EntreLeadership - #212: Jeff Rosenblum—A New Approach to Branding

Episode Date: July 10, 2017

The days of traditional advertising are quickly disappearing, so how do you get your name out there? Digital marketing expert Jeff Rosenblum joins us to share his secrets for making people passionate about your brand. Jeff is the founding partner of Questus, a digital marketing agency that has worked with some of the world’s most influential brands, including Apple, the Discovery Channel, Disney, the NFL and more. Also on the show, EntreLeader Andrew Hatfield talks about his million-dollar mistake and the lessons he learned from it. entreleadership.com/podcast Infusionsoft Marketing to Millennials Guide EntreLeadership Goal Tracker Summit 2018   Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Broadcasting from the Music City, this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, four leaders. Thanks for joining the conversation. Our feature conversation this episode is with Jeff Rosenblum. He's the author of a book titled Friction, Passion Brands in the Age of Disruption. We're also going to get into Ken's.

electronic mailbag. I love to hear from you. And you're going to hear a story from one of you. I absolutely love when Eric the producer and will the engineer bring these to us. These are men and women just like you. They're listening to the podcast. They are leading and they are winning. And here's a tease on this one. Andrew made a million dollar mistake. Ouch. You'll hear the rest of the story when we bring it to you. So all that coming to you and don't forget, We're always bringing you free resources, so pay attention. All right, it is time to open up the electronic mailbag. Ken's electronic mail.

You've got mail. This email is from Michael, and by the way, if you would like to send an email, you got a question for me. Podcast at entreleadership.com. That's podcast at entreleadership.com. All right, to Michael's email. He says, Ken, I am a new director in an organization and just started. there. I have five people under me, and I sense they might be skeptical of my leadership as I am only 23. He goes on to say that basically everybody that he is leading are in their 30s and married with

kids, and they don't like change, not receptive to change. I could just hear some of you out there chuckling. I love this, 23-year-old leader. I love it. I love it because he's getting honest. So Michael, I'm going to be honest with you. So here are his two basic questions. I'm shortening the email. How do I gain short-term credibility? And then how do I begin to transition decisions, obviously, as a leader? And so, he says, I'm ignorant of so many things in leadership, and I have plenty to learn.

Okay, so I love this. Absolutely love this. First of all, those of you out there who understand this scenario, as you're listening into this, don't check out. Be thinking of that young leader maybe in your organization who probably is thinking and feeling similar thoughts. Okay, so first question is there a quick way to gain short-term credibility? Yes. Here's how you do it, Michael. Number one, you're going to have to do it relationally.

The quickest way to gain credibility is relational. Now, they may still have some doubts about your ability to lead in that role, but if you work hard, at building a solid relationship with that team of five that you are charged with leading, they're going to initially begin to like you because you're being good relationally, and then they're going to begin to trust you. So you've got the relational side of this deal, all right? And that gives you the grace and the mercy that you're going to need as a 23-year-old leader. So some 23-year-olds think, okay, I got to figure out how to lead tactically to gain credibility.

And here's the reality. You're 23. You will learn how to lead tactically, but it's going to take time. What gives you more time? Relational credibility. If they like you, Michael, they will begin to trust you, again, relationally. Okay. Michael's a good guy. Michael's humble.

So I'd go, and if you haven't read it, Michael, I'd get the ideal team player because even though you were in a leadership role, you need to figure it how to be a team player with the five people you're leading. Humble, hungry, smart, people smart. Go read the book by Pat Lynch, you know, go listen to the podcast if you haven't already. Go re-listen to it if you have. I don't care how many times you've listened to it, listen to it five more times. Because relational credibility will give you you. more time to earn the tactical credibility. So, right out of the gate, hey, here's who I am, here's why I am this way.

I value you all. I need your input as I lead. I want your feedback constantly. By the way, I want you to shine a mirror in my face. I'm 23. I don't have it figured out. Here's what I do have figured out. I want to be at this company.

I want to be in this role. and I want to lead you well. But I know it's going to take time. So I need your feedback constantly and consistently. I need your feedback. But after you give me the feedback, understand that in the leadership role, I'm going to have to make some decisions. And I want you to support me knowing that I'm going to learn from my failures. Michael, let me give you a couple things that you can do practically to build this relational credibility.

number one, build in a weekly meeting where the entire team is together. And again, you are showering them with praise, out of boys, out of girls, listening to them, providing them the opportunity for feedback in a group environment. And then I'd add one more step. You got a small team of five. So this is very doable. Get one-to-ones. Whether that's weekly or bi-monthly, whatever.

You figure that out. but do a group communication time and then do one-on-one and then really hammer home the open-door policy for them to give you feedback. I think if you do those three practical things, you will begin to do what I said to do, which is work so hard on the relationship credibility so that they give you more grace and mercy to earn the tactical credibility. And then just really, truly be humble and care for these folks. Get to know them. Love on them. Reward them. That's that relational credibility that'll give you time because they're going to give you grace and mercy when you mess up tactically. And they go, okay, this is a good guy.

He wants what's best for me, what's best for our team, and what's best for the organization. That's what you've got to do, Michael. And then listen, when it's time to lead, forget your age. When you've done everything that you're supposed to do, you've got their feedback, you've talked to the team, you've talked to your your superiors, and it's time for you to lead, lead. Don't worry about being 23. So there you go. Hey, one more time, Michael, thanks for the email, and we'd love getting emails from me.

If I can answer a question for you. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Email me, podcast at entreleadership.com. Our feature interview, as I said, is with Jeff Rosenblum. Now, you know, I get questions from time to time when I meet you folks out on the road or over Twitter. How do you choose your guests? Well, we don't have time to unpack that process, but what we do in the choosing process is look really hard at the content.

Does it meet your felt needs, which you have shared with us very plainly on our podcast survey last year? And when I looked at this title, Friction, Passion Brands in the Age of Disruption, when I think of an entree leader, I know they're passionate about what they're doing. So therefore, you're leading or you're a part of a passion brand. Now we live in 2017 where disruption is the name of the game. You have to be aware of it. You got to be good at it. And on and on and on the cycle goes. So this is so important.

If you remember last week's episode, John Tabas really modeled this idea of disruption. He disrupted the flower industry. So where do you need to be on guard against disruption from competitors? Where do you need to be looking for disruption opportunities to help your brain? That's why we're having the conversation. Let's get right to it. Here is my conversation with Jeff Rosenblum. He is Jeff Rosenblum.

The book is entitled Friction, Passion Brands in the Age of Disruption, and I love everything about that entire book title. So before we break it down, let's talk about friction. We all know what the word friction means, and all of a sudden our minds are running wild with maybe friction in our own lives. But you entitled the book, Friction. Why? Why is that word so important to what you're writing? we use the word friction because we wanted to have one very simple word to summarize how we think passion brands are built and friction quite simply is anything that stands in the way of what we

want to accomplish in life and we think that great brands are built when they remove friction from people's lives all right and so how do we remove it big point here how do we and there's a lot here in the book give us the summary on this and then we'll break this down let's let's look at the history of advertising and how great brands are built for a second so we could put the answer in context. Typically, great brands have been built over time through traditional advertising. And when I say traditional, I don't just mean TV, radio, and print. I also mean the traditional technique of interrupting people, which we're now seeing over and over and over again on new media like YouTube and mobile and search and social, you name it. So great brands are now

built by helping people accomplish what they want to accomplish in life. It's about removing the big things that prevent them from being who they want to be. And it's about removing the little things that prevent them from doing what they want to do. So in essence, great brands are built by taking a portion of their budget that's spent on traditional interruptive advertising and putting it towards content, experiences, and platforms that actually remove friction from people's lives. It's about providing true value to them. Boy, now, we've heard this a lot. I've never heard it put that way. So break down those three ways that brands are now winning by not just disrupting, but adding value. You said content,

experiences, and what was the third one? Platforms. So break that down. Yeah, they're all highly interrelated. But the way we view it is, A platform typically sits in a hub and spoke model, which means there's one big idea, but then it extends across the entire consumer journey. So right now, people use Facebook, Instagram, search, mobile, you name it. There's an infinite number of places where people interact with a brand, whether they're a prospect or a customer. And typically what brands are doing is they're buying a lot of media and they're interrupting people on those channels. We believe that there should be a hub to all of this.

And this hub is one big tool, right? When we say content and experiences, it's a tool. It's some way that improves people's lives that's authentic to the category. And then the spoke is every single one of those aforementioned touch points is related to that central platform. So instead of having a series of disparate ideas and interruptions throughout the entire consumer journey, these are all small steps that are improving people. people's lives. And I think the important thing is it's not just improving people's lives. People don't wake up in the morning expecting brands to sort of hug the trees and save the manatees and just sort of make their lives better. That could be really inauthentic. It has to be

something authentic to the brand and relevant to the category. Okay. Give us an example or two of a brand that is doing what you just described. Absolutely. So what we talk about is MacWall Friction and Micro friction. And macro friction are the big things that sit within a category. And micro friction are the little things that sit within a relationship. So to answer your question, let's talk about macro friction because it's really cool and exciting. And my favorite brand in this category is Patagonia. The macro friction that sits in their category, which is outdoor gear and apparel, is this.

the products that we create to enjoy in the great outdoors actually damage the great outdoors. Every time you create a new jacket, well, we create garbage as consumers with our old jackets, and Patagonia creates manufacturing byproducts with a new jacket. So what they've done is they've built an educational platform, and they have content and experiences that help people, people understand how to defend the environment more effectively. So one of them is something called the Footprint Chronicles. And what you can do is actually pick a product that you're interested in purchasing.

Let's say a new pair of board shorts. And their basic point is this. You know how those board shorts can dry in about 45 seconds after jumping in the ocean? Well, guess what? Mother Nature did not create those products. When we, Patagonia, create those products that are manufacturing byproducts. And what we don't want to do, or what Patagonia doesn't want to do, is try to paint this rosy picture about how great they are. What they actually do is expose some of their own behavior in their supply chain.

And it shows the actual negative impact in the environment as that product is purchased, which is kind of crazy. They're actually outing themselves for some of the negative impact that they have on the environment. But what they're doing is they're actually educating people. And education is one of the most powerful forms of empowerment. They're helping people make more educated purchases. So when we talk about that hub and smoke bottle, that's just part of the platform. And so, for example, they actually ran a campaign called Don't Buy This Jacket. And it was literally a picture of a beautiful Patagonia jacket.

They ran it as a New York Times ad. They ran it on the homepage of their website. And the point is, reduce, reuse, recycle. The number one thing is reduce. So again and again, what they're doing is educating people about the negative impact on the environment. And then, of course, doing all these smart things like donating a portion of their proceeds to environmental causes, etc. But if you look at the entire consumer journey, every single place that Patagonia interacts with their audience, they're educating people about how to defend the environment.

Okay. And you're saying that their particular customer, that matters greatly to them. So therefore there is a huge connection point. Yeah, that's exactly right. So what happens is when you behave in this way as a brand, what you garner are brand evangelists. And brand evangelists will carry the advertising or they will carry the brand message much more effectively than a paid advertisement ever could.

In fact, research shows that recommendations from friends or even strangers are up to 12 times as influential. as paid advertisements. So think of it right now. I'm up on your podcast and I'm reaching all of your listeners and I'm sharing that Patagonia story. But much more important, there's the truly influential people, right? The people who are leading fly fishing trips and kayaking trips and hiking trips. By definition, these leaders are very influential and they are covered from head to toe with Patagonia gear because they love the brand and they love what that brand stands for. And when people see those recommendations, either stated verbally or unstated through the gear and the products that they're using, they are much more likely to purchase from Patagonia.

So sometimes when you see that campaign, don't buy this jacket. It happened to me, I didn't buy the jacket, right? They lost the sale in the short term. But what they got in the long term was my unwavering loyalty. And what they're gaining in the long term through all these platforms is an army of evangelists. And here's another example of a brand that I absolutely love. It's a relatively small, relatively young restaurant company called Sweet Green. And literally driving down the streets of New York City, I see lines around the corner because these guys are removing friction in every way possible, which is basically what they're doing is offering people healthy, delicious meals.

That is not particularly unique. But what they're doing is removing friction at every single touch. point. So the one that I love is I can completely bypass that 45 minute line with four clicks on their app where I can, using geo-targeting, it knows exactly where the nearest location is. I can, with two clicks, get through their entire menu. With a couple more clicks, I can customize the meal. And then one more click, I automatically purchase it and earn loyalty points. But then I just go downstairs, go across the street, and it's waiting for me. I don't even have to show the app. I don't have to show a receipt. It's just sitting there waiting for me

with my name right on the meal. Or if I purchase multiple meals, yeah, they're putting multiple meals already in a bag with my name on it. Now, this doesn't seem revolutionary or mind-blowing, but how many restaurants are there and how many restaurant chains are there? And how few are capable of actually removing those really annoying pieces of friction? And what you're seeing, again, with Sweet Green is an army of evangelists. People absolutely love this brand because it's not only delicious, but more importantly, it is really, really easy to interact with that company. Yes, that is beautiful. I mean, that's such a great example of removing the friction and winning big with your customers. Okay, so that's a great couple examples of macro friction. Take us through,

what does micro friction look like? Who's winning in this particular area? So micro-fiction is the little annoying things that sit at the relationship level between a brand and a customer, right? Think about when you buy a product and you can't open the packaging without a machete because it's all sealed and plastic, right? Think about when you get on an airplane and you can't read the boarding pass because everything is in size 11 font and there's an infinite number of messages on that boarding pass but you can't even find the gate, right? There's so many pieces of micro-friction. But interestingly enough, so many of these pieces of micro-friction now are digital in nature because we now interact with brands in literally dozens and dozens of ways through our mobile and social and digital connections.

So one of the examples that I love, because I think when you hear the example of Patagonia, when you hear the example of Sweet Green and a lot of other examples, people are like, well, you know, that's outdoors, that's food. Those are really cool categories. But USAA is a brand where 92% of their customers say they want to stay with USAA for life. That's fundamentally higher than any financial service company that I'm aware of. That's loyalty figures and satisfaction figures that rival Apple. And one of the things that they did, and it's important to note that a lot of their customers are veterans or are currently serving in the military.

and they put all of their focus into customer service. It's just world-class customer service. But one of the ways that we see that come to life with digital is you can actually take a picture of a check and then deposit it directly into your bank using USAA, which I'm sure all your listeners are saying, well, I can also do that with my bank. The interesting thing is that USAA developed that technology. And they did it because they knew that many of their customers were serving overseas in the military. And the only way to actually deposit those checks easily was to create a new technology. So they created something based upon a very intimate understanding of their customer, a very strong value system that said we want to remove friction and make our brand very easy to work with.

And then they invested in that technology. And all the other financial service companies, all they could do was come up with a Me Too approach and copy or license that technology. So good. Now, Jeff, you assert in this book that fighting friction should be a top priority. I know you're passionate about that. I think you're making a great case here. What I want to ask you to do is give us the process.

The book unpacks all of this. But I'm listening right now. Our listeners are going, okay, okay, I've got to figure out this friction thing. What's the process? Give us a simple, practical process to begin assessing and then improving in this area of removing friction. Yeah. We really focused on the book on trying to make the book as actionable as possible. What we didn't want to do was, as we've all seen with some business books, they make a great point in the first chapter and then it becomes somewhat redundant.

So we tried to cover a story arc and make it actionable as possible. And I think the short answer to your question is this. Ask yourself this one simple question. How can I help my customers get more value out of my category. We've all seen huge strategic plans, 80 pages of PowerPoint, but if you just start with that one question, how do I help people get more value out of my category, right? It might be airline travel, it might be restaurants, it might be outdoor sports and apparel, it might be financial services, but there's such a great way to give yourself a starting point. Now, the longer answer is we've developed something that we call the brand hierarchy. And much like Abraham Maslow and his hierarchy of needs for human beings,

where it talks about food, water, shelter, in ultimately happiness and self-fulfillment, his point is you have to deliver upon those bottom layers of the hierarchy before you can get to the top layers. You can't be happy and self-fulfilled if you're starving to death. And we think brands also have a hierarchy. Fortunately for most brands, but very fortunately for your listeners and entrepreneurs, because there's a huge opportunity here, most brands have built their hierarchy upside down. And what they're doing is spending the lion's share of their budget on advertising. And advertising is still extraordinarily powerful.

We're just asking it to do too much. So what we recommend is take that creative firepower, and instead of pointing it outward at advertising, point it inward at your own behavior. So the first here is what we call frictionless leadership. And this is all about making sure that everybody within an organization knows what your mission is, what your values are, and then build a communication cadence to make sure that everybody is aligned. And we've uncovered a lot of data. And as straightforward as that recommendation might sound, it turns out that only about 1% of organizations are nailing that. Once you nail that, you can move on to the next stage, which is what we call frictionless

categories. That's removing macro friction. That's the example of, say, Patagonia, where it doesn't matter if people are actually buying from you, like Patagonia, you can learn all about how to defend the environment without actually buying from Patagonia. But when you can elevate everybody in an entire category, that's when you create those brand evangelists. The next stage is what we call frictionless commerce, and that's micro-friction.

That's the example like Sweet Greens and USAA, which means make the interactions between you and your customers extraordinarily easy. And that's getting tougher and tougher every day because we went from desktop computers to mobile computers. We went from mass media to social media. Now we're moving into wearable technology and technologies like a lot. Alexa where there's not even screens and you talk to your computer. And what we're finding is everything that makes things easier to buy for customers actually makes

it harder for brands to sell because they have to manage and connect all this technology. So that's the next rung is making that commerce and that relationship frictionless. And then the final part of it is what we call frictionless advertising, which means once you have great leadership and a great brand platform, then and only then can you invest in advertising to start driving traffic to these platforms that you've built. Because if you behave like Patagonia or Sweet Green and nobody knows about it, it's not going to work very well. So you have to ultimately invest in advertising. That's the final part of it, just like Maslow's hierarchy, happiness is extraordinarily important. You just have to manage the chronology of the process.

Jeff, I want to go back with a quick follow-up because I think you made an important point that we have discussed from time to time on this podcast, but it needs to be repeated and refreshed. And you were talking about the importance of making sure that the process with your customers, the interaction is easy. And you said it's difficult to kind of put all that together with technology. Also technology, Jeff, it seems, is making it more tempting for us to make the purchase or the interaction more complex because we offer something simple. it goes boom boom and then the customer says or a few people super passionate of people say oh I want this this and this and we start iterating and you do too much I want you to speak to that because that's a real temptation and all of a sudden in your desire to add value which is something you're preaching to us we end up making it too complex I want you to speak to that we refer to that

as fight for simplicity simplicity doesn't happen complexity happens naturally and I don't know why but there is a gravitational pull towards complexity. And maybe the reason is, as we develop our interaction points with our customers, meaning we develop our website, we develop our mobile site, we develop our apps, etc., we look at them and we use them for hours and hours and hours and hours before they go live. So we get used to it. So it's easy for us to say, wait, why don't we add this feature? Why don't we add this function?

I've spent the last 25 years approximately conducting research with various customers. And a lot of it I do just in one-on-one conversations. And what I've never had, ever, thousands and thousands of these interactions, I've never had anyone stand up, smack the table, and say, this thing is too damn easy. It just never happens, right? Nobody gets insulted by making something extremely easy. And, you know, if you're fortunate enough to have older family members, you know, maybe they're in their 60s or 70s.

Those are great people to speak to because you should be able to create something that maybe people who are not extremely technologically savvy who grew up with different ways of interacting with brands. If they can interact with whatever you're developing, your site, your mobile app, et cetera, then you've got something that will work for the masses. But you can't invert that model. If you can make something that's easy for a 28-year-old to grow up this way, it doesn't mean the entire audience will. So you really need to iterate. You really need to fight for simplicity. And you really need ongoing feedback from prospects and customers.

All right. I want to talk a little bit more about passion because you have touched on that. And it's in the subtitle of the book, Friction, passion brands in the age of disruption. And what I want you to speak to, Jeff, is I believe there's a felt deed here. And we've got people listening and they're going, I certainly want to have a brand that is described as a passion brand. I want our customers to be evangelist.

We all want that. But for the business leader who is honest enough to say, I don't think we're there. We haven't done that right. I believe, Jeff, they've got some customers, maybe not a lot, that are passionate. So for the organization, the leader of a business where they know they're not a passion brand, they've got to have a couple of customers at the very least that are. are passionate. So here's the question with that being the setup. What do they do with the people who are passionate to begin to mine from them what is working and then reproduce that

with other customers who've yet to reach that point? So look, we're in the relationship business, right? If you're an entrepreneur, you're in the relationship business and you're trying to build a relationship with your prospects and you're trying to build a relationship with your customers. And the key to success with any relationship is listening skills. And I think the number one thing is ask these people. Ask them why they're passionate about the brand. Ask them if they can help in any way. If you've got very few customers, pick up the phone, meet them in person. If you've got a lot, use your digital connections. But the other thing is how do you create more of them? is I think the critical factor.

And what we believe is it's a value equation. And people love homeostasis, which is balance in their life. And I think what brand should be doing is giving more value than people are paying for. So if you go back to Patagonia, they charge a premium for their shirts and all their other gear. And when you buy it, you not only get that product, but you're actually getting more. You're getting defense of the environment. You're getting education. You're getting a larger experience in a larger platform.

And what we believe is at a subconscious level, people don't like that imbalance. They want that homeostasis. And the only way for them to find that balance is to recommend the brand to friends, which means they're going to sit in the bar. They're going to sit at the dinner table. They're going to sit at the side of a river. They're going to buy the hat and wear the logo. they're going to find balance by proselytizing for the brand.

So the action item there is you have to tip the value equation and give more than people are actually paying for. And the really interesting part of that is people will pay a massive premium. So when I say value, this doesn't mean lowering the price. In many ways, it means raising the price, but actually giving more than folks are paying for. And that's going to motivate them to recommend the brand. to their friends. Yeah, that's good. But boy, that creates, I just know that creates trepidation among our audience. I just know it does. Oh my gosh, Jeff. Raise the price. And there's a certain amount of

fear with this initiative to say, okay, I've got to start providing more value. It doesn't mean I have to cut into my profit. But how do they step into that fear and begin to try some things? Talk about testing, because I believe so much in testing. So for somebody who's never really done this, at least from an exercise of how much value are we providing with our goods or services, and we need to be providing more, but they don't quite know how to step into that. What would you say to them? You're covering a lot of good points there. So first of all, I don't necessarily recommend raising prices, and nor am I actually brave enough to follow that advice myself, right? The prices at my agency tend to be fairly industry standard as much as I would love to be

brave enough to raise and charge a premium. So I completely understand that. The second thing is, okay, well, how do I invest in creating value when I'm already operating at slim margins or I'm a new startup? What we found is test into it by taking approximately 20% of your paid media budget and put it towards content and experiences. So, you know, if you're fairly well established, you might be running an ad campaign that's going to sit in digital, it's going to sit in print, maybe even on TV, right? Take 20% of that and put it towards content and experiences. If you're a smaller organization, you're relatively a startup, you're still probably spending

some of that money, some of your dollars on small campaigns that might sit in search, it might sit in Facebook campaigns. It's amazing how much you can do with a very small budget. But what we would say is cut into that budget even more. Take 20% of it and put it towards creating content and experiences. And then the next question is, okay, what is that content and experience? Well, that goes back to that aforementioned issue, which is how do you help people get more value out of your category? Brainstorm about what the answer to that question is and try to apply 20% of your paid media budget to it.

And through that, you're going to not only build evangelists, like we mentioned, before, but you're probably going to get some natural search traffic because so many of these experiences are digital in nature. So people are going to be much more likely to find you, not just from recommendations, but through actual digital behavior, things showing up higher in Google, things being mentioned more frequently in Facebook, etc. All right. So I want you to break down the difference between content and experience because I think a lot of people go, okay, I get the value added content. They've heard a lot of that on this podcast, you know, giving people valued content. But experience means.

a lot of different things. And you just said a moment ago that most of those would be digitally delivered. So let's break that down. Let's talk about the difference between a digital experience, what you define that as, what does that look like, and then maybe a physical experience for lack of a better phrase. Yeah, they're actually very similar. Content seems to imply one way. I'm creating an article. I'm creating a story. Maybe I'm making a video. Experiences have a two-way interaction. And going back to your question about, you know, everybody seems to have a few brand evangelists. How do we tap into them more? Well, an experience asked them to participate because people don't just want one-way stories anymore. They want to participate in the story. They want to

help create the story. They want to provide content additionally. And you might see that very frequently in the offline world. If you're having a conference or an event or a party, people are participating. But more and more, what we're seeing is people having those experiences created digitally. So instead of just saying, hey, here's a one-way story with text and video, ask people to participate and expand upon that story. Ask them how to create more value out of the category. And a lot of that comes to the creativity of you need to create a platform for them, provide some technology for them.

But so many people right now can not only create stories through text, but so many people create videos, right? We all have supercomputers in our pockets called smartphones. So how do we tap into that and have people participate in the experience? You've really tapped into something for me. My mind is racing while listening to you. So I'm going to ask you if this is an example. This is a personal example. So always have loved sports, grew up, big fan of sports, played everything I could possibly play. And I remember when Nike first came out with the ability for you to go online and design your own shoe. And I got to tell you, Jeff, I spent hours designing a shoe. Because for me, I'm very creative. I like that. I thought, oh, I get to put my personal stamp on

this shoe. You could even put a message on your heel. Now, that's no longer new. In fact, I just did it on a pair of golf shoes. Footjoy does it as well. I got designed my own golf shoes. And you know what I did, Jeff? I showed both of those shoes years apart to everybody that was in my circle. I was a little bit proud. Hey, I designed this shoe. Is that a an experience? Is that an example of experience? Or am I wrong? It's a phenomenal example, right? Content, and there's nothing wrong with it, is, hey, we're Nike, and here's a bunch of different colors of our shoe, or here's the history of Nike, or whatever they want to say, which is one way. They turn that into not only two-way, but they've actually connected the digital

world with the physical world. Right. And not only did they, here's the crazy part, is it goes back to your investment. When you create these platforms, they're very, very, very, you're very frequently not just investment because in that equation you actually bought from them. You paid for that experience and then they turned you into a walking ad campaign. You're out on the golf course and you and all your buddies are talking about footjoy. We're here on this podcast. Now we're talking about Nike and footjoy, right? So what's happening is these platforms that are not just marketing platforms, their commerce platforms and marketing platforms. Oh, folks, if you got nothing else out of the podcast. Rewind that. Commerce and marketing platforms. That's what we're

talking about, right, Jeff? I mean, when you can do that and it turns out to be experience and evangelism all wrapped into it, then we're winning. Absolutely. Wow, fantastic stuff. And I got to tell you, Jeff, just an aside, the golf shoes are fantastic. You know, they really are. I mean, you know, and I'm having some fun with this, but, you know, that's such a personal thing all of a sudden, because you designed it. And so how do we? in all these different walks of life as far as channels or marketplaces, as you've been saying, how do you find that connection point? That is such a huge, huge thing. Do you in the book go into deeper examples for folks? Yeah, there's lots of examples, but let's riff on the footjoy example

because I think it's a great one. So 15 minutes ago, I did not think footjoy was a particularly cool company. Now, right? Now, I think they're cool. Why? Why do you think they're cool? Because you're influential, you have a podcast, you just mentioned the brand, and more importantly, you mentioned specifics about the experience that seem really appealing to me. I spent 90 minutes designing two different shoes and literally Jeff, agonized over which design I wanted to go with. I had a listener actually copped me a pair. He works for footjoid. He caught me. He puts me on this website. It was like Mr. Potato Head. Yeah. Get to create my own shoe. Okay. So let's bring it full circle. Macro friction is how do we elevate the entire category, which is they just made footwear on the

golf course, not historically cool. They just made it much cooler. Right. Micro friction is the experience was really easy for you. You would not have spent 90 minutes on that site if it was annoying and frustrating, right? So that's macro and micro friction. But let's also take it back to the root of this story, which is if Footjoy bought a print ad, I might not see it. And if they told me that the brand is super cool, I probably wouldn't believe it, right? If they ran a banner ad or a YouTube ad, by the way, you have a better mathematical chance of surviving a plane crash than clicking on a banner ad, right? That's the actual number there. Wow. And like, you could take the smartest, coolest, most creative copywriter in the world who comes up with something that says, footjoy is really

cool. There's very little chance I'm actually going to believe it. Right. But when you, when you tell me foot joy is cool, and you give me a very specific reason, which is you could customize it, and then you talk about the lifestyle, which is you're out on the course with your buddy, you're probably drinking a beer, you're probably all smiling, you're talking about footjoy. I could picture that in my mind. You just shifted me all the way down the sales funnel. I went from aware of the footjoy brand through perceptions into very interested. I'm going to go on that website within the next hour.

They might convert me. That is the power of an experience compared to an ad. But here's the important part. Advertising still has a critical role because if we didn't have this conversation, I would not know about this platform. So instead of advertising, carrying the entire brand story and saying foot joy is cool, all it has to do is be a gateway to that immersive experience. So it's footjoy, check out our new customized shoes.

And now I'm much more likely to click on it because I'm entering into an experience, not just one-way communication all about how cool foot joy is. Yeah. Wow. Very fun. I didn't mean to give all the advertisement out. But that was an example for me where, again, I began to put this together. And thanks for walking me through that because I think our audience learns a lot from that as well.

All right, there's so much in the book. And we've got to let you go. I think this is a super, super practical book. Going to make people think it's going to disrupt us, but in a good way. And you've really done a good job of laying out, okay, here's the friction. Here's how passion brand avoids the friction in an age where we are fighting harder and harder, because intention spans are shrinking and shrinking. Final word from you, Jeff.

What do you want the reader to walk away from in reading this book? If there was only one thing, like if you could sit down with our entire audience, we've got hundreds and hundreds of thousands of listeners. And you were to say, okay, you just finished the book. Thanks for reading it. Please do this. What would you say? When you want to build your brand, figure out how you can improve people's lives.

It's that simple. And it's not for altruistic reasons. to make people's lives simply better or make you simply feel better. That is the proven model to build a passion brand. When you improve people's lives, research shows very often you can outperform the competition at a level of 8 to 1. So the action item is, and it's not easy, right? It's not going to come to the top of your head instantaneously, but spend a lot of time

thinking about how can you improve your customer's lives. When you do that, you'll build an army of evangelist, and the byproduct will be massive financial results. Good word there. He is, Jeff Rosenblum, the book is Friction. Passion Brands in the Age of Disruption Run, go get it. As he said earlier, this is not a theory book. This is a very practical book that will help you begin to take steps. If you're not a passion brand, take the steps to get there and absolutely remove the friction where you need it. Jeff, this is good. We could talk forever, but we'll help. We don't have the time. And I'm very excited to find out if you actually go get the Footjoy golf shoes. If you don't play a lot of golf, they may not be as practical for you. But if you like to get out on the links, I'm telling you, you put your own personal design on them. And buddy boy, everybody's going to go, hey, Jeff's got some great shoes.

I'll be on the course and I'll be up on social media proselytizing for footjoy. Hey, man, thanks for being with us. We're better for it. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. I love the podcast. Keep up the great work. Jeff's company, by the way, is Questus. That's Questus.com, Q-U-E-S-T-U-S.com. We also have a link for you in the show notes.

How many times a week do you hear the word millennials? I guess it's a lot. I'm predicting it's probably a lot. Would you like to know how to market to millennials because they are becoming a massive, massively influential block in America? Let me just give you a snapshot. Millennials replaced Gen X. year as the largest demographic in the workforce. So that just gives you a snapshot of where they're at. That means they're also really important buyers. So do you want to learn how to market to millennials? Good news.

Infusion soft has figured it out. And not only have they figured it out. They want to help you. So it's a free guide and it's going to answer big questions like, what do millennials care about when making a purchase? Should I market to millennials online or offline? That's just two of the monster questions they're asking and answering. Folks, let me tell you something.

I can't say this enough. The stuff, the tools, the resources that we bring to you from our friends at Infusionsoft are things that we use. You need to jump on this. So here's the deal. We've got a link in this episode's show notes at entreleadership.com. Just click on podcast and go to this episode. It's episode 212 and go get the link. It's free and it's going to help you.

And while you're thinking about resources, the Entree Leadership team has a great goal tracker tool. We're bringing this back to you. This is always popular. This was one of our most popular resources we gave away last year. And here's the reality. I look up this morning and summertime is not only upon us, it's threatening to leave quickly. So it's not too late to set goals. Hey, look at the goals that maybe you set early on or at the end.

end of last year or early on this year. Hey, where are we at? What goals can we reset or recharge or, hey, let's just throw those away and set new goals? This is a fantastic tool, not just for you, but for your team. It's the goal, the action plan, and the target date, and so much more. Here's how you get the goal tracker and really help you and your team. Text goals 2017, Goals, 2017, text that to 33444.4. Or again, the link will be in this episode. Show Notes. Episode 212, Entree Leadership.com.

We saw a note come in on the Entree Leadership All Access Facebook page, and boy, the community there is absolutely fantastic. And if you'll recall, I said, this guy made a million dollar mistake. Now I'm going to tell you something. If I made a million dollar mistake, I don't know that I'd be able to sleep. I would just be walking around in dry heaves. You know what I mean? Just constantly throwing up.

What's wrong with that guy? He lost a million dollars. I'd just be yacking all over the place. Nothing coming out. I mean, you know, the guys behind the glass are grimacing right now. But hey, that's the reality. That is the visceral reaction that I would have if I lost a million dollars, whether it be my money or somebody else's.

Aye, y'ay, y'ay. But Andrew lost it. He didn't crawl in a cave and give up. This story's so great. Let's get right to it. My name's Andrew Hatfield. I'm a mechanical engineer by schooling, and I sell custom air conditioning equipment

and sell products that we build to customer specifications for like Google, Facebook, data centers, high-end tower building. So not the air conditioning you see out in your backyard. As of October, a new owner with the company. So I was able to buy in. And so where I got into, this is, you know, I started getting to a position where more and more responsibility was on my

shoulders and not just go out and sell stuff, but now I'm supposed to, you know, encourage the people in the office and teach and lead and all that kind of stuff. And I had no clue what I was doing. And what got me to post on the Entry Leadership Facebook page was just, like I said, at a really bad week at work. I was just distraught. One night it was just 1 a.m. in my office and I stumbled on the Entry Leadership podcast. And it was the little clip that they were playing at that. that time was Dave. He does that point where, you know, he gets really excited and really emphatic. He says, I am the problem, but I'm also the solution. And I have no clue what happened, but when he said that, it was just like a light went off in my head. I realized that I had the

power to start shaping and fixing the problems through my leadership, not by Fiat, you know, that I had the ability to preempt issues, that I had the ability to train people, and that if I learned to communicate what I wanted better and more clear, I could avoid all of these crappy things that had just happened, that was why I was lying there at 1 a.m. in the morning going, what the heck am I going to do?

Yeah, so that's what happened. If you're not growing, you're dying, and I didn't realize that yet, so I had made some mistakes that if I had been staying up to date on some of the code issues that I should have been doing, I was expecting people to catch these for me. I was not doing what I should have been doing. And so I got into a contract with a customer.

I had bid and quoted a project, and I'd put together all the design work for it. And then a couple weeks later, while we were well into the contract, we found out that I did it wrong. The factory that I put it together through did not have the most updated info on their website. I had to come back and revise what I had put together. and it wasn't going to work for the contractor.

And then the day later, I get a call from the president of the factory we were working with, and he says, hey, we could have fixed this out if you called me. And that's when things went really south because I lost it on, you know, the president of one of our largest contractors. You know, why don't your employees know this? Why don't they contact you and ask for it? Because I had been working with their team pretty feverishly for about two weeks to figure out a solution. And I'm just like, well, why didn't you guys call you the head of it?

the place you work. And one of the things I realized is that I was always expecting people to do things for me, like, you know, expecting that people know what to do. And sometimes didn't realize that the people who worked at the fact that they didn't know that they could go. They had the set of rules they thought they had to follow. And they didn't realize that they could ask if there was ways to, you know, if there were design alternatives to get around them. And so if I had reached out above them, I could have figured it out. So the issue was definitely communication. I struggle a little as a lazy communicator, just following up on things, making sure that people know what's expected of them. And then it could also be clarity. But I am very prone to just handing things off to people and saying, here, I expect you to do this.

And then coming back in two weeks and go, hey, why isn't this done? Or why didn't you do it right? And so follow up, staying involved, and then finding out early if there's an issue so that I can elevate it to the appropriate. level that it needs to be elevated. That's what I could have done on this project and I realized it after the fact, unfortunately. It was a painful lesson to learn, but it was good because now I have kind of a system for these kind of unique and critical design projects. And I worked out with factory that I'm going to get them involved up front before any issues present so that we can avoid these issues in the future. So this happened like six weeks before summit and then I started binge listening

to the Entre Leadership podcast, I heard that there was still a couple spots left, so I signed up, and I went, and it was fantastic. And as an engineer by trade, like the whole kind of business side of thing, sales side of thing, it's different. I'm numbers, I'm equations, straight lines, angles, those types of things I'm really good at.

But going to the summit was great for me because I started learning that I can grow as a person. I mean, it sounds silly, but I never even thought that I could start putting in just like a daily routine so that I can grow. I mean, I just, I hadn't even thought of that. I mean, the number one thing is just that I didn't realize how much power is the wrong word, just how much influence you could have just by communicating, leading, setting example.

And that was nice. I was always under this impression that if I didn't have some MBA or something that I was just going to be struggling with this stuff the whole time. and so it was good just to see that there was ways to do it. The other thing, and I didn't mention it, and it's kind of a side note, one of the things I really liked about your guys' program is the whole concept of servant leadership because that really just resonates with me on a personal and religious level.

And so, you know, I always see all this kind of like business development and sales development stuff is kind of slimy. And this is the first time I felt something that made me feel comfortable that it was coming from a point of helping people and service. And so that helped me with trusting you guys to buy into your methodology and your system. So yeah, so it was great for me. A big part of it was just I need to be at that point in time the emotional encouragement because I was just pretty worn out and pretty drained and it was great. The best part of it was for me getting hooked in with the podcast and going to Summit and starting to implement some of these things, it lifted the emotional burden. Because for me, I was just trying to figure out how do I do this stuff that I'm not good at?

Or how do I, I'm an engineer, how do I do this business stuff? You know, I can't do this. So, you know, when that light switch flipped, it was this change because I realized that even though I wasn't there, it was somewhere I could get to. and that I'm not going to be perfect, it's going to take some time, but that there was program in place, steps I could follow, and it would be a step by step by step, and I would get better. And that was something that was very, very encouraging to me, something that I needed to know that, hey, there's a light at the end of this tunnel.

All you have to do is start moving to it. You're not going to get to it lying here on the floor, but if you get up and you start making the changes and you start doing the work, you're going to get there. Now just go do it. And to all you guys listening, when you lose close to a million dollars in contracts, you know, one day, it hurts. You feel like, I mean, things just ended.

You feel like it was dark. I lost trust on my team. I was wondering why I even wanted to continue representing this factory I was working with. I was in this angry, dark place. and it is I don't even know how to explain it. It's lonely, it's demoralizing, and I know you guys have been there

because this is a struggle, this is business. Some of us are good at what we build and not so good at the business part of it, which is where I am, and finding this option, finding these steps to move forward. It kind of what keeps you float. You know, it's kind of like the raft on the ocean.

You're waiting to get to shore, but at least it's keeping you up, keeping you from sinking. And it's just a, I don't know, it's, it gives you the tools to realize that you can give your team what your team needs. You can be the leader. You can have a positive influence. You can give the training. You can be the emotional sport.

You can pull the team along with you. If you make a mistake, it's not going to end the team. But even though in that instant You may have been the problem You know for the rest of the time You can help be the solution And you can help fix problems that haven't happened When problems come up you can be the solution in the future

And you can make sure You are the reason that your company has a bright future So that's where I am I'm very excited I don't always have the best words to put it into But I know that because I am going to put in the work And that I'm going to keep going that I'm going to be a solution and a benefit for this company as long as I'm with it.

Great stuff from me, Andrew. Andrew, thank you so much for sharing your story, and I hope you are encouraged by that. And by the way, this is what we're talking about. This is the community. Andrew represents all of you that listen in. It would be so, I tell this to Will and Eric, the producer all the time. It would be so great if we just had a big field somewhere in America, and we all descended on the field for a day and just hung out. like-minded men and women who are going after it on purpose.

Well, you heard Andrew mention the summit, our entree leadership event that I believe is quickly becoming the event to be at. I've never experienced mass community like I experienced in Orlando this year. The event next year, San Antonio, Texas, rich in history. One of my favorite places to go. May 20 through 23, 2018. And I can't even believe this is the lineup. You ready? Here we go.

Former Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. CEO of Southwest Airlines and former guests on this podcast, Gary Kelly. CEO of Chick-fil-A, Dan Kathy. Former CEO of the Ford Motor Company. And arguably the greatest turnaround CEO we've seen in the modern era, Alan Malawi. World-renowned economist for Ronald Reagan. You ever heard the phrase trickle-down economics? That was a phrase of derision used by the Democrats.

It's not a political statement. These are all historical facts. So don't get your feathers ruffled. He worked for Ronald Reagan. We're going to have him. It's going to be really interesting stuff there. And then bestselling author, Seth Godin, Donald Miller, of course, Dave Ramsey, Christy Wright, and Chris Hogan.

I'll be there hosting that event as well. A lot of fun. We'd love for you to be there. Now, let me just tell you the fact. We had 1,500 men and women at the event in Orlando. By the time I got on the plane to come back to the Music City, we had sold 1,200 tickets from that group of people. So if you're thinking about coming to an event,

what would be the fact that would be the tipping point for you? Would it be that the almost the entire audience that was at the last event said, hey, I'm coming back? That would be for me. So, what does that also mean? Not only is a great event and people want to come back, they've already bought most of the tickets, you better hurry.

Daniel Tartney, the team are scrambling. What are we going to do? We may need like 500 more seats. Folks, this is a hype. This is a fact. I met several of you at this last event who came to the event because of this podcast. So if you were thinking about it, and you didn't do it and you want to come, you better move on this.

Summit 18 is the phrase. Summit 18, you text that to 33444. Summit 18 text it to 33444-4 and we're going to give you a podcast discount. Thank me in San Antonio. And then if you don't want to text in, you can go to the link in the show notes. And one little thing here, I'm going to put this out here and I'm just going to do it because I can't. We're going to have a podcast meetup at the Minger Bar right across the street from the Alamo. Now, this bar is where Teddy Roosevelt recruited the Rough Riders.

If you don't know who the Ruff Riders are, please do some history homework. Please. Before he became president, he was a military hero and leader, Teddy Roosevelt. He's on Mount Rushmore. He's one of the greats. And this bar, I've been there many times. It is like you step back into the 1800. It's unbelievable.

It's phenomenal. And we will sit and we will hang and we will discuss and we will revel in the place where Teddy Roosevelt interviewed people. Can you imagine the job interview for the Rough Riders? What are the questions that Teddy Roosevelt? Roosevelt, ask a guy to become a rough rider. Let me tell you something. And it's right across the street.

When I say across the street, I'm telling you, you can walk out of the front door of Minger Bar and throw a rock and hit the wall of the Alamo. So there it is. We'll figure out a way. We'll Uber, we'll get a bus. We're all going to go hang out. And this is going to happen. So if you're listening to sound of my voice and you've already bought a ticket, you need to email us.

Podcast at ontrielderyliarship.com and say, I'm in. for hanging at the minger bar and then we'll figure out how many people we can have eric we're going to have to get christin cummings on this our amazing producer but this is happening so there you go yeah maybe we'll get a party bus and uh we'll we'll drive from the resort over to the minger bar and hang out and great times will be had so there you go just threw that out there's a little bonus you become. We're going to do some type of fun podcast hangout at the Minger Bar. It's absolutely

unbelievable, coolest place in San Antonio. And by the way, if you enjoy a cigar or a pipe, well, bring that too. We'll figure it out. All right, folks, hard to believe that's going to do it for this episode of the podcast. On behalf of Eric the producer, engineer Will Rutter,

and the entire Entree leadership team. Thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.