EntreLeadership - #322: How to Advance Your Career with The Proximity Principle with Ken Coleman

Episode Date: May 13, 2019

The average person spends more than 90,000 hours in their lifetime at work, which is why it’s so alarming that 70% of American workers report being unhappy with their jobs. Even if you love what you do, you can’t ignore the statistical likelihood that at least one of those disgruntled people is on your team. But, luckily, Ramsey Solutions’ own Ken Coleman insists it doesn’t have to be that way. And his against-the-odds breakthrough into broadcasting is all the proof we need. Tune in as Ken breaks down the Proximity Principle, his proven strategy to help all of us find a career we’re passionate about.   entreleadership.com/podcast Buy the book: The Proximity Principle Download a free chapter from The Proximity Principle Ken Coleman's website The Ken Coleman Show Episode #245: Ken Coleman—6 Stages of Self-Discovery   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

You will be able to overcome fear and doubt. You will make sure that you will always be in a place where opportunity can find you if you practice the proximity principle. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Entree Leadership. Now here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders by leaders for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. Here's what we got coming up today.

Oh, my goodness, look you here. The Proximity Principle, the book that I wrote, been telling you a little bit about. We're so excited that it is finally here. That's our feature conversation, Daniel Tarty, who was a good friend and our executive vice president of business and leadership. Turns the tables on me like we did last year on episode 245. You're going to get to hear about the Proximity Principle. I spoke about this at the Entree Leadership Summit, excited about how it's going to help so much. people move to where they want to be in their career to do work that matters greatly to them.

All right, let's get to it. So why did I write the proximity principle? Because I have observed that many people are afraid to try to advance up the ladder or they have doubts that they can actually climb the ladder. Fear and doubt hold so many people back. If you're looking for opportunity and opportunity hasn't found you, the secret is to practice the proximity principle where opportunity will seek you out. It works. I used it. And so have men and women throughout history. Here is my conversation with Daniel Tarty about the proximity principle.

Today, I get to ask all the questions. We've done this once before and we had fun with it. So we thought, well, what the heck? Let's try it again. Yeah, this is exciting. So you've got a brand new book out. I love this book, by the way. I personally, as I thought about your book and looking through the concepts in the book, I'm like, oh my gosh, I have been a direct beneficiary of everything you talk about in this. book. Like, I go back through my own story. I'm like, it's the proximity principle all the way through. Well, I think you model it. There's no question about it. And you see, there it is. There's the big reveal. This is a very practical and helpful book, but the concept itself, nothing new. This is a tried and true principle that has been evident from the dawn of man. And we say that on the subtitle, which is this is the proven strategy. So I'm glad you put it that way because I'm excited to put language on it with the proximity principle itself, but this stuff really, really works. And what's

funny about it, Daniel, is that as people begin to see it and read it, there's a lot of aha moments as I'm doing other podcasts. I've done this. I've done this. And that's really encouraging to me because I know that when readers actually grab it, this isn't Ken Coleman's theory. This is proven throughout history that if you put yourself around the right people and in the right places, opportunity will actually find you. You're not out there searching for this in-law. opportunity that you can't find. I used to have a distorted understanding of the proximity principle. Oh. I used to think, okay, if I can just meet this guy who's influential and pitch him, if I can meet him at the mall and just cold clock him and go, hey, hey, hey, hey, I can't believe I just met you, right?

And I would get so confused that I would come all the way to like, can we get married in a relationship, and people would walk and never call back, and I would follow up and they wouldn't return my calls. And so, you know, networking has a bad rap. It's a cheesy. There's a stigma because there's that young Daniel Tarty in every networking group who doesn't get it. It all hinges on relationships and it takes time. And even if I can pitch you the best opportunity in the world, if it's not personal, and if I'm not prepared through a relationship where trust is built and report and help distinguish between the,

if I could just touch the hymn of their garment and getting in proximity. And when you are in proximity, you find yourself in a room where that influence there is. there. How do you not blow the shot by going too far too fast? Because I've done that. Yeah. So I write about this in the book. This is one of the four practices, how to be audacious, but not obnoxious. And I write this from my own personal story. This is a very humiliating story that I share in the book. But when you were describing yourself, I'm pointing at me going, the reason I wrote that in the book is because I blew it so often because I am a natural self-promoter. Okay. So, you know, I believe in myself. I'm confident. And I was that guy.

early on. And what I like to equate it to is imagine going out on a date with a guy or a gal. Okay. So if you're a lady and you're listening, picture going out on a date with a guy or guys, if you're going out. And I mean like you're 20 minutes into dinner. You just ordered the appetizers and you're asking her to consider marrying you. Or that seems absurd to you, but let's go less absurd, but still absurd. You're going, you start talking about all the qualities in a woman that you need to marry. Or you're just ratcheting up the conversation so quickly. And she's going, whoa. Like, I don't even know if I like you. And so that's what you're talking about. And so we talk about it in the book. So here's audacious. You need to grab the power of these two words.

Audacious is great. Most people aren't audacious. Abnoxious is awful. It's always going to be turn off. And so the difference between audacious and obnoxious is simply this. Audacity. To be audacious is to put yourself out there for the request to connect, not to network. Don't ever go to another networking event the rest of your life. Yes, I said that because everybody at the networking event is there for them. When you go one to one to somebody and the whole intent from the invitation from you starts out with, hey, I respect you. On some level, many levels, you're where I want to be. I'd like to take your most valuable commodity of your time, but I want to make it worth it because I want to ask you several questions, get your insight, get some direction from you,

and so would you be willing to do that? Now, let me tell you something. You lead that way, that's audacious. But there's nothing in that that is obnoxious because the response to that is going to be, let me see if I can find time, even if I'm crazy busy because I feel honored. And people say, well, Ken, how do I connect with somebody and provide them value? What I just said was the value proposition. Nobody feels any more value than you. And when you say to them, I admire you, I want to be you on some level. Right. And because of that, I'd like your advice and insight.

Now, here's the asterisk to that. I've had people do that with me. And so I go, I like, I'm in. I feel valued. Absolutely. I'll give of my time because you value me. Great. I'm there.

Then the guy shows up and spends the entire time pitching me. So wait a way, wait, wait, wait. You didn't ask me any question. Yeah, it's a bait and switch. Yeah, now that's obnoxious. And let me tell you something, now I'm the Heisman Trophy. Right. Boom.

Out. Yes. Hey, here's a pro tip. I know you've used this. If you're having a hard time connecting on the influencer that you really feel like you need to be in proximity with, I was at this thing this other night, and I won't say who it is, but everybody is, this person is known by millions of people. My wife and I are there.

It's a small group setting. Well, this guy has a photo line. And you know who didn't have a photo line? the guy that works with him, his is number two. And I spent the whole time building a relationship. Keep going in a relationship with them.

He's used to, I'm the number two, everyone goes in text photos. He's invisible. He's invisible. You build a relationship with that guy and you figure out what his biggest problem is and how you can help solve it and how you can build.

You know who gets to Dave Ramsey around here? Not people who go find Dave Ramsey. People who build a relationship with his team and they add value. And so sometimes your proximity isn't straight to the most important person in the company as your starting point. You got to start with who are the influencers and the people that are used to being invisible,

but guess what? They don't have a photo line and they're available. And you build those relationships and you don't do it so that they're stepping stones. You don't do it just so you can get to the guy. By the way, because they smell that a mile away. This is so good. I don't know if this is if what I'm about to say is any good, but you inspired it. So right here, this is real time. This is the law of the gatekeeper. Okay. The law of the gatekeeper says that the person you actually want to get to never opens up the gate. So the person that you think you want to get to, they don't open up their own gate. Ever. There's always somebody there that's going to give you access. It's the law of the gatekeeper. I want to work on that, but that's really, really good. And while you said it,

I've worked for John Maxwell for a law. But you turned it into a law. Well, and hey, I want to talk about the law of the zip code because that's the only law in this book. Okay, let's go there. Do you know about the law of the zip code? I was reading about it. And I think if there's anything our people get, there's this myth, right? Okay, well, it'd be nice. And if I lived in New York City, I could be in proximity to everybody important. Or if I lived in L.A. Or if I, but you're saying you don't have to get to the big place where all the fancy people are. You can start in your own zip code.

You don't have to move somewhere to go somewhere. Okay? You don't have to move zip codes in order to move up the ladder in your career. Now, this is to get started. And an example of this, I had a guy calling my radio show a couple months ago from Charlotte, North Carolina. And he started off the phone call by saying, hey, Ken, I know exactly what I want. to do, but I don't think I can get there. I don't think it's possible, but I need your insight. I said, wow, great. What is it that you want to do? He says, I want to be in producing and directing

videos, short movies, all this kind of stuff, movies. I've always wanted to do it. I did it in college. But now I'm in Charlotte, North Carolina. I got three kids, two dogs, a wife, and a mortgage, and I can't move to L.A. or New York. And I said to this guy, I said, let's say his name is Craig. And I said, Craig, how many production companies do you think are in Charlotte, North Carolina? And there was a pause. And then he chuckled just like you did because he knew exactly what I was saying. And I just filled the silence with, how many do you think there are? Just take a stab.

He goes, oh, at least a couple dozen. I go, at least. And then I went on to say, Craig, when you're watching TV tonight, okay, whatever show you watch when the local commercials come on. We all know the local commercials, right? It's the guy selling mortgages or injury lawyer. They're largely awful commercials. Well, I'm not trying to be unkind, but there's a local production company that got paid pretty well to produce that commercial for the injury lawyer. That injury lawyer is making a ton of money, and he's running ads all the time.

Politicians, when they run for office, you see political ads. You think any local ad, now think about all the local companies in Charlotte, North Carolina that have video content on their website. Now, some of them are using maybe national production companies, but largely they're probably using Charlotte production companies. So I make this point to the guy and I said, here's a deal. You need to practice proximity. Proximity principle says in order to do what you want to do, that's video production directing, get around people that are doing it and in places where it's happening. So you go find some local production companies, see if you got a connection.

Do you know somebody that knows somebody that knows somebody? And you go sit down and you go ahead of lunch and say, hey, I did this in college. I did it for a while. I'm now here. I'd like to transition from this career into your space. Hey, just ear to the ground. Hey, if something opens up in the future, hey, but do you know any other production companies that you admire that you would recommend. And you do this and you practice proximity.

And I said, I'm telling you, if you stay with it long enough, you're going to find a great production job in Charlotte, North Carolina. I kid you not. And by the way, this is very rare that it works this quickly. I'm not selling microwaves. I'm selling crock pots. Eight weeks later, I got an email to the show's email address, and he had landed a job. Wow. So he was thinking that he had to move to Los Angeles in New York, and here's where the law of the zip code comes in. I wanted you to hear the story first so you could understand the law. The law of the zip code says that everything you need to get started is already around you. You just took away all my excuses. Well, I'm just telling you, I don't care what the career is.

But don't you think some people go, well, yeah, I can't do my dream job because, you know, I have to move. Of course, you know, we can't move. We talk ourselves out with fear. We have to find a logical reason in our mind is rational to go, why, if I, you nailed it. Well, it's just not practical. Well, I'm going to have to, my dream's going to die. It tears me up. It's killing me. I'm depressed about it. But I'm a smart guy and it's just crazy to pursue the dream because if I, if I moved to New York and we all starve and we become homeless, I'm an idiot. So actually me, not pursuing the dream is really smart. This is what happens. We talk ourselves into the safe, smart decision. And it's like, I don't care what career it is.

Okay. Or let's just say for somebody who's happy in their career, but you want to move up and you go, I can't move up where I am. That's not true. That is simply not true. There's always something you can learn, something you can do, and with somebody you can connect. And if you learn and you do and you connect intentionally,

you get up the next day and you learn, do, do, and connect. And then the next day and you learn, do, connect. Let me tell you what's going to happen. Opportunity comes to your door. and when you least expect it, by the way. And when that happens, then you go, whoa, and it gets really addictive. And then if you practice it long enough, it's no longer the proximity principle. It's just the way you live.

Second nature. This is what I'm trying to give to people is a way of thinking and doing. And if you think and do with a proximity mindset, I'm not saying that you're not going to have struggles. I'm not going to say that you're not going to have. seasons of rejection and fear and doubt, and all those aren't going to completely disappear. But let me tell you something, you will be able to overcome fear and doubt. You will make sure that you will always be in a place where opportunity can find you if you practice the proximity principle. You were telling me that this principle came to you, or I guess it was crystallized

in your mind. You were sitting on your deck and you were thinking about your own story. And I know our listeners are used to hearing you and you're asking the questions, but talk about your story and how you got from, you know, where you were in college to now you're in your dream job. You're in your sweet spot. You talk about the sweet spot all the time. But the proximity, you're looking back on your own story and you're going, it's the proximity principle. Yeah. Say more about that. Yeah, it's absolutely right. So the moment you're talking about was probably the defining moment in my journey from small business owner who thought he was going to run for office, political office, to broadcaster, starting out with.

with no connections, at least I thought so, no degree in broadcasting and no experience in broadcasting. How do you switch mountains like that and scale that mountain? It's really intimidating. And so the moment you're talking about is I'm on my back patio in Atlanta, Georgia, I'm running a small business, and I'm probably about a year and a half to two years into trying to pursue broadcasting on the side. And I'm in a season of rejection, a season of doubt and I'm having a pity party with a cup of coffee by myself on a spring morning. It was an April morning and I'm sitting out there and the only thing I could hear were my negative thoughts and the birds. And I'm sitting there reflecting and I don't know if you or our listeners

have ever been to a point where you get so low in your mind that the only thing you can do is actually look up. Like you stop looking around at how low you are and all the negative that you're there for a moment. And then, it gets to the point where it's so ridiculous that even you realize how ridiculously negative you are. And I believe it was the Holy Spirit. I'll be very candid about that. But I just had a moment of realization, Daniel, where I could get out of my own pity party and stop being a human eor and go, you're here because of you. Wow. And it was in that moment that I realized that nobody is sitting around thinking about how they can help Ken Coleman get his dream job. That was the thought.

Right now, on this planet, nobody is sitting around going, Ken Coleman, what can I do to help that guy get his dream job in broadcasting? And it's absurd. And if you think about it, but that was the thought that woke me up. And I said, you know what? I keep kind of sitting around. I'll do a little bit of activity here. I'll go make a pitch here. I'll do this. I'll do this. And if it doesn't go my way, I just kind of sit and sulk for three weeks or four. And I'm wasting time. And if it's to be, it is going to be up to me. And I'm going to have to actually start getting really, really intentional, not sporadic.

Throw this, though, this, and hope somebody goes, yeah, Ken, you're awesome. I'll give you a shot. And I realize that I may have to create my own platform. I might have to build the very platform from which I'm going to jump off and fly. And so that's where I got intentional that day to say, who are the people? that I need to get around, that can teach me what I need to know, not just teach me what I need to know, but also say, hey, I'm willing to teach you, and if you do what I teach you,

this is going to work, and I'm willing to connect you to other people who might teach you, and these are the places you need to get in. So I'll tell you what, I can't teach you, but I know somebody who can or I know a place you need to be in. So who are the people and the places that I needed to be around and be in? And when I begin to identify that, it was just weeks after that moment on the patio, Daniel, I signed up for a broadcasting class with a local TV and radio producer.

And I was the first student, unbeknownst to me. I heard the ad on the radio, and I thought this thing had been around forever. It sounded so great because he was a professional. And so he produces this ad. I hear it on the radio, and I call the guy, go see him. And he goes, just so you know, you're the first person to actually respond to the ad. I go, oh. And even then I was like, okay, this dude's impressive.

I was in his studios. It was clear that he was a successful guy. And he said, well, I've got other people that are interested, but you're the first one to come to say, hey, I want to learn more. So it ended up being eight other young guys, and I showed up at 31 and took this broadcasting class, and it was week three before all the other young dudes in their early 20s knew that I wasn't an instructor. They thought I was an instructor. And those were humble moments, but I can look back to stepping into that first class as something that it was the right place.

And I got in the place to learn, and that's one of the places in the book. And I got in the place to learn, and I got around a professor, this guy, Jeff Badden, who could teach me what I needed to know and was willing to teach me. And I can tell you that some of the things I do now that are almost thoughtless, they're habitual activities when I'm on air, when I'm on a stage, when I am crafting content or editing or thinking through what piece needs to happen here on the show, how does this go together? Everything that is a fundamental form of broadcasting, I learned in that little six-week broadcasting school and also met a ton of great people that led to other great opportunities and other great people. So it was that moment that proximity became a very powerful

thing for me. I didn't know what it was called. I didn't come up with the principal until about a year ago in the car, as it would be. But here's what I want people to understand. You've heard me talk just a little bit about it. I want to pause and give you one thought here. As you've heard all this, proximity to the right people and the right places positions me where I need to be and propels me to where I want to be. That's really good. I promise it does. Yeah. So don't overcomplicate the journey.

That's what it did for me. It took the fear and doubt and it kind of hushed it because I was like, well, I'm afraid of this. I doubt this, but I do know this. I can identify the right people and I can identify the right places. I can also get around them. What happens then, okay, I don't know what's going to happen, but I know that's a good move.

And inevitably, it just propels you. So anyway, that's where it all started. That's really good. I want to come back to the rest of your journey. But first, I want to go back to something you said, when you were in that moment where you were at the bottom and all you can do is look up, it occurs to me the proximity principle doesn't work until you're taking full responsibility for where you are. Absolutely. Isn't it amazing how much clarity comes when you go, this is all my fault? I'm here because of me.

Well, yeah, because the actual principle itself, a principle is another word for truth. This isn't true to your point until you decide to use it. So this book is worthless to you. The principle is worthless. You can hear me say it, but until you believe it and then act on it. So here's what I know about human behavior. We as human beings will not act on something we don't believe. We just won't.

Let me give an example. If you're a dad and you've ever had a kid jump in the pool for the first time to you, you've seen it. There are a couple kids that just go, oh, dad's there. I'm going to jump. Most kids are kind of like, ooh, I don't know, dad. And what are we saying as parents? Promise you, I'll catch you.

Daddy's going to catch you. I promise. I'm going to catch you. I'm going to catch you. I'm going to catch you. And when the kid decides to trust and believe that dad is going to catch me, then the kid jumps in the pool, not until they believe that dad's going to catch them. And so to your point, proximity will work for you, but only when you believe that it

will work and then you act on it to say, all right, I'm going to put this into action. It's really a habitual activity that the successful men and women do it without even thinking about it. They're just always scanning. Who are the people I need to be around? You do. You're always scanning. Whether it be a book, a podcast.

a YouTube speech, you're always going, who do I need to be listening to or reading from? Who do I need to be around that way? And what places do I need to be in? And as a leader, a place could be, hey, and we talk about this in the book, a place to grow. You've got to be in a place where you are in a situation where either you grow or you fail.

You understand what I'm saying? So it's an intentional act. So I want to help our listeners bring our world kind of down to, let's call it mainstream, because I think it's easy for our listeners to look at us and go, yeah, you're on the Ramsey platform, and you and I have had the privilege of meeting presidents and the equivalent of kings of our days. Sure.

CEOs of major companies and green rooms and on stages, you've interviewed countless of celebrities that anybody would know. As a listener to this podcast, I go, well, that's great. Glad you looked out. Glad you got their tardy. Glad you got their kin. And proximity principle in my story, I go back to. to, yeah, I'm enjoying the blessings of that now

in an association with Dave, but I didn't get to know Dave if it weren't for Jack Galloway. I didn't get to know Jack Galloway. I started going back upstream, and there's this guy named Joe Levitt, who we love, that we met through church, and we developed a relationship,

and he saw something to me that he recommended me, and by degrees, you connect with more and more people. And so it's not just, here's a kid out of Lubbock, Texas, two generations off the cotton farm, and then boom, meeting with some of the top leaders in our world, right? And your story, I know you've had similar,

who is the Joe Levitt in your story? When you think back, there's these henchpin people. You meet somebody and they make a connection and you're forever grateful because it led to this downstream and all of a sudden you're... Yeah, well, there's so many people in my life, but I think of a guy named Gabe Lyon, so I went to college with.

And the very first time I ever got to do an interview was because of proximity. And the story, the short version is because I actually want to come back to something you said so that people understand this. I am working for John Maxwell at the time. I am writing the interview for a well-known major league baseball play-by-play guy to do the interview for a Maxwell simulcast with Coach K. And the guy didn't have time to do the interview. He was just going to conduct it. We wanted to have a sports guy to interview a sports legend. And so I do the research. I read his book Leading with the Heart backward and forward and I write the interview

because I love Coach K and I love, you know, the whole story there of his journey. And I said, I'll do it if you guys let me go. So I got to tag along if I did the interview prep. Two days before we were going down to Durham, North Carolina to do the interview, we get a call from that Major League Baseball, Play-by-Play guy, says, hey, guys, we had a rainout last week. Major League Baseball scheduled the rainout on this day, the day off, that I was going to do this for you.

I can't do anything about it. And so we're in a panic. And Gabe Lyons, who's in the leadership team, says, I'm sorry, he wasn't on the leadership. He had left the company, and he was a consultant, He was one of my good friends. He was also a friend of Kevin Small, the CEO. And he says in a conversation that I was not in. He says, Coleman did the interview.

He wrote this thing. I've looked at it. It's a great interview on paper. Coleman can put two sentences together. I think he can do it. Let's have him do it. And the rest is history. That was your shot.

First interview I ever did was a Hall of Famer. So you hear that and you go, oh, wait a second. That's just crazy luck. Is it? No. Let's back that up. Let's hit the rewind button for a second. So I volunteered to write the interview to do the inglorious prep work that nobody would ever know that my hand was on that interview.

Nobody, except my handful of friends and they don't even care, right? They're not impressed with that. So I volunteer to put myself in that situation. So I get in proximity to that interview and I say, hey, I'll do this. I'll volunteer to do this and do the prep, but I want to go too, right? And that brought the whole thing to a possibility. So how did you give yourself the, like you're grinding in that season, right, without the promise of getting to do the interview? Oh, yeah.

So fortune, chance, God, whatever you want to call it, plays into this. But when you're grinding, how do you have the mental fortitude to go, I may not get the interview for a while, but I'm going to keep staying in proximity. Well, yeah. So in this particular, this is a great question. So in this particular story, I knew that it was an opportunity for me. I at that point was beginning to feel like broadcasting was a thing and that interviewing was going to be a thing because I just was obsessed with Larry King Live. And so I knew that this was an opportunity for me to write an interview, not do the interview, but the right one. Well, by the way, if you're going to do an interview an interview interview an interview interviewer, right?

So you all hear me do these interviews on this podcast or you've been to an event and you hear me interview Condoleezza Rice. Well, guess what? I'm spending over an hour actually crafting, not the research part, but just writing the questions out. You never see them. They're on my iPad. They're sitting on my lap, and I'm glancing at them. But you don't do an interview until you first write the interview. So in that moment, I'm going, this is an opportunity to write an interview for a legend. This is for my confidence.

This isn't for notoriety. So I'm glad you asked that because this is for my confidence. Can I write a quality interview? Because keep in mind, I had to write it and submit it to my client. And that's the way it was a client. They weren't paying me. But they could have said, this interview is terrible. These aren't the questions we want to ask.

And so that's what I want to go back to something. said, because you said people are going, okay, Ken, you and Daniel are here and you're on this platform and blah, blah, blah, blah. I want to go back and say something again. The promise of this book is not the dream job. The promise of this book is not, oh, the promise of this book is opportunity. But when you get the opportunity, now I firmly place the ball in your hands. It's a handoff, okay? We said, hut, we said go, you're running, you got your hands open. I've given you the proximity principle, you will get opportunity if you practice it. But what you do with it is up to you. And you and I, we have practiced proximity. As a result, we have gotten opportunities.

But I want people to hear, like, I didn't practice the proximity principle and then get the opportunity to host the Entree Leadership Summit and interview Peyton Manning and Sarah Blakely and Condoleezza Rice and all the other people you hear on this program. That's not how it worked. I want to tell you the first two hosting gigs I did, the first live hosting gig I did, was Swanee Day in Swanee, Georgia, and I introduced a balloon animal artist. The guy was making animals out of balloons and a mime. So I want you to understand there is no next step if you don't take the first step. It's so great.

And I'm going to tell you, for most of us, the first step is not glamorous. It's humiliating. But I think it's where you have to swallow your pride and say, I'm willing to do whatever it takes for how long it takes. Well, and don't you find that the first step is also part of figuring out what you actually want? I mean, you had a really clear vision early, but a lot of people, I know in my story, I didn't know 15 years from now. I want to be at Dave Ramsey doing these kind of things, this thing called Entree Leadership that didn't exist. I didn't have all that vision.

But I was in an environment. I knew I had to get to a place where those kinds of things could come up. Yeah. So again, back to my personal journey here so that you see how this is illustrated. So I thought it was sports media. So once I realized it wasn't politics, it was me. I thought, well, it's sports media because I love sports so much. So I thought, well, it's going to be sports talk.

That'll be great. So I did all these things. You've heard some of this stuff. But I got to a point where I started volunteering, hear this people. I had a successful business, but I was spending three days a week, a couple hours of those three days at the ESPN affiliate in Atlanta, Georgia. And I was screening phone calls, getting sprite for guys who were on air making half of what I was making. Again, swallow my pride. I'm going to get in proximity to the right place.

And as a result, after about two months of that, they put me on air. I started doing remotes. And so they were putting me on air. I remember driving to Nashville on my dime to the SEC basketball tournament, and I was doing phone ends from the media room. I thought I had arrived. But I understand, I stayed with our good friend Bill Hampton. So I crashed at a buddy's house. I paid for my gas and my own meals, and it was my cell phone.

But they gave me the press pass, and I had all access. And John Caliperi is up there on the days after the game, and I'm asking him questions. And then I'm calling in every hour after every game doing live remotes from the SEC men's basketball tournament. And I thought, man, this is great. I'm on the air. Now, here's what I want people to understand. I did that and it did more things, Falcons training camp. And then I got myself on Comcast Sports Southeast because of those radio guys at 680 the fans. Approximity of the right people. They put me in the right place. I pitched a segment, got it on, produced it myself, paid for it all. Did three of those and ran out of money. I couldn't do it anymore. But I proved myself. I could do it. But here's what I learned. To your point, it was in that moment that I realized

it's not sports media. So I got myself in proximity, but it was the proximity to sports radio or sports television. And I got there and I went, huh, I like the performance part of it, but something's missing. And so proximity is also powerful for clarity. It broadens your horizon to what you're right. For clarity. I think I want to get into cybersecurity. Great. So start hanging around dudes that are in cybersecurity. Have lunch and coffee with them. Ask if you can shadow them for a day. Here's what's going to happen. In getting in proximity to somebody who's doing what you think you want to do, clarity comes. Confirmation comes. It's either confirmation that, yep, this is exactly what I thought it was. Oh my gosh. If I could do this, I'd be stealing money. Or, huh, yeah, this is kind of like this. But, boy, when he told me this and I learned about this, I went, this is not aligning. You meet a mentor who shows you there's 10 times more possible in you than you were even thinking about your own vision for yourself. That's exactly right. Okay, I want to come back to, you said something earlier that our listeners cannot miss.

You came on your own dime. You crashed with a buddy. You're investing in the proximity principle. A lot of people can want proximity, but they don't want to pay the price to have it. 100%. You can't just go, oh, I just want to be in proximity. I mean, what are you going to do to get there? Yeah. Well, that's exactly right. And then let's add the rest of this. What are you willing to do to get in proximity? And then what do you do when you get in proximity? Because remember, just being in proximity has a lot of benefits. Okay. So, you know, when I was hanging around that radio station and I was doing some of the things that I was doing, I was in proximity. I was learning. I was getting a chance to do. And I was getting a chance to connect. By the way, those are three things. I can't help myself. It's three things that proximity does for you.

allows you to learn, do, connect. Learn, do, connect. By the way, if as a person who is serious about personal growth and all you people are, if you get up every day and you go, in my context, I need to make sure I learn something that's relevant. I do something about it or, you know, do something that really matters to me, and then I'm making sure I'm connecting with the right people, you're going to progress. But it is not, you have got to be willing to say, will I drive an hour and a half on a Friday night to do a high school football game on a local FM station called 92.9 the bear and realize that 26 people are listening. And you're going to be away from your wife and three kids that night. By the time you get home, it's going to be close to

midnight. Your wife's going to be asleep. Your kid's going to be asleep. And your heart's going to ache a little bit. And you're dealing with this conflicting cocktail mix of emotions where, boy, it was when I was doing the game and preparing to do the game and when I was down on the field before the with the coaches, I thought I was Jim Nance on CBS. I thought I was doing the Super Bowl with Tony Romo as the color commentator. And I loved it and I was alive. But then it was over and I walked to the parking lot and I realized there wasn't anybody there to go, good job, Ken. You were better this week than last week. Nobody told me good job. And I got to drive an hour and a half and I'm now feeling guilty that I didn't spend that hour and half with my wife and kids on that Friday night.

And I'm going to get up and do this next Friday night. And I actually can't see one real benefit to advancing my career to doing this. But somehow I feel like I'm supposed to be doing it. Now, folks, until you have wrestled with that, you're not willing to do what it takes. What keeps you from throwing in the towel when the doubt and the fear and the second guessing is at the pinnacle? And your emotions are really circling.

What do you anchor to to double down? Because I knew that if I quit that, that I would quit something else. It's the teaching of my mom and dad. there's some character that's developed. And I think that what kept me going in those moments, by the way, nobody's ever asked me that. And I've never answered that question, but it was as clear as I could be. I mean, I knew that if I quit doing that, the high school football thing, when I went to that broadcasting school, I asked that guy to give me an opportunity.

He gave me the opportunity. The school was done, but he still wanted me to do it. And he said, I can't pay you, but it's an opportunity for you to get better at this. And at that point, I'm trying to figure out what the path is, but I know it's broadcasting. if I quit that, I got to look at my wife and tell her, I quit. Because I don't see any affirmation there. Well, see, if I'll quit that, then I'll quit three stages later. When, you know, I'm moving up, but it's still not, like, there are so many stages on the climb, Daniel, where nobody's watching.

You know what I mean? Like a lot. It's lonely. It is very lonely. Now, I live in this weird, unbelievable world where I get the benefit of day. Ramsey's platform and I'm slowly building my own. But when anybody asked me for a picture today, I love it. Not because it makes me feel good, but because I go, huh, they actually appreciate my work enough to say, can I get a picture with you? Because I remember when I was doing stuff

and nobody was watching. And if you'll quit early on, you'll quit later on. No, you cannot quit. That's right. Like, what if I walk away now? If I walk away now because I go, I can't handle the rush. Well, I think it's in your story, you're saying if you quit on the small things, you're never going to stay with it on the big things. Well, that's right.

That's right. Like, I knew that even though nobody was really paying attention to that football broadcast, if I quit that, I'm not willing to do everything that it takes. So what's the difference between not quitting there and also having the wisdom to take a strong pivot on the original vision you thought was going to be the political path. Yeah. I mean, you could say, well, I quit on that, right? I quit.

I mean, someone could look at it and go, I quit the political path. Well, you didn't quit, right? You clarified some things. So help our listeners understand the difference between not quitting, but also being, being discerning. Well, there's a difference between intentional quitting and emotional quitting. So intentional quitting, because Dave says this a lot, and he's right. This old phrase that, you know, winners never quit and quitters never win, it sounds really great and it looks great on the wall, but it's not really true. He's right because smart people, successful people, you know, they find out that there's a time when you need to quit and it's basically a redirection. So that's what I mean by intentional quitting. Now, me moving on from politics to broadcasting was me honoring what I teach on the Ken Coleman show, and that's what is your sweet spot. And within the sweet spot, there might be multiple careers and multiple jobs. In fact, usually there are. It's not a, silver bullet one job, one career. So politics would be in my sweet spot. However, it's not the

ultimate calling. And so it was very clear to me that my values were not aligning with the political system and what was going on in the culture. And I felt like I could have greater impact. And my heart began to align with a greater impact to the media. And right now, I can do the Ken Coleman show right now. And today, I got to help six callers. And the day before I, I think, think it was five, and then who knows how many will be tomorrow. And when I speak at an entree summit, I get the opportunity to talk to thousands of people who have insane impact. And I look at that and I go, not one time do I have to talk politics and not one time will anybody turn me off because I said anything political. Boy, I dig that. I dig that a lot.

And so back to the question, that's a strategic quitting, if we want to call it quitting. But the emotional quitting is different. the emotional quitting is unacceptable. And what I mean by that is this is where you're in alignment and you're doing something that you know you have to do in order to get to do what you want to do. Don't you dare quit that. There's a famous line in the movie, The Great Debater, is Forrest Whitaker is the father. And Denzel Washington is debate coach. It's a great movie, by the way, if you want to teach your kids some great life lessons and leadership.

And his son is a great, great debater. And he's a fantastic kid. It's based on a true story of a small black college that won, I think, a national championship in debate. And at some point his son is not wanting to do the work. He's not wanting to put the work in and prepare. And his dad's holding him accountable to it. And the son's kind of pushing back. And the line in the movie is so brilliant.

He looks at me and says, boy, you better learn to do what you have to do to be able to do what you want to do. And he's absolutely right. And so in that situation where I'm committed to that local producer to do those high school football games through the season, if I quit midseason, to me, that's an emotional quitting. I wanted to be in broadcasting. I knew that I needed to be in broadcasting. And while I wasn't getting any attention, that's not why we're doing it. We're doing it to practice.

I was in a place to practice. That's one of the places in the book. That's a low stress area for you to do what you want to do. You're not doing it for a living. Not a bunch of people paying attention, but you can get good at it. It's the equivalent of me going out to the driving range tomorrow. I got a lesson tomorrow at 5 o'clock.

That's a place to practice. I'm going to go get a lesson, and then I'll go spend another hour, hour and a half on the range. practicing. When I get to the golf course, now that's a place to perform, right? The pressure's on. My buddies are watching. I'm scoring. We're writing down the score. That's the difference. So I agree with the distinction between the two types of quitting, but I think you understand what I'm saying. And I just knew that if I quit in the middle of that football season, it was going to give me another opportunity to quit when I wasn't getting the out of boys.

That makes a lot of sense. But as I'm telling you, you have got to get this book, whether you're a business owner and you're wanting to land the next big deal and get in proximity to that, whether you're looking to get in your dream job, whether you're close to your dream job, and you just want to get a little bit closer. This principle is universal, and I'm going to give it to everyone on our team and everyone we talked to. I mean, it's just, it is so critical as a tool for people who are going, I think I'm meant for more. I think there's something more out there. This is the playbook. And you talk about, I mean, we don't have time to get into, but there's the five types of

people you need to meet. There's practical steps to take. So get the book today. And guys, Ken Coleman, you guys have heard him for years on the Entry Leadership Podcast, and you know this guy is a content vault. And he's always asking the questions. And I mean, the people he has met and the things he knows, you do not want to miss out on this gem of a book. And, Ken, before we go, any final thoughts for our listeners about Proximity Principle? Yeah, we did a survey.

We love to survey you folks because we really are here to serve you. And the production team could tell you if you ever meet them. at an entree event that when we do these surveys, it sits on my desk. The very first time we did a survey, I carried it around with one of those big, clunky black, you know, kind of binders, you know, that clicks on because I wanted to make sure that we were delivering the content that these people wanted. And our latest survey said that the number two thing that this audience wants is advice on advancing in your career. And I am telling you, I'm not selling a book. If you want to move up the ladder, even if you're on the right ladder. So this isn't, this is a book that's for a career

starter. It's for a career switcher and it's for a career advancer. Well, and this is important for, we got a lot of business owners are going, I don't want to give it to my team so I don't want to leave. No, no, no, no. This isn't about them leaving. It's about them navigating your organization and getting ready for the next wave of where your business is at. Well, let's just look at any division of your company. This is for the, this is for the people in operations, it's for the people in accounting, it's for the people in sales. How can they grow and get better in their role? Do you want to

create an environment where people want to stay with you because they know there are ladders in the building. If Dave Ramsey deserves credit for only one thing, and he deserves credit for many things, but if it's only one thing, it's that he has created an environment around here, and Daniel Tarty and I are kind of the poster children for this, is that he has created an environment where there are ladders. If you do your current job, and you do it well, and you grow while doing it well, you will be given an opportunity to climb to the next run. Every time.

and the proximity principle is working for you as owners. It'll work for you as leaders in helping your team realize, hey, you want to grow here? Then let me help you identify some people that you need to be in proximity to. Let me identify some places. You need to go to this conference. You need to work on this. This is an area that if you get better in, the world's coming your way.

So even though I give you five people in five places in this book, this can be expanded. And when you get this as a leader, I think it could set your company on fire. Fantastic. All right, guys, get the book. King Coleman, Proximity Principal. Ken, thanks for being on the Entree Leadership Podcast.

It was great to have you. You know, this is such a fun treat. I've got to tell you, I'm so humbled to be able to do this because for years, it has been just about serving the audience to doing interviews. But to get to share my heart, I'm blown away, and I'm grateful. I love this audience. I love this tribe, so I believe it's going to help people. But thank you for the opportunity to share this.

Thank you. Okay, this is fun. You know, I'm a man of the people, so I'm always looking for good things for you folks. So two opportunities for free content from the book, The Proximity Principle. The first is a free chapter of the audiobook. There's five places in the book that we talk about. One is a place to grow. Chapter 11. We're going to give you this free chapter of the audiobook. And we have another special surprise on this. If you do not have a place to grow, Audible and you want to try Audible, which by the way, it's how I listen to all my audiobooks, you will get the entire audiobook of the proximity principle. So if you want the free chapter or you want the entire audiobook for free by trying Audible, all the details we will send to you. Text the word Coleman. That's my last thing.

That's right. C-O-L-E-M-A-N. Text Coleman, 33-4-4-4. That's 33-4-4-4. Or you can click on the link in this episode's show notes. All right, folks, so honored to get to share the proximity principle with you on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team. Thank you so very much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.

Hey, folks, I want to make you aware that we have other great podcasts from Ramsey Solutions. Here's a sample of the Ken Coleman show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly 70% of Americans are disengaged at work. If you dread going into work every Monday morning and you're just trying to make it to the weekend, the Ken Coleman show is for you. Everyone has a sweet spot. Your sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talent and greatest passion. We will help you discover what it is you were born to do and then will help you create a plan to make your dream job a reality.

You matter and you have what it takes. Join the conversation on the Ken Coleman Show. To hear full episodes, just search Ken Coleman. Coleman in iTunes or go to Ken Coleman Show.com.