Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Oscar Darmawan: Bitcoin Instrumen Investasi atau Uang Masa Depan?

Episode Date: August 18, 2022

Oscar Darmawan, co-founder dan CEO dari bursa aset digital terbesar di Indonesia INDODAX (sebelumnya Bitcoin.co.id), bicara pelajaran hidup paling berharga, nilai intrinsik dari Bitcoin dan alasan masih diperlukannya pengawasan dalam perdagangan aset kripto.  #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #OscarDarmawan -------------------------- Download aplikasi Indodax di Google Playstore dan Apple App Store: https://indodax.onelink.me/qyYY/Endgame Pre-Order merchandise resmi Endgame: https://wa.me/628119182045 Berminat menjadi "policy leaders" berikutnya? Hubungi: admissions.sgpp.ac.id [e-mail] https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: https://endgame.id/season2 https://endgame.id/season1 https://endgame.id/thetake Kunjungi dan subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCu8fHdbHwJ1MFqf7Uz95aFw https://www.youtube.com/c/VisinemaPictures

Now, if we talk about crypto, yeah, if we talk, this is, if we're taking spot, that means, actually, you're not really looking before you're making sure. So, if we buy Bitcoin, if we buy Bitcoin, if it's $250,000 in 2017, maybe in 2018, you'll be a lot of great. Wow, do.

Bitcoin's down, so 30,000. Then, then, that. If you, you know, that you'd dole at that. You're lost. But if you're trying until 2020 to end up in the $800,000, you're, you're,

you're underwriting. But that's not everyone has got to be able to beaithuan. Mental investment is like that. This is endgame. Hello, I'm often I'd be asked in social media.

I want to contribute for Indonesia that's more great in 2004-5. It's the way from where? Maybe one of one one of the one of the same

policy. Now, that's the point public policy. And to change is definitely also policies, right? And to deliver

it, it's, it's, it's technology, but too money, and but also. Now,

the problem to have analysis the biggivable it, is, we can't we're

to make actualization some for many of the problem, and, what's the sifatneral, not only

in the government, but also in the business, and in non-profit. Mantan Seagiant

P.B. Ban Ki-Mun, the President Singapore, Lishin-Lung, and journalist Richel Meadow, all of

law-un-un- -un-un-lussan public policy. S-GIPP Indonesia, School of Public Policy Pertama in English,

is a under-Bassis- under-Batch for Batch Ter-Barrue. For detail on program and how to make a new or just be consultations about rencana career

to your friends to the different, hubunging SKPP Indonesia through link that is in description. Now back to the show. Hello, we're here

we're coming Oscar Darmawan, founder, CEO of Indodex, but also also, as a Bapakain in Indonesia. Oscar, thank you very. Thank you, Mr. Thank you, Mr.

from here, thank you, thank you, I'm going to ask, you're in Samarang, and there's a little about the time of life. Tell you, then. So, since I'm from, where, and where, and where, and,

where, so, so if you're about the day of my life, I'm a unique. Tangar birth, it's automatically, always, I'm going to remind al-mahum of my mother. Because, because the day

last night of the 5 December. Al-ma-hum-im-Ibu-say is 15 December. But, in all, from the start-lakeer, from, I'm from, school, and,

so, the day, this, December, because, maybe, at the time, it was all the end up manual, yeah, so maybe there's

there's a lot of un-gul-a-lars-a-old, sometimes, I, I, I, think, I, dissalami people two times. Five and fifteen. Five and fifteen.

So, so, people who are the people who are seeing from KTP, yelami my time 15. Orang the people who know I'm having me time five. Now, but,

because, I'm at some kind of having, I'm having to be happy. Because, because when when the

school, people, people, people, people, people, the same time the time,

but because the day I was the five, but, people in document on 15, people are there,

is there about to be afraid I'm sorry, because I'm afraid because it's wrong, because, because, you know, so I'm always

to be repopacan, with friends, they're not ever had been who's having to because, because, because,

the reason, that's all of, so, yeah, Oskar, Mottolang-Town, yeah, but,

but, but, but, but, but, that's, that never did do not,

that never did be able, but, yeah, that's that's about, how school? How about? Yeah, I'm a, I'm at K.C.

I'm at KSD in Beredtus. So, Semarang. In Semarang, we have a small like, if people people of the education Catholic, it's always, TKSD in Bernadus, the SMPI in Domenico,

SMI in Loyola. Now, this is like, Hori Grill. And, but to move to Loiola it's not quite, because of really, the choice.

From Dominico Savio, who's known the choice and then then just to goloyola. In Colosel Loyola that's,

it's just the important to be a pionnirondy, taking risk, and solidarity to the what you what you

school? More to IPA or IPS? I was particular my job doctor. Because,

because I was every time I golemyada, I go to the I'm going to win the world. Wow. Even when S&P, I was

one-satunia in the area in Gawah Tengh, which made get aphat, the value 10 semprinus

one of the province of Javah Tateh. Dulu, yeah, if the name Nama LATIN, human, name,

organ, tubu, all the function of the form of hormone, that I'muasai. So, if we've got catalog,

catalog, My name's slogan, I'm, all people are talking about what, uh, what, the other words, like, "'Nandhi, it's just the patient "'because I'm, because I'm

"'documented, and because I also "'ter pangu, and I'm going "'inningle when I was D. "'Carder Class 5. "'Because the jantung, "'and the jantung, "'and the jantung, "'the, if, if, if,

"'if it can be operated, "'it can be able to be able to "'it can't. "'Cumma, because my, the conditions, economy, the family, our family, we're, very, very,

so he's not quite, so he's up, and he'su, down, even, even my dad's my dad, if I'm gonna'u how my wife,

how much, when you're gonna. My mom, when I'm gonna, we're, we're, we're five of so,

when I'm not we're, we're, little, I'm, That's one of the biggest regret in my life. So if people ask you to there's not one moment

that you want to do you want to in the life? I always saw me answer, just moment in the day of my mother's my other than I'm not going to because that day that is the day

where I'm going to ask me to come from school more than the because I'm rachin of the school So, when I was from S.D. Class 1 and S.D. Class 3, goblok, really, butto-been-incar-incers.

Antiette-naec-class or not-nac-nac-class. Because... Because I'm al-lase. Because I'm al-Aleast. Because I more than to work-a-st-and-merjerkers-a-st-half. Bi-Q-Q-Q-Q-Q-dust. I'm still-deged-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-. Then, then, I started to realize, oh, I'm not, you're not-ststst-l-the-school-st,

like a game. Fun. If we can go to the Then we're like to monster that more

I'm I'm trying to I'm saying position 10 big and I'm I'm trying to so I'm so I'm

saying about my mom I'm I'm sorry I'm because I'm because I'm going to beauched I'm going

time 5 o'clock Now, I'm sorry I was just to the room of the I'm going to come to my mother's in front of ambulance but the manned my momadupt. But, the

manuptuio, man, so I don't believe, if I'm in my book she'd beck, I'm going, ah, it's probably bohom! Besu'll be sure back, and then. Trenuantam that, I'm not there. So, I missed

window obochinchi, to meet my mother's my mother. Aya? if my my dad's I was going to I'm going to

I'm going to be able to last year last year last when I'm where that when I'm

when I said I said I'm a little I'm actually a guy I'm a guy is I'm a hero

for I'm who is a person who people who people and menang meamping

me and manang me and it's He also, even, the other, and the other that's always

a good one that's always between we're having between alpha, so that so that's

so much because if I'm not that, my dad, I always every day,

menager and marries me and make saying to me Oscar, you're different than the other you're

more than more than you're Calimal that do you've been every from I from I'm in from school

from school I'm Rous You're not the first Yeah number two but in but in the

culture Tyeonghua that the one that's the first is that is that

to push to bring the bandera the yeah so that

I'm that I'm I'm I'm I'm I'm after

I'm when I when I SD to Sema I not I don't know he's not

because he's very caras. Because he was under that. He was the profession? What? He is a person who is a person who is very much more than

well. But if we're going to look how we're first from Palembang, he'll, he'd from Palembang to Chukh, without amoe of what

for school, then, put to school because not there's So, it's a super, sopire, soaper, so forth, to be a good worker, then, again,

he's been a good position in Ketauung, sooeper to be a surer of a business, and they're still as a sales manager, then, then, actually, to make usaugh, to make usherst, until he has two-tenths.

But, at the end, the other, not too, not too, back, in the time 98, when, finally, it's a demo that's a demo that's

that's made the business that's going. Because of crisis, the crisis economy global, so. Because the family, the Ibuoy was going to have during 1927. So, at that it was a very

hard for our but in the time I-SMA, ISA, business is a bit a takeoff a little, but it's a bit with with a lot of

big, it's a million-up-out-out-up-out-a-oh- million-a-and, million, and I know it will be a burden I. But, but at the end up here the life, there's one thing I'm not, I'm sorry, I'm not, I'm saying, it's, it's, even, from zero.

At the end up to the end up to payer some of the payer mys. That's what I'm going to bea my dad's very with me. From zero to hero? I'm not going to say, but I'm not saying, but I'm still, I'm still, I think I'm still.

I think I must have to be able to learn. But at least I can give you to my life in the life. In the life, the other things that he's I can give you. If I'm back to the education in the

house, it's just the of the parents in the school, there is not guru that be in the benact of you?

So there, there's one that for me that's very important with education Jesuit. Didication Jesuit is education Colosse. So, if we're in Jakarta, there are Colossal.

Caledius. In fact, there's Coliseuola. All guru and all of themping in Colossel Luiola is, I think. me, I'm nothered. In which, where, the ecosystem of schoolah

is also be made that's very sad, even there's a surrogam. So, if you have people have used have been used if you have we have got to

get used, every day, we're just one one of the sargam, and it's just just about 17 Augustus. And because it's it's a year

because of the time it's a time iraigmian is illaming. I'm one every every one is because seragam is not like putty putte

buty putty is light, In Colosoloyola, he's taught us that, the value is not too important. That's what we're about how we're

to learn, and be creativititist. So, that's, even, even the people who three-besar in Dominico Savio, who are the

people who are very people who are very try-pents. Because, Because, because of the saty-sacres, the creative, the situation, they're not with the idea of the gymnasia. Some of them, even up class,

but, but basically, it's very big. That's a good education Jesuit that's more which, and we're doing that other than academics. But, other than that, academic in there, also, it's very hard. It's very, so. But I'm very, I'm just so. Yeah, loyola, that.

It's not gampang. And there's many, who are people who are who who's success in Indonesia. Yeah. Yeah, right. Not as to get in abut namal. Some of the minister

before them also had from... That's right. And now, yeah, in the old. So, if... Come under Lowy, we, we're doing for... ...with, ushering, with other organizations,

organization. Yeah, which I remember, the one of the other than... We, when that, we were... ...theirdering... ...theirderer... ...wark to pickang...

when I began with my friends, we got to get, not-enhan, because organization is in condition utang, how many 20,000, between 200,000, you know, nearer than 10,000, where we're going to be,

oh, my God, this, what do you have to what in? So, the organization, is perjali, every time you're living, every time you're looking, and then, then, then we've got to be meeting.

I'm still in front of my time. I mean, I said, I said, I'm not able to do this. If we're going to be read the book, but ruggie. Now, when we're one of the ones who's one who's one that's one that's about, this is the price of book, all the percetalue, and system perjolet, and in the year, and in the year,

organization of the school, our career, profit. Wow. At least profit. Profit, but, as soon as I'm going to be able to lose, I'm going to rugger, sir, sir, I'm going to be. In fact, I was it was sure that management, that's very important to bring up to a company.

What you're doing that? What you're doing profitable? The other than before. We have to know cost. The cost of the pay of pre-beye preceptan is to be what? The second, we're the power. It's not the way to beaacquotan the school, but from community.

And, people have to be why they want to buy the magela this. So, we did also make make a concept where we can see if we can send to send a letter. If you were before, if you were in the time Caya Management, it's,

it's also, but there's a factor multiplier. But there's a factor multiplier. That's actually, it's for pay for other than we're happy very, and then we're going to get to the generation of the next this is the money to make

make the next but then the generation periputely just can get a two Now, like, ruggie again, I'm like, okay, then to college. College is in Australia. Why? Why?

This college is a bit of, true, the story of that. My dad's, when I was in the same, business is going to take off, and finally, because, because, I'm able to payay I'm going to

make sure. Maksaer it. Because he's percée, if I'm, I'm going to be a public jale in the family. If I'm not bringing to out of the country, then the other than the other than the other than I'm not going to be out of the country. Because my, the kakka,

that's because of the economy of the community of the year, 1997, persist. It's really hard. And, I'm just a little mrs. I just got to go, almost putto school,

my kakasay. But he, he's got to bea-sysuah. at Biasisua, at unicca, and at Biasiscival, and then he's still school and also as a good as a good as a student. So, we have to be thanks to get with GEN ASEA,

and I'ma vinter-fimper. But he also is a workererous. He's alfa, and then, he's a class. But he, he's, how did you mean of the other? The education A. Yeah.

Basic. The idea of A. He putto-schooling at SM-A-BAT. in Colosia de Brito. But he's the who, what, yeah? Menacken, that's important, because the idea of mysha is also doctor.

And he's... She didn't get to be it, not get to be it, not did not. Not did not. My name's not ever men's up again. So, he then, he then,

he'll take up on the other for my school, that, but it's just for for, in Swastastah in Singapore. School of Swastard in Singapore to be in the Kempic,

at the DEMC, because, when that was Monash University was still want to be work together and make school in Singapore. Now, I'm making make sure that

DEMC Academy, then Mones University is in Singapore. And I, I turned turned the lusinessing the last. Because Monash University then, I'm put up to

Singapore not wafted to make... He's making in Malaysia, right? So, if I take my school where I'm I'm a bit more, I'm a bit of a bit of it. Because when I'm from the lawuously, because when I was in Malaysia, or Australia.

Because when I was university to know I graduate in Australia, but if I don't want to go to Australia, they make ashera-kechle in Singapore. So you're how long in Australia? More in Singapore or in Australia? Because I'm going to be there, we're going to get to get ridgation

in Singapore, but just my, the jasa's, I guesser is in Australia, so if people get my job, and see my life, get rid of my life, get rid of the story of mine, you know what, Kibonash?

We're going to dovet. That's not biology. Because I can't, I can't really, I'm going to gocter, so this is a bit of the paitan of my. After the patented I and my aunt's, because they know I'm not saying,

but the jurusation whatever can't say. But if we talk to doctorate, the doctorate, to, that's to be able to be in Indonesia. If we can't practice. Not even practic and it's too much. That's too much, yeah. If you're being in-lawed-doctor,

so I'm not sure you have to be able. And then, because I have to have given to give up and have to beware-negris. And if I saw in my last time I, when I was M.P. SMA, I was only three. One, the dejovadoan, biology. That's a good one of three of the same. Either level of the city, level of national,

level of poverty, it's always very. Mathematica, I'm okay, but not not too good. But, but sometimes, sometimes, won momba, province in the Joketna. The third, I, I, I, I, I, I, won't the the world of national in computer.

Jolet two. When I was in, I remember, in Canisius, or in where? Or, I, I don't know, in the two computer national. Then I'm making it, I'm going to, I'm going to be it.

In computer. So what's what you are you, not there, because I'm not, because I don't like computer. That's not like computer. I don't use a computer.

I'm just because I won't the the company because I'm going to win in there, to be able to be exposure, no, for the because I like playing games. Okay. Story of the many of the people, if you're going to play game, it's still a computer.

Why? Because, because making game is fun. Yeah, right? But, after we're blessed, you know, making game, that's not fun. But because talent I can't even If I can go to go to go to do you like, I'm doing, I'm doing.

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm going to get IT and AS, I think if I'm if I'm having computer, I'm at the better

in the bidon. So I'm doing technology and information technology and information system. How many years? I've lost, I'm going to cut. Three-ta-old.

Wow. Double-month. So I'm really, because because of school in Singapore. Because of the Angeran. Because of Angeran. Yeah. And then,

monas, then, I'm going to make the major. So, so I'm going to be good. But there's a little

story that's interesting. In the time I'm at school of computer, I'm still, my momohan to my wife if I'm going to India,

I think to go to doctoran. What I'm going to do with people, I'm taking, My face, my face, it's just, because he's, he's not, for the law for my own for the line of my

I'm sorry. So, he's stressed. So, after I'm going to, I thought, no, no, I said, I'm going to get, I'm going to get back to Singapore again. Yeah.

Because, gos-nose, too, three-torn in Singapore to beaigning. I'm going to bea-law. Because, actually, I mean, in mind, I'm getting paid, so I always buy in Newmih,

I always bought Indomie. Indomia d'us d'usan. Oh, then, then, before, now, now, now, now, now, now, yeah, now, I've got, I've got, indom-dus-dusan,

and it's always I'm on-stop, like, that's always I'm gonna russed, yeah, I'm gonna be able to be back in a month, two minutes. Because, one-d-d-s-khan, but, you know, hobby is? What's the hobby?

The clahsha. Yeah. Yeah. But I play chatur, and I'm doing, or whatever I'm about I'm about I'm doing? Man chatur, ma'is, now?

Katanahang, with the other people, and now, now, it's got to be in the online, so, we play in the same, so. So, I used to play chatur, like, fun, and... I was a hobby, but I stopped, maybe, um, about 12-a-year-old. That's, I'm the other than I'm about

umur-a-old, but I was just a lot of time because I've done to learn from 2-town. And one of the other thing that's that's interesting, because chatur is a binding between my and my see. He's the room man, he made chatur.

He was, he taught me to play chatur, when I could go to here, this, get to here, then, then when he went to he went to me in chatur. And,

because he actually just, the one of the first of my mother, I mean, how much? First time, when won the parents? Two, SD, yeah? Not bad.

But, but... But, but... ...butturb is also pending, between my wife'sa. Because, A. Chaun, the chatur is very good, so good enough for sure. ...same up to the Ayeshae,

I can't I can't I can't can't. So, so... Can you? Can't, if he's school? Yeah. So, AISI is very people

who had to be in front school with. AISA was very not had got to have good to runnugn to runnugn to school.

Because, when he didn't can't contact the family in Palembank. And he, the condition is he rarie.

So, he ralus SMP, ran to the Kulau, Jawa, and with the with the friend who came,

he could, he just has a little diner, and from the company, and so maybe the cost of,

the payy-y-y-schooling, not. Not. Maybe the people are adventurous too, because, because, maybe, the problem,

it's a lot of he then, make a bit a comment that makes a challenge for me. The comment is that,

because he's too, he's always gagged. He said, he said, you don't be too And he's not really,

and we're from the family of the same, you don't be able to beaumeration or to be a lot of or to be a lot of, because it's not

difficult. And, because she's not want to get to the, because Aesai is a type that's

with a lot with more if you're if they're what the ability ASEA, they'll give a chance,

but 200% but 200% So, sometimes I'm, I'm sometimes I'm really because pressure of the pressure because of the pressure of big too because at the same when you're making

someone with a lot of being, making, and demanding. So, so if you're talking, yeah, what I'm,

because I'm, my say, my life my, humonginging, but at the time I'm trying when we're trying to meet satur-

I can feel like more so much more chiro. And, the ajarin'briot that that's, because he's very much and very much, and I'm not going to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to, if I say that, if I'm not going to say that

not, I must have to be able to say to that if that's maybe. So, I'm going to say that that we're not maybe being a kaiya, we're not maybe to be common, we're not we're not making, what, yeah,

when it's from zero, when the time of the time, that's from, from the dungal, so, they're going to be from the time to have beenckon, that's just been able

and you don't be able to make make ushousa from from 0, because that it's not It's not possible, because he. But because of the chintangely, he gave the nassiat. And then I'm going to say, I'm going to say,

I'm going to be able, what? So, then I'm going to focus on business. I want to be able to make a business. Before we go to business, idol of the men chatur, you're saying, this one thing that's interesting, about character I.

I was a type that that's a type that's a type that's who's a bit of a bit of a person who's people who are, so if I'm asking with me,

whether I like soccer, or I like basketball, I like play basketball, but I'm not type that's that make end up club any other.

Even the... I like... I like the I like something that's in the in the realm, not even, not even. So, if I'm just,

I'm saying, this, I think, sometimes, all of people, manned football, like, I'm calling my son, I'm calling my son, oh, this is from Michael Owen, yeah? Yeah. Now, I just said, oh,

there's a manned some of the footballer Maker Owen. But, but although, Michael Owen is very well, people in the world, right, right, I actually, I just, I just know, after the name,

the certificate of the last, I was jaded. Yeah. Wow. So, if you're talking, idyllar I'm a player, my dad's my. Okay. Because,

from my eyesay, I'm not too, not too, uh, talk about the talk about and for me, and for me, mya-sha-sha-sha-sha-tour-be-belung-pern't-ha-call-cathed. Gifted.

Yeah. Gifted. Yeah. GIF-it it. We're about business. and then, what you're before you've done,

before you've done, what you've done? So, in 2007, when I was lulled from school, I'm thinking to want to be business, but I also had to be able to be able,

but I'm not up model, I'm not at a lot, I'm not at the energy, and I, I had, I, I, I, I have had been able to work in Singapore. Makes sense. Because he makes sense.

Yeah, because he's made up ushaw that's very to work. To work a very hard from zero that's not possible. And if you're working in Singapore, like a spooku,

so I have a spooko who's from now. That's a good life is a bigia. You're minimal. Strabil. Then, if you're in Singapore, you're all the time is being millionaire. And,

all of Singapore, millioner, yeah? Because asset property, yeah. But, but not millioner that who's a goodener that's a gooder because the way of the life is not much.

Then I said, I'm doing I work, but I'm not going to be a great time. But at the end up work for the work and I'm going to be a work in a place of the IT that local in Singapore. Now, at that I'm going to meet the other of my guru's here who's going to have my life.

When I was working there, He's name Alex. Alex. Because for me, the name Alex is a name that's always be an important for me. Yeah. Nama I'm not Alex.

The name is alex. The people? Yeah, she Alex, he, he's, he, the time, the time, long-man-man-and-and-you-

and, what, he, he's actually, a person is a, like, a good, He made up if you're more than in the room

and more of the restriads. And they made sure that many things. Many things. But irony, yeah, I'm just on the place that, three-bulon. I just can't even three months.

Because, because, I'm not just skillful for work there. Wow. Even if we're in double major from Monash in three years. This is the different, I think, I think, is in a business in a business in a small. If we're working in a business,

we're just to be able to be able to control certain skills. But when we're working in business in small, we need to know everything. Everything. All right, the team was, at that, just 10 people, just 10, then we handle tender in Singapore

for Singapore prison Rufflese medical and then it's quite there's stuff for tires and so much. Now, three years,

I've made big a messer in the business. I've made a carcalfant. Now, boss that then came to say,

he's having with me, well, we're not can't continue. That's the person.

The one of The President. The Alex, He's going to tell me that if a director, that's a lot of when they're going to be an end-earned-enhaned.

If he's a bag of the recruits, he's also a little bit more than he's going to let go. After I three months, I was in after I've got to have no money, I'm then, I'm going to put uska I'm what I'm going to do you,

I'm going to what I'm going to remember my mimpies I, I actually, I'm more more than the business, yeah, than the other than the other work. Then I'm

back to Semarang. Now, if I came to come to say to my dad's say when I was to say, I'm, ah, what,

what, I'm, I'm going to business Asia in the because I have a dream to be doing to do

so much more than I, I can't say to tell you to I know I had to becatsed. I know I'm a good well, I said I'm getting I'm afraid that he's more broken heart,

then with model the $5 million, that was that, I'm going to have an ushawyerhouse my first. Showhouse part of my We don't want to pay sewa-tempat,

not sancup going to pay whatever, because it's just $5, can, ma'am. I have to think how it with $5,000 to do that. Then I bagged back to

I give the money. I gave it. I think of $1,000 to $1,000 to do with the economy. The other than I use money. I'm using Warnet. Because when it was not jammer to walking space, right? If I, $2.00, I pay a place, I'm not not much to pay a place like what. Because if we want to go to a warehouse, programmer, there's a place that's a place that's proper, has to be a computer, and so many. If I buy a computer, then, it's a cost of my $2.00. I said. So, I

seewe $2,000 for four places to work net. I payer this I have to be able to, I have to pay up to $4 $7,000, for four courses. I said, people are beingung, because

there's no one person who's like that, in Warnet, sew, to $1 to $1 to $1st, I'm 6 o'clock. I said, I've said. I think, $4. This is always for me, yeah. Untoenna, I said. Then 2,000 of the other than 2,000

I use for the word of RELMAN, to find career-one. This, maybe, a bit of a bit of a bit of the person that I interviewed that was, we're making can't make a can't-a-tort,

but because the can'ter yet, we're doing, but we're doing it in Barnett, yeah. And because team that I see people who are young muda-bud, he, he, he, percived to me.

Mood-ud-d-20-an? B-12-an, um, 12-an, 10-1, 10-hs, 10-hs and the team that I was the first one of the unicah. Luson, all of them. Wow. So, why can't want?

Because I'm, maybe I'm persuasive, yeah? Maybe I'm trying to, persuasive. Then they're percival. Then they're percied my wife, I'm after I had a tenager, there's enough capable, there's a couple

capable, that I was, What I'm doing after that is, without I'm all over, I contact Alex, boss of my, I'm going to contact Alex. I'm going to ask you, I said, I'm going to ask you, I said boss. Alex, we're going to name, if in the country, Alex, I know if I know if I'm going to be a lot.

Now I have a proffer, I've given photo. I can, right, photo is, there's computer, there, there team, this is the law of all right, all in Semarang. How, if we're just as much, I know I've been doing a lot of wronged but how you can't

make sure you guys project-project in Oathouse to us? Then, she Alex thought, oh, yeah, why not, yeah, if you're gonna if you're paying minimal gage $3,000

for one programmer, in the place I just paid just $500. $500,000 is that's been made for my $100,000, 100 to $100,000, because I said,

he's $100,000, $1,200, this is for sewa-tempat, what, like, so Alex, I believe. Then, he, he's percikhan to me, so much of my project. So, that's where I was betting that, I was

that I won't, you, ma'am. My job my jutea, maybe, yeah, kind of, so. So, so.

How much, we're together time, time, but the other, again, again, there's a irony, after half a 1-a-year-shawn,

like I was a lot of gagged. I'm not going to go ahead. I'm going to go ahead. I was going to home. My dad's my mom. At one point, he had one one thing that, he said,

you can just just like this, what? What are the kind of like this? Calumat. I'm not perisced, but I'm going to

not good enough. Not good enough. Not good enough. enough, percuma, siassian. Then, I'm jankle, I ribbed with my S.

I'm quite hot. I'm sorry. I'm gonna'clock CLEAS again. Alex, now I've got been better than that I've done

done to do you. How much if I'm back with you? But you don't care with the business outstossing this.

Because I have already manager who can't manage it. Then, Then the Alex said, "'Mama my husbanda,

"'but, "'but why should I have "'Mereem to receive you? "'Can we have "'try we have seen with "'but I know, Alex, "'if you are very sibu. "'I think, if I'm

"'if I can't give you "'and if we can't "'if we can bet just, "'I said with him, "'we can't make bed "'for one first, "'you don't per-gauge "'sperty to payee-one.

"'You're just about... "'You're just about... "'Fan hundred dollars. You're not even if you're not. But, but you'll give you to my money. But, you know, that's where you're not. That's the money.

That's not for me to buy. But, Alex, if you're not if you're going to be happy with me for me the first, you know, you'll pay for mehundred. And then Alex, I'm thinking, okay, like, why not?

He wants to see what? Now, then I said to what I said to say, hey, Alex, sorry. But I don't have been doing. be up, yeah? Can't be

Bandung, yeah? Or, so much. There's always there's always, there's, there's, there's, right,

just, just run, right, right, and then I'm like, and I, and I said, I'm going to

I'm going to the other other one manager. Now, when I'm working, that one month,

the month, Because, it's the room that I mean, they're given to give a room, but, but the boss, the Alice, is very creative, like, he's a work, he said, he said, he said Warrugo, he said, there's just that, he said, and I'm thinking, like,

this, not, I'm thinking, this, I'm thinking, but I'm gonna, yeah, so, okay, I'm at this, okay, I'm at here, the place, there's place, so I'm sitting,

so I'm at my country, but, but, no, there, this, this, this, this is there's a place thing, right? You know, buy casuer, said they're going to buy casuer, because he said, but I'm not sure. But if you're nother, can't. These two-dwaynecerned.

The two-a-lawing-law, man. I'm going to IKEA. At Ikea, per se, quite a lot of course. It's quite a while, for you know. If I buy mattress that little, tau-tipis. Wow, I'm, can't beck. Oh, yeah, to Kerfurt. I got to Kerfurt.

I go to Kerfour. So, I've got me with cassoor-angin. Gas-angin, the gas, to shepherds, and I see, wow, this is quite a bit more, it's just a bit more, it's just a man. I'm going to be able to be able to be in the first in the same.

But, it's after two weeks, I'm going to because if you're getting ridden, if it's a little, goyang-coing. After two weeks, Alex, he said with me, he said with me, she said, wow, if you're like this, you can't get sick. You know, we're like Ikeke just, we buy casur for you.

B'Bellin'am. Oh, I'm happy. He bought my cash for my last month. We're about $8,000,000. I'm happy for you. She's happy for me. He's one of a power of mine that, she's, and then,

he said, this we're going to we're going to get your every month. I think, wow, that's going to be, maybe the coster is more. How long this, this, this,

this before you're in the one year. Yeah, it's a year. So I'm in time from 2010 I'm taking

from the position that I'm in in in nine, nine, I'm under the client. That's the experience

for people. I handle client, I'm closing for doing for him for the then, even,

because the company in Singapore, Do everything, sir. So I'm doing like he, so he's director. Even the pay, pay, pay, and, and as well, I'm handling with the same thing, that's the same thing,

that's one of the other one in Indonesia who's to be in the penjara but not because of the penjada, because setup system in there. But, actually, Alex, this, ending is a bit more good because he then, then, she's going to meditation.

Fibu meditati at the level that's more the level of the other than the same. He snapped. He snapped. As soon as a human sacchargeva. Sorry. Sorry. I met him him.

At the last, the other one of the happen that's the most mending for mean when he's derty to the massucan or he looked. He's kind of schizophrenia. He's scovina. There's scovina. There's soul of jihad,

he's going to go to run to the crammernan, then, and I'm also who are people who are people who are. Because in the complex of my own men, there, she's coming to run, with a cell phone, and I'm going to come in front of,

because I'm afraid he's in at all right. You're at home? The last, he's out, they're at work in the house, then, then, partner that one other,

again, alivisiness. But I have a new partner's one other guy, not too good. Not too good. I'm not too much. I'm not too. It's not really.

That's, it's, made impact for my life. Your, your, your, your, and the process

life here is indodex. Yeah. So, the year, I'm going to back to Jakarta. I'm going to

I still still still handle business outsourcing that. Just I'm not that's going to be like that's going to be, for the energy IT. Then I've got to come back a warehouse in Indonesia. We handle some motivator

to know in Indonesia, I can't even I can't even if you can't. Just now followers are all judean, and have all all, that we're from behind from there. That's from there. We're starting from that we're also developing the system in the

business, we're making some of the media, and so many of it. But in 2012, then partner my, William Sutanto, tell us he said, oh, there's a matter, there's a matter of money, this, he said he, nother, nother, which is different

than before the before me. Right, Williami, he knew, I mean, when I was in, you know, when I'm hit up with trading, so because of the money that's, I was active trading forex. Trading forrex, and other and so many, he said to me, this is a system matto-wong-baru who is decentralized.

Canal William from where? This is interesting, too, if the story, William. So, William, and me, is one SMA. But we don't know. We know, not? Because William, Adk Class I. One thinghaten? No, William Adi Class. She William Adi Class, and I'm a kakak class.

Who, who knows William, who, rather, adi's my. When I was going to bring in the work before I came back with Alex, William, that was never contact I. He was looking for server. I'd try server, and I was going to sell server.

Then, William, became client I just we've never got to meet. We don't ever get to come up until 2010. In 2010, when I came back to Jakarta, because I crossed with partner with the ASE-R-Tex. And I'm not sure I'm doing

for making a small, for a small, I contact William. Will, we'll, we're partnering with you. I have, sorry, kind of, I'm not like that. I'm going to Jakarta, I want to focus focus to make usher in Jakarta. Then, she William

said, oh, he's not to make Sobelhaus. And then, we're talking, we're talking, we're talking, oh, we're partnering just. Then we're just we're from where school

and the other than, as a particular, we just got to go, we're one school first. Now, in 2010 that I got to meet William, first

time. We've met about a time in Karawachi. Okay. And I'm actually I'm still trying to see what I'm not know. I'm like, like, up.

Hello, my friends, thank you, should be a friend Stia Endgame. Check release the new from Future Narrator's

merchandise collection and support our mission to find ideas the idea from the narrator and other narrator,

the main. Link Pemassanan are in description. Now back to the show. Then, about about money.

Now, in 2010, I was with with him with him with him 2012, he had the story about the money that's about the blockchain, decentralization. In the year, the end of the blockchain, not there, so we're only

the decentrialsation. Because, actually, the term, blockchain, can be really ever there, in the time 2015. Now, when we're talking about

that, then William convinced me, that Bitcoin is something that's special even if at the first I'm sorry

because I'm because my own because I'm having been around I'm having when I'm going to I'm going to

I'm going to I'm going to there's money there liberty resource there money bookers and other

money this all money this only paypal did tutupe by FBI because because

all the everyone who with international money, if he had lesset a little, the FBI will still be able to turn hand, not up. So, the IGURR can, ultimately, it's shut.

The money booker, he's still in, but just for a portion that's more small. PayPal, because he has done to do you with the license FSA that's good, he doesn't

run. Because it's more to US, than the global at that at that. Now, I said with him, if money international, what is what maybe, if decentralization? Because, at that, I'm still

think, like, people of the people who, that system software, there's a server, that's always the central. But just true, because of the skepticism I was at that, it was, it made I know why people skeptic when I was skeptic when I first said what that Bitcoin. Yeah, in 2013,

after that William made block about what is Bitcoin, he became Bitcoin evangelist, making block and and so again, he tried to sell

to buy Bitcoin in a scale. So, he's the first first time when the money? She William. She William

2012. 12. And I? I'm not. I'm in 2013. So, so, when William

bought, the price is still debuts 100,000 $1,000. If I, was in scale, still deba, But the process is one-torn,

until you're first time to buy. Right, a stephism is very because I'm, because I, this, I'm having, it's a lot of, made me, it's, made some of the other people

from the FBI, right, it's very negative, ma'am. What's the different Bitcoin with E-Money? Then, when I'm going to I was I was sure with Bitcoin that. When I saw the business William, he made block,

he'd buy Bitcoin. I think that's very interesting. The system of the decentralized is very different with Iman that I'd per-pirked-one and then William William went back to China.

Three days before, he'd want to come back to China because he wanted about Bitcoin. He'd want to galley more than Bitcoin. He'd want to galley I said with him, I want to be we're going to go to China.

Because China? Because, that, Bitcoin just had in two countries. One US, one China. U.S. is the base there are Pongox and Coinbase. In China, there are BTC China. Then, also there, what I mean,

when hobby, yeah. When the hobby, it was just made. Now, I said with William, we're to China, we're going to. Then I'm just brus, bring ticket, and get to goos, and then to go ahead, to Guangzhou.

In Guangzhou, that's then I said with William, like I'm attracted to this this. So I'm a partner you, and I'm a partner you, we're coming with this this this is, I believe if this is this we're

going to be number one in Indonesia. I will be able to as maximally to execute your idea to do you, much more than, yeah. Then, maybe because I'm persuasive,

yeah, Ma'am said, okay, we'll just. Okay, okay, we'll try just. Yeah. Then, in 2013 to 2014, in the a while, I said to do

make software the software like, like, money changer. Yeah. Duh. Duh. Like money changer,

back. Bitcoin. Dot code daddy, we're like money changer. We're nottendure. We're notting quantity of what, the value,

the value of the value of the price. I'm looking, this is a bit of a lot of because if we have been just to be able to sell, but if we can't help to sell people

other than more much. So, so that's the system Bitcoin. or Intodak then, then, it's the system with order-book.

We're making a bank of transaction. So, that February 2014, in February 2014, that's then then, Bidcoiddeaddy, or Introdux, Clowns. Interesting. And then,

so, it's been to Bali, Yeah, because? When? At first, we saw the beginning Bitcoin. Bitcoin. But it's not too biguebloodooad is good. But, but it's not too big bang significant.

We've seen the community the bestine is there in Bali. Because the expart in there is going to make Bitcoin. So, then I and William

make sure, we have to goli. We have to try to make Bitcoin Island. It's probably Bali as Bitcoin Island.

Now, we're going to Bali, we know-Know-Know- hotel, there's been many hotel who's got

money to payers-boh- when that. Restaurant also took-A-lid. And we We've made a can't do the end of Kuta, that's, that's a small, that's where there's ATN, bitcoin

people who are the same, four times three, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, four, five, and there's car amadey. That's for case for me, because caramadi is in the back, with the line-lots, we're giving the room and at the end.

In-baran, in Bali? In Kuta. In Kooter. In Kooter, right, there, there's, there, We're going to be in Karamandhi that, in Karamandi, that's always there's there's always that I'm afraid

with the Kewa. I was a hobby of a cowie but every time I'm going to see to see that. So I always get with the time? This is in 2015? 2015.

One of the other the other than Indodak's with prosaerousan startup the big now is we're bootstrapped. We're bootstrapped. All the way,

from from from from We must make sure that business is to have to work in the foundation. Business is not about to find out of the investor, but business is about how to how to make make sure it's just for operational.

So, that we're just to be able to... Yeah, like the experience when you're in the joling manjala. Right, ma'am. If we're when we're doing magia, just from school, it's maybe. But it's not business. Yeah.

Now, then, if we talk Indodex, the canton we don't get in the way, we're not really, wow, at the awa, because we're just as well as we're with portion of our power of our own. How many people? And we're William. Yeah, and two other than,

in the can'tor 20 meters, in 2015. So, then, what, we're the name, we, we're at Caled at Bali. You're at the gajee, we're at the gage of us. We're at $8,000. Per-oh-oh-lian.

Two people other, how do you? $4,000 and $5,000. We still remember, team that's the first time with us, the one of the team the best team that we've ever got. Biage operational, per year, or per month?

Per-bulan, I'm a little bit but we're not, not up to 100, yeah, about 10,000. 10-hundred. Yes. Yes. Yes.

Then, fee and the charge, that's that's, it's just for, more than... Correct. But, more than we're

doing operation, it's been up on or, or mungue, a month, another one of another thing about Indotax, is

our business our company, yeah, wow. If, if, They said, burning, until the year 5,

if we're not, so we're not, so we're at the book first, we're profiting. So, until now, that's, we're, quite good, yeah. Yeah, no way sure to be in the story. But, but growth-nege-from-from-from-up-secregan?

Group our time, 100s and-1-1% or 2,000-1-3-1? If we're not, from the sum of caravansia, it's just, too, 2, 3-care-1. Now, indododdard-sendary-hand. company Oskarewam. Then, as far as revenue

inundas, it's pretty, Indutarchs, is, quite as far as PTT-PK. And, where? Where? At this, in Indudadx, we have

had a can't at MCC Sudhirman. So, in the Jalen, Utama, then we're like at the time at Debt, in the location public,

house-asly. This is location This location that we see has had a real heritage. Because this, it was a person of an ombling, ummuley usyahed from there. So we're spirit we want to

menel him. Yeah, that's, we also have a can'tor in Seminia, in Bali. Then we also have a can't. Oh, weinded from Goethe. We're going to get some of the duet. You've got not four times five,

We've got not used the other, we've got to go to RUCO. We're two Rucco. We're going to have car amadee that there's no one. And where? Where's where? We're like to open chabeng in a few places, so, okay, I'm going to cupas, more down, this.

Ather, this, Bitcoin and crypto-cripto-lain, yeah, aggat-a-gaping correction. What, is, what, is the macroe? If I, I'm in my opinion, because we've had seen the cycles of Bitcoin in 2013, if we're looking what's what in 2013, it's the value

the high Bitcoin from 2009 is the first time in 2013. Because it's because Bitcoin, first time, it's 1,000 dollars. So, what's interesting about launching in the DDox, when we're launching, it's, with the crash of Bitcoin. Because in 2013, it was a $1,000,000. in 2014, Bitcoin is to $3,000.

It's down almost 70% to final it, down 80%. Yeah. The only correction is 80%. Correctioninging 80%. Then if we're talking about 2017, that Bitcoin, first time, $250 million,

before, then, then, to the price $30,000. Now, if we talked to 2020, in 2020, to $2,000, it's the Bitcoin first time that's $850,000. That's that's true.

80% 20% to be 12,000, 14,000. So, this is a natural. Because if we're talking historical data, beulang.

That's if. If. And what? What are variable macro, other history.

If variable that's that's important for people. Variable that is the problem that's the cost of

inflation in US. The central bank is going to make a suco in the bank central is very effective. Because we

have to if we talk with Bitcoin, it's per day with the market with stock. Where liquidity from the US

dollar is very much not be a very. And, the fact, the fact made up the amount of the amount of the thing is that it would have because of liquidity from the US dollar that I'm buying crypto,

it's a very drastic. This is what I think in almost the market of sport at this Okay, the intinion that, if that's

getting more, because the quatirance about the concerns about inflation is that's been a certain to the point of for prospect to the recovery. And there's factor

two that we have we have to talk about we're talking about we have to capitalization, Bitcoin is still making 30 to 50% if we're

if we talk about technical, Bitcoin is being a money to make people, At the amount of supply, set up four time in 2013, and 2017, and in 2020.

Why, when that was at the haeha and end up to that? Because all-time heavy, because it's because of all-time having to be putong a half-a-pocket. Prosses perforced perfor-pity from bitcoin that's the part of the upon the supply it, made more than the supply. Manker, it's been a clonjacking hard game. when, when,

when it's the adjustment where demand and supply to be included, at that people are people are that people that's

why it's why it's every year time. I've been many many think,

what, yeah, theory or the that portfolio manager or or the

data that, need to be used class asset that's new. Because not can't be investasic can in the same real estate just or Ferrari. Yeah, right?

Now, this Bitcoin or crypto, this is an alternative that, if I'm maybe, it's been being being puttimbang and not stop to be pertimanked

by the people because the important, the important, and not many correlations between Bitcoin or

crypto with class class asset line. Now, the more there's no correlation, it's more more than

diversification, or hedging. I'm saying with my way, but I'm sorry, but I also there's a little bit

not-stit- because one thing, if it's in 2017 until 2019, until 2019, that's right.

Because there there's there's correlation between the pergaretka of the crypto with the other. But if we see what happened in 2020 to the year 2020, correlation

of the current the market index of the technology with crypto is very in in inlingan. This is that maybe maybe question for

the investors for them to get the correlations why it's this is a ringan. This is because of the need for liquidity.

That's what's going to correlations, between one class and class line. Yeah, right? But I believe that, if it's only if the liquidity is that's been relaxation again, correlations will be noon.

And that will make make a scenario that's new or as what we've seen what we've in the history for the recovery, Bitcoin, or crypto, and, and, and other, but what I want to ask, the structural is what,

what's, what's making crypto that's not going to in the next day? So, if we talk about crypto, yeah? Crypto is one of the asset class that's very interesting. I was spanned with with our Paquita because if we talked about asset commodity,

like, emas, silver, and so again, They have got a good good in industry. Now, if we talk about Bitcoin, or Ethereum, this is one of commodity that's that's a good quality of the different. Maybe there are many people who are trading Bitcoin,

many of trading Ethereum, but not many who know function from Bitcoin and Ethereum this and this is actually from Bitcoin and Ethereum this actually is there is a good with a function from the blockchain as a process of the

process of the chatatatine, the process of the chatatine, then the same, and then, because there's a one function there's a demand natural, the demand that's from the people.

When there's a point of the price, this, this, you know, when you're making demand natural, it's tendrum,

that's at a price of more. So, if you're talking, is it, if it's going to turn to the $0? Orpac, or is it to be the higher

$1,000? It's almost impossible, because the first, supply from the Bitcoin and Atrium and the algorithm for limited, 21,000,

because of the $21,000. If we're talking, Bitcoin, that means That means that's the supply from Bitcoin, it's just $21 trillion. And for a couple of people, it's a number of people, it's a value that's very small,

to deborong. So, because supply that's very much, it's not, because there's function demand-in-ya, there function of the industry-in-asset class of class-classes, then there's function for their creditee-in-law-dits-old-good-old-old-second. If the value is very drastic, let's get a little more much more, for them to make up to make

from the value of this. This is from 21,000, how are what are being? At least 1,000,000,000? 18,000. 3,000. This is, this is about 2040. It will be able to end up to 21,

that's about 21, that, really, about 2040. But, sorry. But, actually, not really because we have to be one thing. At the time we're going to transfer from one wallet to wallet line, at the time I, Oscar,

I'm giving him to give him to say, I'm going to give him, if I'm going to sender to, it's a buyer transfer. There's a biotransfering that's not an industry, but what's the process penerbitten from the Bitcoin that's

back, which are the miners Bitcoin. So, at the end of the infrastructure of Bitcoin this, supply that will always have. From where? From the via transfer that's the given that? So it's in 2004, if all of it's been there's been there, there's a number of it,

right? From the via transfer? From the time? So if people ask, after 2040, minor will be lent? not even, not. Because they're going to reprobate the transfer. Right, right 6.25 Bitcoin per 10 minute.

From 6.25 Bitcoin per 10 minute, actually, at least, at least, at least, at least, it's actually, there are $7.25 Bitcoin per 10 minutes. So there's 7.25 Bitcoin per 10 minutes. And then, it's more long, with the system Bitcoin, more than for the other than for the

miners will beaverturement with a number with a number that's pretty much of the amount of from the price of the price of it. If we look at emas, yeah, who've already excess over a thousand years, every time there's geolok, fluctuasiness, it, 2-4%.

If Bitcoin, you've got to bea-bless blas-an-tawn, existensiness, every time there geolak, it fluctuasion is 80%. This is in a lot of logic, yeah. We can't anticipate

the pastime, where fluctuasion 80% it's, it's, it's, it's more than becoming a problem. And, the liquidity is more important. Yeah, liquidity

and, if I'm notheritism, and, if, in-ruth-say-up people that's about something that's that's that's being

be pertangue can. Yeah, right? But if if you're the people of the system that's centralistic that's not

be partangue to be partang-javut. Justru, they want to be centralization, it will be disruptive. Yeah, right? With anything

that's decentralized. Now, the question of structural is, or even, observation, this kind of to the people who still will still be

with system that decentralized, can. If we talk about peniaman of emas and bitcoin and the principle decentralization is so, because the process the process of the

making of the same as much, so if we talked when we talked about because of the emas, because the reason is because of the

because of the people are people that's about because everyone's people that's not just about emacs that's not being because of the laborious why the libertarian

at all right because Bitcoin didn't be made by any other and people people who are people who not be controlled

or one of a person and someone that's about me saying about me actually the real intrinsic of bitcoin is

to what is to know the interest from We need to know how much the process of the ira intrinsic from the emas. Lirre intrinsic from the emas, it's because there's a biosephoration for every ounce of the amount.

Bitcoin is also. So, for every one bitcoin that's in the massarca, it's the price of the exploration for every one bitcoin that's in chitaka. Because we have to know, the process of the creation of bitcoin is same with the newstrik, to be a Bitcoin.

Because total, from the jarringan miner Bitcoin this is around 1303 terawatt hours, total of the blockchain. So, so 135 terawatt hours, this can be said is, is, per hour, per hour, per jam. 130 terawatt? 135.

For the picture for audience, in Indonesia, it's about 256 terawatt hours. Restrict that's the use of Indonesia. So, if you're talking about how big restricts that's the idea of Bitcoin, it's the second restrict that's in the Indonesia. Same with Argentina, if not

that's the same that's people say that it's a lot of this issue global. Concern, like. So... The gap-a-pani how to the different, from the

energy? If we talk about Bitcoin, it's a bit more Because process from the Bia Exploration is that that's what's on the price of Bitcoin. And because this decentralization, the miners have got to voting. So if we're talking,

when blockchain is to be able to be a system POS or system that's without software that emmacken energy-besar like this? At the time the miners the 80% the system from P-O-W to POS. But when we talk Bitcoin, the miners, one of the ones have benefited

quite a bit more. Maybe not to POS? If Bitcoin, I think, it's very hard. Because the miners, not going to be insinthewy. This, maybe, like erroneous from Bitcoin, with all the concept of libertarian, ternet, they've been using energy that's very. But the pembellaan ditty over the people of the people,

the system of willing of our first, the principle from the energy that's the energy that's if we're being using by the

drugan or anything like and we're talking, we're talking system efficiency from the of the penimpanan bitcoin,

then the energy that's in means that it's not can't be put to forcekan. And it is relatively

less less because this is system matac-uang global. If we compare

with We're not even perban, we can compete with system central and then as well as in the world, it's more than this. Not to beleongue by the situation geopolitic that's now. This, can, ibarat-cata global order of the world,

this iser, that's the bipolar, then to unipolar, and now multipolar. So, the world this multipolar, the more people are aggaping, and, and, the more people

people who's trying something that's not need to be able to be able to whatever, butasan,

batasan. So, so much the important to do not be desentralization, that's been in fact,

to happen issue, where emas is one of one is one one that will be considered again.

But emas can have many challenges, and the government of the world has been to try to standardization of the gold is not.

Not be able to be able. Because the sum of it is too limited. It's not much. Not much. Because the money that's better it's more than the amount than the pot of emas that's got to comepulcan

and it's going to come up. It's too too little. So, if we talk about it, concept from the blockchine is one that makes sense, and if we talk about ego ego, each of the country, because of the people, can't make up the

money's of the money, because why Bitcoin is one because Bitcoin is one that's one that's one that's not controlled by the country. Yeah, right. Not there's a godemulatant or not subjugated or not

subject to the doleaton. Now, this, this is, there there's a particular, pennecaten one other, penedatation philosoph, in which if we're looking that is something that's

something that can travel over time, but it's difficult to travel over space, because it's hard, right? But if you're going to be more than to travel over space, but, but, well, you can, travel over time.

Yeah, right? Because there devaluation, there depreciation, there inflation, there's any, if two-due it's at the point intersection is maybe be put in view with existence of crypto.

Yeah. So, that's the same spirit of the director marketing of crypto, but I try to analyze just and I never jolt buy crypto, but I try to learn the concept. If I was the philosophy, is better, so I've never, so I've done on a project of little.

So this is done in Instagram, the website at Oscar Dermann. I, the experience of my, I, to make up to make $30 million. $10 million, I'll take up to-Noy, $10 million I'll take on the money, $10 million I'll take of gold, $10 million, I'll change of Bitcoin.

When we were not going to be a sum of money, that it's a certain amount of like we've got to buy five-attas finance here. And the money is, like, if we're talking about it, if we're talking about it, if we're about, if we're a lot of people.

The second, when we took emas, I think emas, I'm not quite a bit of a little, yeah. But if emas, if it's a barred, it's really bad for that, it's very hard, yeah. Yeah, 10 kilo. But if we talk crypto, when we took up 10 million, it's just a disimede in one USB. Yeah, that's what I suppose with Baja,

if we talk about over space, over time, actually, crypto, we make sense, you know. Yeah. If we're like, if we talk about the conditions of the durer. security and it was in the United in 2015. When we talked of the crisis Korea-Utara and the Southan, the moment. So, because of the crisis Korea-Uttar,

and then, and, like, so again, that's the crisis, always hargare net drastic. Because when, when it's the crisis that's quite gawat, at the traders that, the people who know who know crypto, they will have to uncutarchant

on the asset in the crypto. Because that's one of the only way to make amazette with much, and with respect, and not parricable. Right. If we're if we're tucker with emas,

that's bowing the amount of money. And, maybe more risk, than we're not getting away. If we're lading... If we're not... If we're not, if you're not... If you're up for a rupee, I think, probably more much.

Yeah, more money. To buy a room with... ...tunay rupee, yeah. ...usat, and... ...and, not we can't be able, ...and we're up PAPAT, right. But, this is... ...and...

...and... I also, I also, that, say, the process of prolongingerant quantitative or pencatacan the money that's done by the next this is a little, but it's not a lot

but not going to stop. Because it's not new, because we're doing for inflation, what, if we're not, not, not, it's just real for the economic, global.

Yeah. Now, what's, for the for the of the importance of the people, what's what is to do with the world, and what what is done by policy makers, so they're more mhmami. This, is, it's a regulated industry, it's a regulated industry,

the I mean, has had from the government and everything. But what, is, basic, basic, that's what's that's for for the important to the point for the

question about the crypto yeah regulation that's right regulation that really because

this is already one sector which is a sector power so that there's there's

there's there's there but there but there but there still there SRO

that bursa perjanka that bursa borgues which is sifted makehousy the company because

Because if we talk industry that can't even just be awashy by regulators from Papati, then not will be really to be awashy

pertagangangann. Because if not the way it's not too not quite. I'm not going to make effect it that's about.

Because, Cenk, perputarian money is quite big. This is a because the smangat crypto is

to be to be accumodation, aspirationalization, right? That's why it is it must bebunkus

with the exchange like the past model or what that's back. It's back back to centralization. Because,

why crypto is not really decentralization? Because our money our money is still really digital.

If we we're talking about exchange yeah. Exchange, that's the point is we're

we're we're decentralized with the in the money fiat that centralized. At the same of the time we need to be able to the regulation,

the regulation. Because, because all of the centralization that's that will be a badahe. Because we need to be awashy by SRO that's also

the desentralization that's been by the industry also. So, wazit it's, not be awash by a business

the number of the same. Because if a business with a bankerser that's not really, what's the industry that's not going to not fair. Like the market model. Yeah, that's right. That's been by emittance.

Right. Right. By many, many of the other people. So if we talk about crypto, yeah, it's ironic is the essay is centralization. But the ester of centralization,

So if it's if you're doing by the asset, by the business and by the same way, and it's by BAPD, it will be a good. Because, this is the perputarer of the market from the crypto, that's about almost to get $1,000 trillion in one year. In one year. This if not be able to be able to get $1,000.

If not do you're not going to be able to be it, it's effect not going to be it. Because if the industry's already and it's not really it will be good. But if they're in the land of cut, turn it's not, it's not bad.

So if you're not bad. So if you're at the side of the government, I think that the industry must be able to be able to be with good. Now, the perpacaan is that the amount of the currency crypto, is that the actual

and to beundung industry in the country, it's been more than the way more more than the transaction crypto in the world. Now, now the third is how SRO can't see the transaction cryptos in exchange, isn't even there's a shton

don't even if there's asternery that's notherstaking that this all, and it's notary crypto, really, boom, in the art it's being used as a global, the country we're not yet. Because if our country not, we're not sure,

in the control of the security of the it's very much it's very it's why, if we look at the other than in Indonesia can't be in 2018. In the time 2018, it's the capital as a crypto as a commodity.

That we're the first one the one's the first time we're but now, the practice of Thailand, Malaysia, the Singapore, even in the government Vietnam,

has catching up, more than we're What's what what makes them can be more chagap. Yeah, if we can't be banished. Because Vietnam, that's not because of the regulations are

as a right, sir, because of the government communist, but if we talk to Thailand and Singapore, because they look at opportunity in there. They can see. The importance is just. The importance is just, that for the people

for the people, and in the country we're making with a betimbinging that, other and other and the other and the other and the other and the other back, to the year 2002, now, rinsignan from SRO this

still hasn't been to be able to perputarance 1,000 trillion. Two, three years that's what, three years ago, that's about 60 trillion, in a year.

Wow. Okay, this is my bernsaping with japan unciapan say, that this, this, the amount of

$10% per time, this, it'll be able We'll be able to keep in the number of years. Yes. We can see until 2040, it'll be more and more big.

Okay. We're going to go about in the future, yeah. You know, you'll get Bitcoin with Viat, that's substitute or complementar? Complementer.

And they're going coexist to the time so long as it. Yes, it's the same This is same as the question, is it a lot of people who are people who are there, amaz and the amount of credit, that will be able to subtit or complement.

Yeah. I'm not sure that the money of the that will still exist. Because the country needs the tanda the other than the money not just a lot of transaction, but also the data-lata. Yeah.

If we talk about Bitcoin, that is one of one, one of the money that's neutral, matawang internet, and money digital. Now, if we talk about, whether or not going to make people are going to make people still have

proud that they will that they will have independent of the system of the money with the data of the money. By the way, Andy, you know, you know,

is, is, Bitcoin standard of the money in the next That's one of one that I've written about a book other. So, we've got had three books that we've got.

The book that's partam, it's idealist, really. So, about what is Bitcoin? Yeah, book the two, we're about tokenization, about how, after Bitcoin is there, then, mucle tokens,

which made, what, or, you know, perwakalant, from a certain of a set. The other thing, And the other we'll about how Bitcoin, it's the function not like to make not, it's not to be standard of the world of the next,

which we think about complement with the money, the other than digital. But we're not going to be it. In 5, 10, 10, 10, down to the other, the other than will all make money not even cartels, but it will be digital. Enthal, they're going to use the distribution technology or using blockchain.

We've already looked at the Tjongok. If we've got digital payment just. Torn last, it's three times they're being the PDB their. If we're still coming to China, we don't need to cut up. We're going to pay taxi-cuit. They're get-tawain.

They're got to be able to get in. Yeah. I was at Starbucks, too, want to buy with money, they're got to pay with money, that's not have money, that's, one, that, they're going to reconsiliation.

at the end of the day. If digital, all of the day, right. Now, okay, back to the pastime, to what's the case or what's been in the last this,

can be able to beacquharan, can't be able to beckxed, what, is remedy that they have lulled, so they're to be making up jankap-pank-pank

on crypto. This is about remati of the people who in terms of their position is lost, yeah, or not. They're going to be $60,000, now at $20,000.

Yeah, right. Pasti, this is people who are people who, maybe the same to middle or pendix, than in the manner-pangang. Yeah, right? If we're looking at, entry, yeah, tit-entry,

this is one of one that's one that one that's one that's one that's different than investment ponzi. Yeah, poncy scheme, Ponsi game. If you're piramida, it's always, the person who's more

the first, they're going to be profit from the party that's the last. So, right. Right, but if we talk to crypto,

crypto, not, not ponzi, not pyramida. Because, because, sometimes, people who buy in better than

people who buy the because this about the tradeangangue. This is about like putaggagang emas, or like tradegagang demas, like a goodagangangas, like the trade of the market.

Yeah. It's about how much more than what I'm always melancho that, not for everyone. Trading is not for everyone. Trading is not for everyone. Trading is for people who have and have

and to know to come to come to come out from the past and when come out of the past management. And this is the investment management. Because that, it's the ideal if in Indonesia, there's a regsaddaer that would be great in crypto.

Also, there's management of investment in who's put in the crypto who's helping to control and desertifications in a way of the government, so that not mucleaunct that penipuance. Because, like in the US with the regsadena of crypto or index in crypto, it's more

much for people of people. Because if we talk about spot, That's not, not gamping by everyone. Just now, right now, legulasey, can't be able to spot. So, if you want to want, if you're going to market, you're going to trade in spot.

Yeah, it's trading in Indotagx, for example. Mungangik. Right, right. Now, if we're talking about crypto, yeah, if we're talking, this, can, if we're taking spot,

that means, actually, you're not really rugue, before you're making sure. So, if, if, If if we buy Bitcoin, if we're at $250 million in 2017, maybe in 2018, you'll have a lot of great-taxed. Wow, Bitcoin's down to $30,000.

If you're going to sell at that. You're going to lose. But if you're trying to the time 2020 to the end up to $800,000, you're under the ununging in the Gaelipa. But that's not everyone has kind of kentasan, mental investment, like that. It's, this is there caveat, if we're going to talk about investations in whatever,

like, in crypto, and also, it's also, it's going to time horizon. Yeah. Yeah, it's very much if durations is more end-ed, we have to expose to the risk that. But if, if you're going to be sure, I'm trying, I've been based what we've been about what we've

we've also we've been about. Now, Indonesia 2004-5, that's been a topic that I always I'd like to narsumber, or tamu, like. Gambarant is how, is, is, adoption crypto by the people of in Indonesia?

That's, that's, it's more than than now. is it more than what we can look at the in the other than what we can look at the other than in the Americas, or in the United. If we talk about slavourses the only in Indonesia,

so that's one thing is something that's very interesting. Because, because, the first, we talk about potency population Indonesia's just, it's always the way the United States. GDP in Indonesia, at that, we should we're maybe one top, five or even,

number one, number four. So, this is one of one of many. So, this is one that one that's very but GDP that's number four or the market

or the four that is not it's not we're not we're having the level of the people

people who are because it is still because it's also depending on to the social social.

If we're not able to educate the product Indonesia that we can try to make sure

to be a economy and just to be market but we we're not not can, the people will not have

made, the power economy will not going to be significant. And education if we're not with good,

that's the people, not can't be able to get caught. This is in India, but now

India is GDP's number number nine in the world. But if if we look,

the the power individual each person, it's far to below. Yeah.

The – Even the – even the – even better than

because social disability. We're more than than – – – –

– – – – – – – –

I believe in in 2004-5, rupee should have been made the rupee digital. But, rupee digital

this is centralization. It's still be able to be the bank central. The people will still

look pandan as the money that's the money that technology that technology that blockchain,

they're not petuling with all they're just making that, they're just making and it's not even to be the government of Indonesia.

Now, but if we talk about education that because of the matter of the state they're making spirit from decentralization, they know about the right of their, that they're not controlled by one entity or whatever that, they're going to

more more to be more than principle desensurization. So, if it's about 2045, I'm hoping that, education our more better. So, so we're more to more to be more... ...tendantan about what that blockchain.

...emarming what that's spirit desensuritization. Because in 2004-5, it's to look... Lama, but just 20 years. It's just 20 years. It's just so. ...Cept. I'm so... ...I'm still in the year 2020...

...ttawn two 2000... ...22-town-the-lal two years... Yeah, like, like, like, in the year, in 2000. If Indonesia, not, to get up, the conditions

our people are not going to be going to be rapid, but we're going like this just, yeah. Yeah. Even,

I've had been and a little per hypotesa, about it we're going to talk about inclusion, yeah,

but, but, can actually be able to answer. Issue, consenshanging, that's the Mucidi, in Gember, he can get access a rube-perak.

That's not just to answer. Because, if I don't say name, in Jakarta, that had actually had access 1T, yeah, right? Yeah, this is, this is up,

but this is a more more than this, two-d-and-the-one included. Inclusion is there, but equality is not true. So, if I'm asking, I'm am I'm more important than other than

other than other than I think. So, I'm very much spirit when you're making, you're active in education, even under kindergarten, right, right? Rastan kindergarten in Indonesia. Because, because

because, because education at the a while, it's very important, because we're going We want to make access to the money, we want to get on blockchain, we want to whatever, if education that's not. No. It's just like that's the current.

Now, access to the other than money is very. They have handphone, have KTP, they can't, they can't. But, is it to be made up? No, not too. Not, not even though. Now, it's the thingat on the taxed that's more than they're more than

they're more than they're being for utang. Utang for faya, it's for use, it's for bad for me. So if you're If I'm going to ask about 2004-firm, I mean,

I mean, I'm going to education our education we're good. If we're what we're doing doing

do you know about Indudax. We're, from the program named Indudx Academy. Indudx Akrami is not just

about how we trading, but we're talking about menenducasy about blockchain. Even to product that

product that's actually not we're doing, we're doing gratis to people, we're doing RETXX

which. The first we're We want to do CSR. We have CSR to educate our people, for a bonduant social, in a way to work of workshops,

class, and as well as we have mucking, for a couple of schools because we're if we're doing in the community care of 90s 100 years,

education has to bump. Yeah. Two other, other, this is a bit You know, see, Scenario Indonesia

can, like El Salvador, who can adopt the Bitcoin as a currency. If we look if we're at the power in our parliament not executive.

Because? 2004-5? 2005. That is, that's making long the end-undang will be able to but the process

the movement of the other one of the why we can't not that we can't do that is because we have under the law of the money, the law of the money has to be able to make making, we can,

we can, we can, we can't, but if we can't be used to be used, it's effect it's macro. So, is it maybe in 2004-5 we're supposed Asalador, but it's not a bit of usa.

But, is, if we're going to be a bit more of bitcoin, that's possible. That's possible. I'm going to look to that. But if it's a lot of it. By the other diversification, part of everything.

Right, sir. Yeah. Partion the last, we've heard about your upbringing. Anything you would have done differently? I'm the type of person who never messal with what I've per-bought. Because I know,

this, it's meant-cuting the set of the next. Cometing, the, of the people who are that the last lot, it's the thing, But there's everything. But what's the important is, the matter of the time. The past

it's not a result. Massad the path is a one that we're we're going to so that I'm there's something I said,

maybe just that I said that about the issue of my but it's not really something that can I'm

you can only learn from your experience from our own because of our own. But how we're going to be back to the path, it's more important. Wow, interesting, Oscar.

Thank you, Mr. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate from, Mr. Can't be here at endgame. Yes. That's Oskar Darmawan, CEO, founder of Indodaks, and BapakKoin Indonesia.

Thank you very. This is N-game.