Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Keindonesiaan vs Tuntutan Go Internasional | #Endgame ft. Stephanie Poetri (Part 2)

Episode Date: September 11, 2020

Bermusik adalah kegiatan kolektif yang tidak dapat dilakukan sendirian. Hal ini mendorong Meni untuk suatu saat menciptakan support system bagi musisi-musisi Indonesia agar semua punya kesempatan yang sama. Telah turut mempopulerkan nama Indonesia di kancah internasional bersama Rich Brian dan NIKI, bisa bekerja sama dengan produser dari seluruh dunia menjadi cita-cita Meni selanjutnya.

We're still five years from today already in the producing side of the game. We're still in the singing side of the game. We're both. I think both. I think that would be my best, my dream would be to do both. And maybe one day having a collective of producers. That would be really cool. This is end game.

So, okay, let's talk about your latest endeavor. Barro, I'm going to get with 88 Rising. Yeah, right? When was that? I think it was August when it was the Head in the Cloud concert. Okay. And then... August last year, right?

Yeah. And then I think I came out with my first EP with them. Okay. February? I'm really bad with things. Yeah. Okay. So it's a long time ago, actually, I just realized.

But... I like how they actually give them. you so much freedom. You talked about it. A couple of times I heard and talk about that. Yeah, it's incredible because I have a lot of friends in the music industry who have told me that they have been kind of pushed a certain way. Yeah, and I feel like when you do that, that's when you get people who don't enjoy the music anymore. And who realize that maybe music is just the facade. Yeah. But I think the great thing with 88 is that

they never once told me what I should do. All they did was provide me every single, like, support and options, and I was the one who, like, chose. And, yeah, it's incredible because also being in an environment where people have that same cause, that same drive of promoting Asian talents, it just adds that motivation to working hard. I like the mission of 88 rising. Yeah, it's a...

I remember when I first... first looked at music as a possible venture, I always was like, Edith Rising is incredible, and to be a part of it would be a dream come true. So it's really cool. And, yeah, what other people Indonesia, who not too be quite, they're not too much to be known, and they're, it, is, it, for, what, is, to expose to the people of people who are people who are very much.

Yeah, really. I'm, I, I'm, I just like to look at social media, and see many of the musica that I'm really because social media can make up the way of their. It's so disruptive. It's so disruptive. And it's great as well, because I look from different parts of Indonesia,

we're like, from Jakarta just, that's. Right. So, from Flores, from Sumatra, anywhere, anywhere. So it's incredible. And they're also going international in their own way. So it's cool. And I feel like, you know, some people don't want to go international

And that's cool too. I feel like a lot of people put pressure on every musician to go international, which I feel like, you know, shouldn't be so forced upon. Some people are happy writing Indonesian songs for Indonesians. And, you know, that's cool. That's important. But if, I'm going international to normal. Especially if you want to lift Indonesia up.

Yeah, for sure. I guess I've seen certain people on social media. be so pushed and forced. But, you know, they've shown that that's not important to them because they feel like there's a lot of other people who are already doing that and they're content with where they are. And so I think it's great both. I feel like, you know, as long as we give them the opportunity and the option.

There's space for everyone, right? That's true. I do think that there's space for a lot more people like you to basically just blow the trumpets. Yeah, I can't wait. Shout out, you know, about Indonesia. Yeah. It's also really cool.

I remember when I was young and I was watching TV or watching a video and hear the word Indonesia. Even if it was like a geography lesson on YouTube, I'm like, oh my gosh. Yeah, so it's like, you know, I see videos of Indonesian musicians talking about Indonesia. It's really, you know, meenang-can. And I know, many people in Indonesia who, when I see the video, or, I'm like, wow, or, I'd like, wow, that's, wow, that. musis-musis in Indonesia that me like.

I remember I remember Brian and Nikki they're incredible and they're awesome they're so cool and I remember watching I mean Nikki is like that close to I don't know man

She's so talented Torrey Kelly, Beyonce and all that Yeah What's crazy is they're also really nice I met them only a couple times And then it's also nice to see that no matter what, that Indonesian hospitality will still always be there, if that makes sense. And there's also a bunch of other musicians who are still up and coming, but they know that they need to always mention their home country the same what I do. Because I feel like culture is such a big part of who I am.

Like I wouldn't be who I am if I grew up in Indonesia. So I'm always like, I'm Indonesian. What up? Texas, Indonesia. But that allows you to stand out by having grown up here. It makes you different. It definitely does.

Having like a different view of life in general sometimes. And I don't know. I think the space is so huge for more of monies to create and create and to make Indonesia proud. I mean, that would be amazing. And I guess one of one of the one of the things I want to do in

to make sure that a lot of people have been saying that it's very lucky that I get the chance to do this. And I totally agree. But I want to make sure that other people, like that it's no longer about luck, you know, that someday anyone who has that passion can get the same opportunities as me. I mean, people underestimate.

made. Yeah, but... That, you know, success actually involves a lot of hard work. That's definitely true. I mean, people don't know how hard you work, right? When you do your songwriting, when you do your song production and all that good stuff. Yeah. But I also feel like a part of it is definitely, you know, the things I had.

I would have never been able to write songs if I didn't have a laptop or a guitar. And a lot of people who are talented. Yeah. So I want to make sure that everybody can... do the same things I do, and not be so so... ...tertahann o'er, the kukurangan. Yeah.

Now, I want to talk about the quartz you used on your songs, right? You're, what, appreciate, if not wrong, the main in the C. And then, straight to you, you did it on D, D major. And then, of course, I love you 3,000. You did that on F-sharp. I mean, you seem to be able to oscillate, you know, through a pretty wide spectrum.

Any particular reasons? Or you just kind of felt good on that particular note? I'm very, I would say I'm still not educated in music and music theory. I'm definitely actively learning. You're too modest. No, but I don't know a lot about chords. and I just know how it makes you feel and how certain things sound good together.

And so I play enough instruments to make a bass, a bass line of a song. And so I remember when I made I Love You 3,000, it was because it was a... You know, that's really scary. When I heard the story about how you were so inspired to write that song. Yeah, it's a...

I feel like it's the right place at the right time. It's really coincidental with the title of the show. It's weird because if I wasn't bored that night or if my friend had asked me to go out that night, I would have never went, you know, and made that Q&A. And yeah, it was like a random chord progression that my friend told me a long time ago and that I was like, I want to make a song with this quartz one day. And then I just ended up. Who played the, when you were writing the music?

Who accompanied you with the musical instrument or you did it yourself? So I remember I just recorded it on my phone. like a full song. I sent it to my mom. And she was like, oh, we should record this. Without a musical instrument, just voice. Yeah, with my guitar. It was like a very... It wasn't an ukulele, was it?

No, it was a... It was my first guitar from my dad for my 12th birthday. Okay. And it was, to this day, it's still the guitar I use. But, yeah, and then I realized I should probably get a good guitarist because I'm not that good, so as you can hear the towing, doing, you know.

So I got my good friend, He's super talented and at that point he was still new to everything. But I remember he had like those like pedal things and then we somehow made those like vinyl crackle sounds. So that the iconic in the start of the song that was purely just him messing around on his pedals. Wow. What guitar do you have? I think it's a dean. Okay. That's a pretty good guitar.

Yeah, I think he was like, okay, this is going to be. okay, this is going to be your guitar, and it costs a lot so I can't afford your next birthday present. So I was like, okay, I will make sure it goes to good use. Oh, yeah. And any plans on playing electric guitar? It would be my dream because lately, like, I've been really into songs with electric guitar. But I guess a part of me is also like, why do I need an electric guitar? Straight to you is with an electric.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But with that, we made it in a studio that one. So it was like we had all these instruments to choose from. Yeah, but a part of me is also like I have a guitar, like a normal acoustic one. So why do I need an electric for just writing? If I would like to fully produce a song, I'd go to someone, you know. Okay. Okay, talk a little bit more about the process with which you write or you wrote,

I love you 3000. So I love you 3000, as we all know. Sorry, but I think what's really cool about how you wrote that song, at least from my perspective, is how you interact. with your followers, right? It really glued you to the pulse of the people. Yeah, it was definitely a really random spur of the moment because I've done Q&A's before, but I've never done it with music.

And so I remember I was really bored one night. And my sister, she's also an illustrator, and she did that a couple of days before, which was like, send me something to draw. And then she had this huge paper with all of these things that people ask her to draw. So I was like, send me a word, and I'll make it into a song. And so Endgame, like Avengers came out a couple weeks before there. So it was like a bunch of people sent I Love You 3,000.

So I just randomly wrote that. And a lot of people were like, why husband? Like, girl, like you're like 18. And it was purely because it sounded right, like with thousand at the time. And also I had this idea of writing about like how some boys can be very, obvious when they want to ask you out and it like ruins the moment and so I wanted to like put that together. It's just it's very funny but definitely a lot of it is from my followers and how fun they were they also didn't expect anything like like I made like a couple panton in that story. I have like I still have it all saved like one was like a panton about papaya one was like about Game of Thrones so it was like a mix but I Love You 3000 was the one that like when I When I woke up, there was a bunch of DMs being like, can you make this into a whole song? And I was like, okay.

Are you going to keep that up? I would like to. The interaction or the interactive process of idea, creation. Yeah, I think I would definitely like to. Issue is it, like, like, people, so, oh, Meni, I'm going to make like L-O-V-3000 again, or, or Miny, I think, yeah, right, so. So, I'm also, I'm not sure, I'm not sure.

and like to have expectations. And I mean, I would like to do it again. But like chill just, and not, and say, like, eh, this is for sure, just. Don't, don't, yeah, right. Yeah. So maybe one day, and I feel like with what's happening right now, it would be a great reason to do so.

But I would definitely have to be like, but, santi-hanty-hanty-a-gaz. We don't, we don't make anything. Okay, yeah, appreciate. Your mom helped you with that. Your mom helped you with that, right? Yeah, she helped me translated to Indonesian. Okay.

So, so you wrote the original in English, and she kind of helped you with the translation. Yeah, I think it was like my second song I've ever written that was finished. And I think it was always my favorite song growing up and I would tell my friends like, I made the song. And, but when we released it, like mom said, you know, you should try

try to translate to the language. So yeah, you don't want to limit your audience. audience in your first song. And so we did it, but a bunch of people would like comment like, I like the song, but I like like more than I'm more than English, because I'm going to go back English, I'm like, like, I couldn't even do it like, right it myself, so my mom had to help me translate it. Because it's really hard to translate these.

Indonesian syllables, it's like more than yeah, it's like two-called from syllables in English, so you really have to squeeze in your meaning. So, you really have to squeeze in your meaning. So it's like it's, it's hard to make up to make sense in one of the word to the other words to it's so, I need to help. Talk about the Baja Indonesia.

I mean, you probably think in English, right, more easily. But the Baja Indonesia, I think, could be, not, what, better, is better than English. Do you think it's richer or it could be richer? I think at least with Indonesia, there's a lot of phrases and words that don't exist in English. Like, like, I like, that's like even the science of it. Wind coming in. Sariawan.

Like, like, many, like, Sarawan sang so light. And it's like weird that you say it in English. Dikrok, you know, so. You know, there's a lot of phrases that are also, you know, culturally specific. But, I don't know, it's, I don't know, I like, I'm going to say, I'm saying, I'm English,

but in there, I'm more than I'm more than more than I know, but I don't know what is it in Indonesian? I know, but I don't know we don't speak Indonesian. Go to Google translate, then I'm like, okay. But I don't know, it's like,

I actually know a lot more words in Indo that I don't know the English of or that I forget the English of, than vice versa. You should think about writing a song. a song based on those. That's true. Like lost in translation. Yeah. I'm sure you've got a compilation of lots of, you know, funny sounding or unique sounding words.

A lot of songs that I've written are actually like phrases in Indonesian that I change to English. Like what I said Sariawan is like the essence of cloud. So, you know, it could have like a metaphor or something. Oh my God. Right? Oh my God. It helps when you have no idea. Yeah, it's just.

Massoc, too. Hey, when you write, you come up with the lyrics first or the melody first, or the rhythm verse? I tend to do both at the same time, because it helps with... Both, what, melody and lyric. B'er, when you're going to get up to bea-noticed, not-capped-a-kubankan or a kiddiquetan. Oh, I've never told this to anyone, because I just remembered. Good, we need this. Oh, yes.

When I wrote L of You 3000, originally it was straight out of a Marvel movie. And I was like, ugh. And then I changed to Hollywood, right? And I realized, oh, like I had to change the way. So originally it was sung differently. And I changed, can you do that again? It sounds really awesome.

It was like Marvel movie. And then I had to change it, Hollywood movie. Which I think it made it better in a way. Wow. It's very like, you know, relationship between the melody and the lyrics. So I tend to write together. Has there been a time when they clashed? Like you wanted the melody to go this way and the lyrics to go this way.

So I have what I like to call a musical thing that I really like, which is when the second verse is different from the first verse and it's more like rapy. It's very Ed Shirin-esque. You know, when he comes in, it's more like... He's a genius. And so I really like that. But sometimes my melodies tend to be more slow. And so I always have to find the balance of

not going to go-monging the cepot and there rap but it's still, and not even though, like, woo-woo, like, woo, so... I've never been a song that's a little raping. I think straight to you, verse two, the other... Okay, well, it's... It's a...

...bidda better... ...you're rather malo, because it's like, If I'm going to talk, I'm a little bit of a little in every language, apparently. Okay. You've mentioned some of the Indonesian singers, right, that have influenced you. Surely your mom. But what about globally? I know you're a big fan of Jackson.

You can talk about that or you can talk about others that have influenced you. Yeah. Well, it's like, it's a weird mix because if you want to talk about me, from little, that even until now is definitely Ed Sheeran. I remember, I had his discography. And it was like, I remember I listened to his old EPs. And what was cool about him is, even until now, he makes songs that anyone can like, no matter what age, no matter what background.

Right, from nene, nene, until little bit. Yeah, and it's really nice. I like that. And it's also not just straight-up pop. It's like, it has influences and backgrounds. And it all stems from his hobby. His hobby was music, like. And so that's definitely one.

But I think when I was, I want to say, 16 or 15, I got into K-pop and that was actually, this is really embarrassing, but I started making songs. Like I said, I wanted to be a producer and a writer. Right. It was because I wanted to be a producer for K-P-Po. That was my dream. I wanted to produce for K-Pop bands. And so.

Because you wanted to be or you thought you could? I don't know. It was like, it would be a great, because I feel like when you listen to K-Pol, it's so detailed. And so it inspired me to be able to produce very detailed music. And I remember. And then I took a producing class. And then I wrote Elev3,000 midway. And so I had to quit halfway because I had to go to America.

But yeah, it all stem because I like hip-hop. Wow. Jackson was one of them. Yeah, got seven. And he sang your song. He did. It was really cool. and it's really nice to see people you look up to appreciate your work.

Oh my God, that's like, ooh, goosebumps. It's so meta. Yeah. It's like, I see you on my computer screen and now you're here singing my song. What's going on? Oh, I think more, more of that is going to happen to you. It's crazy. I can see you doing a duet with Ed Shearn someday.

I can only pray. Sooner rather than you think. Amen. I mean, that would be amazing. But also I feel like one of the greatest things is because like as an Indonesian, it's also like, dude, like an Indonesian singing with someone, it's really cool because I'm so used to seeing Americans singing with Americans. And then, you know, people... But don't really much, for sure.

But when I'm little, like I've never seen people from different countries or ethnicities work together. Does that make sense? Any American singers you've collaborated with? Not yet, but I've met so many of them and like I love working with people. So there's a lot of like talk, but it was just like, you know, everything's like pausing right now, but definitely like it would be a dream and a lot of them are super nice.

And so I prefer working with like really nice people who aren't necessarily like the biggest because I feel like when you do that Nyangu. Yeah, it's for genuine reasons. I feel like, one of the things I learned is to don't make, don't like, mark music with this like idea of having it to be successful. Right. Because my first song, I'm,

this, this, I'm, like, my first song that I put out, I really wanted to be successful because I was scared that if it wasn't, it meant that I wasted my gap ear. You know? And so when I came with L-E-T-000, I was like, Passerad, de. The first, you want to make success, not-poh-poh-oh-oh-da-gene-pah. That's what it happens.

So it's like you have to keep it genuine, right? Let it all. Yeah. People can hear when you're just trying to, like, get a cash grab, so we've got to make sure just chill in. Yeah. And be genuine. You talked about that.

Yeah, for sure. But I think you definitely need to go through something that, like, breaks your, like, expectations. Okay, talk about this. I mean, inevitably, you're walking into a space where there's just ants trying to get a hold of you, right? Whether you're in Jakarta or whether you're in LA, right? It's got to be more difficult now to basically block out. Talk about that. Because you're here now.

Maybe a couple of years ago you were here. Right? Now there's more ants that are trying to. swarm into you. It's very quick. And I do still feel like I try to see the best in people. Because you need to, you know, in a word like today, you need to still be positive thinking,

still have a positive mindset. But, you know, maybe call me naive, but I also feel like so far I've met a lot of good people and so far they've been really supportive. And obviously, you know, people have their own agenda. but you never really know what circumstances they're in to have those agendas. And so I just hope that anything that I can provide them is positive and, you know, won't ruin my life. But I also feel like if you if you give good energy, maybe people will, you know.

What goes around comes around, right? Yeah. And you've got your mom, you've got your system that basically help protect you from the noise. The unnecessary noise. Yeah, that's one of the perks here. It's like, it's people, even when I wasn't anyone, it was very easy for people to not mistreat me because they knew that, you know,

even though this is like really bad in a way because then it's like, you know, they're treating me not for who I am, but for someone else. There are some perks that I won't deny, you know. Yeah, that's true. So, and what other instruments are you thinking of maybe picking up other than guitar? Hmm, I really want to play bass, but... The double bass or the guitar bass?

Okay. Or bass guitar, rather. But at the same time, it's like, I feel like, um, you know, Here's the bad part. I am a huge fan of just using a computer and so now if I have a desire to write a song with a certain instrument I just go on my computer and do it there Which, you know, obviously doesn't sound as authentic, but it's enough sometimes. It works and so a lot of the times when I want to learn a new instrument I just always end up not doing so Yeah, so that's one thing I need to work on for sure. No, the reason why I'm pushing on this is is that I think you're be kind of cool to see you on stage holding on to an instrument.

Like a triangle, like... Angklung. I used play uncle. My dad taught uncle in class. I was just kidding. I think it would be kind of cool for you to play an instrument and singing. That's true. Don't you think?

I really want to. I think it definitely takes like... So the thing is I think I'm okay with playing guitar. But you know when you play guitar enough, your hands start becoming tebill? Yeah. For some reason, it's still thin and so it hurts all the time. I'm still waiting for that moment when like I play every day and so it's weird that it's not growing. Maybe you gotta pick up the flute.

Like Lizo, that'd be cool. Serulling. No, I don't know, it's just my thinking, but you sound great without a musical instrument. But I totally get what you mean. It's like, I would totally also have fun way more. Because it's just like another thing. I tend to get like really bad stage right. So it's another thing to focus on, I guess.

You get nervous still? Yeah, especially if people know me. I would rather perform somewhere where nobody knows me than if people know me. Because they'll judge you. In a way, but I think it's also because letting people down, I feel like when they don't know you. You know, they have no expectation. I see. You're just a random, like, singer.

You know, so maybe if I focus on like a guitar or something, I would, I would lose that. You get stage fright more here or in the US? Here, definitely. Because there's more people that know you here? Yeah. Maasas, see? Yeah. It's a...

Okay. I remember I performed twice here, Pantas, thisini. And it was really dug-dekan because I knew they were waiting for I Love You 3000. And so I was scared that the moment I sang it and I said, oh, wrong lyric, or I stopped half a song. or the malfunction that it would ruin their experience of the song because I feel like, you know,

people were like expecting it so much and thank God nothing happened and it would, you know, smoothly but it's really scary as well because it's like I don't want to ruin someone's experience, you know. You have not. I hope I will not. I think you're on the right track and you're on the right path. But tell me more about your song writing. I want to peel the onion here because how how how prolific you are. It depends on what you eat or what you hear or what you read or just it's random. You can sometimes write two songs in a day or you can sometimes write one song in two months. What drives that?

I think a large part of it is emotions. It's very hard because I would like to be as genuine as possible that every single song of mine has some backstory. right but my life my love life is very boring I'm a very happy child you know I'm happy being alone and I'm happy you know what I mean and so it's hard to keep writing about the same things over and over again yeah you want to write a sad song but you you you have an experience heartbreak in a while and so it's hard to tap into that so what I've been doing is I just watch movies and hope that like I get that feeling to be like simulating the experience but yeah I've been writing a lot

about, I feel like from from, I feel like, from you three thousand was more influenced or inspired by your theatrical experience, not your real experience. That's true. It's what you imagined. I mean, you talked about a husband and a thousand, right, the way they rhyme, but it's got nothing to do with your personal life. Right? So there is a separation here between your inspiration from your theatrical life, vis-à-vis that of your personal life. It's sometimes I feel like it's a bad thing.

It does, but it does sometimes make me feel bad as a songwriter because it's like being fake. Is that weird? Yeah. But it's also how I survive, you know. It's a if I don't do that, then I can't write about anything. And it's, I don't want to put myself in situations that might hurt me just so I can write a sad song. Does that make sense?

Because then I'm like using other people, which is really bad. But like what I said is I've always written songs about love. And because now a lot of things are going on, I've started writing songs not about love and about, you know, situations like what's going on and being lonely at home and missing my friends and stuff. That's cool. What do you think will be the next theme of your musicality? I feel like my life in my bedroom, definitely. It's like, because I feel like, I'm mega, like, okay with being alone. If it's my choice, does that make sense?

But when it's, like, forced upon me, it just, it causes, like, something going on in my head. and ultimately it does make me right. And so I've been writing a lot about feeling, you know, trapped, but also sometimes feeling the most free at home. And I feel like a lot of people can relate to that. And so I hope maybe it can be a song to accompany people. But we'll definitely see about that. What's the most number of songs you've written in any given time?

I think at one point I wrote like three, one day. No kidding. Yeah. And it was, I mean, I think it's the same reason I was really adamant at like doing schoolwork is because when there's like an authority figure telling you that they need something. Yeah. Or even a friend telling me they need something. I will do it because it's like for someone else's benefit. And I remember it was because it was because my, my mom's manager was asking like, hey, do you have any other songs that that you have just, you know, because she wanted to hear? And so I immediately wrote three just to show her. But if it was like my own desire...

Would have been different. Yeah, I would not care. How did what? What's total? Lago that's an issue, though. I feel like there's a lot of songs that's illang. They just live in my memory. You don't type them, write them down, or what?

I remember... I had a lot in my old laptop, but I remember I was in class. Then, tibed-bubed up the laptop. So, like I'm up just, okay, this is like, there's lesson, and I was playing, like, a video in the background. Those could have been your future hits. True. Well, at least I love you, Trita-Lam.

But I'm really, I think, really, but I'm like, like, it's like, talked, too, right? So we have to evacuate the class. Yeah, and then apparently it was because the board inside like melted, like, it was overheating.

Yeah, it's not, it's, or, or, or, yeah. Because it melted on the thing. On the thing. Hard drive. Yeah, I don't know what it's called. Ouch. Yeah, but...

Okay, of the songs that you still have, how many? That you can sort of like pick up from your laptop that hasn't, you know, burned. Okay, I guess I really don't know, but what I can tell is I have a folder right now of songs I've written the moment I went here for quarantine. Yeah. And I have 33, but most of them are... It's pretty good. It's not the best, but I mean, it's not zero. That's good for three albums or four albums.

That's true. But if they were all good, but most of them are... And when is your next album coming up? That is the question. I think it's really difficult right now because I feel like the music industry is so, you know, like, you plan just because of what's going on. And so I can't really say anything, but definitely I'm like working on a bunch of things. and so once something's going on, I will let you know.

The world will know when something is brewing. It's hard to say. I feel like, I feel bad because, you know, all my fans are like, Kapani, and I'm like, I don't know, I'm sorry. Well, I wasn't, you know, trying to put pressure on you. But I just think right now is a great downtime, right, to start tinkering and creating, right? It's true. And it's all about having that optionality of releasing, you know,

be it next year or whenever. For sure. And yeah, I feel like it's also a great time to give people. That's why I feel like people who work in the entertainment industry right now, if you're providing entertainment, it's a great thing because a lot of people just want entertainment right now. I mean, the reason why people are going out is because they're bored. And so they have something to entertain them at home. Yeah.

Maybe it will, you know, help them get used to the lonely. You know, I got friends here and, you know, overseas that. that are in this industry. But, you know, they're having a tough time. You know, they used to gig like two to three times a week. Now it's like you do it over Zoom, you can't monetize. That's so true. It's their welfare has been adversely affected.

Yeah, especially session players. But they were like the core of like a performance, you know. You wouldn't have a performance without your favorite players to play with. And it sucks because at the same time, it's like, It really sucks. Yeah. I just, you know, people are trying their best by creating these like live concerts. Yeah.

But to what extent will it help? I mean, I've attended some of these, you know, concerts on Zoom and all that. Bede-dala, in than if we're really, to restaurant or cafe or what. So, and that's, do you have any views on how to fix that as a musician? I think it's a really difficult thing. But yeah, I feel like that's something I definitely need to look into. I think a way my mom has definitely been helping is she's tried to do as much like Zoom concerts as possible and involving her, you know, players. But yeah, do you have any suggestions, even like to me as to how I could help?

I don't. You know, I talk to some of these guys who it's a struggle. And I think the key is. I hate to say this, but they've got to rely on some sort of social safety net. Right? And it's got to come from the government. Yeah, right? Yeah, can't be it. If not, how do you know, if he'd be gique two, three,

four, five times a week, in hotel, or in restaurant, in bar, or what? And you know, you're not going to be able to get money over Zoom, unless you have a hit, you know, which you can basically release on Instagram or YouTube or what, where you can monetize. The session musicians, I think, are the ones hurting. Yeah, for sure. It's, and also, you know, like stage managers and lighting people. It's, you assume that the music industry relies so much on the artist itself, but it's actually a collective, you know, group of people.

And I feel like people tend to forget that. Yeah. Because as musicians, you know, we have our streaming stuff. which isn't always how people make money, but sometimes it's enough. There's some of the musicians who have what, they're having what, yeah, khappling, or can be doing, or maybe, you know, or what, that I think creates options.

But for many others, unfortunately, they're just like stuck with relying on music. And that, I think, is a, pretty painful. Because no one's ready for this, you know. Like no one knew this was coming. And so there was never an option for another thing. You know, at least in our lifetimes, it's pretty highly unprecedented.

Yeah. You know, this kind of happened about 100 years ago, but, you know, it's been a long time. Hey, talk about 88 rising again. They give you a timeline or, you know, at so-and-so date, you've got to have written how many songs and we've got to have release how many albums or what what yeah i think they're they definitely give me goals okay it's never like a like a do-or-d-eye situation but it's always pretty broad yeah pretty broad and they know that i work best under pressure and so you know they they do it because i told them like hey i need you to tell me when but um definitely like you said right now it's it's

kind of like slowing down everything but yeah it's uh it's a it's a it's a it's a they know that I do not believe in albums I believe in singles and EPs because I feel like to have an album you have to have a very strong story and message which I don't think I'm ready for

I think I don't have that idea in my head yet and I don't want to put out an album just because you know and so you know which is also nice because then I can focus on like projects at a time instead of like a bunch of songs

But yeah, it shouldn't be too long, I think. I hope so. I hope so, too. You get any feedback or advice from Rich or Nikki? I think all they were telling me was just like, keep the good work. You know, they're very nice people. And they were very supportive and very happy that like another Indonesian is coming to. diversify the music scene in America.

Sering, get to meet, when in LA? Um, I mean if there's, like, festival or what, like, oh, just festival, but if you're, but if you're, not, not, not, because it's the same way, like, especially in school, like, I'm very much stuck with my own group of friends.

And, um, so when I was in LA, hangat the end of the, with my, my kids' school, I'm going to, especially because a long time, not a long time ago, but when I was graduating, I got into UCLA and I really wanted to go, but I didn't end up going in. That's a great school. And so I have friends in UCLA now that I hang out with, and then I'm like, oh, I'm going because.

Did you defer your admission? I ended up taking UBC and then I deferred there, but... In Vancouver. Yeah. That's a great town. It's really cold. I think the moment I realized, I was like... Oh, don't go in the winter.

That's true. But isn't like the summer is also cold? Not too, pleasant. I'm so used to Jakarta heat. That I'm like, like, like, like, like, that I'm like, like, like, L.A. is perfect. It is. I really like it. It's basically, Jakarta if it's not as humid.

Yeah. Okay, now let's talk about the future. Mm-hmm. Okay. Where do you see yourself? like five years, 10 years. I might even stretch it to like 25 years from today, but we can take it one step at a time.

All right. I think I definitely see myself writing for other people, you know, as also writing for myself and making more music. I would really love to create like a support system here in Indonesia. to help people, you know, grow their music out internationally. You know, I think it's definitely still seeing what happens. I feel like sometimes when I try to have dreams, they end up not happening. So I'm just like, chill in, you know, hopefully.

Don't understand. Don't know. I feel like sometimes a lot of the times when I, so what my dad used to do was like, close your eyes. Imagine in 10 years' time you woke up in the morning. What do you see? And so I would tell him, I see I'm in an apartment, I'm making eggs, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I go to work in an office building. I'm not an office building now.

So it keeps changing for sure. But definitely something that will help out the, you know, help out people. You see yourself five years from today already in the producing side of the game? We're still in the singing side of the game or both. I think both. I think that would be my first. my best, my dream would be to do both. And maybe one day having a collective of producers,

that would be really cool. And like, if you can, from, like, different parts of the world and, like, you know, have another Indonesian. That would be cool. I mean, you see a lot of producers in Indonesia right now that are doing so well. So that's really cool. So that's really cool.

I know we're genius with their song Latif. Really cool. And I know that Gamaliel, produces as well, really cool stuff. And I, Petra Sihombing, really like his music. It's, it's like, folky, which is really nice to see because it's like, if you don't want pop, you know, it's really nice because he does such a great job of, like, making folkies things still sound radio-friendly. Would you experiment into stuff like that? For sure. I think, that's how I've been feeling as well. It's like, if I wrote anything that's like way too pop or

I feel like it's a disservice to the genuine feeling that I have. You're service to your talent too, right? Yeah, it feels ungenuine. It's a, you know, I feel like if I put out a song like straight to you right now, not connect. Like, like, I love it, like L'Fi, Chill, bedroom-type music, like, Would you do All of You 3000 with a different kind of beat? I don't think so.

Agasuaia. And also, I feel like the reason why people like it so much was because it was so simple. It just had a guitar and effects. It's so good, don't touch it. Right? That's the attitude. I think, you know, I feel like a lot of people try to,

otak-hatig just, you know, if it's for fun, yeah, yeah, don't do not get to go. It's cool. It's good. I feel like if I right now can tell you what I don't like about it, like production-wise, then I would change it,

but I wouldn't say, there's anything I really dislike about it. What about straight to you? Straight to you, I think. Would you alter the... I would love to, like, try an acoustic version. I was going to say. I'm a huge fan of acoustic versions of...

Like, a lot of the songs I listen to are actually acoustic versions of the... I think, I don't know, I really like focusing on the lyrics of songs. And that's why I really like Ed Shearer, because he made acoustic pop its own genre, right? Gila. This is Endgame. The episode Endgame, berikutna.

People would think, oh, but, you know, it's like one thing. But yeah, when you, when you, like, when you, for example, need basil, you would go to the store and get a plastic packaging, right? Right. You know, so it's that plastic. It's not the basil itself. It's...