EntreLeadership - #330: Are You Playing to Your Strengths? with Dough Hirsch

Episode Date: July 8, 2019

Doug Hirsch, Co-Founder and Co-CEO of GoodRx, isn’t afraid to tackle really complex problems, but he’s the first to admit that he doesn’t have all the answers. His solution? Focusing on what he���s good at and then surrounding himself with really smart people who can handle the rest. It’s that kind of strategic thinking that has made GoodRx a runaway success, helping people save over $9 billion in prescription drug expenses since its launch in 2011. Tune in as Doug shares his motivation for bringing transparency to healthcare pricing, the lessons he’s learned along the way, and his advice for entrepreneurs everywhere.   entreleadership.com/podcast GoodRx website We want your opinion! Review this episode.   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why is a product that costs a dollar $850? It defies sort of the way we normally think about how we purchase things. It's something that we should fix in this country, but also a tremendous opportunity for us to do better. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is Entree Leadership. Now here's your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the broadcast of leaders, by leaders, for leaders. Thank you so much for joining the conversation.

Here's what we've got coming up for you. Our feature conversation is a true innovator, Doug Hirsch, who is the founder and CEO of GoodRX. So let's get right to it, shall we? So Doug, a little brief bio on Doug, one of the first 30 employees at Yahoo. And so this is a guy who was obviously an innovative online environment. If you think about the early days of Yahoo. And so he was involved with creating communities like GeoCities. and Yahoo groups. So always been on the front lines of what we've seen as the early

pioneer days of the internet. In 2005, he went on to join Facebook as vice president of product. So then in 2011, he saw an opportunity. And you're going to hear our conversation. We really break this down about how he saw an opportunity. And I think this is great for leaders of all shapes, sizes, roles, whatever it is, that you are leading, where you're leading, because this is really good to say, hey, are we constantly looking for opportunities to solve big problems? I think that is the true formula for a breakthrough business. So let's listen in as I talk with Doug Hirsch. I want to start with the Y behind GoodRX. I love these type of stories because a vision is so important to a successful company. And I'd love for you to take us back wherever

you want to, but sometime before we launch Good RX, before you do that, what was the why? What was the situation involved with this needs to happen? So let's do this. I've always been attracted to really messy problems. I spent much of my life trying to take disorder and turn it into order. And, you know, in the case of Good RX, I was with two good friends of mine, and we had decided we wanted to work together in some shape or form. And then I had this bizarre experience of going to a pharmacy and being presented with the cost of a prescription, which was about $500, and far more than I'd expected to pay. And this concept that, like, there was no information available to consumers just blew my mind. You know, if you think about the world we live in today where

you can Google anything and you can get information on pretty much anything, and health care remained this black box, this mystery where we walk in and we stand there and a guy with a computer just says a number, it just seemed broken. And so I guess the why for me was just, could we unravel this? Could we unravel the mystery of health care pricing where all Americans were just in the dark and had no information? And that was the sort of spark that ignited this odyssey. What'd you find out when you started unwrapping this? Well, as with all entrepreneurial experiences, you first get a whole bunch of people who tell you what a waste of time the whole thing is. Of course. We reached out to a bunch of different people and a bunch of different health care related aspects, whether they be

people who worked at pharma companies or people worked at pharmacies. And they all had information that was either wrong or just, they were just super negative. They were like, you're wasting your time, every American has insurance, nobody really cares about this problem, it's impossible to get this information, no one will work with you. And, you know, there was a lot of negative in the beginning, which for me is sort of fodder and fuel for, I just want to do this that much more. If that many people are saying, no, there's got to be something here. So we also found out that there were about 14 states that had websites that were publishing pricing information. And so we went out to look at those websites, and seven of them didn't work. And the other

seven were totally wrong. And, you know, it's this messiness that I find just addictive. And it was just so fun to get into this process and to take all this, uh, both pessimism and misinformation and say, couldn't we do better? You know, because it just seems like there had to be a better way. And I also love being in spaces where there's no competition. I'm not, I'm super insecure. So this, you know, being in a Coke versus Pepsi game where I, you know, we have the same product. I'm just trying to outmarket the next guy. That's not me. I prefer to take a wide, open spaces and even as messy as they can be and try and sort them out. Is it safe to assume that you initially saw a problem and as you go to discover the source

of the problem, the vision creates itself for this company? It's not like you had this whole idea figured out. It's just you had a problem in your brain and it bothered you enough to go look into it. And that's what I want people to hear. You don't have to have this grand vision initially. It's just if there's a passion to solve a problem, go and, and it's going to take you where you're supposed to go. Is that a fair assumption?

You're 100% right. You know, I didn't know much about health care when we started this Odyssey. I used to work at Yahoo and Facebook. I'm not a health care lifer. I didn't know much about health care statistics in this country. I just knew that I was facing something that just was unacceptable. That there's no way that the American consumer, imagine any other product where you, imagine you walked into a sporting goods store and you said,

I want to buy that baseball bat, and they said, well, we can't tell you how much it is until you hand us your card. it just seems so broken. And for me, it was, I didn't quite understand the big picture of how much we could help the rest of America at that time. When I started digging in and realizing how huge this problem is and, of course, how huge the opportunity to help in this country is, that's when I got really, really excited. And I think that's what's excited to be and ignited me to continue to pursue this is, I mean, put myself aside, every American needs help. And it's really, that's the passion that drives this. Yeah. So for people who aren't as familiar with good or X, I want to kind of keep this in the context of where you are on this journey. So you get all these nose and you keep diving into this thing. What is the source or sources or what's the context that kind of creates this giant behemoth that is just completely out of control, like the cost of prescriptions? Healthcare in America defies common sense. You know, I think most people are used to fluid marketplace economics in this country. You know, you,

you buy a product for X and then you sell it in your store for Y. That's what we all learn growing up. It's like supply and demand, economics 101. Health care doesn't work that way in this country because it's this weird hybrid of for-profit industry and government regulation and insurance and contracts and complexity that basically throw all that stuff out the window. I can't tell you how many times I have to explain to someone that, you know, why is a product that cost a dollar, why are they charging $850? It defies sort of of the way we normally think about how we purchase things, which is both a terrible thing and something that we should fix in this country, but also a tremendous opportunity for us to do

better and to try to bring those marketplace economics back into a space that is so skewed. And so in the world of health care, as you may know, you have, or specifically in prescriptions, you have pharmacies that obviously sell the products, and you have insurance companies. They're actually called pharmacy benefit managers on the other side who have these very complicated contracts with the pharmacies. And that relationship can create all sorts of, again, non-market-based pricing. And so we came in and just said, hey, can we provide consumers with information? One thing I've learned in all my years of working on consumer-focused things on the internet

is people just want information. You know, before we talk about savings, let's just talk about handing someone information so they feel more empowered to make decisions that are in their best interests. And so that's sort of the basis. I can get into more detail, but that's kind of where all came from. because I want people to, because I think there's some entrepreneurs out there that are listening. And just by listening to your story and learning how this all came about, you just kept digging and kept pushing. So that's the initial thing.

You weren't trying to solve the cost problem per se. You were trying to get the consumer more aware, which means they're more powerful. Am I following this correctly? An aware consumer is a more in control or, let's say, empowered consumer, yes? The first version of Gooder X didn't actually have savings information in it. That's what I thought. It was just information. It was just saying, hey, if you go to Pharmacy A, you'll pay X, and if you go to Pharmacy A, you'll pay Y.

And we didn't know about the existence of many of these tools that consumers could use to find savings. We were literally just out on a data-grabbing mission. We were a bunch of engineering and tech geeks who thought, ooh, we can index a few websites and turn it around and make it easier for a consumer to see that information. So that was kind of phase one. What was your revenue model in phase one? There wasn't one. That's what I thought. You know, again, I know it may sound sort of flippant to say these things.

Oftentimes when you hear these backstories, people will color them. In all honesty, we just love this problem. We love that there was, we knew that health care was a big marketplace. We certainly knew that there was lots of room to help real people with real problems. But it was mostly just this data exercise of could we get in and could we decipher these complex contracts and relationships to come up with a really simple thing, which is just to tell a consumer how much their health care should cost. And, you know, it seems so obvious in retrospect, but it was so much work in everything.

effort to decipher it. And even to this day, we have billions of prices. We have data scientists here. We're constantly working to make sure that we're telling you the exact right price at the exact right pharmacy for the exact right drug. And it may look simple on good or X. The underneath is wildly complex. That's right. Well, I think it would be fun. So take it so you get going and obviously you establish some credibility, right? You got the eyeballs. The consumer's going, okay, I trust this. This is good information. That's your momentum. Just take us through. I don't care what pace you take us. Because I think this is so much to learn. And I'll come back and kind of dive in.

But I love this story because I think this is the heart of entrepreneurship, solving a problem. And I love the crusade mentality. Let me also just congratulate you. I think this is the epitome of a crusade mentality. So take us from phase one to where you are now. Just give us a quick summary. What did it look like? How did it begin to move and change?

One of the key things about, I think, being an entrepreneur is also just not knowing any better. That's so true. In hindsight, we like to say, oh, I knew it. exactly what I was doing. We didn't know what we were doing. No, no successful entrepreneur ever did. Well, again, it took us a while to even understand who the players were that were defining what pricing looked like. We kept our head down for many years. We didn't actually reach out and talk to pharmacies. We didn't talk to the insurance companies because we didn't know what to say. We figured they would either shoot us down or ignore us or, you know, and so it really was almost

a lesson in just not knowing any better or not listening to the naysayers and just saying, we're just going to do this because it's what's right and it's the best experience. And we were lucky enough that we tapped into something, which is Americans' frustration with the ridiculous cost of health care, and ultimately establish those relationships, which we have today. But if you go back to, say, 2011 when we first put the product up, we were really, again, just trying to inform consumers on how much their health care should cost, which even to this day, I mean, while we've made some progress,

there's so much more that we can do. Today, a consumer still can't really easily look up what their co-pay will be if they use their insurance at a pharmacy. Good luck trying to figure out what a procedure at a hospital will cost or an emergency room visit. We get lots of news stories about it, but the actual science, as in what you will actually pay when you actually show up to do that, remains in the dark for most people. Why is that? I'm an interrupt. We'll get back to the story, but I think this is interesting. Why is that? Is it because you've got a lot of power players that are making up the cost as they go? Yeah, and I want to be clear. not that any party is necessarily going out of their way to be evil. They're all doing what the system

has designed them to do, which is you have for-profit pharmacies, you have for-profit insurance companies, you have companies that are often responsible for your insurance, that of course they're just trying to control costs and be able to provide their employees with a reasonable benefit. But the way all these people do this is they either have to, you know, charge more for something or, you know, or deny coverage or pay out less, right? And you get these machinations, which get put together, and it results in just incredibly complex relationships. So if you take, you know, if you and I both work at the same company and we show up at the same pharmacy, we may still pay different prices because I have a deductible and you don't,

or, you know, one of your kids or your wife went and had some services, which meant you satisfied a threshold, I haven't, or your doctor got an approval, and mine didn't. There's so many moving parts in every transaction, which is why, you know, to some extent what we built at good or X is we've said, we're just going to end run that whole thing. we're just going to say, hey, a pharmacy is willing to accept $8 for this drug. You pay eight, pharmacy gets eight. Ignore everybody else because it's just too complicated.

And that's one of the reasons for our success, I think. There's no question. Okay, so I interrupted you. So that's where you were. You just kind of gave us the end result. I mean, that's what's been so beautiful. How did you get to that point where we able to work directly with the pharmacy to go, wait a second.

What are you willing to, like, what's your heart cost? Because is the pharmacy another silly question, Doug, excuse my ignorance, but it usually makes for a good interview? is the pharmacy, so if I go to Walgreens or CVS, they're buying those drugs from the actual pharmaceutical company. So you got, that's where it starts. Then they're paying for it. And then they're getting it at a cost and then they're making a profit selling it to me when I show up. Correct? Sort of. And again, this is where things go off the track from standard economics and supply chain. You know, a pharmacy will acquire a drug for a certain amount, usually from a distributor.

But then the pharmacy also has contracts with both private insurance companies as well as Medicare and Medicaid, as well, government entities, that guarantee a certain discount. So let's take an example. Let's say that you and I have commercial insurance. We work for a company and they provide our insurance, right? So we get a discounted rate. We pay a copay at the pharmacy. And then our employer, or our employer's plan, pays an additional amount, right? But that's based on a contract between an insurance company and a pharmacy, which gives the insurance company.

say 80% off that list price, right? And so the pharmacy in order to make some money may say, hey, I'm going to charge $200 so that 80% off is, what, $40, and I can still afford to make money. Now, in the old days, this didn't matter. If you and I were doing this interview, say, 15 years ago, you and I had a $10 copay. It was the same at all the pharmacies. There was no reason for all this ridiculousness, right? But then what happened is insurance got a lot worse. I'm old enough to remember. When we started good our acts, it was just before the Affordable Care Act was coming into play. One of the naysayers, many of the naysayers, came to us and said, you're wasting your time trying to figure out drug price economics because every American's going to have insurance and it's all going to be perfect and everything's going to be free. A lot of people actually said that. As you obviously know, that's not where we're at today. It turned out that while more Americans have insurance insurance, almost every American is underinsured, right? Meaning they often have huge deductibles or the number of drugs that are covered by their insurance plans have gone through the roof. And so you end up getting exposed to this crazy, crazy high price that was never intended for a consumer to. see, it was just this contractual fluke because you were supposed to pay that $10 copay,

but you're not doing that anymore. And I don't want to get too into the weeds because we could talk about... Yeah, no, I understand. But suffice to say that consumers are being exposed to pricing that was never meant for consumers. CVS does not expect you're going to pay $800 for a $5 drug, but they also can't, they can't on their own say, you know what, you seem like a good guy we're going to knock that price down. That actually would violate both their contracts with insurance as well as with the government. And so pharmacies don't have as much control over drug pricing as they'd like to. I understand that. Imagine if you had a store and you couldn't charge your own prices, you had to play by this strange rulebook. And so oftentimes they

need a third party to help them bring that pricing down to a fair level. That's one of the things we do among others. Okay, good. All right, so let's get back to that because the business model is beginning to evolve. But thank you for giving us that. I think that's really interesting context. Because again, here you guys are. You're coming in and you've got all this wrangling you're trying to do. So it's already a mess, as you said, as we started our conversation, now you're trying to help unravel it. So as you get into this thing, the landscape's changing, big players, naysayers, nobody's trying to help you. At what point do you realize, okay, the model that we have now needs to evolve a little bit,

and then what did you do to go about doing that? I think we knew things were broken in the beginning. You know, again, starting with my own personal experience, where I had gone to a doctor, and my doctor handed me a prescription. We never talked about cost, and then I show up at the pharmacy that's $500. You know, the average American has less than $400 available in their name. That's right. So imagine the average American gets hit with, you know, a $500 prescription, they'll just walk away.

To be honest, we've seen a lot of data where if it's over $20, the average America will walk away. So we knew the problem was there because Americans shouldn't have to pay that kind of money for their health care. And so we started to dig in and we found out about these, these, today if you go to Goder X, you'll see them we call them coupons. But these alternative mechanisms that pharmacies and insurers have where someone who doesn't have insurance can get a significant discount, often about 85%. But no one had ever deciphered them. There were lots of marketers out there who had basically said, hey, take this card and show it at the pharmacy and good luck, maybe you'll save something. But again, it didn't tell you how much, and it didn't tell you if you'd save at all. Well, we said, well, what if we can decipher these

things? What if we can get all these various programs out there, put them all together, and show the consumer the best way to purchase their prescription. That may be one of these cards. it also might just be a low cash price. So, for example, Walmart has a $4 and a $10 drug list. Some pharmacies have membership clubs, you know, savings clubs where you can sign up and save. We actually power some of those clubs today for some pharmacies. But our attitude was just we're going to bring all the information together, empower the consumer with all the information they need,

and then they can make the best choice. And that's what we are today. Okay. I love that. Now, I'm going to dive into some of the leadership stuff because I think the audience has got good context here. And again, you can go do the research on Good RX and their story. and see what they're doing. But the thing I want to ask first is,

because I think it comes right out of what we've been talking about, you're a Yahoo guy, all right? So I already bragged on Doug, told you all about his background. So you go from Yahoo to Facebook, and now you get in health care? I love this because you didn't know anything about health care. You didn't need to know anything about health care. You guys, one thing that you talk about and you espouse,

and I think this is where I want to start here for leaders, is that you used language that other people were using. It's just a different context. So you didn't have to become a health care expert. You just were a really good problem solver. And so then you said, okay, I got to go learn more about this new problem. But the reality is you had a group of smart people. And even you yourself had no experience.

Talk about that and how important that is to a startup. The smart people experience, not needed. Let's just have some smart people that know how to talk like everybody else. I think every successful experience I've had in my life has been exactly that, has been surrounded by intelligent people who are just passionate and have the energy to figure something out. You know, the so-called experts that I've run into there in my life don't know what they think. In fact, I'm constantly checking myself to make sure that I don't walk around acting like I'm an expert in this stuff because then I'll be that guy that gets disrupted.

You know, I think even at Yahoo, when I shut up at Yahoo, there was no such thing as like an internet product manager because there was no real internet until then. You know, even at Facebook where there was very limited social media. And we were kind of inventing it from scratch. You know, the playbook that I've seen work over and over again has just been finding a bunch of smart, passionate people and keep attacking the problem and keep hitting it, make mistakes until you end up with something that works.

You know, and we can have a long conversation about when to give up. That's a tough one. But I find that when I'm surrounded by smart people, eventually we stumble on to the right answer. Twice now in this conversation, you said you're insecure, which is fascinating. Number one, most people I interview never say that, even though we all are. So either you're very transparent or you've mentioned that on purpose for a reason

and how that drives you. Since we all have some insecurity, I'm really curious why you've mentioned that twice and how that feeds what you're doing and how you do it. I think that part of entrepreneurship is always feeling like someone is right behind you trying to take your lunch. Okay. Gotcha. And I feel like from the beginning of my career. I'm not saying it's healthy, by the way. It doesn't necessarily lead to a great lifestyle or good vacations. But, you know, for example,

we have a very active competitor monitoring group of people here at Good RX. I can remember both at Facebook and Yahoo, we were in a constant panic about who the next person was that was popping up that was going to eat our lunch. You know, you look back and you think, that company, really?

That company you've never heard of? Like, you guys are worried about them. We were worried about them. We were really worried about them. And I find that if you, as long as you can channel that energy in the right direction, you get incredible results. It builds an urgency. I mean, look, I've been at GoerX eight years now. I feel more a desire to move quickly than ever because the bigger we get, the more people notice, the more potential competitors, the more questions.

To me, that urgency and that insecurity build into something that makes an amazing entrepreneurial experience where you just won't quit. I love it. I think your answer ties into what you said earlier is you don't want to get to the point where you feel you're so smart that you get disrupted. I thought that was a very insightful comment you made in passing. Don't miss what Doug said there. But, you know, if I can throw it, what I find interesting these days is, you know, now I run a company of almost 200 people. And what I'm trying to learn, to be honest, is a different skill these days, which is to realize that I don't have all the answers. I'm actually spending a lot of time these days keeping my mouth shut because there are a lot more smarter people here than I am.

And my way is not always the right way. And so I'm actually, that's my sort of project of, I'd say the last few years has to been to grow these other entrepreneurs and to let them pursue their urgencies and insecurities to sort of ride that. Because otherwise, you know, I feel like it can be really hard as you transition to a bigger company to let go of that and let other people take on some of that burden. Well, I think that's really good. I was going to ask you, how is it different from your previous roles where you were in leadership at some big time companies? We've already mentioned their names.

and now your CEO or co-CEO, how is that different as this thing grows to now? You've got a very different leadership relationship with those 200 people. I think it's really hard for incredible, both entrepreneurs and talented individuals, to become managers. You know, I can think of many people, including myself, who, like, I feel like I'm reasonably good at figuring out product. I'm reasonably good at figuring out human basic needs and how to channel that into an app or a website or an experience for a consumer. I think I'm an awful manager because, again, I see my way and I have to do a good job of educating others so that they can either build out my vision or, frankly, go with their own. I see that transition being very hard. As I think through the companies I've worked at, we've had incredible solo performers that we put them in management roles, and it doesn't work out well.

And I'm very careful of that. I limit the number of people that I manage because, again, I just don't think I'm a great manager. I think my co-founder is, and I prefer to focus on the product vision versus sort of the, I'll call it the politics of management. It's something I need to work on, to be honest, because I love being an entrepreneur. I struggle with managing. Well, but I think that's very liberating. It has to be liberating for you to say that because everybody else knows that. You know what I mean? Like all your team know that you're not a great manager. So I love that you call that out and you're playing to your strengths. This is an age-old concept. So I applaud you. I think leaders you need to listen in what was just said there.

Hey, you got to know what you do well and surround yourself by other people who manage better. Let me ask you this. You did say something a moment ago. You said you're trying to kind of listen more and keep your mouth closed. What does that look like within that context of 200 people, whether it be the small amount of people you manage, which you didn't mention? But are you getting out there intentionally amongst the other 200 and doing a lot of listening? That is a big chunk of my job today. In fact, it's funny, three days a week, I do what I call iced tea walks, and that's because I love iced tea and I like to walk.

And I grab some random person at this company, and we just spend a half hour talking about the industry, what they do, what I do, what we should be doing together. I share everything with everybody. And sometimes people are like, really, are you telling them the most sensitive company information? And I'm like, well, how do you expect them to succeed unless they know everything? So, for example, we have board meetings quarterly. We then have, right after the board meeting, we do an all-hands meeting for the whole. whole company where we walk through the entire deck that we pitched the board. And so every employee at this company knows everything that we're doing. And the other challenge that I have is I'm always

trying to understand the user experience. I'm trying to understand what the average American who's coming to our product who's struggling to afford the cost of their meds. Like I need to understand that and know that. So that means I'm spending tons of time with our patient advocates. That's what we call customer care here. You name it. Like anybody who wanders into my office gets more than they bargain for because I'll spend three hours digging into our product and our experience and our marketing and how to do it better because I want to get that banter. I feel like also friction causes the best product, meaning I want two smart people to go at it and the best answer will rise to the top. So how does that listening turn into communication with your other, like say,

your co-founder or some of the other leaders say, okay, here's what we're hearing from the customer, which is so important, versus listening to maybe these other players in the industry, the pharmacies, there's just a lot of players, there's legislation, there's all kinds of things I'm sure you guys are constantly trying to listen to as far as what's moving in the culture versus we at the end user, the customer. How do you all take that and decide whether or not that's going to change what we do or how we do it? What's interesting about our business, and I even hesitate to use the word business, because I don't think of us as a business. I don't think of us as a company.

From day one here, we've just said, we're going to do what's best for the American consumer. And hopefully it'll work out for us. You know, healthcare is such a big market. There's so many different ways that people can make money. I don't worry about that. Maybe this is a legacy of my Yahoo! We had the whole, if you build it, they will come kind of thing.

I think in healthcare, if you start with the consumer first and come up with a solution that works for them, you eventually have enough folks here that you can figure out something, some non-compromising way to be able to have a sustainable business. But with that lens, it makes it really easy to figure out what we need to do. So when we're talking to a pharmacy or even a pharmaceutical manufacturer, that's actually a great example.

Pharmaceutical manufacturers, people love to villainize manufacturers. I don't have a strong opinion on it. I only look at them and say, can you help me get a drug for less money to a consumer? If you can, you're my friend, and if you can't, you're not my friend. And so I just bring that lens to all of our both business development relationships as well as our product and even our employees, which is how do we get the best solution for the consumer? because that will ultimately be the biggest win for us. Oh, that's good.

Now, we've got to let you go, but you just said something that made me think of a final question. I'll just give it to you and let you encourage our audience. What I heard is you're keeping this thing really simple. What I just heard was a very simple filter in a complex world, and you said it, it was as messy as it gets, the industry you're in, and yet you keep it simple, and the simple grid or the simple filter is what guides all your decisions? Is that what I'm hearing? Is that also great advice for our audience?

Yeah, you should be able to describe your challenge in, you know, literally four words, you know. And I think when I think of our business and our mission, it has to be, don't bite off more than you can chew. It has to be something that a consumer can understand quickly and then figure out a place to slot it into their life, right? There's only so much attention that anyone's going to give to something. And so we need to be able to solve a core need, a need that a consumer definitely, you know, values deeply, and do it in a way that's simple and straightforward where a consumer, is like, why didn't this exist before? And that's that test that we use and it's worked out for us so far. He is Doug Hirsch. He is the co-founder and co-CEO-C-O of GoodRX. Doug, I know you got a million

things going on and your time is your most valuable commodity. And so we want to tell you that we very much appreciate the time you spent with us. We're much better for it. And we want to say thanks. Thank you so much. Appreciate it. Big thanks to Doug Hirsch for hanging out with us. I had the sense talking to him the whole time. He was very engaging. That his brain is always thinking about big, big things. And really fun to talk to a guy like Doug who is trying to do something that could shape the entire consumer landscape. That's how big, good R-X is.

And I took away a lot from that. I think that may be a listen two or three times to pick up on some of the things that he said. Really, really good stuff. All right. Speaking of good stuff, did you think it was good stuff? Now, we told you about this. Each podcast now, we are providing a link in the show notes. So this episode's show notes has a link.

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It's right there as you're looking at the episodes. you can share with one click to people that you think might enjoy the episode. So all those things I just told you about, it's all about your feedback because we want to serve you. If you aren't happy with what we're giving you, then we won't continue to be able to do the program because it is for you. So thank you so very much. On behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, we truly value. Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.

Hey folks, I want to make you aware that we have other great podcasts from Ramsey Solutions. Here's a sample of the Ken Coleman Show. According to a recent Gallup poll, nearly 70% of Americans are disengaged at work. If you dread going into work every Monday morning and you're just trying to make it to the weekend, the Ken Coleman show is for you. Everyone has a sweet spot. Your sweet spot is at the intersection of your greatest talent and greatest passion. We will help you discover what it is you will.

were born to do and then we'll help you create a plan to make your dream job a reality. You matter and you have what it takes. Join the conversation on the Ken Coleman Show. To hear full episodes, just search Ken Coleman in iTunes or go to Ken Colemanshow.com.