EntreLeadership - #329: How to Create a Collaborative Culture with Carly Fiorina

Episode Date: July 1, 2019

While it may not always be the easiest or quickest route, collaborating with your team members to solve problems is always a good idea. In fact, best-selling author and former Hewlett-Packard CEO Carly Fiorina says doing so just may be the key to advancing your own career. Tune in as Carly explains how to go about creating a culture of collaboration in your own organization, as well as why it is so vital to your success. We’re also bringing you a power-packed Women in Leadership panel from our recent EntreLeadership Summit. Join us to hear three Ramsey Solutions’ female leaders tackle questions direct from the audience with practical wisdom and advice.   entreleadership.com/podcast Buy the book: Find Your Way Carly Fiorina's website Mention this podcast to receive $200 off an EntreLeadership Summit ticket (limited to 10) How to Lead When You're Not In Charge Podcast episode #325: Bryan and Shannon Miles—Delegating Results Free download from Belay Resources: You're Delegating, But They're Not Listening We want your opinion! Review this episode.   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you never try something new, if you never take a risk, you're also never going to actually achieve your full potential. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Entree Leadership. Now here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation. here's what we've got coming up for you. Carly Fiorina, former chairman and CEO of Hewlett Packard,

and now a best-selling author. Also, you might remember, she kind of put herself out there for running for president, did not get the nomination, but nonetheless, very, very impressive lady. And how about this power lady episode? We're going to give you a portion of our women and leadership panel from the 2019 Entree Leadership Summit. This panel included some of the top ladies. leaders in our organization. We have a lot of them. And so you're going to hear from just a few.

But hey, let's get right to it. Carly Fiorina is our feature conversation. And this is fun because this is a really nice preview, if you will, of the content she's going to bring to our 2020 Entree Leadership Summit, going to be in Orlando, Florida. So it's going to be great fun. But this is one of the most thoughtful ladies that I've ever had a chance to meet and just a phenomenal leader. And what a great story. Here is my conversation with the one, the only, Carly, Fierrean. We have so many young leaders who listen into this program. And I'm just going to kind of start out in a different place that I normally would with kind of an open-ended big question and let you just teach. But I would love for you to just think about young leaders that are listening in here.

And they're early on in their career. Some of them, maybe even in their first leadership position. and they certainly, as most leaders, they want to do a great job leading where they are, and they also have an eye on the next. What would you say to that young leader? How would you encourage them and equip them in this season? Well, the first thing that I would say is, if you are young and starting out and you already think of yourself as a leader, congratulations, because that wasn't my story. I thought I might get fired at the end of every day.

I felt totally unqualified for the jobs that I had. And I had this idea about what leadership is. And the idea that I had was a leader as someone with an office, with a title, with position and power, and maybe the biggest parking space. And so that wasn't me, I didn't think. What I learned, however, is that there were problems all around me, lots of problems that everybody talked about. And frequently, nobody did much about them. And so I started solving problems. So what I would say to young leaders is, think not about the position you want someday. Think about the impact you can have today. And what I would also say is don't worry about the next job. Do the job you have. To the very best of your ability, solve the problems in front of you, collaborate with the people all around you. Because honestly, I have seen a lot of careers get short changed because people are so focused on the next job, on the big title that they want, that they fail to see and take advantage of the opportunity that's right in front of them today. Carly, in that answer, you mentioned a word that I think is an art form. I don't see it a lot, done very well with leaders, because it really does take a special discipline. You were really good at it. You're passionate talking about it. So let's bring it up. Collaboration.

But what is the secret to doing collaboration well? Well, I think first you have to realize why it's necessary. I mean, you don't collaborate just because it's a nice thing to do. You don't collaborate just because it's fun to do. In fact, frequently it's a pain in the neck to do. I mean, there's so many times when each of us would say to ourselves and our heads, oh, it would just be so much easier if I could just do this myself. The reason to collaborate is because the impact will be greater, will be longer lasting, will be bigger.

So if you have a tiny problem that doesn't impact a lot of people and that the answer is obvious, you may not need to collaborate. You maybe can just do it all by yourself. Gee, I have five minutes. I need something copied. I'm just going to do it myself. On the other hand, if you're tackling a problem or trying to take advantage of an opportunity that is complex, as most problems and opportunities are these days, or it impacts a lot of people, or maybe because it is complex and because it impacts a lot of people, you don't know everything you need to know about solving it. Then you need to collaborate. And so I say all that to say you won't collaborate effectively unless you actually think you need to.

And you will only think you need to collaborate if you're humble enough to understand that you don't know it all. And you can't possibly know it all because the world is complicated and so are problems and things happen quickly. And you won't collaborate unless you understand as well that the answers you're going to get will be. be better, richer, more impactful. If other people are collaborating with you, you're going to come up with better answers, although it may take longer and it may feel harder. Okay, let's look at this from a couple different contexts. So let's take collaboration. So the leader themselves, they're in a room, they need to be collaborating, they are collaborating, they put themselves in the situation. What's the right posture to really ensure that the

Humility is obvious that there's a hunger to actually do this. What would you recommend as far as reading the room and then being a part of this collaboration process when maybe you don't know that person very well? Maybe there needs to be some trust established. Just curious what you would tell us that would help us be more effective at stepping into this. Well, I think first you need to establish why you're all there and agree why you're all there. It seems like such an obvious thing.

But how many meetings have you been in where people sit down and just start? But what they haven't done is taking the time to agree on what's our purpose? What's the problem we're trying to solve? Do we all agree on the problem we're trying to solve? Do we all agree it's a problem? Do we all know why we're here? Taking the time to get grounded in who's there, why they're there, what you're trying to get done together is a way of establishing connection, but also laying the

foundation for what you're going to be working on together. The second thing I would say is people need to connect at a human level before they can collaborate effectively. So maybe that means everyone going around the room and saying something about themselves, or maybe it means everyone talking about why this problem is important to them, or why they want to be in room or what they think perhaps they bring to the table that they can offer, that they can contribute, and then in a spirit of humility saying, and these are some things that maybe I don't understand about the problem, or things I'm perhaps not as good at as some of the rest of you are. In other words, one of the things that leaders have to do to collaborate effectively

is put everyone on the same level for a period of time. In the end, there may come a time, when a person has to make a call, has to make a decision. But for that period of collaboration, of problem solving, of creatively thinking through possibilities and solutions, everyone needs to be a peer at that table, and everyone has to feel it is both their opportunity and their obligation to bring all that they have to the table as peers. Boy, that's really good. Okay, I love that.

So now the second context, You certainly understand having led HP and understanding, you know, how do you get all these different divisions? How do we create a culture of collaboration? So how does the leader then model this what you just described in their life? That's how they do it. But then how do they begin to institutionalize, I guess for a lack of a better word, and create a culture of true collaboration so that everybody's looking for these opportunities to do what you just described? That is the million dollar question. It's not easy and it takes time. And let me just say it's frequently the most difficult in very successful organizations. Because successful organizations are successful for a reason. People have a way

of doing things. And if you have a big successful organization, complicated successful organization, what happens? People get into their turf, right? Everybody has their fiefdoms. Everyone gets into this mode of, well, this is my team, and I'm going to talk to my team, but there's nothing I can learn from this other team. And so there are many levels of collaboration. There is collaboration with one's own team, important, but frequently there are so many problems that can only be solved if people are prepared to work with other teams across organizational boundaries. So, to the point of your question, the first thing I would say is, it has to be role modeled. So I'll tell you a very specific story.

I arrived at HP, we had 87 business units, all with their own president. We had five people with the title CEO. I was one of them, but there were four others who reported to me, but who were also called CEOs. Now, imagine for a moment the turf, the fiefdoms, the territory. And so people had learned, you know, I collaborated. in my kingdom, but I don't get outside my kingdom. So one of the first things we had to do was start to have meetings where people had to get outside of their own team. The first thing

we did was examine every asset the company had as a collaborative team, as peers. We spent days doing it. So that, in other words, people had the same context. with which to begin collaborating. Everyone spent time learning about everything going on in the business. And then we had a common frame of reference. Role modeling collaboration means that I had to sit, not as their boss, but at times as their peer and learn with them and struggle with them and problem solve with them. And of course, over time, a culture gets built not because of the talk, but because of the walk. That is, cultures get built on behavior. And one of the really important behaviors that people look for when they're trying to understand a culture is who gets promoted, who gets rewarded.

So if you're promoting people who don't collaborate, the message is, I don't need to collaborate. If the boss is collaborating, that sends a message. Maybe I need to role model that behavior. And then if you see really great collaborators who reach across organizational boundaries, who sit with others as their colleague and their peer, and discuss all kinds of solutions to a problem they all share, if those are the kinds of people that get promoted, you've taken a big step forward in building a culture of collaboration.

Okay, that leads me. I've got to ask you this because you have such a unique experience. Certainly when you come into a organization like that with all those many kingdoms, as you said. I used to call it the land of a thousand tribes. I'll bet. I mean, it's almost mind-numbing. I don't know that I can fully process what that must have been like for you to come in and go, okay, let's see the lay of the land. That's why I want to go down this path here. There's so much we can ask you. And if you're a leader right now and you want to make some change in your organization, where Carly's going to take

is still applying to you. She just came in as obviously a fresh and a new leader here. but I'm curious about how we can take away from the changes you led in behaviors and processes. I'll just try to keep it that simple. So new processes and then behaviors that may be or may not be connected to those processes. And you've got a successful company, a name brand, big time American brand, and you come in, you've got all these leaders. What did you learn about changing? That's a big boat to turn around. What did you learn from the process of changing cultures, behaviors, and processes that we can learn from you?

You have to have a complete view of what's in front of you. And for me, to have a complete view, I needed to have what I called and what I built a leadership framework. And very simply, I call it a framework because it literally is a square like a frame. and at the top of that frame are goals. What are our goals? Or you could put it another way. What are the problems we're trying to solve? But you need to find agreement on those goals and on those problems.

That's a key step. And so often organizations just skip right over it and assume, oh, everybody knows the problems. Everybody agrees what the problems are. We all know what the goals are. Well, frequently people don't. How often have you seen, for example, political discourse. Everyone's arguing, and actually nobody even agrees on the problem. That happens in all kinds of settings. So goals, problems, what are we trying to accomplish? Get clear on that.

Get aligned on that. Second, who has to do what? We talk about processes, structures, but who has to do what to contribute to this problem or to achieve this goal? And if you have a big goal or a big problem, or a complicated problem or a goal that's been elusive for a long time, it's a big hint that you're not going to get it done by just doing things the way you've always done them. If you were going to accomplish something by just continuing to do things the way you've always done them, you would have accomplished it. You would have solved the problem, but you haven't. So clearly you have to do something different, which means people have to be willing to take on different roles and operate differently. The more explicit you can be about that, the better. So, for example, in the

HP example, guys, we can't serve customers who want a system that works by being 87 different business units. It doesn't work. And our customers told us that. Third, the bottom of the framework, how are you going to measure results? What results are you looking for? Because I truly believe what gets measured is what gets done. And that's true in all settings. My goodness, in our lives today, we measure everything. We measure our calories. We measure our steps. We measure our heartbeat at rest, blah, blah, blah. But you have to be able to measure the results you're trying to achieve. And then finally, what is the behavior we want? Be explicit about it, not mysterious about it. So we needed more collaboration. Let's be explicit about that. Let's train people on how to collaborate effectively. We need

more innovation and more risk-taking. Let's be explicit about that. The more explicit you can be about all these things, the more likely you are to achieve them. But now let me just say to all of your viewers and listeners, you don't have to be a CEO to take that point of view. When I landed in AT&T many years ago as an entry-level employee, my previous job in business had been as a secretary, I felt completely unqualified, and here was an organization, incredibly successful, and they had done things a certain way for a long time. And here comes me. And what I kept hearing about were problems that weren't getting solved. And so I would sit down with people and say, do we actually think this is a problem? Is it worth the energy to try and solve? And people would say yes, but somehow they didn't think it was their job to solve it. Well, let's talk about how to solve it. Sometimes solving a problem starts with asking a question. What's the problem? What do you think we should do about it?

And then acting on it. It's amazing. When you say it like that, it's kind of like, oh, man, you know, this ought to be an indictment on leadership. But I think you make a very good point here. Problems are just, you know, leaders, they come up with all kinds of reasons why they don't want to solve or deal with the problem. So the very thing that we try to avoid sometimes is the key to a thing. thriving future. What's the psychology of a leader? Because I think they're leaders listening in right now, Carly. What are the fears or the doubts that leaders are facing that have

create this situation where we want to put it off till tomorrow? And then the next day, we kick the can down the road to use a political phrase. So first, I would say, people need to understand the difference between leaders and managers. And there are a lot of people who would call themselves leaders, but what they are as managers. There's nothing wrong with being a manager per se, but a manager does the best they can with whatever the existing conditions are. In other words, a manager does the best they can, sometimes extremely well, within the status quo. They accept the way things are. Leaders change the order of things for the better. The reason problems fester is not because people don't know what they are. Generally speaking,

everyone knows what the problems are. And in fact, they talk about the problems. A lot. They gossip about the problems. The reason problems hang around is because in order to solve them, you have to change something. And people actually don't like change. The status quo is powerful. People are invested in it. Hey, we've done it this way for a long time and it works. Or, hey, I like being a business unit president. It doesn't matter so much to me that we're not serving customers. Well, I like my title. I like my office. I'm not being condemned. of people, this is human nature. The status quo is powerful. And so when you set out to change it as a leader, wherever you are, whatever your title is, when you set out to change that status quo, guess what? People are going to push back. They're going to criticize you. They're going to say, for example, something that's been said to me and perhaps many of your listeners, all my life. People are going to say, who do you think you are? Why do you think you can tackle this? I mean, we've been doing it this way. It's working all right. Okay, it's not perfect, but it's working all right. We've been pretty successful. People don't like to be criticized. That's human nature. And particularly, I would

say, in this culture, where criticism is so omnipresent, it's everywhere, it's all around us, always the critics. Critics are always louder than fans. Isn't that always true? And people don't like that. And so what are people afraid of? They're afraid of being criticized. They're afraid of being wrong. They're afraid of making a mistake. They're afraid that maybe if they take a risk, they're going to blow it. And so sometimes it's just easier and it feels safer to just leave it alone and do the best you can with the way things are. That's why problems fester. And that is what leaders are made for. leaders solve the problems in front of them and change the order of things for the better. Leaders do not accept the status quo.

They challenge it for a purpose. Would you say that a big part of your success, I mean, so many things you did well, but you got in the business of solving problems. I know your story. You just kind of each level that you were given an opportunity, you were kind of taking that approach. Not kind of. You took that approach that you just laid out for us. Would you say that a big part of your success was not only taking a real,

real direct approach towards problems, but also empowering your team, the leaders under you, to actually take that same approach and go solve problems? Just go solve problems. Absolutely. The only reason I moved forward in corporate America, honestly, is because I solved problems. I didn't look like most of the people who were rising in the ranks at that company. People didn't expect that of me. I didn't expect that of myself. But what I figured out is, is every time I solved a problem, it felt great. And every time I worked with others to solve problems, and by the way, that's the only way you actually solve problems.

You work with others, whether it's Jim or your colleagues. They don't have to be your subordinates. It felt great. And so I came to learn about myself, as most people do. Once they get into problem-solving mode, it's fun. I ran to challenges. I ran to problems. I would run to the jobs where people said, oh, don't take that job.

Whoa, it's too hard. Wow, there are too many problems. Everybody told me not to take the HP job. It's too hard. But when you do hard things and you accomplish something important, wow, it feels great. And here's the thing I've also learned about myself and I've learned about others. There is a look that people get when they accomplish more than they thought they could. It was the look in Jim's eyes when he saved $300 million.

It's the look we see in our kids' eyes when they do something they didn't think they could. It's the same everywhere. And no matter who you are, you get that look. It's this look of, wow, I did something that I think matters. And I did something I didn't think I could. And I did it with a group of people to whom I am connected and with whom I have collaborated. That look for me is fuel. And so I want to see that look in as many people as possible.

What was it like for you in any level of your leadership where you took this approach, personally, you taught it, you empowered it, and then what is it like for the leader when you get reports and the entire meeting or the entire report is a problem that you weren't even aware of and somebody went and fixed it and they're just reporting to you? problem existed or it arose, we went after it, we fixed it, here's the update. How rewarding is that for you when you would see that and see that whole thing come to fruition? It's incredible. It's awesome because what you're seeing is the birth of a leader. What you're seeing when people do that is somebody who maybe was a manager, maybe even had a lot of ambition for position or title, but they weren't leading, and now they're leading. And I think it's true of all the people I've ever interacted with in all walks of life and all over the world. When people face a challenge head on, when they get themselves through their fears and we're all afraid, when people face a

challenge head on, when they find others with whom they can connect and collaborate, who also face that challenge. And then they actually make progress, that's a great feeling. And people want it over and over and over. Once people start to lead, they generally keep going. You mentioned fear. We all have fear. You said that. You're absolutely right. And so many leaders are dealing with a lot of different fears. Again, it's the human condition. It's always going to be there. If you're leading, fear is going to be somewhere present. Just curious, how would you encourage us? And when you say the Courage to reclaim your power. It's interesting that you use that phraseology there in dealing with fear.

What are you telling us in this book? What do we need to learn about it? Well, fear can imprison us. Fears hold us back. That's always true, no matter the setting for the fear. Fears can hold us back. So let's talk about some of the common fears in, say, an organizational setting. I'm going to get criticized.

Therefore, I'm not going to say anything. I'm not going to do anything. And when you don't say anything and you don't do anything, then you've given over your power and your potential to your fear. Or let's say your fear is, I'm going to make a mistake. Well, if you are so afraid to make a mistake, and many people are, then you're never going to try anything new. You're never going to innovate.

Because trying something new means taking a risk. Innovation means risk taking and risk taking and trying something new means you are going to make a mistake sometimes. So if you never try something new, if you never take a risk, you're also never going to actually achieve your full potential. And you'll just sit and do things the way you've always done them. You know people who have stopped growing. People who are eager to learn and eager to grow have lots. of energy and enthusiasm. But you also know the opposite. People who have stopped learning and stopped growing because they're so afraid to make a mistake or take a risk. And when people stop learning and

stop growing, guess what happens? They get stale. And in a way, in a real way, they start dying, honestly. Another fear that people are afraid of, you know, I'll miss out on my dream job, some thing that I'm really fixated on. I have to have this job and this title by this point. If people get so fixated on that and so afraid of losing that, what happens is they don't see so many things that are right in front of them that might be actually more useful and more impactful for them to focus their energies on, or they give up so much of themselves to get to that place that by the time they arrive, they're not themselves at all anymore, and they've given up power in that way as well. All those examples are giving over our own power to our fear,

and we have to get over our fears if we're going to unlock our own potential. I love that. I love the power issue. I think you really get to the heart of that. Well, folks, she is, Carly Fiorina. The book is Find Your Way, Unleash Your Power and Highest Potential. She's going to be with us in Orlando at our Entree Leadership Summit. So that's exciting stuff. Carly, always great to talk with you. You're such a fantastic leader. I know you've got a lot going on.

So we know your time is incredibly valuable and we are better for hanging out with you. Thank you. Thank you, Ken. It's always great to talk with you. And I really look forward to being with you at the next summit. Big thanks to Carly for hanging out with us here on the program. And as you heard her say, as we wrapped up, really excited to be with all of you that will be coming. to the Entree Leadership Summit,

2020, Orlando, Florida. If you've not heard about our lineup, let me break it down for you. I'm sure there'll be a surprise or two, some more additions. But here's what we got so far. Beyond Dave Ramsey, Chris Hogan, and myself from our team, will be joined by Damon John,

the People's Shark, of course you know him, from Shark Tank and a two-time guest here on this program. Kat Cole, a former guest of ours, and the president of North America, Focus Brands. This is a lot of the great food brands in the Focus brand family. Carly Fiorina, that of course we just mentioned. Craig Groschell, founder and senior pastor of the largest church in America, Life.Church. Mike Rowe, the executive producer and TV show host. Of course, Dirty Jobs is the show he's most famous for. It's done so many things. And what a great

dude he is. And also, he was a guest on this program. In fact, everybody that I mentioned there has been a guest on this program. So you know the quality of communicator that we're bringing you. Now, this event is going to sell out. We're looking at over 4,000 leaders from around the world coming to Orlando, Florida, and it goes quick. So we've got a special deal for you. The first 10 people to register are going to get $200 off the ticket price. This is a pricey deal. So $200 is no joke. You can get it if you text the word summit 2020. The first 10 people that are going to jump on this will get $200 off. So you've got to move quick.

If you're hearing the sound of my voice, you better be texting. Summit 2020, all one phrase, Summit 2020. Text that to 33444-34-34-4. 3-4-4, or you can click on the link in this episode's show notes. Well, speaking of Summit, in 2019, we had our Women in Leadership panel. These are women leaders here at Ramsey Solutions. This panel was hosted by my good pal, George Camel, who is our emcee of live events. And on the panel, you'll recognize Sarah Sloyne, who's been on this program many times.

She's our senior vice president of Entree Leadership. She's joined by Suzanne Sims, a senior executive vice president of our business to consumer division, and then Jen Sievertson, our chief marketing officer here at Ramsey Solutions. This is power-packed, really practical wisdom. that you can apply to your business right now. Listen in as Sarah, Suzanne, and Jen answer questions from our audience. All right, we'll start with this one here, a great kickoff. What is one big thing you've learned as being a woman in leadership that has been important

to your success and growth? One big thing you've learned. What an open-ended question. Yeah, you could go anywhere with that one. The thing that I have learned, and this is whether you're a man or a woman, is that my learning never stops. So I think there was a day where I felt really insecure about the things that I didn't know. I would sit in a room with all these really smart people and I would just feel insecure about it.

And I think there was a day. That was a turning point for me. And I just realized that I need to embrace that and just always ask good questions and that it's nothing to be embarrassed of. And I'm never going to arrive. Like there will literally never be a day where I am the expert on everything ever. And that was a good turning point for me. One big thing that I learned early on is to leave. from my own strengths, not to model myself after somebody else. It's great to learn things from

other people, to take tips and constantly be growing. But if I tried to lead from like somebody else led, that wouldn't be genuine to who I am. I think it's hard for me to just give one, because there's so many, I think, are important specifically for women to talk about. But for me, if you know me, you know that I take what I do very seriously, but I don't take myself seriously. And that has been the to having fun at work, enjoying what I do, and to continue enjoying what I do. That's awesome. All right, we have a question over here. I've heard you talk about you work with your best friends,

and I'm curious any advice you have on hiring and then leading personal friends and when that line blurs. Yes. Listen, don't hire somebody you don't like. Our interview process is very long, and we're known for that, and we're not apologizing for that, because our turnover rate's very low. as a result, but when I'm interviewing someone, I can tell in a reasonable amount of time if I'm going to like them or not. And by the way, I'm not a snob. Like, I like a lot of different

types of people. So the folks that I'm friends with at work, they're all so different from each other. But we do have a common mission that we're on, and we also have a common thing in that we don't take ourselves too seriously. That's what I look for. Can you be passionate about what you do and still be able to have fun and loosen up? that would be my advice. I agree with everything she said, and I would add that I love my friends enough to tell them the truth, meaning even if they report to me that I'm going to tell them the truth about a situation and be honest with them, and the conversation might go something like this.

If I were you, I'd want to know this. So let's have this hard conversation. And Jen's a lot nicer than me. I'm like super direct with people. But my guys know that if I'm going to have some direct conversation, with them, like, we're going to be joking around five minutes later. And we tease each other nonstop. And I allow it both ways. Like, I'm not too good for that. And I think that helps a ton. All right. We've got one over here. Hi. I actually have a lot of females in my leadership.

And as the CEO, what would you give me to be a better leader for the females in an organization? And then what would be one piece of advice you'd give to them to help them personally develop, obviously as men and women were just different in our wiring, which brings an incredible perspective. As you mentioned, that's why I'm so excited to have them on my leadership team. But I just want to make sure that I'm developing them in a unique way as well and not just looking at it from a general perspective. Okay, let me say this.

Dave Ramsey does not see gender or age. He leads us the same way as he leads them in our organization. There's no difference. When he's challenging me, he's going to challenge me the same way as he challenged. as my male counterparts. That would be my advice is don't try to set them apart and lead them differently because the end of the day you want the same performance and the same results from them as the men. And if you hold them to the same standards, lead them the same way, they should rise to that occasion. Yeah, I agree with that. I think the most important thing as a leader that you

can do is figure out the individual motivation of that person. Everybody has a different motivation and when you know the heart of that, then you can motivate them in that unique way. And so I think that is regardless of gender. The only thing I would say is what Sarah said about figuring out their motivation. Well, you actually have to build a relationship with somebody, and we're very relational in the way that we lead and actually the way that we do everything as an organization.

But that's the same if you were leading men, is build that relationship because then you're going to know how to lead them better. You're going to understand better what motivates them, where they need maybe some reinforcement or some strengths, like how they need to backfill themselves because they're not any good at whatever, fill in the blank. And so they need somebody on their team that can step up and do that for them.

So I think it's really just that building of a relationship and it's going to be unique, I think, for each person. I also think when in doubt just ask, hey, what do you think are the unique things that you bring to the table? When you look across our leadership team, what is it that you specifically, we talk about this on our leadership team, we'll take some time and say, hey, what is it that each person can work on? And then what is it that each person brings to the table that only they bring to the table? So some people are better at people things,

some people are better at quality standards. And so I love just kind of asking people, what's your unique perspective on this and pulling that out of them. All right. We got a question over here. So I know you guys said that Dave is really great about not seeing gender and not seeing age in the workplace. I think that is so awesome. But what advice would you give to a young leader leading a team of people that are older than you and have been with the company longer than you have? I remember I being probably 28 years old and realizing in a new role that I had that, oh, wow, I'm leading these people that are so much older than me and they've been there longer.

I was new to the company and thinking, wow, okay, how is this going to work? One of the things, that I found really went a long way was just being honest with them saying, hey, I don't have this all figured out, and you've been here a long time. I'd really like to hear what you think about this. Now, that doesn't mean that I'd always do what they recommended, but I was getting their input, and then they felt heard, and I just never approached it like, oh, I've got this all figured out, and I've got all this life lesson, you know, experience that you don't have, because it wasn't true. And I just found that. But, you know, if you can be comfortable enough with who you are to just be honest and open with them.

And again, it doesn't mean that you're going to do everything that they say, but then they know that they've been heard. So there's four steps that I usually recommend if you want to influence anybody, whether it's somebody that's a peer, someone who's a team member or buddy. So first, you've got to make relationships. You've got to build rapport. And Suzanne is excellent at this at really getting to know that person and showing them that you care. The second step is you want to build credibility. So if you are not good at your job, I don't think they probably want to hear about what you think about how they're doing their job. So be excellent at your job.

So you've got great relationship. You're excellent at your job. And that results in trust. And so when you've got that trust, then you take that fourth step and you can influence them. And I would say that is the key to building influence with anybody. And I would say that's probably what your team's looking for. Do you care about them? Do you have that relationship?

do they think you're good at your job? Are you taking steps? Now, you are going to have outliers. If you think about the bell curve, you're going to have those quick adopters that are going to be like, you're great, I'll do whatever you say. A lot of people in the middle

who are kind of waiting to see, is she going to do a good job? Is she not going to do a good job? And then you have maybe that one problem child that we all have, and they're real loud, so they sound like there's 50 of them, that is negative. The biggest trap you can fall into

is spending all of your time with those negative people. Okay? So they feel really loud. You feel like you got to dress them. I would encourage you to spend a lot of your time on this side of the bell curve with the early adopters because the people in the middle are waiting to see what's going to happen. And the sooner that you pour into those people

who are on your team, everyone else will come over and that one person will resolve themselves one way or the other. They will either get on board or they will be out. All right. We've got a question over here. With, I don't know how many people are on your teams, if you want to share that, that would be great how many people you're leading. But do you find yourself more exclusively leading your team versus working on the technical side of things. For example, with marketing, are you still very involved with looking at new trends or are you kind of relying on your team to do stuff like that and bring it to you? I have six direct reports and under them you've got around 125 to 150 people. But my direct reports are so competent and so good at what they do. And I rely

heavily on them. But if something breaks apart in one of their areas, I dive way down into it. I'll start attending team meetings and I'll mix up who's in those meetings. And we do it together. Like I'm not like all of a sudden usurping their authority. I don't do it like that. It's very relational and it's very much a partnership. But like I don't just sit in my ivory tower and like hope they figured out and tell them what to do. I get involved.

I roll up my sleeves when I need to and help fix problems. So on Entree, we have about 60 people now. And this has been something that I am trying to get better at. So I've hired most of my leadership team in the last 18 months. And so it has been a very interesting transition. So if you think about when you first start somewhere, you get paid for what you do, right? You're an executor. You get paid for what you do.

Then you get paid for what you know. So a lot of times you are helping those people who are doing do that better, right? So if they're working on creative work, you are then coming in and giving them, hey, here's the principle of how we do that. And that's really important that you are imparting the principles and not just the tactical details of how things are done. But what I'm really working towards is working on who I grow. And that is so hard because I find such value in tactically executing. Our senior VP of live events, Pete Young, said this, and I thought it was so brilliant. He said, when we get stressed out, we go to what we find most comfortable.

And usually that's a tactical execution of something. You know, we love to check that little list and be like, I did it, I did it, I did it. And it's not so clean when you are getting paid for growing people, right? It's not like a list you can just check off. So I tell you that because it's something I'm still growing in, and there are days that I'm better at it, and there are days that I'm not so good. But I'm really trying to focus on being more in the 80% strategy

and the things that only I can do. And there are 20%, like Suzanne saying, like where you just have to dive in and fix something that's broken. And so that's where I'm telling you, like, kind of my journey. That's good. All right, we've got a question over here. What's one piece of advice that you could go back and give yourself? I think don't take myself so seriously.

Don't you think? Yes. Oh my gosh. I mean, I think about the stuff I stressed out about, and I'm like, what happened there? Why did I lose sleep over that thing? So I would say, don't take yourself so seriously.

Like, you're always going to have a learning curve, and it's just, there's going to be things that five years ago were very stressful for me. So conflict, people conversations used to be very stressful for me. And there are still some situations that I would say are, but because I can look back and see like it was fine. You know, we all survived. I learned a lot. I now look at that as like exercising that muscle.

So when I hit something that stresses me out, so like board presentations, I just look at that as like, I'm going to exercise this muscle so that I can be the best at this in a year and I'm not going to be stressed out about this at all. I look at it as opportunities versus this thing that just continues to stress me out. I would say too that being comfortable in the uncomfortableness, meaning that I don't ever feel like I've got to figure it out. I don't ever feel like I've arrived. I don't, like I'm just always, okay, well, I just got comfortable being uncomfortable all the

time. And it's like, if I'm ever comfortable, you should all be scared because I probably shouldn't be doing my job. I think if you're in a leadership role, that means somebody decided and believes in you and decided you should have a seat at the table. And if I could go back, I would tell myself to stop being intimidated. She talked about this earlier by the people in the room that seems smarter than me, just to not be intimidated by that and own who I am, own the role that I've been given,

because apparently I've earned it, and just walk in every day and own it and be the best I can be that day and not be intimidated by the people around me. I don't want you all set up here and told you, like, we don't have it all together. Like, hearing these ladies, and this is so, if you guys think I have it all together, just because I happen to lead an area that teaches other people about business and leadership. That is the funniest thing. I mean, so I don't want you guys to miss, like, we are all in this together. Every day we're learning, and you can use these opportunities as a chance to learn from people who are smarter

who have mastered certain things. So don't feel, I know we all can be really hard on ourselves, but don't miss, like, these ladies who are so successful just sat here and told you that every day they are figuring things out. So I just want y'all to know, like, we are in this together. All right, I think we have time for one more or two more. All right, let's hear it. So I heard all three of you talk about doing your job really well and you get promoted. And my company, we've grown 10 times in the last five years.

And I've promoted a lot of people, a lot of women like you. And sometimes when you promote somebody, because they were really good at what they did, they're not great leaders. You three are all leaders in your company. Did you have training to get that? I'm trying to figure it out right now. do I have to train? What am I missing?

That is such a good question. We have done that so many times at our organization. Take a really good salesperson and put them in charge of other salespeople. Take a really good web developer and put them over in leadership over other web developers. Listen, leadership is different. And especially at our organization, like you can imagine, like we expect our leaders to be a certain way. And they're very high expectations. And not everyone wants that.

Like if someone comes to me, and says they want to be in leadership, I try to dig in and find out what's really motivating them because you guys, most of the time, they want one of two things. They want more income or they want affirmation. They want to be recognized. Well, we can achieve those two things other ways without putting them in charge of leading people. Do you understand what I'm saying? And so before you even put someone in a position like that, find out what their motivation is. Like, are they really passionate about growing people and pouring into them? Is that more important to them, or do they really want to just do their job well and be recognized for that and paid well

for that? You can weed out a lot of what you're talking about by figuring that out on the front end. And the other thing where it's worked the best, I think, consistently, is where people on the team are already looking to that person just naturally. They're just doing it already, and it's like, oh, okay, oh, maybe they need to lead the team. Like, it. It just happens really naturally. The team goes to them to answer their questions and to seek direction. And that's where it's worked the best. Do you have a training, like when you go from a doer to a leader, is there a training internally?

Yes. So actually, we're working on that right now. All of our folks go through our on-trade leadership material is something that we're working on. The best analogy I can give you is we treat it like a gym. So if you took somebody in the gym and you said lift 300 pounds, they would hurt themselves, right? But if you took them in there and every week you incrementally increase the amount of responsibilities on their plate, eventually they could probably lift a lot more weight, right? So what are those 20 pound weights that you can start giving to somebody to give them non-fatal ways to practice? So we have a staff meeting.

We have 850 team members. And some of the things that I like to do, some people call it torture, I call it 20 pound weights, is you give a staff meeting announcement. You know, you practice. And before they get to that, I'm having them practice in front of our team. So we have a team stand up every Thursday morning, and so I'll have somebody give an update from their area. And you can imagine it's a little intimidating standing up in front of 60 of your peers. So what are the things that you can do to give those people 20 pound weights today in really non-fatal ways? And I'll give people a heads up.

So let's say we're going into a Dave meeting, and one of my leaders is going to present for the first time. I don't want Dave to think that I am completely unplugged, but I do want to put them a little bit in the hot seat. So I will email Dave ahead of time. I'll say, hey, I'm coming in with social. and so. I want to start transitioning so that they fill more ownership over this thing. We've worked on this plan, but I want them to present it to you. And I would love to have any feedback you can so I can make sure that I can coach them appropriately. So that way, he knows we're coming in and I haven't just checked out. But at some point, I've got to start putting them in the hot seat. They've got

to start feeling a little more of that fire. So I would really recommend 20 pound weights. If you're looking for a good book for people to read, there's a book called How to Lead when you're not in charge. It's written by a clay script. And it's a great read that if you have team members that are wanting to grow in their responsibilities, it talks through kind of growing in your influence. As Jen mentioned, most of the people who get promoted at Ramsey, they are actually pretty much doing that job. And then the title and the compensation is a formality of the situation.

And I explain that to people right off the bat. We don't give you this like nighting where we go, okay, you are now director of this thing. And here, now everyone has to listen to you. It is like, you got to earn that thing. and then we will come back around and give you the title and formalize it. So I hope that was helpful. Awesome. This will be our last question.

Hi. What do you do in your free time to try to grow as a leader, whether it's podcasts or books or certain role models? All the above. I think if you're not growing in the different areas of your life, it's really hard to grow as a leader. And I think that starts first and foremost spiritually, and then, you know, kind of listening to, I listen to a lot of podcasts.

I love audiobooks. If I really love an audiobook, then I actually get the hardcover and read it. But I listen as well. Like in our organization, as you can imagine, we have a lot of folks are constantly looking for new things and new ideas and new books. And so I can talk to anybody on our team and just say, hey, what are you reading? What's interesting right now? And I get great recommendations.

A group of our leaders about a year ago started really in a disciplined way. We agreed and hold each other accountable to on a regular basis reading, praying, and journaling about our personal lives and about work. And we come in once a week and we share from that journaling time. And that is so transformative. Like if you don't take anything else out of here, start journaling if you don't do that. Journal as often as you can, but don't be legalistic about it. set expectations for yourself that are just not attainable.

But like, you've got to dump your thoughts out on a page. Luke Lefevre has the quote, I wish he was here, so he knew I was giving him this recognition. But how do you expect to be a thought leader if you don't take the time to have a thought? And so many of us run so hard and fast all the time, we don't sit down and take the time to have a thought. And by the way, write it down. And there's so much stuff in your head until you start writing,

you don't know what's in there. And a lot of that can be very God-inspired. if you're being prayerful about it. And so that's been truly transformative for us and helped us grow. I have three little kids. Hi, it's Jen. This the other day I said, Jen, when do you have time to read? I don't have three little kids anymore.

That time period. So I will tell you, I do read books and I do listen to podcasts, but my number one way of growing is I will go out and find somebody else who's really awesome at something that I'm not good out. And I'll just be like, hey, can I take you to breakfast and can I just pick your brain? And I'm having this, you know, I'm struggling with this thing. And you're really good at it. Can you just tell me how you do it?

And so my number one way of getting better at things is just relationally reaching out to other people and asking them to help me with things. I do read books, but I will say not as frequently as I hope to when I no longer have a two-year-old, a five-year-old, and eight-year-old. Nice job to George, Sarah, Suzanne, and Jen. Really good stuff. Just another sample of the Entree Leadership content that we bring to Entree Leadership Summit. it. Well, speaking of, is it like a theme here today, guys? We've got a lot of names that have been on this program. We got a lot of familiar faces and voices. How about our friends Brian and Shannon Miles, owners of Belay? They were featured most recently on episode 325. They've been on the program many times. We love them. They are killing. You don't talk about entree leaders. They've been coming to our events for a long time, and now we're excited to partner with them because they're the best when it comes to helping you They have figured it out, their entire company about helping many women leaders do their best even from a distance. And so you heard them talk about delegating results, not tasks.

And this is huge. So if you delegate and people don't listen, now what? So this is a big leadership issue, not just the function of, well, I need a delegate. Can you delegate to where people actually do what you need them to do? This is a huge barrier. And so they're going to help you with this idea of delegating, but delegating effectively to get this resource from belay and overcome the barriers that are holding you in your organization back from effective delegation.

Click the link in the show notes. It's free. Why in the world wouldn't you do it? You need to be delegating better. Start doing it now. All right. That's our breaking news sound because we do have some breaking news. And by the way, this is breaking news, not fake news.

So pay attention. We're doing something new. Every week we're going to post a link in the show notes for you to rate the episode and submit your feedback. Now, for those of you that want to say anything negative about me, it will automatically kick that comment out. So don't even try it because I am very thin skin. So I'm just trying to help you all know that right now. But for any other feedback, that should work, we really do. We're having so fun.

But we do want to know what you think, because we want to bring. you what you want. We're going to give you the high quality content you've come to know and expect. So your voice on that allows us to serve you best. So as I said, every week we'll post that link in the show notes and give us your feedback. So do it because it'll help us serve you better. All right, that looks like that's going to do it. So on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon. Hey folks, I want to make you aware that we have other great podcast from Ramsey Solutions. Here's a sample of Christy Wright's Business Boutique podcast.

Hey, I'm Christy Wright, and I help women all over the country take their ideas and passions and hobbies and turn them into profitable businesses. If you have an idea in your head or a dream in your heart and you've ever wondered if you could make money doing it, I'm here to help. Join us on the Business Boutique podcast where we are equipping women to make money doing what they love. If you'd like to hear full episodes, just search Business Boutique in iTunes or go to businessboutique.com.