EntreLeadership - #158: Simon Sinek—The #1 Question for Success

Episode Date: August 1, 2016

What’s the one question you need to ask that will propel you, your business and your team to greater heights? Leadership expert and best-selling author Simon Sinek stops by to give the answer, plus he shares lots of additional leadership and business tips. This episode is leadership gold.   entreleadership.com/podcast Team Communication Field Guide Infusionsoft's Guide to Repeat Sales Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Leadership is the most complicated thing you would ever do in your life. Why do you think you can do it alone? That thought and much more from Simon Seneca in this edition of the Entree Leadership Podcast. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now here is your host, Ken Coleman. Broadcasting from the Music City, this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, four leaders. That's you folks.

We're grateful for you joining the conversation. Here's what's coming up in this episode. We dip back into Ken's Electronic Mailbag. Simon Seneca is our feature conversation, and it is a new month. That means more free tools to help you. That's right, from our Entree leadership team and from our partners in Fusion soft. So good stuff. Great conversation with Simon.

I've got to tell you, I'm super, super pumped about you hearing it. So we're going to get to this thing right now. Let's go first to Ken's Electronic Mail. Ken's electronic mail. You've got mail. This email was from Sam Bradford and not the Sam Bradford, the former quarterback from Oklahoma, who went on to play in the NFL with the St. Louis Rams and now is with the Philadelphia Eagles. But this is Sam Bradford, nonetheless, and Sam, we appreciate the email.

He writes in, I found the Entree Leadership podcast while working at a church. I knew very little about leadership, but after listening to the first podcast, I was so excited I was shaking. I kept listening to the podcast and kept reading. I heard your interview with Travis Borsma of Dutch Bros. I was so amazed at their culture I had a local Dutch Bros. Representative come speak to my leadership team at the church. I have since stepped out of my job and joined Dutch Bros to better learn leadership while attending college for the first time in my life. I cannot say thank you enough. Thanks for being so awesome. And pouring into people's lives, you are making a difference. My life and my story are proof of that. Well, thank you, Sam, for that encouraging note. We appreciate that.

that very much. It is the Sam Bradfords of the world that remind us why we do what we do at Entree Leadership. I can tell you that. That is exciting. And how fun, Eric the producer, that he listens to an interview with Travis Borsma, brings in somebody from Dutch Bros, and then takes a job with him. And so if you're new to our podcast, you want to hear Travis Borsum. Trust me. You can go back in the old archives atentreleadership.com, click on podcast, or you can go to iTunes. It's episode 102, and Travis is one of the most refreshing guys that I have ever met. Had the opportunity to meet him in person, Eric the producer. I don't know if I even told you this.

He came to the Entry Leadership Summit in May, in Dallas, met several of his top leaders, took him backstage. Travis and Dave talked in the green room for a while, so it was really fun. Travis had his hat on backwards, you know, the Dutch Bros. Trucker hat on, flip-flops, the whole nine yards. Love those guys. Fun, fun, fun. And they listen to a lot of them listen to the podcast, so I can't be talking about them and not give them a shout-out.

So if you're on the Dutch Bros team, we love you guys and gals. Great team. Phenomenal people. So Sam, thanks for the email. And folks, we'd love to hear your story. Hey, we like to be encouraged. Now, we're not reading this to make ourselves feel good. We'll take any communication from you.

We'd love to hear from you. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Okay, folks, it is a new tool because we have a new month. and so in August, the Entree Leadership Focus is going to be on communication. A lot of fun stuff we're going to be bringing you. But this resource is something you need to have. It's called Team Communication Field Guide.

How to keep your team engaged and productive. This is vital. Let me tell you what's in this tool, this team communication field guide. We have our key results area. We call them KRAs. Every team member has a KRA. I've got one. Eric, the producer, has one.

and so we discuss what that looks like and what a KRA is and how it functions. We also talk about staff meetings, what we do, how we do it. How to handle difficult discussions. Nine hacks for highly productive meetings. A weekly report template and so much more. I'm just giving you a snapshot of six big buckets, if you will, in the team communication field guide. It is absolutely free. Here's how you get it.

You can text the word communication. communication, just text the word communication to 3344-3-4-4-4 or we have a link to the PDF download in our show notes. So just go to this episode at entreleadership.com slash podcast. Well, the very first interview I ever did on this podcast was Simon Sennick, just a bit over two years ago. And we're very excited. We've been telling you about the Entry Leadership Summit coming up in 2017. I'll tell you more about the details of that great event later. But we wanted to have him back on. It's been two years. And this guy is so great. Now, if you haven't heard of Simon Seneca, that's S-I-N-E-K, and you can check him out on the web. But the guy has written so

much and done so much. And we actually get into a bit of the backstory. I thought this was fun to get away from necessarily diving into a book and pulling it all out because we kind of did that two years ago, but I wanted to just almost have a conversation like I didn't know much about him, but it heard a little bit. And you're going to hear the backstory and how he really has risen to prominence and tremendous influence in the leadership space. And it's really refreshing. Get ready to learn. I think there's so much here from Simon, and we're thrilled to bring it to you. Here is my conversation. Simon, I want to start with your background. I think it's amazing to me as I try to think back when I heard your name.

And I was like, where'd this guy come from? And that's not a negative question, but rather something I'd love to explore. And I think our audience would love to know. So take us to your background. I mean, at what point do you get into the space or when do you begin to think, I want to get into this space of studying leaders, growth, helping businesses, and so on? Well, if it was a shock to you, you can imagine how much of a shock it was to me. Because I didn't set out to do anything that I'm doing now. My journey has been entirely organic.

The whole discovery of the concept of why and articulating the Golden Circle was not meant as an academic or commercial exercise. It was to help me. It was to save me. I owned a small business and had reached the point in my career that I had lost the passion for what I was doing. And people gave me stupid advice. They gave me advice like, do what you love or find your passion. You're like, thanks. What am I supposed to do with that?

I'm doing the same thing and I don't love it anymore. right and so I was in this is a really dark period for me where almost all of my energy went into pretending that I was happier more successful and more in control than I felt it's not a good space to be in and it wasn't until a friend came to me and expressed concern for me that I wasn't the same and she was worried about me did that give me the courage to try and find a solution as opposed to lying hiding faking wow and there was a confluence of events that happened over the course of a few months and I was able to put together this little pattern, because it was a discovery, really,

that I realized that the way the brain works, that every single organization, even our own careers, always function on these three levels, what we do, how we do it, and why we do it. It's just the way the brain makes decisions. And I realized I knew what I did, I knew how I did it, but I didn't know why. So I became obsessed with it.

I became obsessed with that missing piece. I realized that was putting me out of balance. And once I discovered my why, it restored my passion to levels I'd never experienced before, I did what anyone would do it. I shared it with the people I loved. They started making crazy life changes. They would invite me to their homes to share it with their friends.

And I literally started by talking to people's friends. I would stand in someone's apartment and people would be sitting around the living room and I'd talk about this thing called the Y. And I'd help them find their Y for a hundred bucks on the side. That's how it started. And so more people just kept inviting me to share it with them or help them or they wanted to introduce me to somebody. And I just kept saying yes.

It was an entirely organic thing. Wow. So this is fascinating to me, and I love this. I mean, this is really at its core a great entrepreneurial story. You had a problem. And usually it's associated with, okay, there's a problem. I want to start a solution, and then it turns into a business. You're already in a business, and you're trying to figure out what's wrong with you.

And again, you go after it on your own, and then it turns into this huge thing where you're helping so many people. I want to go back to those early moments where you're in these living rooms. And you're just sharing what you're learning about your own why. And people's lights had to be going on. I just assume you could see the light bulbs turning on behind their eyes. Is that true? Oh, 100%. The same light bulbs went up for them that went up for me.

Why do you think... Here's why I interrupt you, because I see this too. This is something I'm passionate about, is people understand why they're here on this planet. I think it's the biggest question we all ask. Why am I here? I can't think of a bigger question. Why do you think so many people struggle to find that? Because it's an abstract concept, right?

This is why visionaries are important because they take abstract concepts and they articulate them in terms that make them tangible. When Martin Luther King said, I have a dream that one day little black children will hold hands on the playground with little white children. It's something you can see and imagine in your mind's eye, and it's not this abstract concept of civil rights. One of the things about vision that I'm frustrated by, which is I think it's an unfair standard. Everybody's told these days you have to, what's your vision? Do you have to have a vision? I think that's grossly unfair because not everybody is Martin Luther King

or Steve Jobs. We don't all have these huge big visions and yet we know we need one. I think the correct way to tell people is you have to find a vision. So this is why visionaries have to learn to communicate their visions because when other people hear their visions,

they can say, that's what I believe, that's what I want, that's the world I want to live and that's what I need. I'm going to follow that person. I'm going to follow that movement. And we join up and we choose to follow, and their vision becomes ours. So I think one of the things that I did to answer your question is, because I needed it myself,

I was able to put some sort of vision into terms that others could see, not just feel, but see and feel. And I think the reason they were jaunted is because they found something that they wanted to do, be a part of, et cetera, et cetera. This burden of have a vision is madness, but rather find a vision. I think we should go looking for it, but it doesn't necessarily have to come from within us. that can come from the outside. I think that right there. And folks, I really want you to lock in if you need to go rewind literally what Simon just said.

Because I think this is huge. I want to stay here and unpack this. I think that's so profound. There are vision casters and then there are vision followers. And I think you're absolutely right on here. And we have a lot of people who say, hey, I'm trying to figure out the vision for my life and all these other things. And you may not have a vision to cast, but there certainly may be a vision for you to follow. I think that is profound.

And so let me ask, based on what you just said there, you said that people have to feel it. They can see it, but they have to feel it to follow it. You didn't say that, but I'm extrapolating that. Is that the case? Because as a leader, you have to be aware that you may cast a vision that a lot of people will see, but only few will follow. Is that right? That's correct. That's correct.

You know, the seeing is the articulation, right? I see what you're trying to build. I see what you imagine, right? But if you don't feel it, you're not going to commit to following it. You're not going to commit the time or the energy unless there's some sort of underlying flame that is lit. So this is why when we say go look for a vision, go find a vision that resonates with you. Listen to the words we use, right?

Resonation is a vibration, right? These are the words we use, which is there are many people out there who put their visions out. You know, Steve Jobs put out a vision and so did Bill Gates. Which one do you want to follow? And this is why we don't all follow the same person. follow the same belief set. We follow the one that resonates with us

that we can feel. But the sad thing about our society is we celebrate the visionary. And the visionaries are important. Absolutely. They are the compasses. And you've got to have a compass if you're going to get anywhere.

It's true. But we completely forget and ignore that no visionary on the planet would ever have their vision come to life if it weren't for the followers who elected to follow. And it's the followers who make visions into reality.

Visionary set the direction. And so this is what gives our lives purpose, right? This stupid and endless pursuit of having a vision, and I'm going to go and live in the woods for a week and have a corporate offsite, and we're going to figure out our vision. Sometimes that works, but we can also find a vision, and when we find one that resonates,

that we feel, when choose to follow it, then we can commit our time and our resources to build it. And sometimes we will build it beyond even what the visionary imagines. Then others choose to follow us. You know, we didn't even realize it. It's like the visionary lights the torch, but somebody has to carry the torch and pass it onto a next generation. Boy, that's so true.

I mean, this is so crystallizing for leaders. If you're looking at your team, whether you're developing a team, Simon, or you have inherited a team, or you're just kind of taking a checklist and going, okay, where do we stand? Who's following the vision? If you've got a lot of people in your team that are seeing it but aren't following it, it seems to me you need to get rid of those people. Is that fair? No, not necessarily. Maybe the vision is poorly articulated. Oh, that's fair.

Okay. See, a lot of visionaries. You talk to some of the visionaries, and one of the failings of visionaries is because it's so clear to them, they assume it's clear to everybody else. I've talked to so many remarkable visionary leaders who, while they're still at the company, it works fine because if you spend enough time around that visionary leader, you kind of get it. The problem is what happens when they leave. If it's not properly written down and properly articulated, our founding fathers wrote

their vision in the Declaration of Independence. It's crystal clear. We're good to go. But folks like Sam Walton, you know, didn't write his vision down in terms so clear that others people could understand. And look what happened to Walmart. It like went off the deep end. It became obsessed with money and growth and it sacrificed people for its own financial gain,

where in the Sam Walton days, that would be unheard of. Unheard of. In other words, they violated the vision. So, you know, visionary leaders, very often the reason a lot of these organizations only survive a couple of generations before they sort of go haywire because the person who takes over usually worked with that person is because they don't do a good job of articulating it in ways that other people can understand it for generations beyond. That's good. However, if you do a great job of clarifying that vision and it's clear, my point in asking you is this is almost like

a litmus test. You'll want to find people. This is assuming, I'm glad you made that stipulation, but assuming you've done a great job of clarifying and communicating the vision, you want people who feel it, not just see it. Right? Absolutely. Absolutely. And the place that that starts is in recruiting. And what we tend to do is we recruit to skills and we recruit to the assets that we need. And yet we do a poor job of recruiting to fit. Do you feel like you want to work here?

Do I feel like you would belong here? And so we tend to hire too quickly. We hire based on resumes, previous experiences, and a couple of not very deep interviews. Can you imagine if you got married that way? You know, I'm going to look at the list of your credentials. I'm going to look at your grades from school. I'm going to have two dates with you, and then I'm going to marry you. You probably want to get to know the person.

And so what good organizations do is they hire very, very slowly with the expectation that you're never ever going to leave this job and will never ask you to leave. Even if you have performance issues, we're going to coach you because you're such a good fit and we know that you belong here. We're committed to you. If you couldn't fire somebody, you're going to hire very differently than you hire now. It's because we can fire so easily that we hire too quickly. And so I would pretend or even implement a system of lifetime employment, but pretend you can never fire a person.

Now go recruit. Now go recruit to your set of values, not rather than we need an IT director, you know? That's good. This is so fun. I feel like I'm having coffee in Manhattan with Simon. So let's go back. This is what I do if we were having coffee. Back to the living room where you're beginning to share your why and everything you're learning. I can just imagine. I'm going back there, and I'm imagining you're just digesting so much and you're so passionate about it. And this turns into this one thing after the next. Because this has really been an entrepreneurial journey and a personal growth journey. Take us, maybe fast forward from you begin to gain momentum. When did it hit critical mass? What were the things that happened in your career? And a lot of times we celebrate and we focus on the great moves and the big moves. But I'm looking for that where you just were in the wilderness, if you will, and you were just, you know,

chopping at the tree and doing what you loved and you begin to discover your why and you've got this fire lit and how you just developed it, how you kept taking one step in front of the other. That's what I want to know. So there's two answers and they're from different sides of the same coin, which is you said, when did the critical mass hit? I still don't think it's hit. I like that. That's good news for you.

Yeah. No matter how much I do or whatever success others calculate that I've achieved, for me, I since the day I started, when somebody would say, oh my God, I can't believe you did this, my answer was always and continues to be

tip of the iceberg. And they said, oh my God, you had this TED talk that's so famous, tip of the iceberg. Oh my God, this book came out,

tip of the iceberg. Your second book, your third book, tip of the iceberg. You know? And the reason for me, and you're like, you know,

the concept of why is now in the standard business vernacular, tip of the iceberg. And the reason is because we need to profoundly change the way business functions in America today.

Many of the business theories that are standard today are leftovers, throwbacks from the 80s and 90s, shareholder supremacy, using mass layoffs to balance the book, Rankin, Yank, pitting people against each other. They're all from the 80s and 90s,

times of relative peace and boom years, where, you know, it was a much easier different time and they don't work anymore. And until we completely reject all of those theories that no longer work today, that were good for those days, and completely replace them, everything that I'm doing is still tip of the iceberg.

Now, on the other side of it is, I'm so in love with the journey. Other people set out these goals, like, I'm going to make a million dollars, I'm going to build a $100 million company, whatever it is. You know, you set goals that you're not even fully in control of, first of all. But second of all, that's not where the joy of life comes from. For me, it's the steps and it's the progress towards the vision that I find amazing. And so even though we had like $10,000 in the bank account, there were days that we weren't even sure we would make payroll, many days that we weren't sure we were going to make. payroll, every little step that we took was as joyous as the steps that I take now,

because everything that makes me feel, feel, that I'm getting closer to that vision is to me overwhelmingly happy. And so I don't think in critical masses. I think in momentums. And trends and momentums are way more important to me than any particular win or loss. Like, I tend to be very even keeled. Like when we have a big win, I'd be like, cool. Okay.

Well, tip of the iceberg. onto the next. And it's sort of, you know, I feel bad for my team because they're celebrating and they're excited, and I tend to be pretty even-keeled. But at the same time, when something goes wrong or we lose something, I also am pretty even-keeled because I'm playing a very, very long-term game and I see these things as speed bumps. I don't have to win every battle to win the war. And yes, there's setbacks, and yes, I'm disappointed, and yes, I want to learn my lessons,

but we'll figure it out, you know, onto the next. That's right. You're in it for the long haul. I'm in it for the long haul. So I tend to have incredible joy in the journey. And no matter what I've achieved, I still feel that it's tip of the iceberg. That's good. Well, I love that.

I love that that's how you answered that. That's tremendous humility because you have achieved a lot, but you've got a bigger goal in mind. And I think that is the engine that's driving you. Let me ask you again, going, I'm trying to help folks who are, they've got something that's burning in their chest and they are connecting with this story. What are your, if you had to list them out, what are your unique gifts that if you look at all of them, your gifts, the unique ones I'm referring to, the ones that are your best ones. Like, what would you say if you're describing Simon Seneca to us? So there's one that's learned and there's one that I think is innate. The learned one comes from my childhood. I believe that the solutions we find to overcome

our weaknesses as children become our strengths as adults. And so... All right, now that's really good. I want you to say that again. I want people to get that. I believe that the solutions we find to overcome our weaknesses as children become our strength as adults. Wow. And this is why it's so important when our kids are struggling not to just put them on drugs or something and not to yell at them, but to encourage them to help them find solutions and not play the victim, because that, whatever solution they find will be the thing that makes them unbelievably valuable as an adult. So for me, I absolutely guaranteed had ADD as a kid. guarantee it, right? Could never focus, never did any reading, could, you know, terrible, right?

Which means I struggle to do homework, which means I struggle to do reading, which I, all of these things were a struggle for me. It drove my parents crazy. I just got yelled at for being unfocused and lazy, right, by most people, but I still had to do well at school. I still had to pass. And so I wasn't put on drugs and I wasn't diagnosed with anything. And just as aside, you know, how dare we tell our children that they have an attention deficit? and disorder. So you tell a child that they have a deficit and a disorder, yet we forget that kids with ADD also have hyperattention, which is in short spans they can get more done than other people. So let's label it by the positive. So as a kid, I had hyperattention, unfortunately, that came

with bouts of unfocus, right? I love that. So I had to figure out as a kid how to get through school because I was terrible at doing the work. And so I got really, really good at asking for help. I got really, really good at talking to the teacher after the class because I didn't often do the reading. I got really, really good at asking my friends for help, not cheating, not having them do my homework, but having them explain the concepts to me and was totally open to talking to millions of people all the time so that I could understand the work that I needed to do. In college, I was very careful about taking classes where it wasn't that I didn't have to do a lot of reading, but rather I had to do a lot of listening and going to class and talking, because if it was only

reading, I would fail, right? Absolutely. That is. So in college, I had control of it. So now, in this day and age, as an adult, I'm really good at asking for help. I'm really good at admitting the things I don't know. And I'm really good at sort of, I'm very, very, very, very resourceful. Like, I can pick up the phone and figure out the solution to something and ask for somebody to introduce me to somebody and introduce me to somebody. And I will absolutely get the solution. I'm dogged about it. Now, that resourcefulness, that intense resourcefulness comes from having to get through school as a kid with no focus.

and I'm so glad I'm so glad that I wasn't put on any drugs and I'm so glad I wasn't diagnosed anything and I'm so glad I had sort of parents who sort of encouraged me to find my way because that has now become unbelievably unbelievably, unbelievably valuable to me as an adult. So that's the learned one. That's the learned one. The innate one is I'm, I just have an innate ability to see patterns so I can see patterns in seemingly disconnected information.

So you give me vast amounts of data and I can see a pattern. in it. I'm not reading it. Somebody's probably telling me about it. But I can go have 10 conversations with 10 CEOs or 10 companies and they'll all tell me their problems and I will see the common factor and point it out to them and they'll they didn't see it before. I'll sometimes sit with people when I'm doing wide discoveries and ask them questions about their own life. And I'll be like, do you see the pattern you just told me? They're like, no. I'm like, you just gave me the same answer every question. And then as soon as I pointed out, they see it too. So the one that I think is innate is just,

and it probably has been honed just from practice is just the ability to see patterns and in lots of information. Yeah, if I was going to put it in my words, I'd say you were an astute observationist. I mean, you really observe things, and it's that pattern thing and pull things out. Then you have a great gift of simplifying things. I find what is so refreshing about your speaking is your ability to distill from maybe complex factors or all these different things, and then boom, here's the simplicity. and that's a great strength. Have you worked to develop that, or would you say that's more on your innate strength side? So it goes back to when I was a kid.

Like, I'm smart enough to know that I'm not that smart, right? I'm okay saying I don't understand something out loud. And so it's not that I simplify things because I want to. I simplify things because I have to because otherwise I don't understand them. Right. So I'll give you a prime example, right? So I was invited to, there was a company we used to work with many years ago, and it was a big company, and they hired a management consultancy to come and do some work for them.

I don't know what. and all the senior executives, C-levels, all the C-level executives are sitting around in this huge boardroom, and the management consultants were presenting their findings. And they asked me if I just wanted to sit in on the meeting. So I said, sure. So the management consultants doing their thing, and everybody's nodding and everybody's nodding. And I sort of raised my head and say, I'm really, really sorry. I'm fully aware that I'm the only person in this room that doesn't have an MBA.

But can you please explain to me how you got to your answer? Because A plus B doesn't equal the answer you're telling me. Can you just re-explain it to me? I'm really sorry. I'm the idiot. I'm really sorry. they try it again. And I'm like, listen, A plus B equals D, not C. You're telling me it equals C. I'm just really sorry. Can you please explain it again? I just don't understand the logic. Anyway, this line

of questioning, one by one, all of the C-level executives said, yeah, I don't understand either. Now, had I not spoken up, they all would have nodded their heads, said, thank you very much, paid all the money, and that would have been a pointless exercise, because nobody was willing to sit there and say they didn't understand. In other words, nobody understood. So I think a lot of people don't understand complex things. They just pretend they do. I'm just the idiot who's, you know, willing to humiliate himself and be like, I don't get it. So can somebody please explain it to me in dirt simple terms?

Right. I put things in dirt simple terms so that I understand the things that I'm trying to communicate. Well, there's a great lesson there about personal growth. You know, you have the courage to just ask why or say, hey, I don't understand, explain it to me. And then it ends up helping the rest of the group who just doesn't have the courage to say it. And the risk you run is, the risk you run is sometimes you get humiliated. Right. Not always.

Sometimes you get an answer and sometimes people are like, oh my God, me too. But sometimes you are the idiot. And so if you're afraid of that, you'll never get the great answers. But if you're willing to accept that, you'll get the great answers. Yeah. I can tell you, I very much identify with this. But I'm the guy who's, and again, I'm a professional question asker, you know, wrote a book about, I'm obsessed with questions. So, but I'll, Simon, I'll just ask, even if, I'll laugh it off.

It's a good laugh if I just miss something. I'm a moron. But I got to know. I can't walk out of a meeting and not know. It'll drive me nuts. It'll absolutely drive me nuts. Is that something that's driving you? Well, we all do it. It's not a, it's, look, everybody lies. We all like to think of ourselves as honest, but everybody lies. Here's an example. Somebody, it's Christmas time or your birthday, and somebody gives you a present. It's the ugliest sweater you've ever seen in your entire life. And they say to you, do you like it? Now, you're not going to say to them, no, it's the ugliest sweater I've ever seen in my entire life. because that would hurt their feelings.

And so what we do is we lie. We say, oh, my God, I love it, right? We lie so as we protect other people's feelings. So the question is, how can you be in that same situation without the lie? How do we practice telling the truth? So if they say, do you like it, you can say, oh, my God, thank you so much for thinking of me, right? And kind of avoid the question. That's right.

I like that. Because what we end up doing is lying, hiding, and faking. That's what we do. So here's something that I suggest everybody try. It's unbelievably difficult, right? do not tell a single lie for the next 48 hours. Zero. No little white lies, nothing.

So when you're sitting eating in a restaurant and the soup's a little bit salty and the waiter comes over and says, how is everything? And everybody looks up and goes, yeah, it's fine. Thank you. It's great. Fine. Thank you. Right?

That's a lie. So now, if you're going to take this challenge of mine, so for the next 48 hours, you can't tell a single lie. Now, you don't have to volunteer that the soup is salty if you don't want to. But if the waiter comes over and says, how is everything? You have to look up and say, if I'm honest, the soup's a bit salty. Right? Right. So I took this oath.

I tried this out. And by sheer coincidence and bad luck, I would say, I had a meeting with the head speechwriter for the Senate majority leader. So I'm sitting in this beautiful office in the Capitol with these vaulted ceilings. And she walks in. And the first question she asks me is, how much research have you done on the senator? Now, on any other day, I would have said a little, because that's what we say to save face. Like, have you heard of this book? I think so.

sounds vaguely familiar, all lies. The answer is never heard of it in my life, right? That's so true. Right. So we all say these little white lies to save face. So on any other day, I would have said a little. And literally in my head, I was like, come on, right? So she asked me this question, how much research have you done?

And I look at her, I go, none. And she said, okay, let me tell you then. She wasn't testing me. She was finding out her baseline. And by me telling her the truth, she filled me in on everything I needed to know. If I had said a little, she would have told me less, and I wouldn't have known enough. Now, it could have gone the other way. She could have scolded me and said, you're going to show up for a meeting with me and you don't do any.

Like, it absolutely could have gone the other way. That's the risk you run. But what I learned is if you can find the ways to tell the truth always, right? Always. What ends up happening is people tell you everything you need to know. And now in restaurants, it happens to me all the time. I don't necessarily volunteer the information, but if the way to conservants is, how's the soup? And I say, if I'm honest, it's a little salty.

99 times of 100, what happens to me is the chef will come out or the matri d will come over and say thank you. Because nobody tells them. And that's what they want to know. That's exactly right. We're just so afraid of some level of confrontation. Yeah. It ends up hindering us. It's so good. All right. Let me ask you this. Who influences you, whether it be somebody from the past or someone who right now may be influencing you? I'm just really curious. And I ask this to some people, and they go, well, I don't really read a lot of other people.

I remember asking Gary Vaynerchuk this, and he said, Gary goes, listen, I don't want this to sound the wrong way, but I don't read anybody, I don't watch anybody. I'm just doing my own thing. But I am curious to know, is there anybody who influences you or has had tremendous influence on your work? Of course. I mean, and people have influenced Gary as well. Gary has friends.

Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course. You know, my grandfather was a huge influence on me. He was an odd character who might. marched the beat of his own drum. And he sort of instilled in me the sense that it doesn't matter what people think of you. Just be you. Just you be you. You know, like I really got that from a very,

very young age. And I saw sides of him that other people didn't see and I got him in a way that other people didn't get. So that was very special for me and continues to be very special for me. And there are leaders that I truly admire, Lieutenant General George Flynn from the United States Marine Corps, a man of such high integrity and such remarkable humility. You know, he just, amazing human being. I learn about humility from him. Like when I think of myself getting a little bit cocky, I think of how George would react to something. And he's a dear friend, and yet I still sometimes catch myself calling him, sir, just out of respect, you know? Yes, yes, yes. People that I've written about that I've become friends with after the fact, like I've written about Bob Chapman

from Barry Waymiller, who's become a dear friend and mentor. And what I learned from Bob is just the unbridled undying optimism and seeing the good in everything. and everyone. You know, I can be a little bit quick to react sometimes. And when Bob's quick to react, he's quick to react because he sees the positive. And I'm practicing, every day I practice to be, to have that attribute of Bob. Because it's amazing and it makes people feel so good and it makes them want to work even harder for him.

I see it. My friend Charlie, fantastic, you know, always iterating, never satisfied, always iterating, never satisfied. So what I learned from Charlie is just ship it imperfectly. Just good is fine. It doesn't have to be great. Just get it good and then fix it and make it better. Then make it better.

Then make it better. Then make it better. I love that. The stress of having something be perfect before I release it is gone. I'm okay with good, but then I have to make it better. I'm never satisfied with good. I'm just okay releasing with good, you know. And there are some political leaders that I really admire.

I'm not a Catholic, but I absolutely love the Pope. I think what he stands for, He embodies everything that I get to write about. You know, he stands for something bigger than his own position. He stands for something bigger than the church. He stands for something deeply, deeply human. He's incredibly inspiring, incredibly inclusive. And as a result, he enjoys love and popularity from outside the Catholic Church.

I think that's amazing. That's a sign of great leadership that you can be admired and respected outside your own box. Now, who are the political leaders? You just said that and you kind of chuckled, but I want to hear. I want to know who those are. Oh, I chuckled because I think the ones that I admired. are dead. Oh.

Like, there's not, I mean, come on. I'm with you there. Like, I'm with you there. What political leaders are alive now that have the courage to,

you know, to lose their jobs to do the right thing? None. Exactly. And the joke is, they'll just go get another job and make more money anyway.

That's the joke. Oh, absolutely. So. Well, it's true. I could give you a long list of guys who got voted out and they're making more money as lobbyist on K Street.

Of course. So who are some of the past political leaders? I think this is fascinating. I'm a history junkie. myself. I loved Thomas Jefferson and Theodore Roosevelt, two of my favorites. So who would be a few that you, when you said that, who was in your mind? Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love Thomas Jefferson as well. A man who wrote the Declaration of Independence to be for all mankind, but said America will be the experiment. We'll try this out. You know, a total idealist who volunteered to use our country to prove to the world that this is a good way to be, you know? Love that, love that. I talk about Dr. King a lot, a man who understood the concept of vision better than most. I think if you listen to the first inaugural addresses of the first inaugural address of Ronald Reagan and the inaugural address of John of Kennedy, both use the terms peace on earth, world peace,

in their inaugurations. In other words, they're unflappable idealists. And I think that sense of idealism is largely gone today. And when we do have the occasional politician talk about something in ideal terms, you know, positive, positive ideal terms, not just different, you know, but positive ideal terms, the whole world lashes out of them that it's unrealistic. Well, I've never heard of an idealist that was realistic. Can you imagine preaching civil rights in a time of the 1960s,

or women's suffrage at the turn of the century? Or heck, our own country in the time of British colonialism? I mean, madness. How can you be so unrealistic? So I like unrealism, because I'd rather fail, I'd rather strive for 100 and fail at 80 than strive for 29 and be ecstatic when I hit 28, you know? So I like ideal.

And we've lost idealism in our politicians, you know, lofty, crazy visions, cities on a hill, you know, bright, shining cities on a hill, we've lost them. And we need that inspiration much more than we need saber rattling and accusations of unrealism or it's, you know, this next election. That's really good. That's really good, Simon. I just got to tell you, you just that's the idealism of the past becomes the realism of tomorrow. You know, it can't. It actually can't, but it always starts out as this idealist, you know, you know, polyana type vision. Yeah, absolutely. Every time somebody accuses of me being naive and unrealistic, I'm like, yeah, you know? Yes, score one for me. Score one for me. I guess my vision is big enough, you know?

That's really funny. Tell us what you're working on now, because I know you're always looking forward. What are you working on now? Yeah, a bunch of really great projects that I'm excited about. The one that's coming up closest is a new book coming out in September called, Together is better. I love this book. I can't tell you how much I love it.

It's nothing like what I've done in the past. You know, my past books were these sort of thinky-thinky books where I attempt to, you know, offer an entirely new perspective on how to see the way business or leadership works and really challenge people's thinking and really make them go, hmm, right? This new book just embraces one idea that we are better together than we are alone. And it's a very, very simple storyline. It's fully illustrated.

modeled it after a children's book, even though it's for us, and it was designed simply to be delightful. And I designed it specifically to be given away. You know, if people buy it for themselves, that's great. But I wrote it so that we will have something to give to the people we love, to the people we want to say, thank you for believing in me, thank you for helping me be who I am today, thank you for inspiring me. Or I want to show you the importance of working together. Like all of those people in our lives, I wrote this book for us to give to them. where did that come from what was I'd love to find out where that came from what was the moment was there a moment was there a buildup period where you said this is something I've got to do well that's a common theme in all my work where you go to start with why or leaders eat last or even the new theories that I'm toying around with these days you know the common theme in all my life is in all my work rather is this you can't do this alone like building a business is so difficult why would you ever try and do it alone leader Leadership is the most complicated thing you would ever do in your life.

Why do you think you can do it alone? You know, it's like difficult and dangerous things. We would never think to do alone. Together, honestly, is better. And the thing that we don't nurture is how do you create together? How do you create a team of people who love each other and care about each other and got each other's backs? How do you find and make relationships where you trust each other so deeply that you know no matter what you have each other's backs? I mean, that's what love is.

That's what you think about your own personal relationship. The best definition of love I ever heard is giving someone the power to destroy you and trusting they won't use it. Now apply that to the relationships you have at work. Wow. Right? And the question is, how do you create those relationships with partners and employees and bosses that literally you give someone the power in the company to destroy the company and trust that they won't use it? Whether it's access to information, access to bank accounts, control over significant parts of the business, you know, whatever it is. It's an incredibly powerful thing.

It's an incredibly nerve-wracking thing. And so once you do that, amazing, amazing, amazing things happen. Amazing things happen. And so I just want to remind people that in this day and age where we seem to think we can run a business sitting at a desk and we have access to the whole world because we have texting and cell phones and emails

and I can sit at my desk and be connected. You're connected, but you're not connecting. And it's my little reminder to people that no matter how connected you are, go connect with human beings, you know, feel connected. is way more important and way more valuable for the long term and for your own health and well-being. When does that book come out? September 14th.

Oh, I love it. Now, let me ask you this. I'm a father of three, 10, 8, and 7. And because it's illustrated, but it's written for us, and you were referring to adults, it seems to me that possibly this could be a great book to give to our kids. And what I mean by that is to read it with them because it seems to me it's going to be simplistic enough for them to grasp it. Is that true? It's very, very simple.

It's an illustrated story guided by quotes. That's all it is. It's quotes and aphorisms that guide you through this hero's journey. And it would be amazing for people to share it with kids. Very, very simple. Even a kid could read it because there's only one sentence per page. I love it. That seems to me like that that's a before.

I'll tell you where I'm thinking right now, I'm thinking before bedtime, we read one page and we discuss it. And you see if they're willing to dive in. I mean, give it any given night, any parent knows this. You may not have their attention at all. But it seems to be something we should be doing with them because I love the theme. This is a great theme for kids. to get early on. Yeah, and it's about putting our phones away and spending time with our friends.

Boy, that's a good message. All right, before we let you go, I will always love to ask this question. And for you, you've kind of answered it. But what personally, in your own life, just personally, whether it be as a leader, as a man, what's something that you're working on to grow to get better at? That's a great question. So I took a listening class. I took a communications class. I took a communications class. class, and here's what I learned. I learned that I am a fantastic, amazing listener with people I will never see again for the rest of my life. And yet with the people who are very close to me, I'm a terrible, terrible listener. Wow. And I would give myself credit all the time. So when my friends would accuse me where people I loved, accuse me of being, not listening, I'd be like,

are you kidding? I do this for a living. I'm an amazing listener. And I was, I was with people I would never see again in my life. I would make them feel heard and I would I would use all my energy to take in every word and understand the meaning of what they're trying to say and not just react to the words all true. And with the people that I loved, shocking. And it smacked me upside the head. And so I've really been practicing very, very hard to pay the same kind of attention and offer the same kind of respect to the people I love and care about to make them feel heard. And it's much harder in personal relationships because sometimes they say things that hurt or that you take personally, you get defensive. And how I can listen past their words to understand the meaning

and exercise empathy, I'm working very, very hard on that these days. I have to ask you a follow-up there because I know you've thought about this. And that's very convicting. I would say that's true. Why do you think that we do that? Why do we tend to listen better? to those in a professional setting and not listen as well with those that we do life with? I think it's for the same reason why you have a lawyer negotiate a contract for you. It's because the lawyer is not emotionally involved. And so when somebody says to you, I don't like this term, you know, the lawyer doesn't take it personally.

We take it personally, right? So we get all hot and bothered and angry. Really, it's just a financial term. It's no big deal. But we take it as a sign of respect, right? Right. So I think it's the same thing. It's, which is we're not emotionally involved with the people who we're talking to in a professional basis.

You know, I give counsel to all kinds of leaders, and I'm emotionally disconnected whether they follow my advice or not. I hope it helps them, but if they choose to ignore me and think I'm an idiot and they pummel their business into the ground, I'm still going to wake up and go to bed the same. You know, it's like, I'm not losing, like, I want them to do well, but I really don't. It's like, it's not my business. It's their business, you know? Right. But the problem is, these are my relationships. And, and, you know, sometimes when somebody's saying the things that I did wrong, my immediate result was like, yeah, well, you did this wrong.

And the only reason I acted that way is because you acted this way, you know? That's so true. As opposed to putting my feelings aside and be like, okay, I'll deal with my stuff later. Let me just try and understand the issue that's happening here. And let's resolve her thing first and I'll deal with my thing later, you know? Oh, it's so good. So hard. It's so hard.

It is. It is, man. I'm bruised and battered, but I'm better for it. I got to tell you, this is great. Well, I can't wait. I got to tell you, I can't wait for you to join us at our summit event next spring in Orlando. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait to be with you.

This was so much fun, Simon, and I appreciate it. I know you're a busy guy, and I'm really excited about your projects, and know that we, at Entree Leadership, love everything you do, and we appreciate you. The Feelings Mutual. Thanks once again for giving me a platform to share my ideas. so nice to have a conversation just, you know, as if we were having a cup of coffee. Really, really enjoyed it. Thanks for having me. Hey, folks, I'm going to tell you right now, you need to go to start with why.com.

This is, I think, the first step. If you want to dive into more of Simon Seneca, if he's new to you, start with why.com. That's the name of the book that I think is mandatory reading for leaders, really, really good stuff. Startwithy.com. Now, I also mentioned, before we at the interview that he's going to be speaking at our 2017 summit. The calendar dates of that event, May 21 through 24, May 21 through 24, 2017 in Orlando, Florida. It'll be hotter than the surface of the sun, but we will have air conditioning going, and the content's going to be hot. It's going to be a lot of fun.

This will be our third summit event. And just like we did with Pat Lynchioni, Eric the producer, and our amazing entree leadership team have worked together to give you a special discount. So for one week, is this right? One week, you got one week from the day that this thing launches. All right. And you got one week, and if you contact one of our sales advisors at Entree Leadership, you can save $300 on your purchase.

That's a big chunk of change. Humongous savings. You've got one week from the day that this downloads. And now, just to give you an idea, it hits cyberspace on a Monday. So you've got one week from the day this thing launches, to get your $300 discount. And we're also going to be doing something fun. We're going to be doing a meetup at the event for podcast listeners.

I'll be thrilled to meet you, answer your questions. We'll have a big time. It'll be fun. I'll make sure that we have some great refreshments and hors d'oeuvres. And we'll just have a big time. This is a special community, and this is for that. So we haven't set an agenda for that, but I can tell you this. It'll be fun.

It'll be worth your while. So that's a part of your deal. If you order your tickets, you get it now. With one week, you get the $300 discount, and you also get to show up at our exclusive podcast meetup. That's not going to be for anybody, but for you podcast people who buy these tickets at this special rate. So go to entreleadership.com slash summit. Entreeleadership.com slash summit. And when you talk to one of our advisors, just mentioned the $300 special on Simon Seneca podcast and the meetup with Ken.

You've got one week to jump on this. What are you waiting on? Go. By the way, Dave Ramsey, Robert Hershevik from Shark Tank, the legendary coach Lou Holtz, leadership guru John Maxwell, I think, one of the most refreshing leadership voices in all of America. Pat Lynchione, Christy Wright, and Chris Hogan from our team all on the lineup. It's going to be great. Entreeleadership.com slash summit. Get with our advisors, get the discount.

And I would love to see you all. It's going to be fun. I'm looking forward with the podcast meetup. Are you going to be there, Eric, the producer? you're going to be there. I'm going to pull some strings. I'll talk to Tarty. I'll talk to Daniel Tarty. I'll say, listen, I've got the meetup, and I just won't feel right being there without my right and left arm. That's what you are. You're my right and left arm. Eric, by the way, Eric, the producer, behind the glass, just gave me the fist bump, and then, what would you call

that? The fist tap to the chest over the heart. That was very heartfelt. I'm very, he just said in my ear, heartfelt chest tap. I like that. That's a good move. That's a good move. Hey, I'll tell you what else is a good move is taking up InfusionSoft on their tool this month. This is the month of August. So here we go. How do you automate repeat sales? Now, that is a million dollar question.

Literally. How do you automate repeat sales? How many of you would like to automate repeat sales? Eric, I can literally hear the hands going up all across the world. So Chad Kirby from InfusionSoft has. a new tool for you this month. It's very helpful. It's on this topic. How do you automate repeat sales? So Chad actually got on the mic and he's going to tell you what the big sale for you as a small business owner means and how you can automate it. Check this out from

Chad Kirby. You know, one of the things I learned when I was a new salesperson years ago, as a mentor told me, the very first sale you make is actually the smallest cell you'll ever make. I asked him, why is that? And he said, well, because that first sale is when people give you a little bit of money. But when you really make the big sale is when you've built that trust over time. And we work so hard to get that first sale. And then we don't even think about what additional sales we can make with that person. We often, too often, just go and try and find that next first sale. And so what we do is we forget about that customer. And the reality is we're so busy as entrepreneurs, as on trade leaders, we're so busy trying to get that next customer that we forget about the customer that we just sold. That's actually a potentially a bigger customer. And so we've taken a strategy, put it together, and put it in a guide for you on trade leaders at infusionsoft.com forward slash repeat sales to show you how you can automate this experience so that you don't lose any of those potentially bigger customers

because you're off looking for the next customer. So go to infusionsoft.com forward slash repeat sales, download the guide to really taking your business to the next level and making sure you don't lose any current customers. Big thanks to Chad Kirby and our friends at InfusionSoft for that great tool. Hey, I want to thank Simon Seneca for his time and we're really, really excited to have him at the Entree Leadership Summit's going to be big fun. On behalf of our producer, Eric Anthony, and the entire Entree leadership team, we thank you listeners so very much, and we'll talk with you again very soon.