EntreLeadership - 3 Bad Conversation Habits We’re All Guilty Of

Episode Date: August 24, 2026

📝 Shape what comes next for the EntreLeadership show by participating in our 2026 audience study. For completing the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a Standard ticket to EntreLeadership® Summit 2027. The best leaders don't avoid hard conversations. But they do prepare for them. In this episode, John Felkins sits down with communication expert Jefferson Fisher and relationship expert Dr. John Delony to share practical strategies for staying calm, owning your mistakes, and communicating well under pressure. Next Steps: ·      🎯 Not sure what to do next in your business? Let’s figure it out together. Book a free 30-minute consult call with the EntreLeadership Team. ·      📞 Have a question for the show? Call 844-944-1070 or send us a message. ·      📚 Order Dave’s most recent EntreLeadership book, Build a Business You Love. ·      📧 Get EntreLeadership’s free weekly newsletter: expert advice and practical tips from the same playbook we used to build Ramsey Solutions into a $300 million company. ·      🌎 Attend our world-class leadership conference, EntreLeadership Summit. ·      📝 Stop guessing. Get a plan built for your business and someone who holds you to it. Find out which coaching option is right for you. ·      📈 Take a deep dive into the EntreLeadership System™ at our Master Series event, where our Executive Team shares the exact strategies behind our growth so you can run your business the same way.   Connect With Our Sponsors: ·  Go to Belay Solutions or text ENTRE to 55123 for their free resource! ·  See if Christian Healthcare Ministries Groups are the right fit for your organization. ·  Visit NetSuite today to learn more.   Listen to More From Ramsey Network: 🎙️ The Ramsey Show 💸 The Ramsey Show Highlights 🧠 The Dr. John Delony Show 🍸 Smart Money Happy Hour 💰 George Kamel   Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey guys, I really need your help with something. I want you to shape what comes next for the Entree Leadership Show by participating in our 2026 audience study. Text survey to 33789 to get the link or go to ramsysolutions.com slash survey. Once you've completed the survey, you can enter for a chance to win a standard ticket to Entree Leadership Summit 2027. The survey closes September 30th. If you're stressed out, angry, exhausted, or carrying chaos between home and work,

it's going to come out in how you communicate. And a lot of leaders don't realize it's a problem until they're snapping at their team, apologizing to people or bringing all that frustration home at the end of the day. So Entree leadership's John Falcons is talking with communications expert, Jefferson Fisher, and relationship expert, Dr. John Deloney, about how healthy leaders manage themselves first so they can show up well for their team, their business, and their family. Let's get to it. Jefferson, thanks for being here today. Thank you for having me. Deloni, thanks for coming back. Thanks for stopping by. You're welcome. So, Jefferson, you spend all

your time helping people, or a lot of your time, I should say. A lot of your time helping people communicate more effectively. Right. And Deloney, you help people have healthier relationships. True? True. Okay. So I've listened to you. I've listened to you. I've listened to you. I've listened to you. to a lot of your advice, you've spoken at our events before, and you do help people, but it doesn't always go that way. Yeah, sure. Right. Like, sometimes it goes pretty poorly. Right. What are, like, the top offenders? What are the things that you see people do and have conversations go sideways? One would be they make up the conversation in their head before they actually have it, meaning they've already anticipated your response. So they're thinking about the conversation while

they're driving into work while they're brushing their teeth. And as soon as the other person doesn't say what they thought they were going to say, it cancels it because they thought the whole thing was going to be scripted. They started driving without knowing where they wanted to go. So without having a goal in mind is to sure a way that you're not going to get there. Number two, they rush. So they're going to get very quick and get very reactive and the way they're going to communicate. They feel like the faster the conversation is somehow the better.

It's the exact opposite. Much better to say, hey, I'm going to have a conversation with you over the next few weeks. You're going to release the pressure valve on that moment. And three, turn statements into questions. Usually they're very accusatory, very direct accusations. Instead, it's much better to turn that statement into a question, and you're going to get a whole lot more. Why do you think, why do you think those are the defaults? Like, why does that end up being the way people communicate when it's gone badly? Like, why do they do that? Because our nervous system is meant to protect us, and we're going to get defensive.

So you telling me something, I'm going to interpret it usually in the worst way possible. So you might say something, and my interpretation of is, oh, you're mad at me. How many times in the work context, I mean, I goes, oh, I thought you were upset with me. And all you did was say thanks with no period. You know what I mean?

And so it's very easy to have that kind of filter because our system's always keeping us on the defensive and we're going to use defensive language. And a lot of times, as a leader, we hedge because we don't want them to be disappointed with us. We don't want to hurt their feelings, and so we feel other people's feeling for us. That's why. Talk a little more about hedge. What do you mean when you say, as leaders, we hedge?

We undercut the words before we get them out. So it might sound as simple as, okay, I might get this wrong, but, or, hey, I hate to bother you, but, and then we start talking. Or, yeah, I mean, this is, yeah, this is going to be a little rough and rocky, but you start to hedge because you're afraid you're going to hurt their feelings. And so, you know what this is like. You sugarcoat. Hey, remember the other day? And, I mean, I mean, I could be totally wrong here. But it seems like the more you sugarcoat, the more bitter it becomes.

So you're right. I do know what that's like. I appreciate you calling that out. because I have done that. And I actually, as I reflect on that, like when I think about when I've had to apologize for people, for two people, for doing things like you just talked about, because I surely have. I think about like what happened before I got to that conversation.

I've noticed if I'm driving to work and at every red light, I pick up my phone and I check email or I check text. By the time I get to the door back here, there's there's good odds that I'm amped, that I'm already worked up about something. And then I go into a conversation that isn't necessarily, you know, set up to be smooth to begin with. Yeah. And I do not follow your advice. My batting average goes way down. Right. And so I guess that's what I want to ask you, Deloney. Like, there's kind of a big question, but like, how do you as a leader live a life? You know, what habits do you want to latch on to so that when you hit the door at the office, you give yourself the best odds of taking Jefferson's advice and doing something with it

and not doing all the stuff that he said, you know, people screw up in conversations? I mean, that's, for everybody that's going to be different. The basic principles are, are your relationships good? Is your physical health good? Is your, are you prioritizing sleep and movement? Like, what I would call just human 101 stuff, right? And if you're redlining all the time and then you have to have, hard conversation, man.

Most people have to gear themselves up for confrontation. That's what makes sitting with a good attorney so unnerving is their heart rate is so low during a deposition, right? Or during conversation and it's unnerving because we're ready to fight and you got one guy just smiling at you, right? Or you know, like back you, back in your old college days when you'd get all wasted and try to fight people in the parking lot, like the guy who was like, yeah, yeah, no problem. the guy that smiles at you and just takes his jacket off,

like, you know, I mess with that guy. That's a guy I'm worried about. But that's a guy that knows I've been training for years and you wanna do this. I'll embarrass you in front of your friends, right? So I think it's taking care of yourself so that I can show up and be, when you're a leader dude, you are committing,

I'm hiring you and you can anchor into me and this mission. So I have to do the work to make sure I am able to be anchored into. And that happens outside of this place. Fair enough. What happens, let's say, you get in the conversation. You come through the door

and you've done what you just advised to some degree, right? And you've heard Jefferson talk. You know, you know, what you're supposed to do, but it doesn't go so well. Is there something that you could do to just like hit reset in the moment? Like if you're halfway through the day

and it's going poorly, is there a way to hit reset halfway through the day and try and recover from that? Or you better off just to go home? Are you talking about a specific? interaction or just I just show up at work and I'm all over the place today. I think I think more the series of interactions because Jefferson your advice is like how to handle the situation but as leaders the

people that are watching us they have that situation 15 times before lunch and it's like they're at bats I can do the right thing I can stay calm I can be curious but we're not batting a thousand yeah my my harsh advice is you're the leader at some point you need to go put on your big boy pants or your big girl pants and be an adult, right? I've come to a place now and I don't know if this is scientifically accurate, but I don't know that we can help our feelings.

I think our bodies are always skinning the environment trying to take care of us and feelings happen. Great leaders, great fathers, great husbands, great wives, great adults are emotionally mature, which means I have this feeling and I'm gonna go do the next right thing. And on those particular days, and it's rare, it should be rare. Should be.

But you gotta reach out and say, hey, I'm gonna cancel the rest of the afternoon. Like, I'm causing more problems here at my workplace, and we've all had days like that. Then be an adult and do that. Or if it is, I know I'm gonna come into this meeting hot, so I'm going to, I love the advice. I'm gonna let the first words of my sentences be a breath.

I'm gonna consciously pay attention to myself. And sometimes just being an adult. And if you can't be an adult, like, and I hate to be crass about it, but you gotta be, if you can't be emotionally mature, you can't expect the people around you to be that way, right? That reminds me of Patrick Lincione's book, The Motive. And he says, the person in a room that is willing to do the most emotional work

is the person that's going to lead. And so I think what I hear you saying is, if you have to actually just like catch yourself and say, I got to stop, I got to, that's a huge energy spin because it doesn't happen naturally, right? Right. Like that's working against the grain with your nervous system and everything that's wired inside of it.

But you know one of the surefirest ways to become a leader that your people will trust, get into a conversation and stop and say, hold on, I'm sorry. I got this whole thing off on the wrong foot. I'm in charge here and I messed this up. Can we start over? You do that.

A, that's a flex because you're modeling, I'm emotionally in control. B, you said the magic leadership words, I'm sorry, right? Which every leader needs to learn how to say. And then you said, let's go again. And, man, that sends a message to your whole team. Oh, that guy's in control.

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definition is I'm never wrong. Confidence is really, I know that I'll get it wrong. I mean, and I can take strength in that and know that I'm going to happen. So what Deloney is saying of you, you be the first to model repair. I mean, who can complain about that that goes, you know what, that person's doing it the right way. That person's a true leader. So when you go and you start the conversation the wrong way, the worst thing you can do is continue to go the wrong way. It's like a surgeon cutting and being like, wrong leg, I'm just going to keep going. I guess. Why would they do that?

Or you're going the wrong way down a highway. And it's, well, I guess because I'm here, I just got to keep going. It's the wrong direction. Exactly. But we're making good time. Right, right. Exactly. This is perfect.

But if I were to stop and say, hey, you know what, just like Deloney said, I'm not approaching this conversation how I wanted to. Can I restart this? Nobody's going to tell you no. Nobody's going to say, nope, sorry. You've got to stick with this terrible approach right here, please. Right. But everybody goes, yeah, please.

And that's showing that I know I'm going to get it wrong. I can still be confident in it. And I'm showing that emotional intelligence along the way. So it seems like a killer move on the job or at the office. Let's shift gears a little bit. You're at the end of the day. You drive in the driveway. You've had a long day.

You're tired. What are some of the habits or thoughts that you're having when you go through that back door of the house to not repeat maybe the difficult part of the day or have the hard conversations at home. What do you do to make it go better? In my house, I've got kind of a ritual where I will call or text and say, what's tonight look like? And what I'm trying to do is align our pictures of what tonight looks like. She might say, hey, the kids are driving me crazy, I need a break tonight, and I might think, cool, a break is after dinner, after you reroof the house, and after you repaved the driveway,

then you can do whatever you want, right? And she might be thinking the moment you walk in here, I'm out of here, right? So I always will text her call, hey, what tonight look like, make sure our pictures are aligned on it. And in some cheesy way, because there is, how can I love you tonight? What do you want for me tonight? And I'm just going to follow that lead. And then there's some days that I'll go to the gym straight from here. I'll call Jefferson and say, hey, let's go.

I haven't done this yet. He just moved here. But like, hey, let's go hang out. Or, um... Yeah, he never calls me. He never... There are times I sit in my driveway for 10 minutes. Yeah.

And I just finished the song I'm listening to. Like, I remember Jocko talking about my going from a military and he always kept Jim shorts and a t-shirt and his flip-flops in the car. I'm going to change my clothes before I go in there because my kids are not my... Right. My infantryman, right? So that's my job rolling into my house to show up as the person they need not to bring all this stuff.

It's not helpful. Yeah. Yeah. What do you do? I use the phrase, I can tell. Like, I can tell that I'm really exhausted right now. I can tell that I'm tired. I can tell I'm getting defensive.

I can tell I'm getting overwhelmed. Like, if I can verbalize how I'm feeling when you claim it, in some sense, you control it. And what it does is giving you the other person, that roadmap of where I'm at. I've also heard the advice of, it's good to give a percentage. Like, where's your battery at?

Are you at 57%? Are you probably like John and never charges his phone? and he's like on 2% trying to find his phone. And it's like, where do you, how do you measure that? So it's good to also know what I think he brings up is,

the first thing he says, the ritual that we have. What are the things that you can agree on in your own home? Like for us, we have checkouts. So that means after the kids are in bed, that's when we actually start to like, hey, good to see you.

You live here too? Awesome. Yeah. What's your name? Yeah. How was your day? And we actually get to have a conversation that's not interrupted 100 times.

But it's good to have that moment to be able to talk, not only about how your work day was, but how are we doing? And never walk in the door and say, I can tell about them. Yeah, exactly. I can tell you're tired.

I can tell you're in a bad mood. I can tell you're not doing good. You look like you had a rough day. Yeah, that's like taking a small fire and be like, here's some gas. Right, yeah, exactly. That doesn't work well. Like you said earlier,

killer thing for a leader to do is to say, I'm sorry, I was wrong, I need to do something else. My question is, is how do you as a leader live a life to reduce how often you have to do that. Well, there's one element of if we want to talk about language usage, instead of that, hey, I'm so sorry, hey, I'm sorry about, I want you to turn that I'm sorry as into gratitude. Hey, I appreciate the patience there.

Hey, I appreciate the leniency. Hey, I'm grateful for this chance to talk about X, Y, and Z. And all of a sudden, you're the person who's generous, you know, with benefits of the doubt. you're the person who's confident and appreciating the people. So you have that element and spirit of gratitude rather than that hesitation of, oh, I can't do anything. And I think it also has to do with how often, what kind of culture have you created

for people to make mistakes? I read a, I read a letter from my great grandfather, who was a federal judge to his daughter at the time, does it back in the 50s. And in it, he was writing her a letter and said, you have to give the other person the right in the privilege of making a mistake. same as you. And so when you understand that there is a culture of, you have a right to make a mistake, and I get the right to make a mistake. It's not a, I have to apologize and I have to, you know,

bleed myself all over the floor every time something goes wrong. It's like, this is expected. Yeah, we're going to have this. So when you go into it knowing that you're going to make some mistakes rather than the ego of we never make mistakes, things are going to go a lot better. Yeah. I think great leaders, I'm in this chair right now, because two brilliant extraordinary women at two different universities needed a mouthpiece. Both of them were big-time introverts and they didn't like speaking on stage, but they know part of that job is the kumbaya part and welcoming everybody, and that was, they, it buried them.

They were smarter than me. They knew the business better than me. They knew the legal stuff better than me, but they needed that. And so instead of forcing it and creating an atmosphere that students were like, they like uncomfortable with, they hired this moron and said, say these things, right? And so I think good leaders know like budgets, I love them. The sales calls, I can do them, but I don't love it.

If you find yourself saying, oh, I messed that up and then you may need to go hire somebody to fill the gaps that you're bringing as a leader. It's your business, you get to hire. And some people are great at this part of it. Some people are great at this part of it. Hire the parts that you're not great at and be grateful that you've got people that can fill those roles for you.

And it shows all more confidence, too, of saying, I know what I'm good at and what I'm not great at. And this person is. And you allow them to shine. And it doesn't have to be all about the me show. Yeah, it feels like what you're saying is there's something very different between the feeling of or the thought that like I'm not enough versus this isn't my thing. Yeah.

Or this isn't for me. Right. Right? I don't have to be good at everything. And sometimes it's just a matter of empowering other people to know. that this is a matter of passing it down. Have somebody else lead the meeting. Why? Because they need the reps.

You know, the first pancake is always the worst, right? Sometimes you have to like get some reps in, and that means you have to let somebody else bat and let them swing and miss and strike out several times before they're gonna be hitting the grand slams. Yeah. I know that this is something that people struggle with because we get in our own way,

and we've got our own, we got our own issues, that we're dealing with, and so I really appreciate you, you guys, spending the time talking through this. And, you know, Jefferson, I've heard both of you speak, and you're both brilliant in your own right. I just, you're always so calm and collected. And I just kind of wonder, like, if I reach across right now and just like mess your hair up, like, you know, I know what Deloney will do, you know, he would throw me to the ground and choke me out. But I'm just curious, like, how would you handle that? I'd probably grab your head and then knee up. You know, I'm somebody who was taught words first, usually.

So I have, trust me, I have other aunts and uncles and cousins that are just bull in a china closet. But my dad was very diplomatic. So I got taught with the Socratic method. So if you were going to do something with me, it's genetic. It's going to say, what tells you inside of that head that it's okay to touch my head? You know what I mean? So you won the genetic lottery for staying calm? That and that alone.

That's about it. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I love it. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you for having us. Great leaders learn how to slow down, reset, and get their head straight, so they're not constantly taking out their stress on the people around them. If you enjoy this conversation, Jefferson and Deloney will both be speaking at our Entree Leadership Summit next year in San Diego, California.

You don't want to miss this. Save your spot today by... clicking the link in the description. And be sure to like, share, and subscribe for more real world leadership content. I'm your host Dave Ramsey and this is Entree Leadership.