Endless Thread - Treasure in the Woods

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Since the pandemic, foraging has exploded in popularity. Younger generations are embracing (or romanticizing) the great outdoors with trends like #cottagecore and #vanlife. But our Endless Thread team decided to learn the do's and don'ts of foraging from someone who learned how to forage since childhood — not as a trend, but as a way of life. A special thanks to Soul Fire Farm for letting us visit in Albany, NY.

Support for endless thread comes from Mathworks, creator of MATLAB and Simulink Software, to design and develop engineered systems, accelerating the pace of discovery in engineering and science. Learn more at Mathworks.com. Support for WBUR comes from Is Business Broken, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at Boston University that explores questions like, why is innovation in healthcare so hard? Is ESG just greenwashing? of course, is business broken? Listen, wherever you get your podcasts. WBUR Podcasts, Boston. It's the end of summer in 2022, and Amory and I are out in the woods again, baby. Make and miss you. Yeah, even a no trespassing sign that's never stopped us before. That's true. For better or worse. But we're not alone. Our colleague and producer Megan Kattel is leading us through the tall grass surrounding a house. just off a road in upstate New York

that looks a little creepy. Okay, we're trying to find the entrance. I'm going to say this is not the place we're going for. Maybe they can tell us where to go. Pretty sure it's down the hill. I think that's a security light. I don't think that's a... Megan is helping us search for a treasure in the woods.

Which, as I was saying, was down the hill. All right, it was down the hill. Down the hill on a dirt road, we found a big, dirt parking lot with a guy in it driving some heavy equipment, and he was going to help us get to our treasure in the woods, a treasure of a human named Ria. How you doing? We're looking for Ria.

Ria? Yeah. Straight back on the farm. Okay, cool. Straight back and on the right. On the right. She is something. Yeah?

Yeah, just walks into the woods and comes back with... Have you ever benefited from her finds? I think she made me some couple of different drinks, yes, so I would say yes. Cool. Couldn't tell you. She gave it to me, I drank it. Juicy juice. Yeah, it could have been.

What's your name? Kirk. Kirk. Well, thanks for talking to us. We're just here for the day, and then we'll get out of your way. Thank you very much. Thank you. Welcome.

Have a good rest of your day. We will. We will. We'll tell her, she, we'll tell her Kirk told us to make us a drink. There we go. Yeah. So tell me everything that you know, Megan. So I first found Rhea during the pandemic.

It was 2020. Couldn't leave my house. And I was getting recommended these tweets of these gorgeous harvest of this person named Ria on Twitter who was like, I just found like this 10 pound chicken of the woods. mushroom and chicken of the woods is giant mushroom and people fry it and it tastes like chicken. Can't confirm it tastes like chicken. Can't confirm chicken flavor, never had chicken of the woods, but we were about to learn a lot more from Ria, who was like standing on the crest of a hill, waving to us through the sunlight like royalty or something and greeting us with hugs.

Hi. Hi. Hi. I love your fanny pack. Very appropriate. Nice to meet you. Thank you for having us. Yeah. Come in. You're all ready for being in the forest? I think so. We are ready, but before traipsing into the woods,

we get a view of a small circle of beautiful cabins and a sprawling garden that spills down a long south-facing hill. I love your fields here. Yeah, this is that. And your hoop houses. Soul Fire Farm, it's a nonprofit organization for like food justice and of racism. Soul Fire Farm's mission, among other things, is quote, uprooting racism and seeding sovereignty in the food system. Long, hand-planted rows of napa cabbage, green onions and dicon planted largely by farmers of color will be turned into kimchi and delivered for free to.

people in Albany and Troy, New York. Ria, who is from Indonesia, is part of this program. You've probably heard of farm shares or community-supported agriculture, CSAs that you can pay into to get some of the fruit of the land. Well, this is called a solidarity share. We have, like, I think, 25 household, and then there's many, like, other community, like free food, fridge, Albany, and this, yeah.

I was in Hudson recently at a restaurant and there was a refrigerator. Yeah, yeah. Out with like a bunch of food in it for people to take if they wanted to. So is it that kind of thing? Yes, yes. I think it's like that. So we always have extra, especially like this time of year. We harvest a lot of food and we just like learn and how to invite the community and cook, make kimchi together in this kitchen.

And then we deliver the kimchi to people who need it for their long year winter probiotic food, something like that. So, yeah, that's part of my job. This is very cool. But it's not really why we're here to meet Rio. We came here to find a treasure of a human in the woods who is going to teach us about finding treasure in the woods. Specifically, mushroom treasure, which is part of a huge explosion of foraging. that has been happening across the U.S. in recent years.

It got a real boost during the pandemic, and it's still going strong. It's also part of a palpable and growing interest among younger generations to get back to the land, baby. Today, a glimpse of the foraging movement online and off the beaten path. And a glimpse of maybe some treasure in the woods, something delicious, like oyster mushrooms. The one that grew on in a while, it tastes like, has umami fruity sweetness to it and like when you caramelize it is so good especially if you

feel like i never thought my mouth would water from the mushroom i love making like oyster bunmy sandwich oh my god it's so good emory's very excited yeah i know we should go foraging yeah yeah i was gonna say i'm hungry let's go i have so many questions but i feel like you can ask them along the way yes yes into the woods okay emory heard Oyster mushroom bond me, and she just ran into the woods. We never saw her again after that. She died happy among the mushrooms. I'm Ben Brat Johnson, and nobody's going to die among the mushrooms.

Not today. As long as you follow those safety guidelines. And I'm Amory Siebertson, and you are listening to Endless Thread. We're coming to you from a lush forest in upstate New York for WBUR, Boston's NPR station. Today's episode, Treasure in the Woods. At Radio Lab, we love nothing more than nerding out about science, neuroscience, chemistry. But, but we do also like to get into other kinds of stories, stories about policing, or politics, country music, hockey, sex, of bugs. Regardless of whether we're looking at science or not science, we bring a rigorous curiosity to get you the answers.

And hopefully, make you see the world anew. Lab, Adventures on the Edge of what we think we know. Wherever you get your podcast. There is something powerful about the sound of the human voice. Beautifully produced audio has the unique power to connect and inspire. Tell your organization's story with a custom podcast from City Space Productions, the creative studio from WBUR's Business Partnerships Team. Become a thought leader.

Recruit new talent. Reach new audiences. Whatever your goal, we can help. Discover how the magic is made. made at WBUR.org slash creative studio. So when our producer Megan discovered Ria during the height of the pandemic, it was through Ria's Twitter and Instagram profiles, full of videos of how to pickle all kinds of things that could last through the winter.

It was, well, organic. And how it's going to last for the whole winter? And I'm like, wow, this is amazing. You know, I, and people were commenting things like, I want to learn how to do that. I want to like forage too. But Megan was part of a huge trend. Remember Cottage Corps, Amory? Oh, yeah.

All those puffy dresses advertised to me on Instagram, milkmade vibes, escapism. I think Soulfire Farm is more cabin core, but what do I know? I believe you. Well, this is all part of this return to nature trend among younger generations. And it's been happening for years now. When Megan was watching Rhea Pickle Things in 2021, the TikTok hashtag foraging had about 15 million views.

Two years later, it has 10 times that many, 150 million. And it's intersecting with rising trends in veganism and also a renewed interest in farming and reconnecting with natural spaces. I don't love this turn of phrase, but I do love this for humanity, I have to say. Samezies. And there's this horde of foraging influencers growing on Instagram and TikTok. The foraging subreddit now has 600,000 users, Amory. Also, it's in the top 1% of communities on Reddit right now.

There's not going to be anything left to forage pretty soon. And part of the reason there's... It's going to be picked over. Yeah. And part of the reason there's so much content about this is that there's a lot to learn about foraging mushrooms and other plants, which is why we're going out into the woods with someone who knows what she's doing. Also, someone who has a very particular approach.

To me, foraging is like something that a nature, a matter of nature, give to you if they allow you to find it. Ooh, I like that. That's good. Yeah. Ria came to the U.S. from Indonesia in 2017. So I grew up in a village, a very, very little village where everyone grow their own food. My family is a fisherman. And then my mom is an herbalist.

So she grew medicine and also grow her own food. But like our community rely on my father to like for fish. And my other neighbor like do like vegetables. So I grew up in this kind of environment, but we don't call it as a work. It's just something that we do. According to Ria, her village was so small that there really wasn't such a thing as a nine to five job there. Your work was literally gathering food to stay alive. Want to eat chicken for dinner tomorrow?

You better go kill one of your chickens today and start gathering herbs and making a fire. She says there's not even really an equivalent word for foraging in her language. The first time Ria saw television, she says, was when she was a senior in high school. And it was like a window into the rest of the world. And I was like, I don't want to live like this,

like my father, my mom, like being in the soil. I want to work in the office, air conditioning. And, like, high hills and all those things, like, you know, like, what I see. She moved 12 hours away from her family's village, got an office job, high heels, meetings. She studied international relations and soft diplomacy. She worked for the UN. I was, like, feeling happy, but not happy. I was like, okay, this is what my life goes already.

Like, I look smart. But I'm not happy. And I was like, I miss my little village where I don't have to wake up, like, 6 a.m. and dealing with a lot of meeting and stuff. The city felt weird to Ria. Even the supermarkets were strange. A bunch of chicken breasts all in one package separated from the feet, the heart, and the liver.

I walk in the supermarket and I was like, oh my God. Look at all this is me. It looks like a bookshel. It's like books and a bookshelf, right? I was like, I never seen it in my life. But before Ria headed back home, her life took another big turn.

She got into a relationship that brought her all the way from Indonesia to outside of Albany, New York, where it was cold. Also, her relationship ended. She didn't know anyone in this new place. She was lonely. Then, as luck would have it,

Ria's neighbor down the road, who happened to be one of the co-founders of Soulfire Farm, reached out. She invited me to go dinner, and then just like, know the neighbors, and it's like, oh, yeah, I'm a chef and things like that we talk about. And like, oh, do you want to join the team as the chef at the farm? And I'm like, yeah, I'm totally into it.

And now I'm still here. Ria is now the farm-to-table manager at Soulfire Farm. And family and foraging are still very connected for her in her work. Growing up in Indonesia, gathering medicinal plants with her mother to help heal her fellow villagers, Ria takes foraging pretty seriously. So she always starts her foraging trips by setting an intention of what she's looking for and how much, and asking the forest for permission. So we pause at the tree line and we kneel in the grass where the old stone wall is broken next to a meadow full of golden rod. The forest, the matter of nature, I'm coming here, and thank you so much for welcoming me with the peaceful of the noise.

of the foist of this forest, I'm coming here to collect mushroom. About 100 yards into the woods, we've come upon a feld tree covered in mushrooms. Do we find something already? Ria says she uses this mushroom to boost her immune system in the winter. Yes, this is true.

You tell a mushroom, wow, and they're young. How do you know they're young? You see, there is no, like, mull grow in it, and then the spore is very white and there's no gill. Okay. And it's very flexible. And the color of it, it looks like a turkey tail. Yeah, it does.

Right? Absolutely. Ria takes a small hooked blade knife out of her mushroom print fanny pack and starts cutting. This log is covered in turkey tail mushroom, but it's also covered in false turkey tail mushroom. There are some subtle differences. The false turkey tail is a little more purple, a little less red. This one isn't poison, but a lot of mushrooms that people might want to harvest have poisonous lookalikes, which is why it's always good to go out with someone who knows their stuff.

And to start with beginner things, like things that don't have poisonous lookalike species. Do you know black trumpets? Oh my God, I love black trumpet. Those are my favorite too. That's what I was hoping for when we were kneeling. That's what I was like black trumpets. Unfortunately, Ben's pre-forging prayer just wasn't powerful enough. I tried, man. I tried.

Oh, well. You had an eagle eye, though. I feel like I see some in the distance. You see that on that down. Oh, my God. Good call, Ann. I think that is bear-tooth fungi. Come in! It's like a same lion's mane. Oh my God, good eye.

Down next to a stream, a little further into the woods, we find some lion's mane mushroom, which looks sort of like if a head of cauliflower and some sea coral had a baby. Ria says last year in this same spot, she found 10 pounds of this mushroom. I left it a little bit, assuming it will grow again maybe next year, the mycelium. And here we are. Yay! Here we are. Well, it's a testament to your philosophy that you shouldn't...

Yeah, that you shouldn't take all of it. You just take some of it. Megan, you should get a shot of that thing. Okay. Yeah, that's... Get a shot. This is an important part of what Ria preaches in her work as a burgeoning forager influencer.

Don't just take everything you find on a foraging trip. Take what you need and leave some for the next person. Or for next year. Another thing Rhea talks about a lot is how the foraging trend has some less great trends within it. People driving hundreds of miles in cars to forage. And yes, not everyone has a backyard, but if you do, don't take a big long road trip. Look at what's growing in your own immediate area. Learn about your immediate ecosystem.

This is not an easy life, I would say. It's not, it's a process. It's like many, like, sea, like. like, dealing with weather, noticing everything. But the reason why I share it, because I want people to do it too. Like, not just as a hobby, but it is the way of living to help us sustainable life. Like, we don't need to buy produce from a big, giant supermarket. But you can grow your own food or also you can go to a farmer's market and support local farmers.

Yeah, it is a little bit. be, you know, tricky in that way, but that's my, I guess, that's my intention when I have a social media, when I post it something, I want people to see it. This is the way of living beautiful, naturally, like, like sustainably, but it is the process. This is my life and you also can do it. Ria has her own very large garden behind a homestead she's building on land adjacent to Solfire Farm. And she's also cultivating Shataki mushrooms, not just foraging for fungi. Yeah, Hawthor.

It's good for heart. Get the berries and you can make ketchup with it. Ketchup, really? Yes. Hawthor and ketchup. Wow. So we're coming back out of the woods to Soul Fire Farm with a lot. not just turkey-tail mushrooms, but a whole pile of pancake-sized shittakis.

And, of course, a big old clump a lion's mane. The farm's educational orientation around farm-to-table food necessitates a pretty legit working kitchen just a few yards from its fields and hoop houses. Soulfire brings in groups of people to work on and train on the farm every year, learning how to pasture-raise livestock, grow vegetables, fruit. And, of course, forward. mushrooms, and medicinal plants on the farm's 80 acres of land. Soulfire's work and programs are focused on food sovereignty,

on bringing people of color into farming education, not just as workers, but as owners and operators of farms around the country and the world. With this kind of ambition for changing the world? You need a lot of facilities, and the timber frame barn that holds the kitchen built with recycled and reclaimed insulation is spacious and full of ingredients. It only takes a few minutes from us walking out of the woods and into the barn for Ria to start cooking.

So I'm like making the cuscuses. They're cooking it with just water and salt and saute this onion and olive oil and add a little bit salt while I'm sauteing it. And then I'm eating the garlic. Onion has like very sweet. So like, there you go.

And with mushroom, like what we say before we want to clean it, but we don't want to wash it with water because it's consists a lot of water. And when we want to saute, we want it to be, I like to like in high heat the first time to reduce the water first and to like and then later to a very low medium to keep the texture. You can tell Ria knows her stuff because already the meal smells amazing. Some other Soulfire Farm folks have joined us to chop veggies and hang out. Naima Pennyman is the farm's director of education and programming

who has helped Rhea and many other visitors get their bearings on foraging mushrooms that are delicious and not dangerous. And then another way to identify when you're not sure is to take a spore print of the mushroom, which is like a fingerprint that the mushroom gives off and you can take a cap from your harvest, go home, put it under a glass or a bowl on paper, and see the spore print it drops. And the color of the spores gives you yet another clue if you're like, ooh, it could be this, it could be that. Our meal of mushrooms pulled from the woods and cuscus pulled from the bar, and kitchen shelves is ready.

Yes, marie mackan. Thank you so much for sharing. Marri Makan means let's eat. It is so good. It might taste a little bit better because, you know, we gathered some of the ingredients ourselves. It doesn't hurt.

We close our time with some thoughts on what kind of mushrooms we would be if we were mushrooms, like you do. Lions, maim. Lions. Why? They feel so delicate on the outside.

And then they have this immense amount of mass and so many healing properties. I think they're beautiful to look at. Also, this younger generation's hopes for the impact of their work, in the forest or in the field. So my prayer and vision in the world that I'm committed to co-creating affords all of us a sense of felt safety where we can go to bed, feeling safe at night, move through our day without the threat of violence. I imagine us being in reciprocity with nature, not seeing her as something separate, but seeing ourselves as part of this interdependent web and that our actions are contributing to this

sense of a shared destiny as opposed to, you know, we're going to just take what we need for ourselves and run, you know. So coming back into balance, letting go of excess. Forria, who has been on a long journey from her hometown in Indonesia, who has had a city life and a very rural life, it seems like she has reached her own treasure in the woods. She's got a place to be a job. She's got a daughter and a lifestyle that fits her needs and her belief system for how to be in the world. To me, like, it just being in community, like, feel say, like, what I, like, echo what all Naima says, but, like, just, like, a simple, like, everyone have their own task and responsibility, being in the community, like, my daughter, I want her to have a healthy environment,

I want her to feel like, oh, spring is cool, like many flowers growing, like snow melting. It's not hot spring. You know, I want that the word from my daughter and then her daughter and her granddaughter to be in this world and to feel safe. This episode was produced by Megan Kattel and me, Ben Brock Johnson. It was co-hosted by Mushroom Bond Me Freak. Amory Sievertson and sound designed by Consumit Woodsman Paul Vycus. Our managing producer is Samata Joshi. The rest of our team includes Grace Tatter, Quincy Walters, Dean Russell, Norris Sacks, Matt Reed, and Emily Jenkowski.

If you've got an untold history and an unsolved mystery, you want us to tell, hit us up, email us endless underscore thread at WbUR.org. You can also find photos of this adventure and more information about Soulfire Farm and Ria at WBUR.org.org slash endless thread. You should also check out our subreddit, R slash endless thread. Our show is about the blurred lines between a lion's main and an influencer telling you

to drive 300 miles. Don't do it. Just get into your backyard. Later, nerds.