Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Nathan Roestandy: Want to Live Longer? Fix the Air Quality

Episode Date: July 29, 2022

Kualitas udara bisa dibilang adalah ancaman kesehatan terbesar kita saat ini. Tidak hanya Jakarta, menurut WHO, sebagian besar dunia hari ini sedang menghirup udara yang kurang baik.  Perlu perpaduan antara politik, teknologi, dan dunia bisnis untuk bisa serius melawan polusi udara. Tapi saat pembuat dan penegak kebijakan belum berani mengambil langkah drastis, harapan kini tertumpu pada pemahaman masyarakat dan dobrakan teknologi.  #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #Climate --------------------------  Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me//628119182045 Berminat menjadi "policy leaders" berikutnya?Hubungi: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504 Tonton juga di YouTube: https://endgame.id/season2 https://endgame.id/season1 https://endgame.id/thetake

So sometimes, because of a lot of our from our time we're nother, we're nother, we're not having to, 22,000 times a day. So, imagine just if every napas that we're odourn't rotor, that effect cumulativeness, can, it's,

so that's in Jakarta, in Indonesia, in the kotasaraping, the hope can be down to get back this year. Hello, my friends,

I've seen I'd say on social med, I want to contribute to Indonesia that more than in 2004,

5. Baidn't from where. Maybe one one of one one of my is, I'm,

to, learn public policy. Now, that's the public policy. To change is definitely also policies, right? And to deliver it, Tadleycutuology, buttoeanuang, and puttow policy. Now,

the problemaumacan we can't make actualization solution to be a bigelago permasalhan, apalagi that's sifatting not only in the government, but also in the world

business, non-profit. I'mantzegiateBB Ban Ki-moon, the president of Singapore Lee Shin-Lung, and journalist Ritchell Meadow, all-en-a-lossed public policy.

SGBP Indonesia, School of Public Policy first in Indonesia, with the language-Penchantar-Bas-A-Bash-Ingris, is still-en-buker-in-a-ususua for batch-in-out-old. To detail on the program and how to do you know how much other than

or just under consultation about your career people to the time. Hubbue SSPP Indonesia through link that there in description. Now back to the show. Hello,

time. Today, we're getting Nathan Rustandi, CEO and co-founder from Navas. A person that's interesting. Nathan, thank you.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah. Tell me, Ma'iata. Yeah, man, da. Lachir in Jakarta, then, where's the way to the

can't even if you're to napas? So, I'm in Jakarta, um, on 5 March, 87, I'm,

the, the actual, Mexico, Mexico City, ah, from, the, actually,

they're at when they're coming in Kulah, I'm S2, S1 Papa, but I'ma But I'm not even though Lus, so I'm going to lose

Okay Okay Um Sampette Sampet I've taken in the can't So, I've Mastew, but

before that, in school swastah, local So I'm at Santa Maria, S.D, SMP, SEMP, spent in the school at Pita Rapa, Then I was in Canada, and

work in there, and then, then back again to Jakarta. Then, what was what to the college? Curia, and,

what's a interesting. Why? What is the history? So, from the topic,

one topic, school that's the the same thing and it's all the same like from the small from the esmpe to, especially the

culture, yeah, more that's more to be more, also, maybe, culture from Mexico because Latin America too,

the Ablo is Spanish. Ablo Ispaniol? Ablo Ispaniual? Oh. Ablo Ispaniuuuuu. Okay. But if you know, but if you're more

about the event or process? Process. So, so, maybe, so, philosophy. So, so, more,

and if, if at the , uh, the, the,

so, so, if it's a good. Okay. I'm going to go about the story yeah? Okay, if you're Okay, if you're

what you think to cool, from the perspective, historic. If favorite, yeah, maybe one

one of the favorite is the first favorite is the So how mongolian empire is how bigot that, so much as well as they're as they're and what they're in what they're what they're making

and maybe evolution from the first barbar, can't they're, if we look, if we can't look, could be a person who can be open-minded, so he's,

Muslim, Christian, Christian, yes. Yes. So, that's... Yes. So that's that's very interesting, from there.

Of course, of course, the history of India, history of kuna, also, that's very interesting. Okay. That's interesting,

in the abat how they can be able to be dach in the abate in the abate the of 13.

Yes. Yeah, that's been abatheedaned yeah, backdad by Hulagukan, Kuturunan, jekhank, khani, and kublaika. That, if I'm in fact that, which, until that time it, Timur-Tenah, it's,

hub, intersects, of other of other than from other than butahed, but that's top because of the stupe because of the dachshed that

and not long after that Europe not even no more need to be without Timur Tengah. They've got to beware and it's in

the same is in printing press 1445 in German. Gutenberg? Yeah. Now, it's, in 200 years, that's what's the way that's the power,

or, and, can, from maybe, the middle, from Asia, to Europe, yeah. Now, you're,

it's, this is going to gawonging and economic, then what, that's what? After that, I was actually, I wanted to learn

architecture, so, hobby gambar, but, but, uh, actually, learn economy,

because, he's said, more useful to, for, for later, more more general.

Um, then, then, uh, I was in bank, almost two years. In Indonesia? Not in Toronto,

then, then, back to here, and then, it's, wow, not-cocococ, I'm, actually, to entrepreneurship, so,

and, work with family business. And, in that, because, growing up, there, like my man's my father

even, even though, even though entrepreneurial, role model, role model that's from the small social, is the social sook entrepreneur, so I'm going to how,

so much, what, and maybe, one day, even, So it's like that's So much This is about two-year-old

This is in 2000-a-old So I'm back to Jakarta that's 2012 Yeah And and in the family business this this is

Sering be perpurgian to Cina for work Ah, Now, in the Asal Osul Nafas Asa, inspiration is from there

from from China. Okay. From the time, do you want to? So, the time, you want it? So, when? So, about in 2012-back, even, that, it's been to,

it's been to do, because, from, from there, so, so, so, so,

took, either, or, to go, to, is this isa post-Olympics. So this is the era, where the pollution is the

peak air pollution. But, what's interesting, it was, it's not hebo. So this is still still not that can't be en-offed.

Not even, it's really, it's really, but, but, I'm not even if you, the issue iso'et what? And then,

it's a bit of a quick, so it's quite, so there's a documentary that out, the name's under the dome, so this documentary this is released by a journalist, so self-funded, so he,

the child is with a catatatat paru, so. So, this is like a crusade, personal crusade to,

investigate, you're the issue, you're due release and, and in the several weeks, it's got to viral, because of course, viral, wow, hebo, actually, did censor, did turn in,

and, but it's been the pencettusen, so since it, there, too, many journalists other who've already made cover topic this, and, and, actually, it's, the government,

there, they're, they're, they're, they're, and, And maybe that moment, a moment, a moment, the moment, the government made declare war

against pollution. And this, not only only polus udara, but all pollution. And, and upaya, if we look, if we're

seeing now, 10 years to the time, the impact of drastic so, so, the factoring, the quality

udairn is improved by, almost 40, 45%. And, And even in Jakarta, more than Beijing. and in the process

there's a world's a world about policy yeah, right. Musherak, especially in the percotaan, to, they're making up serious issue this

and we look past, it's about 2014, wow, all, we're, well, If you can't get to look at

I can't look at Beijing, and we're going to be able to restaurant, there's a lot of air quality index, there's purifier, and even skincare company started to release product about, basically, air pollution-related products. So, because

to look at this, how one industry is to becetious because of the environment or the health this is something something that's very interesting for me.

And, I'm thinking it is, what can be in Indonesia, the place, in the percota, in the borough of Jakarta.

That's, kind of commination, the community luas, with the people of the people

people who three, technology, but also in context of the putapeutusant, it's also related to getagosan their, right?

To make upy things that pollutive. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, that, maybe Indonesia not aseggampang in

Tyeongk to takeputus to, to be larang PLTU, beoperation in radius or whatever

Now, how much as a new-aum-aum-aum-aum-a-combe-cum-a-cuncy? ...to-the-cuncum-the-cuncunding pollution. So, we'll see, there are some of... ...itone, the first, it's in UK. So, there... Clean Air Act, this, that in UK, is... ...and, and, also, there's... same in america in the 70s,

the endinian act is cutouted because there's doronging from the community, where there public outcry that's very that's actually

the government to make upy. So we're looking at it especially the people, especially the, the, the,

as an accelerant for the government more quick to be able to be able to to take action. And the example that I've given in China, you know, that's, maybe

if there's a lot of documentary, it can one, two years, and every time it's, you know, people who are people who are still. So, even, if we're looking at the scale. 7,000, even, even, even. So, yeah. So, yeah. So, the scale of,

so, it's a big, so, maybe that's one of the most of the most of the most important. Now, this, I think, in the, kind of, if I'm over with

his students, and sisui, there's many who, who, who don't pahm, about, about,

what, yeah, carbonization. Yeah, right? If I'm going that, that's up to have

1.6 million carbon that's been emisiccould. People, too, what's what? And then I'm going to say, we're emissinginginginging 35 million tons carbon, and more than more than.

And then I'm going to be the planet this only 2,000 to 3,000 gigaton. Carbon. Now, that, they're not able to, They're not quite aga-gat with angra-angas like that, and they're not

can't be in one between the other. Yeah. I see, I believe, uh, you know, there's political ownership taking. Yeah, right?

I see, I'm notherpanianty in the young young, if we're going to make rancul the Spaketan Paris to To get the emission carbon in 2030, 25% 2040, 25% in the last 2050, without political ownership taking, is difficult.

Yeah, right? Yeah, right? Now, this political ownership taking, this can't be able to be able to beaumahman, right? Now, I'm going to look at, you, you know, you're can't looker, in the water,

the kind of, the water, and if you're not, you know, data that's adjointed, it's coming to, that's, so,

they can't make amy, and then they're making action, or even make the, the, yeah. Yeah.

How that? Yeah. Maybe this is, from the public, yeah? Or, from, from the,

of the government's from the from the way that's the problem is that's it's quite high, we're just being being with the IMKG and,

and they also have data and they're to and this is in the callang of it this is not new information but, but if we're

even if we're to look at incentive to use of barra, that's very deep, entrenched incentives. So, so much. So, so, that's the way, who can't make action as drastic

the government of China, to not be there. And, and, and, so hard. So, yeah, very difficult. The Hong Kong,

pillar of economy, many. So, they can make make sense. And not too-sum game Yeah, right? If in here, the pillar's not as much

what we're looking in China. So, it's difficult to we're making or to end up. Subsis-sumnsisiness... Business model that's pre-existing

that, the per-easiness even not can't be remehing. Yeah. Yeah, right? And I've never we have advocation that

carbonization it's just stop. We're in, as a biggera beckombeung, we're thinking transcissing, can, that bifixan, from carbonization and

decarbonization. Beto? Two-two-two-year-oldeas-as-as-as- something, or business model that pre-existing, that carbonizing can exist with something that's not carbonizing.

Yes. Yeah, right? Now, this, how do you know, there's not there, there's long-lanker of the government here? Well, so, the, that's substantive,

is, yeah? Yeah. So, the, there's, there's upaya, upia,

from the government uh, uh, uh, uh, In the fleet busway, there's about 5% of the flitinit that's been that's a number that's insignificant.

But if, from the napahs, we're trying to, not too to touching on the politics, but we're more to, because the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, There's the shenjewan.

So what's what's gothawing the scientific literature is, it's been a lot of... And this is not a fringe science, this something that's very mainstream. But what is what is by the people of amam is still, so, so, so, so, so, so,

so, we can't we close that gap? How can we can we can? How can't we can't? How can't we can't? And, and we can't educate from the sudut of the state. Because the end-ugung the cost the best of the solar

is the health of the community. And this, we can't understand. So, in Jakarta or in Indonesia, in the, in the, of, the... the top-based, the top-based to be more than seven years. And this is a study that

did a research part of our from University of Chicago. And, so, so, really, we're making a platform, and we're going to operate data, we can't upon data, we're going to ask

stakeholders, stakeholders from we give up information to public, we're having the and universities, we're going to the same-tank and

to the end-ugging-un-un-y, hopefully, this is a tool, a resource that can be used the government to, maybe, make a policy creation like that. This is mulial.

This is hard. Yes, we're very sad. Untung, you're still mudd. But, GASCas about what about what you can't about what you can't

and to give a lot of you've got to make of what you have done it can be used and to resaline to something that

Mbukhka'atine Hello, Treman, thank thank you, be a. Check release from future narrators merchandise and docung to make sure

mission our idea of the idea great and narrator, narrator karen and the other. Link the MESANANANANANAN-A-DISCRIPSI. Now back to the show. So, maybe, so, it, can be able is the unit outdoor- so we're in the lingquering

out-door area so we're making-installation we're making installations sensors-sensor physics so we're using method of the encumbrance that standardization so so all sensors are same and this in the integrity

from data that we take this is it's on the in the linguang outdoor so there there in perumahs, mackham, but... Pabric, between fabric. There's a bit of the fabric,

but it's hard. It's not too much. We've been narrowed sensor in bantar-gebang, a couple of years, bimba-lid-lang, like, maybe they're going to be able to be able to. And data this is quite interesting.

So, every sensor that we're passing, it's like we're going to program it's, We have sensors, we can't we can't data that's access to the community

so we're in the we're giving up public good, so it's where the people can access the quality of the area in their

area of their yeah, so on let's say, I think I'm say I'm taking tepete, I'm, I'm, I'm,

right? I'm like, right? But, it's the moment too bad for the last quality of the suna'clock the same day. So I can check the data that's not I'll tell.

I'll tell you. I'll tell you. But I can't check, okay, there's sensor that's a half kilometer from my room and it's giving information

that relevant. So I can't that in that, the area that's what's the area's about. And, and the data that we can't be able to do, we can't make sure.

So, we can't give you know, for example, we're gonna be a febeda-an, okay, in two weeks to the time, time, the time, yeah,

so. I'm more than, yeah. So, so, so, what, what makes,

what gives us satisfaction, is, how, how, how, how much how much of how much of how much, is how much of the time's behavior? So, users, users, people are much more than to modify behavior they're after making up information, information. Okay, well, if they're using the day, they'll be able. The same, when, sore or night?

The same to morning? So how about how about? Sore? So on the time before Sore time 5-6-Soree that's the best Sore

So maybe this Sometimes, sometimes reverse logic, yeah Because we think If the rush hour It's not Yeah Many mobile, macet

And the pollution There's delaying Yeah, there Yeah, there lack Yeah, maybe Because Many polusies It's not

from Jakarta pollution baua and and factor and the water's gothue to to the areas of Jakarta Okay Okay, if it's the carve out,

how do the condition the water in Jakarta? It's hard, the same, the exact number that's difficult

it's, but we're estimating, based on data that we there is that's 50-hmm. So, 50% 50% is

local and the other than the way of interesting is when the PPKM, so this is this year,

that's been down-lux now, this is that's interesting so this, this is this this is past PPKM

that's high, so the job, really really, it's, no-hom-lom-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-oh-a-cuh-sore. even in Sudirman, and we're notherment, like in New Delhi,

they're gonna look at gunung Himalaya. In Venice. In Venice. There's lumbah. In Jakarta, we look at data malaburuk. And this, and this we're looking at once,

data real-time, sensor that, the, for the, the, on the Rassuna Said, or in Sudirman. So, And if we look, if we can't,

in the area of the KATHU, public cement, and this is that this is one of the contributor the bestor the big problem pollution, especially in Jakarta.

Okay, the question that two that did, there, is, there, no, like, okay, like, if people, if people, the jogginging

from the day to or 2, that's even that's true, right, but there's a new thing that's given but there, not, there's not, things that more significant, which is a perubahed,

to make a goodan, or per-reighted? So, so, we're seeing this is how, how pollution udara or quality as a good health indicator indicator

for the care of the from the long-pendek to the long-pand-jank. And if we look from the pletian that's already, correlations is very very clear.

So we can know this study is, the methodology is very much with studies-sudy-tentang-roco. So, we know if someone 10 batang, 2 batang,

one batang, they're risk for the risk. So, data, information, information this is all there. So, the, the,

we're doing, the data that we take from, sensors, our sensors, we're in the world and there in

the room, that we're doing health, we can make health insights. So, user Navas that can

kind of Every other than, and so far, right, sung the goal is, they can't get 거 dreams, such a consistent, each day, yeah, can. If let's say, penuronan harmoned

life, it's up until two years, it's cumulative, effect cumulative, as problemas someone, so, so, to reverse it, it,

then, we're, cev там, each year, we're going to run exposure. And it's, there's other one of the other one's other one's other one. One of our time,

because we spend most of our time indoors. Yeah, can't past COVID, maybe 99% of our time in the room. So, so, is how much we can manage quality of the water in the room, or that in the room, or it's at the school, yeah, can't, the place we're gym, fitness,

many, mace. Users, this, already, now? We've been able to be 30,000. Okay. But growth is a little bit. Belacanan this, and we're still,

quite, yeah, so we're still pre-seat stage, this, we're just, just to three. And, and it's a a bigotigree that's a bit because it's not even as a quick category category category. And the premodalance is also to be able to

because this narration that this is a long, not not a long or menhagued, And then, what other? I'm looking at, this is very able to be able to beaerdicate, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. We've got to explore. Okay. We're now, we're going to explore. Okay. We're now just explore AI, uh, machine learning.

And basically, yeah, Now, the end-u-u-weights from all the data we're from the data that we're trying to make the data to to be in the

health insights, and that, the end-ugugn-ugn-n-pac-it-pac-a-i. Okay. What is, the application? Selan, we can know,

later, more in-indor or what, so, so, So ifahas is a ecosystem. So we have outdoor area that we're looking uprook and we're providing outdoor network this and data can access.

We also give up solutions solutions for in room again. Oh, yeah? This is the example of... Now, this is a demo, this. Now, this is... So, this, so... Alat memonitor quality of the water in the room room. indoor air quality monitor.

This is good, now. This is good, right? This is good, because we're not really good, yeah, before I'm going to. This, even, actually. Even if we're upcure particles, it's 10.

So, if we're looking the green, the most it's the way to look at the color. So, the green is,

the most. And, and allot this, we're born and this is a, butan Indonesia. So,

this, particle, not in China or in China. because, actually, we're actually, we're going to produce the China, because, yeah, in China, ecosystem hardwareing is number one.

But, past COVID, because we started business in this, past COVID, I, and co-founder I, we,

January, that we, in Shenzhen. Wow, that January, 2020. Buset. When we were,

I'm going to look at what, wow, what, what? So, because of COVID-you-to-counter, we're not able to access manoeuvre in China. At least, we have to produce local. And, it's the way to do not. And there's a lot of it, this can't be called, this is the heart from system we all. So, this is make sure particle,

and the gas like CO2, there gas VOC, y'is, the types of gas that's peritpacoon, there temperature, there clembabond. And, alat this can be communicated with purifier purifier. So, you know, which we're producing, which we design and production

and production and so, so, it's, it's, all, Why, why? To do you know, because he's always make upcure particle, so much, can, so much of a room and there's so much more than,

so there's fluctuasion. Makin tigy, more good, not. So, that's in below 10? Or? GUT that was 12.

Oh, that was just 11, so. Yes, so good, like. So, so, so, so, so, he,

so, but, um, Ambang W. WHAO, that's 2, yeah, which is 2nd 1st,

and this wow, this this, this, 8, see, one of the best. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

Because, sometimes we're going to get, it's too, it's just, it's maybe 50,

be 50, in- in- room? In- room. And this people,

kind of, we've got, we've we've got to the misconception isp the oh, oh, police udara this ish only issue in the world just. In the realm, we're not. Yeah, can?

Nimbun. And, and, even, in the negara tropis that, there, many co-bocoran, so, the water from, because, we not perlation for heat, and we don't have winter, yeah, can, so, many

and sometimes, and sometimes, sometimes, and sometimes kind of badalasiness too, so, the water from outside and it's perenneped in the down.

He can't be to where, not? Do you see five, in Jakarta? There, in the room

I'm five. In room my, in... Oh, that's, in the bottom, barangas. Yeah,

so, Solusita, we call it's a clean air zone. So this is a indoor air quality solution. Certificat, sobetulner. What we're built is certificate that can't be able to be able to make sure or menandakan that, okay, if you look at the sticker or logo clean air zone, it's quality of water in room this

are at level of level, which can be said, Wehaw. We can't we've got to we've got to we can't look at. So, we're making design monitor this so we're not have to be

this purifier, but quality of the udairn'y, we're not, yeah? We're not there. Objective. Yes. Objective. And, the automated,

too. And system we, the more data that we can we can we can't can't get to get about the health so okay so quality of the car in my

five, right, right, per day, even per week, so what is it means. So, from here we're taking data

and we can we can make a report of a report. Even we can make make upbun a health score

based on exposure quality of user And so let's say, let's say, in the country, so we're using using the same from the deject this person, the exposure

it's like what? Because we have sensor in the world, we're in the same, so we can make build a, um, a,

can't be a health score. And data this, implication is, the, upcassioner, so, so, so, so,

In the people's in the world. In facturances, if they're going to be activeitist, oligua, and he's tracking from wearable appellate, or some other type of wearable device, that's going to runnurement the premies. It's not. But hopefully, one day soon, we can't. Generally, if it's, if it's the other, if it's the How much? In the in the room, in the so farcelling? The way of it,

85%. Sorry, so if in the out of 100, in the 85. Yeah. No, no, no, it's just more good too, yeah.

Oh, in the so in, there's, not, in the down, not, yeah? Even, we're, just, we're,

just we're, school, preschool. we're in during class class hours, it's correlations can't because it's in-nertime, but maybe it's in-room-hand-bentooking. So, maybe if gedung,

the correlation is a little less less, but if, like, the room, it's... Because insulations, maybe better. But, but it's not as good as what I think.

Yeah. So, sometimes, if we're not, in the room, like you even more and you're not. It's not too even more even, you know, even, maybe. Yeah, yeah. So, because

there's AC, and we can come back, and room that's always connotation is, wow, I'm safe, I'm at home, right. But we're not sadder, too, that, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, would be able to

And if I can also add to, why, uh, why sometimes, we're not even if we're too much more than, uh, uh, uh, the time for sure the water and, and breathes is to be able to survive. Um, maybe can't one day, two days. We can survive without eating, maybe even seven-week. Without napas, just about a minute. Not enough minutes, probably two minutes. Wow, long.

Congress in a minute. So, so sometimes, because of a lot of a lot of we're automatically, from the day we're living, we're having a few, two hundred times a day. So, imagine just if we're having a lot of, the airinging that,

the effect cumulativeness, and it's amazing. Taunate. Yeah. Life expectancy. Can we can't do you can't do that if we're rata rata can't live

the water that's 10, that's how much we can? So, so, so, we're reference, we,

study from University Chicago who, the name's air quality life index. So, this a program in the department

economy of their so under environmental economics. And study this is the first by a person Michael Greenspan. Sorry, sorry, Michael Greenstone. So, he was he was born been jabat

as chief economist during Obama. So, he, this, study this, manalisa exposure, pollution, the purpose of the power, the particle PM2. with the right now.

and, and, I said, the study of them again. So, right. So, they've, there's one model, and model this, is not only corollation,

but causal too. So, it's really, to look, but we're not want, soberang, yeah, so we also have a, yeah, we have

had integrity, like, we can't I'm about people, to talk about people our product. So, that's much we can't even we can't join with

universities, we also have with Professor Budi, in FKMUI, he also, and we also support studies studies of with with mingumbang

data we also. So, so many of the we want to be and to understand the issue this scientifics, so that's about the information that we're giving, it's about it's been integrity. But if we're looking at 20, 30 years' time last year,

the PPM has been up, from 280 to up to 400-ahsand-law. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we're at some point, if it's going to go up to be it, yeah, you know, yeah, right? Yeah.

Yeah. If you're even externality's like like that bigotting, yeah, we're going to getterbatassan,

right? Yeah, how that? So, so, so, so, if, not, not,

the macroe also, the, should be, the, the, the, intinion,

the, only the government can really solve this problem in macro. And technology. technology, but there's incentive from the

the government to make sure the adoption and level of development more quickly. And, and, it's kind of with environment and climate change

this is very, yeah, polis water. Because, the end-uguing the human cost is, air pollution.

Yeah, and, people, it's more And not only we're not only the long but things that's small, like, culit,

sick, can't be able to come, wow, this, this, this, you know, not, not, not not, not, but, it's notewan, it's notew-grossed, maybe,

but, so, so, it's cropped in the night, or not can't, or, you. So, yeah, yeah,

it's something that's something that's far-reaching, like, consequences. Is there hope? Yes.

I think, well, I think as a entrepreneur, our best skill to have is being optimistic. No, if this I'm hopeful, but macro-ne-lawful, I'm more, I'm more, I'm more about technology for a long-pendip,

and the long-manenegh. to be on the way to be it's to be in the time in the long-inenged and long. Yeah, right? The only of automotive, like, if I look at trend of the electrification

in automotive, it's just a mingu-gru-kirked. Yeah. Yeah, right? what, if you know, if I'm not the world, if I'm not sure, if I'm going to be able to be able to laparant, maybe,

in some years to be able to five years, that can't be able to 40 million, production and and penjualing. And, and what,

if it, do jellin with autonomy. Yeah, right? Right. But for the world, now,

around around production and the new if you're doing be able-dyeaked it, it will be because of the the use of the percent.

The other is our our carcour and in the parker. Yeah, right? Yeah, Yeah, in theory, the way,

or the use of the world, can't turn from 100-juta per-to-a-one to 5-juta. If we're all autonomous. And we're puas with autonomy. Yeah. But because ego, we want to see a newpier. Angupe-l-lure to turn to 40-juta, from 100-juta, production and the

and if all of autonomy, with option we can't newtire, that's just it's just decarbonization yeah yeah right and what

ifcciency and effectiveness battery not for mobile but it's for motor that's more more than more than more than

the more than a dashat that yeah apal again for the for the the car

maybe the kind of Pendek, if you're If you're the trans-samudra, it's still long, like, long as long as long as it. There, there's hope that, but it's more to technology,

not policy. Because policy, what do you do, if technology doesn't be able to be there. Right, and, and, maybe this the... ...the, the...

...that, if, in China, it, why, he... ...penetration, electric vehicle, that's very, even in the city, even in fact that's that's full-flet, 100% bus, taxi, all the listric.

It's not even there's not autonomous taxi-tas-dix-d-d-sad. And it's, first, it's technology, and also, penelpang of, the government, to support from the subsidy, incentive. Yeah, because they, the room fiscality, quite. But, but to many other countries,

because, there's the other than the world iscal. So, for they're making subsidization, you know, boss. That's why I'm going to see, I'm looking at, there's catarbatassan from the policy of the policy. But if there technology that's imbuckusiness,

effectiveness, that's exponential, or with the way that's exponential, that's more than ever for some matter. But, then, the end-ug-ug-ug-ug-ugue, that's the world,

the world is more quite or big, he's mrs. He's amput to make up some of the same mind. Now,

if you're going to make a new motor, bike, bike, and bike, and on bike, or on

speed, where there's who want to do. So, I'm seeing, maybe, the transition,

that's more soft. soft. Yeah. And technology, the exponentiality is more than. That's the two hundred four-five. So, so,mestine, there's a lot of

right, right? If we're bunk in the macro-ne, which, which is the technology is going to propang, the importance to more to decarbonization, or carbonization that more than before before

But I'm going to be in the context of Indonesia, Indonesia is the people who are people who are the electrician megawatt. Total capacity. Total capacity. Yeah. And majority is carbon.

And, every time we're building 3,500. Yeah, can? Electrification is, is more than 1,000 kilowatt-hour. If we're going to be a new-watering, electrification per-person, it's 5,000.

Yeah, right? So, we need to increase 5x-lipat, yeah. Pumbanket-listricting has been 9x 5-lipat. From 72,000 megawatt, so, anguptal,000-mahwatt. If we're building it just 3,000-p-pard-pard-old,

to be we're going to be more you're more than you're I'm more 35 yeah I'm like to be able to or ampugn't for a hundred years

to be able to bea one to beaughan yeah yeah solution the scale and velocity we have

we need to we're making scale the upanket with a little more than before before. Not even we can't even even 500.

And, if we want to make in from 3,500 megawatt per year to 10,000 megawatt, or more, or is, is all, do you know, badobarah?

Yeah, can? Yeah. How, Nathan? Maybe if from the energy this we have we have So we have to be

We have to explore Sumber's other like nuclear, example. I've got to I've got to be a bit of a bit of a bit. Yeah, so we're kind of a Fobia, like, some kind of phobia, that's about nuclear, connotation to, wow, Shernobil, and...

Fukushima? Fukushima. But because, the corban of nuclear that's not more than 3 to 4,000 per-border. Right. Corbant of carbon that's 7-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1-1

because pollution. But if we look forward to 2004-5, the, who's very very much make-houtir-cuitous is also how this this is aftap

to the S-DM in our next our future. So, Sohurya this, the world'suil, the world is and lansia.

And the child can't abat partubuant their upro their their, so this, like, like, we're, maybe that's,

we're talking, we're talking, we're abhorring, we're abhorring, for the importance of the kinion, and we're not I'ma-ma'am, for the more than a lot of

generation of course. Yeah, right? Yeah, maybe a little dramaticist, but sometimes, kind of need dramatization to make sure to make sure and I'm not look at the lawasagna

if it's zero-sum game. If we're going to be the country that modern, we have to increase scale, the number of the electrification is the energy, right? And this is not zero-sum game, in the art that pre-existing

that's to be anulir. No, even they can participate in model the model that's the other, or that's the energy, thermal, or nuclear. But we've already, since Fukushima,

Germany to make up to pivot from nuclear to the nuclear but if I think the long glottoran dana for the power of suria that's not

too efficient and effective France is that not has been able to be able to be success German will be to be able to

the energy and gas with the situation in Ukraine now, now they're they're just making giggi-jari. How much, it's got it's not difficult,

I know, but maybe it's just the discussion, one, we want to be a napas, oxygen or

the other more than if the PPN's, it's a 80 to 400-a-a- and this can't-a-p-pand-a-pd-pand

500. Yeah, every day, we look at 460. Not turn to 9. Not ever turn to 5. Yeah, right? And this can't... So, if P.m.2.

5, this, not be infiltration by the Attorney. Yeah. Not bisa. Yeah, we can't. Yeah, we can't... As a lot of much And maybe, we think,

someber energy our, from where? Hydro, like, the energy, like, and I always say, I always monged, that's the numbering to the amount of times,

dabblinginging what we consumsican. Yeah, just we'll just think we're just three things. Technology that can't, to keep in the more efficient and effective. So, I'm more than I'm more than technology for some time.

Yeah, if you're going to move policy, policy is what, to induce or stimulate research and development, but it needs full-us. If the fullest, yeah, same as it's just wrong. Yeah, wait a little, if there's, we think we can't even if we're from from Japan, like, from Korea, from Korea, German, or America, or what?

Yeah. Not to know, is that the right line of thinking? I agree. So, so we need to be more than, more, and the more than what we can use. Because, yeah, it's been able to do. It's not true. It's true.

Nafas, this, how much, to the front of it? If we're the different It's a bit more than Yeah, let's forward 5, 10,000 to 22 years We're a lot of We can't quality and umur-hurt

Souserang Whalapun, although the condition or linguanguels that in the area is around them are put polusy So how we can create

Linguanguang down So, in the world that's always, that's always they're always, every time, they're in their own, they're to, their car, they're naic,

transportation, um, so even the condition out of it can't be a unfortunately, trend-y-it-it- to, but at least we can reverse

life-expectancy reduction this, we can do as life-expectancy game. That's, but, And this is not only but we can't even we can't even not just

just a moment or but rooted in data and rooted in science, do you believe this I want to punch on this point again backal there political ownership

that's enough in Indonesia to make solutions things about about because, I don't know, if I'm, if I have to have a few

I have to have this, this, this, with the interlibatans society-luas. Yeah. Not only elite just.

Yeah. Yeah. people that's they're up, they're just about whatever, like, to think in the

room just, or buy machine to make resigning water in the room but, the end of the time, they,

they, want, or not, they need, to make, take, the, of,

because I, know, with many politicians in the world, the, the,

there's, many, about, about, That's very systemic. It's very much more than it's quite and that, that, that's,

that's a impediment that's structural, to make solosicant public, not only vested interest from pre-existing business models, but if, in my opinion,

and political ownership taking, it's important to to put to Paris Accord or to the Spakaten Paris. I think I think, so, I think, the generation of the new, in this is really about so much more opinion,

about things like this, not only go with the flow, but we're ready take aside, and stand for it, I think, the hope it is there. And I also, I hope, this, mentality this is this is, can be built.

I'm looking at you. I'm going to lookerick. Like, you're not true. Yeah. Yeah. If you're 5 million people who've got to use like this,

oh, not can't, 40 mullo every day. Yeah. Yeah. This, you're going to be the 5,

now, that's just to be effective, too. How long, to be able to be able to get to

$1. I'm sorry. I'm not busy though. But we're having time in the time, we can't get back, we can't get paid $1,000. And, the,

that we're that we're planning from from now, because the end-to-one-uping, that's people who are, and people who can't be used to buy purifier, you know, with the money

So we can. goal our goal we can't we can't even though because we're not profit or co-unctonging from the money. We can learn

the data that we're doing to companies, healthcare and other than the so. So if data this is a source of revenue,

hardwareing we can use with a high-out-smart work that's very much more than product we'll do we've got product we can't we can't build product class dunia locally and if we can't make this business as a business that's data

yeah hardware we can't use with a gooder and that can't make a adoption that's more than it's great yeah now is how big yeah now this is this year this is we're doing $1.5 million Rewa, but relative murra, but we're still up, yeah, so volume we're still still so, so cost's still high, and if electronic, too, scale.

So if the scalan's got to 50,000, 100,000, that cost's up to down to 40% more. And you're more focused on software, not hardware. We're more focused on software, but hardware is also. We're more focused on software, but hardware is also important. And this, kind of, maybe, maybe, mindset's, To tackle big problems, that's the environment, that's not just software just.

We can't. We can't trybosan or support from technology hardware. If that purifier's also, we're doing to? We're doing. We're doing. It's about $2,900. Then we'll then we'll make more than, so much more than the very big future.

we can't quite the scale. But that's not even if you can't even if you're going to be able to if you're going to? Wow, it's a really, so if this is really, so in my room I, if I go out a little, I brought the air monitor, PMs, it can't sometimes, parrash, if it's, if now,

like in the Mara, it was 70. Then I brought back to the room, then down, down to 1 minute, it's down again to 5. So if I'mathing, wow, in the down, it's not even like, too. 70? Yeah.

It's quite, quite extreme. Yeah. Okay. Philosophical question. What makes you happy? I think what makes me happy is, attempting to do difficult things or very challenging things that can accomplish a greater good. And it's through, you know, the struggle of doing that is what actually yields happiness.

It's maybe a bit counterintuitive, but it's starting to feel more and more like that, yeah. I think that's like this. It sounds really cool. Thank you. It should make me happy. Because, this, like, the cedrunging the people in the the company.

And, the caryawain is to focus to how things that's the pithers and desserts. It's, it's a focus to the jangga-pansans. Is it's a thing that's about. Issue that's how we can

can't include-inclusive, yeah. But, sorry, this is a digress, but it's important, because you're a student in history. We'll look, yeah, 500-tawn that's the world the most of the country that's just two-cally more than the country the most than the world

than the world that's the same five times more than the most than the country the world the country the same way three hundred times than the most of the most so. Yeah.

So, yeah, it's been able to, in 500 years, inclusion is already increasing, it's a lot in fact, but,

but, but, is it, can't be able to You know, it's not true, right? Now, this we have to try a jembatan between the inclusion of the with the turn of the shenjana. Yeah.

This, if I'm in front of the same one of the embattain is the education, yeah, can, literacy, yeah. Yeah. So, so it's back to this how we're doing we to be a lot more than what is what's

is the importance of the thing. The thing they're doing to do with the world. But they're making ameeming that, gila, this if you're not dis-sikaping, conny, I'm going to irup the Udra of the 70-mull. Yeah, right? When I can't go get up the other than Now, how that do you sense that what you're doing is

that's going to be the pettingan mission we're making, so that more people, the people, people in communities, k, k, like, in the perusiaan, like, more than things that's the kind of the same not long than the the same thing ishurt or appetizer. It's hard, yeah, because if in the business

to, it's the incentive it's more to making the highest return the next day. And this, and this, it's, it's, capitalized, and this has a little to be able

and I think, it's not... Not gampang. But I think, support from calang of the clanguestation, and also, doronging, dorongan program

accelerator, that, we have, there's also, incentive to make something that's something that paybacking maybe,

the banking, long. But, this, there, many, people are doing,

by the company, that's, the clus- that's, the two-ta- -tall- Right.

And, right, right? It's about about it's about you. Yeah, right? Yeah, not so, narration your is,

you know, it will not do me or everybody else justice. If your narration you, it's, twig, so it's the

has to be able to do you, to do you know, to do you know, right? This, I mean, right? This, I mean, I'm seeing, yeah, the friends' startup, too, philosophies, aghaprakan,

with the importance of the capital that's the fact-in-pand-pendek from the mission or philosophy of the company this is a lot more than 7-year-can. Right. Right. And you're going to becimpung in the

world of the society that, if I think, is the fact of the long-pangue I'm going to be a lot of turn. Yeah, right? I don't know if PPM, that, will be a in two-year-old, so, but I'm going to be aft, 20, 30, 40, 40, 50, 20, 20, 20, 20,

to down to down to down 40s, in more than 400. What do you think? Not that's possible. We can edit this part. It's definitely possible. But, we're seeing the trend and

speaking to experts, it's difficult to become optimistic about that. Yeah. I'm a little, I'm kind of, I'm kind of, gala, this. Yeah. But it's not even if you're

You're about it's about it's about it's about it's You're about a different in a long run. Yeah, right than if we're going to be a different in a long run. Yeah, and if we're going to be politic Don't we're politic For vocation If you'll make a difference in a long run Yeah, right, if upon, if I think this is

The other than something that's I've been in the same thing that's something that's identical with the culture teamur, that's sense of duty,

co-wajiban, yeah, right? And, and I think, as a young, millennial, that we're more educated,

not use, millennial, from the generation whatever, but we, we're more fortunate, and the more education,

we, we, I'maubal to help but I'ma I'm going to believe in Indonesia and I'maed in Canada and one of the things that I learned about living in an emerging developing country is you have to help

those that are less fortunate and and it's a calling that you have to answer I think stay that way man I'll be watching you I'll do my best. There's the last.

There's the last... Nantan? Mugent... Pesan acer is what you breathe. And every napas that we'll

be able, there can have a day to our day to our day. So, the concept

of the health is like and not only the quality water, yeah, but pola,

lifestyle like this ishurt this ishaping as a bit unbuck we're living for the same day'sok

more fresh, more bad. Top. Upward and onward. Thank you, Natan. Same, same. Thank you. Mank,

that's Natan Rustandi, CEO and co-founder from Nafas. Thank you. In-Gain