EntreLeadership - #188: David Novak—Why Recognition Matters

Episode Date: February 27, 2017

Want to make your team happier, more productive and ready to take on every day? Acclaimed CEO David Novak joins us to discuss a simple but powerful tool that can help you achieve that goal: recognition. Whether you’re just starting a company or have hundreds of employees, this conversation will help you bring out the best in those around you. Also on tap, Ramsey Solutions Chief Experience Officer Brian Williams stops by to share his leadership tips and how he uses the DISC Profile System to communicate with his team. entreleadership.com/podcast DISC Cheat Sheet Infusionsoft's 2017 Marketing Trends Report Summit Registration Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. We are broadcasting from the Music City, and this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, four leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Going to be a good one. Our feature conversation is with David Novak, former CEO of Yum Brands. They manage KFC.

That's Kentucky Fried Chicken, if you're not from the South. Taco Bell, Pizza Hut, and more. And he's also written a great book that we're going to dive into. It's called Old Great One, a little book about the awesome power of recognition. It's a parable. So much good stuff in this. And folks, let me tell you something. Recognition, recognition, recognition.

That's the word I want you to have burned in your head when this episode is over. So stay tuned for that. It's coming around the corner in just a few minutes. Brian Williams is one of our operating board members, and he is the chief experience officer. And he leads a creative team of more than 90 people. And we're going to discuss how do you use the disc personality profile? How do you use it specifically in meetings and in hiring people? Really practical application, because this is a tool that we've been giving away to you.

And then Coach John Falcons from All Access Stops by, and of course, free resources from our Entry leadership team and InfusionSoft. Well, it's always fun when we have Coach John Falcons from our All Access. access program with us. He is the head coach, and I'm trying to get him to wear a whistle, but Eric's producer says that if you blow the whistle in this small studio, it might make my ears bleed. I don't mind the whistle. It's the polyester bike shorts that I draw the line there. I tried that. Last year I mentioned that, and that got no traction with you at all. None whatsoever. It brings back too many painful memories for those of us. You know, grew up in the 80s.

Yes. Like knee-high tube socks. All right. You ready to go, coach? We've got a couple questions for you. Do it. All right, here we go. Antoine is up first. He says he is currently in a medium-sized family-owned business, and he's in a middle leadership position, right? So he's kind of halfway up there. And his question is this, I don't really know how to sell things like changing our company culture to the CEO. What are your thoughts? So he's in a situation where he's trying to lead up. Yep, that's right. And that's all about influence, right? He doesn't have the role, he doesn't have the title or the responsibility to call these shots himself. So he has to

lead up, as you said. And the best way to do that is not the easiest way or the quickest way, but the best way is for him to do so good at what he's responsible for to really become a linchpin in the organization that the people above him and around him start to look to him and say, how are you getting these results? Why are you doing such a phenomenal job when everybody else has got the same resources and things available to them? And when he gets leadership's ear, that's his opportunity to sell his ideas to leadership. But he shouldn't expect to be able to just barge into the conference room and say, hey, I got a good idea. Y'all ought to listen to me. That's not going to work. He has got to do this through influence. And his first step is just to

crush his part of the company with great results and then earn the ear of leadership. And those great results would also include some of this culture stuff. That's right. Yeah. If he's leading somebody, which he is, right? He's got to start to make sure those things were working in his team. Yep, that's right. All right. Very good stuff. Thanks for the question, Antoine. Up next is Elizabeth, and she says, how do you handle team members who want to learn from you? And then they want to leave to start their own business after you've taught them all this good stuff. Well, you know, what's the alternative, Ken? Yeah. Right. You know, I think it was... Not teach them. Right. Yeah. I think this quote comes from Jack Welch. Somebody asked Jack Welch, hey, what if we train all these people and they leave? And

Jack's response was, what if we don't and they stay? Right. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. I mean, so you don't have any choice. The best bet, the best insurance on this deal is to be the best place to work in town, to be a great leader, to give them the opportunity that they're looking for to allow them to experience the mission that you're on, the business that you're in at a level where they

feel like they're a part of it, where they at least emotionally feel like they own part of this thing, and they don't even get the notion to go do something else because they're so bought into where they are. You know, I can't help myself. There's a sports analogy here. Okay. All right. I want to see what you think of this.

All right. I think it's about developing the bench. It's about recruiting people because I think of college football and college basketball. Right. They have high overturn, especially the top programs, right? They may have a kid for two or three years. They go pro. Yep.

And they've got to replace them. Yeah. Well, they're not coaching those kids. They're trying to get the most out of them, trying to win. Understanding that, they might leave early. Right. It's important to develop the bench. Yeah, absolutely.

And the added fear, you're absolutely right. And the added fear in this situation is they're not going from college to pro. They're going from this side of the street to the other side of the street. Yeah, and possibly compete against me. And compete against me. But you can't live out of fear. You can't make decisions based on fear. You've got to stay on the offense here and develop great people and develop the best place to work in town.

And then if somebody does this, then you just beat them at their own game and you out-business them if they do decide to compete against you. He is our head coach. John Falcons, head of everything we're doing with All Access, an amazing community where people are getting content and coaching. And I'm telling you, it's exploding. So we want to thank Antoine. We want to thank Elizabeth for their questions. If you like to send your question in, have at it. That's why he's here.

That's why we're here. Simply send us an email to podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Question for you. Have you downloaded the 2017 Small Business Marketing? Friends Report. This is a free resource from our great friends at InfusionSoft. Now, they actually looked at a lot of trends that generates this report, especially when it comes to the digital landscape. This report is going to educate you, and then it's going to equip you so that you can do what you need to do. We're

talking about over a thousand business owners that Infusionsoft surveyed, and it was, how are you using digital advertising? What are you doing with search engines? It's amazing information. It's going to be a wake-up call for many of you, but it's all good news because it's going to get you to where you need to be in 2017, so you aren't behind. Now, it's absolutely free. You go to infusionsoft.com slash 2017 trends. Infusionsoft.com slash 2017 trends. So many of you have downloaded this great tool. Don't miss it. Infusionsoft.com slash 2017 trends. The other great resource that is absolutely free. All caps. F. R-E. Why wouldn't you kick the tire on this stuff? Can I just say this real quick? If you're listening to this

podcast, thank you. We do not take your ears for granted. Okay? We're very serious about your ears. But why wouldn't you just take this free stuff and look at it? If you don't like it, if you can't use it and you delete it, I'm telling you more of you, I'm looking at the stats. I'm looking at it. A lot of you are downloading these free tools. But it's nowhere close to the amount of people that are listening. What are you doing? Is this a guilt trip? No.

It's a challenge. The Entree Leadership tool that's absolutely free this month. And it is gold. Absolute gold. It's our disc cheat sheet. When I say disc, if you're new to the podcast, you haven't heard us talk about this. This is the disc personality profile. And our cheat sheet helps you unlock the secrets of how your team ticks.

Again, we've been talking about this all month. And a few weeks ago, this is really cool. Eric the producer ran into one of our listeners. His name is Tim Perkins. And Tim said, hey, I'd like to hear from more Ramsey Solutions leaders. So, of course, Eric, the producer is a man of the people. He produces this podcast for you. So we got together and we said, okay, who do we have from our Ramsey Solutions leadership team

who really understands this disc personality profile and how effective it is as an amazing tool? Brian Williams. I talked about him at the top of the podcast. He's our chief experience officer. He's on our operating board that works with Dave Ramsey and the rest of the operating board members to make large decisions as they steer our company. And this guy gets it. He knows how to use it specifically in this conversation you're about to hear.

And trust me, this may be as valuable as anything else on this podcast. He helps you understand how do we use it in the hiring process so that you assemble the right team. Two, he talks about how do you use it as a guide for yourself in a meeting? Super practical stuff. Here it is, my conversation with Brian. Well, folks, this is exciting. Good friend of mine, Brian Williams, and our chief experience officer at Ramsey Solutions. And incidentally, an operating board member, we've talked a little bit about the structure on the podcast before.

And I wanted Brian to come in because we've been given out this disc tool. But we don't want to just give you a resource. We want to apply it. We want it to come alive. And so this is a unique conversation. We're going to dive in. So first, welcome to the studio. Thank you.

I'm glad to be here. Full disclosure. Brian, give them your disc profile. This is the context. Give them your disc profile. Okay, so I'm off the chart S. Probably 90% S, high 80D, almost no eye and middle of the road seat. All right.

Now we get that. Now explain how that. What does that look like? So high D, high S is very schizophrenic. Seriously, because it shouldn't fit on the scale the way that it is. it is because I'm either Dr. Juckler or Mr. Hyde. I'm either like running rough shot over my team or I'm feeling bad about it and I'm backtracking. I'm like, oh gosh, all the feelings.

So it's between those two depending on high stress or just more like collaborative type feel. Right. Okay. So that's context for who Brian is. Now real quickly, give them an overview of what you do as chief experience officer. You're really one of our leaders, top leaders on all things creativity. I'm told my notes say that's 94 people to put. some real skin on it. Is that correct? That's right. CXO is a relatively new role here. I've been

the creative director, senior executive creative director for years here. Oversee all the visual designers, the video production, all of our content writers, and a creative product management team. So yeah, all in is about 94 team members. Okay, so I want to maybe have you address a myth that all creatives are wired the same. Myth? Definitely. Or is that true? No, that's definitely a myth. I would say dominantly, yes, we live in the land of high-sies and high seas, but I've got some strong high-d-de-le leaders and high D executors that are on the creative team. And those are the guys that are going to drive the lane and get stuff done. All right.

Let's, before we get into a little bit more disc profile context, I just want you to share with our leaders that are listening in here, maybe a couple of things on how to best lead creatives. If you were going to give maybe just one or two things that you know universally, you need to kind of know this to lead creatives well. I think the myth is that they want to just paint pretty pictures and make beautiful things. If you really want to get to the heart of creative is really tying the results to what their action is. And it's, it kind of comes out of the blue and people don't get that. But everybody wants to

have value in what they do. It's just, it's a different type of format. Creative is just visual problem solving. And so you're making something to solve a problem. Does that equate to results? And if you can, if you can tie those back together and have that conversation with your creative team, and you can, you can, you can run miles. Okay. We're going to do some context. on the disc. Bucket one is using the disc in interviews. So I know went through the process myself almost three years ago. I filled, I did the disc profile. You all had the information before I went through my litany of interviews. How do you use it best? I look at team formation and creation. And so the interpersonal dynamics of how a team is going to play. And so if you've got,

you know, four or five different team members that are all like off the chart high ass, high C, like they're very slow to make decisions. They're very much about the feelings and the process. And throw someone that's a high, D, high, high, eye, in there that's not mature. That's one of the kickers is how mature is someone in their personality? That's going to just completely

change the chemistry of the team. And so by knowing what that person's going to bring, you're gauging then, how self-aware are they? How are they going to react with others? Because that's really going to change the dynamics of the team,

and that's going to take your efficiency down, a pretty large margin. So it can work when you have that mix, but it's just going to have to make sure you dial in on the candidate to go, is he or she mature enough? Is he or she disciplined enough? Is he or she teachable so that when that personality may flare and spark, then it's not going to wreck the team.

Yeah, absolutely. I think to have a team that's all the same would be really, really poor from a leadership standpoint. But knowing where those rough spots are going to be, where conflict is going to come from, and then how you are going to lead through the conflict that will happen, whether everyone's the same disk profile or not, but you need to know, like, what kind of course correction are you going to need for that person or for the team in general,

and you can't treat everyone the same. Yeah, and it's important, too, from a team dynamic to know the triggers. Absolutely. If you're a high D, high eye like me, people like me are going to have to just be aware that you may do or say some things that is not maybe intention the way it is,

but it is going to set a trigger and it can do some damage. You've got to be aware. It creates an awareness. Yeah. And from a leadership standpoint, you know what kind of course correction you could have with that team member. Like, from me to you, like, we could be very blunt. Yeah.

And you wouldn't walk out of the room with hurt feelings. Right. Now, someone that's more on the opposite end of the spectrum, like the whole like course correction sandwich and how are we going to deal with your feelings? That's good. And like, no, no, you're really good at this. But we got to fix this thing. That is good. Okay.

Before we let you go. Okay. Now let's look at the second bucket. And that is how do we use the knowledge we can get from the disc to have more effective meetings or engage? So that's the other side of the disc profile is communication. So if I'm going to present to Dave, who's off the chart D, like I know bullet points, small, like small sentences, but I need to have my details behind me. Like I'm not just going to like throw in the highlights because if a question's asked, I need to have all the things together. Now if I'm going to go sit with Mark Floyd, our chief financial officer who's high C, I need all the processes, all the details, all the communication up front before he started.

to even make a decision. And so it's just knowing what the person that you're presenting to or having a meeting with and really targeting your communication towards, that's going to change how you communicate to that person. And that's why we put them on the walls. And that's why you walk through it at any office, any cube, you know, like what that person, how they're going to receive information best. And so you can target your communication style to them as opposed to just, well, this is me.

So this is how I communicate. That's so good. Okay. Final thought. Just encourage or challenge these leaders that are. listening in here, they're going, okay, I get this because this was super applicable. But challenge them on how this can really grow them as a leader, grow the leaders they're developing and their team.

I think one of the things that we fall into when we first start playing with a disc profile is like you are either a D or an I or an S or a C. And none of that is true. Like there's so much variable and so many differences between that. And that's why there's a scale on all four of those measures. No one is 100% of one thing and 0% of the other three. And so trying to get a little bit of a measure of. on what makes up that whole person

and how no two people are the same because then that maturity and the self-awareness come on top. So don't put people in a bucket because of what their disc profile is. It becomes a crutch if you lean on it too much and you're missing the individuality of that person. And so use it as a tool, but not the end-all, be-all of what makes a person.

That is so good. He is Brian Williams, our chief experience officer. And again, folks, we tell you about these resources. We give these resources away. Okay? They're free. But I think sometimes you hear me talk about it every episode and you go, all right, he's giving us this resource. We wanted Brian to come in and just give you some real world application.

And I got to tell you, that was fantastic stuff. Brian, thanks for hanging out with us. Man, thanks for having me. Big thanks for Brian Williams for hanging out with us. And again, I talked about the tool. So here's how you get the disc cheat sheet. You can print it off, pass it around, do whatever you want with it. It's absolutely free.

You can text the word, ELDisc. That's all one word, ELDisc. text that to 33444. That's 33444. Or if you don't like the text option, not a problem. Eric the producer has got a link for you in this episode. Show Notes at entreleadership.com slash podcast. Well, big kudos to Eric the producer.

The kid's phenomenal. There's a millennial. He's crushing it. And you got to love when he says, all right, Ken, who are some big fish you want to harpoon? because honestly, if it's really big fish, you're going to have to use a harpoon. When was the last time you heard anybody say harpoon? It's been a long time.

And so he said to me, Kent, who would you like to get? I said, well, here's a couple people I'd like to harpoon. And so one of them was a guy by the name of David Novak. And David is big time. He's big time, and you may not know he's big time until you hear his resume. Now, again, this guy's resume is so long that I could take literally 10 minutes to break it down for you. I touched on it at the top, but the guy is the former CEO and executive chairman of YUM brands. Now, you're going, I don't know what YUM brands are.

I don't know what that is. Big deal. Well, how about Kentucky Fried Chicken? How about Pizza Hut? Taco Bell? Oh, yeah. How about $13 billion? in revenues in 2015.

I mean, the list goes on and on and on. Big time returns to shareholders. And let's just talk about the food for a moment. Let's just be honest with you. I grew up with finger licking chicken. Now, I want to give equal opportunity promotion here. Chick-fil-A is phenomenal chicken as well. But I'm going to tell you right now,

you slap some Chick-fil-A chicken tenders in front of me. and then you slap the original recipe KFC chicken in front of me. I'm going, original recipe KFC. I'm just going to tell you, that's where I'm going. And then maybe for dinner that night, I'm going to order myself a pizza from Pizza Hut. I don't know about the Taco Bell. But the bottom line is that this guy's a big time leader. Here's what I love about this guy.

You're talking about a guy that has led thousands upon thousands upon thousands of people. And some of your small business leaders right now, you're going, I can't even comprehend that. I'm having a hard time leading the four knuckleheads in my warehouse right now. I get it. But what we're going to talk about is super applicable to you with the four team members. This guy, after leading so many people figured out that recognition is gold. It's the lifeblood of your organization. Why? All of us desire to be valued. All of us. All of us, us want to be significant. We've talked about that theme over and over and over again. So this book, Oh, Great One, little book, it's a parable. And we're going to break it down. Now, we don't

get into the parable because it's a parable. So you can enjoy the story. But we're going to break this down. And I'm telling you right now, if you're in a place where you cannot write, you better go back and listen to this because recognition, if you're not doing this well, you are getting lapped. And your people are dying for you to do it. Here is my conversation with David Nova. Well, David, this is a pleasure to have you with us. Really excited about talking with you in your latest book is a parable. And I love parables. I think they're great teaching tools. The book is entitled Old Great One, a little story about the awesome power of recognition. Now, we're going to talk a lot about the content and so much more with you. But I'd love for you

to just give us a brief summary. If someone has never heard of the book before, how would you describe it in your own words? Well, one of the things that I learned through, out my career is that people are starved for recognition. I was blessed enough to run a global company. We're in 120 countries, but wherever I went, I found that people were craving recognition, and frankly, there wasn't enough of it. I've really coined the fact that there's a global recognition deficit out there. So what I tried to do in our company was I tried to make recognition the number one value we would have to recognize performance and to have fun. and we had some amazing success with it.

I was very passionate about doing recognition and doing recognition in fun ways. So one of the things I wanted to do was to really share the joy of recognizing others and help others realize that if they use this powerful tool, recognition, they can really use it as a catalyst for results and make the lives of other people better. So that's why I wrote, Oh, Great One. and it's basically a parable of experiences that I had in my life. The main character is Jeff Jenkins. He gets in a situation where his father passes away,

and they owned Happy Face Toy Company. They had 51% of the stock, and the board of directors was basically ready to sell the company because it wasn't doing well. Well, Jeff doesn't really want to give up on the company, and he convinces the board to give him a chance to run the company for a year, and if he doesn't get results, and they can move on.

So the first thing he does is he wants to understand why aren't they getting results? Now, the name of this company is Happy Face Toy Company, okay? And what he learns by visiting the Cleveland Plant is that he walks in and he realizes that no one's happy there. No one feels motivated. No one feels inspired to go to work and do a good job. No one feels like they're listened to. And as a result, the company was underperforming.

So he makes the decision to turn the job. the company around by focusing on recognition as his main tool. A few minutes ago, you said something that I want to lock in on, and I think it'll give us great context for the greater subject here. And you said that there is a global recognition deficit, a phrase you like to use. I think you're absolutely right. What I want to ask you to articulate for our listeners is why you think that's the case. I don't think it's necessarily always, or maybe not even a predominant negative reason as to why that exists. But I want you to weigh in on that. Why is there such a huge recognition deficit? We've done a lot of research in our company, OGO Enterprise. We've learned

the like over almost 85% of people feel like their supervisor doesn't recognize it for what they do. And you ask yourself, well, why is that? Well, I think the real reason is that supervisors are afraid to recognize their people because if they do, people will stop working as hard. People feel like as the boss, you've got to keep putting the pressure on and keep driving for more and more performance. And believe it or not, they feel that if they recognize people, people may not work as hard, which is unbelievable to me. The second thing is, is people feel like if they recognize someone in their company, the other people are going to want to get recognized as well. Well, that's crazy because you want to have people working hard to get recognized.

And as long as you recognize the behaviors you know that will get results, you're going to show everybody that you value what they do and other people want to get recognized as well so what we found is that basically sixty percent of people will tell you that there is motivated by recognition as they are for as making money and almost half those people say hey listen you know if I get that recognition I'm gonna put more into my job as I go to work so you know I think that recognition really pays in a number of ways

the other thing Ken that we found and it's been researched by many companies, is there's two reasons why people don't stay in a company. Very rarely do you switch jobs, no matter how big or small the company may be, because of money. The reason why you switch jobs comes down to basically two simple facts. Number one, you don't feel appreciated for what you do. And that's why recognition is such an important value to build into your company,

no matter how big or how small it may be. And number two is they don't get a lot of, along with their boss. That's why I believe that the real model that you have to have to be successful today is to be a coach, not a boss. And you want to help people achieve their potential. And you want them to know deep down that that's what your goal is. So much there.

Okay. I'm going to pull out so much. We're going to stay right there, folks, where David took us. I want to go back to this idea of recognition. And I think it's important for leaders to not just hear what you said. but to understand that every human being on the planet has an inherent desire to matter. That's what fuels the fact that recognition matters so much, correct? Yeah, I ran operations for Pepsi, and one of the things that I did as the chief operating officers,

I went out in the field. I left on Monday, came back on Saturday, but I would always have these morning roundtables in the plants and at the distribution centers. And one time I'm in St. Louis, Missouri, and I'm meeting with our rally, salesman. There's about 10 of them and we're sitting around a table and I'm asking about merchandising. I'm asking who does good merchandising, what can we learn, what do we learn lately and everybody starts raving about this guy named Bob. Well Bob is the best merchandiser I've ever seen. He taught me more in five hours than I learned my first

three years. Boy he can go in and he can work with customers. He's amazing. Well, everybody's heaping all this praise on Bob and I look down at the end of the table and Bob's crying. And I say, Bob, why are you crying? He said, I've been in this company for 47 years. I'm retiring in two weeks, and I didn't know people felt this way about me. And I said to myself, man, as a leader of a company or any job that I have from now on, I'm going to make sure that the bobs in the world are really recognized for what they do. And you know, Ken, what I've found as as I traveled around the world is that there are Bob stories everywhere. You know, people want recognition.

They deserve recognition. And one of the things about recognition is it shows people that you're watching. You know, it shows that you care. And I remember talking to Colin Powell, and he used to work in a Pepsi plant when he was a kid. And here he is, the secretary of the state at the time, or just retired his secretary of state. And he was talking about this experience he had in his Pepsi Bob. plant. He said, you know, I mopped up the syrup every day, David. Every day I mopped up that syrup. And, you know, at the end of the summer, the foreman comes over and he says, son, I've

watched you every single day. You've done such a great job. You haven't left until those floors are spick and span. And he said, you know what? That's when I learned the power of recognition. It says that someone's watching. And, you know, and as a boss or a coach, more importantly a coach, you know, by using recognition, you can really let people know you value the behaviors that you know are going to get results. That's right. And it just simply put, it allows people to realize that they matter. That is absolutely the lowest common dominion.

Got to hit that one first. All right. Now, you just touched on it again, and you said it a few minutes ago, this idea of recognition. Now, we've got a lot of entrepreneurs, go-getters, and they're like you and I, David, in that they don't like all this. Everybody gets a trophy. I got to walk around and make everybody feel good about themselves. That's not what you're talking about because you said it.

You said, we've got to recognize results. So it's not just making everybody feel like, oh, everybody gets a participation ribbon. It's about recognizing the right results. That has a compound positive effect. Right. You have to recognize, Ken, both the good behavior and the bad behavior. Okay, the good behavior. is obviously the accomplishments that are going to build your business.

Those are the right things that you want to reward. And I've always found that when you catch people doing the right things, then you recognize it for it. You're basically pouring fuel on the fire. I mean, you get people inspired to do more and more. Now, the other thing you have to do as a leader is if you have somebody that isn't pulling their weight, you have to have the courage to confront them and give them the proper feedback and tell them what they need to do to get on the ship.

And so it's a two-way street. There's nothing worse than false recognition or recognition that is just recognition for recognition's sake. It has to stand for something. But to me, there are certain behaviors that you want to have happen in your company. Let's say you have a small company and you want to drive innovation. Well, as the leader of that company, why don't you find ways to recognize innovation every time you see it? And what I've used recognition for, and what I talk about in the book, is a way not only to drive performance, but also to create a fun work environment where people want to contribute.

So the recognition I've always done has been very fun and very personal. For example, when I was president of KFC, my recognition award was this rubber chicken. I'd give away these rubber chickens that all the people that I thought were doing great things. Like we were focused on quality. So I'd go into a store. I'd see that there had been a cook there who'd worked there for 18 years. He'd made great original recipe. I would go up to him and say, John, man, you are what this business is all about.

You make quality number one, and our customers love your chicken. I appreciate all you want to do. I'd give them the rubber chicken. I'd number it. I'd write on the rubber chicken what I appreciated about him and take a picture with them, and I'd say, I'm going to send you this picture. But more importantly, I'm going to put your picture in my office because you're the person that's really making our business tick.

And then I also gave them $100 because you couldn't eat a rubber chicken. But I had fun with it. I had fun with it. And then when I became president of Pizza, I gave away a cheesehead. You know the Green Bay Packer Cheeseheads? I gave those away. And then when I became the CEO of Young Brands, I gave away the walk the talk teeth. And I would catch people walking the talk on behalf of our customers.

And I would write on each one, number each one, take the picture. and tell them I'm going to put their picture in my office. Now when you go in my office, Ken, you will see that my walls are lined from floor to ceiling with people that I recognized all around the world. And then people said, well, what happens when you run out a wall space? And I said, well, I'm going to put them on the ceiling. And that's exactly what I did.

But let's face it, no matter what business you're in, how big or how small it is, your formula for success has to be, you've got to build your people capability first. You get the right people doing the right things, then you're going to satisfy more customers, and then you're going to make more money. Too often in business, people start focus on, I want to make money, but they don't know how you get there. Well, getting the right people and getting them motivated is the way how you get there. And that's why recognition is such a powerful tool.

All right. Let's roll up our sleeves a little bit here because you talk about this in the book. And I think there's a lot of people out there who need some practical advice here. I've not done a good job, David, right, of recognizing my team, I'm buying into what you're saying. How do I do it? And one of the things that you suggest is to do it on the spot, regular. Don't always wait for a weekly or a monthly. If you see it, recognize it on the spot.

I want you to talk about the power of that and why that's a good first step to be always looking about if it's almost like you get your radar up. Oh, absolutely. And nothing is better than spontaneous recognition that comes straight from the heart. because when you find somebody that's doing something great that's something that inspires you then that's when you want to say hey listen Ken that is fantastic what you just did you develop this new approach that's going to save us money and it's something that we can spread with every every team member that we have you know do it on the spot a lot of times what I would do at meetings is

I get inspired by an idea that somebody had or something that somebody had done I would get out and go back to my office, go get a YM Award, and come back in and say, I've got to give you this right now because it was so impressive. I also had these little pins that I always carried around with me, which were customer maniac pins. And so when I went into our restaurants and if I saw somebody who was really making our customers happy, I'd go over and give them a pen and tell them, you know, you're doing a fantastic job. It was a small thing, spontaneous, but that's how you really make things take off and catch fire in your organization. You've got to do it every day, not episodically, but every day when you see something.

Yeah, now I love that you use the term catch fire, because I think this is true, but I want you to verify this or correct me. But isn't it true that when the leader begins to do what you just described on a regular basis and it becomes habit for the leader and he or she is recognizing people spontaneously in a fun way, does it not begin to have those people who have been recognized? And if they are leading or working with other people, they intuitively begin to recognize others. And you've got this wildfire. One of the things that I've learned, Ken, is that every leader casts a shadow. It's the shadow of leadership. You know, if you walk in and you look at everybody and they're down, and their morale's bad and they're frowning, go look in the mirror.

You're probably down. You're probably frowning. People do what the leader does. And what happened in my organization was that once a lot of the world, I started doing recognition, people saw the power of it, and then they developed their own individual recognition awards. And then they started doing recognition. And in fact, what happened is this took off to the point where everybody, every leader,

above store leader in our company is supposed to have their own individual recognition award and give it out when they see the good performance and have fun doing it. And I think that really created a culture and a work environment that allowed us to attract the very best people in our company. All right. Now, I want to talk about this idea of implementation. So, you know, you mentioned you've obviously run very large brands and businesses, but we've got a lot of small business owners that are listening in.

It doesn't cost a lot of money to do this, one. And two, it can be fun. It can be, whatever you want to do it. But I want you to encourage people, how do they begin this process? You know, if they've not done it well, what are some practical? steps to begin making this thing come alive? Find a way to make it personal. Come up with your own personal recognition award that reinforces the number one thing you're trying to do to get results in your company. It could be

productivity, it could be process improvement, it could be innovation, but come up with some personalized way that you could recognize the people who are really getting that done. Because this way you're going to reinforce the strategy that you have. One of the thing is really interesting is you don't have to have a big company to do this. In fact, I'd say that the small companies have the best opportunity to use recognition to make sure that they really seed the kind of culture that they want because you can control the way how you grow. You're not so big that you can't reach out and touch the people.

You know, you can use recognition to touch everyone in your organization and the smaller you are, the easier it is to do it, but you can certainly get people really excited about the growth prospects that you have. The other thing about it is once you create that culture of recognition and people feeling valued for what they do, as you grow, it allows you to grow better and grow bigger because you're growing with the right core values and the right culture that's going to get you to where you want to go. You know, I study a lot of companies, Ken, and a lot of people will tell you these companies have great processes or they have great innovation, but you know the great companies? You know what they talk about the most? They talk about

their work environment and the culture that they have. And I think as a small business leader or, you know, as you're building your company, making the culture your number one priority is the biggest single thing that you can do. And know that deep down, everybody wants recognition. Everybody wants recognition. That's right. I want to ask you about you, you touched on culture and that's such a huge topic. I don't want to get away from that. Again, I want you to advise, because again, you're talking about leading humongous companies where I think culture has got to be so much more complex and difficult. But for the small business owner who right now may be realizing, you know what, I don't know that I can even define our culture. I've not done a great job,

maybe of being intentional in creating a culture. If you were to sit down with them and say, all right, we've got to get your culture healthy, or we've got to just begin. to create an intentional culture, what advice would you give them? I would think, first of all, about what behaviors are going to drive the success of your organization? So what we did, for example, is we looked at what were the behaviors that happened in all of our great restaurants? You know, when we walked into our best restaurants, what kind of work environment, what kind of culture do we have? And we found that there was customer focus, there was positive energy, there was teamwork, there was accountability, there was recognition. So we made those the behaviors that we wanted to reinforce in our company.

You know, a lot of times, you know, culture sounds very way up there, you know, like something that you might get to when you have a chance to get to it. But I think that you need to simplify by identifying the behaviors that are going to get you the results that you look for and write those down. And then, you know, try to build an understanding and awareness of every employee that you have that these are the things that we do that make us unique and make us better and make us have more fun than anybody else. Because we win together. You know, we grow the business, we grow each other, and we win together. So, you know, I think the big thing is, is, you know, how you always hear about companies, values and all that. That sounds such, you know, that sounds very, you know, amorphous, you know, high, high end kind of stuff.

No, just get down to the brass tax. What behaviors do you want to have happen in your company? And then write those things down and then start driving that deep in your company. Be intentional about it. One of the things I think always helps is if you can get people together, and have shared experiences where you see the importance of driving a specific behavior deep in your organization. David, you mentioned the word behaviors, and I think that's so important. And I want to ask you a question that we at Entree leadership here at our live events,

through our coaching with all actions when we're talking to leaders all around the country, this is a normal fear. And I'd love for you to address this. And here's the issue. You've got a good performer, meaning their results are strong. but their attitudes, their behaviors are not strong, meaning they're actually not good for the culture. Everybody knows they're a problem, including the leader, but they're delivering results. And what that does is it creates fear for the leader that if I reprimand them or remove them for the good of the culture,

it's going to hurt my profits and they end up putting up with this person. I'm sure you're familiar with this. I'm sure you've led through this. I think this is important when you talk about values and culture. This is something that leaders face all the time, and it's difficult for them to get rid of a bad behavior person when they've got good results. What would you say to them? Well, I think first of all, leadership is a privilege. As the leader, you have to set the standards for the organization in terms of whatever your product quality is and whatever you expect from your people.

if you let your standard slip, basically you're saying to the rest of the company that you don't have any standards. And so it really hurt you. Now, one of the things I've found is that, you know, jobs are important. People want jobs. People need jobs. And if you've got a good job and you're a talented person, you're going to be able to get the performers you need to have. So you need to have confidence in yourself that this person, if he or she can't get the business results, the right way, you're a good enough leader that you're going to be able to recruit somebody

that's going to do at least a better job as good or if not better job than the person that you're replacing. But I've always found that if you let that person hang on, that person ultimately will become a cancer in your organization. You'll outgrow them and you'll lose good people because you don't take out the bad apples. So, you know, I think sometimes, yes, it's painful. but the biggest thing you can do is confront that person, make that person self-aware about their performance, coach him or her, give them the best possible feedback you can,

and then hold them accountable for changing. And if they don't change, get somebody else. You know, one of the things I did for a leadership program that I did in our company was I interviewed John Wood. And I talked to him about what his standards were. And, you know, one of the things that he did is, you know, he measured performance all the time. And he said, you know, I had this one player. He was by far and away the best player I had on the team. But you know what?

When the team was out there, because of this guy's egotomaniacal kind of attitude, we didn't do as well as a team. So the best thing I had, the best ally of coach has, is the bench. So I put this guy in the bench. Well, he comes to me and he goes, you know, come. coach, you know I'm the best player on the team. Why aren't you playing me? And he said, well, the statistics, when you're on the court, you're not making a team better. And until you make a team better, you're going to sit on the bench.

And then he smiled, that John Wooden smile. And then he looked up at me, he said, you know what? The next year, Sidney Wicks was the best forward in college basketball. That's right. Wow. That's a great story. And so true. So you have to coach.

You know, if Sidney Wicks, he didn't have to. sit on the bench, didn't get that feedback, he wouldn't have changed. And if he didn't change, you know, he would never play that much. And the team, obviously, if he was out there on the court doing what he's doing, ultimately he was going to hurt the team unless he changed. And that's how you've got to look at it. But be confident that you have something to offer. All right, I want to flip this for a minute because I love a wrap, but I want to go

another direction on this idea of recognition because it occurs to me as I was listening to David, that a lot of businesses have relationships with vendors. Obviously, if you look at all the restaurants that you manage, you're buying bread from somebody. There's so much, even in a large business like, you know, Pizza Hut or Kentucky Fried Chicken, you've got all these vendors that are so vital to your success. How does recognition play in those outside relationships that we've been talking about the internal effects and benefits of good recognition? How can, we leaders be using recognition with some of those key partners or vendors that are a vital part of what we do? Well, I think you make them a part of your team and you treat them just like

you would treat somebody on your team. And, you know, we always had recognition events for our suppliers that were doing the great jobs. We always, we would have spontaneous recognition with our suppliers as well. I mean, if we had some suppliers come in and help us with product innovation. You know, we do the same kind of things with externally as we did internally. Because, you know, I'll tell you what, if you really want to get suppliers, you know, working for you, treat them great. You know, there's nothing like getting, you know, because a lot of people don't. A lot of people just treat vendors like vendors. You know, I think if you, if you view your vendors as vendors versus partners, you know, then you got a problem. You need to look

in a mirror there. You know, you need to see. your vendors as allies and partners that can help you succeed. Love it. All right, before I let you go, I'd love to ask this question of our guests. And so I'm going to put you on the spot here. If you could have lunch with every one of our listeners, we're talking about hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people listening in, and you could have lunch with each one of them and encourage them leader to leader.

You've been there. You've led at a very high level. You're passionate about helping leaders. And you can only share one thing to encourage their head or their heart, or maybe both, what would you say to them? I would say believe in all people. Start with a deep down belief that everybody on your team wants to do good and that people do not go to work every day,

wanting to be a part of something mediocre. They want to be a part of something great. So create a vision and an approach for your company that leads you to greatness and get your people involved in terms of helping you make that happen. and let them know how important they are to you in terms of achieving that dream. And the more you can do this together so that it becomes our vision versus my vision, and our plans versus my plans, you know, I would say that's the key. The leader has got to go from me to we.

You've got to change the pronouns from I to we. And, you know, I think that's the most important thing that you can do is a leader, is take people with you so that you can. really get results. I wrote, Oh, Great One, because I really get to the fundamentals that can drive any organization. And, you know, I think recognizing the value of all people and what they can bring to the party is key. And, you know, of all the things that I've done in my career, there's nothing that I've done that's been more rewarding to me than writing, oh, great one, this little story about the awesome power of recognition, because I have received so many letters,

from small businesses, big businesses, all walks of life. This book has just absolutely motivated people to really understand the superpower that we all have, which is to recognize others and believe in others, trust in positive intentions, and really get that people capability number one. It is so good, folks. He is David Novak. Again, the book is, oh, great one, a little story about the awesome power of recognition. I'm going to tell you something.

I don't have any guest on that I don't recommend, so we already know that. But this book is such an easy read, parable form. I'd get it with your whole team. Read it together, talk about it, come up with a discussion group, certainly when you're in smaller teams, small businesses. I think this is such an effective conversation starter. David, we appreciate you. Obviously, have a lot going on in your life, but we're so, so much better for you hanging out with us today. Well, thank you, Ken.

I do believe leadership is a privilege. I feel honored that you'd have me on the show, and thank you very much for your recognition. I think what you just talked about, though, is really the key. You know, create shared experiences with your team. I think this book can be a shared experience. I'm not hawking the book for any personal game. All the proceeds go to go to type 1 diabetes,

a disease my wife has had since she's seven. But, you know, what I am trying to do is make the world a better place, make business a better place, help people get better results. And that's what I think, oh, great one, a little story about the awesome power recognition can do for your listeners. I endorse everything you said on that, and you're a good man. You are making big changes, and we appreciate that. Thank you, Ken.

Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that again. I mean what I'm telling you when I say that recognition is the thing that as leaders so many times we overlook. And it's more than just the out of boy. Sometimes the out of boy, the out of girl in a private moment or maybe in front of their peers is enough. but I think there needs to be specific strategic habits built around this idea of recognition. Hope that added value to you. Again, the book is Old Great One, a little book about the awesome power of recognition.

We have a link to the book in the show notes of this episode, and again, you can get it wherever books are sold. All right, folks, one question for you that I want you to really soak on. Who do you need to recognize? Who? It's that simple. That could be multiple people, but I want you to ask yourself the question, who do I need to recognize? Who needs to hear from me that they're killing it? Who needs to hear from me that they're adding tremendous value to our organization? And let me give you one other challenge. When you think about this, think about it in your personal life as well. professional life, personal life. Who needs to get your recognition?

I looked at the calendar this morning, folks, and I'm getting excited. I was in the month of May, and I am thinking towards the end of May, oh boy, going to be in Orlando, Florida at the J.W. Marriott with some of the most amazing leaders that I ever get to hang out with. That's you, people like you. This Entry Leadership Summit, I'm so glad that Daniel Tarting the team launched this idea. We weren't sure would it work. How is it going to work? And it's been a smashing success. We've been telling you a lot about it. I don't need to keep going through this, but the

lineup is unbelievable. Dave Ramsey has invited John Maxwell, Robert Hershevik from Shark Tank. If you're not familiar with that show, you can check him out. Lou Holtz, Pat Lynchione and Simon Seneca, all joining us. Chris Hogan and Christy Wright and myself will also be there. Well, it's going to be big fun. Thrill, thrilled, thrilled about this event. If you'd like to learn more, sign up We have a special podcast rate. You can text Summit 17, Summit 17 to 33444-4, or just go get the link in our show notes. That's at entreleadership.com slash podcast. Well, folks, that's going to do it for this episode.

I want to say big thanks to David Novak, Brian Williams, and always two on behalf of, Erica, the producer, our engineer Willarder, and the entire Entree leadership team, we want to say thank you to you folks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.