Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Nita Kartikasari: Powering MSMEs Through Branding

Episode Date: August 12, 2021

After successfully leading several breakthroughs at global FMCG brands, Nita Kartikasari returns home to help Indonesian MSMEs clinch some breakthroughs of their own. Nita Kartikasari dreams of growing MSMEs into renown big brands. Inspired by the potential of Indonesian MSMEs and having more than 15 years of experience in branding and marketing, Nita founded KAYA.ID in 2018 as the first business incubator for MSMEs in Indonesia. In collaboration with KAYA.ID

In Indonesia, people, people who's the other than the from the other than people, maybe investors that's like that's important, where the process is the growing pain that is that is

important. And, and, I'm back, back, back, it's ecosystem, and that's something that we as a one to be able to learn with this process this is that we're going to do with.

This is endgame. We're coming Nita Kartikasari, CEO founder of Kaya.i. Nita, thank you. Thank you, for having me. We're talking about you, I'm like you're in the small, then how can't know how can't

be cantal with UMKM. Okay. So, so I'm... So, I'm... Yeah. So, then, I'm... I'm...

Yeah, I'm in Jakarta, so, but I was a child, but, I'm a child, so. So, so... ...I'm a profession? I'm... ...I'm a...

...their de part of the department in the department of the PARTANI, Papa, that's public accountant. That's... So, yeah, I'm, so I'm going to be in

my father, like I'm going to finance or what I'm going to finance. Oh, no, back, I'm going to I'm going to be able to

that. So, yeah, because, when I was not long time, so I'm doing, because I'm going because I'm

with people, I'm like. I'm from the S&P, from the same from the same from, that I was also, I was in the USMP, I was also I'm at the first passion for winning. So, I'm going to be wakili Indonesia. So I'm going to, so we're in a lot of, so I'm going to work with the United, to Amsterdam, for Jamboree Dunia at the S&P.

How much? How much? How is it? 15. 15, 15. That's first time I came to go to the country, it was amazing just. It was amazing,

there's I've got to meet people, I've learned that, it's there's not that I'm not too, because I'm not evolved around me. There's so many things bigger than me. There's so many things bigger than me. Humble that one.

Okay. So many things bigger than me, then I, when I'm back to my aunt, Maybe I'm like, ha, like that's like that I'm gonna be given out of the country, like that's so that he can be really independent and not manja, because I'm a child, I'm a child of my mother's wife,

in my wife's my, my, my, my, my. The child is my father. To be it's why I thought that the world is going around me just. I think, yeah, well, he's like he's going to be out of the other but not because it's not too, because it's too too I was told me that when I was convinced I'm going to, you know, I'm going to be more than more than a man. Yeah, Bapa, I just said, if we're going to be able to

survive, not? That's the way. What's the other than what's from the other? I think, I think, I'm always always to be good with people. I just said, Deb. So, like, if we're, we're just to be good with people, if we're, if we're, we have to have good intention with people,

that's kind of, that's right, that's it, so, so, so, so, so, So we're like we're like we're we're not going to peleckon of people, like, like, Tukam parker, don't ever think he that,

what they're, they're at what, one day, you'll have got to have people, you, maybe they're going to come in you,

so, so, don't ever angop anyone who comes around. Yes, and you can't ever anyone who's below you.

That's like, if you're like, as a woman, you have to be independent, you have to be strong, and from, and from, I always said, if, if there's not any of them, no, no, no, no,

no, who are you want to do with you same, with you, you have to be by yourself, it's about you. It's about you. So,

But the plan was going to be in the SEMA just. Then I said, no, but I was going to be in SEMA AGO. So I got to get-timore-lap-lap-a-pah! The best school, at least I'd have a 1st 1st. At least I'd say, it's a year, then I've said, I'd be a year. Then I'd be to U.S. I'm just, I'm just, and I'm not in-temaning my father's

I'm not even with my parents. More because you're not to your people, for you're going to be to be in America? I think my parents. Because I see that I'm like, I'm like that's going to have many people, I think it's my comfort zone

just to be in Jakarta, like, especially when people when out of country, to, like, like, yeah, then, then I'm back, to there, I'm at the SMA, and I think it's my turning point,

point just because I said, because I said, because I was in psychokos, where my school is, in the people who are in New York, that's, who, they've got married, they're in there. So, my friends, my, my, my, my, my, children of the JRI, and the other people of the, the, of the, other people, the, of the, who, who, who, who, who, who, who, what, that, what, what, uh, who, uh, , there, people, who, who, people, people,

Because New York is melting plot, right? That's right. Yeah, well, I think I'm going to learn that, that they're not just that's not just now, but it's actually two and three years ahead, and they're very much more than very much and they're not going to peop,

but if you ask for help, they will help. All of my friends actually help me a lot in many things, So I'm not there. No, there's not quite, because, right, because, right, like, like, now, it's like, like, like, now, but when I'm out of the country, I'm going to be in Liyah, but...

The presuppant is that, that's just that's just. It's just... It's been the only, just on film Koboy. Yeah. Like, like, I was like, like to watch films and music, like from the music, like, so I've got from that, too,

lyric, so I actually learned from that, too, so many obstacles, so many, so many obstacles, and then I just gave you the pay-a-school, yeah, if you want to hang out with your friends, if you want to, like, leave-lour-you-crum, you have to work, you know, I learned respect from people, that, and then...

...commandirian, I'm learning, I'm really really, I'm learning to be able to be able to be able to be and the only person that can get our own people, and what can make us happy is we're we're happy,

we can't expect other to make us happy or expect other to do what we think we have to do that. That's all that I've learned, too, sir, sir, so long in there. And college? Yeah, and I was going to... So inyu.

So when I'm called, my mom's my phone, eh, crisis, this is this, you come back, I was like, ha. I was like, ha. I'm going to come to WMPTN. My friends, you know,

my friends, you know, I'm, I, I, got some offer, that, from NYU, from Arizona State University, then I'm going to get from NASA.

Because when in the same A-laphan, can mathematics is too, ma'amattica's difficult, so I always got the number-neigh-nees-boggled. So, when, in US, there's always like, the nilayn't there's extra points, so if I'd get 110, 120, so when I was something that I think, oh, NASA, that's, what, uh,

One of the other, like the interesting, like, you know, so, when there's a college in school, they're going to come, after I applied, ising-iseng-iseng-a-so-pah, but it's not just... It's not... It's not...

Yeah, al-a-a-a-a-a-a-tall-lis-to-butt... ...that, if you work with us, like there, like some contract, like that, like that, like that, like that, like, that's... I'm going to say, no way. No way. I'm like that.

I'm like that's all of that. It's all of that, like my mom said, you can't, I think it's time for you to come back, like, all right, I think, I think, I'm going to, I think, I think, I'm going to, because Chris Mon, you know, because Chris Mon, because Chris Mon, it was very tough, and then, then, then, I'm going to,

because I'm transferred to U.P.H. I'm lulled, I've worked in some places, but I think the place that really, really, really, made me, to have a bigirang, as a entrepreneur, and, what, uh, a professional who's professional

really, that's really, that's really, and that's been being to where, yeah, right, so when that... Asiangara. Yeah, when that I,

at that, at the, PR manager, when that title. But, I was backgrounded, actually marketing, because I was in L'Oreal, I began L'Oreal professional for marketing. And then, when I was in L'Real,

I said, why do you want to go to PING? I want to learn other, like, because if at PNG, I'm going to from from from Pantat Bay, P.M.P.M.P.M. ...same, until the mucon Bhaer, ESK2N. End to end. Okay, okay, I've got, I guess I think, the good thing about PNG is, that's kind of them make them make

the talent that's do whatever they can do for a brand, like, and I have great mentors in there, mentor mentors, like amazing. And then, it's like, no, job desk. It's all about end of result. And you can do whatever to make the result even better,

I think, I think, I think, I also, I've learned entrepreneurship. I was taking care of Pantin, Oli, Pampers, also the one of the milestones of the mainstowning can be the leading market, that there was opening in Thailand, that was for Southeast Asia, for brand communications, it was a new role,

that that's, that's, that's, it's been a big to compete with other candidates, So, al-a-a-lis, I'm going to walk into Indonesia, that's there? There are people in P&G? In P&G? In P.N. Lankas-Ais-Aisca, past, yeah?

Yeah, it's a, yeah, well, that, five, ten, 100? No. I think... Can't be it-tune-a-duty? Yes, less than ten?

Okay. That's than ten, I think. Wow. I remember my first one-on-one with brand marketing director of the Selewate that, the Indian, named Pankaj Duhan. I was ready with a book and stuff. Okay, so what do you want me to do?

Then he just looked at me to say, what do you want to do? He said, this is a new role. We were fine without you. So you tell me what you can do differently, differently in here with your new position. And then, what did you say? I was like, stop for a few minutes.

So like, okay, I'll be back to you in two weeks' time. Okay. So, I have to talk with everyone, like of Thailand, everybody to learn everything, do all the research, all the surveys by myself, talk to my boss to Singapore and stuff to get understanding. And then, then, then I'm... I'm going to get-to-you-like, I'm going to get into,

like, if marketing, you can, you know, about on-media, like, and, and, and, and, and, all of all of it. What I will do is, how how people in the other brand, we're talking about us. Because, I'm going to, I'm like this, if I'm khancatch, oh, nita is great,

by kind, smart, you wouldn't believe me. But if you hear it from many people, like, like, I said, Sam Kim, someone said, Pankaj, Nita is very good. And my boss, Victoria Greig, say, Pankats, Nita is very good.

And then other people say, Nita is very good. Then you believe I am good. So that's what I'm going to do here. Not bad. Not bad. Testimonial independent. It was crazy. But I think I learned about mentality,

because my mentor, that's with me with me gift of love. There's no good, if I'm good, they're going to say, you did a great job. If I'm, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm sorry, they're, they're going to be more than the other, you're going to be more because of critiqued

or a pukion? Critic. Okay. I think, yeah, critiquet is important. And that's what makes shape our mentality. Either we bounce back from it, or we run away from it. And I choose to bounce back from it, because at the real life, probably, pukyana is only 10%.

Probably less. Less, right? 90% is your failure and critics. That's not sadder, that they're opposite sides of the same coin, the gaggal and success. Exactly, sir. I don't think that if I'm not going to all of all of it, I can be like now, and have guts for founding a company,

I'm not sure I can, that's. That's a major turn-off event in Singapore, right? So, so I'm sorry, so that's Sohamehya, al-hmillah, been great in Haile and Shelders. It was interesting stories. I've rebuted with Global, because I want to change the whole strategy of Helens Shoulders at that.

When I'm the friend of global, Tophon, you're crazy, that. Because when that, PNG, that, TV company, yeah, Pat. I mean, it was on TV, we're massive, we have win the TV. But at that time, there, there was a TV. to digital, so I said, we need to change.

Because air insurance is not growing, because the target consumer is not on TV anymore. I said, we need to change it. So I was working with brand manager of the other, we have to fight. Okay, I fight the global for this, and you, like,

we're at this, we've met him, we're at least, I talked with my boss, I'm going to say, Victoria Great at that time, around English, you know what, let's do this.

Give me three months. If I fail, I resign, Because I said I'm saying, I'm saying I'm saying, Kim, when you're saying, you're not going to have results that's a different. If, if you're going to do something, it's impossible, he said. If you want to have results that you have to do, you have to do something that. And if you share ideas to us, the bosses,

then we're just to say, okay, I'm saying, but the concept is not too not to make a good, not going to make through, because something that's going to make through that will, oh, I'm not comfortable with this. Are you sure?

You're saying, you're sure, you're saying, you're sure, you're, if you're not, if you're not success, more reason. I'm going to say, Give me three months. Al-hmuiluil, I think. I think, to Kosovo, I think, to Ska, to Ska, for that.

How long in Asia-Pacific? One and a half a year. I, too, in Asia-Pacific, it's, like Pramagery, so, yeah. Okay. To Japan,

to Australia, to, to here, to, all the same, like, I'm, like, because of the journey of the traveling,

and because of consumer goods, we have to have got to come to consumer, so I have to understand consumer. And then I, then, mom, too, to come to Singapore, it's like, because I think,

my mother's very, so I'm curious, she's kind of paru, so, so, so y' yeah.

Yeah. I'm, I think I've got focused, I think, I think, I've got made a few mistakes, because I'm not focused. I think, you know what, I just need to take care of my mom. Because when I was I said, I thought that when,

if you're going to go to Singapore just, doctor's better better, and stuff like, because I'm still a little bit more, you're going to be with my family, And then I'm back to Jakarta, then I'm going to go back to Jakarta. Then, yeah, oh, my mom who'd have been called, so one of the people PINJ also, that was the staff of Pahawk.

Ayurthika, and then you're not, like, oh, this is it? To help, come just. I don't really like the government. Adieu, but, but, I don't think I'm interested, I'm like to sabbatical, like that, yeah, all right, then, what I mean,

I mean, I said, I said, why come come back to the other to go back to the other, I think you should come. Yeah, if you don't like the work you can't photo, and with the governor,

many people want to want to with the governor. My mom being my mom, and then I thought, and then I would surprise with what I saw that, just, I'm going to get that, too. Wow.

What's doing business for PTSP? Beres PTSP. So, that, PTSP was still like, like, now, now, I've got to get up to and, and, like, so, after, after,

after, I was after I was after I, there, there were some offer back to Singapore, Singapore. I got offer from Google. Singapore. I got offered from Disney. I'm going to go to Disney, so I'm because I'm going to watch film. Like, this is, like, yeah? Like, yeah.

Wow. Those are great offers. Yeah. And then I think, I don't know, I think I think you should be here. Yeah, yeah, I think I need to, I think I need to, what I mean to, what I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, When I'm going to be, I'm going to be right to be right. I'm going to go.

I think, yeah, that's like that. I've got to work at local company, at Combevar. And then, I was at that, at that, there, so, I was thinking that, I'm coming from, I'm coming from, I'm, I guess, I'm so,

because at the time I've interviewed with UMKM, That's what they said is, we don't know, ma, how much the way the way we're doing, but we're not, if we're going to do, we don't know, we're not to know, we're going to do, but now, product is good, good, but they said,

why not working marketing, because I was a person marketing and branding, how much the way, I'm not getting, and if I'm not getting, I'm like, if I can't, if I can't, if I can't ask you A, B, C, D, F.G, I'm doing the AFG, I'm doing it, I'm not doing that.

If I'm here for the M. If I'm not even if I'm working for UMKM. If I'm going, I can't, I'm going to pay a retainer fee. In that, like, like, bejolak in my head, like, like, to do something. until that, two years?

No kidding. Wow, it's long that. Two years, because I'm from professional, I'm not an entrepreneur, it's really. It was two years. I was about idea. At that time, I was, I was, so, from 2016, maybe 1.5-t-ttawn,

because I'm going to d'i-ed-a-ddddd-d-dd-a-d-d-d-d-18, I was 14 February 2018. Gaya, Valentine's Day, my love for Indonesia. cheesy, but I was thinking it, really, when that's it was really, right? So, maybe 1.5-tahua, because I was back to Jakarta, so I think, that's one and I thought that time, I was like, there was I'd say I'd say,

I'd like I'd say, I'm going to 20 people. 18 said, you're crazy. What you're going to do m-mkha, me? You know, you'd like, you'd like, now you're just, you're just, you're just about your job of your too, what's doing for your money, not there's doing money?

Just two people who said, I think you should do it. One, Parichat Sambara, which is now my partner, commissarist, the other is, Ibu Titi, that, at the, at the first, he was, angel investor,

He said, Nita, if you want to do this, I will put my money. I'm really, but you're that sure. You're like, yeah, because I know you, and I think you can make it. If you're Prytac said, Nick, I know you, you know, you've always have idea gila, and so far your crazy ideas works. I think this works, because,

and I think, I think, I'm going to do this, that, I have to do this, to make business incubator for UMKM, but not just, if now, because of business incubator, it's been saying business good,

but they're just giving, like, what we're doing curation, and then we're doing marketing, so, we're doing marketing, so, we're just, we're making it, so we're all right, they're all right now, they're all right,

like camcic, grandlucky, and, and, so much, so. This, this, yeah? Yeah, sir. Wow.

So, So what we do with us, we have we had a talk, and we've got to do with them. And what we're doing with them. So they're not going to be it at all. So I'm not doing that's... And this is it's been... And this is it's for how long?

We usually, five years, ma'am. Wow. So we are the marketing and the branding and the sales. So we're not one-off, yeah? Yeah, the sales of them. So they're focused to product. Because UMKM is the job as a product, and I've said I've talked about,

Pat, man who I've got into one. Yeah. So, it's a amazing product. Process of the selection is how much? So, in the first I also I've also made how to how much of how much of the way of the UMKM, I've got to be a lot, so much of the UMKM that's a referral.

Yeah. So, so many that's that. Al-hmillah, to that we've never, like... Kekurang. So we're still in the Ulland, Jaya, where, where, Mawakam, where, that, to get to MKM, UMKM, and in Bali, we have this also

we're together with one group of METCO, they who helped in the LAPAN. But we're branding in, so we're working with Pekanee Sangeh, in Bali, in the last they were all uprook-ambrug-up. For the Brass Organic. And this has been got certifications from Europe and Australia. Quality-quality,

artiness, product product is that out of abysa. How are now that are being built or is we're doing? We're now, for the really, branding, as a branding, like this,

individual brand that we're getting that's about 20. But if, if, if, the micro, now we have the name's call-hal-market, in,

in the, in the, in the top-the-d-d-tok-pedia, because it's like, I think, I think, to digital, UMKMKM's, it's, it's not, but the success is

it's not just, it's not just, and we're aiming at when our product, our product, or from Topopedia, or even shoppy, it's, it,

not all, it, no, it's okay, I'm sorry, yeah, so, maybe, b'b, b'b, b'it-p, but it's, but,

Yeah. Yeah. So, if we're going to be in-overs, we're going to be an official store, or it's a mall. And al-hamillah, product our products, we've got to be like that.

We have one product, sorry, if the micro, how the micro, that we're, we're, there, rous-a-bottus-a-bott-a-a-tus-a. Ratsh-a,

but we're growing like, for the micro-you-you-you-crow. So, here, micro-micro it, we have like market in the dokephabedia. In that's it's right, then we're going to be made get it, then we'll then we're out. But for the small, medium, like they're like, that we'll make brand,

brand, and we're making brand, the end of the meaning, for the key of the branding, right? Branding, yeah. Yeah. What's the common denominator from all 30 or 100-a-and-a-bant than what's about you?

Before I've been what, what's a success-a-minded? Open-minded. Open-minded. Yeah. Okay. Because basically, when they're to come to us, we're ac-ac-ac-ac-cac-cac-cac-pac. From the C-E-OGS, we're ac-cac-cac-cac-weeper.

We're getting, pricing we've beenerin. We're making for three-five-five-to-five-a-time this is your business. Potential business is this, this, Pat-Sysiness is this, product of the potential business is this, competition is so this. That's amazing.

And now I have team of the young of Indonesia. Governance is how? Sometimes you can give up to make permutations Yeah, sir. Yes. So, we have UMKUMKM we have

actually, the book of the money in KASCICT us. Wow. And that's like that, So that, it's up. It's great way. Yeah. I agree.

So, um, KAM we have one, the Arbid, the young mother two, that's, that's about the way that's, we can't like this, we can't get like this, we're doing, consumer segmentation, we're because,

it's like smart home, they're aiming just for people just for the kids'n't, I said, and that's, I said, that's all overhanding fruit,

where mature, that they more have more than more than they more get more than they want to spend money. And then we're going to spend money. It's in pandemic, it's growing 264%. So, when we had to pegged us in the first they're just one million, it's really good. When we get one year, so, one, it's one,

so each month, minimum, 500 million. Wow. Okay, tell a little, this is, how are you about, from all of UKM that you've been? I have putt. I have 40.

In the at the company UK. Oh, in the company, UK. Not in the KAYA, oh, not the KATH. Wow, Petan just,

Pataner, right-a-a-a-patan Aras-a-Balista that, the coffee liquor, that's about, or not? There's a thousand-a-khani? Hmm, I think it's a-bought, but maybe it's up 500. Okay, from all the 30-30-Busans.

If that was the Kaya-Mart that? Oh, Kaya-Mart, that... Okay, like, stakeholders that are libit- What I mean? I mean, because of our because of us, oh, that's maybe more than 1,000, okay. If that's I'm not even than 1,000.

Now, this can, the key, like, if we look, the universe UMKM, the energy here, this is 125, y'am. How, to scale up,

success story like this like this. Now, we're making something, so, sir, because we've done We've got to be able to scale up. And then, this can, finally,

so I'm going to, like, like, dot ID, it's a ecosystem to scale up this, where we can connect with producer, with, with, with, with, with, whatever, like, like, now, team's also, who are like to try and to be together with some other things, we're also doing with what-and,

for distribution and so again. So we're making ecosystem that, for scaling up everything. And also with marketing and branding and branding. We're like to make something, surprise, and then I'll ask you if it's going to be soon. And this is going to game-changing for scaling. I think it's going to be game-changer for scaling. Because in there,

to make them to learn to be think that as a WMKM, we have to be thinking how our product that can be better than the other. Because what I'm saying, why, why I can't, if I can't build UMKM? Because WMKM is consumer goods. Consumers' goods, consumer goods is the boss is a consumer.

Not the investor, not banking, it's consumers. So if the consumers love your product, like that. So that's, that's that's that then I'm going to give insight to all stakeholders that are with UMKAM. UMKM is consumer goods. It's a success or not that they're in the hands of consumers. So how much of the way that is success,

we have to make them put together with consumers. with the consumer. So, so that feedback loop is complete, completely, right, right. Because at the end up the day the day that's making that is a consumer. This, if you're

doing, how do you, do you? Do you? Do you? With whether that investor, or the company of the

company or what, so, so we, team I've already survey, survey of UMKM that is that they've got to APM that and UMKM that's not been

to peg. From the survey the two-two-and-you-the-same both of the same as much that they're not can't be bekembang is this business strategy, marketing,

branding, and then finance. And this is also same. Marketing branding, then, And then the new UMKM, who's the other than they don't have motivation and they're not sure they can success.

Narrick. What's the PAYA.D. ID 100% made up I'm sure I'm going to be a good and I'm going to success. Warrbiasa. That's. Survei this is very, by the team this month. So, so that's all that's about KHADOTID

said, I can success and I'm sure that success. They just need a chance. Yes, they just need a chance. Now, that's about finance. I'm not really, this is very interesting, if I'm just right, sir, can't, right, sir, is between bank

with vizis. Yeah. Banking this, at the end of the day, while even with the WMKM, there's care, and, in the same, in the labangu, they still they're still like that. Because bank, we can't say that's not

we can't say the right of the bank, not even though, but UMKM, sometimes, not have BPKB motor, motor just as much nichil. On one side, there is a visi that's more sexy to have start-up.

They're looking at UMKM a one, if they're going to if they're just, Just that's just the real hero for UMKF, consumer. Now, this is that we'll build again, in the ecosystem that we'll launch this

so much to the consumer this so that's a lot of people So there's one that's that's already from the... So, we have worked with the group B.A.V. There are some who have made up in a payment. Like, like, not a payment, just so, so, what, what, name,

this case, it's, it's, and, Okay. That, Balista, it also, obligation, but... Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. Okay. No, no, because it's not right. That's right, that's I said, UMKM is a tipet between bank

with VSI. VSI. Yeah, that's true, actually, what we've got to get that is an angel investor. So, if there's project new, I'm going to be able to

with some of people that I know to be an angel investor, want not invest this, we'll present to them. Now, And when you're when they're, if, when they're just,

they're just for the end up for the When the consumer's like the barangue. Exactly. It's all that's just mutter and it's just angel investor. So, this is actually actually,

education, who I'm going to I'm going to be able to have many people who are like, now, I'm

like, but if, if, what's the typical investment size? maximum one, ma'am. For the most of the most of the cost. For the only one-off,

only for the money, and that's just one-off or just a while just, one-off? Yes. Okay. Because, because, because, they usually have

money to make 10 products. When in marketing and branding with with us, this is the product. They're not just the but for the 100 product, but then, after we've beenering,

what the money, the money, the price of the other than against COGS, and so much, so, because, the way, you market this?

How do you market this? How do you market this? How can you want to have 200, 1M, to help? I mean, your voice has credibility, has credibility, yeah?

That's how much more than that's one of it. Now, this is one of it, okay. Okay, sorry. No, I mean I'm just saying that's one of it, but at the moment, I'm that, I'm talking about with my friends and because they look at the product oh, wow, M.KM is like this,

okay, yeah. Ode, this, from the money I, I'm going to put in deposit, So, I'm at all right? What's the growth is 100%? Yeah, right? Yeah, sir. Yeah, yeah, I'm just I'd put in here,

maybe I'm angel investor, and I'm going to, and this is all the cash flow positive, profitable? Alhambly, cash flow positive, sir, man, all right, that. Okay. Okay, this we've already

having pandemic, 16, 17, the last, many, There's many of the other than what about how they can survive and not much they can survive than they'll do not be doing adaptations or adjustment. Cobra, yeah, sir.

That's tough, sir, sir, because we're really shutting down. But this, this, all of the world, from the world, from the from the company, small, and from the company, al-hm-QM-QM-KM-KM-KM-I this, all of to have been in digital ecosystem.

Yeah. No, there's that not not that's not from the from all of clients or mitra

kind of not, okay. So, so, so. that's already in digital ecosystem, and we're using it as a sort of advantage, because, like, because, the company,

they're gagged in digital, right, but other than they're who they're in offline, I'm just a joan, oh, I'm in the off-line, and the company, to digital in the same. Yeah.

And I always say, UMKM is also I'm very now. If you're already to talkopedia, you're as jazard with the other other other companies or the official store, or it's the most

ranking. If we're the highest ranking, if we were in Malaysia, I said, you know, then, well, now,

now, now, in the future of the United States, so jadeghurs, like them big, but in digital. Now, at the same, at the same business and the business and small, from the titic that's the same, to digital,

my thought that is an advantage that's been by the products of UMKM, partner, and, and the one from the time, really, it's from

who, not get to get get in the context the open-minded, but it's not. It's not able to do not happen. Right, sir. So, when we were at the time KM, we interview the owner's usually, if we see that if we're,

if this owner this doesn't have the owner this doesn't have cuterbukaan, we'll not go, because for me, That's the most crucial. Yeah. Yeah.

For the condition for, maybe, to getterlibatana you with anyone. Right, sir. It's, it. It's really, you know, this is, it's hard and many. Yeah, so hard.

And they, they really, they're really, like, if, if, if, if, if, if, , for really, , really,

like this, this is like this, oh, yeah, have to be-pom, have this, this, this, like, so, I'm going to, packaging I'll get it, and I'll get it, even there's a name-it-ganty. This, we've got to look,

in 16-17-bun-the-lun-the-lun there, many who can't make not do adaptation. They who can't do not do adaptation, it's been coming-lumpuhan temporary. There's even some of the plumpuhawned. Yeah.

That's very much, but I still get to how, to you can scale up so that you're in a million-an of the UMKM in, or micro-UMKMKM, it's be able to be able to be able to be able. That's right, right. That's what I said.

But actually, what's important is but success in digital. And that's the most important. And that's the most important. Now, after we've got in a while together with UMKM, we know what the difficulty, the loophole in, and all the other

and all the other. We've now, we've now have one formula to make this scale-up. So, it's not-long-and-and-and-and-and-and-all-and-and-and-all-and-and-all-and-and-all-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-mmach-and-and-and-and-and-and-mmmmmix, to work this is to be different with the other. At the same I'm saying we're making, that's a platform that we're making up to make up to

how how how can't use with me? Because if consumers like with me, investors are like with me, investor is lyric, oh, who you're buying, I'm going to buy, I'm going to have, I'm not having to pay for all right.

Just look just, it's now that's that's a lot of it, so that's not just, it's just, legitimation that WMKM is being able to be coming, and have something unique, like,

like, just the Jammu Kita, it's, better with the other because we're concept that, that's really, to be made,

how it's to make to the other How much? The concept is jamu on the rock. Okay, what that's that's a drink, and it's bearable. The color is a lot of the way of the way of the color color, the color color color color.

Wow. Digestion, the color of the color color of the umu. Elang-sing, the color of pink. And team my team's to learn to solo about how to make jamu is like what? And, it's not only the hot or in-dain, casiat is same. Mm.

Mm. That's about... If you're going to ask, if you're going to be a bit of the same thing, that's being a partimbanger, for, if you want to be a person WMKM?

Yeah. If he'd make a product that cholesterol is really but it's not, or her? Or, you're not for the people, in the people in the people? So, so, if I'm always, I'm always, who's always, who's the same.

Because, for four, five years, to be about the health. So if, if you high cholesterol, we'll see how can modify, not? Okay. Because this is not about about the health, but whether we like it or not, trend to the trend to the future,

it's about the product of our products, our products, we're organic, has organic, and have certifications Europe and Australia. For people know that this is really really, good.

Tempe, Indonesia, like, and then, sambal, because samblame, not sambal that can be long-lama-l organic? There's sambl organic, that's what's hard, but if, if, if, sambal organic,

means, all of ingredients that are organic from ingredients to be organic. If I'm, if I'm foratine, product-product-organic, that, elastisitistice, the cost, really, It's very much more than the space.

Yeah, so to get more than the space. And if the people are micro-U.MKMKM we can be dig to to that, and, the way, they've got to be able to. Yeah, so, so we always want to be able to view it to be there, same, like this Kis, this. Duh, I, P, P, Tidini, ma'amia many much, We'ller, we can't make sure that's

for flavor, maybe, not have to match-in'-smobile. There's tastes ingredients other, that's flavor-flavori without it, yeah, they're going, so, that's just we're taking, so detailed that. What you're also, or non-fmcggg is?

Non-fmcggg also, but in Indonesia, fortunately, Fortunately, it's FMCG, that's the same, that's the FMCG. That's the same thing that's also UMKM. Wow. Okay, this is one metric that I've used to be with productivity marginal

in Indonesia. We're relatively, must be a reddish-grinded, but we're more than $24,000 per-or-to-o-one for what, what, yeah, capacity of people from what's about in Singapore that's about $17,000. Yeah. That's because of the cost of financing

in there is more than here, then, and then, the of infrastructure more mappan, there, than here, and then, variables, variable, like,

So, the end-uging, it's kind of very much them up-enged Yeah. Yeah, right if they're to export-oriented to the front. And, some of the other

right, but if they're to scale up in context exportation, yeah, they're going to be with people who productivity is more

more than we than we're that, that's how, the pemakalance. That, is something more complex, because,

back again, we talked about we said ecosystem, yeah, so that's really the ecosystem that's big, that's much. From the distribution, from the material

back, from, uh, the, uh, that's, that's, that's,

I'm going to I think that's I think that's people who have used to make to make a ecosystem this more quake. At us, aty.

Because we're, because we're, expertise in marketing, branding, so that's what what we have to make, we have to make the ecosystem that.

At least from that we can be able to Because I'm very many people from other that can be able to help for other. That's up our startup, our start-up we're amazing, you know, pa, yeah? That's about it, distribution just,

if you're just being back again, now, it's also, it's also, in the marginal, that. Now, how now, now, now, what's the most that's the most of the MQM is, and also,

and the other, that, how much more than they can more than they access. With quality that's good, not only quality that's as aadown. We talked about organic, we talked about, that's about,

it's all that's all of the backo. And UMKMQM is not much that's easy to access with the backu. Packaging just one one of one that's really such, such,

packaging, want to pesin, for Mokyu has 500. As simple as that. For UMKM, KM, 500 is a lot of money. Barriers to entry to? Exactly, sir. That's one that we've got to be in the

lapangant. Bahaan bachu. Many that are actually are actually to buy it in the pastar. Because suppliers, suppliers, they're not to give to them. to them, MOQ, again. So at least from the

from the Sisi We can't from the from the marketing and branding. Then, also, maybe, maybe the angel investors that can help them to be able to make sure that they at least could produce 500 as well

and then 500 this with marketing and branding are jured. Yeah. From, from the other person that's what's what you're in-game of their is what, exit for in-acusisies,

or end-game-ne-game, to, they can crystallization the value or what, or what? For the- For the-a-a-a-a-a-a-piesing their, but, at the time I've been to talk to them, I gave, if I didn't just the vision we.

Back, back, back, back, Because because, because it's consumer goods, so I think, I'm exit game the game has IPO. Because, come back again to consumer goods, back to consumer, but it's also, yeah, maybe in acosisi and soagena. But, it will be more

to be more than, UMKMMKM we can IPO. Mm-hmmmKMKMKMKMKM we , like, five-tahmkMKMKMKMKMKM can be start-tap our start-tap our and I'm And I'm sure that's good,

and inshallu, with the help of marketing and branding, and we also are also to make up the ecosystem of the and we also to make sure that, and we're also to be inundered from inshallel, because we'll, because we'll see, potency. So, where location? We're many of them, in Jowabarad, in Jakarta, Tanggrang, Bali. Okay.

Sumatra, Kalimant, Maluku, Sulawesi, Sulawesi, Papua, flores, but Sumatra and Kalimantan, we have beenaunta binawa, but we've been really we're at-up, because logistic issue. Yeah. Back to the ecosystem that, that is. Yeah, that's a big of why marginal productivity

we're still less. Right. Yeah, right. You've talked a lot about the success stories. There are not that gagged? in terms of relationship. Okay. Bucan kineerja?

Okay. That's... For that, maybe, maybe, maybe, ...what you can't petick from the what would you do differently going forward?

What I will do differently is I will do differently interview and give them the worst scenario for everything. Okay. Okay. In terms of relationship, in terms of...

Because this is marathon. At least three to five years, right? And growing brand, it's got to need a time. As you know, right? It's just a bit of time, not just instant, so, really. Okay, you're a great brand builder, yeah, right? We're about the brand um, KM, to the front.

There is, like, like, PepsiCo? I'm not sure, sir. There? There? If the product that is Indonesia-baked, I'm sure. Jamo, I'm sure, I can't. We have a dream that jam-o-neet-that-starbuck, that's like starbuck, nanty-notting-the-depan.

Because jam-o, it's a Indonesia-a-bank. Not-bis-with-it-and-it-and we can win there. I'm like that's like like India. Because like Indonesia. I want to bring the richness of Indonesia to the world. That's, Indonesian talent, Indonesian products, Indonesian brand. Even in the future, if I'm you're talking, endgame of the ID, what the endgame is like? Dot ID is what the game is to make the MQM as IPO.

The second is we can be a company the pride of Indonesia. Like Amazon, like Google, like that's from Indonesia. It's really good. But there's something that's a very systemic. Model, he's, the most of the other, not in the country. As brilliant as any idea in Indonesia can get.

If it's not with fulous. Right, ma'am. Not be real, and let's be realistic. Yeah. Now that's, it's just a systemic, though. Yeah. Amazon, it's big, because there's trillions of dollars in there. Exactly.

Yeah, right? And they're... Sabar, patient capital. Yeah. They're sad to be 20-town, and from the end up in 2000s, right from the 20-a-bottability of Amazon, it's much to look sustainable.

Now, in the in the world, not much to be able to 20 years, yeah, can, so that can profitable, and the sumlily, the number is, there's,

now, how, if we're going to global-in, or globalization of brand of some of some, or some, or some, or if full-lusses not there, if you're not going to be, can't say-it-a-an, we're not.

We're not with the money from the world. Right. That's a bit tabrackan, with aspirations you, to make indahed-kindle-branded brand-caya, which, which is kind of a brand, but not kaied with the money.

To it. Now, that's what I learned, I think, what I learned as I'm in the world is, we respect the process. Yeah. Yeah. In Indonesia, people,

people don't want process and and the result. Yeah. That, from from the kids, the young, investors, investors, we're like that

where the process is the important, growing pain that is important. And, and, I mean, back again, that's a ecosystem, and that's something that we're as a as a one of a country, have to be able to learn with this process that we have to be we do. The people, like what I said, they're struggling for 20 years.

Yeah. Before now. But, but the other than the people, the medall of the model their, that's not give up. Because they're sad. Right. Beto.

Bedan's in here, maybe not as sabbara. If you're going to, what do you think? I mean, I'm saying, this chicken and egg. So,

you can endhack can make endhacking brand. more than a position that's authoritative to socialization our importance of our own to make up to earn uproreder or liquidity or model. How it's the way to do you, and this is not to do you in two-month.

This process is a long, it's long, right, but it's, but you've been made up to three to five years, You've got to be it all. Sucasas all. If I'm not for their own, not for them for their own

but for the people of the importance in the world, ecosystem, and this is, and I'm sorry, the government also, to make sure, that it can't be global if money supply or liquidity

or liquidity, it's, we'll be with phenomena where only model from outside. And the kind of our to gettergantunging our to the other, it's more than we're more. Not that we're not going to model out,

yeah, if we're not in the country, we're out of out. But if you're aspirations is to globalization brand Indonesia, succour-sukur with the and the support from the people of Indonesia in a holistic, not only brand building,

but it's actually, that's not a lot of business. Yeah, right. Right? Yeah. Yeah. You've been... Did you, is there's a discursus or discussion with the people in the government or...

or who can't come to that about success story that there What is there? No. No. Because I'm... I have to beaqqqa'aned I have success story, then I'm going to be able to.

I don't want to gobrow when we're saying. Why, why we're just in the year this this time this time? Right. Right. We're not going to say, sorry, I'm not to make to depend on the government,

but this is at some point, Just right? Yeah. When they're just, they're going to get to, you know, to the right? Yeah.

So, that, so, so, I'm, I'm, to be much to be able

and so much because because we have success story. We've got got learning it.

So, that's all the , It's like what, and how it's how to how much. So I also said, you're in the UMPMKM is a peat between bank and fisi. Right.

They're in the middle, that this is not, this is, but this is this can be able to become. Consumer goods, now, now, person,

person, business goods. PNG, Unilever, Nisley, New-Lexe, Coca-Cola, but just got. But they still still still still.

Now, we're also with us, with us, as like, like, dot-id, they're also being taken. That's the story that you have to know. Yeah, government has made a way, now, now. Tugas our time is to make the way that's more

and more smoothed, at the dead is the little, that's the little that we can that we can't do that we can't because if you're going to be more than more than more than credibility more. Yeah.

More, more than you want to about anything about anything. Yeah, right. And I'm going to take, I'm going to how to we can brand

of the brand Indonesia. Some of many other than other words about about about naredumber, that is underrated, right? Parall with

with attributes that population the most number-emort-the-one democracy the number-third-the-three-the-thiguer in the Muslim majority

that's the in the world. But if they're like not know about Indonesia like what we want to like what we want to do. Yeah. Yeah, right? Where they're more than the other than the other than the other than the more than the more than the better than

building is more than more than you. How much, you know, in the other, product, product, like, for brand Indonesia? I'm my experience, my experience, yeah. I always believe that Indonesia can be brand from our each of individual our each of individual, we all right. When we're interacting with them,

like what's like, that's the time I'm in Thailand. I'm, I'm mimipin people who are not not in Indonesia, All right. Bosnia, both of Asia-Pacific, and Japan, and all of all of them all. They see, wow,

Indonesia is amazing, yeah? They see it through me, they see it through Pahhabibi. They see it even through you. Well, this is about you. I mean, I mean, I mean, that's what I'm saying, that's what I'm saying, that's the, in the, in the, the,

He's also good. I always believe, let's start from us as an individual, act like Indonesian. Yeah. That's not even afraid to to say I'm a person and this is me, and this is me, and this is we.

From that, if I'm from that, that can make we can make, from that from, this is from from from from from from, from, from from from from from from from

from from from, from from India, from the other, from from... from people, from from from... because, Indonesia is, maybe, muddha, from the little, so,

so, it's... ...and be seen, ...and so, ...so, I've been, many, many films... ...theirred from Indian Asia. ...and, like,

film Hollywood. Jota Aslim. Yeah. Now, like, what, what is the... EcoWaS. Yeah, film Hollywood is, you know where you're going to be, oh, I'm going to Indonesia. And all of all kinds, that's all of all right.

That's, that's it's already. And from a Jota Slim, from a Gita Wirawan, from a little, people can see Indonesia, oh, it's from, oh, it's not, Ronaena is professional, wow, RANisha, it's smart, yeah. Oh, they're humble, yeah.

They're really, they're from there, come from there, sir. So I'm just can't answer from that, from the experience of my individual. So it's from each of our individuals. We have to be able to look to Indonesia, we have to be Indonesia, not just to talk

that we are that we are in Indonesia, If we're outside, we're being people in Asia, we're like, we're like, because of the people in Indonesia's like that. So, so on the right of it, and from us and from us. I'm sure, now, in Hollywood, even, from a jocaslin, who's saying, Indonesia, yeah?

Professional, yeah, that's great, yeah. Oh, it's great, yeah. This, I see, this is maybe, This is this isa-tengara and Indonesia, how with action corporat like what's just what's just about with Gojak and Tokoppedia, and also with Grapp,

also with Trafaloka, I think we're getting to be on the radar, yeah, more so than ever. Yes. And this, and this, digitalization has accelerated evolution,

what I think I'm not positive, for us to the future. But if you're back to the penitist, you're one of five, one of ten. But I'm sure that in PNG, you're more than people Indian. Yeah. Yeah, right?

How to there 100 nita in PNG? Howe, how can be like you can't build up, so that this is multiplicity. Yeah. It's a trasa, that's it. Yeah. Now, this is really that I reapply, you, pa, at caya.d.id.

So, at cah.d.d.D.D. this company, we have culture. We have principle. We have how to be together and I'm I'm trying to be able to be able to be able to people with the young I'm giving them tough love

Describe, tough love tough love, that team I know, if they do great, I will say, good job. If they're not doing great, what other than with people, yeah, I'm going to be very tough

but they're smiling. Okay, talk about this. Okay, talk about this. When you recruit, what you're what you're looking? Resilience. If, if I'm going to do not know, but if I interview, I always ask what is the lowest moment in your life? And how you bounce back from it. Okay, fair enough.

This, this is we're going to hear the grid that's used as attribute as positive. But after I think, sometimes, it's also not too positive too. Because if we have great grid that's great, it's a good that's a scenario

where we're too I'm not to be it's it's a lot of a lot of a lot of it's it creates over-belief yeah, right? Yeah, that's okay if it's okay if it's right, but if it's wrong, yung-ymp

over-confidence. Yeah, not necessarily over-confidence, but over-belief, we're we're percaya with something that we're not, we're greg-gaban-tress, But if you're in the same-al-parker from the first, you're yon-sert. That needs to be addressed.

And that's maybe, must be puttimbled in the process of recruitment. Yeah, I agree with you. I'm more with what you said, what you said, where people can repurpose, how people can repurpose of their own. That, wow,

Wow, wow, not just like that. But don't get too flexible, too. Yeah. Or flexible? Flexible. Flexible. But, finally, if at KIDIDIDI, that's alexi alom, yeah.

I can really see team that I know that these people are going to be a good leader. Pastil, well, when you're kind of a good leader, you know, can't be a mancha-negara. like that's going to be able to save them to make the best of each country that I've ever I've worked with Singapore, like, if we're making a certain kind of a campaign,

when we're going to go to come in, they'll just sit down to me, feedback. I want to give you feedback. The people in Indonesia, He's called, he's got to come up, "'Bos my not like with me.'" "'Malue, Sunkan, or what?

"'Yeah. "'Indian. "'Of course, they always "'the one who talk. "'Yeah, right? "'Philippines. "'Who want to take care of the project?' "'Sometimes,

"'mereka just, they don't know how "'how can't do it. "'I want to learn from it.' "'Git-hmm. So I think I every day I learn from my team. I learned from OMKM. I used, every day I learned from each interaction. What I like is, in a room meeting, we can be a battle,

oh, no, I don't agree, wow, wah, wah, wow, wow, what, for me, meeting, lunch. That's, it's a mental and open-minded, that's great for able to be able to at all of the first, when I'm worried about my boss I think that I'm not like to me, I'm scared. I'm a lot of because I'm Indonesians, that's right.

The boss's my, no, it's okay. I let I tell you, that's it. I'm angry at that time, but I know you'll do better. Not that I'm not that I'm madame with you panng, that's, oh, okay. I'm like, oh, now I understand. I was like to make up at one, at that I leveled,

yeah, still, yeah, I was still. Then I was surprised at that when boss the Pacific was going to come to Indonesia. I was making with him in front of forum, for one thing, he didn't marra, after boss I'd call, then, boss my, I was saying, I was, I was surprised with the situation,

situations, yeah, then she's he's got to know, next time, this, this, this, and then, then, that's what's marrained me that then endorsed me to go to Singapore. He said, I remember her. Chengli.

Yeah, but I'm, at that time, I'm making marky-marked, I'm not, I'm not sure, not, I'm not, that's one of the one who endorsed you. Really? Wow. So it's all about professionalism,

it's not about personal stuff. about personal stuff. And I learned from each of it. Now, that's what I mean that's the talent in Indonesia has been able to be able to compete. Now, even the leader-lider, multi-national companies in Indonesia, whether we like it or not,

Indian. It's by Indian, for multinational company. At least, at least, companies, companies, Indonesia, start-up Indonesia,

leader. We need more storytellers. I always say that's always about that. Okay. To the future of the year, this is the last question this is the last you,

look at your, line-minering, kaya.id, how, how, you're going to look, Indonesia, how, how, so how,

Yeah. I think that's all that's all right, yeah, pa, yeah. For kai.d.id, 2045, the hopean there are some we want, we're going to be IPO

and kaya. Kaya.D. it can quote-unquote like PING, who have many There's many of brands, great, great, great, and then, can be individual,

but also can be one, to be the big of the United Nationsia. You see yourself as an aggregator, or consolidator? I think, I want to be actually more, not I mean, like, more on

who really, that's all about collaborations and ecosystem. Not necessarily ownership, yeah? Yeah, not necessarily ownership. The pertaintinger, but collaborative. Yes. Okay. Not necessary ownership.

Some of it, like Jamunea we own, balista we own, because we believe of it, then we'll just invest, but but, but collaborations, too, but, because it's all about collaborations, too, because it's not certain that it's to be good for them like that. Sometimes they just go to with them like that.

I think that. Indonesia... Oh, don't know. Until 2004-5, Kaya, this, have been made up for a U.S.KM. Or micro-O-MKMKM. Agapar-asspirative, how about?

Challengen's how about? If you challenged us? I see, I'monging about jute-an. Okay. You've got to shoot for the stars. Yeah. Well-UMPM-QM-QA-M-QA-M-Qa,

can't? Caryawain is 125, yeah. Okay. So, yeah, a jute-an UMKM that we've touched, 100 IPO. What do you think? Oh, doable, very, in 24 years. Yes. 100 IPO.

How are you going to ensure sustainability? sustainability of Kaya. ID? I'm building the culture at Kaya.I.D.I.D. So it's the culture of the company is strong. I also learned from PNG. The culture is strong, that's what I built. And team that, I also, I have, they have to be able to our cultures.

So, so, at the time I want to, I'm going to gantin my kids who are this, which is now, who are the key-ed-edict-id, who will be the positions, position, on the uptas, the M.O., C.O., and soagin'a-o, and soagin'

with culture that's like that. Because culture is important. Not who's the leader, but what is the culture? So the leader's ganty, the cultures will still be there. The vision and the mission of the company will still be there. You see yourself as a bottom-up

or top-down type of leadership? type of leadership. But I'm leading by examples. I'm meeting, I always tell you tell my team like, what do you think? What is your result? How do we're like this? Because from there, I'm going to learn thinking, the process. The process of the thinking is what?

Why, we make this kind of decisions? That's. Indonesia? Greater than USA, I hope. Wow, okay. Okay. In context of what? In the context of what?

I'm not, but still, I mean, we're still, yeah, we're getting there. But at least in terms of the name, the people know, the people who know USA, they're going to know Indonesia. Indonesia,

Population is the most of the consumer is consumptive, so that's the other than all mawomeness Indonesia, and I'm sure with we many start-up that's now and then product we're good, many people who are great who've been in other-negris who've said

individual, this, individual, at least in 2004, the people who know USA or know Indonesia. That's easy. Give me something more difficult. Okay. This, this is I said I'm at least the lead. 24-year-mast, it's still long.

Okay, not too, but it's too long. It's quite long, yeah. If by then, everyone who know America, already know Indonesia, it's too that's too we can achieve that sooner.

Okay. The leader, Indonesia, Indonesian people become the leader in an important position around the world. I think that will be something that we'll be something that's going to be something amazing. Now, I have a endgame for consumers in Indonesia, in 2004-5. I'm challenging them use of their daily life.

Wow. Cool. 80%? Top. For Indonesian consumers. Great. Content local is 80% and, is heathed.

Yes. From the money, and all of all kinds, that's every day, 80% local product in Indonesia. Wow. What other, Nita, Pissan Pesan Ayrus.

Samson right, sir. It's all about process and ecosystem. And it's all about, this is all responsibility of our responsibility of our people. I, I, I, I, I, too, because this is about

UMKM, and many who not that the last two crises before 2008, 98 and the most robust, survivability, endurance, durability is UMKM. Maybe the crisis is a bit

a bit more than a little to make them vulnerable, but that's only they, or many who have been able survive with the other than in the next 24 years, until 2045, UMKM is a big of UMKM is a big of our resilience,

the tattana economy our to the future. Yeah, to get up. Yeah, right? And I think that's what makes Indonesia be better than the other one of one that is unique is because we have a UMKL. have you have to make up.

Yeah. Just, it's just the inclusively inclusive, but murra, but... Right. ...brily... ...that's what we're also. Yeah, that's what we're having hope that there's going to be a job out,

for WMKM for financial that, and, also, that, I was also in Indonesia, the money is to be in Indonesia, not to try to out of the world to be able to make up to the company in Indonesia. That's it.

Thank you, Nita. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Man, that's, that's from Kaya.iqa.i. Thank you. Endgame is a podcast by the School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia, the first Indonesian Policy School to offer a full-time master's program

in English, and is a production of the cinema, Indonesia's award-winning entertainment and technology company. Oni Jamhari and Anga Duima Sasonko are our executive producers. Ahmad Zaki Habibi and Jimmy Kuntoro are our supervising producers. Hannah Humaira and Farah Abida are producers. Bobby Zarqasih is our director. Aditya Dema Pratama is our director of photography. Video editing by Felicia Wiradiya. Alvin Pradana Susanto is our sound engineer. Prateri Prati Prati and Vera Rahmwati are research assistants.

Aulia Septiadi and Ferbizal Optama are our graphic designers. Transcriptions and translations by Isfi Afiani. The song you're hearing is by Neil Giuliarso, Ferdinan Chandra, and Philippeus Chahadi, mixed and produced by Gibran Wiriwian. The production of this episode adheres closely to the local authorities' health and safety protocols.