EntreLeadership - #254: The Power of Curiosity with Chalene Johnson

Episode Date: March 19, 2018

If you use social media to market your business (and really, who doesn’t?), lifestyle and business expert Chalene Johnson says the best way to build your tribe is through something she calls “curiosity marketing.” The goal is to first position yourself as a trusted friend and give your customers just enough information to pique their interest and get them asking questions. That curiosity allows you to engage your customers in an authentic conversation, which then helps create a relationship that, with any luck, leads to a sale. Tune in to find out Chalene’s three golden rules of doing it well. Also joining us are Revelation Real Estate owners Chuck and Angela Fazio, who credit the EntreLeadership Master Series for helping them completely transform their culture and reach $1.4 billion in sales. entreleadership.com/podcast The Ultimate EntreLeadership Reading Guide from EntreLeadership 2018 Small Business Marketing Trends Report from Infusionsoft Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Andre Leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders by leaders for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. We focus on marketing again this episode. Our feature conversation is with Shalene Johnson, who is a best-selling author, lifestyle expert and super entrepreneur.

We also take you into a fun conversation with Chuck and Angela Fasio. They are alumni, very successful alumni of our Entree Leadership Master's series. You'll enjoy them. And of course, you've come to expect it, and you should. Great resources from the Entree Leadership team and InfusionSoft. Hey, before we get to the conversation with Shalene, I want some feedback from you. We've been talking a lot about marketing, and there's a reason because it matters. Now, some of you are in a very small business, so you're having to be that chief everything

officer, and sometimes you push marketing aside because there seems to be more important things. Here's the reality. There's nothing more important than marketing. You've got to tell the story. You've got to be banging the drum. And so we want to hear from you. How many of you out there have had some recent marketing wins? Something you did intentionally, and it worked.

we would love to brag on you. So here's how we can do that. You've got a call in. 844-944-1070. That's 844-944-1070. And leave your voicemail. Tell us your win. You can also tag us on social media at Ken Coleman and at Entree leadership if you want to share your win on social media.

So share so we can brag on you. And remember, this isn't just a brag session. others will not only be encouraged but also equipped, they might be able to translate something that you've done that was a win for you and make it a win for them. So we want your feedback again. That's 844-944-1070. Leave a voicemail that we'll get back with you.

All right, we keep rolling along. Shalene Johnson is our feature conversation this episode. As I mentioned at the top of the show, she's the best-selling author of Push. She has been named one of the top 50 female entrepreneurs in America She has won big on QVC, has multiple top-ranked podcasts, and on and on it goes. While she's in the self-help business, she understands how to market. And specifically, she's carved out a niche on how she markets.

She calls it Curiosity Marketing. Listen in as I have a conversation about curiosity marketing with Shalene Johnson. Well, Shalene, this is really, really fun to have you with us. Love your work and Entree Leadership. We not only know who you are, but really value the content you put out. So this is going to be great for our audience. And we're going to talk about curiosity marketing. I thought this was really neat as I was doing some prep for our conversation.

So I want to tee you up to define what is curiosity marketing. What does it look like and how does it engage? Curiosity marketing. It's a trend that's really leveling the playing field, I think, for a lot of people who in the past believe that they need to build a huge platform in order to build a bigger business. Curiosity marketing is, it's more natural. It's more authentic. And it's where we're moving towards in terms of social media marketing.

And it creates a conversation. If I were to summarize my definition of curiosity marketing, it is, it creates an authentic conversation. And I love it because I think curiosity is such. a disarming a way to get people to lean in. And to that end, you say that we should not be tipping our customers or followers off to the fact that we're about to sell. Why? And then a follow-up, how do we make sure that we don't tip them off? Well, we all have this radar for sales. It's happened when you've answered the door on a Sunday afternoon and there's a kid standing there with a stack of

magazines, your warning signs, the bells go off. You're like, oh, I'm about to get sold. No matter how cute the kid is, when we walk into a car dealership, even though we need a new vehicle, we're already on guard because we don't want to be sold. When we know someone is in the business of selling, it makes us defensive, it makes us leery, it makes us untrusting. So it's not a great way to start off the relationship. We oftentimes think that what we're doing is branding ourselves, when as business owners, what we're doing is broadcasting to the world, I intend to sell you something. And that just automatically puts people on the defensive. And it puts them in a position where they just, they don't even want to trust you.

They already don't trust you because they believe you are a salesperson versus someone who's serving. And then you say this. This is so good. Curiosity, it's low when we know nothing. It's high when we know something. Obviously, it's non-existent when we think we know everything. back to the it's high when we know something. So in engaging in this curiosity marketing, how and when do we choose to share information so that our audience goes, okay, I know something,

but I want to know more. It's essentially trying to give them crumbs. Is it not? Absolutely. I say it's better to drip out information. So at least I'm curious as opposed to flooding the market or firehosing information at people. I'll share with you an example I saw recently. In my business, I help a lot of entrepreneurs, many of whom also happened to be in network marketing. And recently, I was following a person who's in network marketing and they did this social media post all about their latest company offering. It was a workout program. And under the post, they explained how much the program was, how to get started, what they could expect about the program. Every detail you could possibly need.

with that being a one-way conversation. And under this post, the Gallup posted a photo of herself, and it was like, you know, kind of a fitness photo. And under the photo, there were probably 40 or 50 people asking questions, and they were all about her outfit. And I thought, well, that's because she didn't say anything about the outfit. So how might she be able to reframe that? I think it would be to start a conversation. And I would say, first of all, I try to give people as much information as possible if those are things I don't want them to be curious about. In other words, she doesn't want them to be curious about the fact that her shoes are Nike's, let's say.

So she's going to say, I'm wearing my new Nike shoes and I'm wearing this new fitness workout outfit that I would have never had the confidence to post a photo of myself in it in the past. had I not finished this really incredible exercise program that took me the last 30 days to transform my body. Okay, now, now I don't have any questions about her outfit, but I've got a lot of questions about this program. Yeah. I love that. And I want you to talk about identifying the problem the right way because you kind of touched on it. You kind of touched on that example on a solution. You know, she had a solution to body change. but when we're out there trying to get noticed in a very noisy world, the idea of identifying a problem that may not hit everybody, Shaline, but it's going to hit enough people where they go, yep, I see that as a problem. And if you're telling me there's a solution, I don't even have to know what the solution is. I'm game. Yeah. And again, I think we are best, if we're truly serving people, which I don't think very many people would say, I love selling.

And if they do, what they really often mean is I just love helping people. And if I'm really passionate about something, I will push it on people because I know it's going to help them. But not many people like to sell, especially something that they don't believe in. And if we're truly serving, we have to be listening. And even when I see business owners talking about the features and the benefits of their course or their program, their product, I think it's important rather to flood somebody with all of those things, to listen and figure out what is their problem. A great example of this is my husband and I. I have to go back to the car example, but when we were shopping for vehicles, we'd walk into the showroom and I'm the car girl.

Like I have already done my research. I know about the engine size, the warranty, what rim package I can choose from. I know all of that. But when we would go shopping for a vehicle with my husband, inevitably the salesman would approach my husband and speak directly to him and kind of flood him with information that I knew my husband could care less about. His problem to be solved was cup holders. How big. He literally wanted to get a new car because he hated his cup holders. And now, so this salesman could have, like, it could have been a lay down sale if he just said, you know, so why are you looking for a new car?

you know, what specifically is important to you rather than just flooding us with features and benefits. So I think one of the easiest ways to do that is in the process also build a relationship. We can do this in social media. In fact, the biggest social media platforms, they want us to do that. And the algorithms have shifted in January 2018, Facebook, who is often quite quiet about algorithm changes came out and made a very public statement via Mark Zuckerberg that they were going to stop showing content of businesses and brands in the news feed. Instead, they want people on Facebook to know they can expect to see content that is, quote, engaging and starts conversations from our true friends and acquaintances. So what does that mean for brands and businesses? Does that

mean, well, it could mean that they're expecting us to pay for advertising. But the work around, the way that you take advantage of that situation is stop being a brand in a business and start being seen as an acquaintance, a friend to your customers. Start creating content that engages them, that has them be an active part of a, as they said, quote, a lively conversation. That's good. What would you say are a couple of things that a small business owner, if they're listening, and you're going, okay, I'm tracking with you, Shalene, but I'm not, I'm not active or I'm not active enough or I'm certainly not trying to promote curiosity with my audience on social media, specifically. How do you start some curiosity marketing, just in little bits and pieces?

I would say you just have to start. And the great thing about this is anything you're not comfortable with or you don't like the way it came out, you delete it. It doesn't live on forever and ever. You can delete it from your Instagram feed. You can record it on Snapchat, Instagram story, Facebook Live, whatever. And you can delete it if you aren't comfortable with it, but you're never going to get good at it until you practice more. And practicing more means you've got to start. You've got to enjoy the process. And I always recommend that people just document your day. You know, not your entire day, but if it peaks a little bit of interest in your mind, if you think to yourself, this is something I tell my husband that this

just happened or I bet if I were to walk back into the office and tell the people who work in my department what just happened to me at lunch, they're going to find this interesting. Well, so too are the people on your social media feed. And you might think to yourself, but that doesn't have anything to do with my business. That's the point. We need to like you and trust you and know you before we're going to do business with you anyways. So let us get a sense of who you are.

I have to ask you because if anybody knows anything about you, your career continues to evolve and expand, but the reality is you have been a wild success in fitness videos. And so I want to streamline the example of curiosity marketing by taking it to that. So the world is saturated with fitness plans, fitness videos. and, you know, how do you stand out? What do you think as a relation to curiosity marketing that you and your team did well to stand out to become such a force?

First, I have to say, like probably most people who are listening, you just don't feel like you deserve to even call yourself an expert in an industry when there's so many far more educated, more experienced people than you. And I feel that same way about my role. in the fitness industry. I didn't study fitness. I wasn't incredibly passionate about exercise. I just found a way to make it really fun and effective for me. And then I just wanted to tell

everybody about it. But even when I first started doing that, I thought, I don't belong here. I don't look like these ladies. I, you know, these women, you can see, their spleens. They're so lean. I like food. You know, I don't want to spend five hours in the gym. Like, what am I doing here? I don't belong here. But I just was authentic and real. And that's what helped me stand out initially, but I want to share with you an example that is curiosity marketing, and that is one of the things I tell people when it comes to curiosity marketing is don't copy the words, actually the sales copy, or even the verbiage you're seeing under your competitors posts, because those aren't your words. And when we share words and we copy words,

it's not authentic. When my last infomercial pio, when we first released it on air, you know, we spent, had a huge marketing budget, spent over a million dollars on production, hired copywriters, and they tried to write in my voice. And then I stood in front of a teleprompter, and I read their words as casually as possible. And we tested it for over a year. And we just basically flatlined the company that I partnered with Beachbody came to me. And they said, you know, we've tried. And unfortunately, you know, we just want to let you know we gave it our best ditch effort. And I said, listen, can I test something? can I just open up my iPhone and point it at myself and let me just say what I want to say.

I know nothing is more attractive than energy. And if you get me talking about this program, Pio, if you get me talking about this, you're going to see a girl on fire and I'm going to talk to her, the consumer. I'm going to talk to her the way I talk to my girlfriend. And let's have it be unproduced and not so polished and, you know, no makeup or hair people on set. Let me just open up my freaking phone with my dog in the background and my kids making noise. And let me tell you why this works. And so I shot the entire thing on my iPhone with the wrong camera settings.

I wasn't even on 4K. So it's grainy and it's horrible. And it was the number, I was the number one infomercial, all categories in 2017. And also voted the number one infomercial host in 2017, which I think is hysterical because it literally there was, it drives me crazy when we do these things and we overproduce them and we overthink them. them when you know what people desire today real. They want authentic. They don't want you scripted because our BS meter is so sensitive. We're looking for BS.

And so the more real you can be, I mean, what's easier than being real, right? But the more real you can be today, the bigger you'll win. You know what? I'm sitting there listening, Shalene, and I wrote this down. I absolutely agree with you. But I think there's one other thing that you demonstrated in that video and in that story that again creates curiosity. A little bit of a wrinkle on this.

And you can call me out if you don't agree, but I think this is really good. Okay. You know what else people want Shalene Day? They want what we have. You know, you remember the famous scene from Sleepless in Seattle? I'll have what she's having. I mean, at the end of the day,

we want what other people have if we see that, man, they're enthusiastic or their passion or they're having the time of their lives. Am I right about that? You are right. And so they're watching that video. And they're going, yeah, I want that. I want what she has. I don't even know what it is, but I want it.

Yeah. And I can't give you that energy if I'm using someone else's script. That's right. And that's real passion. You know, and I think we fear in business that, oh, I got to get this right. So I'm going to watch what my competitor's doing. I'm going to watch what the guy who's slightly above me is doing. And I'm going to copy that a little bit.

But we get ourselves in trouble if we do that too much because it feels inauthentic. like just blaze a trail. And the more real you are, the more natural it comes across. And the easier it is for you to connect with people. And today in social media, I mean, this is where we build our businesses. This is unbelievable time in our history of business building where you don't have to have a business plan and go to the bank and review your projections. You can come up with an idea. You can start a website this afternoon. And you can go on Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg will let you run a free infomercial live from his platform. Like, this is insane.

So don't overthink it. Like we crave real, we want real. And you've got to talk to people in order to know where they're at. That's good. That's really, really good. I want to have you challenge our audience. If they're sitting here listening to this and they're going, okay, for whatever reason. myriad of reasons that they have yet to jump into this and say, you know what, I'm just going to

get out there on these social media platforms, and I'm just going to start doing real talk. There's going to be some fear, Shalene, you know this. There's just going to be some fear. And you kind of touched on this earlier. But I want you to speak to the fear of stepping out and just being real and authentic and sharing your voice, sharing your passion for your product or your service. What would you tell them when they face that fear? Oh, so glad you asked this, because it's actionable. I say likes wear thin questions for the win. So I would challenge everyone who's listening to create a post this week, whether it's going live or an Instagram story or a static post even on one of these platforms.

And I would tell you to ignore the likes and really think about content creation from the standpoint of how many questions, how many questions. How many questions can I get from this post? Not just engagement, because a lot of times, you know, you do these things I think are trickery, where it's like, give me a thumbs up if you agree. Well, yeah, I guess that's engagement. But you're not learning anything. It's not a conversation. And I suppose it's engagement if you ask your followers, tell me what you think about my latest podcast.

I suppose that's engagement. But it's not a two-way conversation. So I would challenge everyone to create a piece of your next piece of, of content and measure its success based on how many follow-up questions and conversations you can create under that poster, in that post. Now, that is good. Say that again. Say that again.

That's really good. This is just how I memorize these things for myself. I say likes wear thin. You know, likes don't buy anything. Likes wear thin, questions for the win. You know, you're not going to pay the rent or move product or. or connect with customers simply based on likes. What we need is a relationship,

and relationships start with communication. And so if you start the conversation by getting them to ask you a question, now we have a relationship. Track your questions, not your likes, not your new followers. You don't need a bazillion followers to do this. You want to create a more intimate, connected reaction with your customers.

That's right. I'm reminded of what Kevin Kelly of Wired Magazine fame, one of the most brilliant thinkers out there, and Seth Godin wrote about this, but Kevin Kelly had suggested, I think he's right, that all you need to win in any business is 1,000 true fans. And I think that, Shalene, you have laid that out.

Curiosity is huge. We started the conversation by talking about curiosity marketing. We wrap with that amazing challenge and a very practical one for you folks this week on social media. Questions for the win, four powerful words. I told you it was going to be good, people. I knew it was going to be good. Shaline, thank you.

I know you got a lot going on, and your time is so valuable, but we appreciate you hanging out with us. We're better for it. It's my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. Hope you enjoyed Shalene Johnson. What a force of nature. She is.

Great energy. And I really enjoyed that. Hope you did as well. Well, it's time again to tell you about a great free resource from the Entree Leadership Team. We call it the Ultimate Entree Leadership Reading Guide. This is 50 books that we believe you should read. We selected 50 books and broke them into nine different categories, biographies, company

culture, leadership, marketing, money, personal development, productivity, relationships, and sales. That's comprehensive. But here's what we want to do. This is fun. We want to hear from you. So if you finish the first one and your mind is blown and you're halfway through the first one, you can't go to sleep.

Well, head on down to the old laptop. Podcast at entreleadership.com. Shoot us an email. Tell us what you're learning. What did you take away? We love takeaways. So, podcast at entreleadership.com. All right, Ken, we'll do that.

How do I get the 50 books? It's a very good question. You text 50 books. That's the number and then the word. No space. So 5.0 books. 5.0. B.

O-O-K-S, text that to 33-444. That's 33-444. Or you can get the link in the show notes at entreleadership.com. Click on podcast and this episode. Oh, this is fun. I always love when we have our live events, certainly here in Nashville, and we have some of our attendees stop by the old studio

to share what they're doing, how they're winning. Because that's what this is all about. It's not about pat ourselves on the back. It's about celebrating the wins of real men and women who are killing it in the business space. Chuck and Angela Fasio certainly embody that. They're the co-CEOs of Revelation Real Estate. They are the number one real estate company in the East Valley area of Phoenix. They're in the top 1% of realtors in America.

And Phoenix Business Journal has listed them multiple times as top 50 real estate agents. Now, they've been coming to our Entree Master series. a couple times. And since attending in 2016, they've had some real growth, approximately 500 agents to almost 800 agents, and seeing almost double growth in closing revenue from $900 million to over $1.4 billion. So we had them in the studio, and I asked them, what did you take away and what did you do? You're going to love this. Well, this is fun hanging out with Chuck and Angela Fosio, to, how many times you've been to an EMS? Is this your second? It's our second time. Second time.

So alumni and we just wrapped up a great week here. And I wanted to have you both in because what I love is you're killing it in your business. But when we asked you to share with us offline, you know, what did you take away from the last master series? And then how did you implement it? You both had different answers. And I love that because I think that's really, really neat when a leader looks at their individuality and you guys are co-owning this business. So we'll start with you ladies first, Angela. What was the big takeaway? And then how did you implement it? Well, the best thing that we learned for me was the concept of the donkeys and thoroughbreds. The first thing we did when we got back after we debriefed a little bit was to have a meeting

with our staff. And we introduced that very simple concept. And we got immediate reactions. Three people immediately started he-hawing. Oh, really? Yes, right there in the meeting, actually. Like as in identifying themselves as donkeys? Yes, yes. We did a couple of things. We described the difference between a donkey and a thoroughbred, and we said it's our intention to have all thoroughbreds.

And the second thing we did, which was something that both Chuck and I loved, was that change. So we described what that means and how we were going to implement that within our business. And right after that meeting, three people identified themselves. We actually looked on one of the video cameras in their office. and the three donkeys were in their stable, all going like this, making fun of the concept, making fun of it. It was really easy. It was really easy. That was immediate. Thank you, Dave. Oh, wow. So what'd you do? Well, we had a conversation, and two of them immediately said, we don't want to go through this. And then one took a couple

weeks. One got fired on the spot. Yeah, one got fired on the spot just because she wouldn't even consider having the conversation. She completely didn't. And there probably was a range of emotions with both of you, right, from anger to you felt disrespected, no? I was a little aggravated. I'll be honest, but we were thrilled because it was such an eye-opening concept to say, there are people, and they're distinctive. And they didn't want to move from donkey to thoroughbred. I mean, you took one of Dave's concept, and it just magnified itself to make it so clear.

So it was actually like, wow, that really was great. That was what I was wondering. If you went from how disrespectful and angry maybe that you felt, too, this feels great. This is awesome. We're free of some good weight. I think I either called Tara or Olivia immediately just to let them know what happened. I love that. All right, so we're going to switch over to you, Chuck.

And so what did you take away? And how did you implement it? Well, I really pulled out the culture part. It's either you create or tolerate. And I said, you know what? We're going to create because the tolerating part is what you see in most businesses. And when I pulled away from what Dave said and the entree leadership was especially the gossiping. and how toxic that is.

And it's so acceptable in culture today that people don't even realize it's even called gossiping anymore. So as soon as we started to implement that and implementing a culture of like-minded professionals is all of a sudden when we seen people that was like they were our cheerleaders to create that culture, it was almost like they wait for you to do that.

And it took us to come through an entree leadership to realize that we did. need to stand for that to create that culture. What was across the board, if you were to kind of rate maybe pockets of response to this no gossip policy and you saying, hey, we're not going to put up with this, what was the response like in your world? The response that stands out to me is 100%, obviously the ones to your face. But what happens is, is you watch the donkeys, weed themselves out. It was like they were just marched right on out. And it's because we put our foot down to say, this is the culture we want. We're not going to talk. We're not going to talk.

tolerate. And it's going through the entree leadership that really, you know, we've never taught how to be leaders. And when we sat and listened to this and implement it, like, this stuff works. You know why we came the first time? No. Because I heard it on your podcast. Oh, really? And I asked for it for my birthday. Oh, that's cool. And I basically said, all right, I'll go to another one of these things. You don't really get much out of them. And I'm going, I'm going, this is unbelievable. That's cool. We had massive. results. Well, I love this because you're a podcast list or now you're a podcast guest. It's awesome. So this is cool. And that's exactly what we wanted to do. And I think it's very

important here to point out to those of you that are listening and watching that, you know, this is not about having Chuck and Angela say all these great things about us. It's we want to know what you're applying. We know this stuff works because this is what we do here. So it's not about, you know, verifying if it works. It's about lifting people like you. And you guys are killing it. One last question for both of, you can both answer this as you made. And again, I know you've made several changes, but these are just a couple that we outlined very quickly. When you made these culture changes and these donkeys left, I just want you to share with those people that are listening and watching that are a little bit afraid of taking a stand and kind of making some changes. What was it like for the people who stayed behind who said, hey, we're all in and they were your good thoroughbreds or they were the people who were cool with the culture changes and saying, rock on,

Chuck Will Folly, Angela, yes, you're right. What did it do for them to see the changes? I have a couple things. Go ahead. You get out. First, we first. Yes, sir. Thank you. First, I want you to know that we did more than just talk about it.

We brought the staff through our team through the videos. We started, we read QBQ, we read The Renoceros book, and we read Who Moved My Cheese, and we read so many books together, Ideal Team Player. We talked about them at length. and they were so into it. It was hard to pick who came back this second time. It was hard to pick, and we promised to the others who couldn't that they could come back at a later time.

They were just so excited by the concepts of learning and growing and being led and being leaders themselves, some of them. It was infectious. Yeah. You know, and I always say proof is in the numbers. You know, anybody could talk a good game. At that time, we just broke ground on our 21,000-square-foot, state-of-the-yard building.

which is incredible. So as it opened up and we started implementing these in there in the U.S., well, what results did we get off of it? We took our aging count up to almost 800 agents. We went from when we were in the last, about 800 million sold to do with $1.4 billion in sales and a culture that we are attracting the best of the best. So that right there just shows there's a hunger for,

for this type of change. We want to be a light in a dark world, and that's what we do. Well, that's exactly what you guys do, and it's what you're doing. And this is so cool. Thanks for hanging out with us. I know you've been in a deluge of content all week, and thanks for hanging out with us. They are Chuck and Angela Fosio, Revelation Real Estate. So if you're anywhere in the Phoenix area, they're at the very top of the best, of the best, great people.

They are entree leaders. So, hey, if you're out there and you're looking to buy something, don't go to anybody else. Thank you so much. Thank you. Big thanks to the Fasias for sharing their story. By the way, if you want to know if you should come to an entree leadership event, go ahead and rewind that one more time and then re-ask yourself that question. Hey, our friends at InfusionSoft help us do what we do.

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Go get it, study it, implement it, win with it. Wow, that was chalk full of goodness. Hope you enjoyed it as much as we did in putting it together for you. On behalf of Will the producer, Jim the engineer, and the entire Entree leadership team, thank you for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon. Hey, folks, I want to make you aware that we have other great podcasts from Ramsey Solutions. Here's a sample of Christy Wright's Business Boutique podcast. Hey, I'm Christy Wright, and I help women all over the country take their ideas and passions and hobbies

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