Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Maudy Ayunda: The Power of Insecurity

Episode Date: April 27, 2022

Memahami jalan berpikir Maudy Ayunda yang jarang kita dengar sebelumnya. Dari mengenali konsep diri, ide-idenya untuk inovasi pendidikan hingga pentingnya membarengi 'passion' dan harapan dengan pemikiran kritis. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #MaudyAyunda ----------------------- Saksikan dalam versi video: https://endgame.id/maudy Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me/6282133365263 Info pendaftaran program Master of Public Policy di SGPP Indonesia: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504

And I, by the way, by the way, the words, I love hate. Hate-hap-hap-na? Hate-ne-hap-na-haping is, don't even people think that passion is something that's something

deep inside, and then we're trying, when we're not we're not making, we're just powerless. Because,

kind of, I think, Maybe it's something we can also have a this is a good. Hello, I'ma'n't many people, I'd say to social med. I want to contribute to Indonesia

that's more than in 2004-5. It's why from where? Maybe one of one of the one of my one of my policy That's the important public policy. is definitely also policies right.

And to deliver it, Taddy, but too technology, but too money, and puttow policy. Now, the problem to make-mockensate

we can't we'll actualisersersikin solutions for various permasalhan, apalaguerg not only in the government, but also in

the world ushaha, and non-profit. Manton Sechian P.B. Bankimun, Presidentry Singapore, Lichin-Lung, and journalist Richel Meadow. All right now lullesan jurorses of public policy.

SQPP Indonesia, school public policy first in Indonesia with the language-pangar-bassizabeth, is now-bucked-upac-enermenegas-a-uped. For detail, on the program and how to beafter, or secedarer per consultations about rencana career with the people to the link that's in description. Now back to the show.

Hello, people, today we're in here to get-dagan, a manuiting, a person people who's great-bishop-muda who's great-bent. Maude, thank you. You're so much an honor to be here. We're talking about, you. We're about.

We know. We say, we'reaweighat, of your life you. Singat just. It's a school in Alisar, to anywhere. Silan.

Okay. Yeah. Lahir in Jakarta, S.D. it was at Al-Azar, that time, but in the Tengue Tijuana Plus,

school National Plus. Yep. And then, two years last, two years, in International School, at BIS. Okay. Then, in the S-I in Oxford,

after that, back again to Indonesia, after that S-2, the last year, in Stanford, and after, and I'm doing business and pediccan. But, maybe, the context that's

that's that's that's, I'm, I, too, I'm being with the entertainment, so, yeah, so... ...same, so... ...maint film, and, also, and, and sobago, and so. You're also.

You know, can't? Yes, can music, can acting. What's what makes you look at all kinds of bigotie? And, and mowasay, too. Maybe there are two, yeah, the first.

It's actually a mix of opportunity and luck, pastrish, sir, because because I was casting, and the first time I was scout to, I was like to hear of the PIM. In PIMs 1. And...

Iseng just, though? It's even, really, to buyer, to what? No, like, iseng. So, like, in restaurant. Wow. I mean, I'm going to? You know, you?

You know, basically, you know, I guess I'm just here. Gany-Kin'n't know what there was a goodanian to make to atas pangue. and I got you, Alicia Keys. then, then I'm going to hear you, and then aftering,

is Om Wysnutama. Okay. Wow. So, long story short, the end, I'm connected with label I'm like, so with the world film,

I'm the first to admit that, good luck, definitely a factor. What you know you know learn to be? Who? I'm from.

Frominacy, because from little, I'm from little, who's like to sing. If I'm upcumptu, there's carolk to, there, carolk.

And then, I'm also was a person so. So, the class in music. Penangue professional. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So, in band or in... Oh, if that, oh, if you had been on TV, ever knew of single-iklan,

that's-git-like-you-tot-you-law. Wow. Even, maybe, not a pen-in-y-law-law-law-law, but she was a professional singer. So that definitely, it's been so, it's also, like, for the kids'-an-an-a-law-a-law.

Hello, my-a-a-musicality? Not music-a. No, no. If-bap, no. If, if, if, if, if, if, if whatever, if you're more about it, okay. You're still. You know, what, who's

who, who amicue you to, do you? Or, it's nothered from? Like, it's, too, more down, which, actually, also, it's support,

not mind, yeah, with the people, when they're when they're looking this, this, this is, this,

this, on the, the, the, the, If there's people, if there's people, it's just with with the booku-that-it-so-you-so-book.

And it's very weekend, we're going to go to-book, so, culture, to read-bac-buck-buke, but I don't know. From the old, I'm really, I'm really,

from from the little, that you consider yourself a nerd? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Oh, yeah? Yeah. Yeah. I'm like that's about you know,

like gundoo or or whatever, or nerd, introvert, very shy, not want to go to the panguong, d'u-notes-pac-pac-pac-you-notes, because, like, perform, that,

so, um, I'm, there, there, she also, shared publicly that,

I'm going to come to come to come on, don't be able just, just like to learn just like, it's just like, it's like, what, it's, what,

so, like, why are you, like, how can you leave your career for school? It's kind of like, huh, how can I leave my school for anything else, that? So, just so, so, I'm going to back,

you know, nerds, it's, kind of, think about this, if, if, if, if, if, you have a lot of the restaurant. Yeah. Would life have been different?

So different. Okay. Different, but maybe not, you got. Okay. Because I'm just like, I'm going to still school at the place

hopefully. Yeah, and I'll still tend to be Pekin'2 and so so, but maybe I'll just be working at a I don't know,

consulting firm or something. something. But, but the young people are not, even, but I'm going to make start-up, so, many of the, I'm going to be able to, eventually.

Dulu, like, the time I, years ago, if you're not at in bank, the company, consulting, contansy, or what,

now, that's, that, lullus, like, just, I don't know what I know what, but from the other than I'm from the

people who I heard, they like the idea of ownership and extreme accountability that's from building a company or a startup, that ownership and autonomy it's like it's more more appealing, but risk. Aversion is more of the more than than before. Right, that's just a structural.

Even if you're going to beadinginging 10, 20 a lot,000 years ago,000 years ago. If, during, 40 years ago, the, when 40 years ago, when you're going to do not evener, get get, be paced, be paksa. Now, not just to do what about it, what they're... Why, that, Pa, Pa, is. Is it's not because of safety net from the community and like that.

Yeah, not even though. If I'm not really, it's a good system's better. Which is liquidity. Duwit is still more much now. Right. Right. Right. Right.

It's a little-magnat, 40 years in Lago. Aphalagher in the negareran maju. What I mean? It's now with, I mean, I mean, it's so much money. they throw money at you. And even even if you're even even if you're actually before, because maybe if you're doing,

with the end uproof-usage, I'm going to strewing. Yeah, it's a pivot, can completely be able to... Butthal. And success stories, you can't. one, two, that's success, too, that's kind of positive to the men's the right. That's it. That's the two attributes, if I'm in fact, I'm going to ask,

so much money pouring in, you know, in the world startup in and also VC. Do you think it's a bubble, personally? A bubble that will burst? not anytime soon. ...elammaid, to netaq the money, and they've got to do it through.

And they've done this for 10-a-town-ter-the-the-court, and there's not-tendantan they're going to runging in a drastically, in the pencatacan-uagued. And this is a bit-a-goreg, which, which,

where they're more conservative, they're more proactive, proactive, to do you know, to make up-pacet. And the most pragmatic, that is, not yetak-duit.

And five-tawn to the past, even 10-year-pand, I think it's still back to be much. Now, in five zone, America, Japan,

, Tyeong-K, U-Ura, that's, liquidity or money breeder, that's more than $100 trillion dollars. So,

So how not smaract, the V-C or P-E, apalagy in Europe, the U.S.U.U.U.S.U.U.N.A.N.E.G.G.E.G. They have to democratize this. Right. Right. And, and, how to be in the young

in Indonesia, want to do not in Parakan, cember, or co-beomen, Aceh, how they can be communication with people who can make who are the people who are about the idea that's about the capital that yeah

yeah but too much, people who are not going to be brilliant than what they're going to be more brilliant than what in the kota but they're not know how much how much. Okay, you're going to be philosophy in Oxford. Yeah.

Tell me about philosophy. That, maybe... Intinging is the key, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay. So, first time to Oxford, it's been really mind-changing, one of the most transformational periods of my life. Because, first time,

just to put it out, first time exposed to system of the learning, maybe, that maybe, maybe, I'm going to give context, Pa, when I was in Oxford, we have to make a week. maybe not even about the book we have to from the chapter,

from the book that's the time that's the time that's the also, so there's professor and there two murat we usually. We've gottack, and then we'll use essay. So,

so it's not can't les. So, kind of, if we're like, argument that's uposite, we're just to argue in the professor this. So, um, so, what, yeah? Tentunuching, and

like, line, and also, all of the badasas, it's like epistemology. The knowledge of knowing, you know, how do you come to know something? How, how do you come to know something? How do we even know?

to exist. How much we can challenge asumsy or presumption – – which, which, which, actually, conditioning, social. What's actually human nature?

Concept, concept, this, for the 18-torn, to, huh? That's, human nature, social conditioning. So, in essence, philosophy,

that's really, really, how I'm not about to make sure to make, it's very critical, because we're just

reading a one one, one one says B, and one says, this is this, we have

have put it's such a challenge that, oh my God, I have to think for what I think. The, culture in Indonesia,

to speak so much or expressi-timur, right? Yeah. Apalagi if it's a majority, and the people of the timur, it's the tendrungan-enronative. Yeah, right? Tarro in the pojok,

surro, be debat with other, that's not gampang. Right, so, so, so. So, it's very transition, too, to have to be debate with my peers. and from the essay of the, I even, I think, there's one book,

Bucon of Rousseau, Discourse on Inequality, that's, that's one of one book that's that's just, some books that, even, even,

it's not Rousseau's most famous, famous book. It's not the social contract. But there's something about it. Because Russo is, intingia, that is not inherent in human nature. So he's like tracing back to the awal, awal, mula, adanusia in the And he's about how we can't the way we can't how is ownership of land first, how did it first come about, and

and, I don't know. Anyway, that book is one of my most, what, memorable ones. We're talking about inequality, y' This is the same can't It's even in the country Begown but in the Nogarmajou This is not just

It's not even panguhi percapable Tentraturedraan But percapable too How that in kubu Disin'i, gomobrowning Bidahed than what the cubo in here

Right Because this, maybe Keseyatrataan is I'm not too. How do you synchronize those? And I'm going to

I'm going to get two phenomena the of the generation that's like under from amnesia

historic yeah, yeah, I'm not with the because they're more chatting one of the other they're a little bachapu

but you're an exception who's an exception who's a lot of and philosophat is kindal with and learn of what what's been happening

what has been before before now. Phenomenal the two is is the the rungitiveness cognitive,

which is more than the more than to make the other ficts. How we're going to be it about the same? The story is really, because if we, actually, um, actually, to look, we can't really,

we can't even make that whatever that's been tried before. You know, politicians have risen and fallen. Not just politicians, but even ideologies. Political ideologies have risen and fallen that, that's also taken for granted,

it's that it's taken for granted, it's, that this status quo and this is the best-beye. If we talk about communist Russia, I've talked about any of these things. So, that's the story that's also feeding into critical thinking, that's really, that's true.

That's, that's what we're going to be, it's, it will, maybe, there's the end of it, because, because there's trauma,

trauma from multi-generations before us, like, the way that democracy was formed and other, so. So, if we want to want, um, when we're about

we're about we're more critical with what we need to be because we know context more more

more where we are in a very, very long timeline of humanity. That's kind of yeah, right.

That's how I would link it. And, yeah. So it's... How do we fix it? I'm I'm biased that's about that's the name's

that's about you're passionate very kind of people like that how this is how this is how so you're going to be generation you can't be able to

rehabilitati and rehabitatsy anything critical I think I'm, and not just just pediggan just

but but the kind of but the curriculum system and and pelejuration it's very very much

it's very much I'm talking when I was I was put exposed to There's like, like, school,

school, local, national plus like in the kind of and international, so I'm really, really, I'm really, I'm really,

that system of teaching, system of-magear that's very very much. Hussususiness, when it goes beyond facts,

so, not only fact and memorization, but also the way think of think of that I think that I'm saying that I'm

I'm saying that's in the that's in context in context of the context of pediggan, don't too tregebuck with how we can formulations but more how we can't

make upar the otak our to be able to make critical thinking yeah, right how we can how we can investigate

something that's already existing. That's if I'm more than that's more for the importance of the education. I don't know, for Indonesia to the important to we can't know two, two, same with four. That's a formulation, but it's also to

to know is, there are more than the prime numbers? Right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. What's it?

Why, this, alam semesta, that is going to push the people, in the social sciences, too, pa, we're,

we're doing different when we're when we're when, ex, X. Yeah.

Dibanding can with, I think, I think, still there's, there's a question in the essay, SMA. It was Hitler responsible for X, you know, argue your point?

This is when in college or at the... SMA? Wow, okay. Narrick. So... Responsible for of the second, in the UGNX and so we're talking about

that's about, what's about, is, can we say that he's most responsible? When we take out this factor? Yeah. Yeah. There's something that's structural, there's something that structural,

and there, and, and, we, we, we, we, we, we, to do you know,

to make-notic-you-you-how-haping, you know, man-wereign, you know, want-n-mau, we have be think, oh, yeah, at that, in German, you know, social context is like what, like, so, really,

right, right, or, like, racial superiority or ethnic superiority, that's, really, really, it's been, because, for things, like that's like Hitler

is because there element of support, like I think it's very different from asking just, oh, you know, when was the first, when this happened, that's, there's two that's really, like,

because, because why, it's, it's, the first, that's maybe, resentment or, or to the people in German with the peace of the Treaty of Versailles,

which is territorial integrity of Germany's in Germany it's a got got disiassati or to compromise, right. And then the second is the Great Depression, yeah, right? that's right in America, but in the way of the United, but in many of the world,

in, in Germany, in the German. Now, if the economy rotok, it's, it's menhanging, or, or,

yeah, and, and that, ... ... ... ...that,

... ...that, that's... ...that ...and backereran narasie, ... ...and, yeah, right? And, it's even nationalistic, or even fascist. And he, Serdado who went to the war in the first,

he looked at the same, perjouangue of the German. And then, when he's spakati, he was in the specatatan Versailles, then, yeah, he'd, he could beir-hop puts, and then he, to the patos that's

with the batinia, wow, this is not fair, yeah, treatment to red hermins. Right. At least he had demo, in the penjara, out more militant. But, yeah, when in the penjura, he's called the friend of mine camp, that, yeah, that's in the penjara.

So, it's, it's the person that's the most the most of the most but there's un-structural, also that's all the ecosystem. Right. Right. You're going to ask as 2.

In the pediggan, and business. Yeah. Can be that, how much? If I was one, maybe, passion-driven. Yep. When I'm going to be PI,

it's because, um, the same a, yeah. Yeah. And, and philosophy, that's the most,

what, yeah, that's more that's-that's-that-that-that-that-you-that-you-the-sdu-like, yeah, because, first of all, that seems to be how people think about it, but with the way of the time, maybe there's pragmatism also, that's what I'm like what I'm like that's what I'm like that's what I'm for communities, and um, at that,

um, my hypothesis, my hypothesis, I think there's something to be done in business, but it's, it's very generalist at that I'm at that I'm looking, I don't,

I don't know if I want to be a generalist. I also I think of expertise deep in a bit of a bidang so that. Bingong. Begum. There's been a lot of expert.

Right. Bingong. Like, what, and I, by the way, with the words passion, really, love hate. Because...

Hate it? Hate it is Don't even people think that passion something deep inside and then we're just to try and when we're not metamooking, we're just making a powerless.

Because, kind of, I think, passion is also choice, maybe it's something we can also have a say in, so. So,

the way of the other than it's more because because of the other than I'm justiccichorah. I think I'm thinking that I think this is a space that you know, needs a lot of support,

that maybe I should be here. Antar two, where are you more? This is, this really, and business when the school. And 50-50, 50-49, 60-40. If you're in the past-a-lop-div-during, from the body-dust, not from the side-battin only.

From the side-batin, actually, actually, in-cary-bonding, maybe to penidican. But, at the school, I will say, I think the business school, did a bad thing. job at captivating the students. Because they're going to go to gajal. Oh, yeah. So, yeah, so I'm going to be,

I'm trying, yeah, I'm very, because, the facets of business, it's also also, and I'm there are people

399 other people who are very ambitious, and with, and idea and jago-gomong,

guru-guron-guron good, good-guron good-haw-hurtle-h idea-sharing, yeah, right, like they're like, like, everyone, too, just back from planet Mars, like,

about about about about about it, about. Right, right, right, this is, this fantasy

that, that's that didjual, yeah, right, in narrations. Right, right,

Yeah, that's. So, because I'ma-like a lot of new-like-a-lawed-crisis, too, but, because, it's a bit like me. Yeah? Really? I want to hear about that.

Because, again, the narrative, that you know, you can do anything, you're big shots, it's not coming from a place of humility. I mean, it's not, when that, because of the same-that-a-saint-a-saint-a-think-past-ty-bis-be-an-entrepean. But, in practice, it's always always better.

So, when I'm actually, you know, like, can I actually do it? What I actually want to do? So, I'm going to do, like, what do you? Do you know, the crisis of Bapa? Yeah, I was like that's in the music, and then, yeah, not-bole-hiresh, with the mother, pindahcuntansy. Okay, that's good.

And, school business, then, school public policy. But, when I'm going to S2 in public policy, also. I'm still the class music in the city of the same

right in the heart batin'n't to get that. Then, when you're just, I'm being wrong, me, what, but yeah,

to find us a suap nassi, yeah, just pragmatis just, yeah, but, yeah, it's just,

yeah, it's just, back again to the world, the, community, the,

music, musis, musis, So now, in the world but now, but you know, if you know,

if you're in school, the faculty pediggan, this is not generalization, but the how guru

berkisah or menarasica, narration, that's better with with car with the school

of business. And I, there, there, there, there, There's a lot of the in the

two bidang in and I can't feel like if I'm using the way that's the way in the bidang in

the student that the reaction the reaction better oh it's it's

it's not this yeah right because they maybe they're used with

guru guru other who maybe not never of the other, and this relates to the book that you've just covered the originals by Grant. You can't go on congenation, delays,

then quantity over quality, and the divergence of ideas. So, this, it's actually, it's the same. I'm going to beckxerance of my own about the two books. book called The Outliers who's made up against early specializer. Right, right, yeah.

But there's one other other this book, The Range, by David Epstein, who made depotent kind of hypothesis or theory that you're more better better than late specializer. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right? specializer, or late specialization,

nimbung, with two attributes the last that's been based grant, y'y, over quality, and divergence of ideas. More much we're medongy, more dimension we can coasay,

or we're exposed our own, usually, more okay for our own, of our own specialization. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you know, early specialization or late specialization?

Like, this, because I was, sort of, the- structure, multidimensional. No, no, I'm not,

have, have to beck that based on specialization. Right. Because, because, it's just too,

so, And now, if I'm just like to be crudcute, and, and, and, and, there's very people in the around say, ''Aremowlux, if you're going to school,

if you're a career, be a career, that, not-b-b-b-b-b-b-a-b-b-d-d-d-d-. So, the concept linearity, that, that's linear, you should focus as soon as possible, and, and, sogain-gain-y-near. But, but from the other than the

from the other than I'm actually, activity of the other than just acting, it's only adds, to the richness in the way that I think, maybe. And, the other, and the other artists. You're very different from many of the other artists

in the way you think. think the way you speak yeah and and this is not an expression of which one is better it's just different yeah yeah and then and then and and and again um and and even so far only adds, that even if I discuss with label side and so it's only a not positive, so yeah, um, I think that's like that's... But I know, this, okay, like, I'm...

I'm... I'm thinking that late specialization that's correlates with capacity to more... ...untook more mitigating risk which is syntenic. I love that. Yeah.

I love that. Yeah. Where if we're in a really specializer, we're too, specialized, can't be said it's like, it's like, it's the trenderunan that's bad.

It's there. It's about if we're going to expose our own own, many, or many times, the risk of the blind spot, it's more small. Now, So that.

So for the long-demeanional, it's more than we're multi-dimensional. With the other than in whatever-pun, yeah, right? Yeah, yeah, belajola, keh, be-beach-baccae, learn-paccaimed, or belajured acunansi or what,

and we're expose our own with more dimension than before it, that's more more capacity our capacity to to be able to

blind spot, or the other's bad spot. Yeah, that's true, and there's one, there's one dimension that's men that's mental resilience, too, I'm

I'm not, but having one single identity makes you very vulnerable. vulnerable. Yeah. Atta-auntity is gagged or fall apart for one reason or another. Yeah.

But, but at the time we, we're associating our identity our, I am a father, I am a doctor, I am a son, I am an athlete,

miscellan, mental resilience, that's more quite, because we're just ...amiliki self-worth, it's not only one identity. I would take it a step further. This is... ...it not resiliency just, but anti-fragilitis.

Bede-dall, though. If you're resiliency, it's tahan banting. But if if anti-fragilitis, in banting, he lompat more high. Yeah, right? I just through the more multidimensionality

it's been even we can make buhackleotism not just resiliency in whatever context possible Indonesia, it's

done there's been there's trying many many in the decade the Asian financial crisis in 2008. Then, yeah, it's... Yeah, much, like,

as we've been doing democratization since the time of 2008, it's many times, but we're not only resilient, but we just too, it's like, it's, like, you know, more than people think, or what we can do that we can do before.

I want to talk about, let's drill deep, deep, super, like this is where your heart is. And then, like, I think, this is this is very much to be amalgamacized can, with the ajaran in school business. I see yourself as being big in edutek. Inevitably, it's a matter of time.

It's a matter of time. just in ramo, this, right? Two is the endgame. Yeah, and that's the end game. Yeah, now, this is, it's, you know, how you, you know, to be able to bembing

or mongonged the mass of the United States to the front, this, about this, about business, about education, then,

How much? When I was in the S2, aspirations, as much as what I said that's about business and the education, so going into ad tech, so, in theory,

ad tech is, it has a potential to transformation in Indonesia. In-sittance-tornation time, and also, and also, that's not has to be a trade-off in time because of technology,

accesses and it's because of scale, but also quality-nesses can be be taken care, so. So, so, it's, there'spiration at that, that's like that. But now I also have some humility

the sense that when I'm first I'm back back back technology, for now, is it's not true the way that's true, the way, for example, for idealism of

education that I had been maybe I had been miliki so. So, So from the very, very tech-centric. I want to do a startup, I want to do all these things. Now, like, shifting, not just because it's

but more like, hey, let's revisit that. Mugkin this is from the from the time, merhatica, start-up, start-up, in Indonesia, who, because the VC model,

the VE-gaport model, the pressure, have been pushed to focus on the commercial, the profitability side of things, so I'm more than motivation, this is this, is, is,

whether, re-laping, really, we're, we're giving, This is getter, okay, okay, then. You know, are we going to let that be driven by investor interests? And by the way, I'm also an investor. So, you know, I have no, I understand,

but that's what I'm like I think, more down, like, like, I'm going to do you know, and when it's a tech element, also like, like, like, I'm I'm maybe more appreciation about complexitas yet, you know, so I'm sorry,

I'm feeling saddh, if I, if I'm starting something, if the name of startup, it's, then 10 years. I mean, yeah, typical it's lifetime for, for, actually, that, that, if,

if, if, motivation's, it's, it's, it's, focus, it's, Focussing is not even quality education, not access and democratization and all of these things. Pendauran,

Ullang-Modal. So it's the philosophy, investas, the fund-pung, attack, this is just about how they have to end up to dole up to $1,000 to 10-10 and to be tabrackan

with, maybe, with the importance of the more than the more than more than 10 years. Right. Yeah, right. But it's just to cupas, right? Right. Right.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I'm looking... Mm-hmm. I'm looking... ...I'm going to be able to be about.

But I try to wrang-hmm as-hung-hmm That's not even if you're hanging fruit. I'm looking at how people Indonesia can be communicating with communities international. I mean, I'm looking, critical thinking, intellectual curiosity that can be drive.

If we can't make an open to look at any other from anypun. to find out of the truest form of the democratization of ideas. Right. We're right. We're justin with paradox which democratization information

that's not yet not yet we're not getting democratization either. We're if you're from ribu-an canal. But, why idea is to polarization the right,

the right, and the centera, the spectrums, it's very bad or bad at the sysi. Tenghs, this is the manhawakhan, or manusia. Now, that, if, I mean, I think,

the part of the education in there, is that, it, is very, to bring, to, manusia to center. And, and, redistribusy,

so that's the whole spectrum to the idea, idea, that's great. Yeah. Now, this is long. If I'm in fact that, you know, how you can be abhasa,

bahasa whatever, so that you can't communicate with anyone, upon, and you've got an idea. And penguasan banishable international in Indonesia, it's more than the other than the Asi and the Asi-Tengarra.

That's not. If you've got to becapy, vocation is, it, will be it's going to be it. If you're at a ginawanaean international, the puncaked in pre-COVID, to 15,000.

Past, COVID, it's not not even, not it's not to 150, 20-bate. Can you can't be able to barista, receptionist, conciergeist, tour guide, supir, that has been able to beaise international. That multiplication is, is the gila. That's, that's if I'm going to bea-hanging fruit.

Yeah. How, this, people bebeckali with capacity with communications So if there's people from Congo, from London, from Nebraska, from Korea, from Japan, from Nanjing, or from anywhere, they can't be communicated. Now, now, the next thing is more dark. Hello, friends, thank you,

has been a seta endgame. Check release the new from Future Narrator's merchandise collection and docung to continue to make sure the idea of the narrator, narator,

kren, and link of the consignanan are in description. Now back to the show. And I'm sure, because Bapa, um, what yeah,

not just about about in the language context just a certain group that's really access, but just per-improvement from A to B

we're talking about from zero to one, you go, that's the yeah yeah that's the spot and I'm going to I like pariwisata

because that's the the most of the way of the way to bring up the land of the city neta can't, to make uphackan work on the world pari-wisata per-lapagan-courgene-courgut-court but if in manufacture,

it's $150,000 to $250,000. So, the investation that's the cost of course, it's little. Yeah, right? And how, you know, we're, you know, we're just-un-un-in-in-in-itus. Stabilitas, too. Stabilitas, too, can't be able to be able to be able to

if every person to have a packat on the table. Yeah, right? Thailand, to, every time, can't gettankan 40 jute, wissatawan international. It's only a matter of time. Before Indonesia, it's been

about 150, a year. It's a bludek, too. And that's de-visa and the pembouhan of the work and allan. Then, after that, how to we can win Nobel? Right, right.

Yeah, right? Yeah, Menang Grammy, Menang Emmy, Menang Oscar. And, yeah, yeah, a digress,

a little. We, we're as a Muslim-the-drewsafe-the-dunuched with tolerance, get-buk-and- moderacy.

Yeah, we can be per-peran, but if I see in context Pemenan-N-N-Nobel, 630-an, in the bidang science, 60s percent,

were the menacken by Nasrani or Christian, 23, 24 percent by the Jews, 0.5 percent by Islam. This is not statement religion or spiritual, but this is as a impetus to us to us

to show can geterbukan toadap illu. And this isambung, with the Yeah. And... And perfifixir

as far as we've been back. Yeah. What's other? What I mean? Nadeh. I'm going to go about about... ...theirch... ...you know about it how many?

I've been a few times gom... ...tenting for us to prioritize quality of guru ...dibandingingan quality of murid or curriculum. Mm-hmm. So when I'm even I'm even when I'm exposed because of the same-posed

because of pindas-colach. I'm bethutal I'm really, I'm sure, the impact on the same way, but also, but also, be interruption.

Even how so-keel it. Now, maybe this I'm a bit contrarian, because... I like contrarian. But this is a one of a new-hanging fruit,

that's a good-a-fouk, is that I believe that there's things that we can supplement, this is, it's in the teacher training, or resources that's given to a person, or to a person guru, that's a guide

for guru-to-its-you-hmm, to make-a-grapa-lis-a-grapa. It's really, there's ur-urut-unut-unction of concepts. At this, you have to ask the students, is, what you, what you have to be, it's like,

this is that's like, this is that there's, there, there, there, there, there, there, if there's formula,

there's something that maybe can be plug and play. Yeah. This, this, you know, hanging fruit again. can supercharged the average teacher

only with, to gethirted algebra, to start with A, then to B, then to C, a bit more than little to topic this, then back to this, and thentunner, idealisman, teacher's

It's It's the sameirical for the same thing but there I'm like there there's a big of my opinion that will take forever and also

what what that will take a lot of time and definitely not low hanging so. So maybe there's something that's low hanging for, maybe there's something that's low hanging in here.

The other than play in So, I mean that's actually to medibbutt now, as I know have many initiatives that they actually have a teacher app so I thought I, so that's

to make it. So that's a good start but that's a good start but what I think is content. We need to be. to have curriculum experts, that's that's put-in, but also,

both materi, and also formula for the way to teach topic, these things are very specific, so on. So, so, so algebra, there are uruttony, you start with this, you start with this, and then you send this prompt to the kids, and so baggainte. So in some ways,

I'm not because, because the government is a lot-hanging fruit, but the power of the content just that I really, really, has to be able to be able to be able to take. That's, like, that's what, I think I'm going to be attacked, too. Emphasis in platform, you know? Not enough content, not enough curriculum. And again, and also,

it's not be able to be relevant for the penitain manusia to the different, right? Yeah, yeah, that's been done has to be done again. Makkahner, I love tech. I love tech. But also,

don't even like I think what drives me the most, which is content and curriculum, yeah. Okay, so, so there's kindlangue, in the talk about, which, the first, the tabrackan antarckon, into philosophy, investrasy, that has been daug-ulang in duration, which maybe more from the point of the the part of the part of the

second is focus that's too too much to platform or landassan about the content or the personat. Right, or benzin the the other.

And then. And what, this? Hmm. There's always there, but I'm not too. But I'm like, but I'm going to think, if you're going to think, that's, in fact, what I'm in fact that's why,

how to be so excited? Yeah, right? Right. Right. How do you get them excited? Right. I actually really believe that. I really believe that, I really believe that,

How much, how much, but how much more, you know, you sense that's more bottom up or to top down? Bottom up? Well, I think it has to be spurred by top down, that's... In-tangue,

in school, RT, R.W, cabupatten, Cota, Provincy, and Mancahra Nagara. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely, yeah. Especially maybe parents to start with. to start with it.

I'm sure. I'm sure. I'm sure. Most of the world is supplemental. In the school. Yeah. I've ever read Finlandia that, yeah, yeah.

And, on average, check out two books from public library. That's the public library. Not like Kindle, isn't the same, yet, even that they're

didn't even, they're consuming, like, platform, platform technology, so, I was when I read it, it's really,

how these individuals love learning in, there's, there, there's natural love for learning, learning, again, again,

can be developed. If you, you know, you know, I'm going to like to book. If I'm going to about I'm going to about I like to buy a book, inshawalawal there are one,

two people who are who are going to but if you're going in front of 100 people, maybe 90 people, not going to be to beca book. Yeah, can. It could start with you.

How much, how we can't rule-saljū-sul-sul-sul-sul-sha-bud-bac-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-i. And this, again, the problem is, the kind of... You sleep, you sleep for the rest. So when you're sleep, you're work for the rest. When bachan, you can.

One week, if not acara, or not on Netflix, or noton, whatever, now, this, this is not just it's not gampang, to make budaicahed, budaic,

but, but I'm looking, this is more top-down, down from bottom up. I'm from the top of the top of the subpoena. Social, buda, academic, professional, political.

If you gangbussed on this, this, this is this is it. Yeah, right, from 100 people, you know, from 20, 30, people who're going to beckoned book, that's, that's really great

than one, two people. So, I'm gonna'amakin YouTube, I. Yeah. I... One of the one thing I want to make sure that's my book list, that,

that, um, that's, like, intisari, or concepts, concept, concept that I'm really, it's my effort, for first,

you're hanging fruit, too, not-paw-bac-pac-pac-a-pac. Yeah. But if you're not, you've got access to some of the ideas. The second wave's the heartaned. There are some of the bookings.

And I've seen in Twitter and on Instagram, there's some of it. Maybe not everything. And it's made me happy really, if it's like, so there's a lot. Same. Same.

I'm almost every week I post book that I've got to. I'm not but I'm not even if I'm going to hear about it. But if I see one that's just, who I'm saying, oh, pa, I'm going to buy book this. Adhawdh, al-hmdulillah. It's game-changing and life-changing. Yeah, right?

So, maybe, the culture of baca book. That's the long-structural the first, or buddaya, of the other's about the book that's about the book that's about the start of structural to make uphacken the because of the

true from the people how do you see the quality of teaching in Indonesia, the quality of teachers? I think it's also systemic. Yeah. First of all, As a...

socially, the work of teaching isn't considered to be a top job. Yeah. They're not paid very much. Upah not too much. Yeah. ...cuhcoural. Currang mullia.

Now, it's, can, it's probably have implications implications other than the motivation to the other than the people of the level of in that space so.

That's one. The other, I don't know when I have to look into this. I don't know, if this is this training or is, because it's curriculum I actually, I actually, Tessing the test, the way that's questions, it's also the way the teachers teach,

because, because, when the people, it, what, yeah, be lomba, to get the value that the right, at the time that the on the ujian is the question open, ended, and not close-ended. from the more than theuaguerre too much more,

there's another, maybe, a bit more, maybe a different way, from the guru, test, assessment, that's just so powerful, we've got to be assessment, book the book of the same, almost doesn't matter.

Maybe this is too strong of a statement. But, but this is another thesis of mine, So much, so much to equip teachers, or even to pressure and ask teachers to to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to make approach and the other approach and the way that's different, you know. We're, yeah, this, this, this, it's, it's like caset, russack just, if I'm I'm going to say, I've got to talk about 10a-slotan,

that's the guru that's the first of the top of the top of course of their great. When they're going to be able, they're going to ask, you what's going to do? I'm going to go, wow, that's going to. Yeah, right? Singapore, top 20%, and it's imprish really,

that's only if you're going to be in top 20%, he's in a while in a while, he can't have one-half-taharan. If at bottom, 20%, that's a year, to, just one-sett-a-tahun. So, yeah, okay, we have realistice, like we have a good-batasance

in context quality of ajaran, quality of the same-a-jured. But it's not that it's not that, there's a great-in-in-in-in-No-Nusia, but it's. But it's the scale of 280-jutte manusia. Now, maybe we can see a sysati

with pipanization through digital only for people that are 20% pile the highest. If you're in the bottomalachsh, I'ma'u'u'u'u'u'u'a'u'a'a'u'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a'a' for the people for the people, for the for the people, or the matter of our own,

yeah, right, it's maybe, or, it's repurpose, or have to retrain of the people who are on the up to down to beaugh. So, you have to have

a ketegasant, if you're if you're going to do you, go test, test it's just also has curation, it's saring abyss. If you're lus, if you're at least top,

10% the top, okay. If we're not as ambitious, Korea, Salat, but if there's a catagascar like that, mediocrity will linger on. Yeah. Yeah, right?

And, no, no, we're actually not able, so, we're going to the country and the yeah, this is the last. But in the end up to the

end up to the barang of what? Yeah, it's kind of if we've won't 10 Oscars, 10, Emmy, 10, Nobel, 10,

whatever, metric metric that superlative. How, in the other, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm,

really, think, in the unit in the unit of the human being. Yeah. And I'm that I think that I want, I'm in Indonesia, to be empowered, to have...

um, um, um, um, and, that's where, that's where, that's open, I'm out of where to beaithraan also.

And from that, I'm in the United States in 2004-5 is, it's the key in human capital, that's why my bias is education, like, I'm with you, totally. But it's the people, right? The way that a company is also the founders and the team and everybody, a country, for me as I'ma-country,

for meprenuinen, but also, people in the down it. Now, maybe the kumptiona, how we can identify low-hanging fruits study, opportunities where we can disrupt, that's so much of 25 that's about it's a lot of the impact. Because I'm saying,

I'm sorry, with the people who are in the the big of the pediguan, just who's in the Kempetriam, like, as and the sameaguenks, because the impact is not obvious. But the work

that is a lot That's a lot of it's a lot. And critical thinking, it's not. I think, I think, I'm a part of buddhaia. Budaia is a part of the pediccan. And, and, can, it, maybe, to, maybe, to back. And the

is a bigan of buddhaia Bahasa is a bigan from the bigan from buddica buddhaia is a partian and peradaband and peradaband

to yeah nambung with the kind of and not there banksa to be big without human capital in the

in the land yeah right now I'm I'm just I'm just curious what your views are

tendency in many of the that is to be a talenta more based upon patronage not based meritocracy maybe for the for the people for the

people for the people This is, not want, some of them this is to be it, to be in the process politic. Yeah, right? Because politics on the rinsmiring the government

it can can beauched and what even like, if the selection talent that can be being made

based meritocracy, more than the patronace. But if you're not, not in the column that's to make the merit of the world. It's hard, so without political ownership taking. Yeah, this can be able to live service just,

I'm going to make of, wow, we'll be a big of a country and a great. Isn't it? I... I... I'm just too, I'm just too, sir, but, B'am, that I'm going to, I'm like that's like that's like that's like that's like that's

because I'm not even though, too, too, with the idea of, uh, the idea of, uh, a-huh, political,

yeah, yeah. I'm not unique, you know, you represent the majority. Right. Right. Just so that you feel comfortable about what you're feeling. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I, and my, my family's like that's like that's like that's like, because maybe yeah, if you're like, the system, but also implications to personal life and what I'm like that.

But I'm really, if I'm, if there's a young especially from young to to, I'm like, abate really and maybe, hopefully, like one day, if there if there's a case, I will definitely I will definitely explore that.

But, if I'm going to be like that, I'm going to be as of now, actually, to supercharge change and, so much the time of the time, it comes down to the leaders, who, who, who, who, who,

and, and, and maybe, don't even, just to justin' people, to take the way to make a case that that if we're going to be,

I do, I do, I must do this one to make up the other than people in Indonesia, this more of the book. It's more challenging depending if we're going to go over on making perubhaniclim. And people don't realize this. But it's relevant, like, for the future of J&Z and sooters.

Because carbon that's just 2,000 to 3,000 gigaton. If we emissy carbon 60 to 70 gigatone per time, humanity only has 60 years left, give and take, and that's without exponentiality in emission carbon. Now, I'm thinking if the young this know, that they know that they want to backer benzene there's just you just put you

50-60-town, you know. This is the easiest topic to get them excited about taking political ownership. Yeah? Because this is relevant really, for, yeah,

I also have to be live, in 50-60-to-down to be the time. Cechari if there solar panel, nanty, that can bellowed the energy

as much as efficient, effective, what's done by fossil but in the meantime maybe this topic that can be garrang to excite the young men of young.

Because there's commonality. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This, it's extinction centric. Or driving.

And there's an urgency, yeah. Right. And from all that's about that Pagita mentioned, to, or that, you know, behavioral change, that's,

that's really tricky, to collective action problem. Right. Because, there's really people that's not recycling, recycling, one of recycle, no other than a real-aselessness

that comes with feeling like you're the only one who cares. So, yeah, kind of, kind of, top down is not the worst approach, there's a good discipline that be enforced, to, and, it's like a habit-building, long-luck.

So, that's the water the water and then we're going to banjured, when we've been light in AC, poll,

still, still, or still ah, pada, moumpul, too. Wow, this

need to get to that, that's the Yeah, this is also to get-ming with the importance of education. But I'm looking at, it's the most the most important to uniltsyching.

Yeah. Not only a new year, right. And now, how young men are you know that the catarbatasan carbon is real.

This is finite so. So, we can't live so long-in-in-in-a-lust. But but it's not just to discount our own our own our own to make a book two per week or whatever

What's the question the last, what you, what you can, or what you can or want to do, so that the world of the same, that is, can't be quite in the world

yeah, there's a lesson, don't, we can make film that's like parasite we've got Oscar and we can make a lago

that got Grammy and make whatever that that weakue that our that's, Keren.

I'm actually, in the same, in the business I'm actually working on a venture that's not education related, but, mission my nowadays, it's,

it's, it's, to be focused to make the kind of Indonesia, uniquely Indonesian and identical and identical,

Like? In some of the spaces. But I'm not going to say, oh, wow, sorry, sorry, so it's okay. Eventually it will come up. But I'm in some of the spaces, like, here, the time, even beauty, even all these things.

There's so much importing. There's so much looking outward. And not that's a bad thing, because knowledge transfer is also that's also important, but there's also left in Indonesian identity, in the kind of the kind of the kind of developed, and puttut we're going to be developed, and partut be out of the out of that, even as simple as Indonesian songs, you know,

Dool- Okay. Don't tell you're NFTs. Oh no, no, no, it's not. We're still many songs of Indonesia. When I grew up. Right?

Balong-kou-a-dh-dh-hattasha, Jojo, these people. Stuff like that. And I also, I've also, I saw that. Yeah. And...

the stuff that's on there, I made sure that figure figure figure or animations, animaaminsing, it's also, can't be the different people in Indonesia. The father's a rung, the mother's duster, at home. I just think,

like, little things like that, it's so important, and I, I, why I love, the world's because I'm I'm really, it's really,

very much. We talk about education, but not only only the pediccan formal, but but, but the education and media

and the that that that's the book, it's very powerful,

so that's my mission in the world of the world of the way of it's not so much a case of lack of cultural value propositions but it's a lot more about the the,

we can be beckxas to all the world yeah, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Not even debate, about about about about about about

about about about Indonesia or the other than in the United States or about Singapore. But for some reason, they're not know how it's just about, and it's just about and it's heard

because more people can be more than English. No, don't debate, deabate, what's more than more than the more than

Australia But but it's just need, right? Yeah, right? I've been saying, we just need maybe 10 phenomenal narrators. And, like, like, like, like, the value of the other, or the krelaugan, even,

to make sure, and stuff, that is a realign, that is universal. Yeah, right? So, yeah, here, we're just making film, so, if we're, if we're,

we're, we're trying the values that are universalities it. And family, that's the most universal.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because it resonates with people in Tanzania or in New Jersey

or in Latvia. It happens to me, to my family. So that's the most of the most of the most to the whole of the world. Tingle, who's who is the megap microphone? Yeah, right? He can't be.

And if there's anybody, you could be. Asly. Not many, lo. Wow. that can dongenging like this. You're blessed with the gifts that's very important to the internationalization. Indonesia, if I'm saying,

it's not internationalization just. Yeah, right? Local content is, it's not all right-biasa. Yeah? Yeah? If you're like, it's got, it's got, it's up, right? It's up.

Yeah, right? Yeah, because the kai'an is, werebiasa. And the amount of monetization, that's gila, you? Yeah, it's be itonged. Yeah? What, like, Maudi,

there's the other, for the psalasan for the Pamira. We have we have we talked about a Amazot, yeah? Al-Qa-Qa-Zat. We've got to talk about a lot of things. Oh, God,

we'll just end with one of things. Yeah. Oh, maybe I'll just end with one, one that I want to share, and

I'm brought in some that, that's the power of insecurity security. Wow. It's all the power.

Just to be short. But people, people always always, people, always, people, it's very much that's very limiting.

It's all these things. But I've spent be think too, long, about how insecurity that's really

embouching in the right. And from insecurity, it's not to know what, it's not what, it's made I was haus and napar upon and also

to be able to improve and improve and improve, so. Actually, why I want to about it, I think, I think, one one driving force is

that, that, It really helps you stay like just humble and paranoia. Paranoia. Obviously, extreme, not good, yeah, pa. But I think that's interesting. I can relate to this, I've got, I've got about about this, it's going to bea-system.

Yeah, right? Right, right, right. If ecosystem that is constructive, it's canal-canal to things that net positive. But if the ecosystem of, mon-ma-ma-ma-f, doodol, product that's out-outed,

and that's back, back to the room-tangat, school, the situation in the and RTRW and other, but if you're in, but if you're in, the, no, ne, ne,

product is, is not because what's because of what's going to beaute-lawlessness, so it's a fixed mindset. Even be negative energy. Negative energy. Mm-hmm. That's, like.

Bucan, it's not a bit of something constructive. And I, and I'm seeing, Yeah, in context, some of what, in the ecosystem of, that's the ecosystem is, that's, if it's a good thing, it's really,

because this, the other one's just, the other one's the same-six, he'd been in 3-40, he'd been in, got to gimme, and, bach,

what's what, the other one, just got gosogged, He's like that's like that's like that's He's up. Yeah, right? The other's the other than he's not even time.

It drives that. Competitiveness. But that's positive, but negative too, sometimes, if not not the ariacan. Wow. Thank you very, Modi. Thank you, Pat.

Yeah? Thank you for coming. Thank you so much. Tumann, that's that's what I'ma. Thank you, Moodah.