Endgame with Gita Wirjawan - Sadhguru: Knowledge—Boon or Burden?

Episode Date: December 9, 2022

Is there any universal definition of happiness? What hinders humans from evolving? How can we create a “Conscious Planet”? A reflective and life-shifting conversation with Sadhguru—founder of Isha Foundation, a yogi, a mystic, and author of more than 50 books—on the difference between knowledge and knowing, the idea of affluence in life, and how grains of soil can alter humanity. In the dialogue, Sadhguru also discusses the paradoxical power of social media, technology, and science. #Endgame #GitaWirjawan #Sadhguru Endgame’s Episode Notes with Sadhguru: https://endgame.id/eps109notes Pre-Order the official Endgame merchandise: https://wa.me/628119182045 SGPP Indonesia Master of Public Policy 2022/24 admission: admissions.sgpp.ac.id | [e-mail] | https://wa.me/628111522504 Other "Endgame" episode Playlist: https://endgame.id/season2 | https://endgame.id/season1 | https://endgame.id/thetake Visit and subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/@SGPPIndonesia | https://www.youtube.com/@VisinemaPictures | https://www.youtube.com/@ConsciousPlanetMovement

We are trying to fill the void of our ignorance with all kinds of beliefs so that we feel confident living here. Because you have not been conscious of your mortal nature. We are heading towards soil extinction. That's what we're going towards. One of the greatest crimes that we have done in the world is to tell people that there is a better place than this. I'm so honored today to be sitting next to Sad Guru, the yogic mystic visionary, also the founder of the Isha Foundation.

Sat Guru, it's such an honor. Wonderful to have you here. And you're the first man I'm meeting with the name Gita. Not a female, unfortunately. No, no. Usually female names are spelled with double E. Yes. This is proper Gita itself.

I'll tell you a story. My parents were big fans of India. still are. My father passed. And they expected a baby girl. But in the 60s, they didn't have the technology to predict. Out of their disappointment, they put Gita on you. So they prepared the clothes and the name, but something else came up.

I want to ask you a few questions, Saguru. The first is relevant to how you grew up. You've referred to your great-grandmother very often as a role model. No, not a role model. If she was my role model, you wouldn't be sitting here with me. But tell us a little bit. Probably there are two ways of putting this. One thing is, even when I was four, five years of age,

my thought process was just about the same as it is today. So I don't know which is the reality whether I did not grow up or I was never a child. One way or the other. Except my physical ability to do things and whatever else, life and interactions with life. As a person, what I was then, I'm still the same person. Very much. Only thing is At that time

The burden of ignorance made me a bit serious Because I had to pay attention to everything Or rather I could not pay attention to anything Without being withdrawn from everything else

If I had to look at a leaf Everything else would disappear If I look at a man, woman or a child Everything else will disappear Maybe my perception has evolved that today I can pay attention and still be conscious of everything else at that time if I pay attention to something only that was there, everything else was gone.

Even now I'm made like this if I close my eyes, that's the end of the world for me. I could sit like this till I fall dead. Because deep down within me I have no need to do anything. Anything? No need for action. Well, what's needed? We take it up and do it.

That's why there's no burden. Doesn't matter how much activity. There is no burdensomeness because you don't carry it heavy on yourself. I'm still the same four, five year old boy. Nothing changed. Maybe I laugh a little more now than then because I found the keys to ecstasy. You've put premium on ignorance more than knowledge. It's rather contrarian and counterintuitive.

Well, it is not. It is just that people twist and turn through times. Say in the Western culture, for example, because we are here, I'm talking about this. The basic fable or the story or the parable that comes is about how a man and woman fell by eating the fruit of knowledge. See, knowledge does not mean you know everything. Knowledge is an accumulation. The moment, by accumulating a few pieces, if you think you know the whole universe, you're lost. If you gather a few of these leaves and say, I understand the universe, what to do?

Right now, this is the human condition. They know titbits of life. With those titbits, they think they know everything. So always people are going back to authority saying that, the Gita says this, the Quran says that, the Bible says this, some other book says that. You're going back to authority essentially means you don't know. Why don't you admit you don't know? And this admitting is not to me or to somebody else.

Within yourself, if you know that you do not know, then your intelligence will be on 24 hours of the day, a wake or asleep. It's always on and probing and exploring or penetrating into creation. If I think I know, immediately it will sleep. See, right now, it's light. You can casually walk without paying attention to anything. If you come here late night, it'll be pitch dark. If I ask you to walk here, you will become super alert.

Why? Because you don't know where is the next step. The moment you don't know, do you see your alertness is at a different level altogether? So even now you don't know. It's just that you assume you know. Yeah. Well, we go to universities, we go to schools, we go to scholars and variety of people to make our own conclusions. Or to go there to confirm our conclusions that we already have.

This is not exploration, this is not knowing. This is just knowledge collection. This is the same old tribe of hunting and gathering part of the civilization. You know, very rudimentary or primitive part of civilization. We are still there when it comes to mind. Physical atmosphere maybe we have grown, but not really. They were going hunting, gathering. People are going shopping.

It's the same. It's hunting only. Do you think... The educational system needs to be radically changed then? Well, the educational system that we have is like an extruder system. You put everything into the same thing and it'll turn out ready-made human beings. Right. A human being is a life, a unique life.

Right. And not only that, on this planet, we are the peak of evolution. We are like the flower of evolution. You can't put flowers through the extruder and get out some kind of shape and say, this is the new flower. Flower has to blossom in full fragrance means it needs attention and cultivation. I think very, very few schools in the world can even attempt or afford to cultivate children slowly with a necessary care. Because it's an extruder system. Put everybody into it and some kind of product comes out.

They know physics, chemistry, mathematics, biology, everything. This is all been done because we have made making a living two bigger things. Making a living has become big and absolutely enslaving for our generation. because we want to live like somebody else. If your neighbor has a car which is two feet longer than yours, you want to get that. If your neighbor has a bigger diamond than yours, you want to get that. If a neighbor has a bigger house than that, you want to get that.

It all depends in which neighborhood you are living. How much you want, isn't it? It keeps growing like this. So we think this is development, this is advancement, and this is advancement of human civilization, no. This is just raising the bar of survival higher and higher that even if you're a millionaire or a billionaire, still you're fighting for survival.

This is the silliest way to live. Because the idea, the idea of affluence in life either for an individual or a society or a nation is that we don't have to be concerned about our survival. That's idea. our choices of nourishment and choices of lifestyle are ensured we can live whichever way we want. And if something significant comes, we can go that way. Like people here were asking me, Sadd Guru, is it true that next time Jesus comes,

he will come here in Missouri, not in Jerusalem? I said, I don't know where he's going to come. But if he comes in America, and he says, like he said 2,000 years ago, come follow me. Even in Jerusalem, only 12 people followed him. Out of those 12, one of them freaked. But in America, if he says, come follow me, maybe many of you will have desire. But you have student loan, car, loan, house loan, second house loan, 45 years, your life is already mortgaged.

Where are you going to go? He also said, you can't serve money and me at the same time. All right. Anyway, he said, you're serving this process of acquiring wealth and serving me won't happen together. What he's saying is he's not about, it's not about being against wealth. Right.

It is just that you understand the wealth of life is in your experience. in the profoundness of your experience, not in things that you accumulate. Because whatever you accumulate, it is only relevant to the times in which we exist. See, if you were here 10,000 years ago, you had a little better stick than me. Ah, you're a big guy.

Today, if you carry a stick and walk around, we think you've lost it. All right? So today what you have is maybe a car, maybe a home, maybe a suit, maybe this and that. this is a consequence of time. This is not your doing.

Right. So what we have is only relevant to limited time period that we are there. And what we gather, either in terms of material wealth or in terms of knowledge, will never enhance the life that we are. It'll only enhance us in the social situation. We are misunderstanding that social situation is life. Social situation is a frill that we add to our life. You know, there's an observation that the current generation, they tend to spend a lot less time on what matters in the long run.

They tend to spend a lot more time on what matters today. Then life is brief. So short-termism, is that good then? I didn't say it's good. Okay. You were serious. I'm nervous. So, people are trying to live like there is no tomorrow.

It's fantastic if you lived like that in full awareness. It doesn't matter what comes tomorrow, you're fine. That's not how it is. You push yourself into unawareness of alcohol and drugs and various other things. You don't know what's coming tomorrow. That is a stupid way to live. Ignorance is not bliss as people have been propagating. See, if you jump off a cliff, it's really wonderful, you know.

Have you ever done free diving? Free fall diving? No. You should. It's most wonderful. Liberating. Liberating. Beautiful.

Because you don't know whether you're going up or down simply or floating up there in the space. Only thing is if you look down, the damn planet is coming at your great speed. that's the only problem. So it is very blissful till you hit the ground. So ignorance is always like that. For a brief amount of time, it's fantastic. You don't know nothing. It's great.

But when life hates you, it hits you. I want to go back to what you alluded to earlier. You mentioned Gita, the Bible and Quran. You've spoken about... I'm not read either of them. I know. And I want to get to what you've referred to earlier a few times in the context of the difference between clarity and confidence.

Tell us. Well, I'll go back to the same example. Right now, if I ask you to walk from here to there, do you need confidence? If you have two legs, you'll walk. But if it's pitch dark, if I ask you to walk, you need confidence. So your confidence is a bridge. to cross the chasm of darkness that you don't know.

It can work sometimes. You can shout your slogan, whatever your slogan is. And go. Maybe you will cross or maybe you will sink. Well, if it works 50% of the time, most people think they're successful, if they're successful 50% of the time in their life. That's why they decide everything with a coin.

Heads, I do these tails, I'll do that. See, if you're successful only 50% of the time, there are only two professions for you. Either you must become an astrologer or a weatherman. These are the only two professions where you can be right 50% of the time and still keep your job. in any other job

if you're 50% of the time wrong you're fired isn't it yeah so confidence is a bridge across things that we do not know clarity means you see things as they are

you don't need a bridge you know how to navigate nor do you need confidence because you can see what is there so what is the problem so instead of enhancing clarity

we are building confidence with belief systems and philosophies and ideologies. A man who thinks he's very confident is naturally violent. No, they can't approach anything gently. People don't understand this. Whether it's a football game or a tennis game or anything that's happening, people are in this mode. Well, right now they may not be punching you. but there is a urge for violence.

You're seeing a game itself as a catharsis for your violence. No, there is another way to approach it and function at your highest level because there is substantial medical and scientific evidence to show you that your body and your brains will work at their best only when there is a pleasantness of experience. If you're blissful, your body and your brains will work. at their best. For success of any physical activity, sport, music, art, business, whatever it is,

how well you can harness this body and this brain is the success, isn't it? It's the basis of success. So, if you think there is a substitute for clarity, you will move from making plans to depending on predictions. This is a difference between certain success and chance. A lot of people are successful by chance. The coin fell the right way. But they live in the fear of losing it all the time. They're successful, they are fearful. If they're not successful, of course. All the trouble.

A growing number of people around the world seem to think that the world is getting darker. Does that mean the need for more confidence as opposed to clarity? I don't think the world is getting darker. Maybe they looked up in the night. With, you know, some of the things that are not showing any signs of peace in some parts of the world. See, just look back and see, you're from Indonesia. 100 years ago, what was happening in your country? 200 years ago, what was happening in your country?

What is happening today? which is better, tell me. Then how is it dark? I was referring to other parts of the world. Other parts of the world also. Anywhere in the world, what was happening 100 years ago and what is happening today, tell me which is better. You're right.

Especially I'm saying women. Tell me which is better. For the women of the world, it's never been as good as it is today, ever before in the history of humanity. because the world was largely dependent on man's muscle to do everything. It is now because of technology, everything that man's muscle can do is being done by the machine. Now men and women can, we can even talk about equality.

Okay? Otherwise, the talk was absurd. Nobody would even entertain the talk because man's muscle was vital to make anything happen. in this world. So, people who are complaining are any way complaining. They were always, even when they were in the caves, they were complaining. The cave is not large enough, lit, there's no LED, there's no Wi-Fi, the same people. They'll continue to complain because they don't want to see that the failure is them, not the world. As a world,

As a humanity, as a civilization, we made things really good outside for every human being. Unfortunately, still there are a lot of people left out of it in terms of wars and famines. But that percentage is significantly smaller than what it was a few hundred years ago. I agree. It is just that if 100 years ago or 200 years ago, let us say here, or in Indonesia, 100 people died. You would be sitting here such a peaceful, wonderful day. But today already in the morning,

you're only seen in the phone, blood spilling somewhere. Now you think it's happening all over the world. So do not misunderstand communication for creation. Creation is going well. Communication has increased to such a point that somewhere one man dies, his blood will spill in your sitting room and your bedroom, your dining room also these days there is a thing in a bathroom also, there is a television. All right?

So, blood is spilling all over your home and you think it's spilling all over the world. No. Even if one man dies, if you take ghastly pictures of that and put it on the television, you will feel suddenly the world has become very violent, isn't it? Yeah. That's not true. Yes, there are still many problems to be solved. There's no question about that.

But it's way better than it ever was. Talk about technology. I mean, rage has not gotten worse. Anger, rage, rage, hatred. I think they would have been the same as we would have seen 100, 200 years ago. But the reach into technology is a little bit different now because of the way innovation has taken place in a much more exponential. So it may just take the same amount of bad behavior

as it would have 100 or 200 years ago to be attached to some technological. Correct. How do we deal with this? See, we've still not come to a place where we can make every few. human being conscious and be free from these things. But we have come with a poor substitute, which is called as the law. That you may be full of rage, but you still cannot kill me because you know what the consequences are.

We made sure you don't get away with your actions of rage, largely. Not everywhere, but largely better than ever before again. So is law enforcement a solution? No, it is not. It's an interim arrangement. Till we evolve, till we think human beings are worthwhile focusing upon and evolving them to greater possibilities, still we do that. Law enforcement is a stop gap.

Because if that is not there, we will never get there. Right now at least there is a semblance of peace. Maybe your heart is burning, but you will sit here quietly. This is civilization. You understand? You're right now raging within you as to what you want to do with me, but you will sit here peacefully, at least pretending to be peaceful and also try to smile.

So this is the training for civilization. Civilization is not consciousness, but creating a platform to seek something higher. We are still in that place creating a platform. There was a time when Eastern societies created the platform and rose to great heights. But unfortunately, those platforms were destroyed. in many ways they were brought down with invasions, with very aggressive belief systems. It was brought down.

So we still need to build that platform. And today, the world being so digital, it's a bit easier to build those platforms. Because you can build a digital platform that people can use to raise themselves up. Raising human consciousness is the most important thing to do. But the platforms are needed. As a part of this, you know, I'm not a real estate person. By me, my real estate is in the minds and hearts of people. But now, suddenly, we are building a spurt of centers around.

Here, we're building a whole spiritual city. This is a very large piece of land. And we're building a whole city here. In India, we are working towards having nearly 100,000 people in the center. We are coming up with another center in Bangalore. One more in Delhi. We may do one in Europe. Hopefully in Indonesia.

That's what they was telling me. You must come to Indonesia and build. You have 11,000 islands uninhabited. 17. Oh, yeah, uninhabited. Uninhabited. 11,000 islands. That sounds very attractive.

I want an island with a volcano. I'm such a big man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We took a red eye from that stuff. I want to ask you about social media. I'm sort of in a camp that believes that social media has done more harm to humanity than health or good.

At the rate that many of our kids, or even older than those, are spending nine, ten hours a day on their mobile phones. their mobile phones. I wish they could spend the same number of hours here, you know, listening to you, if not more, than 10 hours a day. I think that could be better for them. No, they're listening to me on the social media. Partly, but not the whole 10 hours, unfortunately.

No, it doesn't matter what they're watching here and there, that group pops up these days. I know. I know. But generally, what is your view on? on the role of social media on humanity. See, it's one of the greatest things that have happened to human beings. In the sense, see, right from ancient times, many great beings have come.

When they spoke, hardly 10 people could hear them. Today you can sit here and speak to the whole world. When was this ever possible? We are the first generation experiencing this and we are complaining about it because we don't know how to use it. Well, this is not just about social media. Let's take the advancement of science

and offshoot of technology. What has science done to us? It is one of the most wonderful explorations that human beings got into. But what has science done to us? Threatening the whole world? If at all, if anything, destroys. It's our scientific and technological capabilities that destroy this world, isn't it?

Right. So, is science bad? Is technology bad? Is social media bad? No. This is why I'm saying, as we get more empowered, we need to focus equally on evolution of individual human beings. We have an extruder system in the education.

Everybody falls out as a lump of something. And then you expect empowerment to be an advantage? No. Empowerment is a terrible thing if it's in the wrong hands. Right now that's what is happening. The cutting edge, science and technology is all going into military usage. So at this rate, now they're talking about weapons where they can just kill only the human beings, even the cameras won't be damaged.

So, this is the best thing to do. You drop a bomb, just the human beings die. The buildings are in place, computers are in place, everything is in place for you to come and invade a nation or invade a city or whatever, all right? So why are we going into this? Because we have empowerment in the wrong hands, unevolved hands.

Okay? If you give a gun to a monkey, it will shoot just about anything. That's what we are right now. So all empowerment we are thinking is bad because it's in the wrong hands. So instead of improving the quality of the one who holds this instruments of empowerment, we are thinking those instruments are bad. No, social media is a fantastic thing. Science and technology are one of the most fantastic things that have happened to humanity.

But human beings are not evolved enough to handle such powerful tools and they are messing themselves up. It's time they evolve. If they could evolve joyfully, wonderfully, it would be great. But I think a lot of human beings have written themselves into a space where they can only evolve painfully. This is an unfortunate thing. But a lot of people have kind of dismissed themselves into that pit.

So this is why we say yoga-rata-boga-thowa, somehow through discipline or through chaos, through yoga or through bogas, somehow grow. I see. As long as you're growing. It doesn't matter if your way is painful, what can I do? I would like to see it's joyful. but if your way you will grow only with pain, do it, how can I stop you? Is there a way to enrich the evolutionary process so that you can avoid or prevent those guns from being in the hands of the monkeys?

A lot of these were monkeys, now they all, I'm sorry. We have all kinds of monkeys who have evolved because a little bit of attention, that's all. Other ingredients already creation has done. We just have to little engineer so that nothing is blocking it, that's all. What blocks human evolution? One thing is silly conclusions. These conclusions we call as my personality, myself, my natural self, it's called.

Or it's called family. It's called society. It's called civilization. It's called religion. It's called philosophy. It's called ideology. You call it whatever you want. Once you enshrine conclusions,

this is the advantage. You will suddenly have a newfound confidence. But you shall not evolve. That's why they said. man ate the fruit of knowledge and he fell. I want to try to follow up on this. You know, in the old days, until now, humanity has been searching for salvation, right?

And then recently, they've been looking for inclusion. No, there is a sense that tribalism is on the rise, meaning let me worry about my own zip coat let me not worry about the next zip coat is that good or bad from salvation to inclusion

is a terrible drop because all those people whether they're joyful or miserable they're breathing isn't it? If you have to breathe and live.

Or if you don't breathe, you will die when you know this. Isn't breath and inclusion? Everything here has included you. Otherwise, you wouldn't be alive. What you eat, do you digest? Is that not inclusion? Yes. The world has held you as a part of itself.

Correct. Otherwise, you wouldn't exist here for a moment. So inclusion is they want somebody to tell them every two hours, I love you, I love you, okay? That is a psychological. malice that your whole existence has become in such a way that somebody's emotions or somebody's perceived intentions. These days, your spouse may just train Alexa to tell you every one hour, oh, Gita, I love you.

We can have every one hour repeating. If you want it every five minutes, we can do that also. We can program your phone to just call you and tell you nice, silly things, sweet nothings on the phone. Right. There's nobody at the other end. It doesn't matter. You just like to hear it, right? So I'm saying this sense of wanting to be included in a club or a small group of people or the local gossip group or whatever is a,

you know, depravity that is setting in. Correct. Because we are empowered with things that we don't know how to handle. It's like if you give a full-blown car to a child, he's going to kill somebody or himself. Not because he's evil. Because he just doesn't know what it can do. So that is a case of human beings right now.

So they are looking for inclusion. to have some sense of security. Salvation means you are not looking for security. You're looking for dissolution. Because you understand the nature of your life essentially is constructed on the foundations of mortality. You've come with a limited amount of time and energy. And if you are conscious of it,

that as you sit here, your life is ticking away. if you're conscious of it, seeking realization or salvation or whatever you call it, or mucti or moksha, as we call it in the East, would be a natural process. Because somewhere in your mind you have become immortal, you think you're going to be here. These five people who are sitting here are very needed right now. Without them, you can't exist. Somebody has to tell you, I love you, I love you every three minutes.

otherwise you will feel lost because you're not looking at your life with the right context. The context of life is this from the day you're born, it's ticking away. So should I sit here and worry about my death? Who's talking about worrying about anything? If you know you have a limited lease of time and energy, you definitely organize your life much more smartly, much more intelligently than the way people are doing it.

right now, doing all kinds of rubbish which doesn't mean anything to them. As I was saying earlier, well, if Jesus comes and says, come follow me, your banker says like this, you go there, not here, all right? So what, when I say Jesus, I'm not talking about a man or a religion, I'm saying, something that you consider as super significant. even if that comes, you can't change the course of your life means you're ruined. Right. You're going this way thinking this is it.

But if you saw something really significant, you must be able to change the course of your life. If you cannot do that, you are ruined already. You don't have to wait for the result. Wow. Last question on technology. Before I proceed to the other topics, artificial intelligence, are you worried about it? Why would I be? You know, last.

Because it kind of gives me the same... Pre-pandemic time, they went on inviting me to all these artificial intelligence conferences. So I was in Spief in St. Petersburg. Right. And they all... questioning me about artificial intelligence. I said, hey, why are you asking me about artificial intelligence? I'm a natural intelligence, not artificial.

Why? They are all academics. I'm sorry, I'm not saying this with any of this thing. They were all academics. They're all saying, if this comes up, we will all lose our jobs. I said, isn't it a good thing? Isn't it a good thing? There are no teachers in the world.

Because that's the best thing that can happen to the world. is there are no teachers. No teachers needed means what? That means human beings are smart enough to know and learn by their own means. Isn't that the most fantastic thing to happen? Ignorance over knowledge. Huh? Ignorance over knowledge.

So I was just telling them this. I remember in 70s, the Mumbai port was called as Mazagon Docks. I don't know if it's still called that. So at that time, the ships were being unloaded manually by men carrying sacks. Though they were very strong unions of these coolies, they were called coolies. They had their own number plates, you know, license number. Without that, you could not enter the port.

And there's lots of politics and small mafia working around that and all this stuff. So when they wanted to set up the first gantry in the port, that was the first gantry, big strike, all the coolies went on strike. What are we supposed to do if the gantry comes? On those days, a ship of something like 150 to less than 200,000 tons, they would take 26 to 28 days to unload. And they were happy doing it that way because that much labor they got. When the gantry was fixed, today the gantry that we have, even in India and Singapore, wherever else,

it can unload a ship of quarter million tons in less than 24 hours. So they at that time, they all went on strike and fought that you can't put up this gantry, it's going to take our livelihood away. So essentially what they were saying is, this machine will make our muscles redundant. Isn't it a good thing that happened, I'm asking. Isn't that happened in all levels of our life? So if you had a water carrier bringing water from the river to your home every day

and suddenly you've got a pipeline and a tap, he will resist. Because what about my job? So now professors and academics are wondering what about our jobs because a phone can teach physics, chemistry, mathematics, whatever you want. And it has many gigabytes more memory than a human being can ever have, probably. So they are wondering how will we continue our professions. But I think world should get to a place where to run the world,

the material requirements of food, needs and infrastructure. No human beings should be involved. Everything should be done by the machines. That is when there is good room for consciousness to rise, that we don't have daily concerns. When this happens, those who are ignorant and arrogant, because ignorance and arrogance are not two different things. Ignorance breeds arrogance, all right.

They will go into drinking, drugging, overeating, all this stuff. But there is a whole lot of... of human intelligence which will wonder what is this life about. Some will go towards suicide. Rest will go towards enlightenment. So, culturing the society for a time like that. When I say culturing the society for a time like that, I'm not talking about future.

Even now, how much physical activity you were doing 100 years ago for survival. Today, how much you do has come down to 10% or less? Physical, isn't it? Because of machines and technology. Correct. So how much nonsensical thinking you are doing to understand one thing and to do one thing? If it's done by the machine, is it not a great benediction? So I'm all for any kind of intelligence.

Because this is how I see. I know some religions go about saying that God is love. I don't know about that. I know human beings can be loving if they are willing. Dogs are very loving. Whether God is loving or not, I'm not an authority on that. I don't want to say anything. Somebody says God is compassion.

Well, your job in Stanford, you got it on your competence or compassion? I'm just asking. I don't have the authority to answer. I'm saying, would you like to get it on competence or compassion? The former. Yes. So compassion is meaningful only if you've fallen. Yeah.

If you're down for some reason, physically, mentally, whichever way, if I reach out, it's very valuable. Yeah. Suddenly my hand may look like God's hand to you when you're fallen, isn't it? But when you're standing on your two feet, you want acceptance. You don't want compassion, isn't it? So people say God is compassion because they are in such desperate states. People say God is love because they don't have any love in their hearts. All these things which are human qualities have been exported to heaven.

If you say peace, people say divine peace. If you say bliss, people say divine bliss. No, these are all human capabilities. Miserable people on the planet have exported it. And now to import, you have to pay. From there. So if it's just such a well-thought-out enterprise, I'll appreciate their entrepreneurship,

but not good for humanity. So I'm saying, if all things that can be done by machines or done by, machines, anything and everything. What would the human intelligence do? Naturally, it would seek salvation. Well, a few suicides may happen unfortunately. It should not.

This is why we need to cultivate the society, orient the society. There is a way for a human being to aspire for something bigger than survival. Something bigger than physiological and psychological process is available. is available. If you don't curate the society like this, then they will go to drink, drug, alcohol, suicide. These things will come because we have not cultured the society. Right now, that's what is happening in affluent societies.

The youth are going these things because nobody has cultured them for any higher possibility. The only thing that's been done is selling tickets to heaven. The youth don't want to go to heaven. If you say you want to go to heaven, they will ask you, is there free Wi-Fi or not? They're not interested in the old promises that were made about heaven, all right? They want life here. So that's a very good thing. It may look like short-termism, but it's a very good thing

because I feel one of the greatest crimes that we have done in the world is to tell people that there is a better place than this. This is a crime against creation. There is no better place than this. Wherever you are, you may be in a desert, but still I'm telling you, there is no better place than this for you. You must make this into a wonderful space to live. It's very important.

I have not seen whole of Indonesia, at least Bali. Bali, what we have seen. Oh, you must come again. It's cultured. Yeah. Is cultured for mucti. Correct. India largely was like that, but today we are trying to be more American than American.

We are trying hard. So to culture a society, this is the work that we are doing. To culture a society, not about preaching religion, not about teaching scriptures or some ideal. or belief system, to culture a human being that if you're willing, there are possibilities beyond physical and mental pleasures and comforts. I want to move on to what you've been busy with recently. You've been riding the motorbike all over the world and you've got a lot of people excited. Safe soil. Tell us.

They got excited because they thought I'm killing myself. But tell the world. But tell the world what your mission is. At least the Indonesians and Southeast Asians, what you've been up to. Well, one of your stars was very much a part of Safe Soil Movement. What's her name? Relyn Shah. Relyne Shah has been participating in Safe Soil.

She's been a big support. And she also came all the way to Dubai to ride with me for a short distance. But for a beautiful young woman like that, it was too hot. Did you comply with the speed limits? Speed limits in Dubai are good 160 kilometers per hour. It's 100 miles. It's okay. But because in some places I was going with the security and the security were excited.

So they were driving at 240, 245 kilometers per hour. So I was happy. So about... save soil. I've been talking about soil for over 30 years now. I have spoken to regular common people. I have spoken to lots, thousands of farmers. I have spoken to bureaucrats in various ministries,

agriculture ministries, environment ministries, various ministers in many countries, some of the heads of state. Everybody says this is fantastic, this is very important, this has to be done. And that night they will use it as a pillow to sleep upon all the safe soil talk. So I've been watching this. We've not just been watching.

We've been manifesting it on the ground that we've been converting farmers from aggressive chemical-based farming to very soil-friendly and economically far more lucrative way of doing things. most farmers who have shifted to this form of agriculture with us over 130,000 farmers have shifted to regenerative agriculture in southern India alone. Wow.

Their incomes have gone up anywhere from 300 to 800%. In what sort of duration? In how long? In a matter of 7 to 8 years. My gosh. So now we have 23 farmer producer organizations. organizations. It is 130,000 farmers are pretty large, but still it's a drop in the ocean. So I saw that we can do any number of projects, but the important thing is the global policy has to change.

Right. Because microbial life is not segmented. It's a global phenomena. Unless you make it happen around the world, we are heading towards soil extinction. That's what we are going to work. Because soil is the largest living system, not only on this planet, but in the known universe, it is the largest living system with trillions of life forms. You take a handful of soil, there's anywhere between 8 to 10 billion organisms, 50 to 75,000 species in a handful.

So that's how rich it is. But we have been systematically starving them to death. death. When I say starving them to death, here you see all this leaf has fallen at this time, it will stay here and in a month's time there will be a snowfall. After snowfall by spring, if you look here, there will not be a single leaf. It would all become soil. So here the organic content could be anywhere over 50 to 55 percent. But the minimum organic content that is necessary, to call soil as soil according to UN agencies is 3% minimum most. 3 to 6% is good.

But not a single nation, not even a single nation as an average of 3%. The highest that you find is in Northern Europe, which is 1.48%, Southern Europe is 1.1%. Average across African continent is 0%. continent is 0.3% and United States is 1.25%. India is 0.68%. Below 1% is considered desertification. In the last 25 years, we have lost 10% of the Earth's land to deserts. Wow. 10% in 25 years. And that could increase significantly in the next 10 to 15%.

years time because if the there is something I think generally not being addressed that is if the temperatures go up by one degree the wind speeds on the planet generally should go up by a minimum of 20 to 30 kilometers per hour if it goes up by two degrees it will go up 35 to 40 kilometers per hour so if normal wind is blowing at, let's say, there are many places where in certain seasons, including southern India, the pre-monsoon winds, will blow at anywhere between 70, sometimes, up to 100 kilometers per hour for a month or two months. Almost in large parts of the world, it's like that.

If it picks up to 125, 140 kilometers per hour, then the amount of soil it will shift is enormous. You know this in United States, that there was something called as a dust bowl in the 30s. The entire soil, not entire, a large part of soil. Millions of tons of soil from the prairies went and landed in New York City. They thought it landed in New York City because the building stopped a certain amount and heaps like dunes came up in New York City. But you could never calculate how much of it went into the ocean. right top soil which takes 600 to 800 years to create one inch of top soil but that is

getting blown away as this wind speeds increase it'll get completely blown away especially in islands like yours with our thin strips right the whole island could be in the ocean in a matter of 50 years time if you don't or less I'm saying if you don't take care of the vegetation if I hear that in In Indonesia from 87%, it's come to some 42 or 43% forest cover. If you don't put back forest cover, a lot of things may just blow away because already that is a high wind area, cyclones and stuff. One cyclone can just empty the whole island.

Right now, southern Europe is right now facing this. Already parts of Romania are under sand. because the Kalahari and the Saharan sand is flying into southern Europe. It's not only the people coming. The sand itself is coming. Immigration. You can't stop it.

You can stop the people by pointing guns at them. But the sand will come. So in countries like Romania, Slovakia, even right up to Azerbaijan, through Turkey, these sands are coming. But if the wind picks up by 20, to 30 kilometers more, then overnight your town could be covered in sand. It's possible.

So there are many, many things to it. I don't want to go into, I'm not here to give a doomsday picture. I feel like I just said in a science class. I'm sorry. It's fascinating. So I'm not here to paint a doomsday picture. the reason why I am into this is because if we act now as a generation,

we can very easily turn this around within the next 10 to 12 years time. But that we need government policy. Otherwise, large-scale action will not happen. And for sustained action, you need government policy. Fortunately, me, you know, the reason why I took to this motorcycling is from London to southern India.

30,000 kilometers in 100 days. I did 691 events along the way. Average nearly seven events per day. How long have a drive on a daily basis? 18, 20 hours. Some days, 24 hours through the night. Oh my gosh. And how many of you were riding?

Only me. Single motorcycle, support vehicles were there. Wow. Our video team was there. That's why they've captured many things and there were support teams, media teams and stuff. But otherwise, only one motorcycle. The idea was a lone motorcycle. Because I've been talking about it for over 30 years, people have been sleeping on it.

I saw that unless I do something dramatic enough, people won't wake up. So once they saw initially they thought it's going to be a fun ride and I will ride somewhere in a city and then maybe I will fly to the next city or something. they saw every mile I'm riding myself. Whatever, the weather, it's raining, it's snowing, it's dust-towned in Arabia, I'm still riding. Then they saw, oh, I'm serious about killing myself. Then all these millions of people woke up.

Billions, I heard. No, billions have been reached. I'm saying millions of people woke up and they all multiplied the message. So the sleeping volunteer force just woke up and they made sure it reaches the world because of that now 81 nations are in the process of framing policy for their soil. From China to Europe, America is just beginning.

India, of course, is already on the path and Indonesia also is very much in line. It is just that we want to be. make sure it is not a short-term enthusiasm and then drop down. We want to make sure soil is in conversation. But that's happened. See, last year in the month of January, when the COP 26 met in Glasgow, when the whole world came together to solve climate change and global warming and these

kind of issues or to address these issues, there was really no mention of soil. But this one is happening. we are official observers to this event. Cup 27 is happening now in Egypt. So our teams are there and they're participating and soil has become an important part. So the conversation and the direction has definitely changed with the safe soil moment.

But we need to keep it up because in democracies, today's leadership may not be there tomorrow. Right. All right. Today's election? Yes. Oh. I'm saying that.

On the right day. So they may not be there tomorrow unless it's in the public awareness and in the public conversation, it's an important part. Only then, you know, like administrators can really act. Correct. It is not fair to expect a democratic leader, democratically elected leader, to do something that people are not showing any concern about. People have to show that concern.

So we are still keeping the... campaign up, it will rise to a certain pitch now on 5th of December is the World Soil Day. So around that we will again have a wave of activity around the world to make everybody feel comfortable. I especially want the lawmakers to feel comfortable that this is an important issue. Otherwise they cannot address it. People's endorsement is needed. So that's what we are trying to get. 81 nations are moving, including European Union, is right now in the consultative process.

China has started the soil survey after 40 years' break. India has already invested $2.4 billion towards the soil for the last year. And this year they will, in February there is a budget. Let's see how it goes. Many countries have started moving in this direction. Commonwealth nations, 54 nations are looking at framing policies. Every nation may not be able to go at the same pace because of their economic and other conditions.

But it doesn't matter. We must start the journey. We must start moving towards a solution. In 8 to 12 years, entire world, you can bring it to a minimum of 3% quite easily if there is a incentive-based policy. The policy is three-pronged. One is government incentives to incentivize farmers to go for it. Second is we must simplify the carbon credit to be available to the farmer.

Right now it is very difficult for the farmer to get it. Third is there must be a market recognition. When I say market recognition, today if you go to any shop, or at least to any of the fancier shops, they will shove an apple in your face and say, this is organic. Then you must ask them, please give me an inorganic apple. They don't have one. Good.

So organic is just a marketing jargon. I see. What is in it? Nobody can measure. See, to take this apple to the lab and measure how much insecticide or fertilizer is actually present in it. It's a very complex process. You cannot do that. It's a research project.

Okay? So now we are looking at how to focus on the organic matter in the soil, which is easily measured. in 10 minutes right here on the land you can measure. So now if an apple comes, we want it definitive that this apple comes from 3% organic content soil. This apple comes from 6% organic soil. This apple comes from 10% organic soil.

We have enough science already in our hands and data in our hands. If it's 3%, what is the amount of micronutrients present? What is the kind of health benefit you will have? will have? What is the preventive health? What is the reduction of load on health care system in a given country? What is the benefit to the state? All this data we have. If it's 6% what it is. If it's 10% what it is, this data is not difficult. Only thing is what is 3% and what is 6%? 6% apple may cost maybe 5% 10% more. But instead of eating 6 apples, you can eat one apple and you have the same

nourishment. Yeah. Because in 1920s, studies have been made on this, in 1920s, if you had to, what nourishment you got from orange in Florida or in California, today, if you have to get the same nourishment, you have to eat eight oranges. When was the last time you ate eight oranges for breakfast? You know, whenever we go to Whole Foods, my wife. is big on organic.

We take it for granted that if it says organic, it's good. It's not necessarily good. No. So we got to... It just become a marketing word. It's a gimmick, yeah. I wouldn't say it's a gimmick. That would be strong.

I would say it's not defined. Okay. Would you say it's misrepresentative? Misrepresentative? See, probably in the larger agricultural sphere, this is one stage of development from being totally chemical. Somebody saying something organic. That means they used a little less fertilizer, less whatever.

It's one stage of development. But that is not enough. We need to come to another stage where it is grown on rich land. That's what is important. It's just organic is not important. It must be grown on rich land. If the fruit or vegetable has to be rich, and if this body has to be rich,

one thing that will happen out of this is, see, if let us say entire planet becomes something like 6 to 8% organic content, agriculture lands, if we achieve that, all human beings naturally will consume at least 30% less food than what they're consuming right now. Wow. So it is not only towards solving the hunger issues in the world,

The important thing is in your system, today I've come in a car, but when I ride the motorcycle, I always have 100 octane in it. Because for the same litter of gas, it produces more power. You can ride with 90 octane or 92, but it'll go like that. The same goes for this. If you eat food that is coming from very rich soil, you can run faster. The volume of food that you need will come down.

What this means is the amount of process. See, digestive process is a very, what to say, a taxing process for the body. It's very taxing. The quicker and easier you can digest your food and less you can digest and more energy you can release is a huge advantage. One reason why most human beings are sleeping 8, 10 hours a day, is simply because of the type of food they're eating.

If they ate food which comes from rich land, less food would take care of our requirement. This would unfold human capabilities and human genius in ways that you cannot imagine. This is why in the yogic culture, first thing is you eat spaced out. now everybody's talking about, you know, just 10 years ago, they all said every two hours, three hours, you must eat a meal. The same people are now talking about intermittent fasting.

Well, your opinions are changing like this. Does it mean to say human body evolved significantly in the last 10 years? We've been saying the same thing for 10,000 years. But unfortunately, everything has to be proven in the lab. Somebody tried to be different every time. No, all these things have economic possibilities. Yeah. That's what I mean. If I say an apple a day will prevent you from going to a doctor or whatever,

then you start eating apples. If I am an apple grower, that's good. Otherwise, I'll say a strawberry a day will do that. A egg a day will do that, you know? It depends who you are. What's your business? Wow. Are you more optimistic now than you would have been five?

Years ago, 30 years ago, about achieving whatever you mentioned in 8 to 12 years, 3%, hopefully a lot higher than 3% richness. See, will the world move in the direction, definitely? It's a pace that we are concerned about. Yeah. So if there are no extraneous political and military situations, I think we can achieve it. But moment these situations come, a certain fallback will happen.

But it could also be seen another way of military and war situations and political situations create a certain level of insecurity. This may also happen faster in many other parts of the world. See, right now, people were depending for 40% of the world's wheat comes from Russia and Ukraine. It's a... Okay. One second. So what it means is in large parts of the world,

where people are, food is not growing. Food must always grow where people are. One exotic fruit, you can bring it from New Zealand and eat your kivy fruit. But general diet must be growing where people are, at least within a minimum radius. Right now, your food is coming from somewhere else, from another continent. This is not the way to structure human societies, because this will lead to enslaving societies.

This will lead to all kinds of exploitation. It may end up with a terrible famine and mass deaths very easily. Food must grow where people are, at least the basic food. Now, am I trying to destroy the international food industry? No. But basic food in food that we need must grow where people are. If we don't take care of that, we're going to pay a heavy price. It can happen any time.

It can happen any time. But in my estimates, it can happen very soon. Because by 2032, it is expected. 3.5 billion people will be water stressed. That means daily drinking water will be a challenge for 3.5 billion people. If, let us say, 5% or 10% of the population in your city, wherever you live, have not had water to drink today, do you think you are safe on the street? Do you think your home is safe? Will it be a place to live?

Do you think your women and children are safe? No. I'm saying we'll dismantle human civilizations once again. Once there are food shortages and water shortages, this thousand years of civilization will break up in two days' time. So we must understand sufficient food and water. Whatever else may be there are not there. Clean air, pure water and reasonably nutritious food

Always must be there for every population if you want to build human civilization. If you want to build human consciousness, this is even more important. Right. This message, I think, needs to be amplified. Not only with the policy makers or politicians, but they're kids.

We're always trying to fix the children. I don't really look at life like that. I think one person who needs minimum fixing on the planet is a child. But somehow everybody thinks they need the maximum fixing. No, it's so that they talk to their parents. If it doesn't get to the ears of their parents. Parents deaf or something else, only the children should speak. Sometimes parents listen to their kids more.

No, unfortunately, that is the way we are looking at it. No, that's not the way. Tell me who should be telling whom. Adults should be telling the children or children should be telling the adults. How foolish and an ignorant life you must be living if your five or eight-year-old child is coming and telling you, you're destroying the planet, do something about it. How bad should you be?

I would be ashamed if my child told me that. I am the one telling that. I know. I know. And I don't know. Everywhere people say this, Sadd Guru, let's go to the schools, let's make the children. I said, leave the children alone.

till they're 15 years of age, let them grow up without a damn concern in the world. Let them play, let them grow, let them learn, let them do whatever. Don't burden them with your silly problems, problems that you created. If you have any dignity, before your children grow up, let's fix the damn thing. They shouldn't even know that there was something wrong and we fixed it. That is a good parent, isn't it? Absolutely. We got to do whatever we can do to help amplify this message.

I think it's a very powerful message. Yes, sir, most needed. If we don't do it, we'll regret. I want to move on to a different topic. You know, the Greeks had a term called stoicism. You have a term called yoga. Explain the difference between stoicism and yoga. See,

Being stoic is keeping a certain length of distance from what's happening around you and acting a little peaceful. If you are being killed right now, I will keep a little distance and stay peaceful. If that's happening to me, then how do I keep distance? If you can be stoic about your own death and torture and whatever else that happens, fantastic. I am stoic about other people suffering. This is no good, you have just mortigated your humanity. Yoga is not about that.

The word yoga means union. When I say union, say, uh, right now that is you, this is me. That means that's your body, this is my body. That's your mind, this is my mind. No way, these two things are going to be one. But suppose, if I do that, tomorrow, they'll bury me somewhere here, and you will die after 100 years. Suppose they bury you here.

Your body and my body will have no problem becoming the same soil, isn't it? Hello? Yeah. So even now, it's the same, essentially, same material. But in our minds, we have this silly ideas. Okay? So I'm saying you're already in union with everything. You're breathing.

You're one with atmosphere, isn't it? You're eating food from this earth. You're one with the earth. You're one with everything. But it's not there in your experience. The method of bringing that into your experience. The method of consciously obliterating the illusory boundary of your individuality is yoga.

This is not a philosophy. This is not an attitude that you take about others. This is coming to experience reality as it is. When I say reality as it is, is it true that your existence is not individualistic here? It's only your ideas, your thoughts and your emotions are individualistic. You can't exist here for a moment without everything else. This is what we're talking about safe soil means. Without those microorganisms, which is a foundational life for your existence,

you cannot exist without them. Maybe you can't see them. But without them, you cannot exist. What you exhale right now, the trees are inhaling. What the trees exhale, you're inhaling. It's already one. One half of your lungs are hanging out there. But you don't experience it.

But if you did experience it, after that, do I have to tell you, don't cut this tree, don't harm this, preserving environment, nonsense, do you need any teachings? If you experience it as a part of yourself, you will do the best you can do, isn't it?

So this is yoga. It is not an attitude. It is not a philosophy. It is not an ideology. It is just obliterating the boundaries that we have created for survival and knowing life the way it is. You know. So we are not stoic. We are super involved, but still untouched. I'm into everybody's lives, but still untouched. I'm not keeping a distance. Yeah.

Absolutely involved. but still untouched. It's been an amazing conversation. You know, I drove here. I drove all the way here to the middle part of Tennessee. Why in Tennessee? Because I'm here. At that time, most of our activity was happening

in northern part of the United States in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio. This is where our activity was. When we thought of setting up a center, I looked around, I drove around a little bit in the country. Motorcycle or in a car? No, at that time I was driving. For almost 30 years, I never rode a motorcycle.

It's only now I'm back on. So when I saw the country and various other things, also in this region I experienced something somewhere close by here and then I started looking up about the geography and whatever this geography is very interesting and

as you can see it's fantastic if you had come here two weeks ago this land was like painted it's beautiful the foliage yeah fall colors were so absolutely spectacular so terrain Reason-wise, it's perfect for our kind of thing.

And another reason is we wanted a large acreage of land because we are not one of those popular pop spirituality which pops up in a city, cater to the city folk and whatever. Here, if you want to push you something seriously, that's when this is relevant to you. If you want to do pop kind of spiritual process, There are many places. We can also offer something digitally here, there.

You do something simple. It's done. But if you were pursuing something, then you need an atmosphere. It can't be in the middle of everything happening. So the distance from the cities was ideal for us. We're just an hour and a half from Nashville, a little over two hours from Atlanta, 45 to 50 minutes from Chattanooga. So it's ideally located that way. Terrain is absolutely beautiful.

And from where we are, within 12-hour drive is 60% of the U.S. population. That was an important factor for me. Even today, when there are programs, people just drive overnight and come here, drive through the day and here by evening. Except for California, what is that, Seattle, and that West Coast. except that everything else is reasonably within 12-hour drive from New York to all these places. So that's an important part. Plus there is a certain history to this place, which also I wanted to fix in some way.

So we are going to consecrate this part of the land significantly so that everything changes about it. Was there a special energy that you felt about? Not like that. This is, in a way, we are very close to the beginning of what is historically called as the Trail of Tears. I thought there was too much pain it needs to go. Yeah. Let me ask you the last question. That's not good.

That's sounding like a threat to me. No, no, no. This is a student asking a teacher. What does happiness mean to you? And I guess there's a subset to this question. Does happiness mean differently to everybody? Is there a universal definition of happiness? See, if you become pleasant in your body,

we call this health. If this becomes very pleasant, we call it pleasure. If your mind becomes pleasant, we call it peace. If it becomes very pleasant, we can say you're happy or joyful or something. If your emotions become pleasant, we call this love. If it becomes very pleasant, we call it compassion. If your very life energies become pleasant, we call this bliss. If it becomes very pleasant, we call it ecstasy.

If our surroundings become pleasant, we call this success. Only to make surroundings pleasant, we need to seek the assistance of other people, other forces, various skills to be gathered, all this, to create pleasantness in our surroundings. But to make this body, this mind, this emotion and energy pleasant, is 100% your business, isn't it? So instead of looking for definition of happiness, let me put it this way.

Do you want your experience of life pleasant or unpleasant? Pleasant. Pleasant. How pleasant. As much as possible or 50% will do? Adequately pleasant. Doesn't have to be as much as possible. As much as possible.

Yeah. That means you are thinking of how to be ecstatic. But now you're settling for happiness. Because you're given up on ecstasy. Many people have given up on happiness. And they're looking for peace. Many people have given up peace and they will only rest in peace. They are thinking, if I live without any trouble, it's enough.

Many people have given up that. Inevitably they are in trouble. If the trouble is minimal, it's good enough. I'm saying these are all things that you set up. I'm asking you, as a child, as a youth, or even as an adult, whatever is the most beautiful moment of your life in terms of your experience, not in terms of arrangements. Not in terms of family, career, this, that.

within you, what was the most fantastic moment in your experience? That moment, whatever it was, you are capable of that much experience. So at least that you must set it as a baseline. How joyful you were in a given moment, in your entire life, what was the highest moment? That should be the baseline because you're capable of that. So in your life, if you do not know, No, if you do not do what you cannot do, no problem.

But if you do not do what you can do, it's a disastrous life. This is the disaster, the problem with most human beings. Even what they can do, they're not doing. What is the most joyful? What is the most loving? What is the most ecstatic moment in my life? That should at least be the baseline, isn't it? Because you're capable of that.

I'm not asking you to do something that you're not capable of. what you're capable of if you don't do, somewhere you have not even begun to appreciate the life that you are. Isn't it? Yeah. See, the grasshopper, the moment his tiny little stomach is full,

he's tan, tan, tan, full on. Hello? He's singing away, doing everything that he wants. Your stomach is full, but no. this is a unique human problem. In southern India, even today, it may be there in Indonesia also, probably, in local languages. If you meet somebody in the villages, even today,

the only question they'll ask is, is happening, what are it? This means, have you eaten? Nobody will ask you, how do you do? No such thing. Because if you have eaten, what other problem can you have? Yeah. Other problems are all self-made.

It's understood. Suppose I didn't get food to eat. It's a situational issue. I'll have to sort it out. But my stomach is full and I'm not happy. You shouldn't look at the world. You must look at fixing this one, isn't it? So do not set how much percentage of pleasantness you want.

Whatever is the highest level of pleasantness you experience, that should become the baseline. And we will see if there are bigger. things possible. Otherwise, you think this is not a good place to live, you want to go there. Everybody who believes that they are going to a much better place than here, why are they waiting? If they are so sure there is a better place up there

and everything there is better than this place, what are you waiting for? At least you must get there before I come because I may take the best accommodation. No, I'm saying we are trying to fill the void of our ignorance with all kinds of beliefs so that we feel confident living here because you have not been conscious of your mortal nature. Once in a way, when your friend dies,

you look at the funeral and think, oh my God, it could be me. Then it terrifies you. to how to cross this bridge, it doesn't matter. Anyway, I'm going to, that place, which is better than this place. If that place is better than this, why are you wasting your time here? You should go? No, that's not how it works, isn't it? So I am not trying to denigrate anything.

All I'm saying is human intelligence should be used to penetrate the nature of creation and the source of creation. not conclude from somebody else. So always we are looking for an authority of a scripture, of a preacher, of a guru, or somebody else who said that, or somebody who we think is God. You're looking for an authority because you have no clue what is the truth. If you make authority the truth, many ugly things will happen.

Truth is the only authority. This is yoga. No conclusions. Just seek. Develop. You can only genuinely seek when you realize that you genuinely do not know. Then if you realize I do not know and hold that awareness, seeking, longing and the possibility of knowing are not far away.

It's right here. But we are closing the doors upon ourselves and claiming darkness. So to change this is the goal of conscious planet. And we are empowered like never before coming back to your first question. This is a first time we can sit here and talk to the entire world. When we have such an opportunity, if we do not create the world that we want to live in, at least start moving in that direction.

It shows we don't have enough love in our hearts for the world. around us, the life around us. So this is the best time that way. Otherwise, how could you talk to the whole world? Today, our average video reach annually is around 2.5 billion. Never before anything spiritual has gone like this. I'm saying 8, 10, 12 year old children are listening

by themselves, not forced by anybody. It's never happened. Amazing. When I was 12 years, of age, nobody could make me listen to anything spiritual, all right? It was simply impossible. But today they are seeking and listening. Yeah.

So you must understand the more confusion you see in human mind, the more seeking will happen. Confusion is way better than stupid conclusions. Because confusion at least brings some humility to a human being. Conclusions bring arrogance to a human being. Wow. I don't know what else to ask. Thank you so much, Sad Guru. That was a fascinating discussion with Sad Guru, the founder of Isha Foundation.

Thank you very much. The temperatures were over 50 degrees. Well, right now they may not be punching you. But there is a very good. So I was there for one of the people.