EntreLeadership - #317: Learn Why Being in Charge Isn’t Enough from EntreLeadership Summit 2019

Episode Date: April 30, 2019

On today’s bonus episode, we’re taking you back to San Diego, California, where EntreLeadership Summit is underway. Have you ever heard of a natural-born leader? Well, we hate to break it to you, but there’s no such thing. Tune in as Dave Ramsey explains why leaders are built, not born, and what it takes to become an amazing one. Hint: It’s much more than being a boss—you know, the person who simply makes all the rules and signs all the paychecks. We’ll also take you behind the scenes to our Live From Summit stage where Ken Coleman sits down to chat—first with Dave, and later with speakers Dr. Henry Cloud and Patrick Lencioni. Get ready, folks. We’re just getting warmed up!   entreleadership.com/podcast See the speaker lineup for EntreLeadership Summit 2020 Get your Backstage Pass and view exclusive content from this year's Summit   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

So you may be here to re-energize yourself. You may be here to re-energize your business and know that a rising tide raises all ships. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Entree Leadership. Now here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Entree Leadership Summit in San Diego, California. This is the broadcast of leaders by leaders for leaders. much for joining us. Boy, oh, boy, we've got it packed for you. You're going to get spoiled. You're

going to want Summit podcast all the time. Don't get spoiled. This is a special treat. It's like Easter dinner comes once a year. Our first day was unbelievable. Dave Ramsey, Dr. Henry Cloud, Pat Lanchione, Carrie Lorenz, and Art Williams all were on the stage. We also had breakout sessions with Dr. Henry Cloud. We had a panel called Lessons from Women in Leadership with some of our amazing female leaders at Ramsey Solutions, who are senior leaders. So just packed with great stuff. Here's what we've got for you. Today's episode, we're going to give you some of the content from the summit stage,

Dave Ramsey, Dr. Henry Cloud, and Pat Lynchione specifically. So let's get to it. All right, we're going to lead off with Dave Ramsey, our CEO, the head and heart behind this event. You're going to hear a portion of Dave's opening keynote. And coming out of his keynote, we're going to take you into a conversation. with Dave right after his talk. But right now, here's Dave from the Summit stage. Welcome to Andrele Leadership Summit.

As you have figured out by now, this year's theme is a rising tide raises all ships. And together, we're going to rise up, baby. We're going to go to a whole different level that we've never been to before. Every one of us in this room are going to leave the week changed and transformed. When it comes to water and tides, Tides have affected entire wars. Water ways have affected entire economies. In the early days of man, of course, water was the primary method of transportation.

So as the tides went, so went everything. Powerful metaphor for us this week. And what a great night last night on the Midway. Wow. So you may be here to re-energize yourself. you may be here to re-energize your business. You may be here to re-energize your leadership and know that a rising tide raises all ships.

That's what we're doing. And we're here to help you this week. We want to help you rise up. We are so proud of you guys. You are the economy. This is so important. You are the tide that needs to rise. The people in this room have more answers for what ails our culture

than all of the people in Washington, D.C. put together. We are honored. to be one of you, we're honored to walk with you, you deserve to win. And we're going to help you do it. It's what we do. We live in this entree leadership brand to lift you guys. It's our favorite stories in the world to find a small business that goes zoom, zoom, and they say, we had just a little part in showing them how to do that. You're heroes, folks, and we are excited to walk with you. All of the opportunity that's in front of you, all of the problems that are in front of you, all the opportunity that's behind you, all the problems that are behind you,

are just about all caused by leadership or a lack thereof. The mistakes in our company, the things that we have done right in our organization to become the brands, the national brands that we've become over the last 20 years, 25 years, starting from a card table in my living room, have all been about leadership and learning how to do this right. And folks, here's the deal. You cannot lead without passion. Speak vision over your people.

Start speaking things over them. Tell them how good they are. Tell them how I think you can do this. I really think you can do this. I don't think you can do this, but I'll be happy to be wrong. I've moved some people into positions that thought they were ready. I didn't think they were ready. But everybody in the building, but me thought they were ready.

So I just looked at everybody and I said they're not ready. You know what? I was wrong. They were ready. I like being wrong. I like being wrong when it helps a whole bunch of people, when it gives people opportunity, and I get to turn around and speak vision over and I go,

you know what, I was wrong, you're a rock star, you're a stud, you're a stud at. You're getting stuff done. I like watching these young leaders in our organization rise up and step up and bring ideas in that I can't even spell. You're limited, not by the economy, not by the Obama White House or the Trump, White House. You're limited by what's between your ears. It's your fault. It's my fault. If we're

winning, hey, let me just tell you, D.C. has never sent me a check. If we're winning and they take credit for it, pisses me off. Hadn't got anything to do with those bozos. It's got everything to do with whether I did something, whether my team did something, whether we interfaced with our customer in a proper manner, served them, change their life, transform their life so that they tell all their friends do business with Ramsey solutions because we're awesome. Something you never say about the DMV. The thing rises and falls on leadership people. Maxwell says that and he's exactly right. I'm limited. My organization is limited by me. That's the bad news and that's the good news.

Business is not for cissies. Leadership's not for cissies. You got to bring it. It's hard sometimes. It's scary most of the time. But if you'll just lead anyway, if you'll rise up, you'll be amazed at what happens. Organizations are never limited by their team. They're limited by their leader. I often talk to these guys around entree leadership stuff like this, and I run up to me. He goes, well, you don't understand, Dave. You're in a white collar space.

You don't have to deal with a labor pool I got to deal with. You don't understand about my team, Dave. My team's not like your team. Yeah, you know why? You hired them. Worse than that, you kept them. It's your fault. You lowered the standards for the level of humanity you will allow in your organization

and then can't figure out why your customers are pissed off working with people that half but care. I'd rather work it by myself until I can find somebody that cares. It's not your team's fault. It's your fault. You hired them, you kept them. I know this, because I'm. I've done it. I've let folks go and there was this fresh air came into the building because they were so freaking toxic and I was trying to save them. Y'all ever done that?

It's like missionary dating with your daughter. Don't do it. Oh man. When it comes to leadership you must have power but seldom use it. You use your power for other things rather than lashing on people. Positional power does not make you a leader. It makes you a boss. You can tell people what to do because you sign their check, but that doesn't lift up people that operate from dignity who care deeply. You can call them out to excellence and speak vision over them,

and that will change things for them. I can be really in our team's face because I have the trust with them to do that because they know the only reason we're having this discussion is because we all care. We all care about every little day. detail you have experienced so far and you can tell, can't you? Say yes. There's not an accident that happens here. You're walking in a metaphor for what I'm teaching. You're right in the middle of it. You're on the receiving end of it. See, bosses push, leaders pull and the organization moves at the speed of the slowest common denominator. The slowest member of the team holds

everything back when you're lashing from behind. Leaders walk around in front and go, water is this way. Food and nourishment is this way. And the cattle go, and if one doesn't make it, then they don't get to eat. Train's leaving. This train is shiny. You want to be on this train. Train leaves at a certain time. Our trains leave on time around here. We got things to do and people to see. We got people on the other side of this trip that need our help. It's what we do get on the train. I can't make you get on the train, but I can make you stand at the station and watch it drive off if you don't get your button gear. That's a leader. This way. This way. And it always shocks me. Some of them I didn't think are going to make it. They jump on. And some of them that I have about six degrees are standing back

going, where's the helicopter? And they get left. they get left because someone told them they didn't need to toast their toast you got to put the toast in the toaster you got to do the work man you don't get to show up you're not entitled to squat because of your past or your knowledge or your smarts or your beauty

you still got to freaking bring it and I'm always shocked the ones I thought were shiny the ones I thought were going to jump on the train it's so disappointing the ones I loved sometimes I'm not, please run, but I'm not stopping the train. There's too many people on the other end of this, our customers, and this train's not about the people on the train. It's about the people we're serving.

We are blessed at our place, as Father Abraham was, for only one reason that we might be a blessing. And so we're going to be about the business of blessing. So come on. Oh, you're not going to come. So sad. All right, let's go. And the more that happens, the faster you turn and push down on the excessive. and you go faster and faster and faster and faster because a boss from behind you're going to move at the speed of the lowest common denominator

persuasional leadership is much more effective than positional leadership persuasional leadership is you never again show someone what to do without showing them why they're doing it that way they need to know why they didn't know why if they know why then next time they may figure out a better way to do how than you would have done but if all you do is teach people how and they never know the why you constantly

have to watch them you constantly have to worry if they're going to do it right real leadership you know organizational leadership in the community sometimes you think when you first start your company you're like I've got an organization chart and I'm on the top I'm the boss

real leadership is actually the inverse of that. I serve the organization. I'm there to serve them. And sometimes that whole thing is a little heavy. Sometimes it's scary. Sometimes it's hard. But that's my job. That's what God gave me to do. It's what he gave you to do. You're there to serve that organization. Now your team may be three people. It might be eight people, but your job is to serve those people, to cause them to be excellent at what they're doing inside your organization. And and to be with them while they struggle and are having things going on. One of our operating board members is here this week,

but 24 hours ago, our father-in-law was on the operating table having stints put in after an angiogram because he had a heart attack. One of the producers producing this whole thing this week, her dad is facing heart issues that are real serious. We may have to fly her home before. this is over because they're going to have to make some decisions I want to do with him because he's in a mess. We're praying for both of them. Why do I know that? Because it's my job to love them well. It's my job. Now, do I know that about all I hit 150 people? No, but those are

two things that affected this event this week that I'm right in the middle of and the team is all back and forth. We're all serving each other so that we can serve you. That's a really healthy psychological, spiritual model that'll cause you to change the way you do things for the rest of your life. As opposed to, say, leading by fear or anger. That's not leading. That's tyranny. That's a boss.

Now, I got people in our organization because I'm a big loud, wild, man, crazy guy, passionate about what I do, that are all like, oh, I'm scared of him. Now, they're not the ones that work closest with me every day. but it's like, I freaking demand excellence. We don't let up on this. You're going to care and you're going to bring it. Now, it doesn't mean there's no grace.

We all mess up. We all get a chance to learn something the hard way. That's okay. Everyone does that. But, you know, this idea that we're just going to go, oh, in the name of being nice, everyone gets to suck. No, it's not serving either. But that's also not fear and anger.

I'm not yelling at them and cussing at them. them and if they're afraid of me it's more their personal issue or the issue of they're afraid they're not going to be able to bring excellence because let me tell you the marketplace will fire me if I don't bring excellence and it's brutal it doesn't care about my feelings so we either bring it or we get whooped you all with me and I won't get whooped so I'm not mad I live with a healthy sense of desperation for excellence and everyone around us does too and you can call that out in people you can speak that without it being fear and anger

some people in their own little snowflake place can't deal with that I understand that that's okay you don't need to work for us because this is who we are we are playing for the Super Bowl and you better do the wait room we're playing for the Super Bowl and you better make the team meeting we're playing for the Super Bowl and you better do your film work we're playing for the Super Bowl so act like it This is what we do. That's not fear and anger.

That's speaking vision. And that's a different process. Your message needs to pull your team together, not pull them apart. You're not trying to drive wedges in them. I met this guy one time and he was like, had this great management plan that he was going to figure out a way to have all of his teams competing against each other in a toxic way where they hated each other. And that was going to motivate them.

I'm like, well, you can motivate with hate if you want, but it's a short-term play. Because what's going to happen is that talent, as soon as they get a chance, they're going to hit eject. Talent doesn't put up with that crap. People that are good, solid people of character who are smart and get things done, they don't put up with that garbage.

So your message needs to pull your team together, not drive wedges among them. And so you can't play, misbehave in personal life, and it not show up. We just saw a beautiful rendition of that in the last few weeks. How many of you were in spot? fired by Tiger Woods.

Wow. Tiger Woods, the man, returned first and grew his character. Then his golf game came back. Don't miss that. Don't miss that. That's what happened. The same guy that hugged his daddy

was hugged by his own son. The man grew up. And then the golf game came back. That's not a number. accident. That's a cause and effect relationship. So when you have stuff going on at the top, you've got an organization and one of your leaders is misbehaving in their personal life and you can't figure out why store sales are down. Well, it ain't rocket science, baby. Whatever happens on the head of the organization drips on to the rest of the organization.

Hope you enjoyed that. Okay, I told you that we're going to give you the after interview, you, if you will. We have an amazing part of our summit event where the speakers come off the live stage onto essentially a television set and we broadcast live on Facebook and so throughout Summit we're going to give you some of those conversations

that happened on what we call the live from Summit stage. This is Dave Ramsey and I talking after he exited the stage. This is the live from Summit stage at 2019 Summit in beautiful San Diego.

Diego, California, and we're so excited. We have an absolutely electric crowd here in the room, and this is a packed out room, and then we got another, what is a couple thousand upstairs. I mean, it's unbelievable. So we are having big fun, and we're going to have a little conversation with Dave. Of course, you saw him lead us off this morning with an incredible talk to really set the next three days. And Dave, I love the theme. I think it's such a classic leadership theme, rising tides, lift all ships. We have so many people. I was looking at the demographics here of so many people that are in family business and so many small business leaders. And I'm just curious to go back to the early days of Lampo and now Ramsey Solutions.

Can you take us to a moment where you remember key people, key leaders around you as you begin to grow that really lifted you as you were trying to be that entrepreneur, but also the face of the organization and the brand? and what that means to bring in key people early on to lift you to those next stages. You know, the first thing I figured out was I couldn't do all the work by myself. And so I need somebody else to work. And then we got like 10 of those. And I was so dumb that I thought it was just automatically happen. And so we had 10 people working.

And you're in a small business. Everybody's doing everything. Everybody's got like six jobs. And I suddenly realized that I cared. more. And then I had people tell me, you know, well, you can't, you know, employees are on payroll. They're never going to care, which is absolutely wrong. I mean, lots of people are employees that care. But some of them I had cared, but not all of them and not all the time. And so I started realizing we needed to put people in leadership roles. And I started going, right now I think I'm just a boss.

And I'm not even a really good boss. And so I've got to start learning. And I'm, I started reading like a maniac and consuming people like John Maxwell and people like Jim Collins and Henry Cloud and Pat Langeoni. Some of the people we got speaking this week, they later became friends, obviously. But I had to have new information, because if you keep doing the same thing over and over again, you expect a different result.

That's the definition of insanity. And so I had to have a new way of seeing things in order to do things different. I think anybody that's listened to you for any amount, of time has heard you say that we've got a policy at Ramsey Solutions and you just did it a couple weeks ago in staff meeting where you said hey there are big things happening great momentum and if your heart's not here please leave and then you went today and I think sometimes yeah you did you paused and you said today and you were serious you can be here's what I want you to address I think everybody

gets that when you hear that right you appreciate what Dave saying you go that's great but then what happens Dave if they actually say okay I'm gone I think there's a lot of fear in someone going all right, that's a good point. I'm going to actually do what you told me to do, and it's not the end of the world, right? Oh, yeah, because it'd be the end of the world if they stayed. Because people that don't care, you know what they cause, more people that don't care.

People are mailing it in, you know what they call? More people that are mailing it in. People who are toxic and hate the boss and hate the leadership and distrust the organization. You know what they breed? More people that hate the boss and are toxic and distrust the organization. They don't breed excellence. They don't cause the people.

You become who you hang around. with. And if the people you're hanging around with are running down the company that gives you money all the time, you need new friends or a new company. You need to get out because it's disloyal as crud. And it's just wrong. So we just tell our people that all the time. HR hates it when I do this because it means they've got to go hiring again. But it's so much easier to do the work with eight people that care than it is 12 and four of them don't. It's so much easier. It's so much more productive. It's so much more fun to come to work. It's more fun for the customer because they don't get a one-and-four shot at dealing with a duphus.

You know? And you go, well, it's only a 25% ratio. Yeah, but you want to take that shot? I mean, is this Russian roulette of business? How are we doing this? No. I don't want to die at the hand of this. But the first time or two somebody leaves, it hurts your feelings.

Especially if you got, like, how many of you guys have 10 or fewer team members? Yeah. I mean, if you have two people leave, that's like a 50% reduction in staff. You know, a 25% reduction in staff. It's a big deal. You're like, how the crap, we're going to get the work done. And what you'll figure out real quick is, A, they can be replaced, and B, they weren't doing that much work anyway.

Because they quit caring. And it's like, you think they're going to leave a gaping hole and you hardly notice they're gone. And it's because their time was done. When your spirit leaves, for God's sakes, take your butt with it. Yeah, but Dave, I totally agree with you about the culture thing, but the bad person, the bad seed is a huge part of our reverend. So, Dave, I think you're right.

But if I fire him or I tell them to leave and they leave, we won't make it long enough for the culture to get healthy. That's what a lot of people are feeling right now. Yeah, I used to think you have those insecurities. You always do. I'm probably still having just a little bit. But number one, I've got decades of doing this and seeing the result be positive. Number two, it's a larger organization now. So it's one of 857 people I think will probably keep going.

You know, so it's like, you can't live without me. Yeah, by lunch. And so, you know, and I'm not quitting, so, you know, see you. But I think the thing is that it's normal to feel that insecurity. It's normal to go, how are we going to replace this person? They're bringing in the money. They're bringing in this. They're the one getting the work down.

I've got one developer. Now, how are we going to get anything done on the web when I get rid of this developer that's toxic? And what you'll find out is that the secret source of success inside your business is never that one person or what they do. It's always the mission. It's always your leadership. It's always the thing that brought you to do it in the first place. That's the secret sauce. You are the secret sauce.

What we're talking about this morning in that lesson is you're the cause, you're the effect, you're the solution, you're the problem, all that kind of thing. And so, you know, I used to think, gosh, if I lost this person that was so talented, how will you ever be able to do this? And I'm a drama queen, so I do that inside my own head. I play these negative tapes, you know, inside my head. And then it's almost as if God is chuckling.

And he goes, well, what were you doing the week before you hired them? Well, you do the week after. Not quitting. Got stuff to do. We have 60 seconds. Prepare those that are watching online and those that are here in the room. We're so intentional about this event. So intentional.

I mean, we think of everything. And there's a reason. What do you want their hearts and heads to do over the next three days? Don't just watch. one way and see what's going on. This is an experiential event. Experience it. Experience the breaks, experience the connection of the person sitting at your table, experience going to lunch with someone while you're here that you never met before, but that you can learn from, or they can learn from you or both. Experience this event. Yes, there's going to be world-class folks delivering.

It's going to be absolutely incredible. I mean, the lineup is bar none the best. It's absolutely stellar, but it's more than just a content production. This thing, small business people, we love each other naturally. We can't keep from it. Even those of you that don't agree on whatever, you agree on one thing. You like to win in business. And that's a common ground. All right, let's go back to our live from Summit stage, where I had the opportunity to interview Dr. Henry Cloud and Pat Lynch-eoney. Here are those conversations. Why is it so difficult for leaders in general to deal with conflict in a meeting, one-to-one, whatever the situation may be. The quick answer is because they're humans.

Yeah, of course. What is it about people that finds conflict? Has it always been this way? Well, it wasn't this way in the Garden of Eden, but since then it has been that way. Because everybody after the Garden of Eden has a belly button, right? Which means you came from the human race, and you came from families, and they had ways of facing conflict or not facing it or avoiding it. And then we all have this basic orientation towards a fear response. And so fear responses always end up in a couple things. You know, you fight or

flight. You get hostile in a conflict or you pull away from it or you freeze. And none of those work. And so that's the problem. And so you hear that from a psychologist. That's the human nature. And here you are teaching corporations. You're sitting with them. You're going, hey, you've got to be comfortable in conflict. So the question. is you tell them that how long does it take for an organization because you say you've got to repeat repeat repeat as far as a leadership practice of communicating but what about practicing this idea of open conflict open communication let's get real yeah and I don't know the theory I love listening to you Henry because I love to learn the underpinnings of this but what we try to do when

we work with executive teams is give them baby steps we say hey we're going to teach you how to disagree and to be more vulnerable in little ways first and bring them along and that seems to be a big help because if we just start with like go it's really difficult well one of the things i love about what you do is is you start with them starting to open up about themselves a little bit with a simple question you know about their life or whatever and the thing you have to remember is that humans every second down to the billionth of a second their whole system is asking one question am i safe you ask it when you breathe the next air you ask it when you and if something comes up that doesn't make you feel safe, you're moving away, right? And so to start with the basic most important thing

is when somebody feels understood, then their whole system lets down. So to get them talking so other people can for the first time listen and try to understand where this person's coming from, they begin to lean in. Same thing a hostage negotiator does. You don't walk in, you know, when the guy is strapped to a bomb and say, dude, this is a bad idea. You know, and talk them out of it, they start to talk to them. You know, how do we get here today? Tell me what's going on. Both of you came to leadership, training, and development from different backgrounds personally

and then professionally. But you both are in your own unique ways, always consulting, teaching, guiding leaders, creating content for leaders. Just curious, each of you answer this, what do you love most? And I'm going to make you choose. I know that's hard to do, but give me top one or two things you love most about working with leaders and leadership. organizations. I love watching the aha moments go off. I love watching a leader see themselves as a human

being and realize the impact that they have on others and get flooded with positive and with constructive things and receive it well and feel like they're a different person. So I love that aha moment when they realize this is actually safe and good for me to do this. That's probably my favorite moment. Yeah, I would say the same thing. When you know, when you see leaders step into that space of real vulnerability, then you see the lights going because we weren't created and designed to be walled off and fighting the outside world.

And when they step into that space and they allow and engage other people to do that, the whole room just goes to a different level and everybody becomes more of their abilities. And it's just the coolest moment, you know, to get to do that. You know, somebody reminded me of this today. We assume that leaders are leading the way they want, to be leading. We're like, well, they do that. That must be like everybody lives intentionally.

And I would say there's very few leaders that are actually leading in the way. So when you give them new insights, it really makes a difference. And yet when you're in that situation and your leader is doing something, you think, well, she or he is doing this on purpose. And so that must be the way they want to lead. Which is the same assumption they make with the people they're struggling with. Absolutely. And they don't take that step to try to realize that person, that you're on the other side of the conflict with, that person really does have more to them than they're giving you. It's your job to be able to make a path for them to give you more. Yeah. I mean, it's crazy how we assume that things are fixed. Let's talk about that.

Let's stay there for a moment. We have people that are watching, and we're not going to singly out, but you're sitting here going, you know what, I know that I'm not leading well, whether intentionally or not intentionally. And I know my people must know that, and I'm here, and I want some breakthrough. That's why I'm here. And they've got to go back and begin the process of changing. What's the first thing? Because it can be really intimidating. What's the first thing from a vulnerability or transparency action that these leaders would take in your mind? Let me give you a simple little tool. You know how a boat, when it goes across the lake, it leaves a wake behind in two sides. Leadership is always about leaders leave a wake in every meeting, in everything they go through.

they leave a wake behind them and the wake has two sides. The results they're getting and the relationships that they're creating. So just do this. Invite that person, your team member, invite them to lunch and say, look, I'm working on my leadership and I've understood that a leader leaves a wake. You're in my wake. What's it like to be on the other side of me? Just ask them that question, say, I'm not here to argue or defend me.

I just want to learn what's it like to be on the other side of me. how am I helping you or hindering you from getting good results? And what's it like relationally to be on the other side of my leadership? It's an act of vulnerability, and if they step into that, then you would have modeled something good, but you would have really learned something about yourself. Yeah, as I'm listening to this, I'm applying it to me. I'm thinking about that conversation I want to have with the people I lead.

And I'm thinking about the fact that if I'm not open to being vulnerable, which really is open to being humbled, which is part of being humiliated. I mean, we don't grow unless we experience that. And I think that in life today, most people are like, as long as I don't have to suffer or be humiliated, I'm willing to do just about anything, which means we're not going to do very much.

So I thought about that question. Like, I can't wait to go talk to somebody about that. Ooh, that's going to be hard. And I have to lean into that, you know. Just think about somebody's Instagram. How many humiliating pictures do they put? post. It's just not what we do, right? I know. So be a humiliated leader. There you go.

Totally. Isn't that crazy? It is. Well, you know, Henry, in your talk, you talked about, called yourself a slugger and you gave us the real definition of a slugger. They're doing things, but they're avoiding pain. To do what you both just described is pain. You're putting yourself in a pain situation, but is it a good pain if we handle it the way that you talked about? It's like working out. I know that if I go bench press tomorrow, which I haven't done in several months, months, two days later, I'm going to be in some severe pain, but if I keep up with it, I'm going to grow. Is it that type of good pain so we can see that?

You said a great phrase, good pain. There's no such thing as a life without pain. We can't choose a life without pain, but we can choose what kind of pain we're going to have. So when we're working on ourselves, you know, if you've got an issue and you're experiencing all this pain and this patterns and it keeps going on, that's painful. But that's not helpful pain because that'll just keep going. The other kind of pain you can choose is the good pain, which is the pain of doing a little suffering in that moment, working on yourself, but that leads to a path with no more of the bad pain.

We can't choose a painless life, but we can't choose what kind of pain we're going to have. Alan Mullalley is the guy who turned forward around, a great guy. And he and I had a, he came in my office and we had a conversation one day. And he's like this, how do he do the meets Buzz Lightyear? I don't know what he is. He's a leader, and he's like the sweetest guy. And I said to him one day, I said, you know, being a leader, it's one of my books I talk about, it's, it's, it's, it's, and he said, I don't think so. I think it's a privilege. And I said, you got to meet people today. They're not in the 1950s. They're not, you know, he was this amazing, so many leaders go into leadership because they want to be praised, but they don't want to suffer. And it's, well, he and I had a good conversation about it, because every once in while you meet a guy like him who just thinks, well, it's all a privilege. But in most of the leaders I work with today, they weren't raised to suffer for the sake of other. others. And if you're not willing to suffer for others, you can't be a great leader. And it's

countercultural. Well, that's where passion comes from, right? The root word of passion is suffering. Are you willing to suffer in order to do what you want to do? So if you really want to lead men and women, you're going to have to suffer in order for that great privilege to lead. Okay, we're going to keep bringing you some goodness from Summit. We're calling it our Summit backstage pass. This is going to give you access to lessons from our 2019 summit. So if you have it registered for this, make sure you register for the summit backstage pass. You'll get three free lessons from the event, Dave's opening keynote, Chris Hogan's keynote, and my keynote on the proximity principle. We're also going to include a bonus lesson with our senior leaders that

were on site at summit. This includes Daniel Tarty, our executive vice president of business and Leadership and Sarah Sloyan, our Senior Vice President of Entree Leadership. You'll also get a downloadable guide to follow along with the keynotes and access to a community of other leaders who are joining in online. There's only one way to get these full lessons from Summit without being here at the event to get your backstage pass text backstage pass. All one phrase, so there's no spaces there. Backstage pass, you're going to text that phrase to 3.3.4.

444, or we've got the link for you in this episode's show notes. Well, it has been a phenomenal day. More goodness coming your way from beautiful sunny San Diego. On behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thank you so very much for listening. We'll talk with you again tomorrow. Tomorrow, tomorrow, I'll be here tomorrow. you're only a day away.