EntreLeadership - #233: Ryan Levesque—Better Questions, More Sales

Episode Date: November 20, 2017

In working with businesses across 23 different industries, Ryan Levesque—CEO of The ASK Method Company and best-selling author—has discovered what a big (think $100-million- dollars big) difference the smallest subtleties in language can make. Turns out it’s not enough to simply ask people what they want. You have to use the right words in the right way to elicit the most truthful response. And when you do? You may very well watch your sales catapult from so-so to stellar. Tune in to find out how to successfully deploy The ASK Method in your business. Also weighing in on the tremendous power of asking questions is Antonio Garrido, cofounder and president of Sandler Training in Miami. entreleadership.com/podcast Are You Losing Leads Super-Selling Cheat Sheet Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Andre Leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. All right, folks, huge focus on sales and knowing your customer today. Our two featured guests, Ryan Levec, author of Ville, the book Ask, the counterintuitive online formula to discover exactly what your customers want to buy,

create a massive raving fans, and take any business to the next level. And then Antonio Garito from Sandler Training, he's got a book entitled Asking Questions, The Sandler Way. And then we will bring you two free resources to help you with your sales. So let's get right to it. Up first is Ryan Leveck. Fascinating guy. I've heard a lot of good things about the ask method. And let me tell you something, it will really make you the customer whisperer in your world. I want you to pay attention to micro commitments and the psychology that Ryan talks about in the conversation. If you pay attention, take notes, and do what Ryan's telling you, you will ask differently of your customers after hearing this. Here is Ryan Lavec.

Well, Ryan, welcome to our Entree Leadership Studios. I was really excited about this conversation. Appreciate you being with us. Super excited to be here. All right, so the book we're going to dive into in a little bit is Ask. I love, love, love the subtitle. It might be the longest subtitle I've ever seen, but I don't think one word is wasted. The counterintuitive online method to discover exactly what your customers want to buy, create a mass of raving fans, and take any business to the next level. So I love that.

What a mission statement that is. I love back stories. So I want to go back a little bit before we go into the book and your credentials, because this backstory that I've heard about, and I want you to share, is the fuel for all of this. And I think there's something we can all take from this. So take us back before you got into neuroscience and looking at fear and how the brain works and then turning that into one of the great methods and training business people on how to sell and how to win, something really dramatic happened in your life.

I would call it a lightning bolt moment. What was that? Yeah, so I'd spent the better part of 10 years, basically having a small business. I was a small business owner, and I had a small little consulting practice, and I didn't have huge aspirations to change the world. And five years ago, my first son was born, and what should have been the happiest time in our lives ended up being one of the most tragic. So after my son was born, I started mysteriously losing weight.

And I was tired all the time. And if you've got kids, you know that, well, you get a young baby, you're thinking, oh, I'm not sleeping at night. I'm not getting good sleep. And my wife said, you know, honey, you should apply for life insurance, right? We depend on you. And so I applied for life insurance, went on a trip, came back, had a letter in the mail, opened up the letter, and the letter said, denied.

I just turned 30 years old, and I said, there must be some sort of mistake. And so my wife calls up the doctor, and we said, well, let's go and have things checked out. The reason I was denied is because my lab results were off the charts. Now, I made the biggest mistake of my life that night, which was I, I went to Google. Went to Google, and I typed him what the numbers meant. And the result said, kidney failure, renal system shut down, pancreatic cancer. Talk about a shock.

And I'm still in doubt, right? I don't believe what's happening. I said, they must have got my results crossed with someone else. We go to the doctors the next day. They draw my blood. They had me weight in the waiting room. I remember it like it was yesterday. The doctor walks out of the room and he says, grabs me by the shoulders.

Mr. Lebeck, we need to take you to the emergency room right now. You should be in a coma. So they rushed me to the ER and I spent the next 10 days in intensive care. And it turns out I'd fall into a state known as DCA or diabetic ketoacidosis and my organs were shutting down. I mean, I won't get too graphic, but I was urinating blood. Yeah. My body was shutting down. And it was in that hospital bed that I had this moment. I said, all right, if I'm going to do something with my life. Yeah. Right. Now is the time. And that's where I had the epiphany that I said, you know, the thing that I love more than anything else that I can make the biggest impact is to teach. I want to take the thing that I've done in my business and I want to get it into the hands of as many business owners as possible because that's the thing that I can do.

I can change the world. I can make the biggest impact. Yeah. And that's what inspired me to write the book. And I want to get back to that, but I want more of that story. So give us to the rest of the story. You're in 10 days of ICU. Obviously, things turned around.

What did happen? How did you get all that fixed? So I stepped into a state diabetic ketoacidosis. At 30 years old, I found out that I was an undiagnosed juvenile diabetic. Ah. So I have a living with it the whole life and then all of a sudden it just... Your body, what happens is when you're under severe stress, you don't get a lot of sleep. You're a business owner working long hours.

Put on top of that, you've got an infant that's not sleeping through the night. You're getting any sleep. My body just said, enough, shut down. Started losing all this weights. And I weigh about, you look at me here in studio, I'm about 185 pounds. I was 132 pounds. Wow. So you just began to treat the diabetes.

To begin to treat the diabetes. Came out, they rebalanced my electrolytes, rebalance my fluids, had to get on an insulin treatment. Sure. Have a CGLO, a continuous glucose monitor right here on my gut under the shirt. You and Jay Cutler, NFL quarterback, plays with a pump on his body. Yeah, it's a type of, yeah. And the thing that's so rare about this is most people, there's why they call it juvenile diabetes.

Most people find out when you're a kiddo. Yeah. It's very rare. There's only been a few thousand cases, some of my age. find out at that age and still kind of be okay. Love that. So, you know, I said earlier, I said, you know, nothing gives you clarity of purpose. That's right. Like coming to terms with your own mortality. That's it. Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. And also, when you come to grips with that mortality, whether it be through a time of peace and maybe prosperity and you're just meditating

and you kind of come to that grips, or many times it is when mortality is absolutely staring us nose to nose. But even when mortality is not the issue, but great crisis, great pain allows us to really focus in on passion. And so I want to go back where you were. Sure. So you'd been in this business and you'd been winning. Even though it was a small business, there wasn't this huge purpose or passion tied to it. It was just a good business.

And then you come out of the hospital and you get your body set up and then you go, okay, I've got to do what has been working. And that leads to what we're talking about today with this ask method in the book. But before that, this obsession and fascination with neuroscience, specifically as it relates to fear. And I love, love, love, love this topic. Because we all face fear. And some of us deny it, but we're lying to ourselves. We've got to deal with fear.

Sure. What was that early journey like? The background, you went to Brown for heaven's sake. Did this all happen post-crisis? Or had you already gone to Brown? This is before. So my story in a nutshell grew up in a blue-collar household. My dad worked nights, entire life.

My mom cut hair in the basement of her house. First person in my family would go to college. Okay. And so for me, a lot of my life was driven by fear, right? Never had enough money. Fear of making mistakes. Fear of messing up in school. And I had so much in my life that was driven by fear.

And so many of us live our lives like that. We're afraid. We're afraid so we work in a certain way. We're afraid of running out of money for our retirement. So we keep putting our nose to the ground. So I had so much fear. in my life. And so I became fascinated by the psychology and neuroscience of fear. And at Brown, I studied neuroscience. And my parents are very disappointed that I didn't want to become a

neurosurgeon or neuroscientist. But along the way, I came across the work of Dr. Robert Maurer. And he's a researcher out of UCLA, and he studies the psychology, the neuroscience of fear. And one of the things that fascinated me about fear is that as human beings, the reason why we are afraid of change, whether it's positive change or negative change, is because our body wants to keep us the same. Our brain says, no, even if that thing could be better for you, no, we're not going to do that. We're going to keep you right here. But what's so fascinating about this is there is a hack. We can actually hack our fear response. And it's a simple little trick that we can all use. If you ever find yourself in a situation where you want to do something, but you're having that

resistance, whether it's going for a run or maybe asking for a promotion or doing something in your business, whatever it may be, ask yourself, what is the step that is so small that it's literally impossible for me to fail? And this is something that we call a micro commitment. If you're ever in that situation where you want to move forward, you shrink the size of the step to be something so small, it's impossible to fail. And what's so cool about this is that you can take that big idea and you can translate it into your marketing as a business, in your sales process. Yeah. If you think about ever asking your prospects to do something, whether it's to give you their email address

and they get on your website or to buy one of your products, if they're getting stuck, the way you do is you put a little stepping stone that's a little bit closer and use that micro-commitment philosophy. So it's so cool when you start taking the science of psychology or neuroscience and you find ways to apply it into business. Yeah, that's unbelievable. So this is great because what you just laid out for us is this isn't just a fear hack for ourselves. It's a fear hack for everybody else. And I love that. Great stuff.

So that comes from the research of Maur. Yes. He came up with that hack, that idea there. Wow. Really good stuff. So how do you combine all the success in business with this background in neuroscience and fear? And how does it turn into this? I mean, I asked myself two questions.

I said, what's the thing that scares me the most? And the thing that scared me the most was giving away what I consider to be my secret family recipe. Yeah, open source. The thing, exactly. Taking this code, if you will, and saying, you know what, there's more good in the world, more good will happen if I just give this away. And it was a decision I grappled with for a long time because it was kind of my secret sauce. Like Coca-Cola saying, all right, here's the recipe. It's like Elon Musk saying, here's the open source code for everything that we're doing.

Go for it. You know? We're Tesla, but we're going to teach you exactly how we're building our cars. and make a world a better place. And so it was this moment that I grappled with. The other thing that had a big impact on me is I asked myself a question. Someone ran through this exercise,

and it's a powerful exercise that we can all run through. I'll do the abridged version of it. It goes a little something like this. You imagine for a moment, you close your eyes, you imagine for a moment that you're sick like I was, and it's not me in the hospital bed. It's you in the hospital bed. You imagine the doctors come in, they say,

all right, Ken, sorry, we've done everything that we can. it's time to say your goodbyes. And you think about all the people that you love in your life, your mom, your dad, your siblings, everyone, all your close friends, they come in, they say goodbye. And the last person you say goodbye to is a small person in your life.

You want your kids, niece, and nephew, a small child. You have one last piece of advice. It's your last piece of advice that you're going to leave the last person you speak to before you pass on to wherever. What do you say to that person? Leave it all in the first. field. Yes. And I had this moment, this fear that I hadn't yet left it all on the field.

Well said. Yeah, that's great. So you're like, okay, so now you're on fire. Totally. I just found that there's this other gear, kick it into the sixth gear and just been running ever since. Okay, so here's the deal, folks. You've got to get this book. You know, if you've been listening to this broadcast for any length of time, you know that I'm going to pull some stuff out and we cannot possibly give it to you. But let's talk about the methodology of ask. there's several steps to the process, which you've come up with a little bit shorter version. Sure. And just enough to tease everybody.

So there's three that I want to walk through. So if you're taking notes, folks, it's Discover, segment, and launch. So before we go into Discover, just give us a summary here of why those words and what this really is, and then we'll dive deep into each one. Sure. So in a nutshell, what is ask and what is the ask method? Yes. So it's a marketing methodology that uses questions to understand.

the deep emotional pain and challenges and struggles that your market is running into. And then with that information, help you better sell and better serve by segmenting people into different buckets. So rather than selling in a one-size-fits-all-way, it's about identifying someone's bucket so you can tailor the messaging that you put in front of someone and the products that you sell that person. So finally, you launch this new business or this new product into the world. I love it. Okay. So, So discover. Sure.

We know what the word means, but what does it mean when we think of the ask method? Discover is all about understanding your market, your audience, at a very deep way. Now, the tool that we use to do this is we use surveys, but not just any survey, right? One of the biggest mistakes that people make when they do any sort of surveying with their audience is they ask the wrong questions. Inevitably, someone sees the title and this concept of the ask method, and they say, okay, I get it. Is it as simple as just ask people what they want and give it to them? And then it evokes that Henry Ford quote that we're all familiar with, right? Where he says, if I would have asked people what they wanted, they would have told me faster horses, right?

So the question is, what type of questions can you ask? And this is a writer-downer. It's only two things, two types of information that people are really good at giving you an accurate answer for. The first is people don't know what they want. That's right. If I said, hey, what do you feel like for dinner tonight? Yeah. You don't know.

Yeah. want for dinner. People are really good at knowing what it is that they don't want. Second type of information, people aren't really good at projecting at what they would do in the future. People are really good at telling you what they've done in the past. So like you were telling me about the evening that you had last night, you could recall that evening very accurately. Sure. But I said, what are your plans for tonight? I have no idea. No idea, right? So when you think about your customers, you want to think about the types of questions. that you want to ask. And I'll give you a good one. A good question to ask in a discovery or deep

dive survey is when it comes to X, X being the problem that you solve in your business, what's your single biggest challenge, frustration, or struggle? Please be as detailed that you're running into right now. What are those three things? Challenge? Challenge, frustration, or struggle that you're running into right now. Good. Folks, you've got to get that. You got to pause right here. Pause it right now. And you've got to write that down. You just can't gloss through that. This is really, really good stuff. Okay, so that's the way to discover. And again, I don't want to move on just yet.

Sure. Because those two questions, what it is, you've got to ask your customers, what it is they don't want, and what they've done in the past. Those things, and here's what's great about that, I think. I'm going to ask you if this is true. Not only are you going to be able to elicit answers from those questions, but it also warms their brain up and engages them quickly, I would think. Totally. And here's why I'm asking this, and I want you to expound on this. When we engage with these effective questions, it opens the door up for the minutia and getting more out of them.

What I'm saying is it, it's like priming the pump. Am I right? For sure. And that's an important distinction, because another big mistake that people make when they use surveys is they ask a lot of closed-ended questions. Yes. Are you a man or a woman? What's your gender? There's no follow-up to that.

Right. And what you want to pay attention to, this is another soundbite, is. Rather than focus on what I call the myth of the FAQ, focusing on the most frequently asked questions or the most frequent responses, you want to focus on depth of response. What that means is you want to be paying attention to the people that give you the longest,

most passionate, most detailed, open-ended responses. If someone pours their heart out and writes you a book when you say, what's your biggest challenge? When it comes to raising your kids, what's your biggest challenge right now? Me? I'm just saying, you know,

if you ask a question like that, right? Did you see it? I was already in. I was like in. I didn't even know if it was rhetorical. I was like, all right, I'm in on this. I mean, are you kidding me? Yeah.

I got three, you know. Yeah, so, you know, we could talk all day about that. Yeah, you're absolutely right. That's important because, folks, if you're watching this, I literally sat up at attention because I wasn't sure. Yeah. If you were walking me through an experiment, but that's the point. Sure.

That deep of a personal question like that, that's engagement. It's huge. Absolutely huge. Okay. I'm a question nerd. That's why I did the follow-up. on there. All right, next segment.

Yep. Okay. We've discovered what we need to discover. Yep. Why do we need to segment? How do we segment? So what we do is we ask an open-ended question, right? So, for example, when it comes to raising your kids, what's your biggest challenge

right now? Now we ask not one person, but we ask a dozen people, a hundred people, depending on what your business is. If you have a business that's a product-based business and you're serving thousands or tens of thousands of people, we're going to ask a lot of people. If you have a service-based business, maybe you serve a small number of of clients in a deep way, while we ask maybe a dozen of your past clients or prospective clients. And what you'll see when you ask these open-ended questions is you'll start to see themes.

You'll start to see buckets naturally emerge. And naturally there's a process to figure this out. Once you identify what buckets exist, you want to focus on the top three to five different segments of your market. And this is a big mistake that people make online. They treat everybody the same way, right? Imagine if instead of with the guests that you have on your show, every guest that you have, it's a slightly different experience. Yeah, absolutely. But imagine if you were like a robot.

Yeah. And it didn't matter who the guest was, didn't matter what topic they were going to speak on, you asked the same exact questions, gave them the same exact experience. How else is that going to work? People would stop listening. Totally. Yeah. What do we do online? Yeah.

Same thing. Someone goes to your website. What happens? Yeah. Answer these 10 questions. Everyone has the same exact experience. Yeah. They get to your website and what do you do?

You ask them for maybe their name and email. You say sign up from my newsletter. You say, here are my product. but we don't take time to ask. And so what segment is, imagine on your website, instead of whatever your homepage is, if you're listening to this right now, instead of your homepage right now,

imagine it's a video of you or a little bit of text that says, you know, hi, my name is Ryan. Let's do the parenting example. Hi, my name is Ryan, and I help parents have a better relationship with their kids. And what I found is that when it comes to having a better relationship with your kids, there's kind of three to five big challenges

that most parents struggle with. If you take a moment to tell me a little bit about your situation, I'll be able to put you in touch with the best resource for you based on where you are right now. And that's what segment is all about. It's about putting something on your website that connects people based on their situation, the challenge that they're running into right now with the best product that you sell, the best resource that you offer, maybe the best blog post or the best episode of your podcast.

Right? Imagine for your business. Hey, we help leaders have a more successful life, Take a moment to tell us what your challenge is right now. I'll put you in touch with the best episode for you to listen to first based on what you're struggling with right now. That's what Segment is all about. Yeah, boy, that's really good. Again, I've got to come back to this. That's a great way to get engagement. That best way to get that first toe in the water for that prospective client.

Absolutely. Yeah, that's magical. All right. Last one is Launch. Discover Segment Now Launch. This is more of a mindset thing as it is a practical application. Most people I find online with their website is they are okay doing a little bit of research. They build something, they put it in place, and then they expect to hit a home run with the first swing at the bat.

Launch is all about taking that work that you've done. You've built this segmentation funnel, whether it's a quiz, an assessment, or maybe just a single question that you ask on your website, so you can better serve that individual, and then you launch it into the world. Once you launch it into the world, it's about tweaking. It's about saying, oh, okay, I thought, I was expecting. 25% of people to say this, it's only 5%. Maybe I need to do some tweaks. Maybe I need to ask a different question and then making the changes based on that. Then how do we as business leaders, and again, you just gave us a very brief because again, this is so rich, folks, the science behind this is so great. How do we continue this process? And where I'm going with this, this isn't a one-time

thing, what is the best way to make this a part of the process? Sure. So this is repeatable. We see it in multiple divisions of a company. Institutionalizing is really the question. How do we institutionalize this in our business? For sure. So ask is as much a methodology as it is a philosophy.

When you think about it, we make so many decisions as entrepreneurs, as business leaders, that we effectively are trying to guess. Now, these are educated guesses based on. on our gut. But when you start identifying that the answers are easy, it's the questions that are hard. It's about figuring out what to ask to give you clarity and confidence on any decision that you make in your business. So, for example, in our business, we run at least one to two of these deep dive surveys every single month. And it creates a great narrative in your company. When you say, hey, last month, we asked you about X, Y, Z problem. What we found was this,

this and this. Now, we've made these changes to our product. So thank you so much for telling us about what's going on. Now, as a follow-up to that, we'd love to go deeper on this other topic here, right? So, for example, you know, last month I asked when it comes to raising your kids, what's your biggest challenge? And one of the biggest themes that came up was getting your kiddos to not fight each other. Yeah. And so we're going to go deeper on that. We'd love to know when it comes to getting your kiddos to love each other and, you know, what do they fight most about? Yeah, what do they fight most about? Yeah, I like that. Man, that's really good. All right, So again, in institutionalizing this and getting to a point of stepping back and go, where are we at right now?

So somebody who goes, all right, I'm in. Ryan, this is great. I got to do this. I got to get the book. I got to read it. I got to apply it. But what is it going to look like for me after I read this book and I dive in? What do I need to do before I just go start knocking stuff off the shelf?

Totally. First thing you do is get clarity around. What's the biggest question that you have in your business right now? And there's a framework that I teach. Is it about a new market? that you're thinking about going into? Is it about your existing market, but you think you might have some blind spots?

Maybe you don't feel like you understand your current market well enough. Maybe there's a new product that you're thinking about launching, but before you launch it, you want to understand what that product needs to address, what features, what benefits you need to include, or maybe you have an existing product that people aren't buying, and you want to figure out why they're not buying. So you get clarity on which of those four things

is most important to you right now, and what the book goes into is the specific point. questions you ask based on what it is that you're looking to accomplish. Yeah, that's good. It's so good, good, good, good. All right. So when this methodology becomes common practice, sure. What is it going to do for businesses? I mean, what's the end result? Like, if you could have lunch with every one of our listeners. Yep. And you're like, hey, listen, here's the book, go read it. But here's what I want you to do with this. Like, here's the ultimate, because this is a passion play for you. It is. started off with that. Yeah. So what do you want to see? What's the ultimate vision for this method?

Sure. If we just spent more time asking first, then it's going to help you better sell, and it's going to help you better serve. So not only is going to benefit you as a business leader, you're not only going to grow your company, but your customers are going to be better off, because right now what ends up happening is this. You sell something, right? Customers want this. There's a gap. This closes that gap. So what does it look like for a business leader executing this? this, number one, you're doing a deep dive survey to your audience every single month. Once a month, 12 a year. Number two, on your homepage, instead of just guessing who someone is, you're taking the time

to say, hey, I don't know you, but if you take a little moment to answer a few simple questions to tell me a little bit about your situation, we'll be able to point you in the right direction so we can better serve you. So I want to follow up on that because you said that a couple times, and that is literally get a video on your homepage and right underneath of it. I mean, let's just be super practical. Is it right underneath the video? It's as simple as a simple little video,

click the button, answer three simple questions, and I'll see you on the other side. And do you find that there is a lot of engagement with that? People love that. Imagine if you went into a website and you said, if I said, you know, what's something that you purchased recently in your life,

anything, anything? Shoes. Shoes. Yes. Love shoes. Hey, Ken, welcome to the site. Yeah. You know, we've got a lot of shoes here.

And honestly, we don't want you to have to waste your time waiting through a bunch of stuff that's not interesting to you. Take a moment to tell us. a little bit about your taste, about what sort of shoes you've enjoyed wearing in the past. With that information, we'll be able to direct you to a couple different options, we might think would be a good fit for you. Interesting.

Okay. Let me play devil's advocate, not because I think that I found a crack. Yeah. But from an effectiveness standpoint. Sure. How do you get engagement for the person who's just like me? Who's like so ADHD. Yep.

And it's like, I appreciate that, but I just want to go look. Sure. Because that's a challenge. Sure. I'm not saying that everybody's like me. Sure. But I'm saying, how can we be even more sticky with that? Sure.

How do you combat that? Because you've got some people just going to go, I don't want any survey, I don't want any follow up, I just want to go browse. Sure. And you might have dual paths. What often happens is it becomes an iterative process, right? Where someone goes in and they say, I can't find what I'm looking for. And that's where you're having the side of your site, you say, hey, still need help? Haven't found what you're looking for?

Haven't found what you're looking for yet? You've got to take the survey, you moron. I mean, essentially, right? We're not going to say that, but that's why that's there. Yeah. I like that. Okay, that's great. Yeah.

Because I tried to be as honest as I could on that situation because I'm the guy who's hyper impatient. Totally. So that's probably a small percentage. You're saying most people enjoy sharing their opinion is what you're saying. What ends up happening? And that's the thing. So there's a thing that you brought up that's really, really important, and that's this.

People hate taking surveys. Yeah. Okay. People hate taking surveys. Yeah. That's a big mistake that people make. is we're just calling it a survey internally like this. Ah.

People hate taking surveys, but they love taking quizzes. Oh, really? So there's, we talk about the nuance of language and subtleties. Well, it's huge. Just ever reframing something like this. Take a quiz to find out what type of shoe buyer you are, or what type of shoe is right for you. Okay, this is fascinating.

Give me the science behind this. Yeah. Is it, I like asking a question because I don't mind being wrong. Yeah, my question. Sure. Is the association with quiz more possible? positive than survey because survey is, they want to know my opinion versus quiz.

I want to see how I do. Exactly. Is that what it is? It's ever so slight in terms of the difference, right? Survey is self-serving for me. Take my survey. I'll give you another one that's really powerful. So this is another pro tip when you're asking that question around what's your biggest challenge.

The big mistake that people are going to make, if they don't hear what I'm about to say, is they're going to say, will you take a moment to answer my survey and tell me what's your biggest challenge? Yeah, it's all about you. all about me. You hear a survey, it evokes these memories of, you know, getting a customer service survey on the phone when you're having dinner with your family. It's just like the worst possible time. We all have negative connotation. But here's the thing. And you've probably seen this with your guests. And I'll do this right now for you. And you're going to, I'm going to pay attention to your body language and your response. Oh, this is very exciting. This is very

exciting. You say, hey, Ken, thinking about doing a show like yours, can I ask for your advice on something? Yeah, absolutely. See that subtle change? Versus, hey, Ken, can you take this survey for me? Yeah. if you ask someone for their advice. So now think about this. Imagine if I send you to know that. Spot on. Can I ask for your advice on something?

Immediately, what is it? It's all about them. It's a sign of respect. I've elevated your status. I've edified you because I've said, I believe in you enough that I want to ask for your advice. That's exactly right. So there are all these little sort of nuanced elements.

And that's why I say in the book, the devil's in the details, right? It's not as simple as just ask people what they want and give it to them. You have to use the right words to elicit the truth. So are we saying, Ryan, that the word quiz, get it right out there on the site and bold letters? Put quiz. Okay. Any other words that work?

Advice is a big one. Quiz is a big one. Okay. Might is a big one. When you're asking questions, what might be the biggest challenge? Gives them the option because certainty paralyzes people. It makes people feel like... When I say, tell me exactly what you think right now.

People go, whoa, dude, hey, easy. Yeah. If there's one thing that you would change about anything, what might that be? If I said, what's the number one most important thing you want to change? Immediately, it feels like there's a right answer and a wrong answer. And as soon as you feel like you've been cornered like that, it paralyzes you exactly what you just said. So there's certain words, and that's why we talked about before the interview,

I'm so obsessed with the nuance of language and how just ever slight linguistic differences in the way that you frame questions, which for you is so fascinating. I mean, you've probably asked questions a million different ways in your career, and you found that when you ask it a certain way, That's right. You get a different type of response. But I just learned something right there.

I just learned something right there. Putting the word might in there when you're trying to dig important stuff out for somebody, I've realized that before that some people have the hardest time just answering a question like, what are your top three strings? Yeah. Because that's so certain. Sure. How do you ask that question?

If I say to somebody, give me your top two or three talents. I know this because I do a radio show on this. Sure. Some people struggle to answer that. Sure. How do I say that better where it opens them up? So we pick a person or we pick a group of people. If we were to ask your colleagues what your top two or three strengths are, what might they

say? That's exactly how I say that. Because I've learned the other way locks them up. Yeah. We don't like to talk about ourselves. Totally. Taking the stress off the certainty and just going, hey, this is a carefree answer. That's essentially what you're saying might.

What might it be? Oh, that's good. Can you tell it? I love this stuff. This is great stuff. Awesome. Well, Ryan, I'm going to tell you, the book is really, really great. I want everybody to go get it.

I think it is, I would say, if you were going to pick 12 books to read in the next 12 months, this is one of the books. I mean that sincerely. I think it's absolutely vital. Appreciate you coming by. I want to have you back because what I'd like to do is just go deep dive on every chapter. I think it's that valuable. Tell folks real quick how they can connect with you.

why they should connect with you. Sure. If you go to ask method.com, you actually get a free copy of the book. Ships it anywhere in the world. We just have to pay shipping and handling. Oh, my gosh. You don't even have to buy the book.

So we make it super duper easy. And it's a great starting point because I think there is an immediate opportunity as a next step that anyone can do immediately following this interview. It's just ask that question. When it comes to X, what's your biggest challenge? You will be fascinated with the responses that you got.

I back him up. And now all you're going to do is pay shipping and handling. That's probably four bucks or less anywhere in the United States. Am I right? Yep. Four bucks. We're going to go because I need to talk about Ryan about charging for this book because I think this is, I think he should be charging you maybe 50 bucks for this book.

And you're going to get it for four bucks. So he's clearly good in business, but in this area, the insulin has affected his brain. We'll talk about that. But no, man, having great fun with this because I really do think this is important. Thanks for being with us. Absolutely. Thank you. Big thanks to Ryan for hanging out with us and for offering his book for free. Very smart guy.

And Eric the Brewster had a great idea. So here's what we want to do. Some of you were listening in and you're going, oh, I sure would love to do some follow-up questions with Ryan that are related to my business. And so we're going to offer that to you. If you would like to have Ryan go one-on-one with you to dissect your business, give you some very specific answers, we're going to open it up to the first five callers. So you want to call in. We'll set it up.

And we'll just go Larry King style. Some of you don't even know who Larry King is. So we go Ken Coleman style back and forth, Ryan and you. How about that? First five callers. So this is a little fun challenge. Podcast at Entreeleadership.com is the email address. First five.

Podcast at Entreeleadership.com. First five that email Eric the producer and say, hey, I want to go one-on-one with Ryan Leveck. Well, you're going to get your chance. Hey, I told you at the time. top of the broadcast that we're going to give you two tools that would help you with sales. First out of the gate is Infusion Softs. Are you losing leads tool? They have a calculator that's going to take you about five minutes or less to assess how much potential revenue you may be missing out on. They've written an algorithm for this and it works. It's unbelievable.

Think about how valuable this is to you to be able to just take a snapshot, a very detailed and accurate snapshot on what's happening with your leads. If you'd like to get it, it's absolutely free. Infusionsoft.com slash calculate revenue. That's infusionsoft.com slash calculate revenue. And the Entree leadership team bringing you our super selling cheat sheet. Now, this is something we've offered many times before, a very, very popular resource. This is going to help you with figuring out the secret to serving your customers well. What's it based in? Well, the disc personality profile, you've probably heard of it, and it's utilizing disc tactics, which essentially means if you understand how your customers are wired, what is their personality profile,

how do they process, how do they perceive information, then you can sell the right way. And so you're going to hear in my conversation with Antonio, he talks about how to sell, what not to do, voice tone needs, how they buy. This is all coming from a understanding of personal. personality type and be able to read your customers. So a great resource. You need to jump on this. If you're unfamiliar with this, trust me, start here. This is really going to get you engaged. Text the word super sales. So I know that's two words, but we've crammed them together. No space. Super Sales. Text that to 3-3-444. That's 33-444. And you can get the link in the show notes at

at entreleadership.com. Click on podcast. Up next is another sales ninja. Antonio Garito, author of the book asking questions, The Sandler Way. He'll talk a little bit about that. What is the Sandler way? Why does it matter? Really is effective stuff. Tried and true. And Antonio has become a master at the process.

I'm a person who loves question asking, and I study the process. And Antonio is a guy who really believes in the art of questions. I appreciate that. I love it. I think this conversation is really going to help you. So listen in. is Antonio Garito. Well, this is exciting.

Joining me in studio is Antonio Garito, and he is the author of this book right here, asking questions, The Sandler Way, advanced questioning strategies for sales professionals. So before we do some deep dive content, the sandler way, some people may be familiar with that. They may not. And so when you title a book with that, you're like, okay, I'm tied to this. There's no shame in your game. So what is the Sandler way?

How do they, or how do you, if you're trying to tell you? in that asked questions. So the Sandler organization, we're 50 years old this year, all around the world, 275 offices across the globe, and we've been doing this for a very long time, where we recognize as an organization that to guide our prospects and clients down the right route is all about how we ask questions. It's about the flow of information coming this way as opposed to going that way, which is kind of 180. From most people in the sales organization, they've been. believe that their value is by the information that they give as opposed to the information they get. Does that make sense?

So, you know, I'm a professional question asker. Our audience knows this. I love the art of curiosity. I think it can be an art that is developed. I agree. I know you understand that. 100% agree. Let's talk. Team was buzzing when I walked in before our interview. You talked to the Entry leadership team a little bit earlier today. You were talking about strategic versus tactical questions. Okay. Right. And I thought this would be kind of fun before we dive into some other But what's the difference between a strategic question and a tactical question? So unfortunately, when you talk to people in the commercial world, you say, well, what are the questions, what typical questions do you ask people? And you go through their question set, because most salespeople and managers and organizations, if you pay attention to the questions that you get asked in your particular business, in your particular channel, in your particular market, in your particular

area, you probably get asked about 30 or 40 of the same questions just in a different pair of trousers on our weekly basis, right? You get asked the same kind of question. So the first thing I would like you to do is look at the questions that you get asked and instead of giving stock answers to them, just be a little bit more strategic about the answers that you give. So write down over the next couple of weeks, if anybody's watching, write down the questions that they get asked on a regular basis. And now instead of of answering that question, what I'd like you to do is figure out how to answer that question with another question, right? So if somebody said to me, for example, how many officers

do Sandler have? And I get asked that question a lot. The truth of the matter is 275 at this point in time. So if you were to ask me how many officers a Sandler got and you're a prospect of mine, and I say 275, I've done a very bad thing. Even though I've given you 100% the truth, what I haven't done is increased my understanding of anything. So if you said to me how many officers of Sandler got, and I say 275, I've completely cul-de-sacred myself,

and I've painted myself into a corner, and that's a terrible answer to get. However, if you said to me how many officers of Sandler got, and I say to you, do you know, of all the questions that you could ask me now, That's a really interesting question. Why is that important? We call that reversing.

I've reversed it because I'm reversing the flow of information. Instead of saying 275, I've asked why is that important. Now, there may be people watching and say, well, if the answer is 275, say 275. The fact of the matter is, if you ask me how many officers and I say 275, they could be thinking, these guys sound expensive. Or he could be thinking, I'm going to be a very small fish in a very big pond. Or he could be thinking, you know, I just wanted, you know, bespoke consultancy and these guys are just going to be cookie cut to stuff. There's a million motivations for you asking a question.

You ask me a question, and I'm going to reverse it by saying, of all the questions you could ask, why is that? Now, that's being a bit more strategic that's just some tactically answering questions. That's the first thing. Second thing is, if I said to you, let's assume that you were a prospect of mine, how many offices have you got, right? How long have you been in business? who you competing with, they're really dumb questions. Now, there may be people watching other, but that's just bonding and rapport questions, and I ask those questions all the time.

But I promise you they're really dumb questions. If I can get that answer anywhere else, I shouldn't be asking you that question. It's a dumb question. Like, how many people work for your organization? It's such a, a much smarter question that gets to the root of the problem that we're maybe helping solve one day is, and when we're talking about, about this earlier, I hope you see the difference. The tactical question is how long have you been in business? And the strategic question is, what dynamics do you see in the marketplace right

now that's having the most disruptive impact on your business? That's a smarter question, agreed? Well, that talks to strategy of your business strategy, what's going on in your business? So what are those disruptive elements in the market right now that are having the most negative impact on your business is a much smarter question? And that's a strategic question. And if we can pepper our conversation as sales and managers and owners of businesses with a ton of really smart questions where the guy says to himself mentally internally, oh my God, that's such a good question. If we can mentally make him sweat, right, then we are differentiating ourselves from our competitors because your competitors, they are going and sitting down in front of the same

prospect and saying, tell me how long have you been in business. So I want to talk about spending our time on the five S's. Okay. This is really good stuff. Strategy, structure, sales, skills, and staff. Right. So why are those five Ss is so vitally important?

So most of the small business owners, people that are trying to run their organization, let's assume that the chap's an electrician. He's figured out how to be a tremendous electrician. And when he's trying to grow his business and scale his business, and he knows how to be an electrician, what he's not so great at, And that's not all electricians watching.

Is how to grow their business. And when you boil down, well, what are the things that are giving them the biggest challenges? Those that are flying, those that are succeeding in doing terribly well, they don't have that many challenges. But those that are struggling, you know, they have a vision for the company and they're not quite where they hope to be at this point in time. Then there's a gap between where they are and where they wanted to be. And when you drill into that gap, you say, okay, well, let's boil it. Let's ask why five times and boil down. where your challenges are, they normally fall into one of these buckets. But strategy, structure,

skills, staff, that's what people are concerned about. Now, here's the magic. Your prospects are concerned about this too, right? So you as a business owner, you've got to figure out, is your structure right? Is your strategy right? Are your staffs right? If the skills right, you know, you go to market, you sell it, is all of that right? You've got to figure all that out. but normally when you're talking to one of your prospects, they're suffering in some way. The way that we described them in Sandoah as pain indicators. They are the things that indicate where somebody's struggling or suffering. When you're going out into the marketplace to sell your products and services,

you've got to have a same conversation with your prospects to say, where are you suffering, where you're struggling, where's the gap between where you are and where you need to be, and how can we potentially help you? Do our products and services typically help people that look like this? So we encourage, we train all the time about pain indicators. What are the things that we solve for? What do they sound like when we hear them?

So when I go off into the world, I don't say to people, we are really good at helping people who are struggling with their sales. So we don't say we help people that are struggling with their sales. We try to have a conversation with them about the pains that they're having. But we'll have a pain conversation that'll say something like, we work with people who look similar to you, and then we'll pick one of these pain points, who look at the bottom right-hand corner of the spreadsheet every month,

and they look at the profit line, and it's not quite where they wanted it to be. And we don't let that happen. But maybe you're actually perfectly delighted with your profit. So let me just stop for one second, in parentheses, know they're not because nobody is. So we'll say maybe you're perfectly happy with your profit. But what's frustrating you may be is you're looking at your sales cycle and your sales cycle is too long.

And you can't get any urgency out of your buyers. And we don't let that happen either. But maybe you are getting an urgency out of your buyers. And maybe your sales cycle is going shorter in parentheses. No, it's not. Or maybe what you're looking at is you're wondering why you're losing market share. The only way you can get market share is by discounting. Now, I don't know much about your business.

frank, but did any of that resonate, right? So what you're doing is you're having a conversation that's based around pain indicators. And when somebody says, well, yeah, maybe, and then you go, well, okay, which of those? And then they'll say, well, talk to me about that profit thing. Well, now you can have a pain conversation about profit. So the point is, I encourage everybody, figure out what pains. So don't basically say, we are great plumbers or we are great electricians or we are great dog trainers, whatever it is that you do. Don't say that because no one was going to believe it. But figure out what it.

So I was talking to somebody the other day. She has like a fitness studio for kids. So kids come along and then they teach them gymnastics and there's a confidence building and all of that kind of stuff. And I said, well, describe to me what you do. When you go out into the marketplace, what do you tell people you do? And all that she did was describe the business that she had. And I said, well, what you need to do is you need to have a conversation that describes how you address the pains that people have.

So a parent who is worried that their child isn't getting enough socialization or isn't having enough healthy play at school or isn't active enough or whatever, you fix those things for people that look a little bit like you. So you've got to figure out what pains, what issues you address and have that conversation. a pain-based conversation, as opposed to a feature function benefit conversation. Does that make sense? Does that answer your question? Yeah, well, I mean, the overview was strategy, structure, sales, skills, staff. We talked a little bit about strategy, but structure is so important, too. One example is we've got a position, maybe it would be a sales leader that we need to hire,

but I'm not sure how to get that right person. Another example you give is, hey, I've got a good team, but I don't feel like I'm developing them. Yeah, well enough. Where does structure play into that? So I know that you guys are big believers in disk, for example, right? So we don't do any engagement or training for any of our clients if we haven't profiled them first because you just can't, right? So if somebody has a staffing issue, we kind of figure out, well, how do you hire? You know, what's your hiring process look like?

What does that look like? You know, we talk to so many people in the small entrepreneur world. that largely have recruited people that they like, right? But what they haven't done is they haven't done the person profile exactly what does this person not like. They haven't done the roles and responsibilities. They haven't figured out how to onboard a person properly or even to identify that this is the right person.

They haven't figured out what's the right compensation plan for these people, right? So if you don't do all of those things, you're kind of you're looking for trouble. And if you've got people that are on your company and they are working well for you, I'll tell you what, it's more by look than judgment, right? So we try and be very professional about all of these kind of things. So if anybody's watching and they're thinking, you know, we don't have the right structure in place, we don't have the right staff in place.

You know, what I'm going to say is find somebody that can help you with that, right? You know, you're the expert electrician. You're not the expert HR department because you've never had to do that. But now you're recruiting staff. You need to learn how to be a, and you know, you can either learn by experience and 20 bad hires and $2 million later, you're going to say to yourself, all right, now I figured out how to do it. Well, most of your clients and most of our clients haven't got $2 million in 20 years to figure out how to do that kind of stuff, right? So find out what good looks like, what world class looks like, map it out, draw it out, and then go, if I were a rock star recruitment, guy, you know, what that looks like.

So we go around in the world and we say to people, we'll talk to me about your sales staff. Talk to me about them. And then they'll go, well, we've got eight guys. And I'll go, okay, so standard distribution belt chart. You're going to have a couple of A players, a couple of B players, couple of C players. Tell me who the C players are.

And you know what? When we talk to business owners, they know who the C players are. And then we say to them, okay, so what are you going to do with it? You know, every time you fire someone, it's a failure, right? But sometimes, you know, at Sando, we say, hire slow and fire fast, right? And so whilst I go into the world talking to people about organizations about their staff and the people that they have on board, as the people that are watching this podcast, you know, take a hard look at your staff.

You know, these days, you can't afford Deadwood. You can't afford any spectators. For those that aren't involved, that aren't engaged, that aren't working. Now, sometimes it's the leader's fault, okay? And you're going to have to have a look in the mirror and figure that out. But look at yourself, look at the leader that you are, look at the accountability leader that you are, the way that you're managing your team. And if you're doing that well and people aren't performing, then you've got to give them

something else to do. You've got to train them up or you've got to get them out. Let me ask you this because obviously the book is about asking questions and a lot of it is geared towards sales and prospects. But since we're talking about staff, you know, we're talking about structure. Those are two of the Ss here. Yeah. The types of questions that leaders need to be asking, they're listening and watching right now,

and they may sense, hey, my culture might not be where it really should be. Right. I may not be developing leaders as well as I should. Yeah. But instead of walking in there, you know, and just like a bull in a china shop, some good questions. Which is what they often do. Oh, sure. So there's a thing in the book, the difference between an interrogation and an interview.

Oh, that's good. I'm hoping that nobody that's watching. It's ever been arrested by taking him for questioning by the FBI. We've all watched enough movies and television shows. Exactly. Right. So we know the difference between an interview and an interrogation.

But when you talk to the nice chaps of the FBI, who let's be honest, right, are pretty good at trying to get to the truth. They're good at questioning people. That's their thing. Now, a lot of leaders look at the bottom right-hand corner at the spreadsheet every month and think, this isn't working, right?

Grumpy, grumpy, grumpy. And they'll go, I'm going to go out there, and I'm going to go and ask some questions. And really what they do is they get people into their office and they start interrogating them. And intuitively, we know what an interrogation feels like versus what, you know, an interview feels like, right? So when...

For some people, let's just have fun with this. Let's not just assume. I would attach words to it, but what would you attach? If you were to attach an emotion with an interrogation versus an interview, what would the emotion? Well, fear. Right. So let's define those two things.

And the FBI, you know, they define an interrogation. This is what their objective is. They say that an interrogation, the objective is an interrogation, is to have the person do or say something that's against their best interests. So I'm actively trying to get you, if I'm interrogating you, to say or do something. that's against your best interest. My objective is to get you purge yourself. Incriminate yourself.

Incriminate yourself. That's my objective. Whereas an interview is a set of questioning designed to uncover the truth. They're not the same thing. So a lot of leaders go out into their business and think Frank's messed up and they'll go and barrage Frank

and like get the guy to say something to incriminate himself. Why do you do this? Why do you do that? It's very ultra-D, ultra-aggressive, and no, not at all helpful. Because at the end of the day, it's about trying to get to the truth. And that's all we as leaders are trying to do to get to the truth. Here's the magic. Most people will go to their boss or when a boss says, hey, listen, tell me the story about this.

What they will actually tell the boss is about 97% of the truth, right? they'll tell the boss most of the truth but they won't tell them the whole truth the full truth and nothing but the truth they'll tell them a version of the truth they'll tell some of the truth but you know what the magic the bit that you really need is in that 3%

that they're not telling you so it's your job to try and get to that 3% like the FBI's job to where were you on Wednesday at 3 right so get to that bit of the truth and again they do strategic and tactical questioning they ask a question and then the last that question in three different pairs of trousers

and see that those answers all lie up, they'll come back to the same point again and again and again. At Sandler, we call, when you're in front of a prospect and you're giving information that's against your best interest, so all the people that are watching and the sales guys that you've got

and they're going out to the world and they're talking to your prospect and they're giving information that's against your best interest, we call that unpaid consultancy, where you're going out to the world and you're just running your mouth, and you're giving lots of free stuff away,

and we don't kind of like that kind of stuff, right? So what the FBI do, when they're questioning someone, they have a pre-call plan. Well, we call that a pre-call plan. They have questions that they have in advance figured out, and they're going to ask you a bunch of questions, and they write them down in advance, right? And the reason that they do that is because for active listening,

you're an interviewer, you get this. If I ask you a question, and then you're responding, And I have no idea what my next question is. I'm not actually listening to you. I'm thinking what my next question should be. And it's the old listen to respond versus listen to understand. And the FBI are trying to listen to understand instead of listen to respond. Make sense?

So you've got to have a pre-call plan like the FBI do. They don't just go and arrest people. They have a plan, right? And they have stuff written down and timelines and they have a whole bunch of... And well, I was going to just say, there's one other thing here because you're absolutely right. It's not just that the FBI has a... planned and they know what the questions are next, but they're also listening so intently that they can get off on a rabbit trail.

Yes. A specific rabbit trail. Yeah. When they start finding out something. Yeah. But they can go on that trail because they know they can get back on the path because of the plan. I just wanted to point that out because most people don't understand that. I do that as an interviewer, which means I got to listen to you. Right. Because if I'm listening to you, I might skip three questions. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you take me somewhere else that I think the audience needs to go. Yeah. So I just wanted to point that out. And I know you agree with that. That's what I would call really active listening. 100%.

And he comes back to the first question you asked me. I will never call a prospect. I will never go and see a prospect or a client without a bunch of questions written down in advance. Never, ever, ever. And neither should anybody that's watching. So you know what your business is organization's strength and weaknesses are. So rather than, you know, play to your weaknesses, let's play to your strength. Let's assume that you think that one of your competitive strengths is that you're local.

You're an independent, your local versus the national, the multinational mega chain. And you think small, local, personalized service is a competitive strength versus, right, the huge mega brand that you're also competing with. So if you go along to people and say, hey, we're small and we're local, that's all your do. data. But instead, if you kind of figure out that I want my prospects to believe that small and local and great service is a competitive advantage, I would angle my questions in advance such that I would say, are you the kind of guy that looks like a lot of our clients who believes there is value in small, local, independent, competitive and great service? Let's say that. Let's say the guy goes, no. Well, then he's not a prospect for you. But let's say the guy says, well, yeah,

you know, maybe. And you're going to go, well, what are the things that you like about small and local? They go, well, small and local is good because of da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Well, now we've got some stuff that we can work on. We can play on these things. And these are now paying indicators because we say, well, have you ever done any business with those large mega brands? And they go, yeah. Well, tell me about a time when you discovered that you don't like working with them. Oh, well, we had this time. It was awful and it took them four days to get back to us. And then instead of going, okay, well, that makes sense. You go, well, four days. And how did that make you feel? Oh, terrible. We had customers that were like screaming and shouting. Customer screaming

and shouting. Well, that can't be good for your reputation, right? And it goes, no, it's terrible for our reputation. And then you go, well, when you told them that they were letting you down and they should give you better service. Well, what did they say? Well, they said we're in a queue and they'll get back to us when we can. In a queue and get back to it, right? So you're having this whole pain conversation so that when you give them your price ultimately, they're going to go, well, it may be a slightly more than the bigger mega brand, but it reinforces all of the good stuff we said about being small, local and independent. Does that make sense? Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, so it's about the questions you ask and the way that you ask intelligent questions. We had a training session earlier.

And it's like, and I know you weren't here, so I'll just repeat it. You know when you go to the specialist, right, the medical specialist, let's say you've got a bad knee. When the medical specialist asks you a million questions about your knee? When did it start? Have you ever had it before? Is it one knee or two knees? Is it your knees in your elbows? Does it ever happen to anyone else in the family?

Is it worse in the morning or at night? Is it hot to the touch? And can we take some bloods and an x-ray and ask you a gazillion questions and then prescribes a solution? What do you think? You think this is the thing that's going to help. That's exactly what I need. But if the guy goes and says, oh, knees, I'm great with knees. We do knees all of the time, right?

Put this cream on. And if it doesn't work in a couple of weeks, give me a call. You're going to go, the guy's a quack. So I want you to be that consultant. Behave like a consultant. And the first thing you need to do is get permission to ask a ton of questions. I really want to help see the world through your eyes. And it means I'm going to ask you a bunch of tough questions.

Are you going to be okay with that? Yeah. Well, people love to be interviewed, even if it's not on a podcast or whatever. People, it puts them in a much better posture and that's what's so great about it. And we have a thing that's Santa called the 70-30 rule. That means that the prospect needs to be talking 70% of the time, minimum, and you 30. And the only way you get the other guy talking is by asking questions. That's right. Good stuff. He is Antonio Garito. The book is Asking Questions, the Sandler way advanced questioning strategies for sales professionals. I wish I had his accent. If I did, I'd be. a huge deal. But unfortunately, I do not. But hey, thanks for hanging out with us. We appreciate it. We're enjoyed it. We're better for it. Big thanks to Antonio for hanging out with us. In studio here, spoke to our entire team, provided a ton of value to us. If you'd like to get Antonio's book, just click on his name in the show notes at entreleadership.com. Click on podcast. Coming up next week, always fun when I get to have some of my friends on. Really blessed to have

known Mark Miller with Chick-fil-A for over a decade. and we're going to give you just a sample of the conversation right now. Each of us as leaders have played the leader that saw the need. We've been the leader that was reluctant to change. We've been the leader who got caught in the transition and didn't know to move right or to move left. We're the leaders that struggle with various parts of the change initiative. So the story is our story. So there you go.

You know now that you've got a lot to look forward. to it's going to be a great episode. On behalf of Eric the producer, our engineers Will Rudder and Jim Bab and the entire Entree leadership team, thank you for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.