EntreLeadership - #134: Inside the Ramsey Family Playbook

Episode Date: February 15, 2016

We’re sitting down with three future owners of Ramsey Solutions—Rachel Cruze, Winston Cruze and Daniel Ramsey—to discuss the dynamics of family business and the efforts it takes to slowly transition the company to the next generation. They’re discussing what works and what doesn’t work, how they’re being trained, and how communication is key. If you run a family business, don’t miss this podcast! Family Business Tool InfusionSoft Leads Workbook Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now here is your host, Ken Coleman. We are broadcasting from the Music City, and as always, so grateful for the download. Special theme in February is family business. We know so many of you out there are involved in family businesses, and business itself is challenging enough, but when it's in the family, it brings a whole new set of challenges,

So we're really lasering in on family business this month of February. And this is a special conversation. Really excited about this today because we sit down in the studio with three future owners of Ramsey Solutions. Dave's only son, the youngest of the Ramsey children, is Daniel Ramsey, been with the team 18 months. Daughter Rachel Cruz, the co-author of the number one bestselling book, Smart Money, Smart Kids, and her husband, Dave's son-in-law, Winston Cruz. Now this is fun because you're going to hear firsthand from the next generation. All the different facets of their involvement in the business, their future in the business,

and how that is being set up, how they are being trained, how it works, the dynamics, everything involved. It's really fascinating stuff. This is really going to help you. So that is coming up. And also, we are giving away a new tool. We love the free tools to help you win in business. And so since we're talking family business, the entree leadership team came up with a great tool, six major mistakes that will destroy your family business.

So we have tips with each mistakes. We're going to literally teach you and equip you so that you can make sure you don't make those mistakes and that you win big. So that's coming to you immediately after the conversation. So let's get to it. Sat down in Dave's studio with his son Daniel Ramsey, his daughter, Rachel Cruz, and his son-in-law, Winston Cruz. Here it is. Okay, this is great fun. So we're in Dave Studio, painting a picture for you listeners here,

and we've got Daniel to my left, the youngest of the Ramsey kiddos. Then to his left is his older sister, but the middle child, Rachel Cruz, and then to her left, her husband, Winston Cruz, all three involved in the business. So let's start off here. I just did a quick setup here. Daniel, how old are you? And how long have you been with the company now? Sure.

So I'm 24. I started full-time with the company about 18 months ago. I guess technically I've worked for the company. I was going to say. I mean, I was working shipping when I was eight years old. Is that right? Eight years old was the first time you came in. Back with Tom back there.

Slinging boxes around? Yeah. Did you get paid? Yeah, no, I got paid. I mean, it would just be summer randomly, like, maybe like half days or something. I can't remember. And then gradually, when I got to, like, high school, it was more of, like, on the phone, doing sales, like real position full time.

And then, you know, did random, like, painting and different things like that. All right, and so 18 months ago, you joined the team here, and you're in the same position that you were when you came in essentially. Tell us what you're doing now. Yeah, so I work in our media department and I sell advertising across all of our different platforms, as well as sponsorships for all our events. All right, and you're loving this part of the deal. I mean, this is not easy, by the way. Dave talks about this at live events. So we'll come back to that in a minute.

Sure. But I want you to talk about, you know, the uniqueness of that current role and then how it fits in. But let's move to Rachel, Rachel, of course, the middle child. and your age, I don't normally ask women their age, but your colleague, this is a part of the deal, though. A little bold, Ken. No, people want to know. I'm 27. So you're 27, Daniel, 24.

And same deal. I know you've been here forever, but when did you officially start on the team? Sure. It's been about five years. Wow. Yeah. And in what role? I am currently a Ramsey personality, which means we travel and speak and write and

produce content for different platforms all over the company. And so Chris Hogan that you all hear and Christy Wright, I do exactly what they do. Yeah. And she wouldn't say this. I'll say it. Co-authored a number one New York Times bestselling book, Smart Money, Smart Kids with Dave. And then the new book that she's already got in the can. They're working on selling this thing now. But it's, if you turned it in, the manuscript is in? The end of this week is my final edits. Oh, my gosh. All right. And that's coming out September? In October. October this year. So you'll hear. more about it from us by that time, but October, and can you tell folks the title? Are we allowed to release that yet? I have not been given permission, but I want to. I won't. Give us, no,

give us the summary, what the book's about. Sure. Well, the idea is, it's like part of the title. I'm going to just say it. So you folks can guess if it's the title or not. But it's based around seven money habits to live the life that you want. And that's basically what the book is, is based on these seven money habits to implement in your life so that you can do the things you value in life and so that debt doesn't steal your income constantly and that you gain control of your money. All right. And finally, Daniel started eight slinging boxes around and shipping.

What was your first Ramsey Solutions work experience? Can you remember? Yeah, shipping probably. Actually, Denise, my older sister and I, I remember our very, our old old house when dad first wrote financial piece, we would stuff it in little envelope. So we were kind of the shipping department before there was a shipping department. Yeah. Yeah.

But it was in the living room at that point. That's right. That's awesome. And by the way, I should say that Denise, the oldest of the Ramsey children, she runs the family foundation. And so that's where she's involved. That's why she's not a part of this conversation. And then moving all the way over to the left, Winston Cruz, who is, of course, Rachel's husband, the son-in-law. We'll put a sound effect in there. As my grandmother say, the outlaw.

I love that. And you have a unique role here. So same thing. How long you've been with Ramsey Solutions and then take us into your role? Yeah, I was going to say, we've been here six years, and I served the company in three different fashions, and it's all has to do with real estate. The first thing that I do is manage Dave's personal investment properties. And then secondly, in-house, I do all of the space planning and tenant rep for the company, Ramsey Solutions as a whole,

because of the amount of growth that they're experiencing. Very difficult to keep up with. And then the third thing is that I'm the project manager on the new development for the new campus that we're trying to get to, you know, within the next couple of years. All right. And when you first got involved, was it after marriage, before marriage? We did an internship while we were engaged.

I love it. It's basically part of our premarital counseling. Yeah. That's like a whole other level of, let's see if this kid can hack it in the family. So we did 90 days here over a summer and I just rotated at different departments every two weeks, just learning the ropes of the company. Started out within the commercial ELP division, which is still exists, but is not a huge need. And cut my teeth on real estate there.

Went out and got my license. Stumbled into a few deals with Dave on his personal investment side. And that's basically afforded itself a full-time position later. Well, this is going to be fun because you can't talk about family business without talking about succession. And folks, I want to make sure you understand that when we talk about this on this podcast, this is such an open, consistent conversation that we have all the time within the walls of this organization in front of all 530 plus team members all the time. And so one of our seven strategic pillars that, again, we look at all the time is Ramsey Children will transition into more formal ownership and leadership roles. So let's dive in here, gang. All right.

So let's talk about expectations. I mean, this is a big deal. When you talk about a family business, the name, the family name is on the door. You know, it's everywhere. It's Ramsey Solutions. You know, you've got the rest of us out here who don't have the Ramsey name and you have you guys. Let's talk about expectations. And I'm talking specifically from Dave and then amongst the family, almost as a peer group.

It's a really unique situation. What are those expectations? Sure. Most of them internally within us, the things that came to my mind when you asked, was the expectation that you're competent. You know, the Ramsey children will go into more leadership, ownership roles, but that's only if we're competent. If we don't have the capacity, the knowledge, if we don't have the maturity to handle it,

it will not be handed over to us. So we do have to prove ourselves in that sense. And then also the expectation that you love what you do. And being in a family business, that's what's so important. If you hate what you do every day, it's miserable not only to come to work, but to come to work and you're with your family. And it's like, oh, it puts like a double negative on it. And so I would say overall, those are two huge expectations internally within the family is that you're competent and that you're passionate with what you do.

Let's talk about Daniel. Here you are. You've been here the least amount of time, 18 months. You come out of college. You know, you're the son, you know, Daniel Ramsey, DR, Dave Ramsey. Okay, there's that. I mean, let's just be honest. You come in and they put you in a sales role. And there you are. You know, you're calling, you know, advertisers all over the place. They may not know your last name initially. know, what are expectations like for you? What do you sense? What do you feel? You know, it's emotional, definitely. I mean, especially in a sales role where you are, I love sales, first of all. It's so fun. I mean, I get to have that chase, that excitement of the ups and downs, the excitement of putting so much work into a deal, and then for it to finally go through, or for it not to go through, even worse. And so, yeah, there's definitely that expectation of coming in, and, you know, my job, my paycheck is completely reflective of my performance. I have that expectation of uphold of, hey, I have to come in and own this.

And I don't think it's something that it's, if I don't succeed, I'm going to be thrown out or anything like that. I definitely have the comfort level and the love of my family and my dad, definitely, regardless of how I perform. But it's that competitive nature that we have. And to come in and to have those big wins feels really, really good. good. Let's talk about the eyeball factor. You know, and what I mean by this is Dave's been very generous with his platform and puts me out as host of live events, has allowed me to host his video channel, and I feel eyeball pressure, you know, when Dave, who is so clear about character and integrity and how we serve the audience that we're blessed to serve, but I do always go, hey, you know,

you've got to be careful about how you handle yourself, you know, because you have been given a platform. Now, that's just, that's just me, but I don't have the last name. So within this company, and you walk around, talk about that pressure of the eyeball, if that makes sense. Yeah, you know, that is something I definitely try to put off to the side. I think it's something that happens just naturally, because I think our parents raised us in such a way where it's not something we have to work on that hard. I mean, obviously, we all have character flaws, and we all are trying to strive to be better people and grow closer to God. But I think it's really comes from the way we were raised as far as we're not going out and doing things that could potentially

erupt our lives. And so, yeah, just within the company, though. How you treat people. Yeah, within the company, obviously, we want to be friends with the people we work with. There's nothing worse, and you see it in the movies all the time of the sun that works there and gets all the special attention and he's handed everything and it's just a jerk to everyone around them. And it's funny because I think there's expectations from people on the team of different

different things. Some people expect that and almost are like surprised when you're not a jerk. And then other people, you know, I run in this, you know, not very often at all, but the people on the other hand are the other end of the spectrum that kind of expect you to be awesome and you may not live up to that. Yeah. Yeah, you can't be sunshine all the time. Exactly. Exactly. Let's talk about the unique dynamic that all three of you are in now in the way that our company runs things. We have an operating board. So it's a structure of leadership. Winston described that how that works, first of all. And then I'd love for you to segue into what it's like to sit in there.

You know, Dave has slowly moved each of you in there, and there's a period where you don't talk, you know, and you earn the right to talk. That has to be really unique, especially when you have experienced leaders that you're joining at the table. So I want you to talk about that, but first just give a brief description of how our operating board kind of works and why it exists that way.

There's an operating board of six individuals plus Dave, and it's an operating board so they all have a function they all are leaders within the company and at the very beginning we were invited to come in and we didn't even sit at the table

we actually sat in the corner Rachel and I and Denise Daniel still in college We weren't allowed at the table we weren't allowed at the table much less to say anything so it's been a very slow and intentional transition

to the exposure that we had to the issues that they would talk about even the books and so at this point we're now at the table and we can contribute conversationally. But it's an intimidating process for someone so young. And that's why there was so much intention and so much clarity around here's why you're

here and here's what we want to see happen with you through this process. Let me ask you this, having moved from the kitty chair to the big table and you're sitting there and it is intimidating. That's what I wanted to hear is. What is that feeling like? To our audience, it's trying to figure out, okay, how do we do this with the kids in our business and all this? What's the value in that process, the intention? I'd love for all three of you to just pop in here.

What has been the value from your point of view of Dave slowly bringing you into that role where you can speak up? Well, I will say we have a unique position, too, in that we sit at the operating board table, but we all go back to our own, you know, functions that day. We aren't leading a whole group of people. So what we say is really completely untied from the consequence of actually performing what we're actually talking about. So I would say there's a lot of benefit and just having an unbiased look into what the issue is at hand. But the benefits of sitting around the table are, they're just infinite.

you've got personnel, you've got, you know, you have personnel issues that you work through, that you get to see them walk through difficult situations with people and how they see the hearts of people. Then you have business situations where you see the books and you see shots that have to be called, you know, to either continue to do this or not continue to do that and watch them wrestle through arguments on that way. So there are an infinite amount of benefits. to glean from watching them walk through these situations. We have the benefit of going back to our day job. We can watch it, go through the emotions of it.

But at the end of the day, Rachel's still going to go back to her personality deal, and I'm going to go back to real estate. And you go back to making calls. That's a great point. So you can be somewhat objective, yet your skin's in the game. As future owners, your skin is in the argument, yet you have some objectivity. That's right. You're definitely expected to care.

And I think just sitting around for me personally, just people who have been in business and done things so well for so long. You know, these people, you know, are, I don't want to date the operating board, but they're 40-50s. But for me, just to sit there and listen to them and watch them make decisions, watch the different personalities of the board come together, be unified in decisions and just really learning from them overall. And I think I take that for granted sometimes, but just to be able to sit and watch it all happen. and I'll throw in my two cents sometimes, and they call it like Rachel moments, because I'm like, listen, this doesn't seem right. And especially with dad, I'll speak up and have my opinions with him.

But it's good, though. Like, I think just the whole function and the chemistry of it has been great. And Daniel, do you have anything to say that? Are you speaking yet? No. So I've actually, for the first year, I was not a part of the operating board. Right. I was just a normal team member through and through.

then I was invited to become one after my one-year anniversary in June, and so I will become a full-time board member coming in June, June. So right now I just sit there, listen, take notes, kind of every now and then I'll ask a question, but really, no, I just listen. Well, so you're allowed to ask a question? Yeah, for clarification. Can you use that in a sentence? That's what I used to do.

But no leading questions. That's great, though. I think this is wonderful. That's why I asked that follow-up. Yeah, and our roles obviously don't have the heaviness of an actual board member who is leading a whole area, right? I mean, we're not doing that. And our compensation is not how a board member is. So we are different in that sense.

When does that change? You can even ask Big Dave. I don't know. I don't know. And the reason I ask the question, we're talking about family business right now. I'm glad you stipulated that because you are future owners. So I assume that maybe kicks in at some point. But I thought I'd ask, and that's fine that you don't know.

Let's talk about, Rachel, you just kind of touched on it. And Daniel hasn't gotten there yet. And, you know, one of the blessings is I've become friends with all these folks. I don't think Winston's going to handle it the way you would handle it. Now, you and I, Rachel, we would handle it very similar from stories I've heard. There's a legendary story, though. And this now we're moving into the next part of the conversation, how you wear different hats. So here you are, Dave's middle daughter.

and you disagree with him or you disagree with the direction or where the board may be going on the conversation and you speak up. And I want you to tell us the Suzanne Sim story because they'll lead us into how it works when you report to somebody and you're a future owner, which is a really unique dynamic. Before we get there, though,

tell us that story because that's a legendary story that Dave shares. Yes, well, we were sitting, I think it was actually in an operating board meeting and Dave spoke up and said something. thing, you know, and I completely disagreed with it. I thought it was completely wrong. And so I said that. I was like, I don't think you're right. I think that that decision is completely wrong. If you look at this and this and this, I feel like that's the direction everyone else is wanting to go.

Like I, you know, and so he was like, absolutely not. What are you talking about? You know, so he was going on it. But Dave loves to argue and he'll tell you this. Some people are intimidated by it, but he loves like. No, it's a sport. It is. And he really, he loves it. So if you can get in there with him, he, he, so he's going back with me. I'm going back on, but it kind of starts getting a little tension. And finally, after probably about five minutes, I think he was frustrated and I was frustrated and he basically just stopped and he was like, stop talking. Like, this is done. This decision's already been made and this is what we're doing. And so apparently I rolled my eyes at him. You say that as though maybe the evidence isn't conclusive. Yes, I don't know. But all I know is I got an email about

30 minutes later from Suzanne Sims, who's my leader reports to her. So she's, And she's one of the operating board. She was in the room. She was, correct. And Saw said, well, yeah, so she brought me into her office. And she said, Rachel, listen, you just rolled your eyes at the CEO of our company. And you can't do that. You've lost respect for him.

You lose respect from the other operating board members. Like, that's not an act you can do. And I was embarrassed. I mean, I really had no idea. I think I was just completely frustrated in the moment. So, and she said, she said, you need to go down to his office and apologize to him. And so I went down and I said, hey. I think I rolled my eyes at you.

I'm sorry. I did that. But it was one of those humbling moments of realizing, oh, wow, my, my actions, I have to be careful because in that moment I was acting as his daughter. And that's what we talk about the different hats. You know, I have a daughter hat. I have a future owner hat, as I said in the operating board. I have a personality hat I wear.

And depending on what situation you're in, that's what determines what hat you wear. And so, yeah, for me, I was wearing the daughter hat, not the... Yeah. So that comes alive with both Daniel and Rachel. Winston, even as your father-in-law, you guys call him Dave around here. You know, that's normal for Winston to call your father-in-law by his first name. But, yeah, I remember the first time I got here on the team, you know, almost two years ago, I heard you guys call him Dave.

It just was weird to me, you know what I mean? But that matters. Absolutely, absolutely. And that's something really, I guess, Rachel, you started that, didn't you? Yeah, dad and I talked about it when we listen to me. I say, dad. It's hard in this context. It's okay.

In this context, that's hard. That conversation was between your father and you. So that would have been dad. That's right. You were wearing your daughter. Yeah. That's right. Great example.

For me, I mean, really, I don't interact with my dad, Dave, on, you know, at work very, very rarely. I'm four levels below him. I have three leaders in between me and him. So with that said, calling him Dave at work really is a game changer for my team more than anything. If I'm in a meeting and we're talking about approving an advertiser for endorsement, for example, and I say, well, my dad thinks this. It changes the entire tone of the meeting, you know. I just threw that card on the table, and that's not fair for anyone. That just puts everyone in an uncomfortable position.

So, you know, when I call him Dave, it puts me on an equal playing field with my team. And that's what ultimately we all want. I mean, we want to be treated normal. Right. We don't want extra privileges. We don't want whatever that may be. We want to be treated normal. And so, you know, if I'm sitting around with my team and I'm telling a story about what happened this weekend, I'll say, me and my dad, we were at the

lake we were skiing, blah, blah, blah. And so it's become a natural thing where it's just, when I'm talking about work, at work, it's Dave. When I'm at work talking about my father, it's dad. A nuanced follow-up there. That's the internal conversation. Sure. But for you, you're on the phone with advertisers. And if things aren't going great, you can't pull out the dad card on the phone. That would be tragic as well. No, that is just, yeah, that's wrong and weird. Yeah. No, so it's Dave. And if it's like a vendor or something, any person outside our company, that would just be very weird to say, you know, my dad wants a better rate on this or my dad said this or that. You know, it's, you know, Dave did not improve this for endorsement. Or, hey, you know, I was in the studio with Dave and he's so excited about the spot he just cut for you. Yeah. Something like that. I want each of you to weigh in on this. I'll just throw it out there and somebody jump in. Let's talk about how you report to leaders. You know, Rachel, you mentioned Suzanne Sims, who's ultimately the executive vice president over the division, if you will, that you operate in.

Daniel, you said you had four levels, I think, between you and Dave. You know, you're over there in radio sales. So you guys, I want you to each talk about what it's like, again, being a future owner, son, you know, daughter of the man whose names on the building. Yet you have direct reports, people who are directly above you. and we don't go outside of the chain of command here. I report to Josh Smith, who reports to Brian Mayfield, who reports to Suzanne Sims, who reports to Dave. And so I've learned that it's wrong of me to take something I hear at the board level

and share it with any of those people or anyone on my team because that information was supposed to go to Suzanne, who's supposed to filter it down naturally. And then on the other end of the spectrum, if I have an issue, if I'm dealing with a problem with someone on my team or one of my leaders even, it would be really wrong of me to go to, even as my dad, it'd be really wrong to go to the CEO of the company and complain about such and such. But it'd be, you know, because he's my dad, it's awkward.

I can't do that. I have to naturally talk to whoever it is I have an issue with and deal with it with them. And then if that can't be resolved, go a step up and, you know, have an additional leader sit in and help facilitate those conversations. Yeah, I report to Jeremy Breeland, who, He's over all the personalities, who reports to Suzanne, who reports to Dave. So I think for personally having layers between me and Dave is very important because we are very much cut out of the same cloth. And so if I had issues and stuff and I always had to go to him, I think our relationship would struggle.

I think we would be fine. But I think it's just healthy for us to have those layers, especially since we work so closely on so many things, so many projects. because it's good to have other eyes and ears kind of in between us. Well, I guess I'll just blow up the whole formula. I used to be the layered structure. And then when I went with my new role in real estate, I'd directly report to Dave now. Right. So I guess there is more potential, more space for that conflict to happen since we are in weekly meetings,

not just talking about business, but personal investment properties as well. By the way, it's your rent coming in the door that I'm trying to chase down. But I think there's something. Are you wanting me to talk about like? Yeah, I think your situation is really unique. And we want our listeners to try to get what's happening here. And I'll pause the question so that folks, I hope you're hearing a disciplined boundary system here. I mean, that's what this is.

And I want you all to weigh in on why you all think from your unique perspective. That is so important to not let a family business just turn into cash. chaos because we hear of that so very much. But Winston, I love your situation in that you are, you know, things change and you're directly reporting to Dave. Your son-in-law, I mean, that's unique stuff as well. So, yeah, I mean, talk about that unique system there. And I think all of this plays into it for me. These are extremely applicable just in my day to day because everything from the expectations to the chemistry to the different hats, I've got a, I mean, I've got a closet full of hats. I've got, my wife is sitting next to me right now. You know, on the family business podcast. So it can be very difficult sometimes. I'm not going to sugarcoat it.

It can be really hard. And you step away and you think, you know what? At the end of the day, I have a lot of respect and a lot of love for my boss, who happens to be my father-in-law as well. And if you don't respect your employer, whether it's family or not, you probably shouldn't work there anyway. That's right. So if you can have respectful disagreement, you can have conflict all day long if you respect the person you're having conflict with.

And I think keeping that in our relationship in the forefront helps us get through any type of problem we could have in business. Let me interrupt real fast because I'd like each of you to weigh in on this, but Winston, I want you to answer this first. We're not trying to kiss up to Dave here, but as hard as it is for you, it's got to be tough on him. to keep an organization going with his vision after he's gone. I mean, very few leaders that have reached his level of success do that well. Succession is not done well. It's very difficult. Talk about your perspective on what he does right to allow something like this to work.

I think Dave does a very good job of recognizing other people's opinions on big issues. If he listens and steps out of the way, then he sees the value in that. And I think the way that he has been so intentional to put these strategic priorities together that include family, that include leadership tracks, he's put money, thought, effort, and sweat

into setting this thing up structurally to succeed, whether it's the personalities or the operating board or the development. I mean, the vision that now we have casted towards even a physical location. In every aspect, he's put in tension towards succession. You know, my observation is that he obviously has a strong opinion. I don't know anybody that has a stronger opinion than Dave Ramsey. However, he seems to be very disciplined to be intentional to allow, other people to earn their opinion.

He wants them to stand up behind it. Is that a proper assessment? He wants you to have an opinion and to prove it right and to win. I mean, he wants to hand the baton off. Is that a fair assessment? Absolutely, absolutely. He's just incredibly intentional, and I think it's the thing that he's excited about. And in a weird way, he's excited about watching it transfer.

I've never seen him so giddy. Then when Chris Hogan's book came in, I was standing out just out here. And I remember when they brought the book into Dave. and he was during radio commercial break, and he was like a five-year-old opening up a Christmas present. I mean that. He was genuinely that giddy

about handing his platform to Chris Hogan. And I know that's the way with everybody. Yeah, well, and one thing that is exactly that, which I think is so important for leaders everywhere, but especially with family businesses, he's an encourager. Yeah. And being in the same kind of role,

obviously not as because he is that I do. I mean, I speak and I write. I mean, we have similar things that we do in that arena. He doesn't cut my legs up from under me. I mean, he's always encouraging, course correcting, sure, different things. But I'm just thankful, you know, that it's not the CEO that you get done and he just tells you every single thing wrong. You know, he really is an encourager. And for that, I'm so grateful, again, because we are in the same similar role.

I'm like, who's a better speaker or broadcaster than Dave? I mean, no, no one is. He's so good at it. And so to feel like you're like living, you know, not in the shadow, that sounds bad, but you're doing the same kind of thing for him to be an encourager is huge. Okay, so we've been talking a lot about the virtues and how it is healthy and how it is working. But let's be candid. What would you say to the question of what have we, specifically you all, learned in this family business about what doesn't work about this unique structure?

Stay in your lane. That's what I've learned. We know what that means, but what does that mean? So just as an example, I remember coming home. This is kind of back to the hat thing, but it's just so crucial. We went up in eight at my parents' house. This was probably four years ago early on, and I was telling him all about this meeting I had had,

this idea that was being fleshed out, and I was so excited about it, this project that was going to happen. And, well, the next day I wake up to an email from him with everyone that I talked about that was in that meeting copied on it. And he said, you know, well, Rachel was telling me about this last night, and I don't know if this is going to, and starts giving his thoughts.

And I'm like, I had that, like, cold feeling run down my body, I was like, no, because the last thing I want people to think is that I'm in a meeting and then I go run home to my dad and tell him about it. You know, and so I was like, gosh, no. So I call it Dave bombing, where he went from the top and went way in the weeds. And I did that with the eye roll, right? I mean, I treated him like a dad. And so those lanes are just so, so important, I think, in the open communication.

Obviously, communication is huge. Yeah, I think it's really cliche to say, but I mean, just communication in general is such a sticky thing. and can be messed up so easily. I think one thing that has potential to be really bad is expectations. I feel like there's a lot of underline expectations for me that I've put on myself, and that's a big hindrance for me. I don't think that's put on by the rest of my family or Dave or anything like that. That I think, and the expectations for each other, too.

And really the best way to do it is to communicate that out and talk about, that and understand where we're all coming from in any situation. What's great about where we are currently is when I came in 18 months ago, I mean we were already at 400 plus team members probably. Yeah. And we have enough distance between each other at this point where I never really interact with Rachel or Winston or Denise on a day-to-day basis. And at the board meeting is really the only time that we come together and discuss things. And I'm not to the point yet where I have that voice. And so I think it'll be interesting to see as we grow older and as we take on more responsibility to see how we grow closer together as a family

and also how we are able to overcome conflict with each other because it's going to happen. You know, Daniel, I really appreciate you being vulnerable there and kind of saying, you know, I have to deal with expectations because of my unique role that I don't even feel the family putting on me, but I put them on myself. And I think a lot of people who are driven appreciate that. Let me put you on the spot here. Go for it. Patience.

You know, everybody's personality's different. Some of us are more patient than others by nature of wiring. But here you sit, you know, you're 18 months in. When you join the team, you know, as Dave likes to say, the company was going Zoom, Zoom, it's going Zoom, you know, the company of $100 million in revenue that we announced, you know, I mean, things are going great. And here you are, future owner, 24 years old, been here 18 months. You're sitting in now. You're not talking, but you're sitting in and listen to some big discussions.

I think this is important for some young. to hear, you know, who are in the family business or parents of those youngsters who are in the family business. How do you, just you, Daniel Ramsey, deal with, I got to put my time in, I may not know exactly how this is all going to turn out my role 15, 20, 30 years from now. You got a voice, you got a bright, you know, future, you've got a great business head. How do you kind of hold yourself back? Or do you? What's your unique personality on this? And what do you struggle with? No, I really got the advice from Winston and from Jack Gallo, one of our executive vice presidents,

and they've done a great job. And Rachel, too, of just giving me advice on that and just around coming into the company and what to expect. So they've gotten to pave the way for me in a lot of ways. But the advice that they gave me when I first started was, hey, you have an enormous amount of responsibility right now. And so it is almost too much pressure for me to think about 10 years, 15 years out, where, you know, I have dreams and I have hopes. And I think I know what God has for my life, but I can't really be sure at this point. So I do my best to focus on the goals and responsibilities I have right in front of me.

I was sitting in a meeting earlier today with my leader Josh. And we came up for my sales budgets of what numbers I need to hit each month. And that's a pretty big freaking goal. I didn't take freaking out. It's quite all right to say freaking. It's okay in Antre leadership plan. Good, good. Yeah, and so, I mean, I have huge goals in front of me right now that it's a waste of time emotionally for me to think too far in the future.

Now, I need to lay the groundwork and, you know, build my character and whatever at the moment. But if I just hit the goals in front of me and keep setting larger goals for myself, the future is going to take care of itself. All right. Speaking of goals, real quick, I know the answer to this, but I want to say it for our audience. Do you get paid more because your family members? No. No. No.

Big no. Big no. Enphatic no, folks, if you're catching that. That's important to point out. You have pay structure just like everybody else. Yes. Rachel is compensated the same way I would be in that particular space or whatever. It's across the board.

And that's important. You mentioned the husband-wife thing, working in the same office together. By and large, better, worse? I mean, it's a reality. Rachel and I work on different floors. We could go a whole day without seeing each other. Yeah. I would say this.

It can be done. Don't let it take over your life. Don't let it take over your weekend conversation. Don't let it take over your Tuesday night conversation beyond catching up on the day because it can quickly become your whole life. Is that true of when the whole Ramsey family goes out on the old ski vacation? We try to be really good at not talk about work. I mean, it'll seep in sometimes because we're excited about stuff going on.

But we really try to make it just family time. All right. Well, there it is. Anything else you want to add here to people that are thinking through this thing? Anything we didn't cover? Any nuggets? Any advice? Final thoughts? I just say open communication and family comes first. Don't damage a family relationship over business. They are Daniel Ramsey, youngest child of the Ramsey family, 24-year-old Daniel Ramsey, and then 27-year-old sister, Rachel Cruz. You know what I didn't ask you how old you are? How did I get away with it? Winston Cruz, the husband, the son-in-law. I'll be 30 in a month.

30 in a month. Very exciting stuff. The Big 30-0. Kids got a great beard. So does Daniel. These guys, they've got great beards. That has nothing to do with, you know, anything at all except I'm trying to paint a picture for you guys. A lot of hard work put into that. A lot of hard work. Definitely. All right, very nice. Beards are welcome here at Ramsey Solutions. We don't have a problem with that. It's part of the expectation. We can't be too mangy, though, right? I'm guessing, would we pull somebody aside if they had like the Rasta beads in them or something? A few people came to mind that probably should be pulled aside. There it is, folks.

Future owner staking an opinion on the Mangy Beards. There it is. Hey, guys, thanks for being with us. I know we're all better for it. Thanks, Ken. Big thanks to Daniel, Rachel, and Winston for letting us put them on the spot. Now, we enjoyed that so much that we're going to do a part two because you heard at the very beginning of the conversation that I mentioned, Denise,

who is the oldest of the three Ramsey Children. She runs the Ramsey Family Foundation and is an active board. member and an eventual owner. She couldn't be with us on this interview, but we're going to go deeper into this family business conversation. Specifically, we'll get them all back together, plus Denise, and this time we're going to talk about just that inner circle, them as the next generation of owners, how they interact with their unique personality styles, the unique family dynamics from their perspective. A whole different conversation, going to be great stuff, so stay tuned for that. We'll tell you when that's coming up. This family business stuff is so important. And so we have a great tool.

I told you about it at the top of the podcast. This is what it is, six major mistakes that will destroy your family business. This is a PDF. So it's going to educate you. You can share it with your team. This will help with the important conversations that you need to have to not make these six major mistakes. And we give you tips so that you can apply those. So simple stuff. By the way, we think you should print this thing off. Hand it out. Put it inside your desk. Put it in a place that you see it every day. Family business is so important. Here's how you get the tool. Text the word, family biz. That's all one word. Family B-I-Z. Family biz. You can text that to 33-444. Family biz is the word to text to 33-444. Now, for those of you, as always, who don't want

to text, you can also go online, Entreleadership.com slash podcast. The link for this tool, six major mistakes that will destroy your family business is there in the podcast note. So take that option as well. All right, InfusionSoft is giving something away that's very special this month. If you haven't heard about this, you're just joining us for the first time. We love Infusionsoft. Their entire mission is to help small businesses win. And it doesn't matter if you're small or large business. Your lifeline are your leads. So they've developed a great tool that's absolutely free, no strings attached. They're going to help you define your target market, create offers that actually convert and identify gaps in your current offers.

Simple stuff, great tool will help you instantly. Go get it at infusionsoft.com slash leads. Infusionsoft.com slash leads. Well, folks, that's going to do it for this edition of the Entree Leadership podcast. We love to hear from you. You can email us podcast at Entreeleadership.com. If you're not subscribed on iTunes, would you do us a favor? This is how we grow.

It's the water cooler. the digital space. You go to iTunes and subscribe to it, give us a rating, and spread the word. So much thanks to Daniel Ramsey, Rachel Cruz and Winston Cruz, and of course, as I always do, but we sincerely mean on behalf of our producer Eric Anthony and the entire Entree leadership team, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk to you again very soon.