.youtube.com/c/PintuAplikasiJualBeliCryptocurrency

It's a a work from a lot of a few of Dool-a-a-a-a-a-a-half-a-a-tusan people were man using batu as a method for retookeran money.

And then we're using emas, after that the money that's backing emas, until, without backing an emas. If people believe in

something to have value, then it will have value. It depends on who believes it. This is N-G. Hello, Hello, today we're today today's Tutsuoyo, founder of Pintu, who's been in the world cryptocurrency.

Jeff, thank you, thank you, Pagita, you've been here. Thank you, Pagita, I'm going to be here. This is much, it's interesting and can give inspiration, because,

after this, many, people, young, that's what's about the topic crypto. This is an intellectual curiosity, that, if I think I'm not that I'm not even if there's a lot of there's a problem.

And if this really, can be able to be more than we're going to be more the next to the next to the next. Maybe it's about the small the life where, hobby what, And then, then, what's the class what, make you make you more

get, like, so? So, maybe, asal usul of my, a little background. I, too, but, um, the same time I, I'm, I'm,

in Indonesia, in Jakarta, uh, now, my time, my time, I'm, so I'm, so,

between S.D, and S. I, I, I, maybe, four or five, Because of the people? The people who's the one.

So, I'm also, I'm the one of the first. So, maybe, I'm going to be given... Ginipik. ...percobahs, d'aq, the school where one's the most, and then, adiqa, to go to school to school. So, that, that's my mother,

I'm, I'm, even I'm always adaptation, pindar-linguongan, so... ...that it's a something that ...that's something that's a lot of in my life. So I think that's I've been more much more than

better adaptation. But if you're going to monging the plazeranagan that, maybe, it's mathematics, I do, from the, um, the um,

um, um, more like, uh, matematica and, uh, uh, compared like,

like, ilumososial, or, so, so, so, so, it's,

more, the, yeah, okay, that, Now, I was from the same a student after the school, I'm in America, I'm learning of technique civil.

In Bucknell. Yeah, beth, in Bucknell. Backed from there, to management consulting, consultation management. So I've been spent work in BSIG. Now, then,

the long the Roland Berger, another consulting company. And, maybe two, three years after I've got to work I'm stillerous to work I'm sure that's a lot of like that's

so I'm going to be able to be U.S. The fact was it's in Harvard for NBA degree I and in there that, it's just before I actually

became clung to the blockchain. That's allal time 2017 when I was that I'm going to buy crypto and to buy into into money from Indonesia to America.

It's a main, man, because minding the money, if you're required for a long, can, merriment of time that's very long. What and what am I'm going to make an experiment or to percée with the concept? I think, there's...

There's a... There's a... ...aqa, book, or... ...oran who isikin, or what, or what, I think that. I remember about article in the majorla the majora American, it's Wired. In the major of the major of the technology blockchain

and how it's been brought potential to make a transaction that's more efficient from the way and from the cost. From there, I'm trying to try, experiment. I'm going to make blockchain.

And from 2017. 2017. Okay. Yeah, it's also was the boom cycle of the crypto in 2017. From there, I'm looking dampact and I want

to build a career from there. Because I'm being, I'm a a system financial alternative that's not even if it's and it's the fact that's open,

so that's very much it's very much to be a lot of the industry in. And from there I'm I'm taking a case for work in America, in a company, where they're... A great company. Yeah.

Where they're in incubation of many types of different types of companies blockchain, with use case of the use case of different, and from there I think the rest of history. Okay. Yeah.

There is not, where you're, there's, or even skeptic, on the concept alternative this? Yeah. Because if I, just, in the awall of the time, it's not,

not much, you're, with the concept this. But, of, that's that's that to be able to not episode or titic or a time where you're black box box, or this, this, how, that?

Maybe the period of the time, it, there's, in the 2018, 19, until the early 2020. It's what I'm what you named after in the the world crypto or blockchain, that crypto winter. dwinding in crypto, where all-time high

in the time high in the time in 2017, and it's a way that people people who are people am pertanical, what the potential blockchain, or is this a trend of a

grand and structural shift that's a long-pans and from there, I also have been asked, but But if we're even though, and how they're making the system this, people are people who are becoming

becoming a different that this has been a big and because system that's been able that's a lot of innovation. And that's, really, that's what I'm making to be in industry this. Okay. If I, if I'm learning,

why this is more interesting. This is one of the other one of the other than why this is more interesting, the time, the time, in the time 71, which is the way of the world of the world, which is more than the country or pro-economian that's more than much, making make sure that's recetecting that's more

more than much, it's more difficult to we're making assign the newy-to-stead even, theoretically, it's be able to be money-the-wang-dra-

or the value of the unit that is more down, so, so it's, need, alternative that's more finite.

That's what's been the other one of the other one of the popularity crypto, it's more than the other. The other, the kind of the of people on inflation, yeah, right?

And I, if I talk with the people of the money, they're trying class asset, that can use for to make diversification and also hedging. Because class asset, this, that's crypto,

this is very not be correlations, or relative, not correlations. Right. Right. Right. Is this, that's actually, Paa Gita, this,

we're really, we're talking with many financial managers traditional, from from the other than from from many from what we have what we have, we have, we can.

There's two sides, from the economy, macroeconomy, and also from the other side innovation. It's that's what's that's actually, uh, it's attractive, so, yeah.

Um, from from time long, federal reserve from US is a scale of cost of cost to cost of cost. And liquidity that's all really need to try opportunity, can? Liquidity is to need to be able to return.

And, with there's very liquidity, it's, it's, it's, it's, and, um, risk appetite from everyone, it's very big. And, to puttelling, and, And in a crypto-in-court-it-class, and is a risk-crowed-notes that's high-high-notes.

And everyone's going to find out to because, we can't imagine that the bank is now very low. And people are all going to find out of a opportunity that more than more big. Yeah. Even if we look demographic,

the more than the more than the number-upon-savings, or liquidity, because the money they're going to be simple, in bank, that has to be called it, the more money's more than the amount, and the finite, the number class asset, cost of money, Now that is in the lawyca,

only will be it's not true. Right. And, the more than class asset that'sat new, the more than the more than more than that to find,

right, but that's a set that, but that's a good but not, but not a good, there's also what I want to how you

who have to have to be able to be able to be able to help from the world, so that's a good idea of the platform is a bigiak-sana. Yeah. So, it's one of one of the core product offering, and also one of one of the mission,

because if we're going to bea with many of people of amang, that crypto is still that's not only not only by the skepticism, that's a lot of the same of the many people who who are using crypto,

or even for the other to make sure of the fact it's a fact that there's, many people who also who are using this for for,

activity that illegal or the jayatatans, but there's also innovation in the other. So we're very very to the product

to make educations about what is blockchain, how economic system that in the world crypto in

why a token or coin can have a value that's to be to the customers to

We have even to make a good education. Because for many people, this is a an industry that's a lot exotic because it's it's hard to jankow, technology also, we're not in the same, we can talk about cryptography, about networks.

So, so, this, really, really, to be educasic to customers, customer, and that we do, inside the app. This is a little, but we'll back to more detailed. But if I'm in

in a few thousand years, this is this innovation technology, this, the the speediness is more than accelerating the speed also, it's more than you're making. And you're a manatematica and science, And the more of the speed and acceleration and the more than the rise of error, and the margin of error,

and the more than the error if the other than the other, more than the error if it's more than it's more. Right. Error that's not be remeh-can, that's what's in the world of dual. Comberdaiant technology that's the same by two of the two of the other people that, the idea is a bit better,

the ideologies is a better. Yeah. Now, this can, we can, it's from, period of the 90-20-20-20% per-town. But blockchain, this 120% per time since, maybe, 15, 16-tahs down

the long. The pengunan-a-gutte, in 3-4-town, can be over 1 million to bea-one Are you concerned with margin of error? It's very, we're with growth and

and with a great, money from the world, investors, or people who are many that's a lot of people who are people for people who are people who are people from the last, maybe there's been a few hundred million dollars

that's gone to hackers in systems, systems, systems, platforms, decentralized finance, apps, and other many of the other than with a great big, many things that didn't anticipate by the development,

including the platform we. We have a few times not anticipate the development that's very and the people of many so there are some of our system we also can also

ganguance internal network and that's a a little bit of the But even a margin of error is more I think pace of learning, the speed of learning to the speed of learning, it's the time of this time this is more than it,

maybe we can have to learn and implementations fixed, now, the whole to be done in the time, instead of, mingu-one,

That's what's also that's for many people who are in the world crypto and blockchain. Apalagi, with the sifat the blockchain, where a blockchain is always running 24-7 not-per-reempty, so that this is this is more than innovation and the of the development in the world blockchain.

I'm curious, if in Indonesia, to people transaction, the day, the day, or in the day, or in the day? What's it's the day, and morning, and morning, the time?

The peak is the time, the time, the peak is maybe maybe, yeah, that's the that's, it's,

and it's good, and it's and they're before, time, eight, nine, and the load.

Now, this one of the other in the other equity, or the market model, where there's batas of time from 930 to, if you're in 5 o'clock, if not the same. And this, we're

making up the industry to do for 24-jams-a-day-in-it-it-it- for many people can be process of the This if there's a woman people who are like to make up to start with investations in class asset

this, what would be your typical tips that would be your typical tips? So, the most much more than givot, fear of missing out, that's is a one of the phenomena that, don't want, or not to be. Don't read the redid too much, yeah. Yeah.

If not want to be able to do notas of the Pucocs, in the up on a price crypto. Based on speculation. I more like to adopt the investsing in a cost averaging in C. Where we, in a consistent, to move,

a little, is that a week, a day or a day or a month, and with that, we get a average from a price of cryptocurrency. I'm in a lot of it, I'm a way that's a way

responsible, yeah. And, the other thing, we also, we also do more research, research to have fundamental from a crypto.

Maybe we've got I've got to have squit game coin, where many investors and... Oh, oh, oh, just a bit of a bit of a little bit more bit more than

developer's, yeah, and all of this will be if we don't do research that more than much more than

I was I was a webinar. There's a lot of people who's a person who's working on the bankers, he's been doing the doggasca to be doing product of products that, anguptanal. It's more difficult, right?

Bunga muckin'er, the stucu gunga, the product is that, that, that, deposito, like, rexadana, or what. And then there is, there's a more, like, I'ma-crapherne. Yeah, right? Recent reward, of the different profile. But, but...

But... ...buttement's much more than... Yeah. Now, that, how, we can bemenan-can people who work in system that's pre-existing and, and,

angupell more conventional, so that he still can be able to be in there. Right. I think I said, like I said, Mr. Gita, in the about about our own about our own our own we're going to be a system alternative.

Howan we still need a system per banked. And, even, the other companies like we're also dependent with system per bankan. And, in myroth, this is a trend or shift that not can

be a bit of a second In fact that I'm current traditional finance also started catching up and this my friend my who worked in J.P. Morgan

or in Goldman Sachs had said that bank bank they have also may may,

product product crypto. or is it's, or is it through the other, but from the side of their, they're also, that this is a brand that they're able to abackan like, and, in myroth, that is more than a lot of good, um,

to add access to people, to be able to get exposure, and from the bank, it's also, to, to, to, to try to something

that's new. This is also, this is the new-regal regulation in each-masing. Right. And regulator, tautunuching, can't be able to be able to be able to be too,

also, the principle, or principle of caretie-hatian. Yeah. Yeah, right, time, uh, did-buck,

to, and, to offer products product of the product that's exotic, yeah, But this is more structural is divergeny the divergency in the regatta in suhasa,

which is a very exponential, in the bigger than the progress of the regulation, that's more linear. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, it's not that can't be punkyri, but the can't be obadiobati with socialization and education.

Yeah, can, the more like you, it's just has been a pern to do not only the upsides, but about the downside of the downside also. And how this can equalize opportunities? The pananguad, how much? I agree.

This is... This will be a bit of a bit more than a bit more than, because, because, because, we can, we can, as a structural, also, also much of the time Right, right. We've got to talk about

the other things structural in the country our country, or that's from infrastructure our that's that's technology to

to be coming, internet, or from from the structure we manage our and

maybe this some that, maybe, maybe from technology also of other than other than participants

to be more than the other to be more than better than, I think, I think, can be more than other than any innovations innovation, any, I think,

one of one one of the government can, to be in to make, to be from the consumer from from the other than with the other than

with the development in the technology, they're also to be able to keep up to puttepat to keep up, so that's, keep, to keep, which I think is, in, I think, is, that's a, that's a thing that's a good,

that's a thing. And we, as a player in the industry, we also, more proactive to help the government, and to be with the government, to make them to make, or to make the ranka regulations

that can be able to consument, but also not, not, I'm not going to see. Innovation, it is,

can be done with good, if the smangue, collaborative, in the of the amongu of the important. Even in the sector of the bankinged so, this has been

a permalhan between paradigm and paradigm of the other this is non-digital, and the new, this is digital.

From the valuation just, it's a different, this is, in the paradigm of But I'm not yet positive it's

impetus for paradigm for the paradigm to make up to make digitalization. But this, but it's, they're going to be able to in here, they want to make upka d'i-muked

to make sure, and that's to bempimpingan and it's to divergency idea or democratization id idea, and maybe that's it's a bit more than, it's really, is hard.

Change is really hard to implementatisica. I also, I'm just too much more than not much more than, we're not quite a lot, but maybe not just Pa Gita, even for people in generation of my,

we're who are used with doing doing the way that with the way that's just for that's just for the way, just for the way that's just for the way, it's just as it's different from the external, or, really, we're, we're, in big-bank,

to make the way of our day, that's difficult. Yeah. You can say that again. It's more than to do it, right? And okay, I'm going to take issue that... Maybe it's a little technist, about crypto.

If we're looking at, this is the most popular, yeah, Bitcoin and Ethereum. If I'm learning, you're more with philosophy to Ethereum. Dijlaskan, to the or anyone anyone like I or anyone who's who can't. And maybe, after that's classifications

between the kind of the cool-manned, and the non-krain, who's-ma-ma-ma-ma-f, shit-coin. Yeah, right? Why, they're juluki shit-coin? And what's, what is that's what is to beckonemented if people want to beeliorik to that?

But, before we'll be about this two this. So, so the two-in-in-in, even though all of all kinds of crypto as a certain asset class, actually, in the data in crypto, it's a lot of bigotan, maybe if, with the good-madown Bitcoin is like digital gold, or emas digital,

and Ethereum this more like the... because the use of the where, one, Bitcoin is suplagely limited, and the sifat the same is the use of value. 21, jute of unit. Right, 21, jute, unit.

Butte-one, if it's a platform where people can make up application, application financial, or other and didgallant on it as Ethereum, and then, ether as a method of the other than the other than

core fundamental is two products that's very different. One, that's more like mass, one one that's more like, like, people can't make upplications applications, applications finance line, so. So, I think I'm notherium,

this potentials is a lot, but, but even though, but, actually, competition is also, and this is going to be in the category two. Many, actually, platforms platform. But before we go, before we go, this is for clarification just,

if this isomacan, or Ethereum, is samacan with minac. Does it make it deplitable? So, yes. Okay. With... We're technically,

Ethereum, we're doing... ...withalmuching to be able to be a little over time. Where, Bitcoin, maxed $21,000 bitcoin, in Ethereum, this, it's to make for it to

it, it's to be a number of So, so many people also more excited, yeah, about Ethereum. Because the amount of the value will be more than a value. Scarcity value. The second? The other category?

Now, the two, this, category is, actually, maybe other Ethereum, many other platforms other, like Solana, Avalanche, Terra Luna, and,

like like platforms that maybe not even shitt-coin, still many people be able to be able to bea-tebrang on itas-itaph, but it's not as a bit as atherium, so this is a spectrum, this, this, this, this,

like, politics, also, a spectrum is a big, and there are a billion. Ideologian, different in the between the blockchain system. In the middle of these blockchain,

that's more sacrifice security, but more optimals can the quick-eaten transaction and finality from each transaction. So, there's trade-offing, between security,

speed of transaction, and decentralization, three things. Each blockchain, will optiman one or the other. We're not even able to get-outed the three-thaguen't. That, that's maybe,

in the middle, now, that's more, the more, maybe, maybe can be called meme coins. Coins, which are based on the same like... Like Dogecoin, Chiba Inu Coin, which are already,

this, big of many retail investors, we can't make to the mass where a meme coin or a meme stock So much more people invest,

more people more than more than the more up, it's more, it's more, and, and, this is a phenomenon

that we're not we're only in the world of the world, the stock, like GameStop, and stocks, stocks, and,

from the side of myself, you know, if fundamentally, money, money, it's a a work a human yeah, that's a human

where we've been used to to make a standard from percaring. Keperciano. Keperciano. Now, if now, there's a product other, that many people

think people have as, have value, and can be used to be used for a partuker. It's, that's a is a

to be a stop too, if people believe in something to have value, then it will have value. It depends on who believes it. It's just like money. In the 1800s-ahs, people were using batu

as a methodo for retookeran money. After it, we've got to use emas, after that's the backing emas, until, after the money without backing with the amaz. If there's a lot of people who's made one crypto,

then what's been made back with emas, would that complete the circle? So? Yeah. So, yeah, there's been a project that that's going to do. But what I see, the data-tarick is

there, so, so growths there are kind of because, people think, if there's there's emas digital and what

I'm going to buy emas digital on the blockchain, because value proposition is same, limited to. So,

So it's not, access to e-mass digital this is now, now, in Indonesia, there's been there's pangayyadayan, we can't buy in e-commerce, or that's topopedia, Bukalapak, and, and the line,

so value proposerunner is not quite for people who are buying emas that's a token in blockchain that's by e-baking by emas. This, this, in, this, in, back, If we try to try and this is what? This is what?

Yeah. The first, can, maybe, if there's plongeranguant quantitative, the stop, the pencatacan the world is stopped. The quatiran of the amount of around

that's not, not there's not there again. Now, now, dollar, Euro, and they're still, yen, they're makingle too, even though, even if I'm being able to becheting, I'm going to beegang alternative.

But, tibba, before, or, they'll take, okay, from from now, we're not... Not can't get it again. This is a batas part of the stumbuhan crypto. Yeah, right?

Yeah. inflation. Inflation, this is more mingcat, it's more likely to crypto. Because for the importance of hedging, diversification, and all right? But if you're not too,

the quathing about inflation, it's nothung or it's been notarang. It's, that's a batasance alamiah for the future of crypto, right? Now, I see,

technology, this, pedang that besay-dewa-d-d-d-a-d-tare-two, Right. One of the side of the same thing is how it's how it's the same thing can't inflation, even can deflation, because, yeah,

the biaya artificial intelligence now, the education is a 10-70% per-town. That's a... ...itone. So, I'm going to try

Gingtong, this is about. But, but we just think of the Gingtong just, when, economy, economy, to stop to make make in the time of the time, it's not going to be, in the time,

when, if, inflation, or, deflation, I think not will, deft, in the meantime, enjoy the right. Right.

Intenting is that, Crypto is macro. Crypto is a class that has a set class that has a good with macroeconomic policy. So I'm even being if you're going to beaing that it will have been a different to crypto.

Because liquidity will be... ...are from the market, and things that are risko, risk will be more than investsacquesque, that's going to be able to be able to. It's probably,

it's a question that is, that's a factor that the first, that macro is will dictate but, but there's also factor the other.

Many of people who are being being We're not just in credit cycle that's the end uproputing but also innovation cycle, where the perkemangan technology crypto is for the use that's very much, particularly in the world financial,

it's, it's, it's, it's, to make opportunity, that we can make up application that's the global, and can be able to serve the global community is a opportunity that's very

the other than effects or variable variable from macroeconomic policies, so much can be said, yes, there's a certain factor, maybe there's a headwind, where macroeconomic policy

will be an impact negative to crypto. In other, there's a lot of innovation that's not only as well as the potential for crypto and adoption, real adoption, that's really, that's really not really that's the way that's a part of the other than that's a part of a lot that's a big thing that's a big thing that's about I'm saying, I'm going to be a second,

The second is that's the most can't be made up the same as much to be it around. That's the way that is the abutasasan alamia to or to be it with the of the crypto, but, yeah, back again to the calculation when this will be it,

it's not there, the upside potential for crypto, this is still significant significant. And I also, I'm also that I'm anuling the risk of the risk of conventional, to be it's risk cross-border, risk of the lawlaten,

risk of apocopon, like, macro-political. Ibarred if it's like if there are people in the middle of Afghanistan want to trans-saccy with people in jember, he's just like a crypto just. He's not even quatir about fluctuasi dollar. Yeah. Yeah. it kills the typical risk that has to associations with

transaction between two groups, in a geographies. Yeah, right? That's I, I'm going to tariff again, I'm going to take to the penning of Indonesia. This can be can be it's not platform you can and platform that's on the other in Indonesia. This is a very important to increase in inclusion of the Uy Acknowan.

Yeah, can? It's been to... ...buttal, not only to... ...butal, but model that scale is a big, yeah, right, this is that's often, the critical. There are some who have idea that brilliant,

he has access to the model. But there are some other that have the idea that's the same brilliant. Even, it's even brilliant, but there's full-luss. Now, that's not just because of the equalization of opportunities is hampa or a lanker. Now, how we can

actualization it. For the importance, inclusion of the money and access to model that's great. Yeah. How about the two sides, from the two sides of the first, from the industry. Blockchain is, because, from the first, the company, or projects,

also, more much more to to find the data model, that, from global community, yeah. Because from the first, Bitcoin, there's one, there's a place where it's going to be be developed in a geography, but it's global from the first, same as like Ethereum,

same like blockchain, right. So, blockchain, is the same global from the head first. But, maybe I, in the other side of the other, from a person that's the sort of a person that's the local, because the Pintu is a local company, we're making the regulation in Indonesia, and we're only making up to products,

to the market local, for retail investors in Indonesia. Compotice, to work upon a lot of a lot of that I think, not only only from the company but all of the companies in various industries, particularly in Indonesia. Because competition is also, it's also for companies from from outside from the from from from from from from the world that more,

that has more than more than to to the market so I'm also I'm going to talk about with the people in the the end of the world. We can't be going to be able to

continue to start local again. If we're going to do competition, make product it's standard standard global. Because access

also very much for the people in Indonesia to access to product global. or... Inusory in the industry I, right,

which is the physical global. So, we need to try and make a suburb that can be from the product from the product

international. And that's a challenge that's a difficult, yeah, Raghita. And I

think this will be partabash, this, competition, this, competition, this. I'm going to

take like, this. This, this, macro. I always look at the ratio of the breader to be around the ratio of the breader to beaughan economy. Indonesia is ratio of the world around

50%. M2, liquidity to the PDA, in the above 50%. But, the other, the other than the other the other than the BDB is, it's just at a 100%. Yeah, right? Yeah, if they're more than limpa,

more than they're more than to give them to idea that's great. Yeah. Yeah, right? Right, right. You know, you know, if playing field's level, okay, okay, but if playing field not level,

where they can't yer more more, have ember that's more than you only have a sand-ock-pecial. Yeah, right? Yeah. and it's about about nationalism, ke.

But at the end of the end of the beginning of a vibrant entrepreneurial society in Indonesia. I'm not anti-modal from anyponadal from, model is democratic. But, but, there's a cuterbatassan in this

in, or boudous, or or other, that's to get-a-rentananan to get-and-a-culted to the world.

Not we're anti-arus-modal from the we're okay-o-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-t, but we're getting retan. If they're just get-git-a-turt, and that, and, what, and, what,

that's going to beaurean Ullang, two-tenths, like, that's making kind of a kerentana, too. This is to-capy, you. You have to build platform, and, even the competitors you who are with a sehat, but they're going to be tempel with the money,

yeah, can, in a bitisagena. How, Jets? Yeah, facta, maybe, Maybe, Ma'a, right now, more than more than, from the other than from the other than from the other than from countries,

from, as a founder, and maybe, same with the founders and for founders that one, there's a bit or a subaq, there's a bar, there's a,

from the country that can be able to to be able to forkemangan from the prosan of this. When we can talk about the amount of more,

or more than more than more than more than more than than more than than other than we're going to I think it's a a one of the other people who are also,

that's something that I've got to me, I don't know I'm not I'm in Indonesia is more

much, if that's fun, or that that's the kind of the support support entrepreneurs in Indonesia.

That's a hope of a lot of my hope of my opinion. This is structural. And I'm talking for generation of enduce. Z and Z prime. Not millennial. Yeah, right? I'm a millennial. I'm a boomer.

But I'm talking about Z and Z prime. I want to look at them more clear. And if they're more than more than who want to have more than can't even-anyl from anywhere, but it's also from the other than the country. That's the point I'm going to be democratic, and more safe,

and playing field more level. What other, you know, there's option to learn to the cerdasasan artificial or blockchain. You'd have to be blockchain. Because of the sturdasance, or

it's a betterbatasance, with data, compilation data. Tyeongk is a good, because data is very massive, and mechanism, system, technology to compilation, to get data, that's just natural. We, data is there-batas, and system, and

instrument, and technology to mungpulking data, there's not this is related to data. This is very sensitive. And if we want to get up to look up to data, in context of what you've done, what you've done, what you've done, and the people we've done with verticals on the line,

that's the end-o-ug-wing to nationalism. So it's it if we can to have more than um, more than more than professional by institutions that's in person

to be partanguroped or to beckonjeworthand it's great, you? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not, yeah,

there's sovereign wealth fund. Yeah. Yeah. We can be a lot of it that that's a small a good, yeah, from Indonesia. Kumukkine many more than more, yeah, we can't get from

from more VC fund, venture capital fund, or even type of fund, and other. But, we're very, I'm notaric, about data. Like, what we talked about We're about about

it's more than a lot of kind of a lot of tyrant, yeah. Barrowe we've got got info that Robin Hood, datagny had a big bit more that's a bigot in America, yeah, data of the people

think cybersecurity is a, a threat that's a natural, to all of the people. If it's man-made, it can be broken. Pasti.

Yeah. if you know, no, no-notes-notes-notes even though people think blockchain this super secure

yes, with technology that's actually, there's one that can be a threat

for blockchain that quantum computing that quantum computing can actually break metas cryptography

from such a technology with the development quantum computing, that is a lot of a lot of way that's a lot of the world to be it, especially, especially a threat that can be a threat that can impact to the world industry blockchain.

Okay. If we look, the of the blockchain, 120% per time, this is really, yeah? Yeah, right? Gila. Margin of error,

more a more one error that's the same can't happen and supply supply is that's a new energy Bitcoin just

the energy 130 terawatt that's same with the energy in Argentina in a month in a year Now, if

if they're in the country maju, think, Tyeongk, they make power plant in a day, soarie, it's right, right? Yeah, can. They're making uptankan megawatt,

power generation, but in many of the world bekemang, still there's a catarbatassan, right? We're on one hand, want, ingin gyrhkae-minat

to be participat in class asset that's new, but participation the same, it's important, need to be able to beauching energy. But if the upbuckedan energy there is a catarbatasance, yeah, as a systemic, that's there are a catarbatasance, right?

And the titic-temu, and demand, that's not clobb, too. So, so, So actually this snapshot, maybe it's actually snapshot, maybe a couple of the other than a lot of the other than blockchain, crypto,

that's still, using non-renewable energy, so, or not-renewable energy, so, the... ...theaugh, yeah, from Bathebara. But, but, we're, we've seen, we've seen the trend that,

which, that's the barra, this more than better than renewable energy, or that's, hydro, solar, and the other. So, and the other,

so, and I think, and I think the trend that's the two that and we've started to look that is,

proof of work. Proof-of-work, this is a system that's using energy-intensive for blockchain. It will be a will go to the system that's proof of stake,

where we don't need energy that's very intensive to verifyifcation on the transaction. Like Ethereum, this, will be able to proof of stake target test in the time in the year, probably.

So I think, I think this, energy consumption is also will be able to be able to the other renewable energy. As illustration,

work to stake, the the number of the ratio of the I don't know exact number, but significant. Okay. So, it's very significant. And many platforms blockchain that's also

using proof of stake. Now, the popular now there's Solana, there's avalanche, and in the other and some of the big, that's not using proof of work

work again. But if Bitcoin, it's still going to put forthwork. Because how much the proof of work is the the way of the same way for running in blockchain. So I think Bitcoin will still be gold standard and still still for work.

Sedgant, blockchain, other, which make uptamacons, be it cost per transaction, that will be able to put forward to PURFOST. Angagpah popularity Bitcoin still still be a good-clanjutor.

Yeah. Obat the other than, if the bank of the electric to the uptumbollation is just single-digit, and from 10%, but the pertumbuant Pemerdain for Bitcoin, it, tet up,

percent? How much that? I think there's a certain some of the same, where the use of the stock this will be a down energy drastically.

Oh, the non-Bitcoin. But the money, but the money. With assumption Bitcoin, this is going to increase and then get back,

lobe, and injure Bitcoin. I'm I think, yes, this is, but but that's exponential, not going to exponential, not going to be long-kelamahann,

I'm in order to think that's the transaction on the Bitcoin will be as much as if we think if we think, we're not too sering, minding emas from, from where,

so I think, I think, transaction in at least over time, will still growing, growing, but not growling as a drasticist. That's opinion of my opinion, I see. I want to try to book us in context that more

before I'm asking, the questions of the last about Indonesia to the front. But this is if I look phenomena of the perubhaphanism, phenomena of the technology, phenomena,

the globalization. This is three cabang that still make accelerations. The other, how do you know, on the three things as a book-and-a-up what you're doing

for the importance of Indonesia to the time? The first, the claim, the two, globalization? E-clin, technology, globalization.

Okay. If you claim, mother nature, right? Yeah. Emissy carbon. Yeah. Technology, Morse law. Yeah, can, which is upon the actuality.

The three, globalization. We can look at decoupling in Tijuana with America America, we look the of the

shape or of democracy or democratization and the politics in different this can't make sure it's one way or another, right, whatever, what you're doing.

How about it? I'm a claim, it's really, in another life, I always like, I want to work on climate change, but yeah, thank you. It's been

into the world crypto. But it's very noble, it's really, worrying, yeah. It's actually, it's actually, I'm afraid of the human being. I'm just a little bit.

I talk about when people young young, generation Z, they're not know carbon that's what's that's about, just 2,000 to 3,000 gigatone. They're not know emissy carbon a 1st-torn

60 to 1, 60 gigaton. So, this life expectancy if they're like these, finite. Just 50-a-town. Sorry, I cut you off. You're right, right. But I do feel that there is hope, there's hope.

People like, people like, like Elon Musk, government like China that, to structural shift from the

carbon-based fuel to electric, renewable energy-based electrical consumption, that will be, I think, I think, will be a lot more than to the other than. With President, also, and I think that will be able to make up for the power of cars.

I think it will be able to get positive. Positive, good. So I feel, I still have hope, yes. But, yeah, it's has to be a priority for the country and, you go to every person. On the second part, about technology is changing at a even faster rate. Even now, I'm also in the world blockchain and crypto, it's so hard to keep up to date with technology turn around the way in the blockchain that

Because there's very big, like that's big, like we're going to bea-belior-being every day, really, you're going to keep in the news of the the new. How much, now, pace, it's very much, with everyone working from home,

expectations about availability online. It just makes everything faster. And then on the third part about globalization, I think decoupling this is not We've got to really, we've got to look at the technology internet, where China basically, basically,

internet their own, where they're censor and control, and the other have been internet that's been able to be open. It's become more new, in the world blockchain, we've also already to see that,

where China has done ban for the for the use crypto and blockchain, and they're making blockchain blockchain-merexed. Like the time of the internet, I think that's also to be able to blockchain.

And, maybe, you learn of the blockchain, also industries, industry, and other industry, and it will be it. I'm curious. In a day, in a day, you know, how percent, you're talking about what's about

about about about about about about about it, Justro, 80% not going to blockchain, ma. It's good, no. It keeps you balanced. While we're in the world blockchain, I also, what I'm also,

part of the work in, or that marketing, product discussion, HR, to be a lot of the company to be a head of the company, yeah. Yeah.

Justru, not much of time to learn about blockchain and crypto. Maybe not just enough of the time. Fast forward. Indonesia, 2045.

Yeah. What's the way? Gambarindy. Toe, want to go on context crypto-ke, want to go-gomonged in context of whatever. So, we're all optimistic, smagat. Hope, yeah?

I've got hope that's very, but we're going to get from demography, we're still many people who will be maturity, mature age in the time in the 245. We're a one of a population

population is the world of the middle income sector growing with very, where people who are are very to try to technology and more innovative. So, I mean, we're going to be in a place that right, I think, one decade, 10, 20, 20, time to the other than is a few decades, where Indonesia will

to be the more the more than the global stage. I think that's going to happen. And I think, from investors in other-negary, from from from the other-negrie, they realized that Indonesia is into a inflection point,

the tipping point, where the growth is going to accelerate. And, and, and, especially the demography our our demographic that very much for 10, 20, 20, 20, time. I see,

better, compared 5, 10, years, I'm going to go over with Indonesia, there. Not many who neok. But if now,

I don't know, they're not saying. Yeah, right? Yeah, right? Yeah, this is because, maybe, some of the platforms in Indonesia that's been a result, yeah. And that's the dutas,

but also, the other than demographies, the change, political, the more to the way to the right to the right. I want to try challenge you on

tokenization. Yeah? This, can, the tokenization is in the context of economy. But there's also, can, contexts, contexts, like that's social, buda, politic, even geopolitic.

Yeah. Muginization is, to be rediakened to the important, the importance of social can't technology blockchain, it's,

can, but the other than a loter immutable, arty not be able to be able, and it's been able to be. Actually, instances from the country can use blockchain

to, to, the bethings that can be what, the impact positive, like, I,

I don't, in Georgia or in Europe, There's a public election that's using blockchain to record voting. Solid. Yeah. There's also pilot project in-transparan.

Yeah. Yeah. Jlas, all right? Yeah, right. Right. And ledger's very very. Yeah.

Yeah. Right. There's also, I'm also, but they're also, but they're going to record data, what's the name name, the epimilitar. Yeah. That's, that's a lot of tunditit,

data that's not accurate, they're going to be working on blockchain to record data the data to. But, it's, we need, we want to be able to be a day, to be a part of the type of physical, that's very hard to record on the blockchain. Because it's very important to be manipulation.

We also a source of truth, or that's a person that can verifyification that we're doing the blockchain is data that better and matching with data physical the data physical. So, I mean that's going to come, but maybe it's going to be, So if you know, from the

the blockchain use case, it is the most of the financial, and maybe the second, this is the other, this is a bit more than what, NFT, digital art. That's also a trend that's quite, and, in my way, and, I think,

can be be beckmank. Right. Yeah. Because if, maybe, the other generation of my or maybe I've got to many other than I'm notepotment value in a lookison,

why not I'm not I can't now be able to a value to a career-semi that's the digital? Back-baly to perception, and the young now,

that's now, they're used playing game, and then they're in-game items. That's actually a sort of of the NFT.

And I think that if they're used to be used to concept of the concept as an art, that's not far. This is this iscrayan

that application concept this will be to turn to vertical vertical

later. And if if I'm This is a concept that decentralized, yeah, right, yeah, that's a bit of centralization that's still in a different or things that's siftalistic in a

in a few different in a country. Even, it's been to centralistice. Bank central is centralistice. Yeah, right? And system politic in a different countries centralistice. There's a certain episode, where discussion,

predepatant, discourse is going to be about, if we're going to be we're going to make sure desentralistice or centralistic? Now, the bicare about decentralization or centralization. This is not leapsed with democratization, yeah, right, right, I'm going to ask I have some of the other's about. Pandanagan's my,

and I'm going to be a lot of the last we've got democratization information that's massive. But this is not didamping with democratization idea. That's what is very isang-can, even if idea isvurcation or per-polarization.

more this, it's more this, it's not, this, not, this, not, collaborative. And that just true, that's what is the need of, because collaboration is, it's not about innovation, creativity, and,

and, I'm sort of, big-a-agued. There's democratization information, but didn't do democratization of idu. That's a phenomenon that's interesting, We're looking at America, with political, with the world politic's also. In the world crypto, there's also

there, there's a political in, there's a camp in Bitcoin maximalist, there's the camp in Ethereum maximalist and maximalists of the and, sometimes, nanda bickarer, you, if you're,

if you're at here, you're at the place It's hard. Yeah. Yeah. So, there's there's a perspective that's there, not only one perspective that's the perspective that's

wrong. It's really, from, from where, we actually, a, a, a,

a, problem, or a problem, or, angle of what's what? It's going to perspective. Actually, we need to be more to the tolerance, right?

Tolerancey to beaeradtsy to beaeradalogy to have a different idea, that's that's really that, we've already, we've already, I'm fundamental really.

I'm not a lot of the callotan, it's not justrorederan, but just tollerancy, yeah, can, getterbukaan. Right. Smangat collaborative. Yeah, if there are people who better pandan with the other, but if they can't

try the pola communication, So, it's more that's innovation, more than the idea creation, the more than the idea democratization. Now, that's important. And this is the end upong with the Pekanenetna.

This is a new but this is to educate, and we don't, if not, if we're not not to-studu-tue, but minimum, don't, not, E.

Right. And, and so long we're to beaumannes, that this is much it's really for the importance of the impenquaten of the impleason,

and mullied for entrepreneurship to the other. This is the last, Jeth. Anak-Nudder- -old-scan-can-a-muddered when you're excited,

if it's good, when young young people who are excited really excited, right? Right. Right. And so far, I think, net, untung. There are some of the corbans,

or, or, game, stop, at the end-o-o-o-o-june-stop at the end-n't-nurt, but net net, like, un-untun-ed, or do-untunk-ed. One, there's a quatiran. If they're more than they're able to be able to be able to be it up

enough, only with two jempole just. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Who's who, who's making a bagu, make a spotu, muccoct tanem, and...

...andem, because, we're going to come we have to make, we have to make, we have to buy, we're going to do the work. Who's going to do the work?

I'm not really goodiginitas is like much, sir. Yeah. So, it's very much for... to the world of the market, or in the world crypto. But... Phenomena this,

I mean, I can't always be long-longed. There's a certain time in where there are correction. And at that, uh, the playinan investasi, so much, and,

that's one thing that that's really work, that's not even though real work and get back from investment that's also very important. Because we can't always make that we can't always make that our our capital our,

and I think I, in other, there's also there is a correction equilibrium, yeah. Maybe, maybe, fintech, digital, is very interesting for the people but I think also much

many, the young people who are more more than, start-tark-tech. Many, yeah, start-up, start-up, too, that's at agri-tech, so I think there will also be the other people who are interested in the other sectors,

maybe that's not digital. I believe that. Yeah. Sometimes, it's just trum just in the the of the care of the generation that's going to be a generation that's so, yeah, right?

They're thinking, ah, from I'm trying to find out of the crypto, or I'm playing the same as and that's just. There's maybe there's a group that's like that. But I think that prospect of the genis ushasa that's

that can be able to be able to be and it's more. Many, many, there. There. There. There's a person of the last, Jeff. The other,

investment responsibility, and probably also diversification is very important. is very important diversification. Don't fomo, don't throw all in crypto if you think investsation and always do your research. I do think, I think,

I'm really, blockchain is a very interesting and prospect is very big not just to make investasas but actually try to make something in the other

blockchain. That's something that is still in Indonesia, I think many projects projects out of from the other than Indonesia but from there's still

not much Thank you fascinating Thank you for you Thank you for Gita You know that's Tutuio founder of Pintu

Thank you This is This is endgame