EntreLeadership - #116: Building the Best Place to Work

Episode Date: October 12, 2015

Create an extraordinary workplace with the help of psychologist Ron Friedman, who joins us this week to discuss how to inspire and engage your team as well as how to get people more passionate about their jobs. entreleadership.com/podcast Mission Statement Mapper Another great episode sponsored by our friends at Infusionsoft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now here is your host, Ken Coleman. From the Music City, welcome aboard, and thanks for the download. Here's what's coming to you this episode. Our feature interviews with Ron Friedman. Ron is a psychologist and author of the book The Best Place to Work, The Art and Science of Creating an Extraordinary Workplace.

Then we get on Main Street. Introducing you to Kerry Warburg. Carrie sits down and has a conversation with Ramsey Personality and the creator of Business Boutique. Christy Wright, this is going to really encourage you. Because at the end of the day, we believe that entrepreneurs see what could be and what should be, and as a result, you start something. At the end of the day, you're solving a problem.

And you're going to love Carrie's story. She's really going to encourage you. And then Coach John Falcons, from our All Access program and community, comes to you to answer some questions about culture. Hey, we love hearing from you on social media and you have responded. You also are emailing us at podcast at entreleadership.com. You're tweeting us at entree leadership and at Ken Coleman. Keep it up. We love to hear from you. I saw this book from Ron Friedman. And I get a bunch of books. I would say, I don't know, Eric the producer. I say we get 10, 12 books a month. And, you know, they come with the

PR materials and all these things. And I look at all of them. And sometimes I've heard of them and I get excited. Sometimes I haven't heard of them at all. And this book by Ron Friedman, the best place to work just jumped right off the, you know, okay, sure, you got me. Like, I didn't even look at the subtitle, the art and science of creating an extraordinary workplace. I just saw the best place to work, and it just grabbed me. So I looked into it and started reading about Ron, who's a accomplished psychologist. And then when you look at the art and science of creating an extraordinary workplace, that's the subtitle. And I thought, oh, this is good. I love books. I love books. I love, just true confession here.

I guess if it's a confession is true. But the point is, I saw this subtitle and I went, I like anything that's based on research. If you give me empirical data, well, I'm in. I want to know more about it. And so Ron decided to write this book. He's done tons of consult for Fortune 500 companies, political leaders, and all across the gamut.

But when I saw this book, I said, this is a conversation we've got to have. And I loved it. So I think you're going to love it. We really dive into it. And so here's the day. I want to tease something. When we come back from the conversation, I'm going to give you two big takeaways that just jumped out of the conversation to me. And for those of you that take notes, see if my takeaways are what your takeaways are. But let's get right to it. This is my conversation with Ron Friedman. Ron, it's great to have you on. I love the title of the book when it came across my desk, the best place to work. And that is just compelling. Because I think there's something in all of us that would love to say, you know, we'd love to be at the best place to work. We want our place to be the best place to work. There's something about that. And so I want to get behind the title and even behind the book.

How did this book come about, why this topic? Well, I'm a psychologist, and I spent many years studying human motivation in the lab and teaching a colleges and universities. And then I decided, you know what, I really want to go out into the real world and get a corporate job. So I went out and decided I was going to be a poll. And it was in the experience of being in the corporate world. I uncovered something really surprising to me, which is as a psychologist, I just kind of assumed everybody understood the conditions that get us motivated and passionate and creative.

But as it turns out, most companies don't know that. They don't really know what the factors are that lead people to be engaged at their jobs. And so I came to realize that there's a massive divide between what psychology and researchers know and how most organizations operate. So I wrote the best place to work as a means of taking all the research about what psychologists have uncovered about what gets people more passionate about their jobs and try to distill it down and make it actionable so that everyone can understand how they can be more passionate in the work they do and how they can inspire the people around

them. Now, the subtitle is the art and science of creating an extraordinary workplace. Let's dig a little deeper on the science part. You suggest in this book, that there is a science to actually building an extraordinary workplace. So let's look at some of the research a little deeper. What does it say about how people can be happy and fulfilled at work? Well, what people want from their workplace is ultimately the same thing they want in every other domain in life, and that's to have psychologically fulfilling experiences. So if you want people to thrive in their organization, you need to create experiences that

grow their competence, not just make them feel good about the work that they do, but allow them to grow on the job, help them feel connected and respected and valued by the people around them, and help them feel autonomous in the way that they do their work. And we have decades of research showing that when you provide people with those three experiences, feeling of competence, of relatedness to others, and autonomy, people are happier, healthier, and more productive. And the refreshing thing is that any company can offer that. That doesn't require millions of dollars.

You don't have to be Google. to help people feel confident and connected to the people around them. Any organization can do it, and there are some specific ways they can go about it, and that's what I talk about in the book. Okay, so you just mentioned two H-words, I think, that we need to kind of camp out with. Happier and healthier. I mean, that just makes a lot of sense. I don't think you have to be a MBA to understand that if we have happy people and healthy people,

well, then that's going to lead to some great productivity. Let's talk about the happy part for a moment. We know there's just been scads and scads of stuff written and proven about the power of friendships that create this life-giving mentality and really power us through all the different peaks and valleys of life. And so you write in this book about close friendships with colleagues actually does boost productivity. I think we all understand that. So here's what I want to ask. How do we foster a culture to where coworkers are becoming good friends? Great question.

And let me just say, you know, I don't know that a lot of organizations believe that close friendships lead to better productivity. I agree with you, actually. I think you're spot on. Yeah. And, you know, I think the reason is because there's this assumption that when people are close friends, they're going to be gossiping or they're going to be fooling around and there's going to be favoritism. And that's exactly the wrong way to think about what happens when we work with our friends. There's research showing that when we feel connected to the people around us, we're much better at paying attention to our work

because we're paying less attention to whether or not we're fitting in. We're able to actually focus on doing our jobs. Then, you know, we're also more honest in our dialogue. If you and I are working together, Ken, and I feel like we're friends, I can let you know when you're making a mistake. I can talk to you about that. Pull you aside, say, I think you're off on the wrong path here. But if we're working as acquaintances, then there's an awkwardness there, right? I'm less likely to be honest with you.

And I'm also more willing to ask for help when I need it. So therefore, I have greater resources to feel competent on my job because I have those relationships with the people around me. So the real question is, well, how do we do this? How do we get people feeling connected to one another? And I think there are some really simple and inexpensive things that any manager can apply. So here's one example. When you hire someone and you bring them onto your organization,

don't just introduce them by their CV or their resume, say, you know, Ken, he's worked at the following organizations, but talk about the person as an individual. Here's Ken, he's got three kids. He enjoys a good logger, and he loves college basketball. What that does is that gives me a topic to talk to you about outside of work matters, that we can connect with one another, find some similarities, and relate to one another in authentic way, rather than how most organizations invest in better relationships. What do they do? They pay someone to do trust falls, right? Or go on a scavenger hunt or they'll make you run through a bed of burning coals.

And while those experiences of shared awkwardness might lead to a temporary feeling of closeness, they rarely lead to authentic friendships. So one example is really introducing people in a more comprehensive way when they join an organization. Another example of things that any organization can do is rather than saying, okay, it's four o'clock on Wednesday, we're going to have everybody join us in the conference room and do yoga together, which some organizations are starting to do, that's great if you like yoga, right, or if you don't mind sweating in front of your coworkers.

But let's say you don't like that. So here's a better way is ask your employees what they like to do after work and then provide some seed money for them to do those activities together with the company sponsoring it. So for example, you might like volleyball, I might like softball, somebody else might like cooking. and if you're providing some seed money for people to do these things together, they're able to bond in a more natural way. I love that. Okay, let's talk about the other age, healthier.

How do we get healthier people? I think we know that. Obviously, we want to build into their lifestyle options and, you know, give them choices. But let's talk about the actual source of a lot of this healthy situation, and that is exercise. This is nothing new, but I'm curious to what you found from the research. about healthy employees, healthy team members, being more productive. Well, when we think about health, we think about looking good or feeling good, but as it turns out, some of the more recent research has found that some of the more profound impact

of having regular exercise is actually being smarter. And here's what I mean by that. So there's research showing that if you work out on a regular basis, you're better able to focus. You get more blood flowing to your brain. It activates the memory regions of the brain, which allows you. to soak in more information. You're learning in a quicker rate.

And then beyond that, you're also in a better mood, which is critical if you're looking to collaborate with people or connect with your customers. And so having employees who exercise can actually position them to be more productive at work. And there are also studies showing that organizations that provide their employees with the flexibility to exercise either early in the morning, come in a little late, or take an extended lunch hour, they have employees that have a greater sense of accomplishment are better at managing their time and just generally are more

satisfied with their job more loyal to their organization. So providing people with the flexibility to exercise is one option. Another idea is to take out a membership for a gym that's located close to the office. Take a group membership for your company. It doesn't have to be wildly expensive. There's a way to work that out where, you know, because you're using it so infrequently when the gym is essentially empty during the day, there are ways to get affordable. rates, also offering people the option to take walking meetings, rather than simply having

people confined to a stodgy conference room, go take a walking meeting. And what you often find is that because you're outdoors and you're exposed to different stimuli, you become more creative rather than just sitting in the office talking about the same old ideas. Now, one of the things that really caught my attention in this book is you wrote that our brains sabotage us, so us being leaders, managers, people who are making hiring decisions. And I think this is very important to unpack this because you can't have a great place to work if you don't have great people there. I mean, you can have all of these benefits and do all of these things

if you're hiring schmucks and jerks, you can't have a great place to work. Is that fair? That's exactly right. I think that's a direct quote from the book. How does our brain sabotage us when we're hiring or interviewing rather. Well, it turns out in-person interviews are a disastrous tool for figuring out whether someone's going to be a good fit for your company. And it's the tool that most of us rely on when we're making hiring decisions. And here's why it's a terrible tool. One is 81% of people lie during a live in-person interview.

So we're creating a condition where people are being dishonest because it's the only way for them to get a job, right? So if you asked me a question about a skill that I don't have, it's pretty clear that if I admit to you that I don't have that skill, I'm not getting the job. So really, the only option I have is to try and figure out a way where I can talk around it and give you a false impression. So you're getting dishonest answers for one thing. Beyond that, even if you were getting 100% honest answers,

there's a real question about whether you'd be accurately evaluating the person in front of you, and it's because of the way that our brains operate. So we have all of these unconscious biases when we look at other people and evaluate their skill set. So people who are good-looking tend to be evaluated as being more competent than they actually are. People who are taller tend to be, assume that they have more leadership skills than they actually do. And people who speak with a deeper voice are viewed as being more trustworthy. So none of these things are actually true, but it affects the way that we conduct the interview. So if I, for example, assume that you can are extroverted, I'm going to ask you a question like,

tell me about your experience leading groups. but if I assume you are introverted, I might ask a slightly different question. I might ask, are you comfortable leading groups? Now, both of those get at the same topic, but because I have framed my question differently to you, because of the assumptions that I have about who you are, that leads you to answer in a way that confirms my initial impression. So what I argue in the book is rather than simply bringing people in for in-person interviews, create a job audition that is relevant to the tasks you're going to be having.

having the person do. So for example, if I'm looking to hire a new business person, bring that person in and have them sell you on your product. So that way your first impression is of them doing their job rather than how well they're answering your questions. Another example, if you're looking to hire a web designer, have that person design a landing page for you. And so if we think about what happens when we conduct job interviews and we look at the data, we can create a far better approach to hiring people so that, as you say, we're creating a better workplace because ultimately it doesn't matter how great of an organization you have if you're hiring the wrong people. Wow. Good stuff. All right, so I want to ask you this before we let you go, because you think

about this, you have studied this, and I'm dying to know your opinion on how the workplace is going to shift a decade from now. I think we are going to get a lot better. at calibrating how we do our work to when our bodies operate best. So there's research I talk about in the book showing that we're better at doing focus work early in the morning, but we're better at doing creative tasks later in the afternoon and in the evenings. I think we're going to be much better at calibrating how we do our jobs to when our bodies allow us to be more effective in doing the tasks that we're doing.

You know, there is a book that came out about a decade ago, and I'm sure you're familiar with it, and so are your listeners, money-book. Before Moneyball, baseball teams assumed that it was home run hitters that led to victories. And so organizations would draft home run hitters. But then they looked at the data and they uncovered that it wasn't home run hitters that predicted more wins. It was players who got on base percentage. So the players who took more walks or players who hit more singles, those are the ones that predicted more wins. And so that completely shifted the way that baseball teams operate.

Now every organization has an analytics person, and I think this is the way that workplaces are going to go. I think we're going to get, because we have so much science that we are not using about how we can optimize our organizations, you're going to see more and more organizations with an analytics person, keeping their finger on the pulse of how engaged are my employees and what can I do to make improvements that actually lead to greater productivity and more passion from everyone around me. The book is The Best Place to Work, the Art and Science of Creating an Extraordinary Workplace. He is Dr. Ron Friedman. Ron, I got to tell you, I enjoyed it, man.

We could talk about this all day long. I think this is wonderful research. I think it's a must-read book, and we're really grateful that you're hanging out with us. My pleasure. Thank you, Ken. Hope you enjoyed that conversation. All right, I told you I was going to give you my two big takeaways. So here they are.

First big takeaway. By the way, if you should. share this takeaway. Reach out to me on Twitter. Let me know. I want to know if we're syncing up here. Two big takeaways. First one for me is that stronger personal relationships means stronger teams.

Now, that's an obvious statement. But the derivative is, you know, when you think about company culture and doing lots of things as a corporate community, that means a lot of people. And if you're a small business, you can do company events with the whole team. Everybody. But I think that while those are fine and dandy, I picked up from this conversation with Ron that it is communal connection versus corporate fun. What I mean by that is you can say the whole company can do a picnic, right? Let's say we've got a company 500 like hours and growing.

Well, you know, you can do a big picnic. You can have everybody together on the grounds and have lots of fun. But in the conversation, he's like, it's allowing your team to get together around things that they love. And so here's what I wrote down. And I don't know that it's ever been using a great phrase before, but I wrote down communal connection. I'm not talking about hippies, Eric, the producer. He's looking at me like, what?

But you get what I'm saying? This idea of there's a connection among communities within your team. And when you foster things like that and people really connect with people they're working with, whether it be on the same division or just across divisions of your company, if you will, that's where you get to stronger relationships. That's a huge takeaway. Stronger personal relationships means stronger teams. I'm totally fine with what he found in this data.

I think you should be friends with people you work with. My goodness, you better be. You're locked into something. We say all the time around here, we do work that matters. Well, if we're going to do something that matters, I better like being in the foxhole with the people next to me. Second takeaway. Love what he said about our brains trickiness on the interview process.

That was really huge. Anybody can lie to you. You can do a ton of interviews. They may lie the whole time. Now, generally speaking, with our Entry leadership process, we figured out. But this was the big one, Eric. You ready for this? We need to make people audition versus interview.

Audition versus interview. Interviews at one-on-one, they're putting their best foot forward. They've got their best suit, their best shirt, their best tie, and all the best answers. But, you know, actors have to audition. musicians have to audition you may not know this about Eric the producer but he's a world-class drummer came off the road with a very popular band to do this gig

I'm grateful but as I look across the glass you have to audition don't you if you're going to be a drummer which you were before they give you the gig there's no sit down and talk about it they want to see you play is that right he's shaking his head yes so there it is the two big takeaways audition versus interview I think it would really help us see how people really are going to respond

And then, of course, how do we develop those strong personal relationships? Communal connections versus just corporate fun stuff. Hey, I want to tell you about the book, the best place to work. The website is The Best Place to Work, Book.com. The Best Place to Workbook.com. We'd love for you to check it out. I really do recommend this book. This was a fun read for me.

Really enjoy preparing for this conversation because Ron does some empirical research, and it really can help us figure out the art and the science. creating that extraordinary workplace. All right, speaking of extraordinary workplaces, we are high on this place. We love the culture here. And we take culture very seriously. So I thought, well, let's take some of your questions on culture. And let's bring Coach John Falcons from our Entree Leadership All Access and webinar programs.

He's coaching men and women like you every day. So he takes your questions. Coach John Falcons back in the studio. Good to have you, pal. Good to be here. Thanks a ton. Yeah, well, we love when you're here because you're answering our listeners So here we go. First one up from Teresa. Other than salary and time off, what incentives do you

find are most appealing to millennials? You know, the thing about millennials is this. They are looking for a mission that they can believe in, Ken. So if as leaders, we're looking for some kind of leadership trick or mechanical thing we can do that's not authentic, it's going to backfire on us. So just offering them an extra day off or, you know, some little incentive like that doesn't do nearly as much for them as being an authentic leader, being a leader that's got a mission that they can get around and being relational. And that's what millennials are looking for, somebody that they can really believe in and work that really matters. All right. Next question from Kelly. This is interesting. I'm interested in how this is worded. Does culture always imply fun? No, it doesn't.

Absolutely not. Absolutely not. Let's start by framing up what culture is, okay? Because that's where a lot of people get off on this. Culture is the collective attitudes and behaviors of your team. So if you just kind of take the average attitude, the average set of behaviors of your team, that's the culture of your organization. And businesses have cultures, towns have cultures, even families have cultures.

It's the attitudes and behaviors of that group of people. You hear us talk a lot about things that are fun in regards to culture because we have a core value. I don't know if this is written down, Ken, you'll have to tell me, but we basically have a core value of fun. We want to have fun. Absolutely. It's not on the wall, but we have fun all the time. That's right. And so that's why you hear about it.

But things like our no gossip policy is also a part of our culture because we have the core value of treating other people like we want to be treating. So when you see the behaviors and the attitudes around gossip, you'll notice that our company culture is we don't tolerate it because of that core value. So, no, it doesn't directly relate to fun. It's just, in our world, we're just such fun people. We end up seeing it a lot. All right. Next question is from Andre. I am the new GM of a business.

I've spent the last three months teaching the staff about culture. When is it time to take them to the next level and hold them accountable? That's a tough question. I don't know if it's a time thing, is it? No, that's what I was just thinking, Ken. It's not a time issue. And Andre, gosh, I hate to say this, but teaching about culture is probably off the mark two. What we actually teach on is the core values.

And core values that can be kind of like biz speak, right? And I don't want it to be that. Core values are the stuff that's really important to us. And teaching on this is the stuff that's really important to us, customer service, you know, whatever it is, around here. not gossiping, treating people the way we want to be treated, having a self-employed mentality. We teach on the core values. We instill on the core values. We inspire around the core values.

The culture is what comes out of that, and it's not a time issue. You should hold people accountable on the core values the moment that you articulate them, the moment that people understand what they are. Now, don't get me wrong, you've got to do that over and over again, right, because people's understanding has a shelf life, and so you've got to remind them. But I'd start holding them accountable immediately. Yeah, big point you just made there. Remind them. Do we remember the Pat Lanchione clip that we played several podcasts ago from Summit where he said, you got to tell people over and over and over to the point where they're making fun of you? Because you say it all the time, but now they actually get it. Yep. And to your point, when you drill those core values

deep, then people get it, and now it becomes a part of the culture. So it's good stuff there. Love it, love it. John, always fun having you in here before we let you go. So our webinars are blowing up. And this is where folks can engage at entreleadership.com and be a part of a huge community. You're running those. You've got great guests at times. You're answering questions. Tell us more about these webinars.

Yeah, this is just where free to the public online training sessions of how Dave runs this business. We're just sharing with people what Dave's playbook is for winning in the marketplace. The best way to tie into those is to sign up for our newsletter. Go to Entreeleadership.com. sign up for our newsletter and then we post on the newsletter when we're going to have our next webinar. There it is. So entreleadership.com and just sign up for the newsletter. People are jumping in like crazy. I'm telling it you'll love it and you'll be in the no and you can dive in to the webinars and all the things that our great team is doing. Always fun to have you in here. I've got to tell you the bike shorts look great.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, they match the hat, you know, and the clipboard. He's really not wearing those old school coaching bike shorts. But it would be kind of funny if you did it one time and I like to create an awful image for people. listening to the podcast. It just woke a couple people up when I said that. They were kind of droning on and listening. Oh, whoa, what would that look like? As if the real image isn't bad enough.

You're going to help me out a little bit. Good to see you, buddy. Thanks, Ken. All right, we want to give you a tool that John and the team in Ontario leadership have developed to help you with your mission statement. We call it the mission statement mapper. Sometimes this can be very intimidating. We've been telling you about this,

but we have provided a tool here with this mission statement mapper that will make this easy to do, no matter how long the process is, if you follow the steps, the map, if you will, well, then you'll be able to do what you need to do as it relates to that all-important mission statement. Last week, Dave discussed how a mission statement is vital, and it's absolutely essential if you're going to build a winning culture. So if you want to edit and review your mission statement or just start from scratch, we have six steps on this mission statement mapper. And we want you to take advantage of this. This is free, no strings attached, straight up value. You text the word mission to 33-444.

Mission to 33-444. It's our gift to you. We want to make it really easy. Now, if you do not have the ability to text, you're an international listener, we give you the option to just download it off the internet, entreeleadership.com slash podcast and click on this episode. And then you will find the link to get your mission mapper. So please take advantage of this.

All right, it's time to hear again from our friend Jeff Mask with Infusion Soft. We use this organization. They are involved with this podcast for one reason. They want to add value to small businesses. So listen to my latest one question with Jeff Mask. My six-year-old daughter, Josie, his favorite movie is Frozen. And thus her favorite song is Let It Go. Now, dads everywhere listening to this and they're rolling their eyes because I just introduced the song back into their head.

But I did it for a reason. It's a serene illustration of one of the biggest challenges that business owners face, and that's letting it go. This speaks to automation. If you're going to get to the next level, at some point, you can't spend 16 plates. So you've got to automate. Why is it so hard for us to let it go? We're control freaks.

The blood, sweat, and tears we go through to get to where we are, we just can't even fathom taking several steps back. It's just too painful. And so if we've gotten any even inkling of success, us. To let go and let a system take care of something or another person do that, it's just too hard. We're too scared and we're in the grip of what the history taught us. We have a new future and there's technology and acknowledging that to let go to enable yourself to think a little bigger to work on your business instead of in the business. The conflict, however,

is there's a fear within entrepreneurs of letting go because it may feel like it just doesn't quite connect the way that I may want. Acknowledging why the reason is the first step. And then recognizing there are solutions to that is the second step. It's critical that we capture that in our minds so that we can take our business to the next level. As cliche as that sounds, it is true. And it's critical to go to the next level.

Hey, I'm getting excited because I get to actually hang out again with Jeff and the entire team in Infusionsoft. Eric, the producer and I are heading out to Arizona next week. It's going to be a lot of fun. We'll be out there for an event. and we're going to hang out with them, and we're going to develop some more value-added content. You just cannot believe what we are thinking and dreaming about, so that's going to be great fun. In the meantime, we want you to join the thousands that have downloaded their business playbook.

These are case studies and real plays, if you will. It's football season. I just can't think of anything but plays, right? It is a small business playbook, and thousands of you have downloaded it, as I said, infusionsoft.com slash entree. infusionsoft.com slash entre. One of the things that we're going to be very intentional about, I'm just letting you know, we want to focus on Main Street guests. Now, we're going to keep bringing you the high-level authors, CEOs, the captains of industry,

all those people that you've come to know and love. But we also want to make sure we've heard this from you, and we like the idea. We want to bring you men and women who we're calling Main Street. leaders, right? I mean, you may not have read a book by them, but I'm telling you, they're winning and they're winning big. And so, Carrie Warburg is certainly one of those people. Carrie's from North Dakota, and as I said at the top of the podcast, she found a problem, and she came up with a solution. We asked Christy Wright, who of course has launched the new event for women who want to do something they had always loved. It's called Business Boutique.

By the way, it's sold out in six weeks. If you want to know more about it, haven't heard about it, business boutique.com, or you just go to Dave Ramsey.com, click on events. But we ask Christy to sit down with Carrie and find out more of her story. I have listened to this, and this is going to encourage you. This is Christy Wright with Carrie Warburg. So, Carrie, your company, Earthkind, is fairly new. You know, since you got the EPA approval, but you already have over $40 million in retail revenue with distribution in 55,000 stores. You have such an impressive resume of experience and credentials, and you were chose, obviously, to serve on the National Women's Business Council. You're one of the top three small business people of the year.

So this is really impressive what you've done in such a short time, but I know, and you know, that it didn't start there, you know, and you talk about how it actually started in your living room. So take me back there. Let's just start with that. And tell me a little bit about your story and why you decided to do this. Yeah, take back to about almost 10 years. prior to when I started this business and really began to launch it and scale it. I was a farm wife, had problems with rodents getting into our property, and they caused a lot of damage. They're expensive, difficult to clean up, and really smelly. Plus they caused diseases. I didn't want that

around my kids, and I certainly didn't want to use poisons, which I thought even had more hazardous effects. And there really wasn't anything out there that was safe and effective and long-lasting. So I set out on this journey to figure that problem out. So how did you do it? How did you kind of get past that initial hurdle of you have the idea, but where do you go from there? Well, I had a life-threatening accident. I was selling produce at a farmer's market, and a 72-year-old lady on a touring bike with a sidecar hit me.

Oh, my gosh. And it knocked me on my back. I was on my back for about a year. And I actually died for three minutes in the surgery. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah, when something like that happens, you think long and hard, why am I here? What am I supposed to do? I knew there was a greater purpose and a greater mission in my life.

Even though I've started about seven businesses prior to this one, I never really did anything with them because I'd always hit that ceiling and it hurt and it would get more painful and I'd sell and I'd move on. But spending about a year on my back, I really realized the thing that would really propel me and I didn't know what it would be, how that would look, but I knew I needed to take a step. But really what I did is I found my deepest conviction. The conviction was all about the poisons on the planet. And I realized there was nothing out there that was safe and effective both. So I took that first step.

I found out how big the problem was. And I realized it was a lot bigger than just farms. I realized there's $140 million spent. every year on poisons that kill the rodents. Oh, wow. And I thought, you know, I got to do something about this. And I started to hear from other people, wow, this is really fantastic. And especially farmers, the guys in the beginning were the biggest champions of my success,

because they experienced that same problem. They really didn't want to kill them. They're nature lovers at heart. They just didn't want the rodents to get in and wreck their stuff and ruin their property. So I always say it was a woman's approach that made it successful because I asked the question, well, why lure them in and kill them? Why not just keep them from coming in in the first place? Right. Tell me a little bit about your struggles because I know that our listener's struggle. Many of them may be deep in the struggle right now. And so, you know, how did you overcome all of those

challenges and get through that? Well, having a deep conviction certainly helped because when I started this business, we were living in poverty. It appeared from the outside and to me that I had far more barriers than I had help. So I had to get really creative in starting this and I just, I pray about it, I'd think about it, I'd read books, I'd ask other people, I started to surround myself with other entrepreneurs and they challenged me to think a little bit differently. For instance, you know, bringing this product to market. That's one thing making an invention. I had to get a patent, which is something I hadn't done before, and it's very difficult to do. And then I found out after I had started selling this product that it needed to be EPA registered, which is a whole

process in itself. I was told that it would cost about $2 million to do this, but I couldn't legally sell it without that registration. And I was advised by everybody, including the state, and consultants. You don't want to do this because there's probably only a 5% chance that you're going to get it registered. And the market probably isn't big enough because it's all about poisons. And people just want to kill a pest. And so I started thinking about my kids and I thought, I made up my mind. I said, I have to do this. If it's the last thing I do in life, I have to do this. But I can tell you, if you just, you take that first step, destiny will take you where you're supposed to go. You talk about really getting told no a lot.

How did you get past that? How did you get past specifically being directly told no again and again by people and overcome that? Because I know many of our listeners probably struggle with hearing that word no and feeling discouraged by that. No turned out to be a really powerful fuel for me. And to be honest, in the beginning, I listened to that and I internalized that. And I'd go home and I'd cry. And I went to so many trade shows, I can't even tell you how many mistakes I've made over the years. And until I got smart about it, and until I found building a business and being

a success as an entrepreneur is less about a manual and what other people say and more about the mindset that you take on for yourself. And I learned to develop a mindset for success and a mindset of freedom. And that really helped because to make a business work, you need people, right? That's what what really makes it successful. So you have to be a good leader. And most of those setbacks, the roadblocks, I've learned to think of them more as a setup for a comeback. So every time I hear a no, I ask myself the question, what are you missing? And I'll do research and I put all the pieces together and then I can make an educated decision of, you know, they may be correct. I should slow down a little bit or, no, this really doesn't apply.

because face it, you know, you need to make something people want. Right. And it's so great to hear you talk about where you are now and just even how your mindset has changed and grown. And it's really unique, you know, what you offer. And then your vision obviously has grown over time. Tell me a little bit about how your goals have changed as you've grown. Because I know when you first started out, it started so simple. It was in your living room and you wanted to solve this problem of the rodents on the farm and then not having toxins and poisons, but now your goals are much bigger than that. And you're talking about actual, you know, social and economic change through your business. So kind of walk me through

what that evolution has been like for you of your goals and your vision changing as your business has become more successful. It certainly has to do with the money and the education because in the beginning, you know, I was limited by the cash that I had. And what my idea was so far out there. It wasn't anything I could really go to an investor or I would even know how to do. Here I was a young company. This was back in 2012. I already had a market-proven product, but things were changing. It was really speeding up. So now my product was out there. I had competitors nipping at my heels. We had copycat products coming in. And most entrepreneurs, when they hit that wall, that's where you either decide to go or you decide to sell out.

and I said this dream is too big, I can't sell out. Now that there is some financial success to the business, I'm able to do some things that are really exciting. We'll do campaigns now. Play for Pets is when we did earlier this spring, where our customers can put in the name of their favorite shelter for pets, and we'll donate $100 to the shelter plus give them a year supply of our product. And it helps us to build our community with our customers.

And they're passionate about many of the same things that we are. So when you start thinking like that, it's kind of the same as a beginning. So an entrepreneur, right, one day you think you can save the world. And the next day you're going, oh, my gosh, I am such a failure. This isn't going to work. So it's a constant tug of war between aspirational and practical. Sure. In fact, I get more aspirational, the larger the business grows.

I love that. As we wrap up, just because I know you have a heart for women and you are such an incredibly successful woman in business and your story is just so inspiring to me and to our listeners. Let's just wrap up and I would love for you to speak to some of the women, small business leaders out there and just give them a few words of encouragement as we wrap up today. Let me share five things. Know your customer. That's probably been the biggest key to our success. Number two, don't be afraid to shake up the marketplace. it is possible to build a better mouse trap.

The third one, bring your passion and patient. It takes time to change customers' buying habits. Fourth one, look for opportunities, supplier diversity programs, listening to podcasts. Five, surround yourself with people smarter than you. You don't have to be the only rock star in the room. That's perfect. Thank you so much. And, Carrie, I just thank you for using your talents and gifts to change the

world. And I think that that is a great note to end on for all of our listeners, that the world will be a better place as we all step into our calling and our deepest convictions and use our stories to really leverage the talents and gifts we've been given to help others and serve the marketplace. So I thank you so much for your time and sharing your heart and your story with us. We've all gained so much wisdom. And I know I have. I've got pages and pages of notes here. And I really just appreciate your time, Carrie. Great. It was so awesome to meet you. Hey, if you want to learn more about Carrie's business, you can go to earthkind.com.

I want to give you a takeaway from this conversation. And this is to encourage those of you who may have recently started something or you're thinking about starting something or maybe you have a friend or family member who's in those initial stages. But you know what I loved about Carrie's story? She had an on your back moment, right? Life just knocks us on our backs. In her situation, she was literally dead for three minutes. When you come back from a situation like that, boy, oh boy, it is very easy to focus on what matters most to you.

Now, I would also tell you, you don't have to have a life knock you on your back situation happen for you to realize, why am I here? I mean, that was the question that Carrie asked. Why am I here? What I love was the word conviction. Did you hear her say that? She was like, it was about conviction. Not just why am I here, but what am I convicted about? Conviction is such a strong. strong, passionate word. And I think if you can find out, what are you convicted about? What moves you? What fires your soul? You answer that question alongside of, why am I here? They really do go together. Well, then you're going to be able to have what it takes. It's no accident that after having started a lot of things that she quite frankly never succeeded at, right? She hit a ceiling. But once she figured out, what am I convicted about?

Boom. Unbelievable. And now, of course, her story, great story. You heard 55,000 stores. You heard 40 million, these big numbers. Again, conviction is what drives that. So, hey, if you're in that situation and you feel like I've got that conviction,

but I just need to move on it, then just step out. Step out and make it happen. Hey, I'll tell you something else if you're feeling like, I need to get convicted. Well, we can do that for you. May 22 through 25, our second ever summit. Summit 2016 in Dallas, Texas, Entreeleadership.com slash summit.

Unbelievable lineup. You can check it all out at that website, Entreleadership.com slash summit. But Dave has asked Jim Collins, Seth Godin, Dr. Henry Cloud, Pat Lynchione, and, you know, our Ramsey personalities, Chris Hogan and Christy Wright. and we've got a super, super huge name.

It's going to make this event a lot of fun. We can't talk about it because of the contract. I know. It's strange. But for those of you who have heated my advice, you went to the website, you can see who big-time mystery speaker is. It's going to be a lot of fun, May 22 through 25.

This event's going to sell out, but there are still our tickets now. So I'm telling you now, in the fall, better jump on this if you want to join us in the spring. Hey, I want to thank Dr. Ron Friedman, John Felkins, Christy Wright, and Carrie Warberg for making this podcast so chalk full of value. As always, on behalf of Eric the producer

and our entire Andrele leadership team, we want to thank you, and we will talk with you again very soon.