Endless Thread - Best of Summer: Swimming Hole - The man, the myth, the leap

Episode Date: July 7, 2023

In this summer-y episode of Endless Thread, Ben and Amory take a leap of faith (or do they?) to the depths of an upstate New York swimming hole with a legend surrounding it that's almost as shadowy as exact it's location.

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WBUR Podcasts, Boston. All right, Amory, see if you can finish this drum fill for me. You ready? Yeah. Dit, did, did to did did to did. Did I nail it? I'm looking for more of a bw-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-d-wwwww. Yeah.

Yeah, that's it. Do you know this song I'm talking about? I thought I did and now I'm less sure. That girl is poison. Oh, yeah. But you were probably listening to summer jams in the 90s, weren't you? Yeah, but my summer jams were like, you know what I associate with summer in the 90s? Let's go.

Let's go. Gray song. That's like, every morning there's a halo. Yeah. Anything. From the corner of my girlfriend's Poppaws, Ben.

Yeah. Where is this going, Ben? I mean, straight hits. I'm with you. This is where this is going. During the month of July, Amory, we are bringing our listeners

endless threads, summer jams. Clever girl. Okay, yes. This is what we're calling our special set of our best, most refreshing, summer fun episodes of all time from amongst our, what, 276 episodes I see in our archive? Yeah, we've had 276 drops.

Okay. Isn't that wild? We're bringing you our favorite stuff, our favorite summery, citrusy, flowy, glowy stuff. Light, flowy, glowy. And that's because we're working on a new series for you. you about parks that is coming out very soon. And by the way, yes, if you have a park story that you're interested in and want to send

our way, please do. But in the meantime, you can sit back, you can recline in your floaty pool thing, you know, grab a snack and drink, put your big beach hat on, and listen to our summer jam number one. It's a wet and wild one. Swimming hole. The man, the myth, the leap. Here goes. Amory, how many times have I told you this story?

Which one? Zero. You know it's about a swimming hole, right? All I remember is that there's an old man. Mm-hmm. Who is like the troll of the hole. Whole troll. Maybe you'd better start at the beginning.

So this is a story that is going to start way off the internet. Like so far off the internet that there's no cell service, okay? Ooh. And then it's a story that's going to go onto the internet. Okay. And then it's a story that's going to go back off the internet. But it really starts with this journey that I was taking, I want to say more than 10 years ago on a regular basis.

Over 10 years ago, I was living in New York City, and I had friends who lived up in the Catskills in upstate New York. And I was going to visit them on a regular basis, mostly when the weather was nice in the countryside and not nice in the city, aka that hot-ass summertime. And this thing started to happen to me that started to make me feel like I was seeing things, which was a particular stretch of road that I would take between. upstate New York and the Catskills and New York City runs through a gorge. You'd get driving down this gorge, and this gorge is like, it's a little steep.

It's like a steep and windy road that runs next to a creek that goes between some kind of high kind of cliffs. I kept seeing this thing that looked like a hallucination, which was in the top, in the tippy, tippy top of this. tree, which is basically like a Dr. Seuss tree, if that makes any sense. It is like, it's spindly, it's small, it's like weird looking. This is not like a strong looking tree. In the top branch of this tree was standing an old man in wet swim trunks. And I kept seeing this guy, this like mysterious old man. kept seeing the guy again and again.

And then about, I'm going to say about six years ago, I finally stopped. And I found one of the craziest swimming holes I've ever seen. Crazy how? I mean, it's not just like a spot that has deep enough water to swim in. This is a huge waterfall with a deep, deep, deep, deep, dark, watery hole at the bottom of it. And the jump is scary how high it is. And there's rock everywhere.

And the locals were jumping from this spot that was like right next to the waterfall into the hole. They, they're all wearing shoes because apparently you can hit the bottom when you jump into the swimming hole. And so, of course, me being me, I just. start talking to these kids. I'm like, okay, look, have you guys ever seen a guy in a tree here? And they go, oh yeah, that's the mayor.

Of the swimming hole or of the town that the swimming hole is presumably in? Great question. So what I remember from this conversation with these local kids was that they said that he was the mayor of the town at the top of the gorge. And not only is he the mayor, but he was recently challenged in the race for mayor in this small upstate New York town. He dared his opponent to jump from the top of the tree into the swimming hole. And his opponent chickened out, and the mayor won re-election. Even at the time, I was like, okay, it seems like possible even likely that they would be

pulling my leg, right? Maybe it's just a story people tell around here, you know, like a local legend. Well, the local legend got even crazier. The mayor, they said, was jumping from the top of the tree. into the swimming hole. It's sort of hard to tell how high, but I've never seen a jump spot that high in person. And I've been wanting to do this story for a long time,

but I have to admit, like, I've been kind of scared to do it too because it's such a good story. Why ruin it by gathering the facts? You know, Emery, like, don't meet your heroes, right? But this summer something clicked. And I was like, Amory, you and me, we got to go on this adventure. You know me. I'm always down for a road trip.

Less down for a high jump. Moderately down for a swim. I don't even know if I still have a swimsuit. I need to prepare. You better get ready. Okay. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. I'm Amory Severson.

And you're listening. to endless thread. We're coming to you from WBUR, Boston's NPR Swimming Hole. Today's episode? The man, the myth, the legend. The leap. So a few weeks after that conversation with Amory, we got in the car and got rolling. Two things should be stated here, if they aren't already obvious.

Number one, I love swimming holes. That was obvious. But also swimming holes, their location, how to get to them, at least in this part of the country, the northeast. they're kind of secret knowledge. They're passed via word of mouth. It's considered in some circles not cool to put information about them on the internet.

At least that's how it's been for decades. And that's changing. The Instagramification of everything. Exactly. Which means a bunch of Jemokes crowding the parks to get the best shot, hiking up the mountains without the proper equipment, blowing up the spot, the swimming spot.

And yet, At the same time, swimming holes are also this wonderful thing. They're places for everyone and anyone. There's no gated community, no rent-a-cop checking to see if your car has the right sticker for the beach lot, no $20 to park. You don't need an ID. You just need to have the secret knowledge of location and approach. You hopefully need a respect for nature.

Speaking of which, boy, did we pick a hot day to go on a swimming hole treasure hunt? How do you feel about being in a car on a day with 91 degrees? With the windows up. With the windows up and the air conditioner off because it's broken. I feel bad, but also this is so typical. So typical. Typical that I'm told we're going to a swimming hole. Ben.

Maybe. Ben is, okay, we're maybe going to a swimming hole. Ben is like, I forgot my swim trunks. Ben, who's like a fish who swims in the pond every morning, forgets his swim trunks. I mean, all you really need to swim is underwear or an ability to be fine with being in wet clothing for a little while or to be okay with maybe swimming in the buff. You swim in the buff all you want, Ben, but not with me. Yeah, hopefully not with a professional colleague. I did plan on swimming in my shorts even if it was dang hot.

On a scale of one to full luge, how sweaty is your back right now? It's pretty gross. Yeah. I mean, I don't know if you... I was going to say, I don't know if you want the gory details, but the gory details are just... It's sweaty. My back is sweaty.

Same. Yeah, and unlike you who forgot your swim trunks... I think we're bringing sweaty back. I'm wearing a swimsuit under this dress. I may have forgotten my swimis, but I did. have a plan. Plan seems generous in this case. Well, you know, Amory, you've really just been lollygagging during COVID and not working that hard.

Maybe you needed to get back into fighting shape as a reporter. You're going to tap into your roots, and we're going to go to the town at the bottom of the gorge. And you, Amory Sievertson, have to figure out where this place is and who this guy is. without use of the internet. So we're going to the town and then we're unleashing your weighty journalism skills upon this town. This is how you get around having to do any work. Oh no, I've done some work. Don't get me wrong. I've done some work.

Okay. But I feel like you must also go on a journey so that we can be on the journey together. And so I think you... It is true that a few weeks before I had done some reporting of this story, so I did have a plan. Drop Amory in the little upstate New York town of Palinville and see where her reporter's nose led her. Yeah, except you rushed me the whole time. We were on a schedule. We started with Ben careening off the road into the parking lot of a golf course to accost a man who had been flying his drone.

Hey, drone flight gives you pretty good birds-eye view of the landscape. Maybe he had some drone footage of our spot. Yeah, except while you did bound up to this poor gentleman because he had a drone and New York plates. Is this guy bothering you? Hi, how you doing? Hi, I'm Amory. We quickly learned something about Jim Howell.

Oh, you're from Boston, no I? You're from Boston? Yeah. Quincy? I live in Quincy. Jim, originally a Bostonian or a Quincyon and his wife, own a place in New York City now. But they've been living in Palinville during COVID. Needed to get out of the city, I guess.

And he did have some intel. There is one place where I think people go swimming. I've never seen them, but there are cars parked there and people wander off in other woods than any of them. Caz pot. You can take a Quincy boy to New York City, but it'll always be from Boston. Jim said this place was at a tight bend in the road

that winds through the gorge above the town of Palinville. Maybe near a place called North-South Lake. Further in, it's a fairly rough walk getting in there. Jim also said it was dangerous. It is quite common to have ambulances going up there because people have slipped and fallen. This was good information, but did Jim know the legend, a particular swimming hole jumper who was maybe a local mayor?

And have you heard anything about a gentleman that sits in a tree? No. No. No. So we had to keep looking. Is there like a downtown or like a town square, something like that, like up 23A? Yeah, this is this way, about five, six hundred feet down. Oh, okay, so we're close.

And that's where you begin the ascent up into the mountains as well. Bye, Quincy Jim. About 600 feet later, we found a sandwich shop and general store called the CircleW in a library, which we will come back to, literally. I cannot believe you led me on this wild goose chase, and yet I can completely believe you led me on this wild goose chase. I live for the chase, Amory, live for the chase. Clearly, but I guess I do too.

Hey, do you have a second to chat? I'll be very brief, I promise. Do you know of any swimming holes? No, I'm actually not really from around here. I'm like from yonkers. Like, you know, I'm just up here for camping. Oh, up here from camping. Nobody here is from here.

Yet, but they are trying to help the best they can. Including this guy who introduces himself as Pedro. I mean, what kind of swimming hole is it? What we've heard is that there's... It's a windy road. Windy road. There's a little bit of legend around this. It's, I guess, based on what others have told me in town so far,

is that it's at the top of North-South Lake. The closest thing that I could imagine is heading in that direction that I told you once you hit the stewards make that right. There's like if you see parked cars on like, you know, on that winding road that heads in that direction, chances are there's a swimming hole nearby. Parked cars along the side of the road, take a right at the Stewart's gas station. Thank you, Pedro. I would vote for Pedro. As would I.

Pedro, thank you. No, anytime. All right. Enjoy the day. Appreciate it. Take care. I would also vote for you keeping your recording kit a little less tangled as we leave Pedro and head into the Circle W. It's been too long since you've been in the field.

You just don't know what you're doing it anymore. No, I feel like this never used to be this long. You are so annoying. I'm like, I will locate. You're a little rusty, I feel like, you know? The woman we first meet at the counter, turns out, does not want to be interviewed, even though she is from town and knows about the local swimming holes. But her fellow sandwich slinger is open to it, Danny Rendell.

He says he's media trained. I am media trained. In fact, he says he was a QVC presenter for three years selling women's fashion. Now he's living in the area, making sandwiches, and telling stories to non-locals about the area's wealth of waterfalls. Catterskill Falls is probably the most famous of our falls here, but there's a number of other falls that I'm not at liberty to give away to the broader public. Oh, because they're like local. People want to keep them local. Yeah, yeah. This area has

shifted a lot. I mean, there's always been a city, country, malange since the 50s and beyond. But it's definitely changed a lot since COVID. But yeah, I mean, we're open to share all this, and the nature has given us a lot of juicy goodies. Juicy goodies for me and Amory, though. We're not locals. Damn it. Well, he did provide some tasty morsels for legend seekers. So there was always like a mystic element to the forest of this area. And they're fay and it's like native.

Nothing super specific, though. So we got some tasty morsel sandwiches from Danny and his anonymous co-workers, one of whom, as we were leaving, pulled me aside and underscored Danny's point about this rising tension. Between the locals and non-locals, who have been coming from all over, especially during COVID, getting in trouble, getting hurt, leaving trash. She says there are annual deaths connected to the waterfalls in the gorge, or people needing to be airlifted out.

But the old man in the tree, she didn't have anything to say about that. So we head out and sit down next to the road to do the most important thing we've done all day so far. Amory is slamming a Sammy. We're both slamming a Sammy, but we're honest, a bit of a bit of deadline, so we got to keep going. You ready for the last stop? Actually, the second to last stop? The second to last stop.

Yes, my plan was taking shape. The next stop was a place we'd seen on the way into town. The Palinville Branch Catskill Library. So this was the first call I made. Oh, all right. Well, then here we go.

And admittedly, I used the internet. I use the internet to find the spot, I'd stopped and visited all those years ago on the map. And then I searched for the closest library because I come from a family of librarians. So when I first said about getting answers to this story, a few weeks before I forgot my swimmies, before Emery was bringing sweaty back, this was my first call. So in the library, this is Alex. I'm on a strange mission.

And I'm wondering if I can get a help from a librarian. We can definitely try. What's going on? With help from Allie, I found a librarian named Joy, and Joy was my jackpot. I am from the mountaintop area, and I've lived there for quite a while. But I'm not sure she said about a mayor, something about a mayor. Joy wasn't just Ben's jackpot. She was also my true joy to meet in person. I'm looking for someone named Joy. I'm Joy.

You're Joy. Yes, I am. I'm Amory. Hi, Amory. And maybe you've been talking to meet you. Hi. Nice to meet you too. So I've been told that I should talk to you because I'm on a quest to find a swimming hole. Okay.

With a very steep drop to it, a very high drop. Yes. And Ben has heard some kind of legend about an older gentleman that sits in a tree that's at the top of this drop. All right, you're laughing. This is good. I feel good about this. What do you do you, first of all, do you know what swimmer? hole I'm talking about.

I would say fawn's leap. Fawns leap. It's called Fawn's leap. Okay, fawn like baby deer. Fawn's leap. And how far, how high of a drop is it actually? Because Ben's been telling me like 65 feet. I would say probably about that.

Okay, so that's not an exaggeration. If you are going to climb on one of the trees. Fawn's Leap, not any number of other spots we'd heard about along the way. North-South Lake, which is a very confusing name, or Catterskill Falls. which was close by, but not right. Fawn's Leap. Joy has never leapt herself, but there's a very pleasant teenage bookworm nearby who may have.

Sebastian, have you ever been on Fawn's Leap? Have you ever jumped off Fawn's Leap? My father used to bring me when I was a kid. I never jumped. He did. I did not. Whoa. And he lived to tell the tale?

He did, multiple times, actually. Wow. He, this sounds terrible. It wasn't as bad. as it sounds, he pushed my mom off of Lon's Leave. Oh my God. He was a, he was jumping off and she was like really scared to do it. So she actually just gave her a little nudge.

And she ended up surviving too. Still alive to tell the tale. Are they still married is the question. They're not. But unrelated, please. Shirley unrelated. Oh, my God. Joy and Sebastian tell Amory exactly where to find Fonzleap.

Apparently, there's even a historic New York State signed for it. But I already know where it is. Like I said, I've been there before. And I had made some calls to the library and... Yeah, hi, I'm looking for Hassan. Speaking. Amory is about to learn something else Joy told me a few weeks back. He's been jumping there forever.

So that might be who you're referring to. Wow. Yeah, and I know up until probably two years ago that he was still jumping. I haven't seen him in a while. Yeah. Who is it? Yeah. His name is Hassan.

He's been in the papers. First name is Hassan? Basajic. Bessagic. Yeah. He's the Undertaker. He's been the Undertaker there for as long as it. That's where he goes to find his clientele?

Maybe, yeah. The Undertaker. The Undertaker, which for this led to him. is almost better than the mayor. Oh, absolutely. A trip up the mountain to see the Undertaker in a minute. At Radio Lab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry. But we do also like to get into other kinds of stories, stories about policing or politics, country music, hockey, sex, of bugs.

Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity. to get you the answers. And hopefully make you see the world anew. Radio Lab, Adventures on the Edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcasts. There is something powerful about the sound of the human voice. Beautifully produced audio has the unique power to connect and inspire. Tell your organization's story with a custom podcast from City Space Productions,

the creative studio from WBUR's Business Partnerships Team. Become a thought leader. Recruit new talent. reach new audiences, whatever your goal, we can help. Discover how the magic is made at WBUR.org slash creative studio. So this story started off the internet. And you also said I couldn't use the internet to do my own research while trying to find the origin of this story.

Apparently, Hassan Bessagic, the man, is not the mayor. So that was a myth. But is he a legend? Yes, that's correct. They have knighted me as a legend. And as Joy, the librarian, knows he's been a local legend for a long time. But that legend is changing. This is where the story goes back onto the internet for a second.

When I got Hassan on the phone a few weeks back, he told me about something that has happened over the last decade or so. While I was dragging my feet on searching out the man in the tree, other people were discovering him and starting to tell his story. on the internet. Barstool Sports. London Daily Mail. New York Post. Well, ESP. In the New York Times, there was a video called In Search of a Watery Eden. Eventually, a guy like Hassan doing what Hassan does had to go viral. And as the gorge has become more popular, it's popped up on social media, too.

Especially if you're looking for cliff jumper content. YouTubers have put together smash cuts of jumping off all the upstate New York spots with a cool soundtrack. And of course, there's Fawn's Leap. Sure enough, the YouTube creators using go-pros and drones to capture themselves doing daring flips found Hassan as well as the swimming hole. There he is in the video. An old man at the top of a spindly tree waving a tiny American flag before he jumps into the water. But I mean, you can watch a YouTube video on your phone all day long, and it'll never give you the real thing. So let's get back off the internet and into Ben's hot-ass car.

And get rolling up the gorge to start looking for other vehicles parked on the side of the road. Supposedly, the legend is saving us a spot. This gorge is breathtaking, by the way. Straight up into the Catskill Mountains we go, with Ben driving way too fast. Very windy. Not sure what the speed limit is. Oh, there we go. 20 miles an hour, which you're definitely not doing.

What's the speed limit? 20. Oh, I'm going 50. 50. I did slow down. You kind of need to because of how windy the road is. And because all along the road, with barely any space or shoulders between the cars and the guardrail border overlooking the gorge, there are people walking. All kinds of people.

There are cliffs all around and trees. It's a state park. And you can tell why. It's gorgeous. No time for bad jokes, Amory, because something is about to happen. Okay, we've got another collection of cars. Here are all these people. Got a lot of locals that look like they're in swim trunks.

Hassan. Yes, sir. All right. Hi. What did she say? She said, are you the guy? Yeah. As we pull up to the tiny spot where cars can pull off and see Hassan holding a spot for us,

a woman recognizes the cliff jumping legend, an actual local celebrity spotting right on cue. Hi. Sorry. It's so thrilling to meet you. I got some junk here for you. Oh, thank you for the junk. Thank you. Amazing.

Junk as in a pile of articles from publications that have been written about Hassan over the years. The man, the myth, the legend, in the flesh. It's a little dicey to do introductions in this particular parking spot. Not a lot of space and the cars and trucks barreling down the gorge. who, who. Stop the wind of that one. Okay, I'm going to give this to you for a second.

Yep, yep. If he hits me, he's going to have a lot of paperwork. Spoken like a true, like a true undertaker. Yes. There you go. Hasson is 77 years old now, but he looks kind of ageless. I was hoping for a Rip Van Winkle beard, but I'll settle for a very energetic fella with a happy smile

and this kind of twinkle in his eye. He starts leading us up the road towards Fonz Leap. Hassan's giving us the full tour from the roadside, pointing out other spots in the creek. Look at Ratshole. Wow. That's what this is, rats hole. It's sort of a deeper blue. It's beautiful. He talks a lot about all the people who come from all over.

It's safe to say Hassan doesn't feel that local, non-local tension, at least not in his heart. And we have different groups coming all the time. and one week it'll be the Asians. This week there's a crew from Uzbekistan, he says. Last week it was South America. We go at a pretty good clip up the gorge. Joy told us another bit of trivia about our legend here. He's also known for running marathons,

and people see him running up and down the mountain. And even though some atrial fibrillation cooled off his marathoning, Hassan's still hoofing up here to jump. We reached the spot, a tight turn in the road, in that New York State historical sign we were looking out for. But according to legend, a fawn pursued by a dog

tried to jump the chasm and failed. The rock formation in waterfalls has been a favorite spot of artists and photographers for centuries. Let's go. Okay. We're going to cross over here. Go bye. Bye.

A hop, skip, and a jump over the guardrail, and threw a bit of trees and were standing on knee-wobbling cliffs above Fonzleap. Three sheer walls and boulders piled up around a waterfall and a black hole of water that seems to want to suck you over the ledge and into its center. There's a crowd of young men here, some jumping, some trying to get the courage to jump. Hassan tells us, every time it doesn't get old four or five times a day. No, it doesn't get old. And I've been, just the years slipped by so quickly. That summer goes by like in a flash.

You know, it doesn't last long enough for us, you know. Oh, I do know, Hassan, I do. True fact, Ben took us on this crazy road trip on his birthday because this is his idea of a good time. This was a birthday treat for me, for sure. Today, it's locals and some guys from the U.S. Army wrestling team, trying to squeeze out some late summer vibes before the fall season starts. They're jumping from the spillway below us, a 29-foot drop.

But Hassan jumps from all the spots. Not to brag, but I mean, I've always, I mean, I've met people who can do at least some of the things I can do, but not all of the things that I can do. Hassan says he grew up in Mononga, West Virginia, before coming up to New York as a young man. He describes it as a Tom Sawyer life, swimming holes, living in nature. He's been jumping off things since he was a little kid. In the just shy of 50 years, Hassan says he's been jumping here.

The highest spot was the tree, which most people agree was about 70 feet above the water's surface. But about a year ago, Park Rangers cut it down. Hassan says it got to be what they might call a little bit. little gnarly. Along with the growing tension between locals and Instagramming out of towners, there's also some tension between the authorities and the thrill seekers. But Hassan says he's built a good relationship with them. He was the one who tied a bunch of ropes up around this spot to help people scramble back up from the water to the cliffs after a jump, or repel onto the waterfall safely from the road, which, thank you, Hassan. Oh my God. You okay? Yes, you just wiggled

the rope. Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to wiggle. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't need to wiggle. I'm Sorry. Sorry. I'll stop wiggling. I'm going to go here and let you go down because you're wiggling too much. Am I wiggling too much? It wasn't that bad. So the legend tells us the tree is gone, though we can still see the stump. Also, though he has had to run for the elected office of coroner in the county and was once on the town board, he's never run for mayor or challenged an opponent. That part is definitely a myth. You're the mayor of Fonsley.

Yeah, you know, and the thing I would, if you remember anything about me, please remember that I love everyone from my heart. Just everyone in general? Yes. I love everyone. We will remember that about Hassan, but we'll also remember the jumps, the first of which is close to the road where you scramble over the guardrail, and it has to be a good 45-5.

feet. Amory and I are now watching from the waterfall. Did you hear the story about him? No. What is it? Did we get that on video? Do you guys just get that on video? I didn't catch him in the water. I'm too afraid to go too far out. You have to get a good running start to clear some rock outcroppings. It is nuts. I could barely watch that. Then Hassan moves up to a boulder, the highest spot next to the falls. The boulder is in this slow motion, eons long tumble into the falls,

and you have to run down it at what feels like a 45 degree angle to jump into the falls. Only one of the young guys here will try it after watching Hassan. The groups of men jumping here are all taken with Hassan, and they all want to take pictures with him. At the bottom of the falls after a bunch of leaps, they gather around him in a circle, like it's story time,

listening to the elder statesman, But not all his stories are good ones. A couple of years ago, we lost Benjamin Bocler, who was a West Point cadet. And he was here in the morning with his buddy. And he was walking down underneath over here. The West Point cadet was climbing around under the falls in 2019, and a large chunk of rock fell on top of him and killed him. Hassan's funeral home took care of the young man's body.

He talks a lot about safety, how jumping at the falls is done best when there are others around in case there's a mishap. How do you think about mortality? Like you're dealing with mortality in your work and you're also dealing with it here. Well, I'm Christian, yes. You're Christian? Yeah. Any denomination? I'm Catholic.

Catholic, okay. But I respect all religions, you know. Nickelbuffs, the Russian poet. Russian poets said, common sense tells us that our existence here is but a brief crack of light between two eternities of darkness. As it should be obvious, there is some toxic masculinity that plays into all of this, right? Guys urging each other to do crazier and crazier stunts and sometimes pushing women to do it too. These guys think they can peer pressure me.

They don't know me. I was on the fence about jumping, even though some of the guys were really trying to get me to. Hassan, though, basically told me, you do you. Everyone is different and different things going through their minds. And if they don't jump, it's not important. I always say if you don't jump, it's not important. So was it important to me? I certainly wasn't going to push you to do it,

but you definitely seemed to be considering it. What are you thinking? You thinking about it? Yeah, but I don't know. I don't know. That's that to you. While Amory considers it, I'm getting ready. So there's not a specific spot that I'm trying to hit.

Just go. I'm good. Was I good? I was not good. I was freaking out. Each minute that goes by, I'm like, fuck. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. This is a different, Ben, I have to say.

The scared Ben? Yeah. I mean, you're making lots of weird faces. I'm making the weird faces. Lots of like big, big smiles, big, like. Nervous smiles. Yeah. This is like emoji, Ben.

Yeah. I think now's the time for me to go if I'm going to go. Really? Yeah. Okay, Ben. You got this. I believe in you. Don't think too much.

One. Two. Good job, Ben. It was the best. So great. Everything I dreamed in more. This place is special. And for Hassan, it feels extra special.

As the crowds in recent years have swelled like the waters at the beginning of summer, and locals have complained about outsiders and trash. Hassan has brought down trash bags and cleaned up. No matter what. where people meet, there's refuse left. That doesn't mean all people leave refuse. During the pandemic, more and more people have come up here seeking nature. Hassan was quoted in a local newspaper story last summer, defending the out-of-town and out-of-country bathers from the local haters. He embodies that thing we were talking about earlier, the belief that this place

is for everyone. Which is good, because we should acknowledge that we are also our Outsiders, making an episode about a place that was once a little more secret. But the cat's out of the bag. It's already gone viral. And the mayor seems good with it, even touched by the people who come to see him. They make me cry. They do. So, you know, over the years I've met different ones all the time. Is it just that you feel like you have someone behind you, cheering you on? They really cheer me on. They give me an ovation.

But is that what makes you emotional? Just the feeling of having people. After all this time. They've been given it to me for years, you know. And that they recognize me still, you know. The tree may be cut down, and there might be some more trash. But the swimming hole remains pretty timeless. And the visitors are still paying respects to the mayor, like these Army cadets.

Gentlemen, take care. You too, sir. Get home safe. Thank you. Hey, we'll remember this day forever. Oh, thank you. I already sent photos to our family. Have a good one. Summer has to end, and our visit with Hassan does too. But we'll be back. I'm coming back next year. Oh, I'm coming too. And since, spoiler alert, I didn't end up jumping on this trip.

I'm jumping next time. happening. But like Hassan says, only if I want to. Although Hassan also says if you don't jump, it's not important, but you do have to collect 10 little stones from the gorge to take back with you. So it was a pleasure to meet you, folks. I'm telling you, it was great. Thank you so much. Yeah. This is so wonderful. Yeah. I'm glad I, it worked out. I'm glad I found you. Yeah, and you did a jump. I did a jump. Yeah. I'm so glad you cleared those rocks. Me too.

Time for credits and for me to pick up some stones. I see some pebble potential over here. Endless thread is a production of WBUR in Boston. Want early tickets to events, swag, bonus content, my list of top swimming holes, Amory's Weird Al Yankovic cover of Bringing Sweaty Back. Join our email list. You'll find it at WBUR.org.

That sounds like a challenge. Accepted. It is. It is. This episode was written, hosted and produced by yours truly, Ben Brock Johnson. Co-piloted and co-hosted by me, Amory Severson. Ah. Okay, I see one.

That's coming home with me. Editing help from the rest of the team, Dean Russell, Nora Sacks, Quincy Walters, Grace Tatter, Kristen Torres. Our web producer is Megan Citell. Our show was mixed and sound designed by Emily Jank. Markowski and Paul Vikis. Endless thread is a show about the blurred lines between digital communities and slamming Sammies before swimming in the buff with a bunch of wrestling army cadets.

Which I did not do, but... Neither did I, but, you know. But we did slam sammies. If you've got an untold history and unsolved mystery, a slam and Sammy or a wild story from the internet that you want us to tell, Hit us up. Email endless thread at WBUR.org. See you at the swimming hole.

The rest is not important. All right, that was summer jam number one. And we have another one for you coming up next week.