EntreLeadership - #104: Paul Angone–The Keys to Leading Millennials

Episode Date: July 20, 2015

Millennial expert and best-selling author Paul Angone joins us to discuss how to hire, lead, and connect with Generation Y. Also on the episode, EntreLeadership Coach John Felkins continues the conversation by discussing the pros and cons of working with millennials.  Additional resources:  entreleadership.com/podcast FREE EntreLeader’s Guide to Hiring  Another great episode sponsored by our friends at Infusionsoft.   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

We go one-on-one with millennial expert Paul Angoni, and we get a visit from Entree Leadership Coach John Falcons. That and so much more starts right now. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the podcast of Leaders, by Leaders, and Four Leaders. Thanks for hanging out with us.

We know you get to choose from so many podcasts, so we appreciate you downloading us. Millennials, they're here to stay. And these kids get a bad rap sometimes. Some of you exers and boomers complain about these good folks. We have a lot of millennials running around this building, and I can tell you, they are eagles. You can find eagles from the millennial generation. So we're going to focus on this. Paul Angoni is a good friend and an expert on millennials.

We're going to talk about how do you lead millennials? How do you hire millennials? What makes them tick? How are they wired? What shapes them? These things you need to know. You cannot turn a blind eye to this very talented generation. I saw an article recently that cited a recent study about millennials.

It's called Gen Y on the job. Some interesting things I want to point out from this Forbes article. The first thing is that millennials don't think workers should be expected to stay with their employer more than a year. You know just from history, just juxtapose that finding with the fact that boomers and then the greatest generation, using Tom Brokaw's term, for the parents of the boomers, it was not unlikely for them to literally put widgets together for 40 years. Same job. They never even thought about a different job. They were just happy to have the job they had. 26% of millennial surveyed said that workers should only be expected to stay in a job a year or less before looking for a new position.

You can roll your eyes shake your head, but this is an important thing to understand. They are just wired for something new. They get bored quick. Next, finding I want to point out, millennials are fast learners who bring expertise and emerging skills to the workforce. So these are things like Google Analytics. social media optimization, right? That, by the way, social media optimization, that phrase didn't even exist three years ago. The point is they're very quick learners specifically in technology. Here's a final thought from this article, and I think it's absolutely spot on. If you're trying to

recruit millennials and keep millennials, you're going to have to focus intentionally on training, mentorship, and other professional benefits beyond their salary. And this may be the most important thing to understand. Millennials like feedback. You're going to have to plan to give them regular feedback. They like it. Remember, this is the group that has shown up and got a trophy no matter how many games they won. So anyway, Forbes.com, by the way, if you want to check that out, just search Forbes.com,

N-Y on the job. That is the name of the study. There's more in the article. But I think it's important to frame this as we get into an all-important discussion on leading millennials with Paul Angoni, the author of All Grown Up. By the way, that is All Grown as in G-R-O-A-N, because we know it's hard to grow up. By the way, we are still offering our Entree Leaders Guide to Hiring, very valuable free resource on how to hire Eagles and repel Turkey. I told you about this in our last podcast, and I think it's important to remember that you can still get this, because we're going to be talking about how do you hire and lead millennials. So we want to make sure that you take this opportunity. It's absolutely free, no strings attached. Just text the phrase, EL Hire, as in Entree Leadership, EL Hire to 3344-4.

3344, text the keyword, EL Hire, and we'll send you free the gospel on how to hire good people. Yes, I said that. The Entree Leaders Guide to Hiring. Days figured it out. Now he's telling you how he's done it and done it well. Here's my conversation with Paul Angoni. All right, Paul, I love what you do. I've been following your work for a while and this new book, all grown up, searching for self-faith and a freaking job, I think is a great topic for the leaders who are listening in today. And so let's address your opinion, your observation on what are the unique challenges? the unique context for the millennial worker because we've got men and women who are hiring, who have hired, who will hire, and then they have to lead and develop these millennials. And we hear a lot of stuff about millennials in the news, but I want to know what you think and what you've found as you have written about them, written to them, and you're helping them. Yeah, I think, Ken, you know, it is an interesting time. There's so much change in shifting going on, especially in the work environment.

as you have this flood of millennials coming in. And I know I hear the frustration from older generations, from Gen X or boomers, you know, wondering, gosh, what's wrong with all these millennials? Why can't they just figure it out? And so I know that they have those pain points. So, yeah, I love helping kind of be that translator to say, okay, here's the unique things going on with millennials. Because there are some unique challenges that they're experiencing as they enter the workforce

that are probably different than generations past. All right. And so what are a couple of things that stick out to you? And the perspective I want you to share is from the person who's leading, who's hiring these young people. What are a couple of pitfalls or traps that maybe leaders can avoid when hiring and leading these millennials? Yeah. When you hire and lead a millennial, I think the first key step is relationship. relationship first and everything else second.

You know, before you start laying out office protocol, before you start laying out their job description or their job duties, you know, before you go into that entry mode of getting them prepared, you know, even if it's just a quick 30-minute coffee with the millennial, even if it's inviting them into your office and letting them feel at home, that's going to go so far in getting them involved and bought into your company because when you build that relationship, they feel known. They feel like they're, okay, I'm going to be heard here.

And this leader is taking time to understand me. So I'm actually a person. I'm not just the bottom line. And I think for millennials, that is so crucial because they're looking for that relationship piece and they want to be heard. Well, Paul, let me ask you this. What is the impetus for this? Now, you know, John Maxwell said this years and years ago.

One of his 21 laws of irrefutable leadership was the law of a buy-in. So people have to buy into you, you know, before they buy into the bigger picture. So this is not a new phenomenon. But what you're getting at, we have seen from data and from commentary in the news, and that is this generation, these millennials, they're really relational, more so than past generations. Why is that? What's the impetus for this? They really want to be heard and they want to be understood.

And, you know, as a leader, they want to know, your flaws. They want to know your mistakes. You know, the age of the superhero leader with no flaws is dead. You know, millennials really want something real and authentic. You know, authenticity is a big buzzword for millennials. They want something authentic, real, raw. They want, they want the truth. You know, and I think a lot of the impetus is coming from, they've been marketed to, they've been spoken to, people have been trying to lead them, and they don't feel like that the leaders really care about them. And so they are so relationship-driven because they want that authenticity.

And they want to know you as a person as well as you knowing them as a person. And that creates that buy-in for a millennial that, okay, they can feel at home now. Because if you make them feel like they're in a foreign country, you know, a millennial will continue to travel. And that's what we see. They pick up their backs quickly and they'll move on if they don't feel like, okay, I'm at home here. here. Wow. I think this is a much deeper conversation. I really do. And I can't totally unpack it, and it's not fair to you. But I want to stay here for a moment. Sure. Because I think that leaders need to understand what you and I are discussing right now. And I think you've nailed it. I think you're right.

But can I suggest that these kids, these millennials, because they're kids to me, for heaven's sakes, Can I suggest that they've been told a half story or in some cases they've been lied to? What I mean by that is everyone's a winner, everybody gets a trophy, and they've been packaged to, meaning everything's so slick, and they get it, and they want something a little bit more raw. When you say authentic, I just think they just kind of want to see it stripped of its varnish. Am I right? Is it because we've lied to them? And the reason I ask, so if it is, in fact, because we've kind of lied to them, or we've kind of told them our half story, or we've, we've shined the story up to make them feel good, that what we need as leaders to do is just be blatantly honest with them.

Yes. Is that the conclusion? Totally. Totally. And, you know, that's the struggle, you know, that I speak into. You know, when I'm talking to millennials, I hear their struggle, and it's so real. And they really are struggling to find out, you know, what they're good at and what their strengths are. And where do they fit in this work environment that is constantly changing, you know,

that the stability under millennials doesn't feel very stable. You know, the only thing that's stable is all the instability. You know, so they're really struggling to find their place, and they do want something real. They want a mentor or a leader or, you know, even their parents who can say, you know, what, gosh, it was tough for me. You know, thinking back when I was 25 or when I was 21 leaving college, you know, I didn't have it figured out either. You know, and then they, you know, if a leader shares their story, if they can think

back to a time when they didn't quite have it all figured out too, that gives that safe space for a millennial to be trying to let their guard down and say, wow, okay, I can be heard here. You know, vulnerability, you know, begets vulnerability. And it creates that connection from one year where they're like, okay, I'm not just, this is not just a corporate vision statement anymore. This is not just a, you're telling me the mission of this organization that I have to fit into. Now, this is more real and substantial than that because you know me and I'm getting to know you. Now, there's a pattern developing what you're saying.

And I want to go to another level. You talked about, I've heard multiple times you say that they need to know that they're heard, that they're valued, if I can use an old business term. but there's another side to this young group, this millennial and younger generation. And I think it's about meaning, not just personal meaning. Like we all crave significance. Yes. But I think they want to hear the story and how it connects to the greater good. Isn't that a huge burden for leaders to connect with this young generation and get them bought in?

Oh, totally. You articulated that really well, Ken. I often say for millennials, one of their biggest fear is insignific. One of their biggest fears is kind of doing the mundane eight to five job or they're just doing their task, but it's not tied into anything bigger. And this doesn't have to be a big cause. It doesn't have to be, you know, your company is outchanging the world. You know, maybe your company is doing very something specific, but you're right. A millennial wants to understand the bigger picture.

You know, so I often even tell leaders, you know, let millennials have a seat at the adult table. You know, I think a lot of millennials, they feel like in the office that they're still sitting at the kids' table with the plastic forks while the real adults talk about all the important things, you know. We're more than they want to seat at the adult table. You know, even if they don't have anything to say right now, even if they don't know, you know, where the company is going, they're at least hearing those conversations and they start hearing the bigger picture, the bigger vision of, okay, you might be doing this smaller role. You know, maybe you're filing papers or you're working on spreadsheets or you're doing kind of the more mundane work that an entry-level job might be. But here's how it's tied into the bigger picture and here's how you're making a difference at a bigger level because now you've set that vision and you've let them have a seat at the adult table. I like that. But I feel like we may need to delineate which tables.

Like not every table, not every dinner. Sure. Do they get to sit there? Because if you come at the table and you start throwing food and you start throwing food and you, and you spill your drink and you make a mess, then I'm putting you back at the kids' table. You follow what I'm saying. Like, I want people to hear what you're saying.

You're not saying they need to be at every table all the time. No. But we are saying bring them into the bigger discussion so that they get how their role plays into the bigger story and how the big story of the company plays into work that matters. That's what they're crazy. Totally. Yeah.

Totally. And you can even tell them, you know, I had an amazing boss that he would just, you know, come into my office and he'd say, I'm meeting with some VPs. You know, I just want you to come, and I don't necessarily want you to even say anything. You know, I haven't even given you time to prepare or anything. I just want you to sit there and listen, and I just want to invite you into the room. Yeah, that's good right there.

That's you. Just sit there. Don't say anything. Just sit there. They set the expectations. Yeah. I don't want you to speak up. You don't even know what you're going to be talking about.

That's right. I just want to invite you in. That's right. And that alone was like, man, he's investing in me because he's kind of let me hear the inside. scoop, man, I would do anything for that boss. And that's how I felt. I felt like, man, I would do anything for him because he's letting me in on the inside. And he respects and values me enough as a follower that he's letting into the leadership circle. Well, I got to say this, because this is coming from me to our listeners who are millennials. I struggled with this when I was in

my 20s. I always had an opinion. And a lot of times I was close to right. But the thing that I didn't do a good job of, and a lot of you don't, is timing and earning the right to speak. And if you're in a healthy environment with somebody you work with who's older and leads you or works with you, they will be okay with your opinion, but you've got to earn it. They'll just come in, you know, dough-eyed tail wagon and give everybody your opinion off the bat, because you don't know everything. Yes. I think that's an important distinction, because you are valuable, very valuable. Totally. Totally. You know, and I think I do hear that. You know, millennials, come in and they're excited and they start seeing all the problems, you know, quote-unquote

problems. You know, this is what I would change and this is what I would do differently. And they start releasing those opinions. And sometimes those opinions aren't the most well-received because, gosh, you've been there for a month. So maybe you don't fully understand, you know, the full scope. So I hear those pain points. You know, I even, you know, encouraged leaders to even just jump right into it right away. You know, so when the millennial steps in, I encourage them to say, hey, I want you to start picking apart all the things you think we're doing wrong. How would you do this differently? You know, these meetings that you're coming to, how would you run them better?

You know, those things, I want you to start asking those questions, but I'm not going to let you give me any of your results for at least six months. So start coming up with your list of things you would change. But I want you to at least hold off for six months to really feel like you're kind of at least understand a little bit of the culture and what's going on. Maybe you can see things differently. This is why we do them the way we do them. But at least it gives that space again to say, okay, well, I can start looking at this because they are. You know, they are going to look at that.

So just cut them off at the front end and say, I totally want you to do that. And I don't want to hear your opinion because you look at things differently, but maybe wait until six months. And then we can talk about it. And I'll set up a meeting for us to talk about these things. You know, Paul, you have some great insight on failure. And I want to couch this question for leaders who do realize that we generation Xers and the baby boomers have bubble wrapped its generation. So they're not used to failure. They're not used to being told you're not the best out there.

There's about eight kids on the soccer field who are better than you today, Johnny, but I still love you and you still have great value. They're just not used to hearing that. So with that being the context, how can leaders allow these young people to fail? so that they can fail forward. Yep, that's a great point. And you're right. You know, and that's a lot of what I talk into, you know, in my book all grown up, you know, on my website, when I'm talking to millennials,

I really am helping them kind of pick up the pieces when they've failed completely. And they actually have realized now that they've failed. Because a lot of times even a millennial will fail, but then they're pretty sure they've actually succeeded somehow because they're not, you're right, they're not used to failing. You know, especially in school, the whole rules and the whole goal was to get good, grades and I'm not really venture off of that because you don't want to fail. Right.

So for a leader, you know, I think it's sometimes millennials want to do something big. They want to have big responsibility. They want to be involved in the bigger picture. So I think a leader can even give a millennial something, a project or something that is going to be over their head. It's going to be over their pay scale. You know, they're probably not going to be able to accomplish it completely. You know, and you know you're kind of setting.

them up to not fail completely, but to have kind of a half result because they're probably not going to accomplish everything that you want them to. And I think that's an invaluable process because it lets the millennial be involved in something bigger than themselves. But then it also allows you to use the role to then come and speak into it and then give them direction on, okay, here's how we could have done this better. You write about this generation, the millennials having to be more entrepreneurial, more flexible than past generations. I think this was a great discussion point for our parents that are listening in, that have millennials and the millennials in our audience,

because we have a lot of them, and I love them, by the way. We're not picking on you. We love you. We're trying to dispense wisdom. That's why I've got Paul on the phone. The guy knows what he's talking about. Paul, let's talk about that. Why do they have to be so flexible and why will they need to be entrepreneurial?

You know, as we look at the world that the millennials are entering into, you know, the idea that they're going to enter into a company and maybe be there for 20 years and work up the corporate ladder, you know, whatever that might have looked like in the past. You know, I think a lot of us are seeing that that reality is kind of being broken apart. You know, the American dream is kind of shifting, it's changing, it's evolving. You know, so these millennials are entering into a world that is in constant flux. You know, sometimes, you know, companies don't even want to hire somebody full-time, you know, with the rising health care costs. They're moving to more shared open office spaces and letting people work at home sometimes because it saves on the, you know, the bottom line.

And, you know, so millennials are entering into kind of like a freelance contractor, entrepreneurial work environment where maybe they don't have a career that they're working at for 10 years. they're not climbing that corporate ladder. They're more traveling from island to island. They're literally getting in that boat and traveling from island to island and picking up skills that they need at each place, and then they're traveling to the next island, to get their next skill set that they're going to need. They're really combining these different skill sets into this.

You know, Paul, you and I have talked a lot. You're on my radio show multiple times in Atlanta. We've become professional friends, meaning that we love to hang when we get a chance to. And you and I've had a lot of discussion personally just about where we're at in our lives. You know, I've just began the 40s. You're in your 30s, but you're passionate about this group. And so I want to end our conversation because I think this is good for anybody who interacts with a 20-something.

Whether you lead them or whether you're loving them as a parent or grandparent, this is really good. From your head and heart, Paul, what is the one thing that you would give as far as advice for what these 20s need to accomplish in this decade of the 20s? This is huge. Lay it on them. Yeah. Yeah, gosh, that's a great question. You know, there is so much ambiguity in your 20s.

There's so much unknowns. And the weight of those unknowns can feel very heavy. And 20-somethings are trying to find their place. They're almost on this search to find home again. And they're so transient. They're moving around so much. They're trying to find a place where they belong. You know, so for a 20-something, I would say it's having the courage to be willing to feel lost,

but to be lost on purpose with purpose. So you're not just floundering, you're not just wandering, but you are exploring. And that's really what an explorer does. An explorer purposely gets lost on purpose with purpose. So it's always bringing intentionality to those questions. to the unknownness, and it's starting to ask yourself questions of, okay, what do I really value? What do I really believe? What are my strengths? What's my personality? What do I come most alive? And really what I think a 20-something needs to come out their 20s with is a definition of what I call

their own personal signature sauce. You know, it's the mix of ingredients that makes you, you, that makes your flavors really come out and come alive and gives the world a flavor they desperately need. So I think of a 20-something can start identifying, this is my signature sauce. This is what I bring to the table. This is what I do that brings to the world of flavor that no one else can. Man, they're entering into a real sweet spot where they can start entering into their calling or entering into a career that they feel at home. Boy, that's so good.

You know, that's right up my alley, buddy, boy. That's right. Sweet spot is the intersection of your greatest strength and your greatest passion. And in there is that secret sauce. I love that analogy, Paul. You know, we are buddies. I just can't wrap up like I normally do because we're having this conversation. There's so much more we've got to dive into in the book, folks.

I want you to run and go get it. I want you to go to allgrownup.com. By the way, that's grown as in groan. Do you like that, Paul? Did you like that? I thought I'd give you a little sound effect there. You encapsulated the growing pains well in the groan. Yes, that's what I do.

But this all comes down to one thing, Paul, and we don't mind sharing our faith in this podcast. But if we believe there's a creator, then we must accept the fact that we were designed. And if we accept the fact that we were designed, that means we were designed to do something specific. And one of the great things that you're crusading against is this fake personality, this fake reality that people create based on pure pressure, cultural themes, cultural pressures. You just got to be you. Mm-hmm. Exactly. And that's what a 20-something is trying to figure out. They're trying to figure out who am I. You know, it's not based on what my parents think I am, not based on, you know, any expectations of what I thought life was supposed to look like. But down in my core, you know, you're right, I'm intrinsically made. I'm tailor-made. There is a signature print on me, so I need to unveil that.

Oh. When you have people unveiling that, you know how that is, that those are the world changers. those are the people making impact because they're secure in who they are and also securing who they're not. Boy, that's really good. And we find Paul over and over when people figured out, they step into the role that they were designed to fill and they just make things happen. It's not a big secret. It's not a mystery. And listen to me, folks. I have interviewed Paul probably five or six times now. That's how important I think that his work is. I don't tell you this because I like him, that I'm trying to sell his book. I tell you this because I think. If you are leading people, if you are parenting someone, you're going to be dealing with people in this zone, in this generation. And I think Paul has got his finger on the pulse. I think you've got to check it out. Paul, your good friend, appreciate your work.

Stay in touch. And congrats on the book release. Hey, thanks so much, Ken, an honor being here. He is Paul Angoni. And I'm telling you, folks, I know Paul. I've interviewed him several times. He is the millennial whisperer. He really knows what he's talking about.

he's a good follow, good resource, as you seek to win with the millennial generation. All right, folks, it's time for one question with Jeff Mask from InfusionSoft. Let's talk about mission. Yes. Every company worth their weight has got some type of mission statement, whether it be on a wall, maybe they talk about it in the hallways, maybe it just shows up in the boardroom, whatever the case. Mission, how do you marry mission with passion?

We talked about your passion. It's palpable. When you talk about it, we see it in your actual hallways, you know, at your headquarters. It's just real. The passion's everywhere. But how do you marry passion and mission? That's a great question. Commonly when you hear mission, too common, it's just words. It's just on the wall. You feel like you've got to put it out there so you say you've got it. So it looks good, right? I look good. I'm a legitimate business, so now I have a mission statement. But when you can combine your mission with passion, it's personal. Again, our mission at Infusionsoft is to help small businesses succeed. It's as personal, it's as literal as it gets. And every day we think, what are we doing to help small businesses succeed? We are sick and tired of seeing the failure rate of small business be as high as it is. We're here to reduce that. That is something that just drives us. And so when we combine that personal passion of helping small businesses succeed with what we do every day, if you don't have that as a business, this is a huge takeaway. The everyday distractions of running your business will overwhelm you and consume you and distract you. When that happens, you aren't your

best. You don't have that personal conviction. And so when the trials come, when the opposition comes, when the darkness in your mind comes, you'll go by which way because you're not grounded in that purpose, in that mission to really direct you to what you're doing in life in the first place. So let's take us through the process at InfusionSoft. What was the process like in developing that mission statement? It's simple, but I know it has tremendous depth to it. How much did you wrestle with it? What'd that look like? And then share, you know, what's the takeaway for those who really need to step back and go,

do we really have a mission? Forget the statement for crying out loud. Do we know what our mission is? And if we took an informal poll, would many people get close to the bullseye? Right. The process was arduous. It was long. It was tedious.

And many would say at the time it was a complete waste of time. When you're an entrepreneur, you are a doer. You get things done. So when you spend hours and hours of time pontificating and debating about a mission statement, you can feel like, what a waste. But we actually learned that it's the reverse. When you invest time in exactly what your purpose is, others will say your why. Simon Seneca is a great author that we follow, and we love his book of starting with why.

When you can get clear on what your why is, what your purpose is, then you can resist any type of temptation, any type of distraction, you stay very grounded to your true north. You know where you're going. And so the hours and hours of arguing and shouting of figuring out what was our purpose articulated just the right way so that when we hired on hundreds and hundreds of people, people would gravitate toward that and unite with that instead of having it be some distracting, weird, just something that didn't mean anything. We needed to connect to people's hearts and minds.

and those that cared about entrepreneurship and small business, we knew would be attracted by that. That investment of time has been worth its weight in gold because of how focus we remain to helping small businesses succeed. It's a fun, fun journey, and we're just getting started. I'm telling you, folks, Infusionsoft will help you grow yourself, your team, and your profits. That's what we believe in. Check them out. Infusionsoft.com slash entree. That's infusionsoft.com slash entree. All right, folks, it's time for Ask the Coach. That's right.

Our coach is John Falcons. You can see him, hear him, and I assume read him at ontraeleadership.com. John, good to have you in with us again. Thanks for having me. Yeah. So, hey, real quick, for those who may not know you, ask the coach. You are our coach. What does that mean in Entree Leadership world?

What that means is I help people take what Dave teaches about how he runs his business and help them succeed with that information in their business. That's right. I need to get you a mesh hat, you know, kind of a trucker hat that sits high up on your head that says coach. Yep. And maybe a polo shirt that's a little too tight with a whistle. And maybe those old school bike shorts. You know what I'm talking about?

Yeah. Magnum P.I. Lings. I think I've got all that already. Do you really? You should wear that the next time. I feel like it'll get you more in the coach zone. Okay. You're already in the coach zone.

Yeah. All right. So it would help get me in the character. I think it would. All right, let's talk about millennials. You heard the conversation with Paul Angoni, who's a millennial expert, but I want to take this the direction of where we're focusing this month at entreleadership.com and in all of our other avenues and when we're coaching these entrepreneurs, this idea of the millennials,

the pros, the cons. And let me start with what I know to be true. I know some men and women leaders who just have a sour taste in their mouth. They're just kind of anti-the-millennial, but you would assert there are some pros, cons. So talk about maybe what we should be looking for as leaders when we're recruiting or potentially leading millennials. Sure. You know, I understand exactly what you're saying, where some people have had a bad experience with somebody that maybe that they were trying to hire and maybe that person just acted entitled or something. Or maybe it's somebody that they actually got onto the team and then had a bad experience.

And I think all of us as humans are always looking for a reason. and looking for a label to say, you know what, this is why that person is the way they are. And sometimes that label becomes, well, they're a millennial. And you know, and you've heard Dave say this, right? If you've got a team of donkeys, the first question you've got to ask yourself is, who hired all these people? And if you hired them, then there's something about your hiring process that you really need to look at. But we've got almost 500 people here on Dave's team.

And I don't know, maybe you know, but it seems to me like there's a lot. a high percentage of them that are millennials. I'm going to guess, and I think this is an educated eyeball test, right? Yeah. That a hundred of them are millennials. Yeah. Eric, the producer, would you agree? He's behind the glass. He is a millennial, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. Maybe 101.

What do you think? Becky Powell or marketing, right? You think 100 people? We're getting kind of the eyeball test. Yeah. I think so. I think it's close. Close to 100. Yeah. Here's something that's a little interesting. Mark Zuckerberg, millennial. LeBron James, millennial. Roger Federer, Roy McElroy, Aaron Rogers, Taylor Swift, and our very own Rachel Cruz.

Millennials. All millennials. All highly accomplished. Highly accomplished. At the peak of their industry, shall we say? Influence for sure. Yeah, absolutely. And so I think what this tells us is there's some people that were born roughly between the 80s and the early 2000s that are high performers, and then there's some that aren't.

And so when we're in the hiring process, we've got to do a good job of figuring out what we're dealing with. Do we have, as Dave would say, a donkey or a thoroughbred, right? And as you know, the baseline principle in our hiring process is spend more time getting to know people. You've got to get to know people. You've got to put them at ease and begin to let them talk. And if they begin to talk, you're going to get to know them and you're going to know if they're the kind of people that are on that list that we just rattled off. or they're a different kind of person that you don't necessarily want on the team. But let me tell you a couple of things that we have found and the people in Entree leadership have found

when we're talking to them in either our mastermind groups or in e-coaching that they've noticed about millennials. Number one is millennials don't really tend to trust institutions like some of us used to, right? That's right. The brand means nothing. It means nothing, right? Things like Enron and other institutional failures have eroded trust in these big brands, and they are much more interested in the relationship, and they are much more interested in who you are as a person. Can I buy into you? And so when you go to hire them, you need to remember that. And, you know, don't spend your interview talking all about the accomplishments of their business, because they've been sold. They're seeing so many marketing messages every day. They're being sold on so much. They're pretty savvy. They're pretty

savvy about knowing when they're getting sold. So you need to shut up and let them talk during the interviews, which is just a good general rule, right? Rick Perry, our director of HR, the czar of culture here at Ramsey's Solutions says you got two ears and one mouth. And that ought to be the split on an interview, right? Twice as much listening as you are talking. So that's one thing. You've got to make sure that you're listening to them and you're being authentic because they're trying to gauge who you are as a person. And then the other thing that I would mention to you is is they have got to be very well connected with the why of what it is you're doing, right? They've got to understand the mission and be bought into the mission because in this era of, you know, freelance nation,

the reality is if they're motivated, if they're a go-getter, they can go get work wherever they want it, or they can create work wherever they want. They can sit in their mom's basement in their fuzzy slippers and program at 2 o'clock in the morning. So you've got to make sure that they're bought into the mission because trading time for paycheck, just doesn't cut it for these things. That's exactly right. Connection to a cause. This is a defining attribute of the millennials. And one of the things that you pointed out, I want to take us back there, this is very important. And John, this was great insight. Eagles are eagles when they come out of the egg. They're eagles. And we're going to be very careful not to buy into this

negative hype about millennials. That's right. Because you can't paint the entire generation with the brush of a couple knuckleheads. That's right. And, you know, to use Dave's donkey eagle thing, the fact of the matter is, when an eagle pokes its beak out of the egg for the first time, it's an eagle. It's an immature eagle that doesn't know how to fly yet,

but it's an eagle. That's right. And the importance of the communication and learning in the hiring process will let us determine whether or not we've got an eagle who knows how to fly or not. That's huge. It is.

And I don't cut anybody, I don't cut people any sloth. black on this issue. And here's who I always point to, Truitt Kathy. He finds all the Eagles in the Millennials. Yeah, right. Right? He built a billion-dollar chicken empire with millennials. If he can do it, you can do it too. Oh, that's good. That's why we call him Coach Falcons around here. John, thanks for hanging out with us. Good stuff as always. How can folks connect with you? Best way is just to go to Entreeleadership.com. Like you said, we're all over that thing. Well, John, thanks for doing that. That's why we call him Coach Falcons.

And if you'd like to submit your question, we'd love for you to do it via email, podcast at ontraeleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. All right, folks, I can't believe our time is done. Really sad. The good news is we're coming to you once a week now. You know this. Would you spread the word? Would you tell people about us?

We think we're helping folks. We know we're helping folks. We want you to help us be our evangelistic marketers. Tell people about us. We'd love to hear from you. Remember, email us podcast at ontreeliedleadership.com. connect with us on Twitter at Entree Leadership. I'm also out there at Ken Coleman. We'd love to hear from you. Who would you like us to talk to? Let me know. Drop us a line. Well, folks, that is going

to do it for this edition of the Entree Leadership podcast. I want to thank Paul Angoni for his time. We want to thank Jeff Mask, as always, from Infusion Soft. Coach John Felkins came by. It was great to see the coach. Always fun to have John with us. And Eric, the producer, on behalf of our entire Entree Leadership team. Thank you guys so very much for listening to us. We'll talk with you again. Very soon.