Endless Thread - Test Of Time

Episode Date: August 16, 2018

Did you ever receive a love note in elementary school? What happened to the person who wrote it to you? Or what about that person you went to a music festival with in your early 20s? In this episode, we feature two extraordinary stories about relationships that have withstood the test of time.

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Produced by the ILAP at WBUR, Boston. Amory, first movie or TV show crush, go. Ooh, David Bowie playing King Jarrett in the Labyrinth. Oh, that's pretty good. Yeah, what about you? I'm going to go so basic right now that I'm kind of embarrassed, but my 11-year-old self was so into Pamela Anderson on Baywatch. Okay.

Well, you know, most crushes, TV or otherwise, I think are probably not meant to stand the test of time. And that, my friend, is a pretty good episode title, Test of Time. Sold. Test of Time it is. I'm Ben Brock Johnson, and this is Endless Thread, the show featuring stories found in the vast ecosystem of online communities called Reddit. I'm here with my producer and co-host, Amory Sievertson. One does not simply walk into our show without saying how it is made. We are coming to you from Boston's NPR station, WBUR.

My first real crush was in fourth grade, but compared to Richie, I was a late bloomer. Do you remember when you first noticed Camille? Oh, definitely. I don't think it was any past the first hour, honestly, that I was there. There, in this case, is a grade school in Minnesota. I just thought that she was really cute. She was a small blonde girl with freckles, and I thought the freckles were adorable. Yeah, I remember it like it was yesterday.

It wasn't yesterday, of course. It was like decades ago. But something happened that burned this whole experience into Ritchie's memory. There's evidence in the form of a note. Do you remember actually writing this thing? Yep, I remember actually writing it. So there were some boys in our class that were teasing me about liking Camille. and she was right there while they were teasing me.

And I didn't want to say because I was too embarrassed. So I said, no, absolutely not. I don't like Emil, no. Yeah, I hate her. I hate her. I hate her. Blah, gross, cooties. So she heard all of that.

And then I just thought about it for the next couple hours, and I just felt so bad that I said that in front of her, and I just wanted to make it right. So I tore the little corner off of my pink notebook paper and I wrote on the notebook paper to Camille from Ritchie. And on the other side, it said, all misspelled. I was too embarrassed to tell you, but I really do like you. How did you spell embarrassed?

It was I-M-B-A-R-I-S-T. Embarrassed. Already rough. I know. And when you're a kid, everything just feels that much more intense and important. You're like, I'll never live this down. Right. And Richie makes a strategic error by trying to fix this because that only makes things worse.

So right after I gave it to her, I put her under her school box, and she didn't notice it right away. But there was a girl in our class named Layla. And Layla just right away, probably 10 seconds after I put it under there, she saw me put it under there. She goes under Camille's school box and takes it out and then reads it. And so starts laughing. and then she takes it to our teacher, Miss Winters. And she read it out loud before she read it to herself. And she wrote, I was too embarrassed to tell you,

but I really do like you from Richie. And that just, gosh, that embarrassed me so bad. And Layla now has a great career at the National Security Agency. Probably. Two years later, Richie is still hurting from his public humiliation. But he gets a restart. his mom gets a new job, far from Minnesota. So my mom got a job down there with a company that was called Scientific Atlanta.

Yeah, we moved down there when I was 10. And then I lived there for 14 years, I think it was. And Richie lived happily ever after having left behind his epic childhood, I-M-B-A-R-I-S-M-I-N-T forever. No, he didn't. Time for some Camille. So I think we were 16. he messages me on Facebook. And we weren't friends on Facebook.

He just sent me a message and said, hey, remember me? And I didn't. I had no idea who he was. I remember looking at his profile, seeing that he was from Atlanta and thinking, remember me. I've never been to Atlanta. I don't know anyone from Atlanta. This is weird. So I basically just said, nope, I don't remember you at all.

He messaged me back and he said, oh, no, we went to second grade together. Like, I'm from Minnesota. I went to Echo Park with you. check your yearbook, look at it. And so I did, and he existed. He wasn't, I always say he wasn't like that creepy guy on the internet. Your grandma was trying to tell you about all the time. Did you ever think that he was that creepy guy on the internet?

100%. Right? I mean, he told me, like, I know I had a big crush on you in second grade. I think he told me about the note pretty early on. Kind of tried to trigger my memory about that. And I was like, nope, no idea. I don't know who you are. And then he told me that his family, some extended family, still lived in Minnesota.

So he made trips up here every once in a while. He made some references to like an amusement park that's here and said, is that still there? We should go there sometime when you come up, or when I come up to Minnesota. I was like, wow, this kid is really forward. Like, I've never met you before and you're trying to take me to Valley Fair. But we just kept talking. Valley, take me to Valley Fair is not a euphemism, right?

Nope. It's not. Valley Fair is an amusement park. Okay. Just check. I guess he remembered from second grader, whatever. Yeah, so we started talking and I was pretty hesitant, I would say, at first. I was honestly kind of mean.

Like, we've pulled up those Facebook messages from way back when and I am not very kind. So it took a while, but they got to talking. And surprisingly, kind of hit it off. Ritchie was funny. Camille thought, there's no harm in talking online. I mean, we were just talking and it kind of progressed to like, oh, we're more than talking. We're talking about how we like each other and the good things about each other. flirting and eventually I think in December he asked me out but we'd never seen each other.

We'd never spent any time together other than in second grade, I suppose. And I said yes. So we were officially dating as of December of our junior year of high school having not seen each other since we were eight years old. Eventually though, Richie made good on the promise to come visit. But they were just teenagers. So it was tricky. My parents didn't know he existed.

So I snuck around for that whole weekend that he was here. I had a car, so I picked him up and we drove around and we went to the mall. We went to one of my friend's houses and watched a movie because we couldn't go back to my house because my parents didn't know he existed. They thought I was at my cousin's house. Snuck around all weekend and we hung out. I dropped him back off at the airport on Sunday night and said goodbye and did not know the next time we'd see each other. Why didn't your parents know?

You know, 16, 17-year-old me had never had a really, like, serious dating relationship. I'd, like, kind of dated guys. But my family wasn't super open about, like, mushy-gushy-gushy-feeling stuff. So it felt kind of weird to say, hey, there's this guy that lives in Georgia, and I really like him. So I'm dating him. How long did that go on? Two weeks after he came to Minnesota that first time. Okay.

The guilt got to me. and my mom said, oh, yeah, I knew something was up. And she didn't mean just that weekend. She meant, like, over the last five months, she could tell there was something different. And I was like, what? How did you know? I've been so sneaky. And she was like, no, you've been different.

I can just tell. I'm your mom. I knew something was up. Richie's family had a different reaction. They didn't think it was creepy? No, they didn't think it was creepy. They thought it was romantic. And that's how I see it from my side, too.

Romantic, sure. But this was the beginning of a six-year-long distance relationship that pretty much nobody thought would last. I remember once we were visiting some of his extended family and it was the first time I'd ever met them. And I remember at one point a couple of his cousins were saying, gosh, Camille, we really like you and we really hope you stick around, but this is going to be tough. This is going to be a tough relationship. And we hope you can do it, but who knows, kind of throwing out that sense of doubt. And I think we drove away from that house going, we're going to prove him wrong.

We're going to show him that this is hard, but we're going to, we're going to show him that this is hard, but we can also do it. Yep, I've always said, like, when we heard stuff like that, I always would tell her, like, it doesn't matter. We know what we've got. There was one thing they didn't know they had. Camille is in college, and one day her mom takes her aside and says she has something to show her.

And she pulls out the note that we'd been talking about since the beginning of our relationship. I mean, everyone knew this story about the note. And I was flabbergasted. I could not believe that that had resurfaced. No one knows how it ended up back at my parents' house. I don't know if, like, Miss Winters gave it to my parents at conferences, thinking it was something they'd want to hang on to.

My mom doesn't remember having it or why we had it, but there it was. It's funny because you talk about your parents not being very, like, sentimental or whatever, and yet your mom saved this note. That's true. I think she's kind of, like, secretly sentimental. Like, she does, she has feelings. We just don't know what they are. You guys got married last summer?

We did. And you put the note on display? Yes, it was there. We had it in a little frame. Camille doesn't usually post a Reddit, but she saw the Ask Reddit question, what is your true love story? And she answered. And this is one of the only times that I was like, yeah, hey, I want to say something

because I actually have something to contribute, and it panned out. Do you guys have anything you would say to each other at the end of this conversation? We keep looking over at each other and smiling. I would honestly just say like, there you go, you know, we prove the world wrong. We said we would. Here we are. We're in a place right now where our relationship is thriving. It couldn't be better.

We absolutely love our lives. And, you know, there's a ton of love in our household. I never imagined that at the age of 17, I would begin my journey with the man I intended to marry. and if we can be long distance for five and a half six years, then we can do anything because that was probably the hardest thing that we've done. So, or probably will do, I hope. So that's something I said in my vows was if we can do that, we can kind of prevail through anything. And I really believe that.

So I would say that to you. Let's keep prevailing. Ritchie, how do you spell embarrassed? E-M-B-A-R-A-S-S-E-D. Well done. Is that right? Two R's two S's? Yes, there is.

Wow. I'm glad you didn't ask me that. I went from zero to hero in the spelling game, that's for sure. Camille Carlson Ortiz and Richard Ortiz, thanks a lot for talking with us. Thank you. Yeah, definitely. Thanks for having us. Okay, I just want to acknowledge how much of a cheesy-ass hallmark card of an episode

we are apparently doing today because, Amory, this chafes my dark, mysterious, cynical soul. Can't deny true love, Benjo. All right, it's true. Also, we got something more up your alley coming up. Drugs, sex, rock and roll, mud, mud, also mud. Yes, my dark and twisted soul yearns to wallow in the sex drugs rock and roll mud. Well, you got that to look forward to coming up. At Radio Lab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science.

neuroscience, neuroscience, chemistry. But we do also like to get into other kinds of stories. Stories about policing or politics. Country music. Hockey. Sex. Of bugs. Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science,

we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers. And hopefully make you see the world anew. Radio Lab, adventures on the edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcast. There is something powerful about the sound of the human voice. Beautifully produced audio has the unique power to connect and inspire. Tell your organization's story with a custom podcast from CitySpace Productions, the Creative Studio from WBUR's business partnerships team.

Become a thought leader. Recruit new talent. Reach new audiences. Whatever your goal, we can help. Discover how the magic is made at WBUR.org.org slash creative studio. Hey, while we are talking about relationships today, both online and in the real world, we'd like to recommend another podcast on this topic. IRL. It's a podcast from Mozilla that gets real about life on the internet.

Veronica Belmont shares true stories about the disconnect between our online and offline selves. And real talk about issues like privacy breaches, hacking, fake news, and cyberbullying. They just did an episode about relationships online and in real life, everything from finding a biological parent online to a dating app closer. It's called Virtual. connections. Check out IRL from Mozilla at IRLpodcast.org or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, so a minute ago, we went back in time with Richie and Camille about 15 years. But for this one, let's go back a little further.

February of 1969, Nick was a college student working as a bartender in Middletown, New York, at a place called Dino's. Bobby was going out with one of my waiters, and the waiters used to station their dates or their girlfriends in front of their bartenders. And so her boyfriend at the time introduced us and asked me to keep an eye on her, which I was glad to do, by the way. Nick kept such a good eye on Bobby that by May, they were dating. A few months later, everyone was buzzing about a music festival happening about 40 miles away from Dinos in Bethel, New York. Woodstock. This is the largest group of people ever assembled in one place.

The important thing that you've proven to the world is that a half a million young people can get together and have three days of fun and music and have nothing but fun in music and I got pleasure for it. It was opening day of the festival, Friday, August 15th. Bobby and Nick were sitting on her front porch listening to the radio. The broadcaster said,

Boy, it's a mess up here. The roads are blocked. You can't move. If you plan on coming, do not. Well, we were 20. We had to. Yeah, what do you expect for 20-year-olds? 20-year-olds, am I right? The next morning, Bobby and Nick headed to Yasker's farm and their friend, Korky's car.

Well, technically, Korky's mom's car. Now, this vehicle was a 1965 Chevy and Pallist station wagon white with a red interior. You couldn't miss it for anything. And I think you needed a captain's license to drive it because it was so large. And we knew something was different when we got there because when we got out of the vehicle,

there was a young man sitting on the hood of the trooper car. He was wearing a pair of blue jeans, no shirt, and moccasins, and he was smoking a joint. And there was a young trooper standing maybe about 15 feet away. And we looked at each other because we knew back then, during the Rockville drug laws, if you got caught with a joint smoking it, you could end up in prison for five years with that.

And we just looked at each other and went, what is this? You know, the thing was there was no one up ahead. texting us or tweeting or sending us back any information. So we really didn't know what we were getting ourselves into. We just followed the crowd. Thousands of us on the little back road, just slapping of our sandals, just all going in the same direction.

And then, once they got to the festival? Well, your senses were assaulted. There were little vignettes of groupings all around. you. Families, individuals, a group of men, women, children, singing, dancing, laughing, yelling, yodeling, playing instruments, crying. The smells, it was a combination of campfire, weed, mud, humidity, body odor, puke, pechuley oil. The sites, and the sites, And sounds were... So forget a pot.

I did. We have said weed. It's worth saying again, probably. There you go. It just, it was like a kaleidoscope. It was an LSD trip without having dropped any acid. You notice anything missing from this list, Ben? Mud?

Did we do mud? Yep. Got mud. Sex? Sex. Mud, mud sex? I think you're looking for rock and roll. The answer you're looking for is rock and roll.

You got it. No disrespect to the artist for sure because we loved being there and listening to them. However, to me, when I think of Woodstock, I think what was going on around me, the mass of humanity that was swirling around me. Let's face it, the music was the draw to get the folks there. But what everybody remembers is the crowd that was there.

You had 450,000 people sitting in one alfalfa field listening to bands play. And it's important to remember, not only is that number huge even by today's mature music festival market standards, like twice Coachella and eight times Bonnaroo. The modern versions also have

like sprinkler zones, art markets, massage parlors, bougie food options, and $10 water. Woodstock, on the other hand, I can remember a case of bananas would go overhead. We'd reach in, grab some bananas, and pass the case on.

Wonderbread, cases of Wonderbread, bottled water, or gallons of water. It wasn't bottled water. And everybody shared what they had. Some of the folks put their garden hoses out so the kids could get drinks of water. Some gave it for free. Others charged a quarter. There's no place to go to the bathroom at all. I mean, so you can imagine kids tromping through the woods or hiding behind somebody's garage or barn or something like that.

Do you remember any of the actual music that you heard, any specific musician? She deferred to me. She deferred to me. Well, see, I remember Sly and a family stone. Nick and Bobby slept on a hill that night, surrounded by thousands of other festival goers. The next morning was Sunday, August 17, 1969. Do you remember that morning in particular?

No. No, not at all. We did not know the picture was taken. Listen, if you went to Woodstock, you don't remember anything. The picture. A man and a woman wrapped in a dirty blanket with pink trim. They're standing on the hill, and behind them, people sleeping on the ground, some trash. It was early in the morning.

The photo was taken by a guy named Burke Uzzell, which, of course, the guy's name was Burke Uzzell. Uzzell told Smithsonian magazine, Gracie Slick of Jefferson Airplane was singing, bringing up the dawn. And just magically, this couple stood up and hugged. They kissed, smiled at each other, and the woman leaned her head on the man's shoulder. I just had time to get off a few frames of black and white and a few of color. And that's how Nick and Bobby Erkaline unknowingly became the cover of the official Woodstock album. Our buddy quirky is basically a two-legged music Bible. He has an enormous collection.

So on a typical Friday night, we all got together and had his apartment. and we're sitting around listening to the album, and we're drinking beer and doing whatever and passing the album jacket around. And then somebody says, who's in the picture? And it was like, oh, my God, you've got to be kidding me. And it was at that time I felt, maybe I ought to tell my mother that I went.

Two years and ten days after that picture was taken, Nick and Bobby got married. And our first son was born eight years after that. our second son, two years later. Life moved on. They settled down in Middletown, New York, where they'd first met. Bobby became a school nurse. Nick became a carpenter.

Things were pretty quiet. Until the 20th anniversary of Woodstock rolled around. 1989. Bobby saw an ad in her local newspaper. Life magazine was putting together a special edition for the anniversary of Woodstock. And they wanted stories from people who were there. Bobby wrote a little something and sent it in. The phone started to ring and ring and ring and ring with every radio station and news

organization, I think, in the world. Oh, man, you went viral before going viral was a thing. Yeah, pretty much. We've been on the Oprah show. Whoa. Oh, I know, I know, I know. We were on her show significant photos of the 20th century. Wow.

That's pretty neat. Why do you think that photo of you, too, was chosen to be the country? cover? I don't know why it was chosen, but I do think that it has maintained its popularity and people are so interested in it because Nick and I are still together. That theory definitely checks out on Reddit. Nick and Bobby's story has surfaced dozens of times there over the years, like this post from nine years ago. Holy moly, the couple hugging under a blanket on the cover of the Woodstock album are still together. Forty-nine years in total. Two kids, four grandkids. And somebody wrote a song about us, too. You can find it on YouTube. It's called The Couple in the Cover. It's really cute. We kind of,

enjoy it. How does it feel to have this thing that is a representation of, yes, your love, but also something so much bigger than that? You know, there's a lot of scary, sad stuff in today's world. A lot of troublesome, burdensome stuff that's just, can be oppressive and depressing. This is happy. I love being part of it, even if it is just a little bit. We should probably say Woodstock is a happy memory, but it was also arguably a reaction to a lot of scary, sad stuff going on in the 60s. Nick and Bobby continue to be a part of that reaction. They volunteer regularly at the Bethelwood Center for the Arts,

a performance and education center that sits on the original side of the festival. And that's where you'll find them next year for the 50th anniversary of Woodstock. Do you think another Woodstock could happen today? You know, there can be another Woodstock, but don't call it Woodstock. Make your own memories. Make your own big event. It's just a different time now. It's a different time.

What about the blanket in that photo? You know, the dirty blanket with the pink trim that Nick and Bobby found on the ground at Woodstock? Well, they kept it for about 10 years. They took it to picnics and kept it in their car. And now they have no idea where it is. It's probably in a landfill somewhere. As for the photo, that photographer, Burke Uzzell, had only three physical copies made. One of them hangs in his gallery.

Another is in the Smithsonian, and the third, it's hanging up in Nick and Bobby's kitchen. Remember what we've said and done and felt about each other. I look at the picture as a couple of 20-year-old kids falling in love with each other. That's how I look at that picture. But it also is somewhat of a responsibility to it to make sure that people know what it stands for, what the truth is about it, how it happened. what really happened there. Why do you think your relationship has stood the test of time?

Because we love each other? Well, aside from that, yes, without a doubt. But, you know, marriage is hard. There's good times and there's bad times. You've got to choose your battles. Sometimes it's a whole lot easier to be happy than to be right. And you have to ask yourself, am I better off with or without this person?

And if you're better off with, then you make it work. What would you do if I say how to tune? Would you stand up on your clown? Bobby and Nick Urqueline, aka the Woodstock couple, making it work since 1969. Emery, what do you think these two stories tell us? Bring some bananas and a blanket the next time you go to a music festival and always tell the truth about your second grade crushes, at least in note form.

Otherwise, you'll never be able to prove you're not a random weirdo on the internet. Or at least if you are a random weirdo on the internet, you're one of the good ones. I cannot wait for next week's episode, crushing tales of sadness and woe, to follow this Disney animated movie ending of an episode. You loved it. Okay, I did. Endless Threat is a production of WBUR, Boston's NPR station, in partnership with Reddit. Our show is a dream realized by Jessica Alpert, who heard the first draft of this episode and said,

Damn, that's interesting. Iris Adler is our executive producer, and when we asked her what she thought about all of these subreddit credits, she responded, Lose it. Mix and sound designed by Paul Vicus and John Parati, who with their thick beards are often mistaken for dogs with jobs. Our web producer is Megan Kelly, and when she's not. making our website beautiful, she's pouring time and money into her. Skincare addiction. Michael Pope is our advisor at Reddit, whose favorite genre of music is...

Music French people might play at a party or just with friends around. Even though you don't always hear his voice, it is important to mention that our fellow producer, Josh Swartz, can also say that endless thread is... Something I Made. Extra production assistance from James Lindberg. Our intern is Josh Luckens. Our theme music is by Squelcher. Thanks to Redditor Her Coffin for this week's artwork. It is called The Red Thread of Fate on Reddit.

We are Endless underscore Thread if you want to contribute art for an upcoming episode or give us a juicy story tip so we can tell it like we did today. Hit us up there. Hey, by the way, this week was the 49th anniversary of Woodstock in case you want to burn some sage or give someone a banana for scale or for eating or just wrap your loved one up in a blanket. I encourage all of these things. My co-host and producer is Amory Sieverton. I'm senior producer and host Ben Brock Johnson. I'll let myself out.