EntreLeadership - #217: Dr. Robert Cialdini — Why People Say Yes

Episode Date: August 14, 2017

Psychologist and best-selling author Dr. Robert Cialdini has spent over 30 years studying the science of influence—and everyone from Google and Microsoft to the United States Department of Justice has sought his expert advice. In this episode, Dr. Cialdini reveals the key to getting what you want lies in the sweet spot before the request is even made. Join us as he shares the method behind the scientifically based magic. entreleadership.com/podcast EntreLeadership E1D Livestream Infusionsoft Free Email Templates Summit 2018 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Broadcasting from the Music City, this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thanks so much for joining the conversation. Our feature conversation this episode is with Dr. Robert Chaldini. Now, this guy is legendary. He wrote a book entitled Influence.

It's always loved when somebody writes a book, and the title is one of the biggest words in the English language. And we're going to go ahead and write a book about that. I dig it. It's really great. It's been 30 years since it came out, wildly popular. Now it comes out with his second book in 30-some years. Presuasion. Oh, I can't wait to get into that.

I'm going to give you some thoughts on that. What did I take away from the conversation? I think you need to be thinking about. And, of course, we're going to answer your questions as we love to do on Ask the Coach and some things. you need to know. But first, Coach John Falcons. All right, folks, thrilled to have Coach John Falcons in with me to answer some of your questions. Now, we get some great questions, and we love it. We try to pick some that we believe. Hit so many of you because we know that many of you are walking in very similar scenarios.

So if you want to submit a question, it's very easy to do. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at ontraeleadership.com. Coach, you ready to go? Let's do this. always ready. He put his whistle down. That means he's serious. Here we go. The first question is from Deanna. She asks, can you give any advice on how to start small with the development stage of an idea before you pour your heart and soul into it just to remove it from your business plan months later? Should I build those types of things into the business plan and budget? Well, Ken, you know, we both have heard Dave say many, many times that we are survivors of 90% of his ideas and we're living off of 10% of his ideas. So yes, but we shouldn't bet the farm on every new idea we should

get, right? That just comes along. Because as entrepreneurs, we've got that shiny new thing syndrome. You know, we had 12 ideas on the way to work today. And so should you have a little margin in there to try some new things? Yes, but don't just dive in head first. and then walk and then run to test the idea out. If you just put everything on each new idea, not only are you going to be going all over the place, you're going to give your team whiplash and everybody's going to get tired out from that. Yeah, I love it. But hey, pour your heart and soul into it. Just move at a very smart pace. Yeah, I mean, I can't imagine trying something if I didn't have a deep-seated belief that it was actually going to work. I'm just wrong frequently. Yeah, I love that.

All right. Thank you for the question. Deanna. Next up is Rich, and he writes in, what are you looking for in an ideal candidate to take over your position? I love this question, John. It looks like Rich is thinking, okay, as a leader, I've got to always be thinking about replacing myself. So very specific here. What is that ideal candidate to take over your position? There's two things, Ken. They've got to have character and they've got to have competence. You've got to be able to trust this person implicitly, not be looking over your shoulder. you've got to know on issues of integrity, you know, truthfulness, all those kind of things that you just have unfailing trust that this person is going to do what's right. Are they going to

make mistakes? Yes, but that's not what I'm talking about. You've got to trust that their heart is in the right place. That's character. Number two, competence. They've got to be able to do the job. Are they going to be perfect? Are they going to be able to do it exactly like you? No, they're going to have a different style and they're still coming along. So maybe they do it at 80% of what you could do it at maybe 85% but you know what we tend to do Ken in this regard is we tend to compare our best day that we ever did something with their worst day and we said well they just can't do it we shouldn't do that we should be optimistic we should invest in them we should pour into them and help them get up to that level of where we have a good comfort level and we can hand things over them so two things

character and competence yeah and you know I want to say something here and I want you to speak to this because you and I've seen this a lot where leaders They want to do a good job of replacing themselves. But there's this thing called ego. And I think leaders have to be reminded from time to time. And Rich, this is my challenge here on the end of this answer, is you've got to make sure that you do a great job of replacing yourself and not worry if they do a better job in that role than you. Because at the end of the day, you'll get more praise if you put a person in and you trust them, you empower them, and they actually do a better job. That is actually the true mark of a healthy, really smart leader.

Absolutely. Not somebody who, you know, you put somebody in there and you're constantly, that's a hard thing. It's an ego thing. But if it's done right, everybody goes, hey, look at Rich. This guy's healthy. He's not insecure. He puts somebody in there and they're doing better than he did. Yep.

That's huge. It is huge. We don't see that a lot in the pass-off. So there you go, folks. He is coach John Falcons, and you can send your question in at any time. It's absolutely free. So are the answers, by the way. So there you go.

Podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Coach, thanks for being with us. Thanks for having me. All right, I told you about Dr. Robert Chaldini's new book, Presuasion, a revolutionary way to influence and persuade. Now, when this came across my desk, this got me very excited. And admittedly, I am easily excitable.

But the reason that I got excited is because I love words. I'm a word nerd, and I think words have so much power. And so this concept behind the book, of course, is not a little nichey idea. This is one of the most respected psychologist authors in America. If you look at the success of his first book, Influence. So I dug into this and I thought, oh, man, this is really great. A revolutionary way to influence and persuade. And I'm going to tell you something.

You can just sit down right now and write out five of your top roles in life. The roles that you play, whether it be professional or personal, and write those roles and then start to think, how often do I need to persuade? How often and how important is it to be influential? So this is like, I think, basic learning. You have to understand stuff like this. So I was very excited about it. Crack the book open, then did the conversation.

And I got some things I want to give you that I took away from this conversation. I think we'll challenge you and will help you. But first, here is the conversation with Dr. Robert Chaldean. Well, Bob, this is exciting, and it is an honor to talk with someone of your stature and someone who has put out such influential work. And I want to start there before we dive too much into the content of this new book, Presuasion. I love the title. Presuasion. And this is beautiful because you just talked about this idea had to be certainly as big as influence,

and this ties beautifully into that work. but when did this idea really begin to take root in your mind and then it developed into this amazing book? And the title, Presuasion, of course, is the singular concept. Well, as opposed to influence, which covers what best to build into a message to get agreement, the book Presuasion describes the process of gaining agreement with a message before it's been sent. And although that might seem like some form of magic, it's not. It's established science, but let me give you an example, actually the prime example of what got me to turn my head around and think about the moment before a message is delivered as a piece

of persuasive real estate that's gone almost entirely untended by communicators. And as a consequence, we never think about what goes first. One day, I got a knock on my door. And I answered it to find a man who was asking me to contribute to a... a cause. It was after-school programs for children in my school district. And I wound up giving him more money than I normally give to people who come to my door with requests for the United Way or the Cancer Society or something like that. Even though he gave me no credentials to indicate that he was actually with this cause. I hadn't heard of anything like this in my neighborhood to think

that my school district was doing this. And yet, I gave him more money than I normally give to a legitimate charity organization. And I remember closing the door and leaning against the wall and saying to myself, what just happened there? All the things that I have argued in my book influence about how you get people to say yes, he didn't do any of those things. He didn't give me evidence that he was an authority on this topic, that he had credentials. He didn't tell me that all my neighbors were doing this. He didn't say we have a limited opportunity. If we don't move now, we'll lose it. He didn't say any of the things that I recommend. And yet he was massively effective. And then I realized it wasn't what he said. It's what he did before he opened his mouth

that got me to give him that money. It was that he brought his seven-year-old daughter with him, and he focused me on children and children's needs and children's vulnerabilities. That little girl was hiding behind his leg while he was talking. to me and the whole idea of helping children became much more prominent in my mind because of what he did before he said a word. That told me, oh, Chaldini, there's a book here. That is really interesting. So, of course, you just so beautifully took us through. You're leaning on the wall. I can see you, leaning on the wall in your living room. And you're probably processing this. So then you say, this is a book. So then, of course, you're a psychologist. You go do the

research. Take us a little bit deeper into that because it is very possible that that man did not do that on purpose. But the effect was still the same. And I'm going to tee you up on this because this is on the inside front cover of the book. And it's really beautiful. You write, to change minds, Savvy priest-waiters first change states of mind. Is that what happened on your porch? Your state of mind changed? That is precisely right. I became someone who was a child cause advocate because of what I was focused on first.

He got me to focus on children. Now, I don't know if it was in. You might be exactly right. It was an accident. Maybe daycare fell through for him that particular afternoon. Whatever it was. It worked. Man, did it work. So I began to think, okay, what's going on here? And I realized that there's a key moment that allows a communicator to create a state of mind in recipients that's consistent with the upcoming message that they're about to deliver. It's the moment in which the communicator can arrange for us to be attuned to his or her message before we ever encounter it. That crucial step is critical to maximizing desired change. Let me give you an example, because you're exactly right.

I then went into the research literature to find out if there was evidence for this. Here's an example. In one study, researchers approached individuals on the street and asked them for help with a marketing survey, but they couldn't give them any payment for it. Well, only 29% of the people agreed to participate under those circumstances, right? But if the researchers approached a second sample of individuals on the same street and preceded their request for help with a simple persuasive question, excuse me, do you consider yourself a helpful person? Now 77.3% volunteered. Why? Because when asked before the request if they were helpful, nearly everyone said yes.

Then, when the request occurred, most people agreed to participate in order to be consistent with the recently activated idea of themselves as helpful people. The mindset had changed. and that's what spurred this enormous difference. 29% versus 77% that's massive. That is so brilliant, folks, right there. I mean, that is just absolutely brilliant. I love that. All right, so we can't cover this whole book, Bob,

because I want people to go buy it and literally just immerse themselves in it. But I want to walk through some selected chapters, folks, because this is research, this is real. We've kind of touched on this, but I want you, chapter two is about privileged moments. Folks, I'll tell you this. He breaks the book into three parts. Part one, pre-suation, what we're talking about here, this front-loading of attention. Attention is so important. We'll get to that in just a second. But privilege moments, and you write in the book, page 14, these are identifiable points in time when an individual is particularly receptive to a communicator's message. You just gave us an example of, how they tweak that question and now those people were receptive to helping because they just said, I'm helpful. They don't want to lie to people. Or they've said, well, I've got to be who I just

said I was. Exactly. Take us a little bit further into that for leaders, people who are leading people and to make sure they understand how to identify or create privileged moments. Here's a perfect example. Suppose you want people to feel a sense. of unity or connectedness within your organization so that they can move in a coordinated way toward a new initiative and get people feeling connected as a consequence. Here's one thing we could do. When you have the meeting where you bring up the new initiative, don't allow people to sit with their colleagues.

in the same unit. Don't allow the marketers to sit together and the salespeople to sit together and the production people to sit together, the other units within your organization, procurement. No, have them sit among one another. Now you begin with the mindset

of integration and unity rather than individual silos of difference between, the groups. This just happened to me a while ago we had a business meeting with a business partner. It was a difficult negotiation. We'd had these negotiations in the past with this client. And typically these happened at their offices. We would come into the room. We would array ourselves on one side of the bargaining table. They would come in array themselves on the other side. Ken, that's the geography of opposition. We created a no-man's land between us. That table

separated us. So we happened to get there a little early, and the other team wasn't there yet. So I asked my people to take every other chair around the table. And when the client's team came in, they looked, they stopped at the door. They said, what are you doing? But they didn't kick us out. They came and sat among us. It was the best negotiation we had ever had. That's great. We started out with a mindset of unity, not separateness.

It changed everything. Now, folks, I'm going to tell you this. Chapter 3 in my mind could be a standalone book. And Bob, I'm just going to read it the name of the chapter and let you teach on it for a moment because it's so good. The importance of attention is importance. Go, Bob, that is so brilliant. I love it. I just can't wait for you to teach on this.

Here's what happens when we pay attention to something in our environment. We automatically give it credit for being important. Otherwise, why would we be paying attention to it, right? If we go into a room, we look for the thing that's most important and we pay attention to it. Well, if as a communicator we can draw people's attention to something, they will assume that what they are focusing on warrants their attention, justifies their attention. It becomes more important in their eyes, right?

And they will then behave in a way that's congruent with its new found importance in their eyes. Here's an example. A furniture store that operated online. did a little experiment. They sent half of their visitors to a landing page that had in its background wallpaper fluffy clouds, the other half of their visitors,

they sent to a wallpaper landing state that had pennies, small coins in the background. And then they looked to see what happened to the purchasing behavior of the two kinds of visitors. Those who saw clouds, first and had their attention focused on softness. They rated comfort as more important to them in making a decision about furniture. They then searched the site for comfort-related features of the furniture they were searching,

and they wound up preferring to purchase more comfortable sofas. those who were directed to a background wallpaper of pennies rated price as more important to them in making a purchase. They searched the site for cost-related features and they wound up purchasing more inexpensive sofas. Wherever they were focused first directed them to believe that that was important to them. comfort, cost, and then they behaved in ways that were congruent with that.

Now here's the scary part of it. Not one of them realized that the pennies or the clouds had made any difference in their choice. It flew completely under their radar. That's what makes persuasion something we have to be scrupulously ethical about in employees. because we're going to be able to move people around the chessboard. They won't even know that we've done it. You know, I think we have to stay here for a moment. That point you make is so important for leaders, achievers who are listening in by the tens and tens of thousands here.

And the reality is that we have a responsibility with the messages we send. Let's look at an example of how this is used in a negative way. I know that you cite wartime propaganda as an example of how this can be used in a bad way. A perfect example would be the way that the enemy is dehumanized, which allows all kinds of things to be justified in the minds of those individuals. And we wind up with atrocities. Those are the kinds of things that we have to be very careful that we don't allow into our system. because it just leads to very negative consequences. All right.

Now, before we go any further, I think it's very important because this is so practical. And when we understand the power of changing people's states of mind and their attention, I mean, we can really win big here. So dovetailing off of that furniture story examples is unbelievable. I want to give you three different scenarios and have you just kind of teach and instruct. So let's talk about an example of a leader who has to stand up in front of his or her organization, and they need to cast clear vision. And it's a different vision. And so they've got to do that.

How do they use persuasion, this idea of attention and getting that state of mind where it needs to be for the collective organization to hear a clear vision? Yes. Well, I mean, first of all, we want them paying attention. course, right? And here's what research shows. If you want people to be paying attention to your message, begin with a mystery story and promise them that if they listen, they will be able to resolve the mystery. How could this possibly have happened? What happens when people are given a puzzle is they start paying attention. attention to the details of what you say next, until they get to the resolution of the mystery, until they get it resolved.

Well, if you've got a difficult, complex point that you have to make, to get people really to buy in, they have to listen deeply and understand completely. This is what you do. You begin with a mystery. You can say something like, look, we just got our evaluation. back, our satisfaction and consumer reports back on how we're doing in our market. There was only one thing that stood out. It wasn't the speed of delivery.

It wasn't the quality of our products. That wasn't the issue. It wasn't the price. They're going to be listening now until you tell them, and they will be focused on the next thing you say, and if you say it was customer service, man, are they going to think that's important? And if your message is we have to improve customer service at every level,

you've now got them focused on customer service as the important thing because they were drilling down, they were listening to everything you said. And when you gave them the solution to the mystery, it is not just an answer, it's an explanation. And there is an enormous difference between an answer and an explanation in how people carry that information forward and use it in developing their own strategies now to how to make that information active and useful. Really good. All right. Another scenario that hits a lot of our audience.

You're a salesperson, Bob, and you are selling a product or a service. How do you get that client? It's an important pitch and you're in the pitch. How do you use this persuasion technique to really get their attention so that you can show them you have a solution? First of all, you've got to drop the wall of uncertainty that exists between you and that person, that customer, that prospect. who isn't sure yet whether they want to go with you. Because if you're dealing with somebody, especially for the first time,

they're not sure that you're sending credible information, right? That's right. So here's what the most savvy communicators have learned to do. And it goes against everything we have been taught as influence agents, which is we begin with all of the strength. of our product or service, the most compelling argument in favor of our case, the feature of what we have to offer that is most positively regarded by our market. We begin with that. And then, when we've got everybody leaning in our direction, because we're going to be honest, we might say,

but of course, this is going to cost more or this might take a little longer to show its effects. That's a mistake. To reserve the weaknesses or the drawbacks of what you have to offer for the end. Because if you begin with all of the strengths, they're going to bounce off the wall of uncertainty or doubt that people have about whether you're a trustworthy communicator. your strengths are not going to get processed fully yet until people have determined that you're a trustworthy source of information and the way to do that is not the first thing you say but early in your messaging you mention a drawback to what you are offering and suddenly you have become a trustworthy source of everything you say next.

And now when you present your strongest arguments, the wall is down. People are going to listen more deeply. They're going to believe you more fully in the positive aspects of what you have to say. Let me give you some examples from the advertising world. I'm old enough to remember. An ad that the Avis car rental company ran 25 or 30 years ago when they were a distant, distant second to their principal competitor, Hertz. And the ad had the same slogan at the beginning, at the beginning, before they said anything else. First, they said, we're number two.

And then they said, but we try harder. That campaign increased Avis's market share by 700% in one year. Wow. Here's another one. If there are ladies listening, you know about a particular advertising campaign from L'Oreal Cosmetics that begins with a drawback. L'Oreal, we're expensive, and then they say,

but you're worth it. That produced a 300% increase in market share in the space of a year. I want to stop. I want to interrupt you real quick, because I'm learning. So that particular ad from L'Oreal, it changed the state of,

mind of women instantly by saying that, correct? Because they said, the state of mind isn't, now I can't buy L'Oreal because it's expensive. The state of mind is, I'm worth it, so I can spend a little bit more here. It did. And even more prior to that, it changed the state of mind about who they were dealing with. Oh, we're dealing with honest people. Right, of course. Right, right, right. Yes. Authentically saying, hey, listen, we're expensive. We know that. What are we going to say next? What are these people going to say next? I can believe these people. Here's the greatest exemplar of using this, Warren Buffett. Warren Buffett, easily the most successful financial investor of our time, does it every year in the annual reports that he sends to his stockholders.

I've been, about 15 years ago, somebody sent me a single share of Berkshire Hathaway stock, Warren Buffett's company. They said something I had said in one of my books made them so much money that they were going to send me a single. Ken, at that time, a single share of Berkshire Hathaway stock was worth $75,000. Now, not only did I get the benefit of that financial windfall, I got the benefit of now getting Berkshire Hathaway stock. Windfall, I got the benefit of now getting Berkshire Hathaway annual reports every year. And here's what I've noticed that Warren Buffett does. On the first or second page of every report, he tells us about something that went wrong last year, a mistake he made, an error in judgment.

And he says, but I've learned from that. That will never happen again. It is so disarming. I've been getting these reports for 15 years, and I say to myself every time, wow, this guy is being straight with us. What is he going to say next? I'm listening differently now, right?

And that's when he talks about all the things that went right. As a consequence, the people who've owned Berkshire Hathaway stuff, have continued to buy their stock. They don't sell. Do you know what a single share of Berkshire Hathaway stock is going for this morning on the New York Stock Exchange? It's a quarter of a million dollars a share. $250,000. Holy cow.

Because you believe this guy. All right. Now, let's be sure that I say to the leaders in your audience. And in fact, even to the influence agents, the people who are in sales or marketing or advertising. let's be clear to what I am saying here. I am not saying you walk up to someone. Maybe you go to that person's office, you sit down and say before we begin, let me tell you all the things that are wrong with me, my organization, my products, and my services.

No, I am not saying that. Here's what I'm saying. There is a moment of persuasive power that you are afforded immediately after you mention a weakness or a drawback in your case. Do you want to know where to put your strongest argument? It's in that moment, the moment after you have mentioned a drawback and then bridged to your strongest argument by saying what Warren Buffett or Avis or L'Reill say. But, or however, or notwithstanding, you bridge to your strength.

and you let the strength eviscerate the weakness. Just blow it away because you're worth it, because we try harder, because we learn that we will never do that again. And now you're a credible source of information. And here's what research around the world shows.

The single most powerful communicator behavioral science has ever uncovered is the credible source, the person who has both knowledge and trustworthiness. When you mention a drawback, you convey that you are knowledgeable. You don't just know the pluses. You know the pluses and the minuses. And you also convey that you're trustworthy because you're willing to talk not just about the pluses. You're willing to talk about the minuses.

But if you do it in the right sequence, it's extraordinary. explosively powerful. All right. Last scenario on this particular specific question. This is so good. We have a lot of parents, Bob, that are listening in. I've got three kids, 11, 9, and 8. And I'm reading this book going, boy, this is huge for me as a communicator as a parent. How do we use persuasion when we're dealing with our children? Maybe it's a discipline issue or not so much a discipline as much as it's disciplined through the form of teaching and making sure they understand, hey, this is why we do what we do, why we say what we say, why this boundary exists. I will answer that question in a kind of roundabout way because I need to tell you about a study that was done that reflects on this question that you just asked. It was a study that was done in Belgium. Researchers brought subjects into an experimental room where they showed them photographs of pieces of household objects of toasters and blenders. and chairs and tables and so on.

And in the background, for a third of the subjects, there was a figure standing alone. That was for a third of the subject. For another set of subjects, they saw those same photographs, except in the background, were two individuals standing apart from one another, separated.

The third sample of subjects saw the same photographs, and two individuals standing shoulder to shoulder in a partnership pose. Then the researcher got up from the table and pretended to drop a set of items onto the floor. And the question was, who becomes her partner, who becomes her assistant, gets down off their chair and helps her pick up the thing she dropped? By now, you probably have guessed. those people who saw pictures of partnership then became partners, whereas 20% of the other two, where they saw a single individual or saw two individuals standing alone,

20% of those got off their chair and helped. 60% of those who saw the partners did. Okay, that's probably something you've already guessed. Here's what you probably didn't know, and that when I read it, made me rock back in my chair. It knocked me back. I actually rolled back from my computer screen when I saw this.

The subjects in this experiment were 18-month-old babies. Wow. This idea of giving people something to focus on first, like partnership, that then directs their behavior afterwards, right? Or unity, something like that. works for 18-month-old children. This is hardwired into us. So this would work for kids.

Now, here's what I'm going to say, because you can't show them a set of pictures. Right. I can't sit my three kids down and say, now, kids, I want you to stare at this picture for five minutes and mom and I'll be back in. Here's what you say. You want to communicate unity.

Begin by saying, you know, we're a family. And then make your case. put unity, put togetherness at the top of consciousness. Now it's a different way to behave. This happened to me a while ago where I needed something from a colleague. He was a difficult guy, but I needed some data that he had for a report that I needed to do the next day. I had he needed to complete it, and I sent him an email saying, Tim, that's not his real name,

Tim, I'm going to call you and see if you can get these data out of your archives and help me with this. I need them for the next day. Well, I called him up. He said, Bob, I know why you're calling. And the answer is no. Look, we're both busy people. I can't be responsible for your poor time management skills.

The answer is no. So I had been reading about this unity research, and here's what I said to him. instead of saying, Tim, I really need this. I said, Tim, you know, we've been in the same psychology department now for 12 years.

I really need this. I had the information that afternoon. We went from no to yes because I raised to consciousness in him that we were a unit. We were members of the same psychology department. Well, think of how much more powerful it is to say we're a family to precede what you next

ask your kids to do. Folks, we barely got into this book. It is Presuasion, a revolutionary way to influence and persuade. He is, Bob, your treasure to all of us who want to make the most out of our lives, because communication is so important on so many different levels. understanding the psychology behind how we react, how we act, how we change, how we communicate. It's so, so important. And you get so much out of this book.

It's really, really great. I want to give you the chance for the last word. We've got leaders, high achievers that are listening in here. They want to make the most out of their life and their role. How would you encourage them? I would encourage them to think about the moment before they make their case. not just about how to best make their case. If we use the moment before we make our case as a launching pad for it,

then our content, our case, our products, our services are going to be elevated in priority, in importance, in the minds of the people who then encounter our case. Folks, you can do that right away. opportunity you have think about it Bob Chaldini this is great stuff thanks for being with us we're much better for it Ken I enjoyed it appreciate your you're really very insightful questions well I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did this book is on my desk I'm already tearing it to pieces going back through it highlighting it dog ears everywhere if you want to connect more on this work influence at work.com

influence at work.com that is where Dr. Robert Chaldini's epicenter is this guy is a gift to all leaders you need to take advantage of this. There was so much that I took away from this content. But one thing jumped out at me like a neon sign. And it is the premise of really this whole book. And Chaldini basically says this in the book. He says to change minds, savvy pre-suaders first change states of mind. And so when I first read that, I thought, you know when you read something like that and you go, oh, boy, that's really good. And then you begin to soak on it, which I hope you do. This is my process. So many of you, when I meet you at live events, you'll say, hey, what's your process of interviewing and how do you choose what you're

going to ask? This kind of stuff. And so as I'm kind of teaching you what I learned and challenging with it, I also want you to be thinking about, well, how does Ken do this and how can I do this? When I read a line and it jumps off the page at you and you go, I know there's some gravitas there. And I know it's really good. And now I need to soak on it. So this is what I do. I go back and I I read it again and I start to think about it and I go, now, how does this statement come true in my life? That's the first question I ask. And I think this is brilliant. And I will tell you that some people instinctively get this.

Others don't. So for those of you who instinctively get this, this is just a nice refresher to maybe be more intentional. To those of you who don't get this, this is important to be really intentional to say, okay, what does this mean? This phrase. To change minds, savvy priest waiters first change. states of mind. So I started looking at that. Okay, so if I want to change somebody's mind, I have to then change their state of mind first. So what's the difference between changing their mind, right? Changing the way they think and changing their state of mind. So I dug deeper in

the book and I was paying attention to the conversation. In part two of the book, to further set this up, Chaldingy talks about processes and he starts out in chapter seven on the role of association. The title of chapter seven is the primacy of association. And this is what I love. He says, I link, therefore I think. And obviously, turn a phrase there is fantastic. But what is he saying? What he's saying is that our thinking is ultimately further shaped.

You could have a million thoughts run through your mind. But when a thought pops in your mind, there's also an equal action that takes place. Here comes a thought, bing. And then instantly you go, is there an association with that thought? Do I know somebody? Have I experienced this? Have I tasted this? Have I seen this? Do I believe this? Is there cynicism here? Again, a million scenarios. But what is so powerful about this? This idea that we have to change people's states of minds before we can change the way they think, I'm going to break it down for how I use this. So back to my first challenge. So when I was listening to this and reading about

this and then I began to soak on this and I said, okay, I agree with that, but what does that mean to me? Here's what it means to me. You have to change the way people feel in order to change the way they think. Now let's just stop. That's what I believe Chaldeenia is saying. The state of mind. Well, I can have a thought in my head and you've had thoughts into your head and then they leave just as quickly as they enter. Sometimes you get a thought in your mind and you go, ooh, Okay, what do I do with this? That's when you begin this association game, right? Chapter 7, I link, therefore I think.

What do I associate with this thought? So to me, the association, the linking to me really leads to feeling. So when I can change the way someone feels, I've changed their state of mind. Are you tracking with me? when I change the way somebody feels, their state of mind changes because the emotion that we have created in them is the state of mind. They can have a thought when they walk into a room and they could think, I don't know why I'm here. I don't really matter. This is a waste of my time.

And when I'm on stage and I've got a message to share with that person, I have to take. I have to change the way they feel. So what am I looking to do there? I want them to start to feel I matter. Maybe I am here on purpose. Maybe I'm here for a reason. And when that changes, what you have is this nice little conflict that has to happen, for change to happen, for a decision to be made.

What's the conflict? My thought when I walked in here and thus my feeling was, was I didn't matter. I just shouldn't be here. Why am I here? This is all pointless. Right? That's a feeling and then it leads to a thought. I'm going to check out. Now we change the way they feel. I matter. I'm supposed to be here. There's a reason I'm here. This is not a waste of my time. Feeling changes. And now it attacks that thought. And the thought that said, I'm going to check out. I'm not going to engage. Says, I'm going to give this a chance. I'm going to engage.

Change the way somebody feels. You change the way they think. And here is the payoff. When you change the way they think, back to my homespun example, when I change that thought, I've changed the way they act. Thoughts lead to decisions. You want a decision to be made in your favor. You better start with this.

this book is brilliant. It's a must read. You need to understand this. This is what I took away. Yes, I want to be a presuader. I want to be a persuader. I want to be an influencer. But in order to do that,

I have to keep at the forefront of my mind that I've got to change the way people feel first. You cannot as a leader, as a communicator, as a husband, as a father, as a son, daughter, friend. mentor. You cannot come at people with just facts. If you miss feeling, you're never going to be the influencer and you're never going to see the change that you want to come about. Don't forget feelings. They're huge. Facts without feelings? Gigantic waste of time. All right, folks, a couple things you need to know

and a couple things I want you to know. We're really excited about this in just barely over two months. We are streaming our Entree Leadership One Day event, the date, October 27, 2017. Our Entree Leadership One Day event is really popular. We take this all around the country every season. And this is our playbook. We're going to give it to you in less than a normal business day. So many of you are doing 830 to 530 or 9 to 5, whatever you're doing.

If you're a banker, you're like 830 to 4. We will get the event done. in that same amount of time it really is practical. How did Dave do all of this at Ramsey Solutions? How did he lead it? How did he recruit the people that have helped him get it where it is all from a card table? It's our playbook.

It's what works. It is what hasn't worked. We're going to let you know all of the good stuff and the bad stuff because we learn from the bad stuff. That's where most of the time the good stuff comes from. So here's the cool thing about the event. event. You can stream it for only $29. That's not $29 per person. I want to make sure you get this. That's not $29 per person.

If you have 75 people in your company, clear out the cafeteria. Hey, it's October. Put a big giant screen in the parking lot. Invite all your neighbors. It's $29. It's a great deal. Dave Ramsey, Chris Hogan, Chrissy Wright, and myself on the stage live here in Nashville. but we're going to put it out to you and you can watch it anywhere. Why wouldn't you do this? I don't know, unless you're on a company retreat and you're listening to my voice right now. Why wouldn't you do this? It's $29.

That's like six packs of pencils. I don't know if that's true. Guys are laughing at me behind the glass because I use pencils. I use pencils. I use number two pencils. I have an electric pencil sharpener right beside my. desk. Will the engineer is laughing at me. He is throwing his head back and having a good old laugh. Can I just tell you something? I love a pencil. And I also love the entree leadership. One day I can't wait.

So here we go. Sometimes folks, I really am the dog from up. Squirrel. So here's the deal. If you want to get registered, click the link in this episode, show notes, or go to ontreleadership.com E1D Live. That's entreeleadership.com slash E1D Live or just Just go to Entreeleadership.com, go to this episode under our podcast tab, and Eric the producer's got it there for you, and an easy-to-click link. Love to see you as a part of that awesome day. And InfusionSoft's got a great tool for you, and as always, it's free. It's a free email template, 10 emails you need to close a sale.

I love this stuff that they give us. I remember when Eric the producer and I went to Arizona, and we met with a team, and we were talking about this, and they had so many great tools that we were using here at Ramsey Solutions and Entree leadership. And we said, well, we want to do this, but I'll be honest with you. Eric was a little more excited than me. I was a little bit, I was like, I don't want to just be pitching just stuff on this podcast. I'm a bit of a snob for you, the people.

I am a man of the people. And I said, here's the deal. If we do this, it's got to be something that I can have some conviction about in telling you people. So, there you go. I tell you about there are tools all the time. That's an aster because I want you to know, that I believe this stuff is so helpful.

Free email templates. Listen, for the small businessman or woman out there, this is unbelievably practical. Think about how much time it would take you to sit down and knock out 10 email templates. You're going to agonize over, you're going to edit it 57 times. Guess what?

They've done it for you. And it is free. And here's the best part. I've looked at this stuff. They don't feel or sound spammy. By the way, that's a word I haven't said on a microphone. I don't know ever, but I like it. Nobody wants to be spammy.

And by the way, that's the key to that. You've got to put the little extra emphasis on the sp. Spammy. If I just said spammy, spammy, that's what you don't want to be. You don't want to be spammy. So, download it in our show notes. We've got it there for you, Entreleadership.com. Click on podcast and the link for InfusionSoft's amazing tools.

By the way, for every episode, it's all there for it. If you want to go back through and get all the free stuff, Why wouldn't you? It's like Halloween. There you go. Coming up next week, very excited about this. One of my history junkies and friends, Stephen Mansfield, this guy is one of the best writers in America, fantastic brain and an even bigger heart.

We're going to talk about how to see and then sidestep the signs of a leadership crash. This is heavy stuff, but it's important stuff. That's coming up next week. So, just to give you a little extra tease for next week's episode, here is a sample of my conversation with Stephen Mansfield. One of the greatest fuels of great leadership is to have a band of brothers, a band of sisters, who know who you are, who aren't afraid of you, who will speak truth to you,

who will hold up a mirror, who will hold you accountable. When you distance those people, anything's possible, and usually it's negative stuff. On behalf of Eric the producer, engineer Will Rutter, and the entire Entree Leadership team, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.