Endless Thread - Speak Memory

Episode Date: September 20, 2019

Virtual assistants like Alexa and Siri know a lot about us – maybe TOO much about us. But when we’re gone, they also leave our loved ones with something to hold on to. In this episode, we explore how technology is helping preserve memories and changing our relationship to the past.

Support for endless thread comes from Mathworks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink Software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at Mathworks.com. Support for WBUR comes from Is Business Broken, a podcast from the Mayrotra Institute at Boston University that explores questions like, why is innovation in healthcare so hard? Is ESG just greenwashing? of course, is business broken? Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. Quick note before we start. This episode contains mention of suicide. If you need help, call the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273 Talk. That's 1-800-273-8255. Anonymous and open 24-7. Okay, here's the show. Emery, you know how in Game of Thrones they used to say, The North remembers? Ben, we've been over this. I didn't watch Game of Thrones.

Oh, yeah, that's right. But I can imagine what that means, so sure. Okay, I think Reddit remembers too. I heard this phrase recently, and it stuck with me because it is true that inside jokes and famous posts last a really long time on Reddit. People will refer to old posts on new post threads. People talk about crazy stories that were posted years ago.

Yeah, a lot of memories. But there are also posts and threads about memory. Like the one we found in the Explain Like I'm Five community with the headline, why does our body cringe when we remember something embarrassing? In response, a Reddeter was getting pretty nerdy about memory in the comments. I'm Tiffany, and I live in Texas. I've worked in the behavioral health field for well over a decade. Tiffany used to work in an inpatient crisis facility, where she helped people through really difficult moments in their lives. which is why she's become interested in understanding more about how memories are built and then re-accessed by the brain.

It's connected with something called the stress response. It's just your body responding to stress through hormones. And we have to remember, for one thing, that stress isn't necessarily negative. We actually have a really, really mild stress response just in the act of learning something new. You're saying you're stressing me out right now. I'm stressing you out. Throughout your life, as different things happen to you, you get different levels of stressed out. And again, stress here basically means emotional response.

Happy, sad, nervous, embarrassed, whatever. These things are connected to a really deep part of your brain. So the amygdala is the lizard brain, and it controls all of our most primal stuff, you know, right down to our. heartbeat. And that is where the fight, flight, or freeze response comes from, where if we're suddenly really afraid, we're going to do one of those three things. When we have a stress response, the amygdala connects to the nervous system, which signals our adrenal glands to release hormones. Basically, it's bath time, hormone bath time. We're talking about adrenaline in itself, and cortisol, also known as hydrochortosone, when those things are coursing through

our system at the same time that an event is happening, it helps lock in that memory. And if you're remembering something that's emotionally charged, then those hormones, they kick back in. And if the thing was embarrassing, suddenly you're embarrassed again. And so you're just having the same natural response to that stimulus, even though it's just a memory now, that you had the first time when it actually happened. Tiffany has been thinking about memory a lot lately. When her mom passed away six months ago, she moved into her mom's apartment. And so I'm sitting here surrounded by my mother's belongings, and I have had to make an effort

to really reclaim the space as my own. visually so that I don't overload on that grief. This needs to be my apartment, so it needs to literally look different. I've taken all the art down, and I'm going to put it back up in different places. I burn sage sometimes, you know, to cleanse the air. And so I'm doing those kind of things. Tiffany misses her mom, but she wants to be in control of the infusions of hormones when she remembers something and things come flooding back. So she thinks a lot about what to let go of. And what to keep. Like a voicemail, her mom left for her sister after she got engaged. And her tone through the whole thing, just it sounds like the sweetness that she was.

I am so, so happy for you and so excited. I can't believe I missed your call. Please call me this evening. Please call me. I long to talk to you about this. I am so happy for you. Today's episode, Speak Memory. I'm Ben Brock Johnson.

I'm Amory Severson, and you're listening to Endless Thread. The show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called Reddit. We're coming to you from WBUR, Bob. Austin's NPR station. Tiffany was actually one of two Redditors we talked to who were accessing memories by playing old voice recordings. The other person is Ashton. Okay, Google. Ashton is my wife?

That would be Andrew, Ashton's husband, talking to his phone. I love you. You can send it. Okay, my name's Ashton. My username on Reddit is Dr. Girlfriend. I'm from Ella J, Georgia, so I live in the mountains, and I work as a veterinary technician. That's her day job, but Ashton met Andrew after her former night gig, Roller Derby, that kind of scary sport where women roller skate around to rink in helmets and padding and throw elbows.

Did you have one of those, like, badass monikers? My derby name was Ash's Smashes, and my derby number was 420. Can you describe the bar that you used to go to with? your roller derby team after practices? It's called tipsy McSways. It's in Brunswick, Georgia. It's just a really groovy place. I mean, there's people from all walks of life that hang out there.

A few years back, Ashton was living as a single mom. But one of the people hanging out at tipsy McSways was Andrew. I'm here, babe. I'm here, babe. Shit, set a twist. Okay, so the first time that I met Andrew, you know, it was just regular derby practice. nothing special about that night. We went out and got some beer and got something to eat.

And I just noticed this guy. He kept on coming up to me and trying to talk to me. And at the time, I was not having any of that. Some of the girls on my derby team were like, dude, this guy's stalking you. And I kept trying to avoid him. And he ended up following me outside and eventually he bought me a beer. And we just started talking.

And we must have sat and talked for maybe three or four hours that night until the bar closed. And I remember texting my best friend. I said, hey, is this guy's name familiar to you? Because I feel like we know him. And she's like, no, dude, I've never heard that name before. Yeah, we just felt like we had a connection from the start. What was the thing that kind of turned the tide of the conversation between why is this guy following me outside and not giving up?

And you being a little curious about him? I think it was just the comfort that I felt like as comfortable as I would at home by myself, you know, just with somebody else who we like the same bands. You know, we had the same vision prescription, too, which is kind of weird. But we had the same exact prescription, yeah. You know, I mean, it was just hanging out after derby practice, and then it turned into hanging out every night. And, you know, he started tagging along with me to run errands and stuff like that. And he helped with my daughter's birthday party, the daughter that I had before I met him.

And, you know, he just seemed to step right in and fill in this place of like a sidekick that I didn't realize I needed. But once he was there, I didn't know. what I was going to do without him. Ashton and Andrew got married the next year in 2014. Okay, Google. Send a message, Ashton. I was just literally texting you that. You were awesome.

How would you describe him to somebody who doesn't know him has never talked to him or never seen him? Right off the bat, I'd say I know they were going to love him. He's hilarious, super outgoing life of the party, just like a super friendly guy. He would have been like the ultimate salesperson. He could talk you into anything. So I just broke down and I bought a Ryobi weed eater from Home Depot.

It has the thing where you can have multiple attachments to it. So now we don't have to buy extra equipment in the future. He loved computers. He loved electronics. He loved all sorts of those things. Worked for a few electronic companies. Did some sign work for a while. And then kind of just became a family man.

What did he look like? He was tall and skinny. He had a big bushy beard that he used to be scared to shave because I loved it so much. The most beautiful blue eyes I've ever seen in my life. And when he was happy, they were just perfect sky blue. And then when he was upset or angry, they'd be a little bit darker. But you could tell how he was feeling by his eye color. Several weeks ago, there was a really popular thread in the Ask Reddit community.

people were talking about downloading their Google data and what they were finding. I just was reading through the comments primarily, and I saw people saying things like, oh, there were snippets of our conversations we thought were private at work. And yeah, I was like, that's creepy, of course, right off the bat. But then it just dawned on me. I was like, oh, my gosh, what if Google had picked up conversations between me and Andrew that I didn't know had been recorded or text messages that he sent me that would be in his voice through voice to text or stuff like that? And then, you know, a question, can somebody please help me figure out how to download this?

And sure enough, like minutes later, somebody did. Ashton found a treasure trove. Okay, Google. Play Michael Fronty. Play Dave Matthewsman. Play Ben Harper Radio. Okay, Google. Play CitizenCope Radio.

Okay, Google. Play Barbie Girl. Play Monashire. Yahoo Radio. Play Frank Sinatra. Play the Weight Strikes Radio. Open Spotify, play Highwayman. Okay, Google.

Open Spotify, play Cindy Lauper time after time. Okay, Google. How many milliliters are in 16 ounces? Does Netflix Luke Cage take place after Jessica Jones? Who does the voice of Homer Simpson? Is Bill Odenkirk related to Bob Odenkirk? Okay, Google. Google.

When does Burger King start serving breakfast? That last one was from 154 a.m. There was also a huge amount of audio that was more of a reminder of Andrew and Ashton's relationship, like messages he sent to her on voice to text. Of course, baby. I'm sorry you're not feeling good. Do you want me to get you anything? Ashton says she and Andrew really were a great match. They had a partnership.

Okay, Google. How to cook thick-cut pork chops in the oven. How to make coffee on the stove top? How do I check on my federal tax return status? Send a message to Ashton. Hey, baby, ask your mom if she has some post hole diggers. Can I return a product at Walmart at this time at night? They were also a good team as parents.

Yeah, I have an older daughter. She's eight now, but when we got together, she was about four. She loved him right from the start. You know, he's just a funny guy, get down and play with her, wasn't scared to get dirty, always had energy, you know, so he could keep up with her. And she just loved him right off the bat because he was just, you know, so awesome. And then we had a daughter together, Dakota. She just turned five years old, and she has his characteristics.

Things kind of just like roll off her back like they would with him. Ashton and Andrew and their two daughters were a happy family. but Andrew's past before he met Ashton had not been so happy. Bible verses for people in addiction. We'll be back in a minute. At Radio Lab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry. But we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing.

Politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex. Of bugs. Regardless of whether we're looking at. Science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers. And hopefully make you see the world anew.

Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcast. There is something powerful about the sound of the human voice. Beautifully produced audio has the unique power to connect and inspire. Tell your organization's story with a custom podcast from City Space Productions, the creative studio from WBUR's Business Partnerships team. Become a thought leader. Recruit new talent. Reach new audiences. Whatever your goal, we can help. Discover how the magic is made at WBUR.org slash creative studio. When Ashton met Andrew, he was a graphic designer, but he'd had a different career before that.

He served as infantry in the military. He really didn't talk about it all that much because he did have some bad experiences. Is there an app to protect me from government surveillance? Ashton says that Andrew had issues with PTSD and flashbacks. He had nightmares and other emotional episodes. Probably the most significant issue that did result from that. It was, we went out and had a few drinks one night. I believe it was around one of those military holidays, but I can't remember which one. And after he had a few drinks in him, there was a song that he recognized.

I don't remember what song it was because I was outside at the time. But he went a little bit ballistic. you know, he was upset about the way veterans were treated something along those lines and he got really angry and agitated again. But he eventually calmed down and just went to sleep. But that was probably the most out-of-character angry I'd ever seen him before was that night. The next day, Andrew went to an inpatient facility to get, as Ashton calls it, his mind right. He came out super motivated and optimistic.

But over the next few years, he would suffer more episodes. each time Ashton and Andrew would opt into care, each time he would come out feeling renewed. Andrew didn't really talk about his military service. He kept that stuff separate from the rest of his family. Generally, he had liked being in the military, and most of the time, he seemed okay with it. But he'd also done tours in Afghanistan, and when you're in the infantry in Afghanistan, you're likely to see action. Still, Andrew was an engaged husband and father who was making effort. to deal with his challenges.

Okay, Google. Download daily Bible app. But one day, in April 2018, Ashton got the call you never want to get. I was actually in Kennesaw at the time. We were thinking about moving up there and I had just gotten a job. So I got off work and been home for about 15 minutes

and basically I received a phone call from the police. telling me that my husband was deceased. At first, it was complete denial. You know, this is not something that happened. I don't believe you the whole time in the car. You know, I was just screaming, this can't be true. This is not happening. When I got there and I saw how many people were kind of waiting to talk to me,

I realized that something is definitely going on. That's when they told me how he did it. And when he told me that, I knew it was true. Andrew had died by suicide. Before, there had been warning signs that he was on a downward spiral. This time, there weren't any. Ashton was in shock. Since they had only been together a few years,

Ashton says that along with the huge and horrible crisis that was his death, along with the brutal impact on their family, she realized she just didn't have the kind of thing. that help you remember a person in your life who's passed away. I don't have very many videos or voicemails or anything like that. I didn't think that something like this would ever happen. Which is why Ashton posted this heartfelt message on the Reddit thread asking other Redditors to help her figure out how to download the Google data off of Andrew's phone,

which we have been listening to. And even if some of it is small, Ashton says in the things that she did have of Andrew, videos, photos, None of them have him saying her name, like the Google Data does. Okay, Google. Call Ashton. Send a message to Ashton. Okay, Google.

Text Ashton. There is something odd about listening to Andrew's voice after he's gone. Nobody ever really thinks about the minutia they leave behind, the things they say to their devices, into their machines. You don't think people will listen back to that. And we should admit that we don't have Andrew's permission to play this stuff. We have Ashton's permission. For her, it's a window she can look through to preserve a part of him.

And that means a lot. I listened to a few things, but I had gotten really emotional. And it was hours before I checked Reddit again. And when I happened to check it, I just saw the amount of notifications. And I was like, oh, my God, what happened? What did I post? They got so much attention. and then that's when I saw, you know, the messages and comments, I can't believe this,

you're making me cry, things like that. And I was like, oh, my God, I never expected people to care so much. And I did not have that much support when Andrew died. So just knowing that there are people out there that care, I mean, it feels good. Hearing Andrew's voice feels good, too, especially when the reality of her life without him sinks back in. These snippets of audio bring those hormones and joyful memories flooding back to Ashton. There are just days that it is overpowering, and I don't want to get out of bed or do anything. And I kind of torture myself a little bit, I guess, by listening to those.

But, you know, it gives me a little bit of joy for a little bit, and I try to focus on the brighter side of things. Smart speakers are becoming more ubiquitous, and speech-to-text technology can continues improving. So Ashton's story may just be a sign of things to come. In fact, a lot of people have pointed out that Ashton's story is very similar to a well-known episode of the Netflix sci-fi show Black Mirror, where a widow uses a tech company's service to pull all of her former partner's data in and recreate his personality in a conversational AI. It doesn't look like you. Not yet. It's blank till you activate it. She says she might watch that episode, but she hasn't yet. So has this changed how you think about technology and our relationship to it and privacy issues? This instance for me, it seems like it's probably an isolated incident. You know, I appreciate that. I'm glad for it. I am still wary of technology.

I think technology is crazy and I'm not that great with it, to be honest. Ashton also maybe doesn't have time to mull over the deep philosophical implications of technology and privacy. She's a single mother of two who's still trying to cope with Andrew being gone. I think the most unexpected change is just the little moments alone at night, you know, after the kids are in bed, and you're just used to talking to somebody. That stillness is something to get used to. You know, our daughter started pre-K last year, and he should have been there for that. Andrew might not be around anymore, but Drew, as the girls call him, is still very much a presence in the house.

On her birthday, just at the house, you know, it was after school and everything. They were going to bed. They had just gotten out of, or just got in the tub. While they were in the tub, I was like, I'm going to put these little party hats on her stuffed animals. I think that'd be really cute while she's in the tub. So when she came out of the tub, you know, my older daughter's taking a shower. And so I'm toweling her off and getting her dressed, and she's looking around. She's like, oh, my God, who put those here?

And I was like, who do you think put them there? Expecting her to say me. And she looked at me dead serious. She said, Drew put them there. And I kind of paused for a second. I was like, yeah, Drew did put them there. I mean, he is an angel. He can do stuff like that, right?

you know, he's invisible and she's like, right. But it backfired and she found like 10 other stuffed animals that didn't have little party hats on and told her sister that Drew was going to come back and put party hats on all those stuffed animals, lined them up on the wall. And long story short, I was up until 1 a.m., making party hats to put on these stuffed animals just so she would think that like her dad came on her birthday just to put little party hats on her animals for her. It was special to her, so I gladly did it. Okay, Google.

How do you spell epiphany? Why were you so eager to find recordings of his voice? It's different. Hearing somebody's voice, I mean, to me, it's, I haven't heard his voice since so long. I don't want to say that I've forgotten it, because I haven't. You know, the second I heard it,

it's exactly like I remember. but I can look at all these photos all day and they only give me so much. It just, I don't know. It's just a special part in my heart, you know. Do you have a particular message that is your favorite or something that you discovered that was a surprise or feels particularly valuable now? There is a message that he sent me talking about his daughter a couple of days before he passed away, but it was talking about how much she loved pizza and how excited she was. about the pizza that they had ordered that night.

What kind of pizza was it? Pepperoni pizza from Dominoes. They're really basic kids. I'm pretty basic, too. I just, I had pepperoni pizza for lunch, so. Yeah, he did. Yeah, it's got to have the pepperoni, according to Dakota, though, because it's not spicy enough without it.

I feel the same way. I feel the same exact way. Ashton says she hasn't played Andrews audio for her daughters yet, but she is planning on getting them a special gift. gift in the future, a custom stuffed animal that plays Andrew's voice when you hug it. Maybe someday. But for now, these recordings are Ashton's memories. Okay, Google. Call Ashton. How are you doing today? Okay, Google. Text Ashton. I'm outside, baby. Send it.

Endless thread is a production of WBUR, Boston's NPR station, partnership with Reddit. Josh Swartz is our producer and appreciates that his virtual assistant has a policy of no stupid questions. Iris Adler is our executive producer who considers memory baths to be one of those cozy places. Mix and sound design this week by Matt Reed, who doesn't really care about Black Mirror. He'd much rather be living in a monster on a world. Michael Pope is our advisor at Reddit and he's tired of creepy technology. He wants to go back to The way we were. Extra production assistance from James Lindbergh.

Our interns are Maggie Alamata. Maggie's fine. And Noah Boston. It's like Austin with a beat. Thanks to Redditor Metallicake for this week's artwork. It is called Repressed Memories. And you can find it on our website, wb u.bur.org slash endless thread. On Reddit, we are endless underscore thread.

If you want to contribute art for an upcoming episode or give us a story tip so that we can tell it like we did today, hit us up there. My co-host and producer is Amory Sievertson. I'm senior producer and co-host Ben Brock Johnson. I'll let myself out.