EntreLeadership - #211: John Tabis—Turning Rejection Into Opportunity

Episode Date: July 3, 2017

Imagine getting a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to catapult your business to the stratosphere by pitching it on the hit TV show Shark Tank . . . but you blow it. What do you do? If you are today’s guest, John Tabis, CEO and founder of The Bouqs Company, you take that tough lesson and turn it into even more success. John joins us to share his story and show how it’s possible to not only survive rejection but also thrive. entreleadership.com/podcast EntreLeadership 1-Day Live Stream Infusionsoft's Super Charge Your eCommerce Busienss with Marketing Automation   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

City, this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Our feature conversation this episode is with John Tabas. You may not have heard of him, but you're going to know who he is after this episode and be glad of it. So the quick story, John Tavis is the co-founder of the Bookes Company. They have literally disrupted the flower industry. Really fun stuff. His story includes a rejection on Shark Tank, but that's not the rest of the story. We'll share that with you and then coming out of the interview. I've got some more thoughts on this idea of rejection, specifically how to handle noes. Now, I taught on this idea of turning rejection into redirection several months ago, and then we got many of your stories. It's very

popular. We're going to continue to expand all that, some new thoughts because John's going to tell that story of how he handled the no. And I think there's some great takeaways that I got, and I believe they'll help you as well. And of course, we're going to give you some free resources. We've got a couple of announcements that will spread out through the episode. So let's do this. I am excited to tell you that I am opening up my calendar to speak to companies. Now, we've already had several gigs come through from the Entree Leadership Summit, people that were there. And we connected. And they said, hey, Kim, we'd love to have you come speak for our organization. And we've made it happen. So I have never talked about that on this podcast. So just letting you know, select dates. We're not going to do a lot.

We've got a lot going on here. But for three years, I've really kind of kept my schedule really tight around our live events and the broadcasting that I do here. But opening up the calendar, so I would love to come customize a talk for your organization. Here's how we do it. We simply get on the phone with you, Justin Doris and myself, who handles all that, and we figure out what you need, and I craft something custom to fit your needs, so we'd love to do that. So just know that is an option. If you're interested in that, you can just email us, podcast at ontraeleadership.com, podcast at ontraeleadership.com, and we'll get you connected. I'd love to come speak for your organization.

Well, let's get right to our feature conversation. John Tavis is somebody that I had never heard of before, but I love this story. So much in this conversation for you entrepreneurs who are going after it and you can see the big vision. It's beginning to come into focus for you. And I don't care where you're at in your business journey. You're going to get a lot out of this conversation. So let's get right to it. Here is my conversation with John Tavis.

Well, John, this is fun. I must tell you, I want to start our conversation because I and my kiddos, 11, 9, and 8 are big fans of Shark Tank. And before we get into some practical wisdom and knowledge from your very successful experience, I want our audience to hear the story of Shark Tank because there's some great content here that we're going to pull out of you. So let's start there. Take us through how the Bukes Company kind of got its Shark Tank exposure, whatever. happened and then the aftermath. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Shark Tank has been, I say this all the time, one of the best things that's happened to this company, and it's kind of the gift that keeps on giving. You know, you go on the show, and at least for us, it has led to multiple, multiple media appearances,

partnerships, investors at this point. So it's been really an amazing asset to the company. So going back, we're only about a year into the company, not even about nine months. And I got an email through an alumni list. I went to UCLA Anderson here in Los Angeles for business school. An email saying, hey, Shark Tank is looking for venture-backed startups to join the show. If anybody has a company like that that's interested, you can apply here. And so I'd watched the show for years. I was a fan, and I thought, you know, huh,

they're making a shift where they want to bring in some folks who had actually raised some capital and not just sort of the mom and pop in the garage things. And I thought, maybe that would be interesting. and I spent some time pondering it. I wasn't sure because it's different, right? A company that is, you know, $50,000 of revenue and the sharks are going to give you $50 grand for 50% of it is very different than a company that's already raised some venture capital.

So I noodled on it a long time, eventually decided to move forward with it. And we went through the process like anybody else, you know, a huge long-written application, a video application, in-person interviews and everything. One of the things that's a little different for us is the studios are literally about a mile and a half from our headquarters. So it was pretty easy to get over there and get back and logistically handle things.

And luckily enough, we were chosen to be on the show. And then it became about, do we want to do it? Because then I started to get nervous. The producers essentially indicated we want you on the show. Here's the opportunity. Here's how it works and everything. And then I started getting worried that because our valuation was set by the round we had just closed, that because we couldn't negotiate, the sharks might accuse me of sort of using it

for publicity. And I really wanted a shark to invest, but we were at a different price range than was typical. And then I was nervous about the whole thing they do sometimes where, you know, the magic of TV, you can make anybody look however you want to make them look. And I started getting nervous that maybe because of that they might make me look like one of those guys that's sort of manipulating the system or is a little shifty. And so I paused for about a month and I sort of held off and then eventually decided, you know, this is a once in a lifetime opportunity. I'm going to do it. And so we moved forward. I talked to my co-founder. who resides in Ecuador, but is a pretty private guy, and he decided not to join me on the show.

So it was going to be just me. And so drove over to the Sony lot where they filmed the show and, you know, did hair and makeup in a trailer like a real TV star would, and then just sort of waited. And eventually it was my turn to come on. And I think one of the most interesting things about Shark Tank is that what you see on TV is an edited down version, but it is actually what happens. There is no sort of pre-preparation. I thought maybe I would meet the sharks beforehand

and we would shake hands over like the drinks table or something. And there was none of that. When I first walked in was the first time I saw them, it was the first time they saw me, and I went right into the pitch. And that was an hour and 45 minutes of debate with Mr. Wonderful and the whole crew, but it quickly got into some real sort of technical pieces

around valuation and going public. But we were in there for an hour and four. 45 minutes, and then obviously didn't end up getting a deal and sort of walked out, feeling a little bit beat up and bruised. But again, it was really an amazing relationship. And, you know, a couple years later, we actually finally got Robert Herzegovic to invest in the company last summer. Right. And so it took a little while, but we finally got there. Yeah. Now, I want to go back into that. You landed that beautifully, but I want to go back into the story. Sure. Before you reconnect with Hershevec, who's been a guest on our podcast and was, I interviewed. I interviewed

him on our summit stage, our large event that we do. So our audience knows Robert and some of his story. So it took a little while, but we finally got there. Yeah. Now, I want to go back into that. You landed that beautifully, but I want to go back into the story. Sure. Before you reconnect with Hershevec, who's been a guest on our podcast and I interviewed him

on our summit stage, our large event that we do. So our audience knows Robert and some of his story. So you get rejected on the show. My question is, there's multiple points of contention for anybody who's seen the show. So forget the valuation and maybe what you were asking for versus the stake that they would get. So forget any contention there. What were they poking holes or identifying as problems with your business? And before you answer that, just give us 20 seconds on what business you were in. I've obviously told the audience, you're in the flower business, but describe the concept at that point. And then what were. some holes they were pointing out. Sure. So we are a cut-to-order online flower company that deploys technology at farms around the world. And when I say around the world, I literally mean around the world, Kenya, Colombia, Ecuador, et cetera, et cetera. And we deploy that technology so that you as a shopper can shop directly from those farms. And at the time, we were still early in our

business. We only had a few farms and they were all in Ecuador. And the benefits of this model are that you don't hold any inventory. You get really fresh product for less dollars for the consumer because it's fresh church. And, you know, I think my biggest failure in the pitch was I didn't address that ahead of time. And so they asked the question, like, how fast do you deliver? And when I said five or six days, I could see it in their faces. You can see it in the episode, they all go, oh, it was like it was the worst thing in the world.

And they really tore me up on that. And I had an answer for it, which was, and it was literally a week after we were filming, we were launching domestic farms, and now we have a ton of farms across the United States where we can deliver in as little as about 18 hours. So if you order by 3 o'clock Eastern, it's going to arrive the next morning. And I addressed that, but it was almost like I had emotionally lost them at that moment. And it was, you know, that was the sort of critical error I think I made in my process in the tank. Do you think it's because they were so, I don't want to use the phrase, but I'll use it. I think you know where I'm going here. They were so accustomed to the western or the establishment

version of flowers, right? So, hey, I'm going to order flowers online and I get them the next day, the next morning. And so they were so accustomed to how the business has currently been operating that when you threw that at them, they just couldn't wrap their brain around the fact that, well, if you plan right, you're going to get flowers fresh. They're going to last longer. That's the model. That's what really works. Is that what was going on? They couldn't get past that? I mean, you've already acknowledged that you didn't pitch it right, but they also couldn't wrap their head around how this business has currently been operating that when you threw that at them, they just couldn't wrap their brain around the fact that, well, if you plan right, you're going to

get flowers fresh, they're going to last longer. That's the model. That's what really works. Is that what was going on? They couldn't get past that? I mean, you've already acknowledged that you didn't pitch it right, but they also couldn't wrap their head around how this was working. I think that's right. You know, if you went out and did a search. of online floral delivery company and said, what percentage of your orders are today or tomorrow? It would be like 90%. The difference is, is no one has ever given anybody a reason

to plan ahead. And no one ever gave anybody a reason to wait for four or five days. And the reality is there's lots of events where you know it's coming ahead of time. Like, when's your mom's birthday? You know it today. You could place the order now,

and it would show up in six months. And so what happened there was what I didn't help them see was that there was a good reason for that. And more importantly, the results were speaking for themselves. We had, at that point, we hadn't spent any of the money we had just closed, and we were a million dollar a year business on sort of just sweat and technology.

So the results were speaking for themselves. Whether or not you as a shark think that's a good idea, the consumer is voting with their dollars and saying, I like this. And so I didn't do a great job of setting up the disruption that it caused in the supply chain and what those benefits were to both the consumer in the short term and then really the world and the long term, you know, that the traditional supply chain that gets you those flowers today or tomorrow

wastes 50% of the flowers, 50% of them die without ever being monetized. So just huge economic and environmental waste. And so I could have done a better job in that setting of helping them see those benefits and understand that there is a segment of people for whom waiting is fine. If they're going to save money, they're happy to wait. And we're 40 bucks out the door on that product and we still are today. And that's compared to, you know, 60 or 7. elsewhere. So people that want to save money, they're fine with planning if they're going to save

some money. If they're going to reduce waste and reduce environmental impact, they're fine with waiting. And so I didn't do a great job of highlighting those when I was on the show. Right. But this is why I wanted you on. We're going to get to the rest of the story, folks. And obviously, John kind of gave you a little bit of foresight about what's coming. But, John, I think this is a huge lesson right here for entrepreneurs, specifically, people who are in that hustle stage. And to me, there's two types of rejection. So there's the rejection where you get really smart people who are really experienced, and they give you feedback, and it's negative.

It's a form of rejection, but it is right. Then there's the rejection that you faced, which is, for whatever reason, all the extenuating circumstances, the sharks couldn't wrap their brain around it. You didn't pitch it right, whatever. But when you walked out of those doors that we all see, and you walk in the hallway and back into reality, the reality actually was that you were proving it with real customers. And I just want you for a moment to teach us on that. Because the people that need to keep going in the face of rejection are people who've got

some data, who've got some real response, who have more than a hypothesis. And I just think that sometimes we've got to be careful of holding on too long and you didn't need to. You knew that it was success and that you could keep going. Would you just speak to that? Because I think this is a brilliant analogy here. For sure. And it wasn't just the tank either. You know, I was out in the previous six months pitching Silicon Valley Venture Capitalist, Los Angeles, venture capitalists, folks in the flowers. And I was getting a loss of that was, one, consumers were voting with their pocketbooks. I ordered from you and I didn't like the packaging. Or I ordered from you and it took too long or hey the whole world is moving to on demand why don't you build the uber

for flowers and you know that was a constant theme i got the uber for flowers uber for flowers and my response to that was one consumers are voting with their pocketbooks look at the metrics but two let's focus not on what's cool today in venture capital because today uber for whatever is not cool right uber for laundry uber for everything has come and gone and it's not cool anymore So what I said to them at the time was let's not focus on what's cool today. Let's focus on what problem you're solving. And is it a real problem for consumers? And my response to that criticism of you should be building the Uber for Flowers is like,

that already exists. If you want flowers delivered today, I will show you 10,000 websites that do that. That is not a real problem. Getting flowers from a local florist to the end consumer is easy. I can give you 10,000 websites to do that today. So that's not a real problem for the customer. The problem for the customer is those are old flowers. and they don't know where those flowers came from,

and those flowers are really expensive. And what they order is not what shows up. Those are real consumer problems, and I have built this foundation upon which I can give those things to them. I can give them fresh flowers that are sustainably sourced that came straight from the farm so we know it, that have zero waste. And so those are real problems that I'm trying to solve. And so I agree with you completely.

The metrics tell the story, and what someone thinks about your business may or may not be super relevant. So I think it's a combination of you have to have some reason for your belief. And before you launch, your reason for your belief is that you believe it. And that can be and should be very powerful for you. But if you launched the thing that you believe in and then the customer or the market or whatever tells you this is terrible, I don't want it, then believing becomes kind of silly unless you can edit your way to something where those metrics change.

And then on the other side, I think venture capitalists, I've met so many amazing, smart, individuals, including the folks on the Shark Tank panel. So impressed with those folks. But they don't. That's right. And I had to do that. They can. I was raising money for a floral business, e-commerce at a time when crank through pitches. And so they don't have the time to really get to know your business in the way that you know it. And so it was getting that rejection for me is it's a learning opportunity for sure. But if you're going to be an entrepreneur that raises capital, you better get used to know. That's right. And I had to do that very quickly because I was raising money for a floral business, e-commerce at a time when, especially in Los Angeles,

e-commerce was super out of favor. I was raising money for something that was long lead at a time when everybody wanted everything on demand. And so I got a lot of these types of criticisms. And you know what? At those early days, I had some metrics that were making me feel pretty good about my idea here. But I also had the courage of conviction to say, you're just wrong. I super respect you, you know, super fancy VC from the valley, but I just think you're wrong. And when you look at, you know, venture capitalist hit rates, they're very low on being right. The great ones are right, you know, X percent of the time. And so it doesn't mean that they're bad at their jobs or they're doing anything wrong.

It just means that's literally part of their job is to make bets. And so I think it's those two things, right? Focus on the metrics. Focus on what your customers and the market is telling you. And then when you don't have that, you have to have that courage of conviction to say, I'm still going to believe in this. I got easily a hundred nose before I raised my seed round, which was $1.7 million. and I still get knows today from customers, from investors, from partners, lots of people saying this is not going to be the answer.

John and the business was solving a real problem and thus customers were saying yes. So I didn't know this, John, this is fantastic. I'm like every other dude on the planet who has relied on traditional flour providers. I did not realize this, but when you get a book, which is a, you know, shorthand for flower arrangement from books, It is one to four days old. So that's around the world. That's around the country. Now, the industry average, I didn't know this, is 20 days old because the traditional model is flower farmers, if you will, sell their flowers to a distributor, then they go to a warehouse and then to a florist and then to me when I order them for my wife or my mom.

And so the reality is 20 days old is how old the flower is. is when you're getting your flowers, and you'll notice they don't last more than about three to four, maybe five days if you get lucky, versus a book, which is one to four days old and could last to two to three weeks. Now, that's the problem that John is talking about, solving. And, oh, by the way, because you're buying direct from the farmer, well, it's cheaper. So I just wanted to give you all some details here as John was rolling through that. Now, I want to go back to the story. of how Hersheyk comes back to you.

But before I do that, let's just blow these people away. Where are you guys at now? Just give us a quick metric jump. From the moment you walk out the double doors, you had some capital funding, as you mentioned, to where you're at now. Just give us a revenue jump.

Where are you at? Give us that quick snapshot. We've been growing on average since that time, a little bit north of 175% year-over-year since that time. There you go. At the time, we went on air, I want to say we were six employees will be 70 by the end of this month. Okay.

So that's the snapshot. Pretty significant growth. Yeah, that's what I wanted to get across. All right. Now, back into the story. So three years later, Hersheyvich gets married. Our audience knows this. He meets Kim Johnson on Dance with the Stars.

They fall in love. He gets married. And Robert likes to save a buck or two. How does he reach back out to you? Give me the backstory. Rick, obviously he remembers you and he rejects you. How does this happen then he reaches out to the Bookes Company? I remember it very clearly. I was sitting at my desk. I had a three o'clock call with a potential vendor or somebody. I can't remember exactly who it was, but it was going

to be a number I didn't recognize. And I was looking at my phone. It was 259, and the phone rang with the number I didn't recognize. And I thought, okay, here's my call. And I pick up the phone. I said, hey, this is John. And the other end it's, hey, John, it's Robert Herzweck from Sharfax. Tank. And I was just kind of like, uh, hi, Robert, because, you know, you don't expect Robert Herschvac to call you out of the blue. You expect somebody like Robert to have his assistant email you and try to set up a time and, you know, schedules and everything. But Robert, literally, this is the kind of guy he is, just who's in the car, going somewhere, he just decided to give me a call. And he said, hey, John, I'm getting married. Kim and I are planning a wedding and it's going to be in July. And,

you know, I really loved your business on Shark Tank. And as I've started exploring, this wedding, I've been floored by how expensive the flowers are going to be. And now it's a pretty fancy wedding. You know, it's at a really nice hotel here in Los Angeles and all those types of things. But still, you know, this is outrageous. And I always loved your display. And I thought, huh, let me see if you could maybe help me out. I told him I was flattered that he would think of us.

I would love to help him out. What should we do? And he said, well, why don't Kim and I come by and we can talk about it and tell you what we're thinking? And then we can kind of go from there. And I said, absolutely. So Robert and Kim came by, and it was awesome. We had a bunch of flowers in the space for them to check out.

You know, the whole office was a buzz with them visiting. What was great about it was I didn't have, you know, an hour and a half with Robert to really explain to him how the business worked and get into the nitty gritty of how this disruption unleashes economic power and changes the experience for the end consumer. And we had been doing weddings for about a year, maybe at that point, a year and a half, maybe. and we were saving brides somewhere around $2,300 of a typical, you know, $2,800 to $3,000 wedding flower cost in the U.S. So we were saving them, you know, 60, 70% of their flower cost.

And Robert saw that, and he was just floored when he understood that supply chain and how ultimately it gets so expensive. And that's when it clicked for him. And so what I ended up saying to Robert was, I was like, look, we'll do your wedding, and here's how much money we're going to save you. and it's going to be awesome. And you can feel great about where they came from because we know exactly where they came from.

We know these farmers do everything they can to treat their labor well and to protect the environment. So you're going to feel really great about your wedding. But now that you know all this, you said no three years ago on TV, to my steep embarrassment, but here's another chance. And there's a chance here to maybe get us to work together.

And so then I took them through sort of a really quick version of our venture investor pitch deck and got him intrigued. And then, you know, the deal came together over time, right? We had to figure out the wedding and then, and all that kind of stuff. And Robert is, I have to say, like, one of the most difficult, and I mean this in a very complimentary way, most difficult negotiators you will ever meet. And it's why he's probably an amazing business person. You know, we went around documents a couple times, but ultimately struck a deal that has been, I think, great for us. And I know Robert's really been happy to be involved in the business as well. So I couldn't be more thrilled to have him involved with books.

I love it. So that sets us up beautifully. So I want to talk about something that you provided us some thoughts. We wanted to know some things that you could share with entrepreneurs. And I love the phraseology here. The foundation is so important at the beginning because then it allows you to innovate as you scale. These are all words people understand. They understand the foundational concepts of a business. Everybody's thinking about how to innovate and scale, but there's a nice tie here. So I want you to walk us through that through your business. So you realize there's a problem and you go to solve it. Your business partner's in Ecuador. And I want you to describe what did a strong foundation, a clear foundation look like

for the Bukes company at the beginning? Sure. And one of the reasons I included that in sort of the the notes is this is something that in some respects we did a very good job of and in some respects we did a terrible job. And so from a lessons learned perspective in my journey, this is one of the things that I learned more than anything else. So when we got into this, again, sort of going back to this idea of the thesis is how do we fix the problems in the market. We did a really great job in foundationally building the structure and the model by which we would get the flowers from these farms in South America to the end consumer. You know, from the way the technology was deployed to the process the farms would use to our shipping partnerships and the economics around it, to customs,

and then to the way we distribute from there. And that's really what we focused on for kind of the first year and a half. My co-founder had built some of that before I even got involved, but we were scaling the business up and stuff through sort of organic marketing and everything. And Shark Tank certainly didn't hurt with getting awareness out there about our brand. But really what we were doing was making this supply chain work. And we knew that that was the secret to us building something different. Because if that didn't work, everything else fell apart. And so, you know, from every tiny little piece of the size of the box to how it flowed through customs, to how the flowers were packaged, we spent a ton of time on that. And we did a great job on that. And that

foundation has then allowed us to do what we've done thus far. On the flip side, where we really failed in this was around technology. And it wasn't that our technology was bad. It wasn't that it didn't work. It did everything it needed to do. But the foundation of our technology was architected by an amazing human being. One of my favorite people in the world, his name's Leo, and he was the most tireless worker. And this company literally exists because he would not accept no for an answer. He would create things himself. And Leonard made miracles happen with no resources. And he's a hero for this company, but it was his first time building something like this. And he just didn't know the ways to architect for long-term scale. And this is a very common challenge. In hindsight,

that foundation that we had was not going to make us a $100 million plus company. The way it was architected, the way it was built, essentially sort of the pieces that were put together, later on didn't allow us to innovate at the time and with the rapidity that we wanted to. And so now we're in a stage where because we've raised a bunch of money, you know, we've raised a total of $43 million, $24 million raised just a few months ago. We're now building that sort of technology that will allow us to continually innovate rapidly on user experiences and farm experiences and data and analytics and all these things that get really important as you scale a business. But that is a place where I failed our

team and not really knowing, because I was just naive, I had never started a technology company, before, just not knowing what that architecture should look like. And so it can be a great enabler. The supply chain enabled us to do so much of what we've done, from the economics of how that model works, to the products we could source that no one else could find, to the pricing we could offer, all those things. But then the technology, while it was enough to get us

sort of at each of the milestones, at some point we hit a place where we said, this isn't going to get us there. And then we had to kind of go back and take a step backwards to rebuild some things, so then we could take big leaps forward. And that's sort of where we are now, taking those big leaps forward. And you and consumers out there will see a ton of really interesting, different, unique experiences coming out this year because of that hard work we're doing right now.

Right, which I love. And see, I didn't even know about the Bukes Company until, you know, a week ago preparing for this. And I mean, okay, this is unfair to ask you this, but let's just do it as objective as you can. I mean, is the sky not the absolute limit for you in this situation? because we've already got a culture who, thanks to Amazon, right, is changing the way we buy everything. I ordered batteries on Amazon the other night just because I didn't want to go to the grocery store in my neighborhood. I mean, you know, this is not a large leap for people to go, hey, I want to get some world-class flowers. I don't care if they come from Ecuador because they're going to be awesome when they get here and they're cheaper.

That's the narrative. As you tell more people, it seems to me the sky's the limit. Is that not true? I think 100%. I think there's a couple things that we have. of sort of wins at our back around. And then there's challenges too, just like scaling any company. So, you know, I think we could be a billion dollar plus public company in three or four years. Wow. And then from there, I think we could be bigger. Because if you take just the math on how

this model works and you get it to a certain scale, it becomes just a money generating machine. Right. And so I am so excited about it. And so there's sort of what the model is and how it works, and that makes me very excited about the future. There's also all these things that we're launching this year that we've known we've needed for the last year that we haven't had. And we've still been growing the business 175% year every year. So whenever we have all those things, like who knows what the growth rate would be. And so that makes me really excited. There's also the sort of broader trend, as you mentioned, of people just moving to phone-based and digitally-based sources for shopping.

And, you know, online flowers has been around for a while. But, you know, digitally native, vertical, vertically integrated brands, the DNVBs of the world, and, you know, there's tons of them who have had amazing success, Warby Parker, Casper, my buddy Andy Dunn's company, Bonobos. They are changing the way that people shop, and we're riding that wave. And so all of those things are sort of wins at our back, helping us out. So they've said this for the last two and a half years, and I still think it's completely true. The three things that we need to make this a billion dollar company is time, which is really given to us by money and really great talent.

And if I can make sure that our company has the money to give us time and I can make sure that we can recruit awesome talent, we will get there. Short of some, you know, Black Swan event where some huge catastrophic economic event transpires or something, I see no reason why we can't get there. You know, it really comes down to just executing on the plan. The plan is sound. There's nothing that a competitor can do to stop us. There's nothing, anything other than what we do to our,

And so it really comes down to us executing very well, which does not have zero risk, right? We could not execute well. Sure. But that's my job. And that's what I spend every day thinking about every second of the day. Yeah, something you said a moment ago, I think it's so important for leaders, business, leaders, entrepreneurs specifically, because entrepreneurs aren't patient by nature. And that's a learned discipline.

And you said we have several things we're releasing this year. and those things are going to be masterful for us. And they're going to be huge. They're going to pay off. And we've known we needed to do them. But in the meantime, we've still been growing 175%. I just want you to speak to this idea that you're going to have to be patient. Stay in this foundational mindset.

And then as you said those three things, time given to you by money and adding the right talent. I think that's a huge lesson. Encourage us on that. That you're still growing and it's okay to grow. at 175%, even without those amazing things you're going to launch this year, and then growth is going to be potentially stupid growth. So speak to us on that. There's definitely an impatience in most founders, which is healthy.

You should be impatient. You should be the one setting the pace and driving everything forward. But if you try to just skip to the end where you have a billion-dollar company, it's just not possible, right? It happens. I mean, there are overnight massive companies, but that's like 0.001% of companies. If you're looking at Facebook or Uber or the latest company that raised $100 million in three weeks,

that's just unlikely to be you. And if it is you, great. I'm jealous. That's amazing. But most likely, if you're going to be a successful entrepreneur, that's not going to be your journey. And so what I try to stay focused on, and I fail at it sometimes as well, is milestones. And it's sort of like, let's set a goal that we have for six months or three months or a year. And as long as we know we're hitting that, we know we're going to have a shot to get to the next milestone.

And it's not guaranteed, but we know we have a chance at it. And so the whole way through the business, you know, year one, I said, let's do a million dollars in revenue this year. How are we going to do it? I don't know. So let's back up and let's figure out what we need to do first. It's sort of like going to Mars, right? We need to go to Mars for whatever reason.

We don't have the technology to go to Mars. Okay, so let's work backwards from the technology to go to Mars and figure out what we can actually build today. And so focusing on those milestones has made it palatable for me because I'm so impatient, but you hit a milestone, you celebrate it, you're excited about it. and the company's excited about it too. And it also gives you something very tangible to aim for. You know, the reality is in any of these journeys,

and from the outside, especially, you know, if you look at Airbnb, which is obviously just a massive success, people think of it as sort of an overnight success. They look at it and they'd be like, oh, I didn't hear about those folks, and now I hear about them every day, and they're this amazingly huge success story. It's kind of like, well, Airbnb toiled in relative obscurity for five to seven years before anybody even really knew who they were.

and they went to every VC and was turned down by every VC over and over and over again until they made it work of it as sort of an overnight success. They look at it and they'd be like, oh, I didn't hear about those folks and now I hear about them every day and they're this amazingly huge success story and it's kind of like, well,

Airbnb toiled in relative obscurity for five to seven years before anybody even really knew who they were. And they went to every VC and was turned down by every VC over and over and over again until they made it work. And there's going to be years in any journey where they're not great years.

There's going to be months where you miss your goals, you miss the milestone, you miss the metrics, or whatever it might be. But as long as you're sort of chugging along towards the end goal, and you can feel like you're on that path, you're okay. And I think as entrepreneurs, we don't want to be okay with it, and we shouldn't be sort of in the absolute. But the reality is no one builds the perfect company

and hits everything perfectly. And so sort of being able to handle that adversity and power through it, and then be able to rally your troops, your employees, your investors, and focus on that ultimate goal and keep everybody focused there rather than on the short-term issues that you might be having or the short-term wins because, you know, these things are roller coasters and the highs are never really as high as you think they are, and the lows are never really as low as you think they are. They just feel that way.

That's right. And ultimately, as those ups and downs are generally moving upward and to the right, you're going to be okay. That leads me to this because I love the answer. And, you know, there's this term that we hear a lot now, disruption, you know, it's kind of sexy and that's what you did. You disrupt. Disruption is never easy because you are taking on the industry. You're taking on mindsets, cultures, the way that consumers purchase. So you've got to disrupt a consumer's mindset. You have to disrupt venture capitalist mindset, all those things. Walk us through that. When you begin to realize, okay, wait a second, we've got something here.

This really is a different way of doing things. I want you to speak to that. And is there a way for the folks that are listening in here, John, to train themselves to think disruptively, or is it just be aware and when you see something, think it through, just speak to that? Sure. Yeah. You know, it's sort of adding on what you just mentioned before I dig into the answer is you're trying to do all those things.

You're trying to do it with virtually no resources. Right. That's right. If you think about it, you're sort of like, this is an insane thing to try to do. I'm going to take on a $50 billion industry with a total. total invested capital of $13,000 and my team being my buddy who lives in Ecuador, an intern at UCLA, an intern who's working at another company, and my mom doing customer service. That's right. And that's what we started with. And that's literally insane, which is, again, why the milestones

become so important. Because it's like, well, I don't need to do that. I just need to create something, right? And so, yeah, on the sort of mentality shift on how you think about when do you have something and how big did you want it to be? Frankly, I think this should be, and it typically is iterative, right? What I thought we were going to build on day one is not what I think we're going to build today. On day one, my thought was,

hey, if I can build a $20 or $25 million company, I can get $1,800 flowers to buy it for $50 to $75 million. And I'm going to own 30% of that thing, and I'm going to be rich. And because we had this concept that my co-founder talked about in the supply chain, I thought, yeah, we can build this thing to get there. And then as we got into it, and we learned more and more about the way things worked,

and we learned more and more about how customers were reacting to it, we thought, whoa, whoa, whoa, this is way bigger. This is way more foundational to way this industry works than just building a nice little brand that we're going to sell to somebody. And that happens over time. That wasn't like one day I realized, holy heck, like this is what we're doing. You know, over time we started seeing like, hey, this is what these metrics imply.

If we get this amount of capital and this is what we can build here, wow, that's exciting. And what about this idea? This idea would really change things. Let's try it. Oh, look at the results of that. And so, you know, you start getting feedback through the journey, whether it's through metrics or customers or investors, whatever,

that sort of tells you, wait a second, maybe I'm on to something bigger. And that iterative approach is healthy because if you start off with moonshot, hey, I'm going to build Magic Leap, which I still don't understand what Magic Leap is, but that's a moonshot from day one. We're going to raise an exorbitant amount of monies. We're going to attract literally the smartest people in the world and every top invest in the world. And we're going to fundamentally change the world works from day one.

That's amazing. If I went out to the world and said that, they'd be like, who are you, dude? Like, you worked at Disney six months ago in like a mid-level role and then you had like three months at another startup. I don't think I had the cred nor the knowledge to go with that. But what I did have the credit the knowledge to do was say, this supply chain thing here,

where there's something here. We can build something out of this. Let's attract some customers. and some capital to that. And then in that journey, the clues and the sort of the language and the conversation that the business was having with us kept saying, like, this can be bigger. Look at this opportunity. Look at this opportunity. Look at how this thing works. And so what we found over time in just operating this thing was that the opportunities just kept coming up. Now, we didn't capitalize on every single one right away. We have a long list of things that we

still want to try and do. But that result was we were growing really fast. Customers were loving the experience. Our net promoter score is 53 this month. That's a really high net promoter score in general, but super high for flowers. So for people who don't understand that, just explain what net promoter score means. Sure. Net promoter score is a methodology developed by Baining Company, a place I worked once upon a time. And it's a way of measuring customer satisfaction that isn't just a survey of how happy are you. That's the basis of it. But essentially it takes, who are the people that really love you, your eight to tens, and then it creates a ratio versus the people that dislike you, which are your zero to sixes, and then in between the six and sevens are sort of neutrals. And there's some quick

math on that that essentially gives you a ratio. And so like Amazon is an upper 60s net promoter score company. So that's really amazing. There are very few companies who are sort of in the 70s or 80s, but Amazon is the bar we measure ourselves against because they're so great. But in floral, net promoter scores tend to be very, very low in the sort of sub-30s. And so for us to be in the mid-50s already without us having a lot of the things that we plan to build, tells us, hey, we've got something here that people are really responding to. So it's not just revenue, it's not just repeat order rates, it's not just all those types of things, it's not just social media growth or whatever, it's this core measure of people are happy with our service.

That plus our farmers loving what we're doing and saying, this is transformative for my business. And now we work with florists across the country too, and them saying, we love this model. What more can we do together? So all those things told us this can be much bigger. And so we started setting our eyes on this idea of rather than building a nice, cool brand online, let's build this technology-driven platform to fundamentally change the way that flowers go from farms in South America to end consumers. And let's let anybody who wants to plug into that plug into that. And so I can't talk about some of the partnerships we have in the works right now.

but there are some huge retailers who've reached out and said, we've always wanted to work in flowers, but we never really knew how to do it, and we didn't really have a brand out there that we were super attracted to working with. How about we do something together? And we've done some smaller things with really amazing brands like anthropology and Tommy Hilfiger and Saks Fifth Avenue and Burberry.

You sort of name it, Uber. We've done a lot of really great partnerships. But again, these are all signs of us doing something I think that's on the bigger scale. And so it was really over time, we sort of iterated our thought process on what we thought we were building. And luckily for us, the capital followed. And those big dreams have been supported via venture capital investment.

And that's what we keep aiming for. Well, I got to tell you something. Folks, if you are in that disruption phase, you haven't hit critical mass yet, but you're seeing some success of your customers. I think, John, this story and some of the things you shared today is it's a shot of adrenaline. And I hope you re-listen to it a hundred times if you need to. So much great practical stuff. I've got to let you go. But before I do, this is the question burning in my head the entire time. I've saved it for the end. And I think a lot of dudes out there are wondering the

same thing. Maybe a silly question. But since you have flower farmers all around the world, if I go to your website, can I order something a little bit more exotic, unique maybe than what I'm going to get around the corner at my local florist? Absolutely. Yeah. It's one of the boy. So if I order flowers for Stacy from Ecuador, I score some bonus points. Is that fair to assume? I think so. It has that feeling of something really special. See, guys, see, this is why you listen to this podcast. I'm a man of the people. I'm thinking of you fellows. I want some flowers from Argentina. Can you do that, John? We do not have anything from Argentina yet. That's disappointing. That's disappointing. I know. I'm kidding. I just made that up. But that's the idea. That's another selling point. You could order some flowers for your wife any day of the week and twice on Sunday, but you can't get them from around the world, right, all the time.

So that's, I think, is a really cool thing. So I'm going to order some flowers from somewhere around the world just because I can. Thanks to you, John. Absolutely. Well, I appreciate the support. And thanks so much for having me today. It's been a real joy. Hey, man, we're better for it.

We appreciate you. And cannot wait to see where this thing goes. Sky is the limit. And we're real excited to have you with us, man. We appreciate you so much. Hey, if you'd like to learn more about what John is doing, of course, their web website is bux.com. That's B-O-U-Q-S.com. And where do you think I'm going to go, Eric, the producer, when I need flowers? That's where I'm going. Just one little takeaway here

on the marketing aspect and the disruption of what they've done. Okay. And then I'm going to get into some things that you can do with the word no. But here's the thing. What they have done is giving you the consumer a story that makes you feel proud and thus more motivated to buy from them. Let me tell you what it is for me. Simply put, I want to tell my wife that I saved a lot of money on flowers and they're going to last longer, babe. Like, that's the, all of a sudden, I've become the hero. So don't miss that little nugget. That is the beauty of what books and other organizations have figured out is when the consumer themselves feels like a genius for actually purchasing from them or from you. Now, as you folks know, I tell you this, I take a lot of notes

during these conversations. Eric, the producer, Will the engineer can tell you this. They're staring at me, unfortunately, for those guys, while I'm doing these conversations. And I get a lot out of these things in my mission to pull things out for you.

So this idea of rejection and hearing a no, man, this is so huge. This just never gets old. So I had some thoughts that I want to share with you. And you heard in the story, obviously that John Tavis is already successful. They've already proven that their model works, but he goes into the shark tank, obvious reasons.

He wants to maybe get ahead faster with some capital and some guys who have some connections. And it doesn't work, and he hears a no. They literally are cynical about it. But here's what's beautiful. He gets a very clear no, but he walks out of those double doors that we see on television. And he knows in his head, sure he's dealing with,

the emotions, the thoughts that come when we hear no. I mean, we're human beings. We're not impervious to knows. But he walks out and he knows in his head and his heart, hey, I still love this business. I think this is going to work. Wait a second, it is working. So I started thinking about that.

So I wrote down four words that I want to give to you quickly that I think will help you handle knows. So first, you need to reflect. When you hear a no, don't automatically bow up against it and say, you're crazy, you don't know what you're talking about. Have enough maturity. Have enough self-confidence to soak in the no. That's what I want you. I just want you to reflect.

Let's use John as an example. He heard a no, but as he's walking out those doors and as he spends a little bit of time after the fact, he can sit down and then, wait a second. Is the model working? The answer is yes. Do customers really like our service? The answer is yes. Have we already secured capital? The answer is yes.

What did they not understand about my model? You heard him talk about that in the interview. He actually learned how to pitch the idea a little bit better. He learned what he didn't do well. So here's the point. Reflect. I could spend literally 30 minutes teaching on this idea of reflecting with a no. Now, after my model, you heard him talk about that in the interview.

He actually learned how to pitch the idea a little bit better. He learned what he didn't do well. So here's the point. Reflect. I could spend literally 30 minutes teaching on this idea of reflecting with a no. Now, after you reflect, what do you need to correct? That's the second word. Correct.

After you reflect, what is it that you? need to correct again. The example I just gave John begin to correct his pitch. Maybe just maybe in their cynicism they point out some holes that are actual real holes. They may have been wrong on the hole, but maybe they're right on a few things. So while you're reflecting, begin to be honest, jot it down, ask more questions, what do I need to correct? Then, how do I redirect? I've reflected. I've reflected. I've corrected. Now, how do I need to redirect? You know, the idea here is on a no. Now, sometimes it is a clear and firm no.

But I don't have time to teach on the ugly backside of this for people who suffer from what I call RDS. I made this up. Reality deprivation syndrome. It's not a real syndrome. It probably ought to be. But these are people who just don't understand. You don't have what it takes. This is truly a horrifically bad idea. I don't have time to teach on that. But this is assuming you've got a legitimately solid idea. You've got talent. You've proven it. And you get a no. That's who I'm talking to right now. And so how do you look at a no when you have reflected? You are correcting, but you know that this thing is working. You know you're on to something. Your instincts are right. You've got some proof. That's when you turn the no into not here, not now.

Not with these people. That's what I'd like to see you do. Expand those notes. That's that redirection that I talked about in previous podcast. By the way, that was episode 157 with Brian Bafini. I spoke specifically on this idea of turning rejection into redirection, but expanding this idea now. But that's what you do with redirection.

It's okay. You've got to know here doesn't mean it's a infinitely permanent no. Not yet. Not here. now, not with these people. And then finally, after you've reflected, corrected, and redirected, make sure you connect. Reflect, correct, redirect, and connect. Start somewhere else. Move to another space. Keep moving forward. This whole concept in my mind is I give you these four words is four little handles for you. Reflect, correct, redirect, connect. I feel it's a maze. Right? I mean, this is the

entrepreneurial journey. This is the success journey. In so many ways, it's life. We move forward, and there's going to be times where we have to change directions. We hit a wall. Do we go left? Do we go right? Do we need to go backwards in order to move forward? These are the thoughts that I took away. I hope they help you. When you get nose in your life, and by the way, I think these four words reflect, reflect, correct, redirect, connect. I think they help you not just professionally in your business, but personally, relationally, and beyond. That's what I took away from John's story, and I'm going to apply those truths to my life.

I want you to do it as well. And if you would like to share your story, you are in this process, or you have some more specific questions for your specific situation. I'd love to answer this. Hey, we want to hear from you. We'll share it right here on the podcast. If you give us permission, all you got to do is say, hey, happy for you to share this, happy for you to answer this on the podcast.

Just email us, the story, the question, whatever you want to share with us. We'd love to hear from you. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. I told you had a couple announcements. Here is announcement number two. Really excited about this. We are going to be doing another Entree Leadership one day live stream.

Now, this will be the second time we have done this. That's where we do the event live. This time, it'll be here in Nashville. Now, the date is October 27. October 27, 2017, 2017, UQU of the Entree Leadership Playbook. How did Dave start Ramsey Solutions from a card table in his living room

to where now over $100 million in revenue? Third, Lardee Leadership One Day is. I host the event. Dave Ramsey, Chris Hogan, Christy Wright, speak. We essentially give you in one day a, darn good overview of the Entree Leadership Playbook. How did Dave start Ramsey Solutions from a card table in his living room to where now

over $100 million in revenue? Third largest radio show in America, which also happens to be the number one, independently owned syndicated national radio show. So what does that mean when I say that? Simply put, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, who are just above us in the rankings, they work for the man. That's what that means. Dave owns this thing.

And it's a massive thing. 600 teammates and growing. How did it all happen? What works for us? What doesn't work? Where have we failed? So that we can hopefully help you. All these things are happening in one day.

And here's the best part. An event pass is only $29. Did you hear what I just said? 29. That's the $29. You want to jump on this. Are you kidding me? You can watch it.

Last thing you did for your entire team. that you had in your mind while, I think this is going to help the team. How much it cost you? Newsflash, if you have a shop of five people and you want to take them for a show notes, take you right there, and you're going to get the early bird pricing. Now, that's the $29. You want to jump on this. Are you kidding me?

What was the last thing you did for your entire team that you had in your mind? I think this is going to help the team. How much it cost you? Newsflash, if you have a shop of five people and you want to take them for a team, you had in your mind, ice cream. It's going to cost you more than $29. Come on. Eric the producer pointed that out, by the way. I think he's right. But in other news, we should go get ice cream.

Having said that $29, early bird pricing jump on at Andreleadership.com slash E1D Live. We'd love to see you there. Hey, our friends at InfusionSoft are always bringing you great tools and resources. And here's what we're offering. supercharge your e-commerce business with marketing automation. Now, that phrase alone should get any business owner excited. I mean, wouldn't you love to have your e-commerce humming?

Well, let me tell you something. Infusionsoft knows how to help you do. It should be a main focus of your marketing. So they want to help you. So they've got a guide for you that is absolutely free as always. Here is just, and they don't just tell you. Here's what I love about Infusionsoft. They don't just tell you.

They actually give you examples. They show you. See, the show you is the power, and you're busy in focus of your marketing. How to grow your list. How to set up personalized and targeted email marketing campaigns. And they don't just tell you. Here's what I love about Infusion Soft. They don't just tell you.

They actually give you examples. they show you. See, the show you is on our. And you're busy, and Fusionself knows that. So they give you resources that show you how to do it. How do you get an automated marketing campaign going? And how do you plug it into your strategy? This is the resource.

Supercharge your e-commerce business with marketing automation. Here's how you get it. Of course, we're going to have a link for you for just the one click on our website. Entreeleadership.com. Click on podcast this episode. episode 211. It's right there. Click on the link and begin. Coming up next week, we interviewed Jeff Rosenblum. Now, people are passionate about you. As you an industry, it's got a great book called Friction, Passion Brands, So Good. Here's just a sample of what you're going to hear from Jeff.

The traditional tech. I'm with John Tapp. Is this idea of disruption? By the way, I think the subtitle to the book Friction by Jeff Rosenblum is spot on. Well, how do you build a passion brand? We're people are passionate about you in this. Brands are now built by helping people accomplish what they want to accomplish in life. It's about removing the big things that prevent them from being who they want to people, which we're now seeing over and over and over again on new media like YouTube and mobile and search and social, you name it.

So great brands are now built by helping people accomplish what they want to accomplish. Hey, write us a great. removing the big things that prevent them from being who they want to be. And it's about removing the little things that prevent them from doing what they want to do. Hey, folks, you need to be subscribing, by the way, because it'll just show up in your feed. However, you are consuming this podcast. And while I'm talking about subscribing, hey, write us a great comment if you love this, if it's adding value to you, and share it.

We are growing and it's because of you. So thank you and continue to share. half of Eric, the producer, engineer Will Rudder, and the entire Entree leadership team. Thank you for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.