Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Ryan Filbert: Berinvestasi Perlu Literasi Finansial

Episode Date: July 21, 2021

Belajar dari pengalamannya, praktisi dan inspirator investasi Ryan Filbert melihat pentingnya literasi finansial dan inklusi dalam mewujudkan lingkungan investasi yang positif di Indonesia. Ryan Filbert adalah praktisi pasar modal di Indonesia yang mendapatkan penghargaan tokoh inspiratif pasar modal di tahun 2017. Selain menjadi praktisi pasar modal, Ryan Filbert aktif mendorong perkembangan UMKM di Indonesia melalui teknologi P2P. Sejak 2012, Ryan telah menerbitkan buku-buku bertema investasi seperti “Investasi Saham a la Swing Trader Dunia”, “Yuk, Belajar Nabung Saham”, dan “Investor Blueprint”. Sebuah kolaborasi dengan PT Octa Investama Berjangka, untuk Indonesia yang merdeka finansial dan berani berinvestasi. Klik dan join OctaID: https://bit.ly/Octa_Investama_Forex_Broker Gabung bersama OctaID dan Ryan Filbert di Telegram Official Channel: https://bit.ly/Telegram_Octa_Investama Ryan Filbert: https://bit.ly/RF_Channel_YouTube About Endgame: Endgame adalah talkshow dan podcast terbaru yang mengajak kamu mengeksplor lebih jauh tentang sudut pandang tokoh-tokoh yang membentuk narasi hari ini dan masa depan. Sebuah kolaborasi antara SGPP Indonesia dan Visinema Pictures. ---------------  DISCLAIMER  ---------------  Informasi yang termuat dalam video ini bersifat umum, tanpa memperhitungkan keadaan, kebutuhan, atau tujuan Anda. Anda harus mempertimbangkan kelayakan saran, prediksi atau informasi lain di sini untuk situasi pribadi Anda. Jika ragu, Anda harus mencari nasihat profesional independen. School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia dan Visinema Pictures tidak bertanggung jawab atas keakuratan atau kelengkapan informasi apa pun yang terkandung di video ini. Selain itu, setiap informasi pihak ketiga yang disampaikan dalam acara Endgame tidak mencerminkan pandangan School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia, Visinema Pictures, atau anak perusahaan. atau afiliasi dari dua entitas tersebut. Semua investasi melibatkan risiko. Kinerja masa lalu tidak menjamin hasil atau keuntungan di masa mendatang. Kami mendorong tanggung jawab pribadi dan meminta Anda untuk selalu mempertimbangkan risiko yang ada. Layanan Octa diatur oleh Badan Pengawas Perdagangan Berjangka Komoditi (BAPPEBTI), dengan nomor lisensi: 54/BAPPEBTI/SI/05/2013.

People who can't understand about investations, be able to be able to beaughan their, where, where people who don't understand their, they're, I'm just, I'm not a biggiana,

so, so, that's not too not-cococed with culture that there. Terely. Trague. Yeah.

This is Endgame. Hello, Hello, my friends, today we're at the time Philbert, inspirator and a packer for investations. Ryan, thank you. Can you come to our acara our time? Same, sir.

I'm thank you, can't here. Tell you, what's the life you, what's life, where, where, and where, and then, can,

come to this, so, so, I'm, I was in Jakarta. And then I was in the right in Islanda Nagara, which is in Santa Maria Janda. Okay.

Lowe. In the back of the back? Yeah, in the back, yeah, yeah, right, right, right, right, then I'm going to the PINABK-PNabur. And then I was to the school as the same-oingtae my parents'a-toe.

I'm a faculty, and design Trisakti, in 2004. Wow. Why? Why? Why? Why? So, my father is a person personeman, yeah.

He's like with the world photography, and at the massan when, when analog, is like, so much, like, so much, so that is something that is a thing that's not much to do with everyone. Because if there's a

perception of the until, without making the documentation, so that's. So, my father is a professional photographer, I'm saying I'd like and then just can't do you. And, I'm trying to know, but the problem is,

but the problem is, because... SEMUTTOPH, if he's like doing for doing photography, or if, if there's reception in GEDUUUU, it's like to, like, I mean, actually,

I like the world exact, I like, like, math, physics, chemistry, chemistry, and even, and even in the time crisis, in 2008, that I was, I'm from the market model, kind of dropped, yeah, then I was, I'm going to school,

because I'm, because, I'm just like with the universe exact, that's, so that I'm being the school, you know, yeah, well, the patualangue is because I, and then first day in the first day, I know I'm not sure that's the first year-in'

the first, the classarant is, the story of the same-roupa. Mati, I'm at the school, the class of the story that's the most-posed, so, oh, do you, and so, I'm at least, there's more in the more in the campus than in the campus.

So, every time jata absente I'm still, I'm just sure, the roxymas, Dagh, ma. Okay. Like that's like that. I'm like that's about in 2004. How can survive in college, if class that's that's

that's about about with your and that's okay. That's it. I just through, sometimes, I like to end in seminar or whatever. This is a person that I've

said that's more more than, when we're the same that's a wrong jurors. We have to be able to doze it. Because many people who, at least, they're always,

they're going to be the last I'm not going, I'm because I'm not so. That, I think, I can't because at that the way that's the I'm going to be in technique chemia,

that's already, that's been, but because of the PAPA, I'm going, still, but it's still, not even from the first from out, but not just to go back.

But what I can tell you to many people who are still more more than I'm still more than I, there's a way to we can make a while and there's also that is a question, do, not,

to come in school, sorry, if I'm not in a surrogeneer, sir, sir, I don't know how to actifes my right right. I can't right back,

we can, exactly, I'm just like with mathematics, but I can't can't be active kind of creativity I'm maybe because of the that's why it's, maybe, there's, many people who can't can't write book as much that,

18 judul, emma, not did not there, there's not there, there's a lot of, there's things that negative, I said, no, not,

So, as long as we've got to recal to back, so that people other can understand what we're making what we're making. So that's a lot of the time I've got when I'm at the last and I'll finish it, though, with a different strategy, if I, if I, if I'm not just, I'm going to help my friend's at the end, I'm not in the way,

not the I'm not for the other three, three-com-four, can, it's not for the way. Like that's like that. But what, what is, you know, you know, you know, do you know, usually, people who's like to

make a book, right, I'm going to actually, so, so, so, I'm just,

when I was talking to with driver, but, but I'm like, people, so I'm

getting to get to get But when I was, I was from the world of investasic, because I got the money from the other than the other than I'd like in 2004, I've already had a new-dagang online, I'm going to deposito, but I'm not quite. I'm going to know it with the world investations, from the right, not really, not really,

well, if people are, first, how, that's more, it's more, it's more, you know, in the machine to try, and then I'm seeing that, From there's that I, why there's someone who says, "'Ah, bye, why can't go? "'Why, why can't go up?'

"'Yes, even when we're learning to learn "'that's garring it, we're going to be, "'that's just a' just a single, we're just. "'But I'm just to get a bit, "'for I'm trying to understand. "'Because I also said, "'that many people that have "'that not everyone who are not everyone

"'not everything that didn't get to the money. "'Lebably people who don't know "'earned to-o-wanger. many people who have even phobia-angued. Lama's right, why, if they're not even if you can't make money, then, usually, inattue of the money, more than than that's the time.

So, that's the time. So, I've got from triple-minority. One, not have money, because the money from the dagang. The second, is not have a little, because of the sergeant has near up. And the third, I don't have to, My father's my man.

When I was a booker-saham, when, if I'd like a-abreg-abre, for a sub-a-brette-cucing, because it's a big, because it's a big time. We didn't know that we didn't get-garet, that's hard, recadana, mahal,

book options in U.S. market, that's $10,000, you know, that's back with, about about about the daddy, my dad, my, so I'm going to, Now I'm going to do. How much do you dole?

I said, I'm just sure to do you want to sell you. I said, Tanta, you're bankrupt from the shahang. So that's a place of jude. So, because of all that's about that about that. No, I said, I'm going to, so I'm going to come from

where my father's just if not investation that's not the not, buy them, why come to the I'm run-out-and-it-you-you-cuit. I'm not really, I'm like that." So I'm from the family like that.

So, yeah, of rest, there's not there's not a support financial. Colot. TANPANGHAM. So if you're not, if you're all, you know, I've got to be the job and I've got, I've got to be,

when I'm going to bea-uping that's up. What I'm going to bea-bursed, that's, that's used, that's, that's, what, what you're first you buy? So... So... So...

If in Indonesia, I'm first time, yeah, but there's not no matter, but... Don't say to be good or a good or a ruggie? Ruggie, pa. Ruggie, pa. How long do you? One day, sir, sir. Yeah, we can, we can not get-gertie,

because the problem is, when we've got to work the stocking of the stock, the other thing is the deposit from where, Where is where? Because it's not going to go to where? We're going to rexadana. Right's the other thanes of the market is a lot. Every product is a lot.

I want to buy a recadana, when we come to a supermarket of rexedadana, the market has $50, like, which is one that's good, and why it's good, and why it's it. Same, so I actually, the money-same-the-a-bub-bub-baw-mang-sug-mang-sue with the other than what's because of the

because of the more than the more than the more than people, or when the day, it's going to be, when I was the day I'm going to be, it's, it, it, is the dividend come, so. So, there, so the first,

the one, the other, if, come, come, here, we're, we're, we're,

So, what's what? That's what I'm going to say, that's when I'm learning. Okay. This, this is we're going to talk about the importance of the thinking or polo-pickiricier that divergent. You have background, senirupus, because of the permaczaan.

But, it's more like the empiric. Yeah, right? But it's more luas, your wawasan your, If I'm not only for correlations, with kithuania now, not only for you know-noticed, but to give an advocation, can? Why, that's not?

Nambung, right? Yeah, so, what, yeah? When I'm, when I'm, Raine, people would be people who are gonna beaughan for three-and-a-talluropa? Yeah. I said, no, I said. I said, I've learned with a good at that,

that's that's been with the other than the other than the other than the can't crisis, every-kis, never learned from crisis before and never know must have done what the time when the crisis?

Yeah. Yeah. I'm Ryan, I've never made a crisis two-kally, but I'm going to know what, but I'm not getting up, because of the house I'm at the door I'm looking at the dark,

the right of the fire, and then in the front of my, there's one who's got to golly jarrhan, but I'm not really. But I'm not really what I'm in 2008, I'm trapped at a high and didn't have money again. So I'm going to work, sir. Usia 22, yeah?

Yeah. Okay. I was in 2008, it was because for the money because it's in the because of the last. And I'd already from 2004 to 2008, trading for living, I'm trading.

I trading, I'm going to get it, un-uncted, sir, sir. So, while it's not know to where, the number. So, when I'm going to be about,

I'm saying, why I'm not. Because I've only because I've only, but when I try look 98, I look at the 90, 1990, I looked at 1972, in the 2009-80s, I'm

moving to 90s, and I even learned from Do Jones Industrial Average and Standard and Poor, from 1800s. I became so I'm, that, But it's really comes from something that's that's up with a big thing. And there's speculation. Speculation is to unhoccur can't the ten of per-economian. Because of a lot of being huthangued,

and is with a pachsa. Who will be a pomeinvestation? And that's still have been investasies. And that's still have money when the crisis is there. So in 2008-to-22, I've already, I've already, So there's many people that, in the era we know, we're not sadder, in 2020 to 2021, there's a certain turbulence to the

and there's a lot of money. That's because he never ever melewet the crisis, or because he never learn from crisis and didn't learn from history. And I'm in Sarajanamupe that, can really be ajarra that,

there's a design of communication visual. We're in there, is to be called on the technology handphone, handpone it's from the big, it's been the small, from the touchscreen, it's being a keyboard, it's the time it's the screen as the screen

that today is. And, who can be leading in the leading in the front-satter, or how how to create trend-satter? Or how to create a trend? That I learned, and I think that's a correlation the right right.

Right, right, the right, in the world of the world, can, but we're trying to start with the same time when time when there's

because there demand and supply, that there un-predictable things and there invisible hands at that, random work. That's that

that's not that I'm that I'm I'm not in the world, this, creativity. Yeah, good, I'm good. I'm just too. And back to 2008,

you're, that's not the wrong of my, and it's really, one of a group, or a group, on the wall street, who are, aback, securities,

with a scale that not not as much back-as-ac-a-cal-a-cal and that, the more than the United States. But that's hickmahsia for the world investations. But I'm trying to try, since 2008, this can do you can do that

many plongarant quantitative by, not only America, but in the other countries, major, and the other, this is there's positive there, there not-nagerness. The positive is, that's probably who are playing in the market model,

it's beckhackhally. Yeah. Because that's there's blimpah limpahedness. Negotivness, maybe, that there's still many people who are not in-berkahi. Yeah. They're in sectorial, who's not get-edat-a-eat-a-huh.

Now, that's how, you know, So there's a lot of the capital that, actually, there's one that there's a gap. The logic is that when the industry is maju, the price of the same thing is called fair value. Logic. What's not logic is, is that if the

the price of the same it's up with a quick. But, it's not to where, not to where, the kind of the quantitative issue is, it's kind of, if people in a country that more than more than more to spend,

people are going to spending. And, also, there's a better with a number of people. So, I try correlations, that I've learned, yeah,

yeah, the other people who have made people who, I've got to have literacy that's that's really, it's being in America that's the same capital market

like that's the way that's the way so from me, for the country like Indonesia, it's because it's a rebutan by many people. It's because there there's a number of pangs that's not reletraiser with

bad, the market model is still 50-50 with people people who's investing, who's also from from from the other than the other than we can make up to make up to make up quay.

So if we're like in the past America, that's in a state of a tenue. And if we are in Indonesia, if we're not if we're not in taking the position,

we're, we're back again, we're just in sector real that we're not we can't make up the in the world of the world.

Infer, how do you think about, the process of the ploporied? You've already known how about, 17-18-buckoo, right? It's very correlations, like, with the peningatation, yeah, right? And we can argue,

that the PENINGATAN activity in the market in the pastor-modal, this, cantalance with what you're doing what you've done. But, to the other, Yeah, uh,

I'm going to the authorities of the government, I've got to be able to COVID, I'm going to be able to socialization with them. Uh, the level of the people, the people in Indonesia is very low. So, so it's because they, sometimes, can't do something just with the model of the other. And this is going to be a bit more than

It's not very. That's the first. The second, if you're about book of the book I've already written about the book that I've already there are 18th of the book, I'm going to be there two again, so much.

Wow. There, there's one one thing. Because, for example, I have one book, the title of you, you'll be able to learn, nabung-sahm.

But, the book that's not success if there's no longer than the SRO's from the from the people that's the way that's more than than the book that's more than because the campaign that not did by Siraihan, but there's one campaign that

that's that's got to be what I know in Indonesia from what I also from what I've also that people who who are about about about their conversation with their

Where where people who don't know, I'm not too, I'm not the big of the bigot, "'I'm not'a' inflation, what? "'Innovation, inflation, oh, "'udu, innovation, inflation, "'pulling. "'So, the language that's used "'tel too not-cocococcur the culture that there.

"'Terlough too changi. "'Now, we're being people who "'emeducation, like I, "'I, in writing a book, in making-bout-libration, "'sebis-muching-hindarie-hindarie "'wean't even words that's the people who are people who are the people who are more than more than than

more than what's the other than when he's a certain that's the same that's just the way, he can be able to be, so if I'm learning learning, from from Saba'am-Samper-Meroke to get socialization, but gaping is a far,

Wow. And, it's just really, even to one, it's not can't make a bit of the same and medeposito. So, when it's where deposit,

and to buy a some of my business my. This is, trying to do something that can't be addu, if one, one,

one, as well as a number of which one investations we never know, business is my, I don't know business's what, and I'm being asked be a pedantapat. Why can't be, because

the basis of the under the Getsd, we don't do you, we're not from S. We're not from S. We're not being re-enchanting so much, it's a-tibbe, and then come in S&P,

and it's aphalance is a sub-sahmoney-as-a-sahsahs. The market is a place where the marketer, sohap. So, hafal, it's made too late in literacy. Because I also got a schimpe, so I know what the materially,

that's what, that's what, if we're going to study of casus, if we're going to go to to the co-bucco-a-a-o-a-o-o-oan, about the money, all came from Korea, so when today Korea... In the book comic,

in comic, wow. So, when, in today, Korea, it's really, it's really, from the drama

to, with, in the speed, sacki, we, got to gettri, Warnow, ma'am,

that's because they're investasic can something from their children of their kids. We're...

We're from... ...iturned that, that, that, that's, So if I'm, you can't say, I'm trying to sharing, to the same.

But I'm more about how much how to build the generations that more than the older than S&P, the kids of S&P. If my son, from the usia five-tawn, it's already to be it, back. So, at my own time

first time with Bitcoin in 2017, My son's even though, but the words of the bitcoin in the mouth that is something that's very much that's a bit more than what I'm if he's about he doesn't even though he's not but the other than the other

but if I, I'm just know Kuli, that's what is what is how can't explain concept or kind of like innovation and inflation

to the people in Indonesia? Now, if inflation, why, yeah. Sometimes, sometimes, it's not right, but they're made to sadder. Inflation is a condition that there are perampok that can come to your home but, but, if you're not an innovation?

Is it? Is it something that you don't think about, but other can do more? Why can be that? Oh, yeah, because they're doing something that you're not going to get. There's a new that they're doing that you're not know,

that you know what's what? This is we're going to bea or phenomena where the stu-bunah that's still and if we're

think we're demography, the of the in the data, the amount of

that is being that's but the amount, to be investasicate, or class asset, it's finite. So in the lawyca, the cucked bunga, it's going to be down and the cost of money, that's more because the money

but the money, but the asset that's it's just that's just the other the money and asset, that is cost of money, or cost of capital. This is actually, ... ...to-theirondial,

... to the 10, 20, 30, 30, 20, 30, down to the end, this will be able to be able to beaure... ...macket... ...semacin more to make upal, don't, to do it's investation in the same as I'mo-boong. ...bunggunga cumpurred. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Is it can be a part of the process of education? Yeah, in two mingue that last, I was a KSPM, so at the GASMMM who's going to end up to say. I just say that there's one that's one that can't make sure that's a matter that one that's not a thing that's a thing. I said, I'm going to be it.

The name's, the right and wrong, on one of the one of the other one that, can be a different. Conto, if at this I said, I said, I'll tell them to write in repati post. Salah. Why?

Well, the other, oh, they've already, there's one condition in a certain-one-warkturturturt's true, that's been brought to in a certain of the other, it's not efficient. Because there's innovation that's new, and, same with bribal of money,

and reinvestation. If we talk like in the 20, the year, of the years, how much of the amount of that? Oh, 10-and-rata. It's different. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, when we're taking to to the other conditions that's similar like you're talking the best way to get the same repatri post. Deposito is like merpati post.

And it's becoming more than 10 years of this, you're talking about maybe, maybe, maybe, I'm going to

ask you, I'm not having to my son. If I'm notepati post, where I can't even, I can't even, I can't even if I'm not even but if I'm gonna'n't get in a while if you're gonna'p'n't get to get up to come.

I can't tell you to my son, I'm trying to try, I'm trying to try. This, like this, I said. There's a time that I'm back back to bring me up against me So, that's going to be. So if you, I said,

I'm thinking tabungan and deposito, it's a lot of the era you're like you're using merpati post and also, and then you're using the mail and WhatsApp. Oh, how much of the way to be it with the itonging? Okay, let's let's go the kuku-bunach,

the company-simpanan in 15-tawn. For the for the pruduance, try to be hito, you're happy, if you're going to get if we're going to get back, we're not able to look until we're going to be

the time, we're going to have been doing to come, until today, and we're not happy, but now we're taking back, we're, we're investations 15 years ago,

you name it, I said, what you know it, I'm going to what? I want, I'm , I'm, myself, If you can't even if you're more than what's more than what's in the most the way to be able to be able to be it,

because it's why can be it, why I'm saying, because there's an issue investation, where investsasic is something that can give something exponential, but, it's not it can't be able to can't be able to be able.

Now, the people in Indonesia, who's like to find that's what's on the basis of the pasty, that's, they're, they're going to, one, the, to abal-abal, because only abal and tabungan

that can make them give them such as much. But if the suco, this is, down to be in a systematismic. Yes. So, in fact,

the right, the right, why, this is, why, this is why I'm going to beaugh. Okay, sir, I know. But, but I'm opinion my, because I'm

in industry fintech. This is not this is the existence per-banked or bank, but it's more related to business model of bank or per-banked. Right.

So, so from I'm from about about about about about about about it, how they're making money, not even about about about about about people who are making up and there if there's going to be there.

There, or, they, actually, they, so, I think, I'd like

to be debitur to the because, because of the people, think two times. Mere two times. Mere two k'an.

to the same as well. Right. And if in bank, in the bank, I think, is services they're because they're not making the value of the business bank to be able to

back. And it's also to be a problem and it's also that's what who will do in 20-town- -lety-and-lety-

that is a macklick not we can't be able to make a time on the name of the company's He did that 20 years ago. But if there's bank that,

that's about the bank, that's 20 years ago, yeah. Sosa. You're not. It's all right, right. If we look,

if we're seeing per-banking to the P. This is this is below 50%. If we look ratio capitalization of the

model, the other P. It's still in below 50%. This is This is not okay, the ratio that are in the countries or per-economian that's much,

that ratio is the ratio of 100%. Yeah. What you're doing, it's very menopang the importance to make the ratio to the ratio to be. Agapal if we're going to be a modern, economy modern, yeah, ratio it has to be at 100%, right?

How, so, to the different, so, not only literati that literacy that's doing, but the other that's the ratio capitalization the past are the PDB, the bankers, it can be able to be 100%. Yeah.

Because I'm also in industry fintech, and I also, and I also, I'm also, and I want to learn that that, sometimes, in Indonesia, I, in, I, per-present,

it's, to be around, not, with inclusion. But the inclusion that's end, ultimately, to dilitraise also what's going to do get to be in the other. In our country,

it's sometimes, overprotection, the way that's so hard to start invests. There are from coming, need investations,

and it's very difficult and very long. And it's it's, it's, because there's what's the CYC.

After QYC, there's also the problem is anti-terrorism, APPT, and other things and other, desodorking in front. It's made investations a sparrow when you get 10%, that's the first, that's the first.

So, if we're going to talk about, I'm in the world of the I'm not doing education, I'm in the but in the other people who are who are more good, inclusions even though, while while there's people

who are from literati, and then go to go to inclusion. That's the should be it's, it's, it's a little, then try product investsation. Ibaratner, then to be able to go to the

The problem in the industry, that's the most the most of the first then they're just being being used to be used and there's a matter when it's a matter that's a lot,

if people who are book a reckoning-saham that, yeah, right, right, but it's not so much much much it's just that, that's one.

But, but it's a better has been with industries in the derivative, sir. Forks. In the industry forex, it's much more than it's much more than it's much this is not to learn so much rungin'n't.

So, it's rame. If we're going to the cryptocurrency, why, in four years the last, cryptocurrency can be able to get a number of investors that's not as much as a bussafek Indonesia, it's because it's as hard as it's in cryptocurrency. So we have to learn from use case.

If we're in front, it's going to get in the end, if we're longar in the front, but it's, it's being being in this, it's to be able to give education. So if I'm from from, And I think that's the way in Indonesia

in the way that's like that. I'ma-hm, there's one thing that's structural. We're going to what in what what's in what, there's a better that's the money breeder. Yeah.

Yeah, right? In economy, there's M0, M1 or M2. If we look M2 our ratio ratio to the P.D.b. That's also even 50%. It's in a structure of substructural, it's about capacity that's all that's important,

to make an end up to make the dynamism in the pastor-modal, or even in per-banking, yeah, not be able to be too quick. If, if, even,

the money-breder-the-the-cathed to be able to where the ratio of the BEDA that's at 100% percent. Yeah. Now, that's one thing that's we have to put in, or if you can,

it's about, if you can, dis-sikaping. Yeah, right, right. Now, to make up redar, that we can do two things. Two things. One, we're from the world. Nautawe.

Nameda-a-uadashin. Or two. Chetak, uh, exactly. Okay. How do you? Yeah. I'm like, from from from from from from from, I'm from from from from, I'm from from from,

I'm from from from, I'm from from from from from, because we're from from from from from from, because we're here, but if we're from from America, that's always making quantitative easing, that is the way of law-longar that is done. And, the biggackan-longar,

it's, if in America, because literations is good, people are in investasies, but sector real-ne-the-the-cincter-enpangangangant. Because of the people in there, if they're not the... What's the... What is, he'd buy a caraping, he... Yeah.

...they buy a sharemobile. So, it's just the market. In Indonesia, I've still... ...and this is a bit of... ...and it's a divergency between the market model in there and sectorial in there. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. ...apal like, it's... ...that's like, in 2020, you, yeah. That, that's... I'm not know where, because it's over-valuasion, because the concept of their

is to look at the vision to the future. If in Indonesia, in, I think I, don't even be done done in particular, for the penanman model, we're more, correct me, I'm wrong, yeah,

Bah, yeah, yeah, with infra-infra that's been being invested by the other-n-negris. But if, from the name, the biggackan-o-wong-breder, like that's up, it's like that.

Well, but not even though. Well. Yeah, no, no. No, no. But, I think, we have to be able to that, that's structural,

this is a seterbatasan. Okay. Yeah, right? We have mission to make integration, inclusion, to go, to-gobrol 24-jams

and, but if the money better, not. But it's finite, yeah, right, right? And that's, if I think I think that's it, I think that's going to be able to get up to 100% of the PDB,

it's very that can be that's really, the first, inclusion of the money, the two, yeah, the ability, and what's the time

pandemic, the first, What is to be able to make up and the money for the money for the production, the supply side will automatically be it. Yeah, yeah, right. Now, the better than we with the countries and in the

major in the country, this, if we talk about liquidity, it's, there is, there, $100 trillion dollars that's that's been redar the money the M2s in the

negara, the next that's they're going to even even the money to no-pang-saham anything to

make, so that maybe Dow Jones will be 40,000 from 33,000, NASDAQ will be to 20,000, from 13, 14,000. Yeah, right?

Now, this, But how, if I'm not going to be reader, that's if, in my think I'm pretty systemic. Yeah, so if I'm in the world of the market model, what I see, from Indonesia, the problem is investor's. The other, is the product also, because in Indonesia, if we look at the jubla emit-in, and we totaled all of capitalization in the past our

market-calf, then if we look at one side, that's a small-shappleization all of the market-cap to Apple. It's only 50% of market-cap to Apple. It's, it's not a product we're not so we can't not can't make up a pilihan people.

And from, from my, from my, from I, I'm that there's a share that's that's actually that's like to investings can, but there's a share that's just like to trading-can. And, yeah, the product is also, like, you know, that's the other people also

to be more than, at least we're talking about if we're going to not have any of the money to be reinvestation, that's right, so, right. I'm going to ask,

if you're going to give an advocacy, that is there ish desireability to get with sectors, sector, sector, you're more like to cex or the same tax, or some of the same tambang, or some property, or some of the FMCG, or some of whatever, is,

or you can, you know, or you can be neutral, like, I'm, I know, but, can, public, man, like, I was always as a educator. I always said that I always say that I'm being about I'm talking, it's actually I'm trying to make up

minate someone to what he wants, not at us. I can't just bellae of being able to bella-dry. There are people who, because of the ungulinguola of the other, but there's people who, No, no one has to take, I don't know if I'm going to take hand, you have to take it.

So what I'm doing, I'm giving up education money-investation. So I'm not even though but I'll know that there's a lot. If you can't buy a share, because it's a small, buy them money, Reksa-dana.

Rekadana is two. Want to go to aliran or long? The conventional, people say, which is modern, people are rexed-dra-dra-daintinged, from these just are being back-buttal-bund equity

is bid index. Reksa-d-dand-index, mutual fund index is follow index. But I can't give justification which one more because, because two-douan-and-a-lunds and the lemulahan.

So I'm trying to not bias. Not, it's not-arting there's sisi-subjective. But if I'm, I'm not so much, I'm going to know the investment, I'm going to say, I'm going to be a year. I'm going to be.

If you're in the time, Ryan, that's in a very in, Ryan, it's in a very, so when there's a $100% with investations, can't let's have to make-macksa, make the capital market.

So how is the proportion? Because Ryan is conservative today, 70% I'm going to grow stock, that's more than 20 years has that crisis has got to get in the case of the G's G's G's good, didn't even get into this and it,

and that, the direction, 70%, 30% that's lebor. The same, which is just start-up and other, and then, then, we're going to say, then. Then, if I'm going to 100%

to all instruments, I'm saying, I'm in 50, 50, that's in equity, and other than the high-risk sector, 50% more than 50% percent, and property, and the hedging. So, it's not going to be, because I don't want to be, because I don't want to think that that is right.

Because, the right and wrong in investsasies is, even from our own we're from our own, we're getting what we buy, and we commit what we buy. we buy. We don't want to buy the same if we buy the best if we buy the best, and when we're going to we still to buy.

Because I'm from the history also. I'm just a good. If there are not people who are sobeled with buying amass, if there are people who are in the price of the next to 2014 but if they still if they still amel in

with fluctuation, the amount of luptuous to to the other than in 2020 to Now, why can't be like that? Because he's been investsati, and commit investsation in the market. So, factors that I encourage to people when I'm going to investsasies.

If you're going to ask you, Rhein today, I can't say, oh, yeah, 100%, you just, to just, to the shams kucing kore, that's small, small, small, volatile, the big.

Yeah, when I was 18 years, when I was not having a tawed if I'm still, if I'm at least, I'd like toot-toeing papi's my, ya, just, but I've got, I've got to have been married, and, I can't, I can't make sure

more more nekate than before I have a time before I have a tanguangunation, so, so, so if you're talking with client, yeah. The first thing is the

the most of what you have advocated? Yeah, if I'm... For investations? I'm privy-can, actually, not have been able to give advisors to the same long as well. But I, I usually make it

to make a package class. So, like, the name is asset planning. Asset planning is, we have to, we have to understand, we're, we're this position is, is what, is we are actually on the active income,

or we're still in the position to get passive income, then passive income we're in the level of where. If I say that, the class is one day, and, usually, that's after it, there, in one, two months,

we're going to do review, there in some of discussion, or they're had here to class that other than that's like that. I want to take the market in the world. This if we look at the same of the same $3.5 million per mobile that he produced, compared Volkswagen,

the share of the money is, per-sahm, $20,000 per mobile that's being produced or to do-doxie or to dole. It's very natural, that one is one's $3.5 million. One one other, only $20,000. But, but two two are the rodasasas' can't in the speed that almost same.

Yeah, right? One, not the electric. But one other, it's already that's been using the electricity. That's from digitalization, robotization, artificial intelligence. That in the world

This is kind of a planet that's kind of a bit of a planet that's I'm going to come up to come up to context transition that we're going to be doing. We've heard there are actions corporate, right, right,

right, technology or digital in Indonesia, like it's going to to passar-modal. What is the tip that you can give to the society-loas? Oh, like, this is like this.

Yeah. In America, like that's like that. And then, a little, back, we'll be with the way that we'll look at there. This, this, this, right? Yeah. Yeah.

Right. So, right. So, right, how we're going to be with the example that, back, back, about, So, today we use is

a percalfa, via online, WA. And then, we used pranko, we're using surat, before we're using Mar-Pathipati post. This is, it's just the way to be made same. Conto, business, jama'dou, it was the barang of the good, abyser, then, it, and, marketing. So, that, is sales and marketing.

If it's the business, Businesses, then, then, after the other than the product. This is there's a per-giscering in the world, tech to go to the other. So, because it, not we can't we evaluate with a way of the way, if you're, where, you know, where,

the land there's there are about many. And if that's done in the day of the day this, we also, we also, people who have asset-tebal, yeah, it's just, it's just the way, it's always,

they're going to be because, there's a case of the other the other that's the travel agent

hotel but, never want to one there can make taxi without

not have taxis, now, why can't not we can't So if we're in here, if we're looking, from the condition I'm from the condition, actually, there's one condition that we're partying is growth.

So because it's growth that's the growth that's the fact. If we're looking at the tech, that's what we're doing to make user acquisition to make up to grow. What's the reason if if growth? What if it? In the world, technology, because growth is growth is going to be the huckum pareto.

If I have 100 million users, then what I'm saying campaigned 10%, who are what I'm doing the same percent is the same thing is the same thing, right now, and then if in the long, the concept is not like that. How many of the things I produce,

the product I have to sell that's not-todeled-turtigueling, a little. So, to that's the other. So, we're going to lose. But the problem is, luos is it, has to beckajaman. If we don't keep in this,

like, if we're going to get to beckhame, when we're talking about peckhackageman, when he's been saying, oh, I'm not going to get tech, I'm not even not even if you're going to evaluate, or not to be perkenalcerned just resistant, so. So, the era in this is,

is that's not the barang the value of the value but we're making from what we've ever we know the way. Right. So, we have to be able. Yes.

What's the way? If this is it, this is going to be in the bursa. Barang technology that's already in the last, in the last, in the with the way that's in the way to the world barat, right?

Yeah. This is going to be in here, if you're in the core of the world, 12-bunned-to-dun-de-pan, this is it's going to beausa to bea? Yeah. This if we're... Ibarat it's like, they're used or are

used with metric, okay, valuations maybe 10 to 20 times PI. This is barren-baru who's going to be massuked, I-it-a-a-ha-a-a-ha-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-eReda. Yes, when in Indonesia this the taskantang about investors who's that's the investor, actually, he is a trader a bit more than a bit,

so. So, the problem is the most of the product that's the fact is tech, and today, also, the market model, we've made sectoral because tech, but still, so. So, the really,

the challenge is the investor this this is to be more rational. Because they rationality is to be able to be able to be able to be rationales to be able to be able to be able to be in fact that if we're seeing like the companies that are being burn money. Now, burn money is,

it's, it's, there's up with a puttubblean. There's one titic, at the end, they can make sure it with the king-inan. And in America, and that's just to be So that's actually, if if you're even want to success,

also, there's back-up, there's back-up, there's a lot period, you know, but, that's, you know, but, it's a part, but it's made this can't be a peneraping with bad, if not,

if, it's not the part-guna again. I'm optimistic that's the process education is, is the more than what we're more than what we're going to be, and this if I look at the

this, the end of the end of the same maybe we're going to in transition, the endowment this is more related more than the

other than the market. Yeah. Because, maybe the model lower, it's more familiar

with a metric valuation that's a bit more than what we're used to here. Yeah. But, but not long as long as it, it can't make up to the world. Yeah, right. Right, right.

In which, where, then, the, the, of the other than money that will be in the country, it will be able to be it. Right. Right. Yeah.

And, and just, and just how to the front of the money to be able to be able to be able to be able to be. Because, I think, I'm more to take stability of the right. Right. Because we've got to look at in several cycles

this long-in-in-in' kerentanan-out-out-out-out-you-can-law-law. Yeah. Yeah. Because, maybe, impulse that not nambung with situation in-negrey or what. Yeah.

So, if I'm from me, I see, I'm looking at this, if, if we look at the investor, we're talking capital market, In fact, we've been very much, if we're being able to be able toimbang, and this is the barang barang barring of technology which is new,

will be fragile. Because they're justrooes who've been to be able to beaeroying and it's true, there's been to be a lot. And it's been to the two years'er last, since there's cases ofasasasasasasasasasasasasasas model that rame, that's many people, there's many people. Now, the main barring that's impact is they're not about they're not about how long as much

there's a month? There's a lot more than you can investment. But, can, actually, there's who has had the value model that's that this is investation. Investation is like menanam pohn. Bukh. We're actually like dagang sapi.

Now, the whole is, structure the, the second is, the literasiness. And the other, that's, there's not, there's, not, is, there is, there can't be, in the region in our country,

this, regulation in our country, but, so, I agree. And, yeah, we're also, that, that's the power and regulator

to, to go to the other and it's important and we're It's very much that's the fact that's the speed of the world is more than than the speed of the development

or in public enterprise or in policy making. Now, this is more to give give an advocacy to them so, because they can be able to beaute it, right, right. Now, I want to ask, this is to the front, we talk about Indonesia in 245. From the cacemata, how is it?

From here, from me, I'm here, I'm saying, we're doing for the demography we're doing tounked. So, I'm seeing that the the gayseran pet, per-economian, this is always be gayser, we know, there Mesopotamia, and there are going to gethers,

and now there are America, and then, I think, the key is from the people of the people of the people, we're, the bonus is that. What we need to take up to quality.

So, we're really we're hithung to the generation to be more than us to be more than we. Agar the best of the world, this is really, there's not a barrier, but it's just that's now that's just going to be able to get up

automatically, this is not I'm not with the other other than I'm with the other other than I'm from, there's on the online that's about than 10,000 kilos, ma'am. Now, this is a bigaheer if we can't be able to be a consumer

without, in the baserary, the problem of investment, because at the end up to be able of having-hapis-product that we'd do-jewal. If we can't get our SDM our, waddu, I'm more grie.

I said, I said, I said that I said, I said that you can't be able to be more than what didi can. So, so, today, can't be English, Basa Indonesia, or Basa Jawa. And I said, I said, you have to at least three languages, which is in a good,

because he's been doing, she's being able, so, the two, the English, the other, the other, maybe, because of the lawyish mandarin. The question is more than 10, 20 years to come from 10, 20 years to come there, because like people can be able to be able to be a different,

we can't we, we don't know how we're going to beaughan. How we can't get to the economy, right? So I worry, justur, I worry, not for my own for the generation, But I worry for the generation-building. Yeah. So, is strategic goals for nation-building. It's, can, it, but maybe the basic, that's the one,

is one, for how we can produce products product of the pediccan that can make us to the lives. The most of the people is the power of the work, If he's not like soo-belar, that he can be a-coulding,

can be a-cunding, can be acunctant, can be a person-signy, can be pelucis, aphi-photography, so technocrat. But, in the bottom, what is that is how

products of the product of our productivation, it can make up productivity, so, so, we can be able to be if we're not... If we're not going to be, we're going to be the end of the end up

being the producting, not as a producer. Right. That's what is to sikapy to be able to pompang our sifat consumptive we don't even if we're going to come from from out just,

but if we can get from from our from our own, from our own from to consume it. Now, the two, But I'm not that's the strategic goal from our nation building,

that's how we can focus to how much more than for long, can? Is it inclusive of the like what you're doing? What you're doing? Yeah, right?

And, whatever, that 24-town to the time, this is great This is great. Now, I see, I think that's, maybe,

maybe, the fact-a-paw-harm or or in the same-a-paw-and-a-poh-is-a-harm or instrument-a-moddustraint or instrument equity, that's, with objective of the long-pang-pan

Indonesia. Yeah. Yeah. If it's, there, there's, there's about with the same-same with the

for the economy. Yeah. Yeah. If you can, there's some of the same that's about in inclusions of the money. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know.

The other, how do you know, to regulator, I said there's a gap, that people that that people who buy a share but he didn't make money because not did not be an investment

as a lifestyle. So, from what I've learned, I've got to be, pa, yeah. What's is that's that's been by regulation and also the person of the person, it's just,

it's not-shappie also, the same thing, I'm going to buy a down-tol. Yeah, Bo, I'd give discount if it's on a carous

there prestes, and, automatically, there's some kind of a can be able to people can be able to there's also something that's in

somebunging in their with what they investasicate. So, why, when we're about about the product of, like, it's about, I think, I think, in the other than I'm like, in a good way,

that's like that. With, I can't be a tabungan in one place, if I'm, if I'd be given, bigisan. It's, in the country, people who know that.

So if we can blend it's one, that's what's what makes people more than to investation. But when it's not, then what we're just just jargon, investation is like a guy of life, it's, it's all day, have to be with a safe.

But there's no anchor that's a link-hubbingingan to be a good, so that's putous. That's nother, that's about the market model, that I also usul-can, to do you, do you know, there's a number that

if I'm a investor from a bank, if I'd get to bank, it's, help, the door's better, talk, that, that's it, but it's, maybe, it's too too too, But if we can't make it into one portion,

it's always hard to be able to do it in a long time pendic. Because the time of time of time that's always something that's instant. But if we're talking about 20 years again, maybe with I give them a new guess, to give us a suggestion to my, 20 years, he's already, but what's now, now, it's still

it's not going to be. You can't you? Do you, in 24 years to the 2045, the portion of investor retail, it can't amy institutions? I believe, ma'am it's a logica. Okay. Because I, because digitalization.

Because digitalization, it's, in a way, to make the open up to open and whatever, that's just on the hand-phone we can't we can't even with our own. We can't make it up to our home. It's automatically, it will make it

it all be more than the new. Okay, I'm going to be it's going to beit-coin. Oh, yes. Yeah, right. Yeah, right, is it's not, okay, like, Okay, well, a few weeks later. But it's already a little.

How's, how do you know, in context, maybe, education about Bitcoin to the future. What's what is to becermati by the people who are the world about about bitcoin? Yeah. When we look

revolution industry, and there's a machine that can't on the end of the where people have on the car that was the same time before, then the people who are being under the barangue, I'm going to be a person.

I'm going to be a person that is a penjillover. Because he, at that was a betterbatten of the mechanization. Now, I'm going to be not that I'm not because I'm not because I

learn technology, I'm learning the concept that, what's what is the coin-coin-coin-in-in-in-in- and technology in-bawah-ebohan. That's what's like the revolution is on the way that's being,

there's a bit of the vehicle, it's the way of the way of the way of how to do it? We still still, it's not even with a lot, it's more than, but the things, there are not. So, first, we don't know the data technology because we're so asing. The second, because we can't

look to coin, which is, ma'an, which is, ma'an bitcoin that, ma'am. Now, there's a way of the other than and the other than the other than the other than Bitcoin, this, which we have open-minded. We'll just putuscan

that is, is, is it more of the constructivist, or destructive it? Because, because, because, the technology is the

technology is the path to It's not even to peer-to-peer transaction. If not that's not-to-peer trans-to-peer, don't there's peer-to-peer landing, that's peer-to-peer lander, is people-to-peer, but there's centralization,

as the part of the regulator. Crypto and blockchain is peer-to-peer transaction, where, not need a one a perantara-trak, descentralization. Descentralization,

where the sacksiness is based on consensis, that's in-exam-computterization of their to make a validation on transaccy. Now, we just putusk, is it going to be utilization to be a right or negative? Tentunctu-tenton every other positive

to something, it'll be that's going to come negative. Yeah. That's what's what happened with today. Right? Right, right, paumor of crypto and the penemuon Bitcoin and blockchain. Blockchained is already from 1990s. But utilization blockchain

to be the era Satoshi in 2008. Today, we're, we're, we're still in 13 years. We're still trying to try and not to get in the that's how much the way. That's what I'm the point that's about with crypto.

I'm if I'm going to ask you. Bitcoin that's a lot. There's some, maybe, decentralization, or the sifat the decentralistic. The second, if we look at the people,

not say I'm saying to say it's not saying it's not going to be diversification, they're looking class asset that uncorrelated. And Bitcoin this memenue sharrat.

Yeah, for the cotak that that is that is set class that's not have correlated with assets, that's the important diversification in investment management or management of investations. Yeah, because they're still making the money that's big,

because liquidity that's a number of $100 trillion, that's what's what that's what's going to be it's about bitcoin. Yeah. Now, if it's about it's going to be up, maybe, maybe, just. Yeah. So, while liquidity, still there.

As long as M2, it's still robas, the sumla. Maybe the next, the point of the little, if I see, emas, that is something that can travel over time, but not travel over space, because it's hard for to pickle, it's gotong. One kilo just...

Yeah, right? ...ed dollar, it's something that can travel over space. Because it's ringan, dollar bill, but not can travel over time. Now, this is the tip of emas with dollar, this is maybe be able to be made by Bitcoin. Because Bitcoin, it's also travel over time,

and it's travel over space. Gold 2.0. For people who people, people, can say that Bitcoin is gold 2.0. So it's just like like this. I'm going to be advocating crypto, but if I'm just to ask, why can go from $200 to $34,000

in a few years, yeah, a bit fantastic, or too fantastic, even. Yeah. Now, this, if I'm think, important people to be educated. Right.

Don't even if they're play-set too, right. So, when people just run sum-sumbang, to create kreta-kidtrak, not I'm going to bella, but I'm trying to educate what

cryptocurrency, and what is the technology and what's the technology because, so, so, like, basically we can't see what? What's the same is what? What's the general ledger?

Why is there general ledger? What's the fact is what? What's the meaning? Nambang is what? Not that I'm not saying, people for investasks of Bitcoin. If you're the same, it's a people's about it.

If you're going to do. But if from my, the more important is education, they, at the end up, he knew, oh, it's like this. Oh, it's what I have to do what? Because many people who are

who are being a corbans, because of the people, people are going to be there. I'm, saddened to the same. So, there are some of the share. There's some of Forex. Kessle some of assuransi. Kessle of crypto.

And who's what's what? Yeah, and then, not investation again. That's what's something that's a sedian. of the case, sir. So it's just it's, if I think I'm the case of the same thing

with prospect of the of the Bunga, or cost of money, in a systematist or systematic in some the other

decaida to the fact that productivity it will continue in any right, right, too,

because in because of systematic, to make up to us to invest in equitas, yeah, for the instrument of the future of the future. If we're... If we're... If we're...

...that we can't even put on something that's not there's a certain one-year, but if we're for a certain... ...theirousan the need of the time that's coming I think we're not even with models of fixed-income, we have to be able to instrument investations, of the investment of the important potential upside that's quite

that's important. The instrument of investment is that's right. The last, about the rupee. What's the other, around or currencies, or in the long, if in the long? If in the time of the end of the

view of still, if I'm juster, if I'm juster, if I'm really, I'm looking at the money that, at the end, we're not a currency that,

I'm in the state of the statistics when we're going to be, why the dollar is more than the dollar is not even in the case, we've got never left. We've seen in 2008, I think that's about it, Papa's even being wrong, and this dollar is am going to. Who's the sick?

The same is the South America. When in 2008, who's who's the sick? But I'm the same from America. But what happened to the dollar, it's not even. So if you're in the condition that's actually, with condition that's still like this,

so actually, the condition of rupee, it's still in the case of many. If in the end up in a long time in the end upendic, it's, is it, or if we're more than using structure of the law and not? Jankanqueline, I see just through there's prospect of the Punguaten Rupia. Penguatan?

Because, can, because of the longarant quantitative. Because dollar, and then, maybe not as much what we've seen last, that's usually remus. There's a penuronation to the market, like what we've seen in 2008.

When quantitative easing, did happen, 1.5 trillion, it's down, because it's remiss to the world, to the other America. But, the jank of my opinion, if, the, the, or the power of the corelasy with fundamental.

Fundamental, we're getting to be able, we're getting up, it's more, it's more, better than. It's more clear. Maybe the last, this is the derivative. In fact, what is the abackalance of, like how? For the people in the Indonesia, it's about the directive to the front.

Yeah, so we're in Indonesia, When I'm in the instrument of investsatism, there's also there's obstacles, but when we're talking about derivative, it's more than than primary product. It's many things that may seem like. So in the world literacy, I'm actually,

I'm really, so that people who know instrument investations and they're even more mappan more than more than more than more than more than more than more than than more than than than than than than than that is something that is something that is, but when we can't,

we can't, we can't, we can't be a lot of industry Forex, yeah. Forex, in Indonesia, wow, I'm rugged from Forex. So I don't know that transaction. Even anyone who says... Conotations negative. That's... Correct.

Forex is judy. Well, if judy, must be the gillaran-negara, Then right now, but also there's not much. Now, why, you know, again again, we're like, later, and sometimes,

also, because the market that's that's really, there are many selling, many who are selling that's selling with the way that's oh, this you,

you know, get on the 20%, two minutes, ooh, it's really, it's good, That's not good. So that's not got to get a chance, I get back to Octa Investama,

bea-enrable-trained against to make-education to get into instrument derivative. I want, I said. Why? Because, because, there's no one of the money if we buy emas, if we're really we're going

to bring the money and we're loose not sure what we need is fluctuasion. Well, it's not the hemmathe, it's not the amount of the emasuan, the right we care, is the price. Why I said, well, in our country,

it's the directive of the and derivative it, the people are the same should be able, the sumber-dai that's also, also, so what,

so what, it's just, it's just, He's not has got to the heart of the forex, sick aty, saccharacterity, saccharacter, and then what's it so it's. Not there's not a matter of the past what?

Acibat, what is. That's right. Very good. Thank you, Ryan. Yeah. You know. That's Ryan Philbert, inspirator and the Makar Investation in Indonesia.

Thank you. Endgame is a podcast by the School of Government and Public Policy Indonesia. The first Indonesian policy school to offer a full-time master's program in English. And is a production of the cinema, Indonesia's award-winning entertainment and technology company. Oni Jamhari and Anga Duimasa-Songko are our executive producers. Ahmed Zaki Habibi and Jimmy Kuntoro are our supervising producers. Hannah Humayra and Farah Abida are producers.

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