EntreLeadership - #268: Wisdom for Your WorkLife with Adam Grant

Episode Date: May 28, 2018

Psychologist and New York Timesbest-selling author Adam Grant has spent his career studying ways to find more motivation and meaning in life, and he says a great place to start is by looking for purpose at work. Now depending on how you feel about your job, that may be easier said than done, but Adam insists that any one of us can create the job we want. Join us as he details ways to find more fulfillment and satisfaction at work, as well as how to navigate the ever-elusive idea of work/life balance. entreleadership.com/podcast 43 Ways to Recognize Your Team from EntreLeadership Personalized Growth Planner from Infusionsoft EntreLeadership Summit 2019 Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Andre Leadership. Now, here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Can't wait to dive in today. Our future conversation is with Adam Grant, multi, New York Times, bestselling author. I think one of the great thinkers in America today.

his latest book is Option B, Facing Adversity, Building Resilience, and Finding Joy. He co-wrote that with Cheryl Sandberg. We also have some great resources from our Entree Leadership team and from our friends at InfusionSoft. We're going to get right to this because it's so good. Adam has got a new podcast out that is going bananas. It's called WorkLife. It's a TED partnership. And it's just a great listen.

I highly recommend it. And I hardly ever tell you about other podcasts on this. show, but it really is good stuff. And we talk a lot in this conversation about some of the things he highlights on his podcast. And I'm telling you, if you don't get something out of this, you need to call your doctor and get a referral to get your head checked. Because this is great stuff. I took a ton of notes and you need to be as well. Here is Adam Grant. I want to get right into some of the content that you've been playing around with and diving into yourself. And that first topic would be that oftentimes the actual jobs we have, well, they

aren't designed for us. And when people get to that realization, it can create a whole gamut of negative emotions. But you and I both believe we can actually create the job we want. How do we go about that when we're facing this reality? Wait a second. I'm just not where I'm supposed to be. So I went to this crazy company called Morningstar. They're a tomato paste plant. that has run successfully for decades without a single boss. Wow. And I looked at that and said, I want to work there. I never wanted to have a boss.

It's part of why I became a professor. Sure. I was curious about how they make it work. And one of the things they do is they say, look, you know our company's mission, and every year you can sit down and write out your statement of how your work is going to contribute to that mission. And that's your own job description.

But you don't just get to make it up. You then have to go to the five to ten people that you're most interdependent with, and get their feedback and buy it, and basically convince them that the job you want is the one that you should be doing because it serves the team or the company mission. And look, I'm not saying every company should run without bosses. I am saying we could all do this, right? If you have a more ideal image of your job that you want to create, map it out, go to your boss, go to a couple colleagues, and say, here's what I'd love to be doing, here's how I think it might add value. And can we create a scenario where I get to do that,

least as, you know, maybe 5, 10% of my time. Wow. Well, let's stay there with this great story. What happened when, Adam, they would take that job description to those five people and it was met with some resistance, good resistance, because it wasn't maybe a good fit. I'm just curious how that cycled itself out. So Morningstar has this process of what they call gaining agreement, which is basically conflict resolution.

So the first thing you do is you go to a colleague, and if you're not aligned on what you think your job should be, then you get to choose a mediator. Somebody, the two of you agree on, to come in, hear both sides of the conflict, and then give you a recommendation, just like standard conflict mediation. But you don't actually have to follow the recommendation. So let's say you disagree with what the mediator says. She sides with your colleague. You can say, I don't accept that. I reject the request. And then it goes to a larger group of colleagues. It's a panel, so you might have five or ten colleagues that review it, and they make a recommendation. You still. You still don't have to follow it, though. If you still reject, then it goes all the way up to the founder,

owner, Chris, and he will make the final decision, whether, you know, you should basically be allowed to do this or not. And very few of these conflicts ever make it to Chris. People find their colleagues reasonable. They talk through, what are the concerns? And then they find creative ways to resolve them. And, you know, again, could more of us do that? I think so. Yeah. Well, that's really interesting. I think for a lot of people that are listening, I've got to ask another question on that. Obviously, you have the founder you just mentioned Chris. So there is leadership. There's just not a normal org chart. Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, that's right. So I went in thinking no bosses means no hierarchy. And I was totally wrong.

They have a hierarchy, but they think of it as a dynamic hierarchy where, you know, instead of there being an org chart with somebody who has the most experience or who's been promoted to the highest title running the show, in every meeting, they go around the room. And they try to figure out who has the most relevant expertise. And that person is basically in charge for that. meeting. You know, how many times have you ever been in a meeting where you've said, wow, the person with the most knowledge in this room has no authority whatsoever, and that is totally backward? Yes, that's right. Okay, a couple of questions here that I think I'm so excited about this because I think it is Main Street USA for those that are in business. Let's talk about

working with people. We just don't like difficult people. Who knows what the reason is? It really doesn't matter, but they just seem to suck the energy out of us. We don't like being around them. You suggest that we can actually overcome that. How do we do that? I don't want to suggest that it's easy. Yeah. But one of the things that was fun about this first season of work life was I picked organizations that went to the extreme on something I really wanted to master.

And so, you know, if you're going to trust people you don't like, where better to go than the space station where if astronauts don't trust their colleagues, they're probably not going to live. That's right. And so I talked to a bunch of astronauts. One of the things they do to build trust is they have, wilderness training, where they send you out on a, like, a Knowles course where you have to navigate some difficult terrain. You might have to decide, do we go up this mountain by making a left turn or a right turn? And you have to suffer through these struggles with your colleagues. And what you will

quickly discover is that even the people you don't like, there are times that you can rely on them because they have a skill set that you don't. Or because even though they weren't warm and fuzzy, they showed integrity. And they followed through on the commitments they made. And I think the mistake that most of us make is when we want to develop trust with someone, we say, oh, all right, I'll go out to lunch with that person. And then we say, all right, we'll get together again in a month. And the problem is that the short windows spaced apart don't give us enough time to really get deep. And, you know, to sort of discover the real you on the other side of the table. And so the way that NASA overcame that was in their wilderness

training. They have people work together for, it might be three, four, even 11 days, nonstop. And by the end of that, you definitely know these people really well. You have a sense of their stress responses, what brings out the worst in them, and how to avoid pushing those buttons. And I think that's much more powerful for building trust than saying, ah, we'll have that monthly lunch. Yeah. Well, that's a good point. Adam, it proves the point that we don't actually have to like somebody to trust them or to actually get something done with them. And I think there's the psychology behind what is so draining for working with difficult people or people we don't like. If we take that pressure off ourselves, I'm guessing, Adam, that it's a lot easier to, in fact, work with them. I think it is. And we ask ourselves the wrong question a lot. So, you know, when I'm trying to figure out if I want to work with someone, my first question is, how much do I enjoy interacting with that person? And that's a liking question. But what I really need to know is how much can I count on this person, which is what trust is all about. And think if you shift to that latter question, you find collaborators who you never would have considered before. Well, that's true.

Okay. Boy, we get this question a lot, Adam, with our entrepreneurs and small business leaders. We'll be at a live event and they'll say, well, we've got a real rock star. Just killing it. They just kill it, top salesperson, but they're not a team player. They kill the culture. and I'm just, what do I do? I'm afraid to do anything because it's going to hurt my revenue. You actually took this on, the stars with big egos. What'd you learn?

Well, the top line message would be you want to either get rid of those people or try to reform them. Yes. And the data on this are fascinating. So if you look at World Cup soccer qualifying matches, NBA basketball teams over a decade, or even Wall Street analysts' recommendations, you see that teams that a mix of stars and role players are actually more successful than teams that have all. stars. And a lot of that is because the stars are basically maximizing their individual performance. And they're not willing to do the grunt work. They're not willing to fill the holes. Like in the basketball world, you know, diving for the loose ball, studying the game stats, figuring out what can I do on the margin that will make my team better? And so, you know, very often the toxic superstars are not only failing to do that stuff. They're actually squashing the motivation of their teammates to do that stuff. It's like, these people don't value me. They don't appreciate me. Why?

in the world should I do it? And so I have a colleague Rob Cross who did this great analysis across a bunch of companies. He said, let's look at individual performance and let's cross that with an analysis of who makes their team better. So in a sports world, it would be like the plus minus statistic of how much better is the team when you're on the floor or the court. And he found that there was only about 50% overlap between the individual stars and the people who elevated their teams. And what that showed is that half of your stars are are basically not helping the team. And half of your invaluable role players, that's not showing up in your individual performance metrics. And I think it's tempting to say, all right, what we want to do

from that is we want the stars who are also great team players. But we can't always get those people. And so I think we actually need to value those role players more. So every time I hear a leader say, I only hire A players. My reaction is, then you only have B teams. Yes. Boy, that's so true. You look at Bill Belichick, what he's done in New England. The guy constantly goes to get these free agents that maybe not known or have been devalued over time. He plugs them into the system and they become so vital. I want to stay here too because, again, we hear this question over and over and over, Adam, and you addressed it. But something you said in your answer, I think we've got to unpack a little bit more.

I'm just going to tee you up to play with it. And that is that while the star drives their own individual performance, they've got great numbers. So let's take basketball. They're scoring a bunch of points. maybe they're doing triple doubles. Like Russell Westbrook for Oklahoma City. I mean, this guy set an unbelievable record last year in the NBA of the most triple doubles ever.

So his individual output at him was insane. But they were lackluster and underachieved. And what happens is you touched on it. The rest of the team begins to shrink because they're standing around watching him. How can a star weaken the entire team? Well, you know, I think what's interesting about Russell Westbrook is if you break down a triple double,

It's not so clear that an assist is a selfish metric, right? That's true. I'm helping my teammates score. Right. But I think there are times when that turns into a ball hog, and you basically have somebody who's always in charge, and that makes your team more predictable. Yeah.

There was a fun study looking at NBA basketball over some decades, showing that a team maxes out on its odds of winning when they've been together for maybe three or four years. And, you know, that's when you've really gotten to know each other's strengths and weaknesses, you've developed effective routines, and you can run with those. And then after that point, teams actually get worse. So they have too much shared experience.

What's that about? Well, some of it might just be the players getting old. That could be part of the story. That's right. But there's also a routine rigidity that you have these teams that sort of calcify and they get stuck in the way they've always succeeded. And that means they get complacent.

They rest on their laurels. It's easier for teams to develop competitive strategies to beat them. And so I think, that's especially likely with your stars, right, who say, hey, this is my role, this is how I excel, this is how I maximize my performance. And you need those people to have the humility to take a step back and say, wait a minute, there might be a better way to think about making this team successful. Yeah. And, you know, it also speaks to the importance of leadership, Adam, when it comes of developing those role players. Back to what you said a moment ago, if you're hiring only A players,

you've got a B team. But if you've got a bunch of Bs and Cs that you can develop and move them up over time. Isn't that where sustainability and real winning takes place? Yeah, I think it is. There was this study I love by Jim Barron at Yale where he looked at individual stars in fields ranging from major league baseball to sales and tracked a bunch of industries and found that sure enough, stars contribute disproportionately when you look at their individual metrics. So a typical top 10% performer was not bringing in 10% more sales revenue, was bringing in double the sales revenue, right, of the next group of people. But Jim found that you could wipe out the difference between stars and B players by just over-rewarding your B-players. And what that seems to do is it cultivates gratitude.

And you have these people who are motivated and talented. Maybe they've never quite been the best, but they're very good, who say, wow, I'm uniquely valued and appreciated in this place. And so you end up earning a lot more loyalty. They end up working harder and smarter for you. and that can substitute for just raw talent, which I think is pretty cool. Yeah, that is cool. How did they reward them? Was it not just compensation, but other ways as well? Recognition.

Yeah, some of it was pay, some of it was social recognition. There are some companies that have gone as far to say, you know what, we'll pay for your vacations to make sure that you actually take them. Or another one that I really liked was actually treating performance as a chance to earn the reward of choosing your next project. So, you know, if you're a star, we will give you the discretion to figure out what you want to work on next. Wow, that's really cool. Okay, another big topic that the Work Life podcast took on is getting criticized. I mean, this is not fun for anybody. Some people handle it better than others. And it happens, whether it's constructive or just straight up criticism. And you suggest that we can learn to love it. I believe it, but let's put it to the test. Ken, give me some criticism. Tell me what I've done poorly so far. Oh, my gosh. I don't think you've done anything poorly. And that's the honest truth. Well, that's disappointing. It is.

You've totally let me down here. Come on, bring it on. Okay, I mean, this is super picky. I'm not sure I'm a fan of your shirt coat combo. Oh, that is so harsh. I just feel like you stabbed me in the back right now. Well, you've not done poorly at all. I can't criticize your answers.

You're brilliant. You're one of my favorite writers. So the team knows this. This is not suck up. This is like, you put me in a tough position. I was hoping to do that. But tell me what you don't like about the shirt coat. Well, from what I can see, I just don't like the color,

combo, you know? I'd like to see a V-neck with that coat. If you're going to wear a t-shirt and a sport coat, I'm a V-neck guy. I'm wearing a V-neck with my cardigan right now. I can see that. That's true. Yeah, so this is ridiculous criticism. No, no. Look, I have the fashion sense of a Muppet as more than one person who's told me. And so, you know, mostly. That's the best line I'll hear all day. That's it. I mean, look, it's true. I can deny it or I can accept it. There you go. And my wife threw out my entire wardrobe. robe when we started dating. You know, not just like, hey, you should get rid of some of these shirts.

Literally everything gone. We're starting over, Adam. It's over. Complete reset. And, you know, there are days when either I get dressed in the dark or she doesn't approve first and I combine the wrong stuff. And so what I've learned about this is a lot of this came from going to Bridgewater, Ray Dalio's hedge fund, where, you know, they try to teach people to love criticism. And you can basically think about it this way.

You can wander around through your life. knowing that people are thinking things about you and things that could be better about you and not saying them. And you can either live in a world where you're in the dark about that stuff or you get to hear it and you can learn from it and improve. And which world would you rather live in? The world where people have these thoughts and they may even talk about them, but you never benefit from them. That's right. Or a world where, you know, it's a little uncomfortable and not fun. Like, I'm not delighted that you don't love my outfit or anything. But, you know, it's like, hey, all right, that's, You seem like a much more stylish guy than I am. Maybe I can learn something in this situation and not mismatch these colors and styles again.

And so, you know, I think that when you take a long-term perspective on that, would I rather be the person who's always trying to prove myself? Or do I want to be the person who's trying to improve myself? And I would like to be that latter person. And so when I get negative feedback, the first question I want to ask is, what can I learn from that? And, you know, how can I take it in such a way that I'm not defensive and just say thank you. So thank you for the feedback. Yeah, I mean, that was completely forced, folks. It's a perfectly fine outfit. But I want to stay here. This is so important, Adam. And I found, because unfortunately, I get a lot of criticism just by being a public figure of my shows out there on Sirius XM. You've got haters that just have nothing else to do than just say something. But here's what I've learned about criticism. Exactly what you said, which is there's some truth in it many times. Sometimes it's just a teeny tiny kernel, but I still need to hear it, even if it wasn't.

presented beautifully. And maybe it was mean-spirited, but there's still some truth there. And then I would say, and I want you to comment on these final two, so the kernel of truth. But then what I've learned at, I don't know if you've faced this, but I have learned to develop a muscle when it is absolutely no truth at all. I can still receive it without it turning me into this emotional, insecure. You know, I'm able to process it and look for the truth. And when there's no truth there, I go, oh, okay, this is just insanity, someone being nasty, move on. Do you find that? Yeah, I feel like this could be a game show. Truth or troll. Oh, good call. Yeah, truth or troll. That's right. The thing I worry about is that people are too dismissive of feedback that does have that kernel of truth.

That's right. So, as you know, in the podcast, I talked about some research where it turns out that our brains work a little bit like a totalitarian dictator. Yes. where we're sort of, without even realizing it, we're controlling the flow of information about us, much like a dictator would control the press and make sure that the media only says positive things as opposed to negative. And we have that natural instinct, right? Because nobody wants to feel like they're being excluded or they're being sort of just trashed. And so I think that oftentimes we have to overcorrect. So the thing that I like to see people do when they're criticized is just to say, thank you. Yeah. Because if somebody took the time to criticize me, that means,

they care enough about, you know, my behavior that they want to try to do something about it. They think I matter, right? Even if they violently object to who I am and what I stand for, they think I am worth giving feedback to me. And that says to me, I count. And so then I want to say, all right, is there something I can learn from this? The answer may well be no. But I think too often the answer is yes, and we assume it's no because the feedback is upsetting. Yes. And so we end up missing out on those learning opportunities. Oh, it's so good. And listen, It's not fun to get where you're talking about, but boy, boy, it is healthy. And you're going to learn so much more by learning how to take it.

Okay, another big topic. You hear all this stuff about work life balance and then some people come out, say, there's no such thing and blah, blah, blah, blah. But the idea that our work lives don't have to be our entire identity, our whole life. I mean, some people, sadly enough, that is what happens. But you suggest that that does not have to be the case. How do we keep the delineation in place? Well, I actually got an interesting note from a listener who said, a friend of hers just did a doctoral dissertation on work-life balance, which showed that the very language of balance leads people to be more upset and unhappy with their work-like balance.

That's right. You know, it evokes this image of, oh, I'm juggling everything perfectly, or I'm balancing on a tightrope or a balance beam, and nobody's life is like that. Yeah. I think that we're systematically out of balance. We have days where we spend too much time at work. We have days where we neglect our work where we're focused on family or other priorities. And I think that's totally reasonable because humans are terrible parallel processors, right? We can't do multiple things at once unless you're one of about two and a half percent of people who are called supertaskers.

Yes. Who can actually divide attention and multitask effectively. Most people don't operate that way. And so what the study found was that if you just reframe it as work-life management, it becomes easier to navigate because now it's something that you're working on, right? That you're always trying to think through and problem solve on, but you never expect to get it in perfect balance. And I think that mindset actually matters. Yeah, really, really important stuff.

And would you say for what you found where someone is just completely locked into work and it becomes their entire life, that they're essentially running away from something else and pain, maybe they're just using work to fill in that hole? Well, I think there are sort of two flavors of this. So there's a psychologist Ian McGregor who studies what he calls compensatory conviction, which is the idea that you're sort of experiencing something really anxiety provoking in one part of your life. And the way you cope with that is to compensate by flinging yourself into a passionate project in a different part of your life so that you don't notice it as much or it doesn't bother you in the same way. And that happens to a lot of people, right? So a lot of people immerse themselves in a work to escape stress, you know, at home or in their communities. But there's also such a thing as, you know, being what my colleague Nancy Rothbard calls an engaged workaholic, where you're obsessed with your work because you really enjoy it and you look forward to it and you find it meaningful. And that doesn't necessarily mean you're running away from anything. It may be that you're running towards something, which is, you know, kind of how I feel about my job.

Yeah, that's right. All right, four lets you go. You tweeted something earlier today. Of course, we're recording the podcast here. But Elizabeth Hopper wrote, an article, but you referenced this article, and there was a picture graph, but the article by Elizabeth was around the idea of, can we be too selfless in our relationships, essentially saying, hey, if we don't care for ourselves first, we're not going to be able to most effectively care for others. And with so many people on mission in their work, they tie their work to caring for others. If we don't care for ourselves, we're never going to truly meet our full potential. It was really powerful. It was convicting. It was funny as well.

is a great little grab. I just want to tee you up to talk about that because it was a great challenge for me today, and I want to share that with our audience. This is something I became aware of about nine years ago. I was doing some research on success and what kinds of employees are the most productive in their jobs. And I was studying all kinds of jobs. I studied salespeople, engineers, firefighters, fundraisers, had physicians and nurses. And what I was struck by was that I always thought that concern for self and concern for others were opposites. And so you could draw a little continuum, and we had selfish people on one end and, you know, generous people on the other. When I measured those motivations, I found they were basically uncorrelated.

And that how much you cared about your own goals was completely separate from how much you cared about helping other people. And so I ended up drawing this two by two where, you could say, look, if you're high on concern for self and low unconcern for others, you're basically a selfish taker. It's all about you. If you're low on both, if you don't care about yourself or other people, you just don't care, right? That's apathy. That's right. And I thought Homer Simpson was a good illustration of that. Yeah, it's perfect.

Yeah, just totally checked out on life. Completely, right? And the flip of that is, what about people who are high on concern for others? So concern for others is about being a giver, not a taker. But that can vary based on how much you also care about your own goals and your own well-being. And I found in a bunch of studies that the worst performers and the people most likely to burn out were actually the givers who cared a lot about others but not about themselves. And they self-sacrifice. They overextended themselves. They got exploited by takers.

They basically just exhausted their time and energy and their resources. Successful givers were much more likely to say, I care about others, but I also care about myself. And it's not that when I help people, I want something back from them. it's that I set boundaries so that I'm not helping people in a way that that costs me something that I cannot afford to give. That's right. And so, you know, I'm basically trying to act in ways that benefit others a lot, but only cost me a little or nothing, or maybe even benefit me too. And those people are more successful, right? They were ambitious for others, but also for themselves.

And lo and behold, this new research has come out supporting something that I'd found in some of my own studies as well, which is, that's also a recipe for happiness. It's not just the most productive people who care about others and themselves. It's also the happiest people who do. And the irony of this is that it feels less altruistic. If you are caring about others, but you also care a lot about yourself and you're more thoughtful about saying no, for example, you feel like a less generous person. And yet ironically, the data show you give more.

Because by giving to yourself, you basically reinvested and having time and energy and connections to share with other people. And so, you know, I think the sustainable recipe for long-term productivity and happiness is to say, caring about others matters, so does caring about yourself. That's right. It's so brilliant, Adam, because let's just be honest, we could all think of some very, very well-known men and women who have literally changed the world but had no relationship with their families. They chose the work, which was great work, and we lionized them. And for good reason, yet is it worth sacrificing your family?

I don't say that from a judgmental standpoint. What I just say, if we're looking at happiness, we've got to take care of ourselves. And the idea that we are gifts and our gifts are for others, that means we've got to take care of ourselves. I think it's a great challenge. And sometimes we lose sight of it. And it's a blind spot for so many high achievers. So really, really good stuff.

Well, Adam, it is always, always, always a treat. Your writing challenges me. If you're not following Adam on social media or listening to the worklife podcast, you are starving yourself from some great, great, great, content. I really do admire the way you think. I think that you're a gift to so many of us, and I know you're crazy busy. So I take your time very seriously. We value you. And thanks for being a guest with us again. We always love having you here. So let us know how we can continue to promote what you're doing. Well, thank you. It's an honor to be here. I really appreciate you taking the time to ask such interesting questions. And also to say such nice things, which I now feel

a tremendous responsibility to earn. So I've got some work cut out for me. But thank you. And your clothes are fine. I had to play the part. I must sign off by being honest. I cannot lie to someone. I played the part. Folks, his clothes are fine. His wife has done a fantastic job. So way to go. Mrs. Grant, fun stuff. Hey, Adam, thanks again, buddy. We appreciate you. Thank you. Hope you enjoyed Adam Grant again. The name of his show, the podcast, is Work Life. He also has a free monthly newsletter entitled Granted, and there's all kinds of goodness there. And I'll just tell you personally, I follow him on Twitter because at once a day he's dropping a bomb on me that I need to sit down and think about a little bit. I have to kind of breathe slowly and focus in on what he said.

That's how smart this guy is. All right, let's move to our Entree Leadership Resource for you this episode. 43 ways, not 42, not 41, not 40, and not 44, 43 ways to recognize your team. Ironically, 43% of Americans are actively looking for a new job. the leading cause? Lack of recognition. I talk about this all the time. The Entre leadership team knows that if you can recognize your team and do it well,

you're going to be ahead of the game. You're going to see retention and engagement go up. 43 ways to recognize your team. It doesn't cost you anything either. It's just recognition. So, 43 ways. Why wouldn't you take us up on this? 43 ways.

I really want to know why we didn't get the 44, but I'll talk about that offline. Here's how you get it. Text the word recognize to 33444-4. That's recognize. Type 3-3-44-4 and hit send and it's coming your way. Well, folks, Summit 2018 is barely behind us. But I'm telling you right now,

it was the best event entre leadership has ever put on. It was incredibly fun and so rewarding for everybody from the attendees to those of us on the team. And we're already thinking about Summit 2019. You ask me, why, Ken? Hey, we just got through San Antonio. Now you're telling me about 2019? Well, we left San Antonio with more than 70% of the tickets for Summit 2019 already sold.

Now, if you want an endorsement, I can tell you all I want to until I'm blue in the face about how great the event is. But the reality is, the proof is in the pudding, as my grandmother used to say. and more than 70% of the people who were at San Antonio said, I'm in for next year. Give me my registration. I'm ready to go. So they got their nice sunglasses.

They're all locked up. So that means this thing's going to sell out way faster than it ever has before. San Diego, April 28th through May 1st of 2019. Unbelievable. That's going to be 2,400 of you leaders together in one room. And the energy there is absolutely combustible. So much fun for me to. get to lead that event on the stage.

Our 2019 lineup includes Dave Ramsey, Chris Hogan, Pat Lincione, Marcus Buckingham, Dr. Henry Cloud, Simon Sinek, Carrie Lorenz, who, by the way, the first female F-14 fighter pilot, and then Peyton Manning, a guy who used to spin the pigskin pretty well. It's going to be an unbelievable lineup. They're also working on some other great surprises that if I say anything about it, will the producer will shock me, and it'll be like being tased, I'll fall over. The whole episode will be ruined, so I've got to stop while I'm ahead. Here's how you register.

Go to Entreeleadership.com slash Summit 2019. That's Entreeleadership.com slash Summit 2019. Our friends at InfusionSoft are going to bring you a plan. I'm telling you folks, when proven plans are readily available to you, it's like getting a copy of the New England Patriots playbook. You're just going to take them up on that.

All right, let me see what their plan is. And you're just going to pick and choose whatever you want to do. But this works. And so InfusionSoft is going to bring you this planner that's going to help you get more customers, grow your sales, and save time. Let me repeat that. More customers, more sales, and more time for you. Who doesn't want that? So here's how you get it.

Go to infusionsoft.com slash get my planner. That's infusionsoft.com slash get my planner. Well, I can't believe it. Another episode, almost in the books. But before we close, I want to say on behalf of Will the producer, Tim the enjoy, engineer and the entire Entree leadership team. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.