Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Prof. Emil Salim (Part 3): Pindah Ibu Kota Bukan Solusi (#RI75 Special)

Episode Date: August 16, 2020

Visi saja tidak cukup. Perlu konsep, strategi besar, dan ketajaman menafsirkan segala keistimewaan dan kekurangan yang dimiliki bangsa kita agar “maju” tidak berarti merampas masa depan anak cucu kita. Negara ini pernah mengalami beberapa titik nadir sebelumnya. Bisakah kali ini kita lepas landas?

So every time I look at the lobang in Papua, the part of the past that's to the heart of Papua? None. How much from Batu Barra this to the heart of the people Kalimantan? Non. This is NG. I've, I've heard of this, I've talked about the linguongan.

Yeah. And if we've been to see, what, what, what's the revolution of industry, 1,8,50s, like, that the world has been emissed carbon of, 400 gigatons. Yeah. And, t'n'ttun majority of 1,400 gigatone

is done by the other and the countries major and America-Sericat, and, of, there also, Japan, and some other other other, and the other, just, at the end of this, but, but, If you can't give up with

the academician who's who can't even if they're calculation, or estimations their, maybe, more than 3,000 to 4,000 gigaton, carbon, that's still in this, yeah.

Now, consumption of manusia per-town, it's, that's, if, with assumption constant stand just 50-tawn. This is quite existential, but if I'm hearing the young young young, like they're not unhe on things like this,

that's about their they're quite finite. Now, that's how? What's your view on the spina? Yeah. I have a chucid. And that's really, yeah. If you ask me why I'm still, I have two cichet.

Okay. He didn't take... Ustiyan how much? ...that's about... ...a two, three years. I think... ...pathed... ...pad he, this is 214-year, or two years,

or two years, still young. What kind of Indonesia will he get it, yeah? In your mind, and... ...maca... ...macquesquee I've learned, my time, my... Do you know what is... What is happening now? Indonesia now is an island country,

like she's self. If there's climate change, sea level rise, not America, not RRT, not Europe, not Europe, island country,

so, we're in Pacific Island and we're in RI, the country of the of the other than that. Dialogue with the other than how much that. Sea level rise.

And, like in Indonesia, take Jawa, the part of Jawa is soft soil that's this that's brought by the

of the sunnays. Soft soil this because it's sinking. So, Jawa is beginning. The top... The top...

Tilting. Tilting, and Uttara is gradually sinking, the water is gradually going, and it's gradually in the discussion with the ari-aklinger. Tentu, it's a matter of time. But, what's the effect of the, the sea-level-rise,

not because sea level-rise, didn't go out, and it's been able, to makelems, the land of the Uttarra. And it will be in the United States. And it will be, even though,

the President, the other than the problem is the problem is climate, the problem of the weather and the curing of the hujan

and the curag of the water-tawar to be a problem there's a sure of the so in the sea of the sunnir, it's cring in like that. Svetary that, to the other things of such a much

that. How? So, so, the ringcasts, friends, Richard, ah,

Indonesia, need to need to the future, sinking of the country, that. Then we have discussed how. There's a way out of badook, leapsed pantay,

like what's done in Korea. The dam, breakwater, that. And, with the much, the right, is, mbendung banjure. The other, this is out. Fresh water is out. The water is out.

The three, so, so, the water, the same with two, three, jatilur. Fresh water. The, space, for solar energy. Right. Amput,

there are you can't reclaim, space for, what, do you know, Indonesia, the country of the not, that's the

, the laboan samudra we don't have – All transshipment Singapore, Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Malaysia is. Well, Now, now the debate is that we're going to RRT or Malaysia. Why not Indonesia? Why the hell is a trans-southment? It's not a community. This, there, is a lot of, from the Blanda,

if it's the way, from the world of Jail in the uterraining, it's about, Bermen, in the year, in the 20 or 60-skine, it's, it's, it's so, And that's very much as well, and it's very much, in a way, we are elaborating that.

Okay. But, yeah, viscina, so, so back to 2045, yeah, the country of the plambuan samudra, with the dalaphan,

where obar will be be bebeamang with anguputan land, where Singapore, where all are people who are there, R.I. There is a concept. We need the plawarabuan samudra.

Two, they need a maritime industry. Capal industry. Now, my mind my mind my mind is. This is Jawa, Indonesia, from the from the world of the geowah, Sumatra, by the bentoan from the ventura lempeng Australia-Asia. Kalimantan, not by the bentura of the lampen.

Because that, Kalimantan didn't have gung, but not seismic, but Vettland. East of this is the Wallace Line. other than the ecosystem of the world. RE has three ecosystems of the way of the Jawa, Jawa, Jawa, Samatra, Kalimban, Kupilawan, Kippur. Different ecosystem, different keigha and different approach.

Now, then, as far as national, if Java, it's just be conveying, that's supposed, this is how muchu-upon. This is, I'm back-Metri-Puruburnan. The key is subsidized return cargo. So, when I was in the perubuane, what's the time timbre mendedaki? from Jawa to Papua to Maluku, there's cargo.

Fuller, it's in. It's all right. So, that's right, we'll hear printies, we'll say, okay, if you have you have a break-even point, the cargo that's not,

the down the break-event point, subsidy, born in the United States, like the land of Phringus. So, the intingia, return cargo, you have to subsidize. If we develop Java, with, that,

the other, the air, electricity, so much, he can become a driving center for growth. The way of return cargo

from East Indonesia, they have subsidized. And then he's been And then, real, not with making Ibu-Kotta in the middle of Kalimantan. Talk about that, on the way of the public-kota. The logic is wrong.

Okay. What logic is, what logic is, you know, the logic is, not just to make physical of the city The same is with the system that's the key of the maincunioning is, what's the key?

Return cargo cost. Now, if return cargo cost, subsidize from growth that you've got to pay in Jawa this. And that's normal, that's it. So that's the history can't beaubsticant, more than the country of the landa growth because subsidy to species

island of Manukukhya. Now, not just to be there, we're going to Jaya, yeah, to Jawa, Subatranja. Mr. Emil, also, in context, prospect of the public of the borough of the city, this is, maybe, can lecehciches, can be elaboration? Yes.

Tried, Kalimantan didn't have gungum. Kalimantan, the land is wetland. Vettland is, they have, landas 40 centimeters in the back, that's, water.

The water, then bussug can't abut, what's other thanesamans because it wasob, gumbut, it's, it's been in the battebran. Lama,

long, long, the bathebara tex, later, it's, it's, in some of the in the Kalimataan, there are diamans,

there, There's no, there. Batu Barra, many of the same six of the Barra in the Kalimantan. Coup, right, that's. Not a person brass. Because of brass, paris,

as far as artificial, to aller in the air. Parto has tried to fail. I think that. But, but, but it's, It's not much cost. Plus CO2, carbon dioxide,

to speed, repatriparate the climate rise, Indonesia can't. So, so, what I've got to say, my name is my life. Mypins is,

is there, wetland that, we study, study, in other than you can, can, you can, the high value, Arvana. Why, Patin? So, if we're going to Baneramash,

patin, okay, I like Patin, but go to higher, and it's a higher, it's a lot of, so, so, how much-bearing-value-added fish. Higher value-added fish.

Higher value added water products. Higher value, and much of much, higher value added. Okay, let me touch on this. Baphaugh about higher value. This is, is the aspiration is to rank up in the Rantay Nile. We're still a bit more, can make a bit of the batu, yeah, already can make motor,

but we can't make microchip, we don't even bettering up artificial intelligence and and all the end of the end up the end up the point that I'm up at the article in the Surat Cabar the end of the context is productivitist. Yeah. In order, for we can be become a banka more much, value-edit-needit-ne-ne-digy, productivity has to be increased.

I'm going to productivity. Productivity our productivity, our own, Singapore is $140,000. Yeah, right? Now, tentunty if we're going to do make sure about value-added, we have to increase it. And then, BAPA,

I-Corps, incremental capital output ratio. We're in 6.3, India, Vietnam, in 4.3 and 4.6. Artiness, more than we're more than product. What's the way? How? Why?

More. Mata, the indung, otta, the quality of the brain in between Indonesia, Vietnam. I say, what, jang. the book, benoble export to Vietnam. For the whole, how do you know, why the hell do you? Because they can't.

Why the hell? They can. Why don't they're not? They're going to teach us. So, logic our, raise your brain power for productivity. Now, how do you do this? If you know, if I look at Papua,

I look at the Pagapura, what I see look at? Lobang. In the back of the past, I say, the co-cahion of theobang this, how percent did not make-gantikantikantyatat Papua? How much percent

of the oil, the earth, Batu-Bara, Subhater, and such-a-slatan, and many different, we galley, we galley, we galley natural resource, non-renewable, batu-bara, miniak-boumi, much, why not put part of this

into human brain resource development? And that renewable, so it's renewable, non-renewable. The world is doing this. So every time I look at the lopang in Papua, the question is how many of the issue of becass it to the otakapua? None. How much from Batu Barra, to theotakia people Kalimantan?

Non. Kalimantan, Sumatars, South, much, so much. So, so grand strategy is, Non-renew resource is justified if you use the input to build renewable brainpower. That is justified. So, in the long run, this is down, this is up, it's. So, there's strategy in the resource development. export, export, export,

all investment, investment, investment, what? If you know what? If you know what? The energy of the world what's added value for the country our people in the

we're in productivity that. Can the key productivity is brain, is the this whole strategy of the development,

the sector non-renewary source, You've got to you have a new resource investment, brain power, and so again. With the wayan, we have not a non-renewal resource, but substitute of brain power. And brainpower is creative. It develops.

So it's so clear. And I see that's earlier. Norway has done this. So, no, go to Norway. Baja Pratero. Do to Sweden. Baca. Singapore.

Yeah. Singapore, human capital is a lot of New Zealand, Singapore, Norway. Why do you imitate this? Because mineral, Tampag, it's been 90-tallon,

There's no need to renewing resource transfer. There's no. Oh, why, so? Because, why? So, because, that's... So, that's... Well noted, Pa, Emile. What? Well noted.

Well noted. I've got to say again, and... But I want to ask again, about, what, what, obsessy, Mr. Emile, Bapharesa yayasan, yeah, right, yeah, right, yeah, can'ta ragaman haiati?

And, if I see byproducts of the prakarsa the other-sha-biasa, that'sa-lawful investasy in some of the green, yeah, right, yeah, yeah, and, that's a lot of investasas in recadana,

yeah, of the environment. Why this is not too be able tola-salju – – it's not pervasive, like, why,

the mood that's the government termed in Cadin, it's not sustainable development. This is omnibus law.

How Iqwae about in-en-linkument and be able to telly-ad administrative. So, mindset, not from the sustainable development, that's what I see, termasup, so that our in the city,

the heart that is deliberate to have friends, We need you. Kequitaan. Yeah. Please, what? Gaman Schafe. You understand. Please help us.

You talk with your fellows. That this is beneficial for the nation and for you self. But this is the motivation. That is the motivation. Sometimes, or sometimes, or, this iseked-kent, with the kind of the long-term, and, yeah,

it's intuition just, right? Yeah. The importance short-term, this, can, actually, derangue by the people who, actually, not too per-merecting

short-term, because they've just just enough there, right, right, right. Yeah, right. Yeah, right. To do, to make sure things that's

that's been a decade. Yeah. Yeah. So, I think, I'm, I'm saying, or they're not

not really, are they only thinking about their own stomach? Are they not sinking? How do you're not thinking? How do you survive? Yeah. What's not there,

So, yeah, right, I'm, I'm, I'm not so I'm interested, but in my personal interest, but in my personal interest, it's also my chichit, my cich, my cich, my family, so, why it's not in the logica

of the time, I'm looking like this, this, this is a time-pendent. It's really, what's... ...it-hindary, right? ...that they're... ...same they're being iniquelskhan. ...and I'm looking like,

...aselam that's the same time this, or gessekin this, ...demean by someone who be a peasantinginginging jang-pendentive, it's... ...emortgage... the future of our and for our children and chichit.

Yeah. Yeah. And, Ibarat-cata, if in the concept or context, accuntansy, it's the different cost. Yeah. And this, how, so, the generation that's now that's kind of,

me-likas-kind or that's our children with our children with our children, or maybe they're not too what do you think? Yeah, so we've got to try about Islam, for what, from Aristotle,

like that. I mean, there was many also there intellectual, intellectuals, can't do? The intellectuals to think beyond the short-term money, interest, And try to think of Aristotle's or the gayasth, like of kawrismi,

such as much, so that's life becomes more meaningful, more abadi, that's kawrismi, kind of, it's been abate, he's abadi, you know. And the millionaire, the raja-raja-malaean, much, then, it's, so, that, the quality of meaningness What's what?

What we have? What's the other, Indonesia is the only country in the world. Kepulawan, Hatulistewa, vertical zone, two samudra, this, the river,

here, the ocean, there, two benua, this, Masha Allah. Masha-a-a-Lah. That is a heaven.

In heaven on earth, is it's a curse of being blessed? Is it the curse of being blessed? But if we're jalo, if we're jale and be thinking in the agama, why did God do this? What is the mission that you expect us to do? We sing Chara Khawarismi, Then we find a meaning of life in Indonesia.

And, that's the kheasan Indonesia, we can't find out of the the benefit of it. So, because that I'm just, I'm madra, we have the center from paddy, paddy is from us. Why the hell are we importing brass? importing, that's all the heart of this.

It is as we're just, it's just this. So, the other than what we need to be thinking, what's going to give this, what is, the approach must be, not resource exploitation, but resource enrichment, per-caiaan,

value-added. So, Not even though to be a few-edict of the point of the point of the ecosystem, R.V. finding, value-eddit of ecosystem? No. Mining, it's been major. Begit that's the major, that's the law-edged-DPR, is mining, undang-undang, minerva.

My God. So there's one way to think of the way to think of the sun, and not know what I'm not going to think how to make use of the sun, of the wind, of the rain, of the the hijow, to make upang-can, there's what in-balek of all this? If technology solar or matahary, that's studies, if I read,

that, while even sinar-mattahary, but, but awaned in Indonesia. So because of the up to the other than the other than the other than matthewasksimah. There's one that's about 20 to 40% from the sunar that disrap. So because it, yeah, want no, we're still to fossil fuel. There's also that I said, if I read also, the wind, it's spotty, not in allure in the

of the whole of Indonesia. And if you're nother, there's places that's out of the Papua, there's that big up to be able to 20,000 megawatt. Tuntunuchy, in Sulawesi, jawa, there's

but now that's be able-dai-can is micro-hydro. I'm the to be more more proactive but not only from on-on-omongan-a-

but from the policy. Policy we have to be able means subsidi, the importance of the more more than the more than the other to the people who are the same I'm saying that's

we're seeing that's about things that conventional like fossil fuel, it's not bigixtanah and that the delfts of this the deliruance of this is that

renewable energy cost is more than dirty energy that dirtiness CO2 not into cost. So it's Apple to Apple. That's what I want to say to by the Minister of ESDM. This is not Apple to Apple.

He said with me, this is more. It's more. But on-cost, penciman, but on-cost, penciman, that you're going to where. Yeah, yeah. This is very interesting, this is very much

I'm going to talk about about democracy. Democracy, if I think I, has been in three phases. Democracy individual, democracy pastar, or neoliberalism

that's by Hayek in 1938, then re-activation by Reagan and Thatcher. And then, this is democracy data. Panangang of Pa, Emil, how about democracy?

Because if I see, the first phase of democratization this, still makehalsalsalsalsing a consangangu. Yeah. Yeah, right? Yeah, can?

Is it too quick to be democracy? And if we've even be democracy and survive in a way if we're in the same about democratization data?

Because, the end-ojung is, like the A.M.L. It's important. But there byproducts, data is a democratization. And data, is, subject to privacy that has to protect

for individuals to how you. How do you? Because of democracy that I know, Minangkabaw, much, much, is basis of the commuthratant be a yo-yo-nambot-notes-pacquatting to be a certain of one matter.

So, data data, so much more than it's just because of the best of course can objective. data is a tool, not a dual, not the twojuven, democracy is a system and a, in a manner to agree,

informed to make a agreement. The people who I know, if we're mushawera, yeah, it's tele-tele, but to be able to galley as much, but to galley as much information, so,

so, well-informed for them who make up the putusant, and with informed that well-it-to, take the right decision. So,

But not only look at this is so long as a lot of a lot of a lot of you. Can you say something optimistic about Indonesia to go to 245? What is what can becault for my and people who are more than more for them more than more than for them, even more than, even more. We're more. We're being, by the Baja.

This is, it. This is really, honest, the personal, that. When we came back in America, we're doing all the same-machar in the squad, and then we'll discusses, I'm going to say,

can't knowyconomy in Indonesia. Yeah? I'm thinking about 55, that's 65, that's just born. Bancroot, we've got, we've got,

and we're talking with some of the KASQaeda, so, so they're, they're... Six, five, yeah? So, so... So, so... ...and, soxqad,

this is... who's very honest, so they're bankrupt because of the un-and-a-is-and-a-but-singata. So, if people say, huthang, who are not even that, that we've got bankrupt, that. Every day, Duta, and that's at the Contra-Moddrake-Barrareda-Baradat,

to Partham, and Pardu, and the end-oom end up there. when will you pay our debt? So, so that's the way of the head that's all right. We're going to be back. So, how that's it?

What I'm going to say it. What I'm saying, what I'm very high is, yeah, the smet optimist, that it can be done, and I'm sorry, and many of the time,

and shared with the team of the squad, it can be done, that's the other, the other than the staff, the other, the staff of the MPA and the one of the but you know it's

back good, but it is the knowledge, that it can be done, If, study, consistent. That's the fact that you do, October of October of 66, is to be able to get to gettas

to make up, why, why, to, with the, with the Sultan, with Adamalik, that,

so that we're, we're just, Oh, it's at that Indonesia, in the other than in the in the company that don't trust you. Tibat, so here we are,

look to our face, challenge us, do you trust us or not? That's, I mean, this, dada-u, like that's like that. So it is trust-building. But Jeffrey Ventes that's a free fort this. It's really a lot of it.

It's really trust building. Here we are. But what are you planning? Where do you start? Yes, I know. We have this depth. But we are planning to do this. And then India is why you want to be doing. So there.

There's sultan, there Malik, there. Tell the truth. Tell the truth. Yeah, tell the truth. Yeah, tell the truth. It works. in Ajijai, in Paris meeting, so much the last year.

Can you imagine, like, when IJai menerima, that's from Tadabakhud, been honorable, and to be it. Credit's up, the prinkat the rank. But that's it. Create confidence, yeah.

I agree. But you, your nation, this is not my because of my heart work, BAMAS, this, production of the PANG, many, psalm, pung, pung, pung, pung, the nation, it's fascinating, it's. And, there's all that, so much of the pangu,

KB, then B, B, B, and so many, and so many, and so many, and so many, this nation is good, I love it. I love it. No, but I'm sitting here. But if you do it well, this nation's life. Wow. Thank you, Mr. Emil.

I'm happy to hear what I'm saying There's many of the other than from the pessimistic, but, at least, it's not so bad. It's not so bad. If you're about what you've ever in 2005, in 4,5, even in 30, when you're back to your life.

Thank you so much, for your time. So-Temann, that's Al-Emil Salim, and the person that I very heart-harmatie, a person who is very able to give youjongan and nassayat for us all. Salamalikum, and we'rehmatulahi, wabarakato. This is NG.