Endless Thread - Shaq Time: Is Shaq OK?

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Shaquille O'Neal has some advice: "If you are going to retire, accept it. Enjoy your family," he recently said on The Big Podcast With Shaq. "I made a lot of dumb mistakes to where I lost my family. I don't have anybody." His statement, directed at retiring NFL star Jason Kelce, raised concern online. "What happened with Shaq?" asked one Reddit user in a popular thread. "I thought he was [a] super nice guy. Why is he all alone?" The former four-time NBA champion has developed several personas since the Orlando Magic drafted him in 1992. On the court, he was a giant. Online, he became something different. Endless Thread breaks down the many sides of Shaq to answer the question, Is he OK? ===== Credits: This episode was written and produced by Ben Brock Johnson with help from Dean Russell. Mix and sound design by Emily Jankowski. The hosts are Amory Sivertson and Ben Brock Johnson.

Support for endless thread comes from MathWorks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink Software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at Mathworks.com. Support for WBUR comes from Is Business Broken, a podcast from the Mayrotra Institute at Boston University that explores questions like, why is innovation in healthcare so hard? Is ESG just greenwashing? of course, is business broken? Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. Emery Seaburtson, we are here today. Dearly beloved. So formal. My last name. Dearly beloved. And everything. We are, we're here today to embark on a strange journey. And I hope that It will be an enjoyable one. But it's also like kind of a sad one, I think. I was just going to say, you had me at Strange Journey,

and then it turns sad so fast. Well, it's not all sad. Some of it is wholesome. Some of it is strange. Some of it is a little not safe for work. And all of it is about Shaquille O'Neill. It's the most heralded rookie in the NBA in quite some time. Number 32, Shaquille O'Neill.

I'm ready. Until you said Shaquille O'Neal, I was like, all of this just sounds like an endless threat episode. And now we're into sports territory and I'm a little nervous, but okay. What's your Shack zone? Like, are you aware of Shack? How long have you been aware of Shack? I've been aware of Shack all my life. But he probably has a different time zone way up there.

He has a different climate. I just, I have no relation to Shack other than. You know, I actually do have a thought about Shaq, and that is that I think his eyes are a little sad. I think that's true. And I think that's actually, in a way, that's where we should start, which is a Reddit post, a recent Reddit post, asking, what's up with Shaq saying he is all alone? Oh, no. Click on this first link for me. Okay.

This is from the Out of the Loop subreddit. What's up with Shaq saying he's all alone living in his big mansion alone? What happened with Shaq? I thought he was a super nice guy. Why is he all alone? This was one of many posts that popped off recently about Shaq living all alone in a 100,000 square foot house. 100,000 square feet. That is 100 times large.

than the area I inhabit. Okay, so click on this second link. All right. This is from the Black People Twitter subreddit. This is a video quote tweeted by someone who says, I really hope Shaq is seeing a therapist. He sounds so regretful, so lonely. All right, here we go.

I'm watching now. You are going to retire? Yes. Accept it. Enjoy your family, brother. Thank you. I made a lot of mistakes to where I lost my... family and I didn't have anybody. That's not the case for you. So enjoy your beautiful wife,

enjoy your beautiful kids and never dwell on what we had. What we had is what we got. You got the ring. People know who you are. Enjoy it. Because again, I was an idiot. And I talked about this a long time. Lost my whole family. It's been a hundred thousand square for a house by myself. I know nothing about Shaq's personal life. Do you know, do you already know what stupid things he's referring to that he may have done? Well, we're going to get to it. But to really understand, I think, like, to figure out if Shaq is okay, I want us to go on the journey of Shaq, you know, not his full history, and certainly not the details of his NBA career, which neither of us know anything about. He shot some hoops.

But I think, you know, Shaq is this person who is the exact right age, Amory, to have kind of straddled the pre-internet and the post-internet world of celebrity. I first became aware of Shaq as a player for the Orlando Magic. And what I remember is that Shaq was huge. Like he's seven foot, one inches tall. And that was his whole personality as an NBA player. He was just, he was big. And nobody in the NBA was really as big as him.

So I want you to click the next link here. Okay. Describe what happened. Describe what happened. Okay, Shaq dunks a basket. The whole basket apparatus comes down onto the court. And he narrowly misses having this basket. Clock him over the head.

Oh, God. Okay, there's another video. He shoots another basket. But just the basket itself comes down. The board stays up at the bat. Oh, man. This is not your, like, neighbors, like, driveway basketball hoop, right? Like, these are legitimate.

sturdy hoops. And Shaq was repeatedly and consistently shattering backboards, breaking basketball hoops. He was like, like basically like eviscerating the focus point of the basketball court as an NBA player. So I think that like in a very real way,

Shaq was again, unlike anything that professional basketball had ever seen. And that made him pretty legendary pretty quick. And I think, like, again, that sort of like informed his perceived personality and his real personality on the basketball court. He was, like, sort of like a force of nature. That's hard. I think it is hard. Honestly, like, I think, you know, there was some, like, monsterism in the way that people thought of Shaq, right?

But at the same time, he becomes this, like, sort of, like, legendary character in basketball in the 90s. And the 1990s was, you know, by many sort of accounts, again, this sort of like golden age of basketball. People think about that. Yeah. Was he in Space Jam? I know Michael Jordan was the star. Yeah. Shaquille O'Neill plays himself in the 1996 film Space Jam.

Excellent. Okay. So he becomes this superstar. Shaq becomes this superstar. You know, even still today, there are posts on Reddit about people's, like, all-time, like, NBA, fantasy teams and like everyone has Shaq on their NBA fantasy team even though again he's like it's a long time ago that Shaquille O'Neal played basketball now so I want you to look at this shack as weaponized giant link okay the top comment says Steve Kerr he's the I'm pretty sure he's the head coach of the Golden State Warriors has said when Steph moves step Curry when Steph moves on the court he sucks in help defenders everywhere he goes Shack did that even off the court. He required every coach to carry an extra two bigs on the roster

just to try to absorb the brutal contact from Shack's frame. Shack wrecked the entire rotation of every team he played against. He's like planetary. He has his own gravitational force. Yeah, he has his moons. He changes the way that the game is played and the way that rosters are built because of how just big and powerful he is.

So all of this, of course, contributes to Shaq becoming a superstar in the 90s. He gets a lot of nicknames in the 90s. O'Neill called himself the Big Aristotle and Hobo Master for his composure and insights

during interviews. That's pretty cocky, we could say. He got a lot of nicknames, including Shaq, also The Diesel, which, by the way, is his DJ name. and he is currently a DJ. I think I did know that one. Shack Fu, the big daddy, Superman, the big agave, the big cactus, the big shaktis,

oh, that's good. The big galactus. Wilt Chamberneasy, the big Barry Schnikov, the real deal, the big Shamrock, I think that was maybe coined when he played on his last NBA team of all time, which would be the... Guessing it's the Celtics? The Celtics. The big leprechaikon,

Shackovic, and the big conductor. These are the nicknames of Shack. According to Wikipedia, which, grain of salt. But he, you know, Shaquille O'Neal becomes this, like, really big deal. And this, this, you know...

Big deal O'Neil. Be... Oh, ho! There we go. Well played, Amory Seabritson. I know it would come to me. Big deal, the big deal, O'Neill. Yeah.

Oh, man, we should add that. All right. So, you know, and this is really, this is in the 90s, of course. He's on MTV Cribs. He's like one of the most memorable episodes, I would say, of MTV Cribs showing off his, his Orlando mansion. And it has a giant circular bed that he has made that's custom. And it has a Superman insignia on it. He, by the way, was in the Superman-related movie, Steel, which is about a black Superman.

He also gets incorporated to the NBA Jam video game. Did you ever play that game? Do you remember that game? What do you think? You think I played any video games and then you think I played a basketball-themed video game? All right. That's fine. I understand.

Benjo. It's like you don't know me at all. Now all of this is really before the internet pops off in earnest Or maybe it's around the same time in the 90s But Shaquille O'Neal on the internet Has actually been a pretty different person And I'm going to tell you about that In just a minute

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Whatever your goal, we can help. Discover how the magic is made at WBUR.org slash creative studio. Okay. So, Amory, we're talking about Shaquille O'Neal. And so now I want to talk about Shaquille O'Neal on the internet. Okay. If you search for Shaquille O'Neal on Reddit on the internet, you are going to come across discussion of Shaquille O'Neal in a sort of not safe for work way. So can you look at this first link?

You don't even have to click on it, but you can sort of see what it is. Okay. Well, yes. Without clicking on it, I can see that the title of the post is how big. do you think Shaq's dick is? Yes. So Shaq was the first deep fake I ever saw. And what I mean by that is, is in the 90s,

there was a photo of Shaq that traveled around the internet that I believe was a photoshopped photo of a porn star with Shaq's head photoshopped onto that porn star. because, you know, when you are a celebrity, you're going to get potentially objectified in a lot of different ways. And Shaquille O'Neal, as a very large celebrity, of course, his manhood ends up getting discussed. And I think that's, you know, it's just,

I guess it's just part of his internet history. But what's interesting is Shaquille O'Neal's personality on the internet, the way that the internet discusses Shaq is actually the opposite of this, most of it, which is the shack on the internet is wholesome. So let's look at some of the ways in which the internet talks about Shaquille O'Neal today. I noticed that every time I'd go to a business meeting, the guys who were doing deals with would be like,

hello, Shaq, how are you doing? And then they would turn away and look at my lawyer. and my accountants and all those guys. So I said, oh, you guys don't think I'm in charge. You guys don't think I understand the lingo. So I went and got my master's at University of Phoenix. University of Phoenix is an online program, mostly. But I went to the head officials and said,

I don't want to do it online. I want somebody to teach me in a class. And they came back and said, unfortunately, we can't set up a classroom for one guy. You need 15 people. So I paid for 15 of my friends to get their message. Wow. Wow, that's a, that's a Shaq fact.

Yeah, it's kind of cool, right? And by the way, Shaq has his doctorate in education. Damn. Here's another thing that has, like, kept Shaq in the conversation on the internet for a long time, which is that Shaq is the subject of a Mandela effect. That sounds familiar, but I don't remember what the, what the myth was. There's a movie that a movie that a lot of, lot of people on the internet think exists called Shazam.

That's right. Which supposedly stars the comedian Sinbad. And that movie does not exist. In this movie Shazam starring the actor and comedian Sinbad. He plays a genie. But in the real world, there is a movie called Kazam. And that is a movie that stars Shack. Sheck, okay.

So we could call this large act of collective, low-key racism of people just like thinking that famous black people look alike. I don't know exactly where this comes from. Oh, my God. Come on, people. But again, really, you know, the internet often sort of adds a layer of like darkness and edge to celebrity. With Shaq, it's sort of been the opposite. He has become this person that people talk about as being really cool and, and like heartwarming and wholesome.

So take a look at this next one. This made me smile. Okay. The subject is a young fan is escorted away by security after giving Shaq a hug. After realizing what happened, Shaq called him back over. So there's this, like, kid who's tiny, you know, like again. He's in a LeBron James jersey. Uh-huh.

He's in a LeBron jersey, a Lakers jersey. and he just like sneak somehow like gets past security because he's so short and he goes up and hugs Shaq's leg like barely reaching Shaq's knee right this kid comes up and hugs his leg and Shaq's back has turned to him and then security like to whisks the kid away and Shaq realizes what happened and he like he's like no man bring that kid back over and he like the kid comes back over and they take a photo together I mean I think I think doing anything other than that would have been pretty terrible. But yes, it's always sweet when someone of celebrity is like, hey man, you're a person, I'm a person. There's another really viral story that gets reposted

and reposted on Reddit and elsewhere of Shaq seeing a kid looking at a bike in Walmart and basically buying that bike for the kid. But it's from a documentary TV show, like a web series, I think, maybe. So whether you believe Shaq is truly wholesome or truly kind or truly impressive or not. The way that the internet discusses this is that, wow, Shaq is he's such a good guy. What's also interesting about this little kid, though, is because he's wearing a LeBron James jersey, and he is so very small. This is not a kid who grew up watching Shaq play.

So there's something to be said about that, too, and the internet perpetuating the majesty of Shaq. That's a good word for him. Exactly. The majesty. Your shackesty. That's what we can add that. His shackesty.

I like that. His shackesty. It's not like perfect, but it's good enough. Okay. Now I'm supposed to watch the next one? Yeah. I go to McDonald's and order food for me and my fat friends and the kids bring it. I'll give him a $200 tip.

I'm not about to go in there and cook it and do that. You're doing that for me? Appreciate your big homie. Thank you. Yeah. That's what we need more in this world. We got too much. Hey, I got this.

I got that. Nah. That ain't me. So when you see Shaq, you're going to see him by itself. You ain't going to be in no entourage. You're not going to be disrespectful. He ain't going to be throwing people around. When I go to a restaurant with my boys, they're amazed that I don't skip the line.

Hey, man, go to the front. No, man. I'm not skipping that lady. I can't do it. Yeah. I know I'm the Shaq and I can eat free. I just can't do it. Because remember, these people right here make this world go around, not me.

Yeah. But it's my job to entertain them. And then when they pay, that's how I get paid. So it's all a certain ecosystem that can never be broken. A lot of people break it. So when you turn your back on them, then they get all sour and get all sad. But you've got to protect the people that make you, yeah. I am always really shocked when I hear stories of what famous people think they can do and are owed and should be allowed to do.

And so that really hits. It's just we need more solicit. celebrities taking the Shaq approach of just I'm not we have you and I have different jobs and I'm better than you. Yeah and I think Shaq does seem to embody that. I mean look he's like you know he is talking about himself there and like bragging about himself giving a $200 tip to somebody who works like McDonald's and yeah there are there are probably ways in which shack could contribute to society that are better than that. Right.

Right. But at the same time, you see him like doing this kind of like self-reflection about like what his place is in the world and like how to act right and how not to act right.

So that all makes sense. But we started this with him talking about being alone and losing his whole family because of stupid things that he had done. He says I was an idiot. There must be something not wholesome. You know, the story behind Shaq living alone in a mansion is that, you know, he had a very acrimonious divorce from his wife. You know, depending on where you get your news sources, he cheated on his wife repeatedly.

She ended up supposedly also cheating on him. And this basically, like, exploded their family. this is a quote from one of the articles from Shaq when I lost those I was all the way down sometimes I'm still all the way down especially when I was in my house in Orlando which is 70,000 square feet

his house has apparently gotten bigger in Orlando I was in there by myself nobody like I built a house for the kids gym game room pool house guest house for the mom and all that when I lost all that by being stupid. It killed me. He's really not in touch at all with his children as a result of this divorce. So the divorce happened back in 2011, and in 2022, Shaq talked about how he missed a lot of

milestones with their kids, but that they have reconnected. So he did, as he described it at the time, return to having the privilege of receiving joy. But he said that if, you know, he didn't reconnect with his kids. He'd have never found joy again. And this is not an unfamiliar experience for celebrities, right? Their families often break up. So like Shaq is, he's maybe he's both things or he's neither thing, right? Like he's not what the pre-internet sort of celebrity machine made him out to be. He's more thoughtful and reflective than that as a full-fledged adult. But he's also not the perfectly wholesome kind, just like only good in the world person that the internet seems to want him to be either.

The internet has made us, it's given us so much more access to the celebrities that we are interested in. And so it's so much easier to watch them. It's so much easier to catch them in the act of doing something really beautiful. And it's so much easier to catch them in the act of doing something that we might take issue with. And the mistake that we all make is that we think that we can put people in this like, oh yeah, Shaq's a good guy or like Shaq's a bad guy.

We do kind of define a person by one thing that they've done, and they should absolutely be held accountable for those actions. But we also throw out, when we do that, we not only throw out anything good that they may have done, but we throw out the chance for them to redeem themselves or to show the other sides of themselves. So with Shaq just kind of owning it all, and maybe there's more that he hasn't owned,

So I don't want to say, great job, Shaq, necessarily. But with him at least owning some of the things that he's not proud of, he has allowed himself to be more multidimensional in a way that I hope we can all be. That celebrities will allow themselves to be online and that we will all come to celebrities online, knowing that they're a whole person that shouldn't be put on a pedestal. Neither should they be dragged down for a mistake that they're saying, that they're owning.

So Shaq has a phone number on his Instagram that says you can text me if you want to text me. Oh, hell yeah. So I think we should text Shaq and see if he texts us back. Okay. Which of his many nicknames should we use? Hey, Shaq.

Should we keep it simple and just say, hey, Shaq? Yeah, we should tell him that we have a new nickname for him too. Like, hey, Shaq, we know you're a man of many nicknames. We have a new one we'd like to propose. Okay, what is it? Well, I actually, I feel like we should maybe amend it because before we said big deal, O'Neill, but now we should say like the real deal, O'Neill.

Okay, so, Hey, Shaq, it's Ben and Amory from the podcast and list thread. Few. You got that part right. We just made an episode about your life. That sounds very grand. I think it's more like the Internet has captured some of your multitudes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. And then we enter the Internet.

Okay. Hey, Shaq, it's Ben and Emery from the podcast Endless Thread. Our show is about our online and offline selves. We just made an episode about you and your reputation. on the internet and how the internet has captured more of your multitudes as a person than the pre-internet celebrity media machine allowed you to be. What's our ask for him? Is he okay?

That's our ask. We also want to know, are you doing okay? We heard you were lonely. Yeah, we'd love to talk and hear whatever, whatever's on your mind. and what you might want people to know about you. Also, we know you're a man of many nicknames, and we have a new one we'd like to propose. The Real Deal O'Neill.

Your maybe Internet pals. I'd say your maybe future pals. Future pals, Amory and Ben. Okay. All right. I'm going to hit Send. No, thank you. Okay, thank you. Thanks. Endless Thread is a production of WBUR in Boston.

This episode was produced by me and Dean Russell, mostly Dean to be honest. It was co-hosted by me and Amory Sievertson, sound designed by Emily Jenkowski. If you want to hear more of that deep, deep voice of The Real Deal O'Neill, check out the big podcast with Shaq on YouTube. And Shaq. Text us back, man. Come on the show. Let's talk about our feelings.

Dear listeners, including Shaq, send us your Shaq thoughts and memories. endless thread at WBUR.org. Speaking of which, big shouts this week to Heather D in Ohio, who probably has some great nicknames as well, she heard us ask for sousaphone shots in our Music Man episode and sent us a whole bevy of photos of her son, Maddie Travis, who rocks the tuba and the sousaphone, and even the contra-based bugle?

The kids got pipes. And wait, is this literally another woman named Heather D? emailing us sousaphone shots? Yes, it is not chat GPT. It is Heather Doucette and her son, Charlie, in the marching band in Connecticut. What is going on? Yes, it is real. We have the photos to prove it.

Heather's, you should get together and your sons should form a sousaphone band. Probably. Let us know if you want us to make that happen. Endless thread is a show about the blurred lines between online communities and a basketball backboard smashed with a suzaphom. of phone by Shaq. We'll see you next week.