EntreLeadership - #245: 6 Stages of Self-Discovery with Ken Coleman

Episode Date: February 5, 2018

A self-proclaimed professional question asker, Ken Coleman—host of the EntreLeadership Podcast and The Ken Coleman Show on Sirius XM—has conducted hundreds of interviews and has concluded that most of us are in pursuit of the same thing: significance. Simply put, we all want to feel as if we matter, that our life has purpose. And helping you find your calling is something that Ken is downright passionate about. Tune in to walk through his six-stage method of getting to what he calls the “sweet spot”: a pursuit that combines your greatest talent with your greatest passion. Now that’s what we call a dream job. entreleadership.com/podcast   Free audio chapter from Ken's book: One Question 27 Email Templates from Infusionsoft Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message for Ken with the details. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Andre Leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by leaders, four leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Hey, this is crazy. Our feature interview, this episode is with me. That's right.

Daniel Tarty, our grand pooh-bah of all things, Entree Leadership. He has trained our awesome VP, Sarah Sloan, to take his role. But he jumped in the studio. They said, hey, we want the audience to hear more of your story. What's going on with the Ken Coleman Show? Why the Ken Coleman Show? Why do you love the Entree Leadership Program and doing interviews? That and so much more.

And it was great fun. I got to tell you, it really was great fun. So I am the guest. Can I just ask you? Don't turn off the show. Will you listen to it? I think it's going to challenge you. I think it will encourage you, and I'm pretty certain it will equip you.

Give me that opportunity. If you like the interviews, I think you'll be encouraged. I promise you that you will be. Two tools also coming to you. I'm very excited about these. And so let's get right to it. I'm not going to introduce myself. I'm not going to say anything great about myself.

I've already said that I think this will encourage your heart. So here is Daniel Tarty and me. Well, hey, guys, it's Daniel Tarty. and as Ken mentioned, we're kind of turning the tables today. This is a lot of fun. Normally, you're doing the interviews of our guests, but today you're the guest. It's fun.

Do you think we'll be able to pull this off? I do. Because you and I... Like midstream, you might start asking me questions. I might. Go back to the other role. But only if it is in response to your question. Okay.

Not just randomly going to ask you a question. No, you and I are good friends. Listeners and viewers may not know that you and I have become friends. Absolutely. And we enjoy each other's company. Our wives enjoy each other's company, and thus we have a good time as couples as we go out from time and time. I'm looking forward this because I want to brag on you for a moment. You're a good,

good leader, but I think you're an even better thinker. And I think because you're a great thinker, you're becoming a great leader. You're going to be a great leader. And I think it's because of how you think. And I don't think people know that about you, but you're a tremendous thinker. And I enjoy conversations with you because to me, conversation is a sport. So let's go. Let's go. Let's do it. See, I started to take over there. And I got close. I'll let you run for a little bit, but I'm coming back. So today is about Ken Coleman as the guest. And when I think about Ken Coleman, a lot of things come to mind.

Don't share them all. I can't share all of them. We couldn't air this thing if we did. But Ken is an incredible guy. I've known him for five years now. And as Ken said, we've gotten to become really good friends. You're a fighter. You're brave.

You're courageous. Your story of moving to Nashville to work with the Ramsey organization about five years ago now. to really kind of come in with, relative to your skill set, a fairly entry-level opportunity. I mean, it was fun and you were doing meaningful work. But given your ceiling, we all knew where we were bringing you in was just a starting point. And it's been really fun over the last several years to watch you do the grunt work, put in the reps, continue to polish. And then now just recently launching your own radio show, the Ken Coleman Show, one of our Ramsey personalities now. And man, you're in a zone right now, aren't you?

Yeah, it's fun. You know, it's exciting to be in a place that you have envisioned for a long time. And when you work hard and long for something, I think it's more rewarding than the quick success. I think we all selfishly want quick success. I'm the chief of that sin. However, sitting in this place right now, I can tell you that I appreciate it way more at 43 than I would have a 23. No doubt. Yeah. So I think one of the things that's true of your brand, it's your book, one question, and you You're interviewing people on the Entry Leadership podcast all the time. You're always asking questions. I think you just have this God-given curiosity. You genuinely want to learn. Another great trait of a leader. Great thinking. Great question asking, being curious.

But when did you first notice that was part of the Ken Coleman makeup? Yeah, I think probably as I remember in the fifth grade when I realized that there was a project that we had to do and I won't get in all that. But I turned my project into this big question-seeking project and I missed the whole. whole point of it. And when I turned it in, the teacher was impressed, and I ended up getting an okay grade, but I missed the entire point of the project. And I had always been that kid who wanted to know just a little bit more than everybody else. So whenever there was a group project at school, or when I was playing sports, I played sports every waking second of the day as a kid. And when I was being coached in camps or on teams, I was the guy that always stayed behind

practice and had about five, six, seven questions or in the middle of the drill, I was the guy that prolonged the drill because I wanted to know exactly how it was, what was expected and why. Were you the guy that everyone on your team was like going, shut up, man, we come on. Probably, probably, but to be honest. I remember being that guy. I think probably at times because I was so hyper-focused on making sure I understood what was expected. You wanted to get it right?

Yep. And I was a kid that wanted to know the why. Like, I would challenge the process early on. and even my parents, like when I would get punished, I was questioning their punishment. Is it the right level of punishment? Like that kind of thing, my mom will tell you stories like that. So every kid comes into the world hardwired to ask questions.

Any parent who's listening or watching right now knows that toddlers ask hundreds of questions a day, literally. In the book, one question I cite some research from the University of Michigan that we used to drive this importance of curiosity home. By the time we reached the eighth grade, the average American Daniels asking two to three. questions a day. That's not everybody, the average. But you juxtapose two to three questions a day as an eighth grader. With being a toddler, something has happened. And what has happened is life and our educational format in America. Certainly Western education is we're turning kids into answer givers, test takers instead of pathfinders. And I'm all about pathfinders. And the secret to finding your path is questions. The great businessman and women,

They're great coaches. Whoever it is, I don't care what industry, they are always learning. Yes. You cannot learn if you yourself are not the source of your questions. Yeah. But if somebody else is saying, hey, I think you should take this test. You're regurgitating. It's too much.

My questions come from me. Right. That's how I grow. You know what? I just thought of this. I wouldn't even think about it coming in here. But last night we were reading with the kids, my oldest Savannah, who's about to be nine, kept asking questions about what does that word mean, what is this? And at some point, she got self-conscious and she said, I'm sorry if I'm asking too many questions.

You came to mind. I've heard you talk about this before. And I stopped everything. And I took her sweet face and I said, baby, you can never ask too many questions. Don't ever let anybody tell you. Ever. And don't apologize for it because God gave you that curiosity for a reason, right? When I sign my books, I write Never Stop Asking and then my name. Yeah. Because what I care more about is if they read Never Stop Asking, not that I sign my book. I want them to to ponder that later when they're look at it. And I think that one of the things we do with our kids that I'm so glad you do with your daughter is we push them to ask this big question. So at bedtime, we'll say, everybody gets one question. I love that. And it can be about why do cows move or like, I just want to take the limits off of them because life is going to naturally pound the curiosity out of them. And I just believe that curiosity is the source of all growth.

Sure, especially for leaders, right? So everybody. We got everybody out there. We're saying you need to ask questions, have your kids ask questions, get your team to ask questions, but talk specifically to leaders who feel like they're in leadership, the spotlight's on them, and they should know a lot of the answers. And if they're exposed as not knowing the answers, there's some vulnerability there. And will people really follow me if I don't know? Of course, you and I know the best leaders are always asking questions, but speak to that leader who's maybe not sure. Yeah, if you're not sure and you're worried about, you know, and you've seen a pattern, maybe you've been in some meetings, or maybe there's some bigger philosophical questions that you know some leaders beside you or under you're

pushing you on and you're not there yet. First thing you've got to do is you've got to step into the confidence of the unknown. It's very, very easy to do this. But say that again, the confidence of the unknown. Of the unknown. First of, and what I mean by that is everybody, if I go down the list and the leader could do this. So just for a moment, if you're feeling this, think about all the people in your company and think about what they don't know and all the unknowns that they have. It changes the game. Then you go, wait a second. They don't. They don't. have all the answers. They're just looking to me for some guidance and leadership. It's not so much that they need the answer. They just want my leadership. So the confidence of the unknown is the

ability to look at them and go, I'm glad you asked that question. That's a great question. And quite frankly, I've thought about it and I haven't dove into the answer like I should or haven't thought about that. I don't know the answer to that. But let me tell you what I am going to know soon. I'm going to know the answer that. We're going to walk through that. That's the confidence the unknown. It's looking at them right in the eye and going, hey, I don't know the answer to that, but I'm going to tell you what, it's the right question. It's a question I need to ponder, and I'm going to go get it. And then we're going to discuss it, and then we're going to execute against it, and we're going to lead with it. Like, that's confidence.

Who is not going to go, man. See, here's what they're doing. When people ask you questions, you've got to remember, it's like your sweet little daughter. She wasn't just randomly letting her brain go schizo and think of anything she could think to ask a question. She really was trying to get to the bottom of something. And she was trying to connect, right? She wants to have that connection to what we're talking about. So when our followers ask us questions, remember first and foremost, they're probably truly just trying to get to the bottom of something.

And I've talked about this before. I think the number one question that all of our team are asking us is, are we there yet? Yeah. Like, I feel like I can break every question down that a leader gets and go, the question they're asking is, are we there yet? They're like the kid on the 12-hour ride to Disneyland, right? Every five minutes they're checking in, are we there yet? I've taught on this before. Are we there yet?

Here's what's going on. I screwed this up with my daughter once and crushed her spirit. And then I was begging for her to ask the question, and I couldn't wait for to ask it because I spent 45 minutes behind the wheel of car going, I broke her spirit because I just was like, Josie, we're not there. Play your game. When she asked me again, I went, no, that's clarity. This is leadership right here.

When they ask a question, are we there yet? You're going, you're going to give them clarity. So in this situation for Josie, it was no, we're not there yet, Josie. but we're getting closer. That's progress. They want clarity. They want to know we're making some progress and then recalibrate the vision.

So true. No, Josie, we're not there yet. We're getting closer. We're going to be there in six hours. So then when she asks me the next time, no, but we're getting closer, we'll be there four hours. Let me tell you something, folks.

You get that and figure that out? Yeah, for the whole team. For the whole team. That's what they need. Because they're asking, are we there yet, whether they're sitting in your office or not. So it's a little construct that constantly communicate to your team. Hey, guys, this is the vision we said at the start of 2018.

This is where we said we're going. We're not there yet. But we're getting closer. And we're going to get there in December of 2018. And if it changes, they're still okay with that. Yes, absolutely. Great leadership tips. And I want to shift gears into learning a little bit more about some of the stuff

you're talking about on the Ken Coleman show. Oh, it's fun. You're working with people all over the country talking to them about how to find their sweet spot in their career, they're calling, kind of where, what do I do with my life? How do I make my life have meaning? And I've gotten to listen to a few times. It's a lot of fun. It sounds like you're having a blast. Big fun. Real people who say, hey, I want to make a difference. Help me figure out where that is and how I get there. Yes. So the meaning that people find, you've found this. I've found this. It's a pretty rare and special thing to be in the sweet spot where you feel

like you're in your calling, your strengths, your opportunity, all this stuff is lining up. What are those crossroads that you would call when you say the sweet spot? What is that made up of? Well, let's first address the feeling. It's significance. This is the S word that everybody longs for. It's not dollar signs. It's not success. That's what we chase. At the end of the day, you can have tons of money and you can have tons of success, which would be notoriety, power, influence. But if you don't lay your head down at the end of the day and feel like you matter, that your life matters, you're making a difference that connects to your values. So we all have that. We all feel like this is what matters most to me. And if my work at my life is not seeing

results in the areas where it matters most to me, I'm feeling empty. So that's the feeling we long for, significance. We call it the sweet spot. This is an analogy given to me by my mentor when I was 25 years old and I could not get success fast enough and I life wasn't moving at my pace. It's like I deserve more success and he was like rest easy, chill out man. And he's like, this is what you need to be chasing because I was chasing title and money. And the sweet spot is the place where our greatest talent, those are our skills, what you do best. So it's where our greatest talent intersects with our greatest passion. This is what we love to do most. So what I do best, talent, what I love to do most, passion. And when those intersects, so this is what it looks like. So I get that, Ken,

everybody gets that. But what's it look like on a day-to-day basis? It is, I'm using my top skills to perform my great passion. The tools to do the work you love are your talents and skills. The creator of the universe gave those to you. He also hardwired you for the things that you love. I mean, you can't force a kid to love what they love. He can't force an adult to love what they love. There's a draw. So it's like, I can't help but do this. It's where you lose track of time. Now, there's a difference between what I would call professional passion and personal passion, meaning, well, there's a connection here, but what I mean is there's hobby-level passions.

So I'm passionate about the game of basketball. Love the game of basketball. I watch it with my son. I'm coaching a team right now of under 10-year-olds. I consume it. Love basketball. Love to play it when I was a kid. But at some point, I realized my talents weren't good enough for me to pursue it professionally.

So now basketball is what I would call a personal passion. It's a hobby. I enjoy it. But if I try to make a living, being a basketball player, I'm going to starve. But just a little twist in the sweet spot. So I'm a professional communicator. At the end of the day, my sweet spot is I use my talents of communication. That's speaking, listening, extrapolating thought, and simplifying it.

And then I love seeing companies and people maximize. their potential. That's my passion. It's my favorite movies, favorite books. That's all I read and consume are stories like that, biographies. Because there are people who started out, just like all of us, small, simple, but they stayed the course. They maximized their talent and their passion, and now we write about them. So that's my sweet spot. But here's the deal. Here's what's interesting. If I wasn't doing this, you would find me at a high school and I'd be coaching basketball, and I'd be making $60,000 and happy as a lark. Why? Because I would be using my skills of communication to teach those young men the game of basketball, but more importantly, life lessons.

So regardless of the arena, the sweet spot. The passion is in there, and that's the juice. Yeah, so there might be five, six, seven different careers that you can fulfill within your sweet spot. So how do you know if you're a business leader listening to this and you're kind of going, oh, am I, am I in my sweet spot? Or, you know, I think I am sometimes, but other times it doesn't feel like it. What are the signs of success that you've found? Yeah, I'm glad you addressed the question that way because it's not about a feeling. There are times when they're a great feeling. I'll address that in a second. There's some science behind this. But the construct of the sweet spot allows me to always get back to my why. This is why I was put on the planet to use these

talents to do this kind of work because it matters to me. The results matter. So that's always that North Star I get back to that. So if you're having some confusion, you have to look at what the source of the confusion is. Is it because you're spending a lot of time doing some things that you're not good at. So start looking at your day to day. If you're doing some things you're not very talented at, then you're frustrated, and that's clouding. And so your frustration is turning into a lack of belief, and you're, well, I'm not supposed to be doing this. I get a lot of callers who I find out that they're just doing the wrong thing. They're in the right place. Okay, let me challenge this, because a lot of business leaders, they start something. Their why is,

I want to change the world. I want to make a difference. The mission of their organization that they're the founder of, they're anchored into that in their heart. Sure. But then, they get into the business and it starts to consume them in ways that don't energize them. They look up in their day-to-day activities are actually sucking them dry. That's right. They're not in their sweet spot. So they're not in their sweet spot, even though they're the owner of the organization that it has the why. How do you reconcile those two worlds of? You just got to do what it takes to get the thing off the ground, knowing that ultimately the Y is there. But right now, I'm miserable because these activities are my...

And by the way, there's always, no matter where you're at, even if your sweet spot, there are things you're going to have to do where it's just not some of your strengths. You're going to make the bed. You're an adult. You're an adult. But what you're focusing on is, am I focusing most of my time? Am I doing what I have to do to do what I want to do? There are seasons of life where we've got to do what we have to do to do what we want to do. Wait, say that again. That's key. Yeah, it's from the great debaters, by the way. All right. Forrest Whitaker's character in that movie tells his son, he says, son, do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do. specifically the context was do the homework and the subject that you hate science and math this kid was a debater

all you want to do is focus on debate and he's like no you've got to do your homework you got to nail your studies before you get to go practice a right of passage you got to earn your stripes it's being an adult do what you have to do you want to i mean the last three and a half years i did a couple roles here which i won't get into that we're sucking me dry but wait a second was i in my sweet spot absolutely not the entree leadership podcast no not at all fact that's one of the let's be very clear doing interviews is one of my favorite things in the world. It's when I'm probably most visibly in my sweet spot, because I really, really enjoy that. Here's the point. There are times where you're doing things that aren't high on your passion list, but are you in the function of your sweet spot? Are you where

you're supposed to be? The answer is yes. So there are seasons where to get back to your specific question, because this requires a specific answer. If you're in a place or you're building a company, as Dave says, you're the chief everything officer, there are going to be days where you go home and you don't have anything in the tank and you're going, I'm burned out. I must not be doing the right thing. And if you called my show, we'd walk through this. And what we would find out is, hey, this is a season. Okay. This is a season where you have to do all these things. So what's the advice in that season? The advice is perseverance? No. Well, emotionally, yes, but we start with a plan right away to begin to extract and make the changes. Where do you need to sacrifice? Where do you need to reinvest some of the profits so that you can hire somebody to do the things that you're a no good at?

and that are sucking a life out of you. And so what happens is you get perspective. And you go, wait a second. I am supposed to be running this business. At the end of the day, these are my skill sets. So I'm in my sweet spot. But there are times where I've got to buckle down. And this is why the sweet spot is so powerful.

Because you remember your passion. You remember your why. And you're going, if I stay the course and I stay with this, there's coming a season where I'm going to get to do only what it is that I love to do. Wow. You do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do. Because here's the thing, Daniel, back to the Ken Coleman show where people call me. And we identify their sweet spot.

They're not there yet. So some of these people have to get out of debt. Yeah, for sure. Before they can go get the education, they need to get there. Are you willing to play it out for five to seven years? Let me be very clear. It took me seven and a half years to start doing full-time professional broadcasting from the time that I identified it. Seven and a half years because of life.

Because of life. And I got confused a little bit. I got stuck a little bit. You'll say that the sweet spot is more like a dial on your compass than the next door that you're necessarily going to open. It's something you're constantly kind of in that pursuit. Here's how I like this call up Mount Everest. Okay. And I love that imagery because you have it plastered all over the walls here at Entree leadership.

But picture your dream job or the place you want your company to be. That's it. Yeah. That's the peak. That's where you're going. Well, let's just play this analogy out. You don't just say, I want to scale, Mount Everest. No, sir. What do you have to do? First thing you have to do is you better go get some

training. You got to physically get ready for that. You got to have a plan. You got to have a guide, a plan. But once you physically get there and you pay that, you got to physically be able to get up there. So there's preparation. Then you're going to go hire a guide who's got a plan who's been up there before, right? They know what the path looks like. But there's going to be all these unknowns, and we've got some milestones and the weather might come our way. We might spend three days just hunker down. So those three days on Mount Everest could be three years in your business. The point is when we're scaling something that big, that worthwhile is going to take some time. And so just getting in the sweet spot is not like, no, this is just where I know I'm supposed to go now. So we call it

discovery. There's six stages. Discovery. That's really discovering your sweet spot. Where are my top talents and top passion intersect. And now that I know what that looks like and I know where I want to get to, what's the plan? How much training do I need? Do I need more education? Do I need to be mentored by somebody? Do I need to apprentice? Whatever it is. What's the plan? How much is it going to cost me financially and time? Those are the two big questions. How much money? How much time? Those are the two costs. And you've got to know that in the planning phase. Stage three is pursue. Once I know, I've got to step forward. It's not enough to know that I want to scale Mount Everest. It's not enough to do all the training. At some point, I got to zip up, latch on,

and go. And then as I'm pursuing, I'm going to begin to achieve. These are those milestones and goals. That's the fourth stage? Four stage. I'm pursuing. So discovery, planning, pursuing, achieving. And this is fun. As I begin to achieve, I'm receiving the benefits of those achievements. We, a lot of times in the business where we think, well, as I'm achieving success, then we've got more profits. That's real. That's an achievement. I'm getting more accolades. I'm getting more influence. I'm getting more whatever. So this is validation that you're on the, it's a You're getting traction, right? Yeah, it's just the old, you reap what you sow.

You reap what you sow. So that's what's happening there. So as you're achieving, you're receiving the benefits, but then it's all about what am I going to do with what I've been receiving? Because at the end of the day, my philosophy is we receive in order to give. So our talents and passions are not just for us. They're only for us in that we use them as blessings to others. That's the blessing of leadership.

You're paying it for it. That's exactly right. Paying it for it. So there you go. And so as you're receiving them. receiving, you're giving, and it's cyclical. Those last four stages. And then as I'm giving, of course, I'm constantly in pursuit, constantly in pursuit. I'm growing, pursuing. What's the next goal? What's the next mountain top? I'm pursuing. I'm achieving. I'm receiving. I'm giving. I'm

pursuing. I'm achieving. I'm receiving. I'm giving. So I love the model. Quickly again, the six stages. Discover. Discover. Plan. Okay. Pursue. Achieve, receive, give. So good. I think so. It worked for me. They're not my steps. I've put those words to them because that's what they mean to me. But this is not new, but this is what sustained success looks like. Okay, let's talk about this, because I think a typical listener is hearing this going, yes, I can see myself in one of those steps and I'm on my way. It just gives you such a sense of, I guess, traction when you realize, okay, I'm on step two, I'm on my way to six, or I'm on step five, and I'm excited that I'm at five and I'm still headed to six.

Talk to that leader, that guy or girl who is kind of thinking through this and going, Ken, I've spent the last 10 to 15 years of my life climbing this mountain. And it's becoming apparent to me that it's the wrong one. I've been climbing Mount Everest. I've put my heart and soul into this thing. But the why, back to the original thing we talked about, it's not there for me. I'm a dentist because my dad was a dentist. I inherited his practice.

And I got really good at being a dentist, but truthfully, I'm miserable. Yes. I get this all the time. You know, I'm close. I'm there. I make good money. and to disrupt everything at this point in life, you know, it's probably not worth going all the way back to the bottom of the mountain

and finding another one to climb. What do I do? Yeah, that's good. Well, the mountain analogy will run dry here for a moment, but I would tell you not to jump off the mountain. We want to figure out how we can kind of come down, get to the right place, and you can get down the mountain a lot faster most of the time

than you can get up. And so it's not about starting over. What it is about is do you want to finish your life with tremendous regret? or do you want to reminisce? And I'm going to tell you, I've got this romantic vision that when I take my last breath, everybody's gathered around grandkids, great grandkids, and whatever my goofy name is. And the only thing I'm doing is babbling in an almost euphoria.

As I know, I'm slipping into eternity. And I'm reminiscing. And I'm just talking about, but you remember this? Boy, that was good. And boy, that was crazy. And boy, that really paid off. And boy, that wrist turned out great.

Boy, that was crazy. It hurt so bad, but boy, it led to this. Like, do you want to reminisce or do you want to regret? I'm not trying to be so romantic here, but that's what it boils down to because this is the question that I'm going to confront you with on the show. Somebody calls in, goes, Ken, do I, I've been a dentist for 30 years, but what I really want to do is be a psychiatrist. I had that happen on a call recently.

So I asked the guy, he says, do I stay in this or do I? I said, well, that's so different. What's behind being a psychiatrist? He said, I had a really rough childhood and I want to help other kids. He had been abused. The guy broke. So out of great pain comes great passion. Now, that was the story there.

But when we asked the why, maybe for the first time. And in that scenario, you gave a lot of times we see that people made a decision to go into this business because either their parents were in it or they said it was a good career to go into. You had some aptitude. Sure. And so you went into it because you had the talent. But the why was never answered. It was never answered. or it was answered at the simplest level, which is, I'm good at it.

Talking about the meaning and the significance, and in this guy's case, he's redeeming something from his childhood. Yeah. Is that typically where the real why comes from? Like, you've got this pain or you've got some brokenness and you need to kind of make that ride and restore that. Yeah, it's either from pain or there's a personal experience of where you've seen a problem and you've interacted with that problem and it moved you. Like it moved you. That's where the real why it comes from. And by the way, that's what I do with callers when they call in.

I'm asking, well, why, what did you dream about? Why'd you dream about it? And then what we always see is a pattern. We always see a nice little easy pattern between talents and passions. So I don't like to do golf is the only thing that I like to do that I suck at. We've played together. And that's why I like it. But we laugh the whole time.

We laugh the whole time. We have a cigar on the back nine. And we were telling stories and we enjoy the outdoor. It's the whole thing. It's like, I'm not worried about my skill there. But the bottom line is, is that there is something that moves you. So here are the two clarifying questions I ask my callers on the Ken Coleman Show and they'll work for leaders. If you're trying to figure out, what's my why?

What's my purpose? Who do you most want to help? What problem do you most want to solve? Same exact question worded differently. it'll bring you to the same answer. Tremendously clarifying. Now, you're going to have to keep asking this. Some people get it right away.

Some people require me to kind of stay on them on the show, but then we get there. Always works. Who do you most want to help? Think of the people. And then when you get stuck for a minute, flip it real quick and go, what problem do I most want to solve? There's always a connection. And if you own the business, should that not be? Should be?

The business itself is doing those things? Yes. I mean, you're aligned as the owner with the mission. to be this great pain filled thing. It could be, hey, you know what? Let's take infusions off because I know those guys. Okay? They're part of our program.

We work with them. I've talked to the masks. I know what's going on behind there. Their why really is. They struggled with small business getting going and they were like, we figured it out. We wouldn't help other people. They get great juice off of that. They get juice off of somebody going,

Oh my gosh. Because they were their first customer. They were. Now, in that situation, I'm just bringing somebody to mind that our listeners may be familiar with. But that's real. Those guys are in their sweet spot. And here's what's great. The company itself is in the sweet spot. Because it's an extension of those values. Yeah. Well, they're using what they're good at. Those guys are good at technology and automation. They figure that out, right? And they're passionate about helping small businesses get more work done,

better, easier, faster. You pick the adjective. Am I right? Yeah. So my point is, it doesn't have to be from this great source of pain, but it always comes from passion. Something that gets you juiced. Passion. Right, right. What is passion? What is passion defined? Passion brings me joy. I like the word juice.

It fires me up. I'm going to go back to something I forgot to say earlier. It's very important. Mihai Cheeksint Mehi, Romanian psychologist, has done 25 years research on what I'm talking about in the sweet spot. He calls it flow. He's done the research. It's scientific.

When you are doing work in your sweets, spot, you experience what he calls flow. And it is a euphoric state. Yeah. And that's when we do something where the wife keeps calling and we don't even hear the phone or the day is over and you're like, where do the day go? And it's not because you're stressed out and been stuck in a problem. It's because you've been in your flow.

It's fun. And it is where, again, tremendous talent or aptitude. I feel like you're usually in flow when you're around me. I am. You give me great juice. Sometimes I'm going to say. Sometimes I hope to. Well, but see, that's first.

It goes both ways. But you can't bring it on somebody. The point is, is that right now I'm feeling flow. And they can tell. Why? Because I'm communicating real truth about something that I know is real and it works when you get it. And I know that people's light bulbs, if they dive into this, Daniel, it's like this. Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, and people walk. Their physiology changes. And they say, wait a second. I matter. And I've got what it takes. Now, I hope you guys are getting this. If you're not feeling that way consistently, you need to hear. Something's not right. It's an option to feel that way. There's people walking all over this organization that feel that way.

I feel that way. It's a mandate. And so if you're not doing that on a regular basis, it's time for a wake-up call, right? I mean, you got to check in. And here's the deal. Let's be really practical. I've got people that are calling me and that are business owners. Call me.

It's a simple phone call. Call the Ken Coleman Show. We'll talk. Here's a deal. We got comfortable to do that. send the email in. I'm passionate about Entree leadership. Just because I've got my show now, I'm not going anywhere, and I love this brand. Here, send your question. We start taking questions on the show. We'll run or the engineer. I'm looking at it right now. Send your question in. We'll take calls on the

show. Let's get to the bottom of this, because here's the deal. All I am is a sounding board. And all I do is use pinpointed questions, and I'll keep asking you, and I will get to the bottom. And we can't do this for ourselves, but I can do it for you. I can do it for them. And here's the deal. Make sure life is just too short. It's too short to live in a state of confusion, to live in a state of desperation, to live in a state of stuck, to live in a state of fear. Let me tell you something. Tremendous clarity on who you are and who you're supposed to be will breed tremendous confidence.

It is clarity first that will give you insatiable confidence, meaning you'll get confidence and then you just want more and more and more. And confidence breeds more clarity. and it's this awesome little thing. And I'm going to tell you something, the world's a better place if we have confident leaders. Well, I hope you guys will take Ken up and give him a call.

Email him on the Entree Leadership podcast, call him there or on the Ken Coleman show. Ken, before we close, as we're thinking about this idea of the sweet spot and people on our team, I believe one of the most significant things we do as leaders is we go first to do the hard things

that will help other people get the benefits of those things without having to work as hard on their own. We have to have the courage to step into hard places. And sometimes that's realizing we got somebody on our team that is not in their sweet spot, and we don't have a seat form that's in their sweet spot. How do I reconcile helping that person be who they need to be when they grow up and also realizing that's going to cost my business something because I've got talent that I'm going to have to replace?

And if I run everybody off, I've got to close up and I'm not at my sweet spot anymore, my business. How do you take all that and kind of make sense of it? Yeah, well, first of all, if you're feeling that way, that's fear and fear is not reasonable fear is silly. Think about the very first time we experienced fear. You called your mom and dad in and said, I think there's a monster under the bed. They got on their hands and knees. Turn the line. There's no monster. So that's silly. First of all, everybody's not going to just leave you. But if you begin to engage with your team on this very important issue, and let's go to Daniel's scenario. So you've got somebody who's got the talent to pull the job out and they're a high

producer. But you know deep down, this job is not their passion. I got a news flash for you. They're eventually going to leave you. Or if they stay a long time, they're not going to produce to the level of somebody that you could go out and hire. They're taking up a seat. They're taking up a seat. That's somebody, it is their passion. So it's scarcity thinking versus abundance. Yeah. And so I would say to you, don't be scared. Dive in because do you want somebody who wants that seat because they go, this is the seed I was born to sit in. Yeah. Is that what you want? Because by the way, that's not a fantasy. It's not a pipe dream. No. There are people all the way. So here's the deal. What I'd rather you do is begin to hire this way.

Whatever hiring processes you get into, by the way, coming soon. How do you hire for this? How do you find out this is this person's sweet spot? I have the opportunity. Do those line up? Ask them in the interview process. Have them come ahead of time and have them list out their top two or three talents. They can do five talents.

I don't care. But the ones they do better than any of that. So if they've got a bunch of talents, what are your top skills? And then I would ask them what work fires you up. What results? Yeah, talk about this. Skills. I'm really good at Excel, Microsoft Excel.

spreadsheets I can do, but it is not my sweet spot. It's not the thing I wanted to do. That's a talent. So if they say that's their top talent, they're really good with spreadsheets, I'm going to go a little deeper on that and go, what you're really good at is patterns and organization. Okay. Right? Anybody who's good at Excel is a good organizer and their brain thinks that way. So really get to the heart of their top skills. So this is actually really practical. Top three or four skills. Top three or four passions. Okay. This is what you love to do most. Press them on this. Well, I love to work with kids. What specifically do you like to do with kids? Do you want to teach them? Do you like taking care of them when they're sick? You see what I'm saying?

Press them on this. Now, this is great. This is where references could really come in. Have them list off their top talents and top passions, then call their references and see how well their references know them. And if they know them well enough, verify it. Make sure that they're not lying. Not to you on purpose, but are they lying to themselves? We want people who are steeped in reality. So that's how you hire for it. So then what happens is if they want this position, you go, So, you know, there's this analogy called the sweet spot, and I'm seeing that you've got the talent to pull this position off. Here's my concern. When you told me what you're most passionate about, there's a disconnect. Because this work right here looks like this every day, and it produces this result.

That's how you use it. And here's what happens. You might find an incredible person for a position that you need to fill. And back to your question a couple of minutes ago, what if the person you're hiring actually fits in the seat of the person, you can start moving some people around. round. It's not one of these things where you start really thinking about this as a leader and then woe is me. Everybody gets up and leaves. That's ridiculous. First of all, they need their job.

Yeah. This is America. Like, people are in debt. They're not going to leave on the same day, at least, right? I mean, over time, you want people. It's just scarcity thinking, but don't come at it as this glaring light. Okay. I'm going to give you a torch to walk through life, not I'm shining this gigantic airport spotlight on you.

There's a difference. There's a difference in how you use this. This is good. I hope you guys are getting this. As we wrap, Ken, I want to tell you, I'm so grateful that you have carried the banner as the host of the Entree Leadership Podcasts on these years. I mean, you have taken it from a good product, a good podcast, to a premier top ranking, some of the greatest guests and greatest minds in the world that you've brought on and extracted their wisdom and then also curated and added your own content. And it's just so fun to listen to. I love listening to our podcast because you bring it every time. You're clearly in your sweet spot. I got to thank the team, though.

I mean, I don't get those guests, you know, so I couldn't do it without that team. I get to sit there and honestly steal from Ontario leadership and getting paid to have conversations. It really has been a tremendous joy, and I'm not going anywhere. Because it's one of the ways that I learn. We love it. Thank you. I appreciate you.

Thank you. The Ken Coleman show, if you guys haven't heard it, be sure to check it out. It's a great companion to Entree leadership. And then how can they find out about it? I mean, obviously, you guys are podcasting that as well, yes? Yeah, it's on Sirius X-XM. So if you have Sirius XM, Channel 132, every day leading in the Day Ramsey show, around 2 o'clock Eastern. And then if you don't have Sirius XM, obviously wherever you can get a podcast, iTunes, Google Play.

It's a daily podcast because it's a daily show. And again, the focus is we're helping people discover what they were born to do and how to make that a reality. But again, I'm getting a lot of business calls. But we're starting to open up the phone lines here in Entree leadership. And I can't give you all the answers necessarily from the Entree playbook because I'm still learning and growing all that. But if it's a question about, hey, team, and am I in the right place and you're really doubting yourself? Come on. Those are my favorite calls because we will help you get clarity.

Well, I hope you guys take them up on that. It's a great show. Be sure to check it out. And, Kim, before we close, any final thoughts or words of encouragement to our listeners? Yeah, you know, I close every show with two little phrases. You matter and you've got what it takes. And when I wrote that, it was something that I wrestled with. I really wanted to end every show with something that I felt was core to what I believe about people.

And so that's very, very personal. And here's what I know. We know this from psychology. We just know this from sociology that every human being, you men, you women that are watching and are listening, you're still that little boy. You're still that little girl who wanted mom and dad to say, you matter. You've got what it takes. And I want you to hear that, but I want you to hear it maybe differently than you ever heard it before.

When I say that you matter, the God of the universe created you and your role as a leader, your business matters, you're helping real people, you're providing real solutions. And then the second thing I want you to hear differently maybe than you ever heard before is you do have what it takes. You may not be there yet, but you can learn. You can grow. And most importantly, you can stay in the game. Yes. Stay in the game. That's what I would say.

Well, our guest today has been the host of the Entry Leadership podcast, Ken Coleman. fantastic conversation. Thank you so much. And as you guys know, we open every podcast with the line. We're helping business owners grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. What you may not hear is so that you can give. You're being blessed to be a blessing. And we want your profits to grow so that you can have a great life for you and your family, but also so you can give to your community, give to your team members, make a difference

because, as Ken is saying, what you're doing really matters. We believe that here at Entree Leadership, and we'll see you next time. Well, that was really fun. Enjoy listening back to that. Hey, real quick, if you are somebody that is stuck, if you're confused, you're scared, feeling alone, you just need some help with direction on what it is you were created to do and how to make that a reality. Give us a shout. The Ken Coleman Show is available to you on podcast, as we have said, on SiriusXM Channel 132. Ken Coleman Show.com is the website. The phone number is on there. 844, 7.5.com. 7472727. The email ask at Ken Coleman Show.com. Just send us an email or leave us a voicemail. We'll get you on the show. Well, I'm also excited about giving you something free that is very personal to me, and that is the audio chapter number 12 of my book, One Question. Of course, we took the book, one question, and turned into an audio book. And this particular book features my One Question with Jim Collins. And this is going to hit a lot of you right in the heart. The question was, Why do we go for greatness personally in our lives? We want to buy a great ticket to a great concert or go on a great vacation or go to a great restaurant. But why is it that we don't go after personal greatness? And he talks about the thing that we're more scared of than anything else.

Not risk. It's something else. I'm going to tease that and leave that there. The audio chapter is absolutely free. You get to hear myself, Jim Collins, talking on this issue. So get it by texting Coleman to 3-3-44-4. that's Coleman, C-O-L-E-M-A-N to 33-444, or you can get the link in the episode show notes

at entreleadership.com, episode 245. Hey, while we're talking about free stuff, Infusionsoft, bringing you templates for the taking. 27 email templates you can use right now. Are you kidding me? Like, 20 would be great. They just threw another seven in there because Infusionsoft is so awesome.

27 email templates you can use. So this is great. Think about this for a second. Have you ever struggled with writer's block, even on emails? Let me think about it. We're sending hundreds and hundreds of emails out over the course of a week. Some of you people are in the thousands. Good grief. It makes my head hurt thinking about it. And it is many times the primary form of contact between you and your most vital communication. That is your customers. So infuse yourself here to help. Common email blast, email templates for sales, thank you emails, re-engagement campaigns, and so much more.

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I'm not going to thank myself for being on, but I am going to thank Daniel Tarty for the opportunity to share my heart and my head with you amazing people. And I, you know, I want to tell you, I really have appreciated knowing this audience and serving this audience. I'm not going anywhere. I love to have someone to join me over at the Ken Coleman Show. But I love the Entree Leadership program.

On behalf of Will the producer, our engineer Jim Bab and the entire Entree leadership team, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.