EntreLeadership - #207: Zoro the Drummer—Why the World Needs Your Gifts 

Episode Date: June 5, 2017

As business owners and leaders, we have a deep desire to do work that matters. World-class musician, entrepreneur and author Zoro shares his keys for unlocking your limitless potential. Hear how attitude, learning, practicing and the power of proximity can help you maximize your talents and make the most impact on your business and in the world around you. entreleadership.com/podcast EntreLeadership Core Value Tool Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Broadcasting from the Music City, this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining our conversation. Our feature conversation is with a guy by the name of Zorro. Now, I know immediately images are conjuring up in your head and you're going, okay, Ken has officially had too much allergy medicine.

But no, I haven't. Zorro is a real guy. He's Zorro, the drummer, if you will. And this is a special episode for us because the topic is so important, this idea of maximizing your full potential. You hear me say that a lot. I'm deeply passionate about helping people do that. And when you run into a kindred spirit like Zorro, it becomes really, really special. We had a lot of fun.

And it's also a special episode because I've asked Eric the producer to join me. in studio. He's rarely on this side of the glass, ladies and gentlemen. But Will the engineer is over there and he's in control of all the buttons, so nothing will run off the tracks. But the reason I have Eric the producer in here is because he brought Zorro, the drummer, to us with a deep personal connection. And Eric is a young, millennial, he's a stud, excellence is at the top of Eric's mind and everything that he does. And so I wanted Eric to come in and tell us who Zorro is. Because he's not just a drummer, Eric. Correct. But he's also somebody who is one of your closest mentors. Absolutely. I started 10 years ago just drum lessons with Zorro and I pursued the career of being a drummer. But the foundation Zorro set for

me, just his values, teaching me to be a businessman in an unconventional way, unconventional industry. and then what I'm doing now, so much of it is rooted in Zora's teachings. So, I mean, I'm a product of what this guy lives out. And Zora's not your typical drummer either. Yeah, give folks an idea of some of the artists he's played with. Oh, boy, here we go. Lenny Kravitz, Bobby Brown, Frankie Valley,

in four seasons. I learned about that from Jersey Boys. Yeah. The new edition, which I was not familiar with. Sadly, I didn't miss my generation. I did not know who Bobby Brown was. I now know. You do now.

But you did not initially. My prerogative. That's right. That is your prerogative, by the way. Many more. Jody Watley, Philip Bailey of Earthwood and Fire. That is a personal favorite. Sean Lennon, Lisa, Marie Presley, and many others.

But the list, it's unreal. And so this guy comes into your life and literally begins to mentor you with drums. But I love the story you have told me about, Zora, that the first lesson you show up ready to bang on the drums. And it didn't go that way. Yeah, we drove from Cincinnati. Nashville for a lesson. Yeah.

At two-hour lesson and we didn't play. Yeah. He just instilled principles and talked about faith and how I need to grow myself. And I was a little shocked and I gave it another try and it turned out to be this 10-year relationship with him as my mentor. And just the path, I mean, Zorro is a master marketer. He has worked with all these different artists and the way he has done things on social and paved his own path there as an entrepreneur.

Well, I started 16 teaching drum lessons. I was featuring a little USA Today article on young entrepreneurs in the down economy. And it was a really cool thing because Zora is teaching me to have her drum business. That was my job until I worked here and did music. Zorro, folks, is a great spirit. And Eric's producer can tell you, I had never met him before. He walks in here. And I think we probably talked spontaneously to the point of almost combustion for about 20 minutes before we actually turn the mics on.

and we just connected immediately. In fact, Eric had to say, guys, we need to start recording. We just couldn't stop. It was a spontaneous combustion in this little sound booth here, if you will. And, boy, I loved him, and I think you're going to love him. So here is my conversation with Zora. Well, Zora, this is a real treat for me, because we have discovered, before we started recording,

that we certainly have a lot in common as it relates to the way we think about making the most of our lives. And so we're going to dive right in there. We have so many people who are listening in right now, and they certainly have this burning desire to matter. They have a burning desire to make the most of their life. And so you embody that. You really do. So I want to go back.

Before we get into your career, let's go back. How early was it in your life when you discovered, I've got a real passion to make the most out of my life? And then it develops into this beyond being this world-class drummer. You're passionate about helping people find their call. But when did it become a flicker for you? I think when I was about six or seven years old, I sensed a few things. Number one, I sensed that I had a propensity in leaning towards rhythm. And I grew up in South Central L.A.

I grew up straight out of Compton, like the T-shirt. I could wear it and it's for real. So that's where I grew up. And I grew up in an underprivileged home with a mother who raised seven. seven brothers and sisters, seven children with no father. We were dirt poor and lived in abject poverty. At one point in our life, we lived in a 1962 Chevrolet Nova and a 13-foot trailer. But even in midst of all that, I felt this drawing and this leaning towards rhythm.

And so I began the most natural way you'd begin if you didn't have any money. I started off with some oatmeal empty boxes, some almond roca cans, and some Tupperware. Literally, and those were my drums with my hands, and I would play on the street corner. in Compton, California and turned my radio on, my transistor radio, and turn it on to something funky. And the rhythm was just naturally, that's when I already felt like a draw towards that. Wow. Unbelievable. Let me ask you a question.

It's a little bit off topic, but I think a lot of people will resonate with this question. I have noticed that so many world-class talents have come out of Compton. Yeah. That's not a coincidence, is it? And if it's not, why? What's going on there? Is it just the talent rises to the top? It can't be that simple.

There is definitely a lot of talented people that have come out of there. But, you know, I've traveled all around the globe. Like I have literally, I remember once I was in an island called the Mauritius Islands, which are down there by Madagascar, way in the remote place, and it's kind of a French island. And I was touring with a woman named Vanessa Paradis. I was playing drums for her. She was married to Johnny DeGar. up for like 17 years, huge French star. I'm there at this hotel and there's this bass player

playing there. And he's like one of the most incredible bass players I ever heard. That's when I got the revelation that there is talent all over this globe. It's just that for some reason, you know, a pocket of people will come out of an area and get known. So maybe one person breaks through. Now other people are paying attention to the talent in that region. But I feel like if any town in the world had a break, we'd all of a sudden go, hey, you know, in Des Moines, Iowa, all this talent is coming out. Barry Gordy is a perfect example of that in Detroit. Motown Records was founded in Detroit, Michigan.

He discovered Diana Roth's Temptations, Marvin Gay, Fortops. Now, did Detroit have a lockdown on talent? No, I just think that he was the one who kind of brought that talent out. I think all over the globe, people have crazy talent, but there always takes one person who kind of breaks through and now we're paying attention to Detroit or we're paying attention to that city. But I just think mankind was born with talent, no question. But there is something to be said when that person breaks from Compton in a place of great degradation. Abject poverty, as you said earlier. All of a sudden the kids in Compton go, hey, I can get out.

You're absolutely right because what happens is one person paves the way and then other people believe they can do something as well. We always need a forerunner to kind of just set the pace and that's when people go, hey, well, he did it, and he's from right around the corner. Because really, all of us are just simple people, but we carry with us great unlimited potential. Unfortunately, nobody sees that. Oftentimes, we don't see it ourselves, but each person carries around a diamond's worth of potential that's inside of us. And you work your whole life to uncover it so it becomes obvious to everyone else, but you always had it. So therein lies the great truth that we're going to spend a lot of time talking about today.

Yeah. This is going to be an encouraging conversation where those of you out there have got a a big dream, you're not sure you can get there, or maybe you're not even there to the dream yet, realizing that yet. I want you to talk about this idea you just mentioned that when we begin to fulfill our potential, everybody begins to notice. Here's the great truth. Fulfilling your potential, Zorro, is not about you. No. Exclusively. No. It's about that gift being seen, that gift being received by those around us. So it's not about fame and fortune. It's about living your gift out so that others can see it and be inspired or receive it, correct?

Yes, and I couldn't agree with you more. I look at it like this. In my journeys around the world, I have traveled with the wealthiest people in the world, literally, three or four, the top wealthiest people on planet Earth, and I've been to the ghettos of L.A., and, you know, I grew up in the ghettos. I've been to the jungles of Ghana, Africa. So I've kind of seen everything the world has to offer, good, bad, and ugly. And I've kind of learned this.

There's really only two ways to live your life. You either live a life of self or you live a life of service. If you live a life of self, and the whole journey is about you, you will self-implode or self-destruct or you will be unsatisfied. I really believe that each person, the reason that we have these divine gifts, is that we're meant to share them and give them to others. And it's in doing that that we find fulfillment. Because there are many Hollywood stars, you know, or business moguls who live self-absorbed lives only to self-destruct. But those that lived with a sense of charity, recognizing, like I recognized a long time ago

the gifts that I had were the gift of a drummer a gift of a speaker, a gift of a writer, and a teacher. Once I recognized those, I decided the whole point of all this is to serve people with that. My greatest joy is when I'm serving people with those gifts. I don't get a lot of joy when it's just about me. So you said it very well earlier. The purpose of our dream

is if we fulfill that dream, we're going to impact many other lives positively. And that's the purpose of Because if you don't have that purpose, you will not have the joy. Being rich and being famous and being respected is not enough because you're really, we're meant to serve one another, like a family. You have a gift that I don't have and I have a gift that you don't have. Everybody needs what everybody else has. And that's where the fulfillment comes. And there's a lot of world not living in any sense of fulfillment at all because they might even be living the dream, but they're still unsatisfied because they've made it about them.

And it's not about them. It's about giving. In the end, you know, when people die on their deathbed, nobody thinks, gee, I wish I had more Grammys, I wish I was more famous, I wish I made more money. No, people are thinking about, I wish I would have given away more of myself. Yeah, and I think you must be rare in the music business. I mean, you may be too humble to admit that. But I think the average person listening here right now goes, I don't see a world-class drummer

who's hanging out with the biggest names in music, all of a sudden deciding that, hey, it's not just about his craft and his art, it's about giving it away to others. So you're six or seven, you discover a passion. You're beating on boxes and Tupperware and you out on the corner. And then like, take us fast forward. At what point does it become about what you just said? You realize, hey, I have a gift and I'm passionate about music, but there's more than that. By the time I was 18, I was living in Beverly Hills, California, and I started to have the good

fortune of being around a lot of successful and famous people. And I think as I observed so many of those people at a young age, and I still saw that not Not all of them, but I still saw that many of them were not happy. Many of them were bitter, angry, or unsatisfied. And I'm thinking to myself at 18 going, well, this is what the most of the world is craving. This is what most of the world wants. Most of the world wants fame, fortune, good looks, power, and whatever you want to call it, sex, drugs, rock and roll.

Most of the world is chasing after these, whatever, fleshly things, right? And they think, if I get that, if I can just have that, then, man, I'm going to be it, and I'm going to be happy. Well, I already met people that had all that. and then many of them weren't happy. So I thought, okay, there's something missing here. And that's when I realized very early on. And then I met other people that were very benevolent, very giving, very kind, very gracious.

And you could meet two different, let's say, famous drummers or celebrities. And one of them wouldn't give you the time of day. And I've never met a self-centered person who was happy. Let's put it this way. I have never met a self-absorbed, self-centered person who was filled with joy. But I've met people that had equal, success, but they had a different way of living. They looked at life as, who can I be a blessing to? Who could I encourage? They looked at that platform, and when they met me at 18, they go, here's a

kid who's really hungry and ambitious. I'm going to pour into this guy for five minutes or ten minutes. Maybe I could do what they could do, because they made me feel that they were approachable. But that's something that anyone could do, because we all carry a platform of potential to impact other people with whatever our job is. We're encountering people all day long. So are they going to have a good encounter with you, a positive one or a negative one? And that's something that anybody could do. Folks, his book, The Big Gig, is Must Reading. It is Big Picture Thinking for Success is the subtitle.

And there's so much in here. I'm just going to hop around, but I want to focus on a couple of early chapters in the book because I think there's a great distinction here for people who want to maximize their potential. The Art of Attitude is Chapter 4 and then the Art of Learning and then the Art of Practicing. three great chapters as you really get into this thing, but I want to focus on the art of learning and the art of practicing. Yeah. Because I think there's a distinct difference there.

Sure. So the art of learning, keys to developing your talent. I want you to talk about the art of learning, why that's so important early on. For people who are super ambitious, they're crazy hungry, there's a temptation to try to skip ahead and to want so badly and not to focus so importantly on what you need before you can ever start doing those realization of dreams and stuff, you have to start and work. So talk about the distinction between learning and then we'll get into practicing. There's a difference. Absolutely. Well, first of all, whatever natural ability or talent that we have, let's say in my case, the first one I recognize was drumming. So it comes

with an unlimited potential. If I have that gift in my DNA, and I can't make myself have that, we have what we have, once I recognize that, now it's up to me to reach that potential. One of the things that kills people from the ability to learn, and our society is rampant with it today. It's anxiousness and a lack of humility. You have to be humble because you don't know what you don't know yet. So you have to be teachable. You have to be pliable because even with the talent, if you're not humble and you're not like a sponge receiving things, you'll never develop that skill to the level that you can.

So the first thing, learning is much different than practicing. And I would advise anybody listening, whatever craft it is, that you have, whatever dream you have, you have to invest in anordinate amount of time into the investment of the knowledge and the acquisition of the knowledge. Because the difference between people that are successful and they're not successful in a given field are people with access to the information. You could have 20, you know, guys that have a brain for stocks, but the person with the information of knowing what to do to build that as a person who has become successful.

So I was an avid reader. For instance, when I wanted to write a book, I had not. never written a book. I wanted to know, well, how do you write a book and how do you write a book proposal? And what does that look like? I went to Barnes & Noble and I bought like 11 or 12 books on how they write a book proposal. I read every single one of them cover to cover. Within me, I already had the gift and the ability to write, but I still had to learn the craft. I still had to learn the craft of a proposal. So the thing that's keeping us a lot of times from reaching our potential is just that unwillingness to do the hard work. It's like one of my favorite quote,

from Henry Ford. He said, opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed up in overalls and looks a lot like work. That's so true. It's work. Learning is work.

You have to invest. I never wasted a single dollar in my life on drinking, drugs, or partying, ever. I'm probably one of the few guys in rock and roll for 35 years. I've never been drunk or never been high in my whole life. And not saying that to make myself sound like a saint, I looked at it like a business. I grew up in hard times with a single mother.

Why would I spend $1 on something that was not going to be invested into my knowledge to make me more valuable? So I spent all of my money on studying, taking drum lessons, going to classes, buying drum books, drum videos when it was the drum thing. When it was the writing thing, I attended writing classes, listened to conversations, went to conferences, bought books about it because I need to acquire the knowledge. I can't make myself have the gift. I had the gift of writing, the gift of speaking, and the gift of drumming. But I can partner with that gift by doing my part, and it's work, you know, pursuing that thing. But there's a whole generation of people. And I talk about this in my other book, the sore book.

There's a difference between a dream and a delusion. Yes. A delusion is just wishful, fanciful thinking. Those are the people that go on American Idol that cannot sing their way out of a paper bag. But somehow they've never listened to anyone around them and they think they could sing. Yeah. And they get mystified and stupefied when they're let go. That'd be like me showing up at a building site expecting to be the foreman and I know nothing about building.

That's right. But delusion is different than a dream. A dream always has substance and structure and plans and blueprints and there's a whole lot of steps to a dream being fulfilled. A delusion is just, I want to be a rock star, I want to be a writer, I want to be a Pulitzer Prize writer. without any of the talent or any of the work. It's a misguided passion because there's no talent to back it up. Absolutely. Here's another thing, too, that I think it's important because you understand this more than most.

The all-important resource of truth tellers in our lives. Because here's what's happening, too. When that kid goes on American Idol, there have been people in his or her life that have told him or her that she can actually sing. Usually it's mom and dad. You know what I'm talking about. You've seen him walk away after Simon Kemp. a proven record executive says you can't sing at all. And they're violently angry as they walk into the lobby of the conference center.

And mom and dad are usually in that camera frame. Doing what? They're all mad. They're hiding their head. Yeah. They're equally mad or ashamed. Right. Because they lied to junior.

Right. Mama, can I sing? Oh, baby, you can sing so good. No, you can't. So we've got to have some truth tellers in our lives. Well, and you just nailed it. One of the most important things we can have in our life are, you know, we always have blinders on. Every single one of us has a set of blinders on. When I was working on finishing my books,

I ran it through the lens of many other people that were great writers and great editors. In other words, I didn't trust myself as the final person. I had ran it through so many filters, and those people helped me refine my ideas, because I might be thinking that this paragraph is really good. I'm communicating what I think I am. But if nine out of ten people aren't getting the point I'm making, that no matter how well I thought I did it, it's not coming across. So that's the humility part. I've got to go, okay, well, no matter how hard I try it, they're not really getting this. I've got to refine this. In my life, whatever I do, whether it's my speaking or teaching or writing or drumming, I always run it through many other people. Now, ultimately, if you've got a

creative idea, let's say you're a screenwriter, ultimately, in the end, you have to go with what you think you're trying to say, but you still have to run it by several people to go, is this connecting and you know and that's again that's part of the humility process right but you need people in your life that can see the blind spots that you can't see about whatever it is you're doing but it requires humility to do that but I think that's your greatest asset in the world or people who can speak into your life and say kin I think what you've got is great but if you just tweak this one thing right you know and then be open to it you know today everybody thinks they know everything like yesterday you've got to be soft man you've got to be hot man you've got to be

That's the real greats, and I've met some of the greatest artists in the world and greatest musicians, the real, real great ones are very humble because they realize there can always learn more. You can never know all of anything, you know, because there's endless amount to know about any subject. It's ever growing. It's ever changing. Which I've always been fascinated and impressed by the music industries, just natural

collaboration. You don't see collaboration like that in many other industries where you can take great songwriters, put them in a room together. They may have never met each other before. And then an artist walks in and it's their album. Yeah. And they've got this vision for it. And then all of a sudden, three or four of them work together to produce a really great song. That doesn't happen unless we're humble. Yeah. Unless we're learning live as we go through this. All right, I want to, I want to transition from the learning to the practicing. I love how you mentioned the multiple types of learning. So here you are a kid who's got a real ability to drum and you happen to love doing it.

So you start watching, I'm guessing, reading, listening. There's multiple ways to learn. Then you move into the practicing. How do we take the learning and the practicing and meld them together so we're prepared? That's another chapter. So we're prepared when the opportunity comes. First of all, by learning to maximize our time. I was always very organized and very strategic.

When I really started playing, it wasn't really until I was about 16 when I acquired my first drum set. Now I had wanted to play since the fourth grade. Every year I asked if I can get into the school band playing the drums. Every year I was rejected. Too many drummers. Too many drummers. So I was actually discovered, believe it or not, the way that my drumming career in practicing started is I was discovered. I was a janitor at my own high school.

I had a two-hour-after-school job. I wanted a cool job, like to work at a music store or something, but there was no opportunities. So my counselor said, well, the closest thing I can do is you can clean the band room. But you got to clean the toilets and the school. So I literally, the school bell rang was 330. I'm in there cleaning urinals, toilets, toilets, mopping. And then the last half an hour of that job was cleaning the band room.

And so I put the music stands away. But I could get that job done in 20 minutes, which left me the last 10 minutes to get in there and sneakily play on the drums when no one was there. Well, one day the band director discovered me drumming instead of cleaning and startled me and said, kid, you're a rhythmic genius where have you been

all of our life we need you and all these bands that's how it started that gave me the momentum he believed in me I was accidentally discovered

he believed in me and I started practicing like crazy but I still had school eight hours a day I still had my job I still had homework so I learned to maximize

the little time that I had I said I've got an hour or two hours to practice every day I got up before the school bus came for an extra hour I got up a five in the morning so I can practice

from five to six and here's what I learned all of us, you, me, the richest guy in the world and the poorest person in the world, we are all equal in this sense. We are only given 24 hours to each day. Nobody gets more. Nobody gets less. So now it becomes a question of how good of a steward are you of that 24 hours?

Because anybody who's achieved anything has done it in the same 24-hour period as a person who squandered it. It's all time management. So I learned to be very focused. I didn't always have like eight or ten hours a day to practice, but I learned, okay, these are the fundamentals. These are the things I need to practice most. And in every field, there are the fundamentals. So never negate the fundamentals and then organize your time in such a way

that you're squandering very little of it. I would organize my time in 10-minute increments and waste as few of those increments as possible. My sticks were always with me. So if I was going to a dentist appointment or a doctor appointment or anything stupid where you're wasting time in the lobby, man, my sticks were out. I'm working on my fundamentals on my leg while I'm waiting.

So I never wasted time. I always carried a book with me. The books would inspire me. If I got 10 minutes while I'm waiting in the DMV for a license renewal, I had my book. I'm reading in the line. I'm not wasting my time. So everyone has those same opportunities because we all have the same amount of time. And let's face it, we're all busy.

Very few people in the world are being paid to practice what they're practicing while they're developing. Nobody paid Tiger Woods to practice when he was a kid before he. became Tiger Woods, you're investing that time and you're making those commitments and decisions to use that time that you have wisely. And then it all adds up. If it took us years and years of hours to be great at something, no one would ever be great because we don't really have that kind of time. Between sleeping, eating, school, and work, I mean, the most we have of extra time to develop something is like from an hour to four hours on any given day. But we don't have like 16 hours a day to do something.

So really, I learned that. I thought, okay, it's not that much time. It's what you do with that time. And if you're working on the actual talent that you have, then you have the capability of turning it into something great. The problem is, like the American Idol thing we're talking about, is that a lot of people want to be something they're not. That's exactly right. Which is another Mark Twain quote where he said, most of us want to be praised for the one

talent we don't possess rather than the 15 that we do. We're putting all this time into something we're not even gifted at instead of going, let me think about the few things that do come natural to me. Let me develop those. Maybe I wanted to be an athlete, but I'm not athletic. So let me just accept that and be great at what I can be great at. Yeah, that's a great truth. And a lot of these kids simply do not know what it is that would make them significant,

what their true meaning is. So therefore they go, well, if I'm famous, I'm significant. And it's a complete lie. It just leads them down this very frustrating path. that example of being a janitor in high school and then taking 10 minutes hustling your tail off so that you can have 10 minutes to bang on the drums because you didn't have access to the drums. Right, right. It's such a phenomenal example.

10, 15 years ago, I would hear that story and go, oh, that's an amazing story. I can't believe it. He was a janitor and then the bandleader hears him and he starts playing. It's not an amazing story. It's actually really fundamental to success. Yeah. You got into the right proximity. So we've been talking about practicing and preparation.

Here's another P word. I'm a Baptist preacher's kid. So alliteration is like a disease for me. But I want to talk about proximity. Yeah. You got yourself into a situation where you were in the proximity of what you wanted to do. And what I'm saying here is, simply put, this is not that magical. Right.

You put yourself in a situation where you could bang on the drums and do some more practice. And then the fact that you got discovered is really not that shocking because there you are in the very room where a band director could walk in and see you doing your thing. Right. Talk about that, because you mentioned this earlier, you just kind of brushed over it. You said early on, you were fortunate, used the word blessed to be around some famous musicians, and that's on purpose as well. I just want you to talk about the power of proximity.

I will give you a great analogy, a great story of that. And it's very true. And I always tell people, you know, whatever you are trying to do in your life, you have to study and find out where are the opportunities exist for that. if you want to be the world's greatest salmon fisherman and you're stuck up in New York City chances are tough road chances are you're not going to catch a lot now if you go to Alaska it doesn't mean you're going to catch any

but you have a better chance in a river in Alaska than you do in New York City so every profession has a place in which that profession has a possibility of thriving the music industry for instance is more location oriented the big parts of the music industry and the film industry right so for me here's my proximity story I'm 18 years old. I had just graduated high school in Eugene, Oregon, okay, just graduated, moved down to California with a band that was going to be auditioning for Disneyland.

They were a cover band, a family act, kind of like the Osmond Brothers meets the Jackson 5, and I was the only non-family member. I get the job. They go down to Disneyland. They audition for Disneyland. They used to have the house gig there, so I thought, we're a shoe in, we'll get the gig. The gig doesn't happen, and it's a big disappointment. but I'm in Los Angeles and all of a sudden I'm like three months later we're scrambling for work I'm unemployed

I have a sister at the time who's a model and she's modeling and she has a little apartment with her and a girlfriend in Beverly Hills and so she says well why don't you try to come down to my apartment for a few weeks and see if you can meet some people here so I get this great idea I decide to go down to Beverly Hills High School I plant myself on the lawn I'm wearing my pimped out hat. I got a boom box with a drumsticks and a practice pad. And my plan is I'm going to play at lunchtime on the lawn. And within a few minutes, anybody who's a musician there is going to notice that I'm new. I pretend like I'm a new student there.

I plant myself in an area, the closest area where I realize there's going to be people from the music industry here. This is Beverly Hills. Within five minutes, I meet a kid who takes a liking to me. His name's Kenny. He said he plays a bass. We hang out for three weeks going all around L.A. He doesn't tell me who he is. He wants to vet me and see who I am first,

which I don't know this till later. Three weeks later, he drives me up to his house. He lives in Bel Air. I'm driving up this incredible driveway. I see pet llamas and all these exotic animals. I go, these people are crazy rich. Well, here's who it ends up being. His father is Barry Gordy, the founder of Motown Records.

My favorite record label of all time, with the Jackson 5 with all his people. So within a few weeks, I'm up at his house. He's got pinball machines in the front of his house like you would at a bowling alley, but they're in his house. I'm playing pinball machines. I see two Rolls Royce is pulling up from the corner of my eye. The doorbell rings.

I go to answer the doorbell. Nobody's there. Lo and behold, I open the door. It's Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5. I'm holding court alone at 18 with Michael Jackson and the Jackson 5, trying to talk them in a jamming with me. Proximity. myself on the lawn of Beverly Hills High School, and I pretended that I was a student there. By the way, I showed up every single day. I started playing in the school bands. I started,

but I was never a student there. No one ever knew that I wasn't a student there. But it was just faith, belief, courage, trust, boldness, but I placed myself in an area where the possibilities of meeting somebody would be greater than sitting in Eugene, Oregon, you know, on a farm. And on that same lawn, I met Lenny Kravitz, who became a lifelong friend. And so I meet these guys simply because I showed up on the lawn in the proximity of a place where a possibility would exist. Now I've got to tell you that in my diary when I was a kid, I kept a diary from like 10 to 18. I wrote in my diary, it became a self-fulfilled prophecy. I wrote one day, I'm going to meet all of my idols. I'm going to meet Michael Jackson,

5. I'm going to meet Earthwind and Fire. I'm going to meet Buddy Rich. I was visualizing. I was dreaming, but I literally would dream about it, but then I took some action steps to, by being in a place proximity-wise, where the possibility existed. So there's a lot to say about vision. Also, to fulfill any vision, takes a lot of courage. It took a lot of courage and a lot of gall to pretend that I was a student at a school. And this was 1980 when you could get away with that. No one ever knew I wasn't a student. I was there every day. I relived my senior year without going to school, without having to do homework. Yeah, Kenny Gordy and Lenny Kravitz walk up to you.

I mean, just because you're out there and you're just putting yourself in the right position. Yeah. That's one of my favorite stories of all the time. I knew the Lenny Kravitz story. I didn't know the Kenny Gordy story. Yeah. So that was fresh to me. I was thinking it was Lenny Kravitz because he writes the forward to this book, the big gig.

And he mentions that story. Yeah. Yeah, he sees you over there and he's like, this is a cool looking cat. He kind of stuck out. You know, he's talking about your clothes. Yeah, yeah. And you end up, and to this day, you're very close with him. You've toured all over the world with Lenny Kravitz.

Yes. Yes, but he was like a year and a half younger than me, but we met on the lawn at Beverly Hills High because I did something outlandish. Do you still have that boombox? I wish I did. Because that's a pretty historic boombox. I actually, I'm very sentimental, and I've kept many, many things from my childhood. I say more things from my life's journey than most people I know. I wish I had that boombox, not only because it would be sentimental to me, but because it was actually great quality.

It's when they first came out. And you know how it is with these manufacturers. The first thing they come out with is really great. Heavy, heavy parts. Five years later, it's all cheap plastic and it's junk. But the one I had was like, it weighed like a tank, man. And those speakers were like amazing. But that boombox kind of changed my life.

No kidding. And the drumsticks and the practice pad. And I played on the lawn to some earthwind and fire. And I was just cranking it and going, okay, they're going to know I'm a new drummer. And I'm new in town. All right. A few more chapters we're going to touch on here. The art of reacting.

Now, I love this. This is very personal to me. Yeah. Because when you're in broadcasting or when you're in music or you're in acting, you are the product. You're not selling a copier machine. No, no. So when somebody says, I don't want to buy your copy machine, it's not personal. Right.

But when you have to audition, as I have and you have, that is a treacherous body of water because it hurts. It does. Because you're being rejected person. I don't care how strong you are mentally. You know this is true. Yes. I want you to speak to those who are listening in who have recently been rejected. They've had to audition on some form or fashion.

Maybe it's just a job interview. Sure. And they've experienced rejection. That is something that an artist understands better than most. You call it the art of reacting. What should it look like? Well, first of all, failure and rejection is not a permanent thing. What makes it permanent is quitting.

We have to understand that most of us are going to be rejected many, many times in our life. In fact, there's nothing that I've eventually succeeded at that was. first met with rejection. Every book that I wrote, when I wanted to become an educator, when I wanted to become a drummer, people that I auditioned for, my whole life is a series of rejections. But I didn't accept that as the final answer. Yes, it hurt. Yes, it was painful. But I always try to learn from each thing. In the early part of my career when I was rejected as a drummer, they would say to me, kid, you've got a lot of talent, you've got a great gift. You just need more experience. And of course, you need credit, but you don't.

don't have credit. You know, well, give me the chance to have experience, and then I will have the experience. But they don't want to take a chance on you because you're not as season. So that would make me go back and practice harder, take more gigs, take every gig under the sun to gain that experience. Same thing happened when I became a speaker. Same thing happened when I became a writer. Every book that I eventually did that people love around the world were books that were rejected first. But then I go, you know what, I'm in good company. The lady who wrote Harry Potter was turned down 29 times before a little clerk at one of the publishing first. I read it and said, there's a book I think you should check out to the main guy, the acquisitions

director. So, Colonel Sanders, I did a lot of studying when I wrote my book, SOR, because I wanted to tell you all the people that we think of as majorly successful that were totally rejected. Lucille Ball, they told her, you'll never amount to anything as an actress. Don't quit your day job. Fred Astaire was told, he kept it to the day he died. He had a little card that he kept in his office, and it was from a casting call he did. And the director said, can dance a little, can't sing, balding next.

And he kept that as a thing to go back in and work harder because that's what they saw. And he's like, that ain't going to be the final answer. So here's the deal. In life, sometimes we're handed a script. The script can come from our own family that says, this is how high you're going to jump and you'll never go any higher. The script can come from the world saying, Fred Astaire, you're not really that talented. You can barely dance. Or Lucille Ball, you can't really act.

Colonel Sanders, you know how many times he had to knock on the door to get somebody to buy his first fried chicken? He was in 60s, by the way, a thousand times before he got somebody to say yes. How many of us would have quit after 10, after 20, after 100, after 500? So the key to all this is to not take these things as personally defining, learn what you can from it, you know, meaning how can I go back and refine my product, how can I learn to speak better, how can I learn to write better, how it might fried chicken taste better. There's always something we can learn to improve whatever it is we're selling,

whether it's a service or an item, right? So that's the first thing. If we can improve it, but then nobody can tell me when it's time to quit except me. And so it's really just persistence and perseverance. And, you know, we've got all of history to show you. Thomas Edison, 10,000 experiments before he figured out what was going to make the light bulb last longer. I mean, he tried hair particles, every particle on the planet. I mean, most of us would just give up.

So I think it's in my new book, Soar. The quote is from Thomas Edison, if we all did what we were capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. If we did what we were capable of, we would literally astound ourselves. So rejection is going to come to all of us, and it has no bearing on whether we have that actual talent or not.

If we're pursuing something that we really do have a talent or a vision for, then it's up to us when we just, decide to throw in the towel. But there's no short answer for perseverance. I've tried not to take rejection personal. It's hard because, you know, we're individuals with human feelings, and when somebody rejects you, you take it as they don't like me, but they just, you know, you might not be right for the party. You might not be ready yet or whatever. I got rejected from a lot of gigs, but then eventually one gig they said, you just don't play hard enough, you know, because I was just young. And then I went into the practice room, man, for the next couple of years, I said, man,

the next time somebody hears me, they're going to hear the hardest hitting drummer ever, and that's not going to be the comment anymore. And then I became very powerful. And when I played, I played with authority, and I was never, ever let go because of that. But I had to have the humility to accept, well, that's probably true right now. But what can I do about it? There are things we can change and things we cannot change, you know, and it's that serenity prayer. You have to have the wisdom to know the difference and the things you can't change, you know, if I'm a, you know, a white actor and I can't play Martin Luther King, you know, no matter what, I'm not going to be that. So there's certain things we just have to accept. I'm not that. I can't be that. But let me be

the best me I can and they'll be the right role for me in time. Okay, I'm so glad you said that to that point. That's where I wanted to go. It's unbelievable. It's a great segue. Because when you think of a world-class concert and you go up there and you, let's just take Lenny Kravitz. You played with Lenny for years. Yeah, yeah. So you go to Lenny Kravitz. So you go to Lenny Kravitz concert, which I haven't done yet. Okay, but you're out there and you're watching him, and you just can imagine how incredible, you know, it is, because you've got a world-class lead singer, you've got a world-class bassist, lead guitar, just go down the list, drummer.

Yeah. The idea of role, when you're playing with a world-class band and an artist like Lenny Kravitz, everybody's got to know their role. Yes. And there's something to it. That song doesn't sound great in studio or live if the drummer isn't just absolutely crushing that role. and you can just go down the list. I think we get that.

Yet, we get that when we watch something like that. But then we forget our role and to be so empowered and so alive in knowing that our role matters and not getting distracted that, hey, this is the part that I'm supposed to play. I want you to speak to that. Well, everybody listening right now is playing some role somewhere. That role is either, you know, father, husband, wife, daughter, sister. We're all family, right? We're playing some role, and we're all somewhere.

We're in school, we're at work, whatever. When I was the janitor at my high school, I was playing a role. The role was I was a janitor cleaning toilets. But I told myself this at 16 years old. I said, and the schoolmates used to make fun of me and the sports guys used to make fun of me. And I told them, I said, I may be cleaning the toilets now, but I'm going to clean these better than anyone who's ever cleaned them. When you walk by, this urinal is going to be glistening so bright, you're going to be blinded by the light. And you're going to know that Zoro made his mark here in the toilet.

And because of that, one day I'm going to rise above. I knew what my role was. I was a janitor, but I was going to be the best one. And guess what? I didn't stay there. If we know what our role is in the company at McDonald's, if you're serving and your role is to take the orders, the drive-through people, then be the best person that's ever worked there

that never gets the order wrong. Because you know how annoying it is when you're hungry and you leave and it's all the wrong stuff? Be the blessing to somebody and go, you know what? Every order that comes to me is going to be right. and you'll never stay in the same place if you understand your role. And in drumming, I always looked at it like an actor. Because I spent years with Frankie Valley in the Four Seasons and Bobby Brown and New Edition and Lenny Kravitz and Philip Bailey from Earth, Wind and Fire. And they're all different.

And so I looked at myself more like an actor. A great actor like a Robert De Niro or an Anthony Hopkins or a Denzel Washington, whatever character they play, man, they become that. And if we could all approach the career that we're in like an actor, what does this role at this job, at this company? Right now, I'm not the CEO. I'm the vice president. Right now, I'm just in the mailroom. But what role am I playing? And let me play it the best I possibly can.

And guess what? When you do that, you'll get another role. And they'll give you another role and another role because you did that so well that they go, this cat's got to, we got to give him another role. So we're really all part of a team. There are no solo efforts in this world. Anybody who does anything, unless you're an undertaker, you know, we're doing things that are in collaboration with other people. And if we can think more like a team player and that we are just a small part of that team, I've enjoyed as a drummer being a part of a team. I'm not the lead singer. I'm not the songwriter. I know what my role is and I try to play it well.

All right. On this path, this is another question that is related to what you just said. This is from the forward to the book, The Big Gig. Lenny Kravitz wrote this. And you think Lenny Kravitz. I mean, this guy is probably one of the most unique looking guys. It's a great looking dude, but he's very unique, head to toe, from the hair all the way to the shoes. Yeah. This is what he wrote about you.

I'm going somewhere with this. Okay. He says, I walked out of class and headed across the grass as usual to find myself staring at a character dressed in designer clothes, shades, a gold chain, and a mother of pearl watch on an alligator strap. That's you. All right. So now that leads me to the name Zorro. Yes. I've purposely held this question off. Where does that come from? That's not your given name.

It comes from my mother who was born in Mexico City. My mother was the daughter of a Supreme Court judge. And throughout my life, she exposed me to the Mexican culture, even though I grew up in Los Angeles. I was born in Los Angeles. I don't even speak Spanish, unfortunately. I wish I did. I wish you would have taught that to me. That's one thing I wish you would have imparted to me. I would not have guessed that. When I grew up in the 60s, it wasn't popular to have your kids speak another language. Back then they discouraged it.

They said, teacher's son, English, you live in America. Right. Today, they would encourage you to learn five languages. But at any rate, she used to always say, you know, because I used to always wear hats. And I used to always wear hats and scarves. My mother wore scarves, and I thought they were really cool. So I have a picture of myself in first grade. And the first grade, I'm wearing a big giant orange scarf.

That's awesome. I'm the only kid in first grade. Oh, of course. We're wearing a scarf. Not just first grade. You're the only dude wearing a scarf in the entire elementary school. Exactly. Come on.

There we go. Exactly. That's awesome. But I always wore hats too because I always thought hats. She raised me on old movies from the 30s and 40s and 50s. And back then, hats were a real big part of culture. In American around the world, you always saw in the movies, people wore hats. And I always thought hats were cool because they gave you a different identity and you became a different character.

So I began wearing this sort of Zoroish hat that I got at the Bullfights in Mexico City. And she just started kind of nicknaming me that. And she goes, you know, you're kind of like the real Zorl because the real Zorl always fought for the commoner. He fought for the underdog. He was like the Robin Hood of the Spanish folklore. And so it just became a nickname that just then became me. And then I just sort of adopted it and felt like it was a name that I really identified with because I was always trying to help people based on what I came from and the poverty and the

oppression that I came from grew this heart of somebody who wanted to be a champion for the people. And because of the Spanish heritage, it just all clicked. And then once I really became it, everybody, like the new edition would, introduced me on stage as Zorro and Lennie Kravison, and everybody remembered Zorro. You know what I mean? And it felt very natural and organic because it came about from my mother, really. Well, it's perfect for a drummer. Yeah, totally. It was just, you know, you're not going to say, oh, I met Zorro, which one? There's four of them. It's true. People meet me once 10 years ago, and they go, oh, Zorro.

Oh, yeah, I remember meeting him. So it's just kind of fun, you know, it's just kind of showbiz. Yes, but there's something to this. Yes. So I wanted to set that up that way. And so you would say, of all people, you would say, be yourself. And you said that throughout this conversation. But I want people to get this idea of a personal brand. Yeah. And we've seen it in entertainment for a long time. Yes.

All entertainment folks get this. But for the average person, there is still something to being who they are, but also being intentional with their brand and having that uniqueness in them come out in some way. Now, it doesn't have to be an alias. Right. It doesn't have to be scarves or hats. Right. But there's something to that.

Right. How can we, and encourage us to use our uniqueness, to build a brand to allow us to maybe stand out a bit from the crowd. There's nothing wrong with that. No, there's nothing wrong with that in all. And in fact, we're all special in our own right. You know, there's no two fingerprints that are the same. I have a chapter in the SOR book.

The chapter is called B, B, B, E. It's the eighth life principle. To really succeed in this life and on this planet, to be everything you were created to be, you have to embrace who you are and be that original person. because in there is where you're going to find your true strength. Yes, we're all influenced by our predecessors. Sir Isaac Newton said, I stand on the shoulders of giants that preceded me.

That's why he succeeded. We all build off of what the last guy built, right? But we find our own way of doing it. The way I look at identity is I look at it like a secret melody. If I were to give you a spiritual analogy, I would say, God created each person with a secret melody. It's like an access code, and he only gave you that access code. It's a secret access code for only you and a melody that only you in your whole DNA,

only you are wired to sing that. Look, I'm in a field where there's a bazillion drummers, right? But at a certain point, after being influenced by a lot of people, I realize, in the end, this has got to come out, Zorro. I can have all these influences, and they're all astream of who I, I am, but I got to let it come out and be me. This can happen when you're 12, 18, 40, 60, 70. It can happen whenever you begin to embrace who you are.

And all the things about me that made me different, I grew up with a single mother and immigrant mothers, seven brothers and sisters. There were no men in my life, no uncles, no aunts, no grandparents. So I grew up more tender-hearted because I had this very sentimental, soft Mexican mother, and I realized I'm kind of like her. And instead of shunning that, I go, well, that's my life. That's how I grew up. I just have to embrace who that is.

An example would be I put it in my dedication in my SOR book. I dedicated it to the three women in my life that were the most powerful women in my life because women shaped my life, starting with my mother, my sister, and my wife. Now that might not be anybody else's story, but that's my story. So I have to embrace what are all the things that I went through as a child? What are all the hardships and what are all those things? and they're going to make a fresh organism, which is me. And everybody out there listening, you have your own story, you have your own set of demographics,

you have your own life experiences, who you came from ethnically, where you were born. All this makes up who you are. But we have to get to the point where we go, let me accept the best parts of me and just make them really stand out and shine. Because the most powerful person in the world is a person who walks in their own skin and is comfortable. When you know who you are, this is what I do, this is what I do well. And you don't have to be clever. You don't have to be fancy. You just have to be excellent at being you.

And that's when you're going to find that melody. And that's when you're going to find that song that nobody else could sing quite like you. Because we all have similar talents in life. If you've got a gift for drafting, thousands of others have a gift for drafting. But look at all the architects that built different things, right? So we're already unique if we just embrace that and then find our way of drafting, our way of building a building that's never been done. We're not limited by anything. We are unlimited creatures of creativity.

We really are. I feel like the day, you know, Ken and Zorro showed up on the planet, there was a billion dollars in our account. It's a billion dollars of potential that was already born given to us, that's secret access code. But we've got to go and get it out every day. We've got to get up and go to the bank and make it. withdrawals and go, hey, there's a billion dollars of potential here. I'm going to start exercising my assets here and just be comfortable with who you are and don't, you know, you can be influenced by other things, of course.

But in the end, it's like pizza. What is pizza? It's cheese, dough, and sauce, right? But all over the world, people make pizzas and they taste different with those same three ingredients. Isn't it amazing with three things, how many different ways you can make stinking pizza? That's good. Because they've all learned how to put their kind of tomato or their kind of oven at what temperature and their crust.

So all we've got to do is find our song with our unique gift and just sing your tune. And that's where people are going to go, hey, I've never heard that song. I like that song, right? Because you're just you. That's so strong. Okay, I'm going to ask you a few quick questions. Sure. This is kind of a speed round, okay?

Because I can't let you go a world-class drum without asking these questions that are kind of pop it up. I can't ignore them. It's like a little voice over here. And he's going, ask this, ask this. So this is for our audience because this is fun. World-class drummer here. You've already heard a good list of people he's played for. So here we go.

Favorite venue that you've ever played in. I know some of these are hard to answer, but I just want you to answer them. Favorite venue I ever played was outside in front of the Washington Monument, Washington, D.C., 4th of July. Because when I played there, it was an outdoor concert free to the public. I was with the new addition, a big group in the 80s, and we played for close to 2 million people. Wow. It was a sea of people in every direction. And I've got a picture of me by the drums.

And all you see, it looks like Moses movie. You know, and so that was an epic moment. You've traveled the world to play concerts, favorite city in the world. Favorite city in the world? Gosh, it's somewhere... I know these are tough. It's going to be somewhere in Europe, somewhere in Spain or Italy, where the people were just on fire. Maybe Rome or Madrid, because of the people.

Really, my favorite cities become... the people are that just have love and life and enthusiasm and those Latin people from the world, they're just on fire. Favorite song to play drums, too. Ooh. I know. They're getting harder, by the way. It's going to be anything by Earth, Win and Fire.

Okay. All right. Any great group by EWF, you know, and I got to play with most of those guys. So, yeah, that Earthwin and Fire was one of my favorites. All you millennials out there that are scratching your head, you need to go search them on the Internet. Hopefully they know who EarthWin and Fire is. And also Frank Sinatra.

You played for Frank? No, no. I loved Frank. My mother took me to see him when I was 11 years old, and the concert changed my life. I was going to say. So I love playing along to any great classic Frank Sinatra song. They're just beautiful. All right.

Favorite concert. Can you remember a concert that just sticks out more than any other one? Would it be the same as that favorite venue? Would it be that same concert at the Washington Monument? Probably the favorite concert that sticks out is when I saw Sinatra. Also, I was seven, my very first concert ever, was Diana Ross and the Supremes and the Temptations when they were super hot in the 60s. And that was kind of a life-changing concert because I focused in on the drummer not knowing I was going to be a drummer. And there was something about that rhythm that beckoned me down.

So that was a pretty incredible concert. Do you love the drum solos more than just playing along in the song? Not particularly. I do appreciate a great drum solo being a drummer. But I've always dug more than just the drum solos. a drummer who really played great for the song. I dug drummers who really were part of ensembles and they understood their role and their job was to serve that song.

So like, you know, all the great R&B drummers of James Brown or Aretha Franklin or big band drummers like Buddy Rich. People that knew this is the role that I'm playing. I enjoyed the parts they crafted and the things that made people dance, you know, the funky beats that made. But I do enjoy a great drum solo, but I couldn't hear drum solos. all day and I'm a drummer, but I could hear great

songs all day. Final question, this is just for pure fun. If you could only pick one artist that you've never played with and you could have one concert with them where you played drum for them, who would it be? Man, it would be one or two of them

and we'd have to flip a coin. Okay, give me both. It would have been Elvis or Frank Sinatra. Yeah. Elvis or Sinatra. Can't go wrong there. They're both extraordinary and just in different styles and realms. I was too young to be with those guys, but to

play a concert with them, I would have been either one of them. So good. He is Zorro. And again, two books. He's been talking about both. Of course, one is the big gig, big picture thinking for success. And the new book is called Soar. You were meant to live for so much more. I could not agree more with that tagline.

This is a great man, and you need to get both of these books. Tell them where they can connect with you online, because you do blogging, you speak. You're right. I'd love for them to know how they can connect more. Yes. It's Zorro Z-O-R-O-M-I-S-T-R-E-S, just like it's spelled, Zoroministries.org. I have blogs on there, motivational quotes, motivational moments.

I have like one-minute videos on there. Just stuff you can get totally inspired. And then the books you can get on Amazon.com and at Barnes & Noble. Well, let me tell you something, friend. I could do this for hours upon hours, but unfortunately we don't have that time. But thanks for being with us. We're better for it. Ken, you are a blessing,

to work with, dude. You were a very smart, intelligent man. Your questions were poignant. It was talking to a lifelong brother. This was the easiest thing in the world communicating with you, and we have similar hearts. We're kindred spirits. So thanks for giving me this opportunity, allowing me to share my heart with your listeners, and allowing me to go long-winded on some of these answers. There's so much in me, and it's fun to release it to people. I love inspiring people. That's what I live to do is to be an inspiration. So you've given me that opportunity. Well, I hope you enjoyed that conversation. The conversation continued for us. Eric, you have done some scavenging, I guess. You got some bonus material? Tell folks what you're

going to give them. So Zorro, he actually spoke for our entire team at our Wednesday devotional, and he is such a man of faith. We know some of you would love to hear that audio. So on this episode post on Entryleadership.com slash podcast, just click the post. The second MP3 you'll see there is Zorro talking to our team about his faith journey living out his faith in the marketplace the effect has had and it really meant a lot to Dave our leaders the whole team so that's just bonus audio for you guys and if you want to see the fun chemistry between Zorro and Ken just go to our social media we have a fun clip and the ending of it well Zora lives up to his true name of Zodda oh it's hysterical is that at entree leadership uh the the Twitter feed and and and

Instagram or Twitter Facebook Instagram we're vamping up on all of that so check it's funny, very good stuff. And by the way, I want to mention one more time because he mentioned both books during our conversation, but he's got two great books, the big gig, big picture thinking for success, and then SOAR, nine proven keys for unlocking your limitless potential. So go check them out, and I hope you enjoyed that. Hey, folks, our Entree leadership team is bringing you an amazing resource this month. It's absolutely free. How to Create Core Values. going to take you through five steps that'll help you develop and then communicate your company's guiding principles. Nothing is more obnoxious in my mind than when a company says they have core values and then nobody knows what they are and you never see them. This isn't motivational material.

This ought to be lighthouse material, right? It's what every company member can see. No matter where they're at, no matter how the weather is, how rocky things. are they can look up and see that virtual lighthouse. That is, these are our values. And so we want to make sure that you take us up on this. Again, it is a cheat sheet. Easy, easy, easy for you to begin the conversation and then apply it by cranking these things out and living by them. So you can get it two ways. You can text EL values, all one phrase together, EL values. Text that to 3-3. 444. That's 33

444 or as always you can get the link to this great resource in the show notes at entreleadership.com click on podcast and then you just go to this episode and you know that it is waiting for you. Well folks I enjoyed Zorro so much

I hope you did as well I just want to say as I always do on behalf of Eric the producer. Our engineer Will Runner and the entire Entree leadership team We are so very grateful that you listen to us. Spread the word, will you? And again, we'll talk with you very soon.