Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Reza Idria: Pemimpin Modern Itu yang Seperti Apa?

Episode Date: April 26, 2023

Berkah kemajemukan dapat berubah menjadi musibah bila makna keberagaman disalahartikan dan disalahpahami. Bagi Reza Idria—antropolog yang juga mendalami ilmu Islam dan syariat—antropologi lahir bukan hanya atas perbedaan dan dinamika yang terjadi di dalamnya, tetapi juga untuk merangkul dan merawat perbedaan tersebut. Dengan upaya mengerti satu sama lain, konflik dapat dimitigasi dan keberagaman dapat dihargai. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #RezaIdria Profil bintang tamu: Reza Idria adalah Lee Kong Chian National University of Singapore (NUS)-Stanford Fellows on Southeast Asia di Walter H. Shorenstein Asia-Pacific Research Center (APARC), Stanford University. Ia juga merupakan asisten profesor antropologi sosial di Universitas Islam Negeri (UIN) Ar-Raniry Banda Aceh yang merangkap sebagai Wakil Dekan Bidang Kemahasiswaan dan Kerjasama Fakultas Ilmu Sosial dan Pemerintahan di universitas tersebut. ------------------------ Magister Kebijakan Publik SGPP Indonesia Pendaftaran Maret 2023 admissions.sgpp.ac.id | [e-mail] | https://wa.me/628111522504 Playlist episode "Endgame" lainnya: Wandering Scientists | The Take | Spirituality Kunjungi dan subscribe: SGPP Indonesia & Visinema Pictures

Theinia is that'sal right, badenicia is that's not. There's no one. Cuali our enemy, it's in the world. We're, because of the importance of harmony, that's, without saddard, we're really, in position of people who are inhumanization. There's a perisance overconfident that superior,

berpickir-dir-dir-dir-divir-div-bigh-bigh-bigh-a-old-old-old-a-old. It's almost tipis, the condition. This is N-NG. Hello, Hello, time, we're today,

Réza Idria. Beliala is Dosen in Uynearri, Banda Achehe, but also a one fellow at NUS Stanford University. Reza, thank you, thank you, thank you,

Bah. Latar back on you, you're very very much. You're in Leiden, in Harvard, and now at Stanford, and

Iceh. Tell it, tell you. Yeah, I'm like, I'm in a life in a place in ache that's

about 15 kilometers, but at my time I'm quite quite much much if we're coming in it's called

it's a city, Banda Acee. Mookin the time that for us, we're

Banda Ache. Actually, actually too, you know, when I'm not too far as far as I'm going to be able to be able to be able to the same. So, it's one

campong, namu. If you're a position now too far as far as from airport, from Blang Bintang. One, it's a good.

So, in a time, tsunami, I and myrughey, I'maugh, I'm at Rasa, in the Kampung that also.

Lalu, in the more school, S&P, I'ma, that's like, when I'm routine to Kota Banda Aceh. I'm not too

too much while I'm in Sanauya that, because it was a bit, what, yeah, One of the other, I'm going to be a lot of the first

to geter the car to the car. And the way to the same way. So, that's a good condition that's not too much not too nashen. What I was that, I mean, I'm going to be able to do, I'm going to be, what I'm going to be, It's just, but it's just to be able to be able to be able to class ungul. For the penitigation, slat-na, I'm atrasah, program of course of that

there, there's one program from the Kementryan Agama that maybe now now, but I don't know why it's not a lot of it, that's not delinjutment. if from from the time of the time my time inattahsacetan and after I'm atopat, rather than after, they're in school there,

it's one, that's a program that's interesting. We're, pagina, like, school like, people,

with the amount of the publiceran-um, but also, it's, it's, with, the, the prajara,

and, what-naman-a- I'm, I'm, I think I'm very good-burys so we're good-gourn't-gutas. So we've learned, we'll learn al-it-a-hidhys-ri-hadi-hadi-hiah,

al-hidhidi-a-hidhsriwaihah, plazir tafsir, learn from kit-a-kip which did-jad-rucun-un-ut-ut-up. We've learned kaida-a-a-a-a-a-a-sul-vik and all-mach-suff-sand. And for I,

at that, I think that's a program that's really-bet-bate-bishop. How much we're doing-mahmy-Islam? I'm sorry, madrasa-Sem-I, madrasa program-cusosos it, in 2009. That's one condition policy politic that's very bad at the time. that. After Suharto Jatatollah, I think, uh,

when there's furya that's been about reformation in other. Aceh, maybe, is going to be a way to be

different. Conflict to be more tachem. Atalya, when I was at Rasa program

because I'm the idea, the stacchata to go to Al-Azara at allan. Because, because,

um, not too, There's been a lot of inspiration in Achehe. There's a one that we've made making a runeastern, that's always what name name, and over the questions in Banda Aceh

in that way, and he'll beaulia al-Azhar. And I think he's been a lot of idolat for us. This can be a what, what name, the two-a-lanjutant. So, we're preparing in madrasah it, belajah, fict, learn tat-bhasa, learn as long as long as farahs because of the one of the

but because of the condition that I gotakant that I've got been able and I'm the plan of my and I'm at YAN Araniri in in

in Banda Achehe I'm going to give jurusan per bandinging Mazha at that faculty Sharia that

that's sure that also coincident with many many The fact isaic about Acheh can be able to do with the same one model

of the predakation that was done by the government to redam to make GERACHA meredca can, and thenawarking Azeh to make up to make sureanakhanihaniol. Yeah, alasan, maybe a little pragmatic, if if shariaan Islam

what name is, what is, maybe, you know, if you're a expert, then I can get a peggiaan. But but in the same, what I'm the way, I'm not the way that's not. I'm learning with Zhab and I think it's very important to I'm having to beaamomahs that's not much.

It's I'm morebara-ulah-ul-ul-a-ul-a-ul-a-lure that we're trying to make-ersa-pirtan pertan-per-pidant, per-beadan-pand-a-pand-an. And in Mokaranama Zhab, we can be able to look at,

so-cua-bri-hati people, the thinkers this, the people, the people, people who are the same thing, that's not really to reflective again in the time of the time. This,

why, I'm going to, I'm saying, I'm saying, this is one of the ones that, which is influential for the way I, to look,

I'm, and how much kind of, what I'm going to come to be the future. So then. That's up to From around

2009, I'm at last 2004 It's difficult really, in the time that, because Acheh were in

the above Darulat military Maybe in, in the quality of education not too be partanguptuptan

That's like that's about if we have that's about it's about autodidac and that's what we're in terms of, maybe that's what we're more end up in. But in the same, because of the condition Achea, that's not stable, the care of the same, and we,

especially we're at the time that in campus, also, very discouraged by authorities by aparat at that when they were ingap, when they're aggapinged

there, there's been, there and other than sootam, so much more in a lot of glia. There are many also the other than I think because we've been

from the kind of that we've got to we've got to we'll make and there's some people who maybe can't try out of

the situation like that I and people with the group of study the group of leger other than we have, we're participating in that for that.

Because there were a punsying in where, so there's there. There's been there. There's been

there. We're going to dupuonsi, and make them and make sure on the same and the same. And how much

our work we with people in the world that's also so we're so, we're there, there a clompo

bach and So from the time I'm from the time of the time from from the United States. There's a lot of the time, that, which, which, which, which, which, many, which, which, and... imaginations our own, yeah, um, what, um, and this

this, and this, this, it's, and it's... ...to-beyonding what? ...withan, about what, um, by the time of... Um, at the time, we're, uh, I'm sorry, will be active, yeah, sir, yeah, yeah,

that's about that's about and then when you're that's more, that's more, that's, it's not subversive.

Yeah? So, with, with them, we've got discussion minguwan, then,

mbedah, buku, then, also, and from, then, and from, I'm,

So I'm not so much as well as well as much more than in the korek, I'm going to be made, I'm going tolis in Kompas, in Majla Tempah, yeah, that's kind of in before tsunami, then. And then, after tsunami, yeah, condition actually is very much more than and reconstruction. I think that's a phase important for me

and Aceh as far as far as far as people, we have to be more large, we'll make connection more than more than that's

a lot of the one of the motivati me to make uptivation because I think before tsunami we had we We've got, we've got, I've never thought.

Who can't even know, the imagination of the time of that, yeah, the group of bladjerkers, that, yeah, a lot of people, there,

um, there's friends from Georgia who who used to give us at that time, give us, Chi G. Farah. I, I'm coming,

it's far as, I think, more than, solution. So, so, so, posts poshungucian

again, one of the post that's part of the location Tamak, that's why I'm going to be to meet with Ms. Garin Nuguroho so that, when he made a film, it's, so, it's made, there, there's a, up to 15,

that's all of, film Chud Nadeen, or? No, film, film, film, film, film, about tsunami, actually. That, that, and, And then

from the other because there's, after program reconstruction, there's been from L'O, NGOA from ACE. From there, from

from there, from there from there, so, so, it's still to be the end up the education that

more than you can't be English. Yeah. Not, not, Actually, there. There's a madrasah that I've

in the program of course of today, that's, besides Bahasa Arab, also, the language English, it's been made in the plazarderangulant, yeah. But, maybe, yeah, because there's no cutertarikin, so, more focus to study agamah. Yeah, many, like, what,

what, namay, there gium, there gium, in, the campung, not, it's, not, It's not in the same way to say I'm going to say that. In fact that, or in the afterlife, we're not in terms of the same.

But in the afterlife, not, not, uh, the ajaram of the English. Then, yeah, with,

with their all, it, will motiva to I, I'm motivated, I think, um,

the education, and the and I, I, First, why to Leiden, yeah, I think, there's one, one agent Beassisua,

when, came to A.C. The most of the USE, yeah. So, yeah, man, yeah, make-agre-asasasisation and recruitment, like, kind of, I think I'm going to be able to. It was made in one hotel in Banda Aceh at that. I've got to I've got to bea

I'm about about that many of the last time I'm saying that's about when I'm going to bea about that when I'm still sentimental sometimes kind of kind of agbastis

too what yeah the name's the people people so I'm saying so much much when people who was people, has to be it's about the same, with us with the other than

alasana. And, maybe agent BASISUA this, he can be able to do or, or what, but, maybe,

one side, and, you know, to be able to but, but, not can't be English,

how it's, that's, the task, that's making I can't be English, but that'serra. That's,

that's, so, I'm in a program to beaer intensive English in Jakarta Inshallah How much? About 6 months

And that it's pasty not too So, I'm going to be back from there, I'm going to be But that's too much intensive, can? Very much. It's for beaer to full, yeah,

I'mer, I'm thinking, I'm being baleighur Toffel this is something that's very technical if you're being practiced, yeah, but he doesn't representatisicant the ability of our abhasa, and the more than the more than trampil, we're as much as we're in TTS,

but it's. But, but it's not that's what we've got to beputed in study. So, so I'm backalie with the way, with the way of the way, and try to be communicates with more than more than

film, want to listen music, yeah, I'm sure, I'm going to be able to be it before that, not too attentive to the lyric and

all the kind of. Lerick, and all I think, I think, important for me, to make more, to be able to, It's how much more than how much more than what?

That's what? That's what I'm making, um, what, um, um, um, um, um, um, I think that's the same I'm being around. So, so, uh, so I'm gonna, uh, I'm gonna do not, uh, I'm gonna'n't my best in Belanda. Uh, yeah.

Um, and, um, and, uh, Icaith, that's Leiden, I think, because there's also there's many many matri-matry that's important that was brought by Colonial to that. And for me, it's important, I access. In there, and then, there, also, there, there, also, the other Achehe that I know,

I've been made sure in the name's Skandar I'm going again again again again how he's

being able to I'm going to know from that from that from what you what's what what

what what what you do you know to be in the landa and they're

kind of that's that's that's kind of in in the in the

in the person I'm Nulus Dittem to Liden Mabel what?

So that's because I was, the background that's study Islam, so I'm going to use the Islamic studies in there. This also that's what I'm doing to learn how I'm how much study that's also because

I've got two mentor in there, one of an anthropologist, he's studying of Morocco, he's a world, one other historian from Mesir al-Azhar Studying about

Islam in Europe He'll be able to be one of the talko that before I met him I'mgap controversial Maybe we've heard Nasir Hamin Abu Zay He can be fatwa

He's someone sessat in Mesir and also Yeah, I mean to make I'm I'm married I'm giving a lot of people people who are

people who are studying in Indonesia yeah I'm saying who's studying in he's he's and also

she's ring to come in the room and I think many things I have learned from from

from beliow even in English because because he's because he's a person

he's a person It's also. He's alexir. If you're like to be a big of people who like to be it, like, Muttazilid,

and that's like that. But, but, but, but in the people, and have commitment that's more-biasat, and how the world

of the same that I'm that I've learned from Nasir-ahmin. And, There's many of the other that I see that I think that background, the background, the background, I'm going to be a lot of my life, also, have something that I can give contribution, too, so,

so, so, so all the study I, from Leiden to today, that's too much from the way that's more than what I'm which I'm linear maybe the kind of of the kind of the kind ofatowns that but core that I didn't, I never missusally that I'm going to be able to

miscellarer, from Marrazaa program and then to study perbanningan mashab then I'd like to Leiden, to Harvard, even today, I'm from back in Stamford, I think, there's one trajectory that's...

Bluarsia. Bluarsia. Baphae. From the Kampong that's 15 kilos, from Dada Ache. But now, but now, now,

now, from, from my from my name I'm, to, Kata Kata Kota, Kada, can,

24 minutes, maybe, but, but, but, But if I'm like, when, but I'm still I'm still too often.

You know, I'm going to talk about here. You know, and then, and then, with what you're what you're sacksicc and what you're in Indonesia

from the evolution of culture, evolution anthropology. Yeah. So, to

to anthropology there's a lotif personal from, from there. So, so before I went to Belanda,

I was, I'm, I'm, what, namani, as a assistant peneliti,

so a person anthropologist, who's, who's quite senior from Cornell University named after Jim Siegel. Perkenalal I'm from Jim this

also, from the clangangangangang of my because at the the time the first after predamayan

and then I'm with people who called people called backa that also making a group We've made school to write, we've got to write a journal also one of the

important for the point of that is how, how much the idea about Acheh, about shariaan Islam, it's been in the year-sixthousan with Pemortokan Darul Islam. We're going to try to make gali to look at what, what the same kind of the difference, because then, respond the government is similar. So, in response, there's gul-jol-jol-Jol. politic, and why the power of the power of Islam

it's notheran. And I think, it's important to to make sure people who are in general that time we're making people who are senior to

menelies, but also penelite that in Achea in that and Jimsikil is one of one of the first of one thing that's the first thing that

when we're going to be able in Aceh, with Tungu Dau-Bur-Egh, even people who's influential in Gereqa in the Rural Islam in Aceh. I think to hear how much he's about what he about what you know,

is about kind of similar with format and concept that then they're given to Acheo in the early abat the 21. So, I'm trying, but to carry-counter, because because of the professor

de Cornell, can't get upang we got about email so that I'm going to give himal to him, and I'm going to say that we're project like this, and we're hoping he can't be ayesha. And, of course, he said, I'm going to beaceh in some of the time to get back. He was able to be able to beaic-hinger, so it's

in English, so it's in the language, so I'm going to listen to the English, emailing. So, I'm going to bea-Chi, he'll say, if we can't meet in Banda-Aceh. That's in 2000, if I was in 2000, if that's in December, that's in December, so we're in a lot of December. So,

we're in a hotel of the city of Manda Aceh, hotel that's already, because, I'm not there, hotel that he had a kenangan, because he had, made,

in the time, at the day, In the day of the day, because I've never met up until they've been but it's just being able to be. So, he's still in lobby. I said,

I'm going to get him with Jim Siegel. Oh, yeah, yeah, I'm Jim Siegel, but I'm still men who'sa, I'm going to be able to be from university. I'm, I'm saying, I'm going to say, so I'm going to be like that.

So, yeah, maybe not true. Maybe it's too much. Maybe that's more than, maybe not mirrored, so he's not sure, so. But after that, yeah, what, name, we, we, we have to learn one of other, and I'm still in many of themany him to where I'm going to do with study to A.C.,

and that's almost, and every month of December, he'd come again to A.C., and I always, from there, I'm going to belajure. I'm not a study, what? The apoceran, he's about anthropology, the study anthropology is like what?

He never made a definition to me, what that is anthropology. So, yeah, look just what I make, he said, he said, look at what I'm making. Yeah, it's more to, what, namarer, campung, mender the story of people, then, and then, I'm saying, and transcribesi, hasil wauwancara.

And then we're, we're talking like, I'm going to analyze this, what, and so on the same way. And I'm doing, I'm doing, from him. this. And what what's interesting? What's people? People people, even the most thing that's the most

something, that's the same thing, but, actually, it's not, like, there's there's a lot of, and he will be very with the stilatheor-tersebut, and then, and, maybe, he can give him to me, five,

seven lemb, analysis from one-and-a-one-a-allis from a lot, that's just. Yeah, yeah, I was not, I don't, I'm not even though, because it's not very much, a word of a word that's very important to be it, up to result

an analysis that's much like that. Yeah. So, so, what, name, yeah, she, he said to me, you know, gollia just to America,

not to Belanda, like, what other, yeah, like, later, he'd be, like, I think,

like, you were, like, do you, that, he was probably, yeah, with memory of the most of the last last, yeah. Yeah, because, after I'm from Belanda, then one professor, rector,

in Yain, that was also, I'm going to say, from Leiden, don't, don't, you know, to come to say,

that, that's, minimal, you, to, to, to actualization the people,

The most of the main We have been in the Kampung Halamand, that's like, okay, not it's all right, but if I'm not there, but we're going to be able to get in a little.

No, you know, that's going to beaer in there. I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Al-hmm, so, so, when I'm going to be able to be able to be it, and so... DOSEN, DOSENDS, PNAS at that

at the same as well as well as because I'm upgrade the education and more, to learn still, like the same as like the call Lesie Girl. What's the person

people who wrote about anthropology and stuff? I used to try apply to some and Harvard when that

when you're when you're yeah, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm, I was about three-year-one to

go to that's just that's just maybe we're in badmahatton in the Boston that's actually duck-dick-dug because I'm from

Indonesia from Achea, like, that there's serian Islam because, I'm afraid how this perception, yeah, because of it,

because image that I know In America, Islam islam. But, it's not much of the same. But it's very much more than what I'm going to show you to make. Abley, what I'm making, I'm having a room that's great to, we could be contribut, about narrations, about contos,

about, what, what, the facta, from the epitic, we can't give them a different, even if they're small, that stereotype that they've been born or even the curingiaan that they're only based on from the lawy, bambasti,

and it's not as well as well as, and, yeah, because we're just have data data from the land that's about that's about

that. I guess know how ACE should be able now. And

apak the change in Aceh is the the the

people democratization that the people by the people

people people people people people there one one

that for me, what's... It's really, really about it's really, especially that I'm saying that's actually, actually, can, maybe,

bagian that not far from Indonesia, I mean, from the whole world we're, as well, as far as far as, emotion, but... But,

but... ...caring, that's the same for me like Icai is for me too much more than Icai that's from the people who are in the same type that's too long that in the in the way that's in the land that's beena that's been taken by colonial d'natured, in the way of the way of the waytacian that's notarer, that they're fanatic, and this also, not know,

I don't know, yeah, I'maicca, I'm sure that's all. People I'maic, that's, I'm going to be able to. Yeah, but there's a condition too, that I think, uh,

people have been alasan to look at like that. Because if, if, if, if, this social media can be done byrometer, That's kind of comment comment people around whatever

that's all right after. It's one of the same. It's one condition that's very different with the areas, day in Indonesia, in Indonesia, the United in Indonesia, yeah, and the United States. First, because there's there's a change of the same that has consequences to have homily in the unlawfulomies of course.

Why Acha has had a partai local which is not been in the area other. And then, also, heistimewan to be lestanagan shenanisman. Maybe in the way, I'm in the way that there'saq more than I'm sure that's the way if they're able to make uphapakkan

hikmah, can actually, after there's beencana in Islam, in theology that we've got to beaam that's just as much, there's aikmah, there's a bit of the acme, there's a bit more. But, they could do better. They can't be able to get more than what they've got to be able to do,

with what that's been given, Like with with the condition with the Utti's which the Uygh that has made Umbudsmanahs has been more in the law law uprolet

per-economian And then with the special in the recogniziness in the world Ache in Islam There's a aspect that much more than actually can be proleh

over the people. But in the tatakolation This is now and it'salas because of the other than the other than the other than there's before. So, narrations before

predamayan it too also be run, but still be debat who's the most Aceh. So if, if there, maybe, there was common enemy, when there pressure from the atas, maybe,

the other, maybe the other, but now, the conflict is more horizontal. Who's the most Ache, where partai political that's representatik and other than, then, and then, again, and then, again,

direction of the plakshanan Islam, this is the same thing. This is what I said, in the study I before about, because of Mazhab, forbaningan Mazhab, it's really very high-science,

science about the human-islam, this, and how much the different pananguant in accommodated, and then, because of the beda-per-per-bearing that's-buncule, muncule analysis-brew, and that's new,

now, which is, this, missing. So, if, mis-solution, in the discussion, colleague we're at Stanford, this, for the frang Fukuyama liberalism and it's discontent.

So, there's, there's, there's, there's something about sharia Islam this, that's the essenceinesses not, it's not made focus. How, mowabati discontent, in context sharia? Yeah, I think, literati that's the most important,

how it's, how to move, to develop can't, and re-relective and reflective, that's the direction of or maybe the way that's there's a lot of here, there's a lot of here.

Because from the this, actually, from, when the people the United States gave ache pluang to do that sharia, that I'm doing

doing kajian, basically, How much that's right? This is the way that's experimental. So, weji-coba, test, and all the same. And, yeah, well, the stil-is-lilhs which is used to,

it's really, it's-sulid, if we're recourse, with how the ulama ulama classic, it's also mediniscan sharia. And in Acei, this is one of the other that's a good

we're also we're also there's a goodaicator in Acee. The people are you not, what, namines, we're looking in, what,

namely, trying to intervene what you're doing what they're doing by the government, so, so, so,

so, so, so, this is, this I've that's, that's, this is I'm,

that's, kind of kind of can't when we can't if we can't be able to media and

people who are people who are people who are in the imagine in Aceh it's like in Afghanistan

and like in Iran and that's like that's not not. It's not even there some

there's some practice in in in what um what

the people um the um in how how much how much of the same

this is there there's a lot of there's a lot of the lawful which is sort of media media asing that's just

there's just there's just there's also dynamica that's important that is to see that people also

very proactive to look at is, this has to be perbu. This is a ongoing contest that's interesting for I look at. There's a certain that's not because it's dicted by, by,

because I think, because there's a culture in the other people of Acese that, if there, if there's something, they can try to look at it with

quite proactive. Although, maybe, that mainstreaming, but but it's just not static, so that's not monolithic too, it's the end upholatineh. In fact, in the last, in the

people are the same thing about about the law enforcement, that, in fact, I think, is, is, more landai, people have more, more be thinking to the more real, how much as much acheh is a potential

because of the wiseriesh and then people about product economy sharia what can be contributed by Aceh Wacana to that has already

started to beaughal while upon even replica the way that which I think this is this is it berbasiskan

and example. the first of the when it's about again again again like we're about how much about the law, the law,

and things, and people are about perbanking sharia. And I think that's one improvement that's interesting. But because the predacatance

it was still model the the way, because of the abacca, the way that'sa, it's been given a man, because this this is a implication

which is a psychology to people, it's a lot of people, this is a khanembourged Islam. So, if it's been resumurkan to Islam,

then the world debate has been more small. So, so, one regulation, the law of the law, yeah.

Now, one of the canun that beaamie by the practice and also the, what,

the, what, the, what, the, what, the, the, the bank of

non-panship Sharia, that, that's not being, in A.C., soinggid so,

the, um, migrations, that's a sub-a-a-usir, so many bank, bank conventional, and all the lembago queuangan that is in Acai, that's not compliance with the principle of sharia that's not going to operate in there. Why?

Yeah, because... I mean, if... I mean, if... ...that, that's non-sharia, which Sharia, that's not-lary. Yeah, right? That's what I'm like that's what I'm, I'm about,

that's aghazan to make sure in a lot of in the way, the model that we have for the plachana charying. That's just good. But, but, there's one of the paraturan

that, I'm, I don't know aspect what that's been didojolk, then then, you know, then givecoucque chaos,

the way of it. So, yeah, the people know, they're not give- can't

the same to, what, to, to try to make-em- and, and,

it's, about, model per-banking- -sari-a, this, bet-be-be- -b-b-b-

-compensional, If you know, if it's the argumental that's not because riba, haram because riba, is it, is it, bank that's not being named the institution, that,

bank sharia, it's to leapsed from practice ribba, it's. The reality is, not, too. The reality,

I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, if we're not, if we're not, if we're rach from bank

sharia, in all the world, not active, or pashifah, it's, it's more than 95%.

It's, there, riba. This, this, isa, in Indonesia, in Malaysia, in Dubai, in London, in the places other than in other than in Indonesia. Sharia financing.

But it's true that, as it's not that, actually, active and pasiva, ineraca, perbanking sharia, it's very kental with riba. Now, that if it's true, why, that non-sharia is there. if it's the abatting, or maybe there's the abattingerating other for structural, for the importance of peningotan in the society,

well. Yeah, if I'm, because maybe, um, jarang so much burrusha with, with, with, with bank,

and per-banked. Yeah. Yeah. But, um, in, in discuseslaman, I think, if I'ma, because of the way of it,

there's, there's al-a-lilna, if we're looking, there's nas'h, there's al-Quaan. First, Allah, it's malarang that, don't make-mackan riba that be more-le-le-lebihan. But, to bea-cull-riba, but a manhah butah ma'amudahra.

Allah, Allah al-ahul-Baharra-Ribah. Allah, it's halal-khal beli and maram can haram-can riba. So, in order, in fact, it's just, that riba, it's haram. Pertanation is, is, is, whether,

is it, riba or not? This, can, there's been a parquetan. It's a big of argument, like that. because, even though, that's called upon,

because in the time this time it's not even, yeah, ribaharm, it's not true, but practic in bank, if that could be categorical haram or not, it's different. And what's made partying by

the society is, is, if back then, bank that that's about from practice that, is that's right. because, you know, because, yeah,

people have been that, the money or, yeah, the, yeah, the money, yeah,

the principle the most that we're being, um, there's, what, resharing.

Yeah, resharing, profit, loss-sharing. There upside, there downside. So it's like that. Soamu.

So there, although, even, they're not even, there's much of mucher. There's musharakha, two, two people, secaligus, to, what, name,

to be banshi, bespacat, saling, be contribut to bekerja, or Moudarabha, one person who can be a model, one who,

mongolah, or what other? Moharab, For the most of the three I think, I'm the most because, what name is, this is the more quick. And that,

and it's usually the sector consumptive, yeah, Pa, yeah. Now, I think we can't even know that there can't beckon that for,

what, yeah, peaceful mind, he'd want, he'd want, and, he's, maybe, or,

or other than that's that's about the way that's important. It's very important. But, but, the problem is, it's not with

the way that or even we can't that it's that it's about the capital capital that's

much more more in the algorithm our people that sometimes, like Asa Baila, it's about it's very, it's interesting to be cached. If at the, uh,

in the abat 21, maybe, the other, now the question is not that. Where the religious, where the over-religious? So, that's two. So,

there's, there's, the life of the people, I think I'm, I'm, what, there's a phenomenon that in Indonesia that's over-religiosity that's also, that's in the life of social media our, because we don't know how we can't even pass nanopatheasia, I'm actually facta in social media

because there's many issues that same as much as we're commentary we're doing. From the side anthropology, how do you think, the phenomenon social media I mean, I've been saying, I've been saying

that polarization percapable to very correlates with existence and source. Now, this will to get to be it's,

where, where, I'm going to be able toas be able to be able to beacques, not looking at handphone again, not yet medsauce again, and then, and then,

and, you know, or this justru will beaulare that, the form of, the, not episodic. Yeah,

for this time this, there, There's not even there's no, I think, I think, with the other people who are

very attentive to have whatever something that's ever instant. I think this is

there problem from from problem of the problem of our people,

to serious, yeah. And again, the, the, what, the name,

the, the same, the most, the same, media this, can, the quickatting. So, he's notwarking,

hal halal-all-all-law-law-law, has had the pihak that's important. Then, they're viral, and then, they're all over, and they're basically sink-s-as-as-a-old. So, what-namb-nation,

only with a lot of, narrate, then, commenter that narrate, then, lusa, or two-hury-commoded, the issue-ne-gant-kind-it-can-it-old. It's, it's not-sepac-sing-sing--cat. that doesn't make people, it's really,

to be around serious, to look at every other angles. Now, yeah, I think, if, if,

if, if, if, if, it's, it's, it's, it,

it will be un- can be a un-reported about, how much interaction we in social media,

and he can, liberation, can, liberation, people, to impuged, people can't evenpacca,

what's just, repos, what's just, consequences'etka, people are people who are people who are quite, there's consequences that's very

for, for the life and the culturean, and sometimes, even, even, it's quite,

consequences that's very, what, um, far as far as, as far as, legal and this, but,

but, that people is, he's nobody, he's nobody, he can't what just to we'll post something like that he'll make sure that he's not like that.

So la-ol-law-law, or, if, if, if, if there's a lot, if there's a lot, can't be given a lot, yeah, just enough, yeah, just with... I see, not remasalakalakable that, shall be upon, it's been opinion

or mayempaikin. But in era pastcha-ke-re-re-be-enaran, And that's really-tieu-that-tie-traphering is feeling-to-le-penteing than the book-impiris. Opin-y-it is more important than,

rather than the can. Yeah, right? Yeah. Now, the more we're j-crum-us to soft-med, or med-sos,

as much more than we can't make sure, even more than more than empirical evidence, or what more than the more than based upon, feeling. Now, this can't beambung

with the way of our own-in-an-kind-out-enchant or monongongonging or the peopleimpinningan that more quality-capital. I'm looking at all the world, this will be more difficult. to make upheumptain or the

the compimpinion. So long we're just, men's, termus in era pastcha, yeah, that's kindal or characteristic with feeling from empirical evidence. Yeah, I, I,

I, I, I, I'm, and, uh, what, yeah. Yeah, in one side, um, what, what, what, what, what, what, that's, that's also

is a question about when we're like that when we can't even that, whether this is a president to other people? Or kind of,

if we're still there, but also can give us a influence that's a different or a way I'm

because, I'm going to be able to there, yeah, I'm going to change how it's not to be a

positive this that's one of the this, this I'm I'm going to because I think I'm

because I'm because I'm not the model podcast like you talk about this, I

think that is a one way because of the media, that's one thing, where the same thing, is the real that's the same thingat or short in Facebook.

Because, this, people now have made up with determination. And how do it be endured, to try to be amoehame, to beaummaiming something. This is a problem. I think, in the problem,

what other than the world of them, because of access to the economy or perjohnia, so, So, so much more than in America, so I'm I'm seeing people who's people who's going to be a group WhatsApp, maybe we've got to be a lot of people in front of, we're not getting invitations at all right, we're doing people in FSI, or at Stanford, this, who are making group WhatsApp.

But in Indonesia, anyone, people who's D-N-N-S-M-A-S-M-A, alumni, S-D-D-S-M-A, who have number I, or we're not, I think, there's kind of, even, maybe,

permission, to, that's, to, move to, right. And we're looking intensities in there, how people are,

they're going to be Evenkart, even though, even though there's a lot of people, but it's not know topic why be better, because the number group's a little bit better, but the person that can't

be, what name, yeah, whatever, saling, be commentar, and stuff, and then we're going to think, yeah,

actually, when it's, what, do you mean by people like that? That's why. There's one There's a group that's

posting 10-20-20-cally in a day. Yeah. I'm being wrong. The work is it can putto-but-but-messing samphashikas.

Maybe, we'll see like how the kota group WhatsApp we've got been put up. Then we're

we delete and we're just sometimes semat them bachan yeah. But, but,

that, there, in the way of people. People, sometimes, sometimes, I'm playing it's a room maya, but this is one thing that's not to try to look at a certain one that's a lot of people.

If, you know, like this, I was, I'm doing, I'm doing the room to watch television. Then you're left people, I'm going to beckon, I'm going to think it.

I think, I'm going to do you, how, when tolevision when, when when when time time, activity other, solat, like that.

But, maybe, people are people, they, they, peg, they,

and, tablet, that, it's, not, that's, that they look,

the, the, the time, they're, even, this, this is, it's,

they're being about, to be brought to where, so, so, even, the,

people, people who's not sadar. And addiction to addictions to getchette this, that's not for a person two that can't make make make sure people, and that's

addictive to be accessed in social media. Oh, many people, and in the room of my family, I'm needluck in several time to

socialization that if we're if we're not going to make up with, you don't peg. Yeah. Now, but I'm not so far aspartan, that's

and it just to prove-itken that this isa lewet, lewet, re-engineering. Yeah, right? Now, I want to ask, what we have to do to do social re-engineering? Agar we're not too tregebuck with era pascha the

if we can't we can't even from from the unit the little from the world yeah I'm sorry I'm

am saying what I'm know what unit that the unit that in life I'm the

family who are the family that the what name what name um um

um motivati my so I'm if I'm if we're if we're we're talking why I'm

yeah to Stamford, because I think, that's the other than the way. That's the way. The other's of my own, it's very hot, very. We're nine of theodara,

so. So, I'm number of from? I'm number four, but the laky-lake-lake-the-part. So I have my kakka-prempore. In-baw-say, to me,

I'm like, I'm like, when I'm from people, they're going to say, from how many moms? That's true type, I said, I'm not, from one-ibu, I'm saying.

And they're making, because we're Muslim, so many, and so many other things. And, yeah, the pola, the people of my

And we needy, for mebeck, what I'm making sure, to be able to continue to, and to turn again, to come back. And, communication that's very, for me, for me, one pola, like we've got taken, that's how, how to re-engineering, actually. This, can, he's been the

can't now, Pola communication from the world, from the internal itself, it's not good, then it's also more than the way

more than we're more than. The society in Indonesia, actually, can't be a example, palan,

this is that not there. Actually, the person is very much, if I'm talking, I'm not,

if I'm, the barometer that is social media, if we're if we're the cendurunganerunerunation, yeah, pa.

Sorenurop, humphom, and humphabuja it's effecting in Indonesia but try if something that's that's a lot of

that can ribuant in there. So, so people actually are with something

that, they're easily move to the people, yeah. So, so much

attentive. Now, the problem now is the There's a lot of the compimpinning our impotent

from the pletanan that we need to we need to we're in this problem in Acheh also

problem sharia this is when we're too much we're too but the role

that's not can't be validations this is this then this is then it's can't

miscelling and the catuance of the So it's like, so much to

re-engineering I think, this is a point in that's important. Yeah, not just we're, what,

what, know, what, know, we're, we're making this we're up, and,

yeah, we're, that's just that. And you did it. You're doing that. Amen. But this,

not not be able to beaucate by one of one oh yeah yeah right I'm not I'm influenced I'm

I'm this jatun it's jacu jim but yeah but yeah that's I mean I can be

the first that's or not luminaries or not from what who has, what I'm, what I'm, what's important, that's important, that's important. But it's important,

Patina, we're going to end up in Papua, Maluku Flores, and other than, which can be able to be able to beckx about what they, what name, their, yeah, the, yeah, the, you know, how they're, making, how they're, making, making sure,

and this, maybe, maybe not not did hear by people of people people who are in the people this is the circle of the people. This is that I think there's a lot.

I mean, I'm sure here this. I'm not, I'm not able to because I'm too, because I'm from there. I'm a person

but identity the Achehan's my is that's actually menculable. And that's the kind of Indonesia. So,

if there are Bali, too, or people, people, people, people. how much

how much more than the case that's the that's just to papua now soing that the problem and the problem like this is

should be taken again, more, more, that's, the pen decatant dialogue, the way

Aceh can then be to make the kata demai and can move on from from from separatism and

and many of the other than what's it's just to do you're in a lot of in the way of paper. So, that's also with, many things that can't, what, name, we can gali from

the people, people who are living, from, maybe the places that not be in the pusat, not in Jawa, that's, it's important I, what,

I mean, that's, I'm, I mean, that's, I'm, that I'm, for our people from the other for what's the NGP. Inchal. You know, you're special

because background that's very unique, 15kilo from Banda Aceh, can be in Palo Alto. Not every person Aceh can do you do do, what you've done?

And, and, gini, if I'm going to make, the people, that that's, the, R&T, R.T, R.A., cabapet, and other,

the other, the other, the other than the school, that's the way of the way that's the way of course, and maximaed and intersectioning intersexes of the new, the intersexes of the life and aspirations from the society-loas, or anyone who they have beenpimping, like in the R. like in the school, R.

Khabitaine, Kota, Mota, and Mawain, like, and other. Now, back to observation you're more than something that's mental that's mental, that's not.

That's upung with observation I also that we're more more than work something based on feeling, not based empirical evidence.

Now, And this is the riskoes is the numbering the capacity to gongedong to the Pembimpinpinioningan that beaumutu to the point. I think for all the world, in several years, it's difficult to us to beulangy

massas, the same as we're ined, like, we've looked, talk, to-tok-tok-sock-sos-sop-sop-to-sos-sperty-Rosevelt, Mahatma Gandhi, Kennedy, and other,

like Lankarno. not gampang. Yeah, right? One of the kanker is Netsos, if I'm in if it's not the socially re-engineer and that, I think,

not only, it's just the discipline or penikaping from the people, from the Kepalah, from the Kepal, RT, RW, but it's also, this is holistic, from policymaker, from politici, and

I'm like, I'm looking at this stress episodic that's quite be able to beckoncute. Cucup not to beabathe but it's but it's a gigihan from one or one

or one clompong yeah, can how, yeah, yeah, yeah, that, um, What I'm, what I'm saying, what I'm saying?

If you're saying, what, what I mean? About what I said? What I said that is easily move, it's going to be, and the things that sentimental, that's, it's, it's a risk of a big,

What other than with with the power-reinchener in the mainzscheer even. We're maybe in a place that's very contextual when we're, when we're saying what's in America,

a country that's very strong-changed, with phenomena one, he's congressmen, Josh Santos. Yes. This isle of the impact that's the most how much the way that's

how they can't beulola perasance of people with the bohongan. He was to be able to can't even make sure like that the clumpo of the right or the clompocanan

and he's really and the and the menangan that he's beenoleg from how he posisical appropriation in the media

in media social actually. This is of course to make sure risk of Indonesia to find people who'mimping

real, real in art meaning what actually what's actually what's in the world modern.

I'm also not be thinking that that like the kind of that's like that's still because of the time

has been changed. It's more so much than we're more so much. Yeah, I mean, we're making people and what, actually,

the work of mupin modern, that. So, if the, the, the, the,

um, the, the, the time we're, actually, based on service, if I think, yeah.

But, but how much he can to do you if they're doing what he has to work Siener what? And, miscellany, it's not a lot of enough.

It's just, it's just mustahil. What can be replicated by people from the people who are people who, the can't beaumptuant that, you know, the ability, is,

the, of thembatch. This is what we're... It's a problem. The problem is. who's, that's... Because the cedulunginging, like I'm saying, likeingat, real, short.

140 characters. 140 characters. So, I don't want that really, menekuny one. That I've learned from anthropology this that's one kata, actually, it,

actually, it's been able to be taken to beacquenic, even, even with one book, even with one kata just. And, And this is that we have, we can't even, we need to be, with model now,

what we're back on, we've got to be able to be that all that's very technical, even in the room that must beagogical, it's very technical, docent, docent, it has to be madeleger on-cad, credit, what, what,

that isuwa that's just as a lot of much of the same, and everything, it's like, yeah, like, what, yeah,

maybe a little melancholy to the before, that what we say, progress, this, not to the more to

to the hancurance. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm that's a work and I'm saying that's what we have you

there's a bit of there's a baron in this but also important to what yeah to be able

to getal so don't don't don't too this because I'm it's

because it's I think I'm a I'm about the people's about the the people about the and I'm going to be it right this, that's the fact that's the action

or did get back in a one of a people who's a man or a mannipinan that that's a part that is acky that's a kind of serendipity

or to be runcungungan and it that's to be a new in a newfound that's not but maybe-tibank, but there's a lot of

combination of all attributes that's important to transformation the country that's from the mishkin, bebeam, and it's made to bemajus quite, the name of Singapore. Conto one, the extreme the extreme

spectrum, that is where in the Nagaa Mawgant, that's Indaugh, but still just up until result of the people who are like the way to make sure in a country miskin or in the country

bekemang. Yeah, right? I don't say to be a lot. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay. Yeah. And it's underage that, But if this isure of the buruntunging,

that's just about so we can't so we can't control, maybe, from all of the variables to make upheapenance that's the in-ingingingan or which bigac-sac-sac-na.

But there are, there, maybe 1%, or 0.1% that we can not control that can't be able that's about the the prophetic or he's a bit more than

state-man. But two-d-doin to be transformative. But if statesman, to, more in context, maybe can be able execu-execution.

But if if prophetic, it's not only able to execute, but he can make-lap quantum leap. Yeah, that And even Liu Kuan Yu is a phenomenon

extraordinary he's a charismatic, but also perhasil to influence the whole society I think that, and hegemoni their, that they were, that they were in

fondation that not, what, name, not, if they're not even if they're not to be a lot of the way to be able to their own

their own agarach with ethnic who's also even though even when dominations that's Chinese Tjonghoa that's just

not a position that I think it's ungoal in the geopolitic we're in Saudi East Asia yeah

yeah we can't, we can't be able to beaes, narrations that we've given by Leikwanda, how much. And in the same-versamman, he also prepared with infrastructure, with data-hook, that's-were-who-lawy this.

There's awareness that's out-boursa from people, to not look at them, that's superior. Problem-negara one-like, this is not-be-la-lejave-old, That's the personal. So they're

so far as a power and then, what, this, being, uh, tregebuck in situation overconfident.

The think of it's, it's not, and this is, it's been proved to, sir, I mean, uh, in the time,

in 2011, in the al-a-a-wal-u-al-relihan from Obama to Trump, I was in America when I was around the way. And I'm going to basis, misis, miscellamap. I'm not looking

phenomena that's too bad with what in Achehe than what is in America, in the whole symbol, in a lot. Many of the people of America that are Republican, even, mobile their,

even, the, bagu of, and the jacket the dresser than the So they're notheras So they're not symbol this that's made them

America That's great Yeah That's Even in Ache Even Bahcan Even before

And Ballyhu Besar in Achea It's make Aceh Great again Maga Ace Yeah Bener

Yeah And And So, And Yeah, And, And,

The Acheyeh, the the redire of the partai the partai, the way of the chat with the color partai. So, what is the one of the campong

that might be detect by PETA with one country adi-Quasa when there, there,

there, there, there, there, there's, over-confidant that superior to be

more better than people than people, that's, that's, that's, it's, typically,

the condition Is it's about how much as well as well as can't be inundasiness? Apaka we can't believe that we're insecure position in Indonesia, that's in the in the world.

Masalya, this, narasiness is always bad, be good, the enemy, the other mussue it, that's in the land.

Not pern't with other people not ever there, there's confrontations that's other than did, Sukarno Lucuan,

little, but that, but that's characteristic for Asiata I'm in the 2,000 years we're relative and stable if we take care of

or the number of the amount or underdashirean or whether it's internal or external not more than 9.5 million human or life. in Europe, in Europe, in the same,

that's about 200 million yawah. From there's it just that we've got seen that Asia-Tengara with population that's not-cala with Europe. Even now, more. It's peaceful

and stable. But that, that, if, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure, to beauerre to to buddhagmatis,

menhine, and harmonis, trantam. But that's not long-lang-long-sung-sacundered principles that's that you're

that's the excellence. Apocca it? Pendidica, health care, welfare, and, and,

line, line. Now, if, you, it's, he can, rammed,

of the formatrous, agarmonist, multi-ethnici, multi-religy, multi-rass, but it also makeshapantan buddhaean, you want to geturunan-in-Dia, Chinese or Malayu, or Eurasian, you have to be an education. Excellence-that-a-a-da.

And that, maybe, It's going to if we look at mantra, narasic perkeembangan or p.A.P., that's three kattahs that's always be the contendant. The first, new competency.

Two, accountability. Three, integrity. That's from chapter a while to chapter the last, three kata that, that's that's that's up-upon and that's

from the other from the from the and it's it's people service quality welfare

quality health care so I'm I'm kind of kind of kind of kind of democration

to semata did definisically in context distribution yoblos. Or this is more holistic. Termasook distribution attribute or

public goods line of the essential. Termsue integrity. Termsumasue. Termsue. There's education. There's a social value. Termasue moral value.

Yeah, right? How about? Yeah. But, but with, what, the point, about,

about violence because I'm not I'm trying to like, about, I have some other about Islam

Islam, I have been Islam, I also, other litigant about the kreasa and,

especially the krasan the Krakashan Nagara. Maybe if we're we can't from the size of the maybe, maybe,

if we're reduction, what what's happening in Asia, dengara, that we're comparation with what's doing by Lenin, or Stalin, or from, or from the, from the world,

the first, the war, the world, Hitler. That's, but, but, but, the decayment that's,

isad, that's done by Polo, Lone, by... That's not over-simplification that. I only want to make sense that in Europe, that's a lot more than that.

No, what I'm going to add. What I'm going to add, is that, the, that we have that Europea is not denial with that.

So, so there's upay to be damay with the last And then they're because there's upay it's the then the law of law

it's what? What's the implication? Singapore, maybe didn't have a story of the kerosaner the other than the problem in

Indonesia is we're because the importance of harmony that that's without sadar we're in the position

people who humanization. What that dehumanization? The humanization that's like, that's like, we know about,

we know, that's like, ask them, the army army general in Indonesia that, who, who ever been part of course,

in Acheh? They know, who's been killed in Aceh, or other people, GAM, how many people people who have

there are, because they're not their name of. Yeah, when we're not memory about it, it's, it's not dehumanization.

We're not to make up, this is humanuania. This is there's been in India, even in Papua now. Now, there's no way to give a pencouan to what was the time

there's not a way to be actually for us, we can't replicate what what is happening, and it's not derulang again. And, without any way of it,

I think, that's the name's we'll put it into question. Singapore, serendipity of Singapore, is they're not having dosa masel. Yeah, that's what. From perspective it,

they're very menang, then, the example that is, it's true, can be munculkan by a person Likwanyu. He can be able to

be munchul as a person, the people who have martabat, and that, even with even, I'm actually

I'm in the time 2019 when I'm in particular the last year in the sameapura I'm my sister of my

the room the same time abrahamah Ibu'u daeuro diRawat so I think I think I'm

who the president of Singapore the shewana, he has been he came to beacunctu to be there. So, kind of we can't

we can't see how the panpilance. Now, this that I don't see in Indonesia in scale rank

whatever, when people who's been being in people who usually, it's difficult to

look, to be able to be able to be people, Now, this, this isosos like this like making making sure that can't be able to make sure that

that they're as a book of the people who amping people who are people who are people. It's very far back. In fact, if I'm like, anthropologist, I can't sell you to look at all the things that more small, how much a person, and by the time even if you're

even if we're even if we're even people who are people who are making people who mean that, that's all the way, that it's not done.

Because why? They're not at the hukum, not because they talk about the country but because they're making that

they can't be to be able to keep, to the country, that. That's a lot, Tuxper, super, taxi in the Rata Rata Rata, people who are very senior. So, we can't see what they're,

what, name, what, yeah, about their, maybe it's hard as well as, if it's hard to beacarcaught with our friends, people who also brought a car car car that'si in Indonesia. which is out of the way. Okay.

I'm going to back again to today we've got to beas with us. How much, you know, to be able to be able reconciliaeasy between buddhae principles with buddha pragmatism

so that's so much yeah, maybe the sameapurah. Yeah, I'm miszahed, I think, there's there

there's, there's that there in the family. Yeah. If you want to be

a country, we have principal. There's there, has to be law enforcement

that is what? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Our country is not a lawless country, but it's not too much the law enforcerer's, just that's the law enforcerer the

that's that we're having a lot. This is that we're going to be. The good is now, there's social media, we also have appreciated, yeah. So, with the other media, it's also, there's a room for the people to to look, that this is a problem, and they're participation in the resoura.

Yeah, this, this, yeah, yeah, that's important, that we're in a country, because the country our country, the country is the country republic,

that's all the people that are same in the had upon the law, and that's, that in the country, we have been using distribution power, so,

so, that a person, miscellal, or a personmanman who, the people, there are some of the company, so the company this so much

the way of the amount of the same, so there's there's a question about how much how much a democracy that can be able to

be able to. Yeah, upahas that the most important. And, the society is the right now. Ha, and quagibance

too, that's just. The problem in our, it's not. The right. The fact is. The right.

It's right. Yeah. That's. But... It's the... So, yeah. So, in America, I think,

every there's a biggapal even... Donald Ramaja, man, gollof, is that one America because they're taxpayers, that.

Now, how people Indonesia, is not too attentive with the people people in the people

in fact, because of people in America not because, in two days, yeah,

I'm, I'm going Bacaa some social media, there's there's a lot of people. But, jow, jow, jow, I think, a little people who are being about that the money in the control of the country really,

many be able from what, what, you know, people don't know, they're, like, they don't have, or, they're not a person, so, they're not paying the country, but they don't pay for a part of, when they buy gulah or they buy

that's the price, it's $10,000, but then the price of the $14,000, because there's a tax, why there's a taxed, there's money that. The money is, the money, this, the public service,

and, etc., that, didgelankan. So, really, everyone, were contributribusy for, um, um, anga-nagra.

But, yeah, So, yeah, you know that that's about, because he's not a good, or he could be partisivation, make sure, make sure, and,

yeah, because, yeah, blackangan, we, we, we, we know, we, there one, two,

swara, about, I'm, with, how much, and, But if we can't better, bethue of the way of democracy,

and people have always, yeah, all have been making a lot of people who are the same. So, the it's the fact that we've got taken that this is a good thing, it's really not difficult if people are even from the detain of the same,

that there's not even a crusader in here. This is a quixiebant to be able to be it, we have we have we have we're about we're we're we're looking at least the lookis yeah lookisan which in context of what kind of thing in whatever whatever maybe the most derisdalen the context of how the lawcum sharia in Acheh, that can be can't be reconciliae with process democratization.

Not only in Achefe, but in Indonesia in a whole lot. If you're optimistic, if I'm for being sure, optimistic, like, for example,

there's a expacaten in the people of Aceh to see that that's sharia that is, yeah, first, what's going to be in sharia. In the sharia, it,

there's also, there's a reason why sharia that it has been a part of absent in many discussions in there. So, people, like, mis-assumcings it, is a huckuman,

but not, not a human. Then, then, If in many of the classic, and contemporary, that's many that can't make, even in the case of the situation, between state and society.

Because it's really, it's been a lot, the life, the people. And they're not even being amalgam it is, long as abat-abat. When it's, for, for, by the the country,

the country also must be able to the same that's about something that it's also very much in the

literature to Islaman it and how how much then the people can't again can't

be able rucut to what what the that's that the that's that's

not, not, not, not, The other than what I'm the, what I'm the, what I'm the, what I'm saying, the, what I'm saying, the, you know, the, what I'm going to, what, whatever, if it's, because Acheh, it's, because, because, it's a majora, that's that's being model, it's just to be able to, that's, it's not toinjewanue, what

name's cycle because this is something that's to be used to be surendipity that, the samepatches, that maybe not be able to the area other. Many people who are other people who have

to beacquy that they have to make up, have to dolan can share-hac, which, not, them have it.

And, how, how then, it can be to make up one dimension that can be So it's the

Somebe'allant Some of the last I think there, I don't know, this because this is still new, so there's a rector that, that

that's somepac also making a little goncang when in the when I'm saying that Islam

gag, has been gagged. But he'll when he's not just make sure, now, I mean

to give one example, that the campus that can't beinatura in the same thing in the same. But how much the way of the way to make sure that's a little bit more than how much of the way, the way, about adab, al-adamu-vocal, al-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-tut-cata, about, conto, cheladans, all that,

that's all that of it, on the attention. Then, how much, how much of the how much of the beauty of Islam that's really that's really. For example, representation Islam in America, it's not not Sheikh, not Habib, this is Muhammad Ali, even a person person.

When we're talking about Muhammad Ali, people, you know, people have a lot of America. Or in the world that's more than, Habib, who's wrestling, or team sepacobola Maruku, like the past. So, not-mulhu, it's always, from basis-one, an organization-agama, institutions of agama. DJ Khalid?

Yeah, I mean, But actually people, they're really the same in promote Islam with all the latter blackar behind he's miliqa asal he setia with what actually

did gettacan by Islam this. Now, this has got a lot more than than then, symbol, symbol. And I think, now, what,

what is there, I have been given to be Islam that's very ... even has been even bigotard that's been bigali but manuscript

in Acai, that's also, that's a lot of course. Now, the thing is to be given prioritization. This will be

very important the world, how much the condition or how much the Khazana Islaman that in Aceh.

Begitu also with, let'sel per-economian Islam. Per-economy Islam what's what's that's really, that's really

that's about trust and motivation and also the way of to make making a perception economy that I'm a better

I think we're maybe even too much about babbac blur with bank conventional but don't then perbanking sharia

that just gantyana but it's using the pola that we want to make up, the world of the carap. So, and ushaha'iourn't

because, but to be able to beainginan to really, and I think with model that we said we said, with the culture social media our that, which isingot, not want to be,

sungu, to be sure, which, which, which, which, literature that's like, it's like,

like this, fat, and then he'll hang again, then he'll be used over the same. But if Acheh want to beerack to a way, that's

we think, this can be a lot of, and, and it's important to, um, to, um,

to make the image about, the other, yeah, like, which is the people, by the people so long as well as well as much

people in media. And, miscellar, like, in one side of the wayjah Islam in Indonesia, it's different than Islam in the Temortengal. But then, phenomenonan, why, Indonesia is it like, like, A.C.,

although, then, as I've got it again, that's not the same with what what, what's about, be able to bea, so much. So, so I'm not sure. So,

that, if I'm, there's a rector that's about about it, it's not, this can be booktickan, and then there's a lot of

that there's a potency that we have got a there's aer-dipity situation and the other than the area other

so that we have why not we can't we make it to make it to be a phenomenal which can

give uswatinhasana if we're using the language one way for the world. Wow, we

doign the great. Thank you for everyone. Thank you Loweza Yeah. Sama,

same, we're. Tema, that's Rézaidria, fellow from NUS, Stanford. Thank you.

This is the endgame. I'mauntip, I enjoyed it a lot.