EntreLeadership - #340: 4 Qualities You Need to Lead with Kat Cole

Episode Date: September 16, 2019

When it comes to climbing the corporate ladder, there’s the traditional way—you know, steady promotions over a long period of time—and then there’s the Kat Cole way. In only two years, she went from waiting tables at Hooters to opening franchises around the world for the restaurant chain. And she was just warming up. By age 31, she was leading Cinnabon out of the recession and into becoming a billion-dollar brand. Tune in as Kat, now COO and President of North America for FOCUS Brands, breaks down the four qualities every leader must optimize to perform at their best.   entreleadership.com/podcast Follow Kat Cole on Twitter FOCUS Brands EntreLeadership Summit 2020 Join the Intentionality Challenge Virtual bookkeeping services by Belay Review this episode for a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In every industry and occupation, there is one constant change. As a result, the thing that will set you apart in business and leadership is your ability to thrive in the midst of an unpredictable marketplace. You and I can either create the wave of change, ride the wave of change, or we will be crushed by the wave of change. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host Alex Judd, and today's guest, one of our Summit 2020 speakers, stands out as someone whose career exemplifies what it means to lead through change. Kat Cole is the CEO and president of North America at Focus Brands. She has spearheaded the growth of several multi-million dollar brands, including Antianz, Carvel, Sinabon, Jamba Juice, McAllister's, Moe's Southwestern Grill, and Schlotchke's Deli. But Kat's starting line looked very different from this. destination, and her journey was far from conventional. I was born in Jacksonville, Florida. I'm the

oldest of three girls. I have two younger sisters. When I was nine years old, my mom came to me and said, that's it, I'm done, we're leaving, which meant we were leaving my father. So at the age of nine, with two younger sisters, six and three, we left my father. I'll tell more of that story, likely at the event, and ended up a child of a single parent and taking on a leadership role of my family at a very young age. As a result, I started working at a very young age at 15, hostess at 17, a waitress at 18, first person in my family to get into college. By 19, I was opening franchises around the world. By 20, I had opened and traveled for so many business launches that I was failing college. So I dropped out of college. I took a corporate gig at the age of

20, all still in Jacksonville, then moved to Atlanta and began a career in corporate leadership in the restaurant franchising and global retail industry. By 26, I was vice president of that company, Hooters Restaurant, stewing about 800 million in revenue. And I grew as the company grew, and then ended up being very active in the industry, volunteering for mentoring other leaders, advancing women in leadership, got very involved in both local and global humanitarian work, and that very much rounded out my global perspective and my leadership experience. And when I was 31, went to run Cineban as president and was running that global brand. As a first time president helped turn it around out of the recession, ran that business and grew it for four years.

Again, I grew as the company grew. The parent company of Cinebond's focus brand, so I became the president of global channels for focus brands after turning around Cinnibon. And a little while after that became president and COO of North America. So today I run all seven of our brands and our eighth president that reports to me, runs the licensing division, and get to work with brands as indulgent and delicious as Cinebon and Carvel and brands as sort of center of the plate or healthier for you as Mo Southwest Grill and Jamba Juice, the largest smoothie chain in the world. I'm a mom of two at this point, a 22 month old at home and one coming in two weeks.

And so by the time I'm at the event, thanks. By the time I'm at the event, I will be a mom of two. And so that's the story. My goodness. In just about two minutes, you just took us through your entire life story. The amount that you have accomplished in such a short time is really remarkable. I'm curious to know when you were in the middle of that race, did it feel? feel like it was just moving faster than you could control? Or how did you feel as you were kind of

moving up and moving through that process? No, it never felt out of control. It felt fast because it was fast. Things were changing every six months. But that's the nature of retail and of the industries that I'm in. And so my advancement and my evolution of taking on new roles was happening at a very similar pace as the industry itself was changing. So it really never felt out of sync. It all felt very right. But definitely it was fast. I was in a new position every almost two years, leading either a different team or a different function. And of course, traveling around the world, that was a lot of uniqueness. You know, different cultures, different languages, different teams, every couple of months. And at a very young age, processing that leadership responsibility

and what is required to launch businesses in those incredibly varied environments. So, yeah, it felt fast, but never out of control. It all felt right on and on purpose. Never reckless. Do you think it was something from your childhood or what equipped you to be able to move at that pace and step into those new roles as you were climbing so successfully? Probably what it is for many people. A little bit of nature.

My nature is to be curious. and I'm very comfortable with trying new things. Certainly my childhood being disrupted by needing to become a leader at a young age, advanced my comfort and my capabilities in having responsibility, and then put those things together, the environment and nature and nurture, and the environment and the opportunities that came my way, it continued to hone and build that muscle of being very comfortable with change and chaos. You know, the more you do something, the more comfortable you get with it, even if that thing you're doing more of is different every time. Yeah. I think part of your story, you started kind of in that whole story. You were a waitress at Hooters. Is that correct?

Yeah. Hostess at 17. And then once I turned 18 and was old enough to pour beer, I became a waitress. I've heard you tell this story a little bit, but was it a little bit of right place, right time? Or what were the skills, abilities, and qualities that you had? that made you stand out in that organization and really start to rise up and people promote you, ultimately? Certainly there is a part of that equation, which I always share, which is the company was growing. You don't get disproportionate growth opportunities if a company has no growth. It's a pretty basic thing. And so credit where credit is due, the company itself had a tremendous run of expansion in the United States and around the world.

and they needed people inside the company who understood different jobs in the company to help them expand. That is not unusual. It's very common in any business, and it's common in retail. If the business is growing, they need people who know the business to help them expand the business in other areas. So that's really not unusual, and that had nothing to do with me. That was the condition of the business at the time. What was the me part of the equation is that I, in fact, had worked every job in the business. So I was curious and responsive and helpful.

And in the process of being curious, responsive, and helpful, I had worked as a kitchen employee and a bartender and a manager in addition to my main job being. There was like an occasion where truly all the kitchen staff just left, right? And you found yourself cooking wings, right? Yeah, that happened in the kitchen. It would happen one day when the bartender needed to go home. It happened one day when the manager needed some help. You know, they were just windows of opportunity that opened that I was very comfortable stepping into,

even though I wasn't well trained or experienced in the role. And so put that together, I had a mini-resum of capability to make me qualified as a member of a training team to go travel around the world and open restaurants. And that was just the earlier phase, but that same pattern would repeat itself. I would volunteer to be helpful. I would take on projects that were outside of my job and my scope. And fast forward six months, and I had done many more things than typical people in my position had done. making me not only more qualified for a next or unusual role or opportunity, but also having given me exposure to other people in the organization. So I knew them and they knew me and you put all of that together and it certainly accelerates opportunity.

How much of your perspective at that time, especially early on, was just doing what was required of you in the present and how much of it was I'm going to be hyper ambitious because I know if I do these things, it will set me up for the future? Like, was it semi serendipitous or was it you were really strategic and ambitious? I was not ambitious at all. It felt it just was the right thing, right? And again, my nature is curiosity. So when your currency is learning and you have an opportunity to do many new different things, you do them. If that's not your nature, if you tend to be more safe, more conservative, then you won't do those things unless you are strategic. strategic and ambitious. I never planned on being a president of restaurant businesses. I was the first

in my family to get into college. I was an engineering major. My plan was to get my engineering degree and go on to law school. So all of these things I was doing in the restaurants that were creating advancement for me were never a part of a plan to advance in that industry. I had a different plan. They were just the way I work. And then when the opportunities kept coming at such a pace and there was so much growth. And it was very clear that I was good at things that other people weren't and I was enjoying it so much. I shifted my thinking from, well, I need to go to school and finish and get this engineering degree and then go to law school to maybe I should peel off this career plan, interstate, take this off ramp of these really cool things that I'm doing right now because I'm loving it and I can always go back to school. Did it feel like a risk? And I think

specifically, like there was kind of a critical juncture where you had to decide, am I going to stay in college or am I going to pursue the opportunities that they're giving me corporately? At that time, did it feel like a risk? And if it did, how did you have the boldness to step into that risk? Well, I didn't really have the opportunity to make the decision. I had been traveling so much, I failed college. So the decision was, I made the decision through my actions, right? Like, I chose work. I chose travel. And I made up my classes as often as I could, but there became a point where the travel was so frequent in back to back around the world that I just couldn't make up the classes. And so when I was 20, I met with the school counselor and they said you're failing college because you're never here.

And so again, I was laying in the bed that I had made, which was choosing traveling, opening franchises around the world over attending class. Of course, I thought I could make it up, but it all just sort of compounded. And so did it feel like a risk a little? I had no contract. I had no salary. No one was promising me a role that these things I was doing around the world, opening franchises would continue. But I saw and believed the potential.

And so it didn't feel like a risk. Three of the qualities that I've heard you talk a lot about are courage, confidence, and humility. I'd like to know why specifically those qualities. and then what do those qualities look like in action from your perspective now as a president and CEO of a large company? I typically lay out a matrix of four qualities. So on one side is courage and confidence. On the other side, humility and curiosity. Those four things may seem similar to each other or different in some ways. They're quite distinct. So courage and confidence sometimes get confused with each other. They're related, but they're very distinct. humility and curiosity are related, but also very distinct. And courage is the ability to break through very natural fear to speak up, step up, do something.

Confidence is the belief in self that this is going to work out. So they're very different things, but clearly they're related and when they're combined, they can be very powerful. Similarly, humility, you know, this mindset that there's a very different thing. always something I can learn and a genuine gratitude and appreciation for the value of others. And then curiosity being simply the desire to learn. So again, those two things, some people say, oh, well, aren't those kind of the same? They're quite different.

But when put together, very powerful. And what I have learned is that when I or any human overindexes on courage and confidence or over-indexes on the humility and curiosity side. So think of a scale or a range, and courage and confidence are on one side, and humility and curiosity are on the other. If I over-index on one of those groups without it being balanced by the other,

harmonized with the other, those of Winton, I have really made my largest mistakes. So people who over-index on courage and confidence, without humility and curiosity in the picture are bulls in a China shop. And they are courageous because they will speak up and do things, and they are confident, and they believe in themselves. But if they lack the humility and curiosity to learn and bring others along and value others around them, maybe they'll get things done in the short term, but people won't follow them for very long, and they'll actually miss out on incredibly valuable learning and insights.

Similarly, if people overendex on humility and curiosity and no courage and confidence, then you're just a student. And nothing wrong with being in a phase of your life where you're a student, but when you're in a position of taking action and leadership, certainly all four, that whole quadrant, being optimized in those things as much as you can, being self-aware of when you're bringing some forward versus not, the optimal combination of those seems to lead to the most effective humans. And that was true. I could see that when I was opening restaurants around the world. I learned that as a waitress. And certainly as an executive running a large company, I see that every day, right?

People who just come in and make decisions and don't include others and don't have humility, doesn't matter if they're a president or a waitress, the same pattern follows. They'll get something done in the short term and people won't want them on their team in the long term. Likewise, leaders who have a seat at the table but are just students and don't use the very valuable position that they're holding to be courageous and to have confidence in their ability to make change, they're taking up a seat. And I'd rather get them out of that seat and have someone there who has a better blend of humility and curiosity with courage and confidence. That's so powerful. And I think that mental model of thinking it as a spectrum, where do I land on this spectrum is so perfect. Specifically, I think we interact with a lot of business owners, business leaders, highly growth oriented people, that sometimes they put too much weight on the humility and curiosity side.

Of course, you need to be humble and curious. But at the same time, leadership demands boldness. So how do you cultivate the courage and confidence necessary to find that sweet spot in the middle of that framework? I think the reason maybe those that you work with are focused so much on humility and curiosity is because the historic generation of leaders have way over-indexed on courage and confidence. Like too much disproportionately valued those things over the other things? Right. So just think of two generations ago leadership, command and control versus influence. and what was viewed as a leader a few generations ago or one generation ago.

It's the male, older, in charge, making decisions lead from the front. I can understand how some organizations, in an effort to modernize leadership, and an effort to bring a more holistic view, might have become, as a result, obsessed with the humility and curiosity side. So I get it. I think the world and generations of leadership are changing and evolving. And certainly if organizations are spending so much time on humility and curiosity, they could overindex on that and then miss the courage and confidence piece that's needed. So I would encourage people who are listening to not believe it should be one way or the other. The goal is seeking an optimal blend, self-awareness,

and ability to bring forward these traits at an optimal level. So if you're in the, we're overly humble and curious camp, then yes, work on courage and confidence. If you've got some leaders that are bulls in a china shop, they need to work on humility and curiosity. But your question was specifically in the scenario where people are focusing on humility and curiosity too much. How do they focus on courage and confidence? And so, one, I would just say watch out, because sometimes you can do that. and emboldened people who are already way too much in the courage and confidence camp. So it's a pendulum, or people will say, oh, I just need more courage.

In reality, they need a dose of humility, huh? It's the blend. And I think in order to build any of these traits in a leader, one, they need to see the behavior modeled by others in the organization. There's very few things that provide better skill building than seeing it modeled from various leaders. So speaking up, speaking out, believing in oneself, putting forward an idea or a point of view when it's unpopular or going against the grain, talking about sensitive issues. You know, those are things that if leaders who are typically only humble and curious see them modeled, they start to build more comfort in what that might look like for them. And then the second is in types of coaching or one-on-ones or development is specifically calling it out with leaders saying, hey, I know this is on your mind, yet you didn't bring it forward.

Can you tell me why? Because the line that I use regularly is I would be failing you if. And I would be failing you, you, the royal you, you know, the organization, the person, whatever. I would be failing you if I didn't bring something up. I would be failing you if I didn't have this difficult conversation instead of being so humble and so curious and thinking, oh, who am I to bring this up? I'm new here, or I'm so young, or I'm different. And those are natural thoughts that come into people's minds. And the way to cure that sickness is to convince yourself that you're actually failing the organization if you

don't bring forward something that might be a bit uncomfortable. And in that way, you're serving them, which that's something we talk about a lot around here. You changed positions. I think you said every two years you were stepping into a new position, which I would assume means you were changing teams every two years, which probably means you have to get really good at building trust with people at a very rapid pace. What is your process or how do you go about building trust with people whenever you're entering into a scenario that already exists? The changing jobs every two years, two years is a lifetime. That's plenty of time to build trust. What actually taught me to build trust was opening restaurants in new countries every 60 days. Wow. Because the team,

was completely different. Maybe there was one common person between some of the openings or two, but it was often a completely different team in a completely different environment with a totally different franchise owner, often with a different language, with a different set of laws, cultural expectations. That's where I honed my trust building muscle, not the corporate world taking, again, two years is forever in a day to get to work with people and you learn each other and eventually sort of learn each other's intentions. I believe the way to learn how to build trust, is, in fact, putting yourself in positions where you need to work with different teams in a truly short period of time.

Like pressure cooker almost. Yeah, it's a brutal leadership mirror because if something goes wrong consistently in the three different teams you're running in three months, you're the only common denominator. And if it goes incredibly well, then you're also the common denominator, and it's probably something you're very good at. So then to your question as to how, you know, it was an organic learning process. And part of it was just coming from a place of humility. It was the humble side of that spectrum where when I would go to an opening and I would meet with a new team on the first day,

and by the way, I'm typically younger than everyone, and we've never met, and people are excited to be there, but they're not sure what they're going to do, and they're used to working for someone else. There's a lot going on in those dynamics. And I would start by bringing them coffee, tea, donuts, well, now. Sinabon. But the point is not a gift, and it is not to buy trust. The point is doing something every day that says, I thought about you. And I don't have to stand up here and say, look, everyone, I thought of you. And so I got up early, and I went to get you breakfast and coffee and brought it just by way of being there, being prepared, and having that ready for them. It says all of those

things. And so there are many things. That's a very small, literal example, but there are many things. that are gestures of thoughtfulness that even though I'm in charge, I'm saying I'm here to serve you. I'm here to make the environment conducive for you to bring your best. I don't want you to be distracted because of fill in the blank, because you're hungry, because you're thirsty, because you're not sure what's going to happen next. So I learned to be very thoughtful because that takes out half of what could be anxiety and mistrust and questioning from a new team situation. And again, And if it's not food, it could be things like agendas. Just to jump in there real quick, you talk about like, okay, when you were starting restaurants,

it was bringing in donuts and bringing coffee and showing them you cared, the acts of thoughtfulness. What does that look like now that you're C-O-O-N-President? What are acts of thoughtfulness? Is it still bringing in donuts and coffee? Or how do you exercise that muscle now? It could be any range of things. It could be simply being prepared and showing that I was thoughtful. That could mean food.

It could mean an agenda. It could mean meeting with someone before. the meeting. It could be the way I communicate when big news is coming out. There are certain people that I will communicate to individually in a cascading sequence to say, this is happening. I want you to know, and I want to know what you think about it so I can continue to iterate the way this is going to occur. So it could be bringing a physical thing. It could be just being prepared. It could be respecting people's time. It could be communication. But that's just one piece. The other piece is vulnerability, letting people know about me as a person and offering that gesture first and helping

them remember we're all human and we're all more alike than we are different. So if they are thinking, who is she to tell me or how did she get here? Creating that human connection also helps let the air out of that balloon that can grow over time. And it encourages some people, not all and every culture around the world, is certainly very different, but it encourages some people to also reciprocate. And then you end up learning about them. And of course, connectedness and understanding builds trust. So between thoughtfulness and building the human connection, those two things are critical foundations to building trust with a new team. The third piece, whether it's a new team that's first coming together or an existing team that I'm taking over,

is, again, that blend of courage, confidence, humility, and curiosity, asking them questions when I have questions, admitting mistakes when I make mistakes, making a change if a change needs to be made, but also calling people out on behaviors that are unacceptable. Might be uncomfortable to the one person being called out, but the rest of the team says, oh, I feel safe, right? I feel good. I know that what we're supposed to be doing is actually going to be upheld. And so there are many other things, but those would be the three core, very elementary buckets at any level. I love that focus on vulnerability because I look at that and I say that's that's the center of her framework, right?

It takes a ton of courage and confidence to be vulnerable, but it also demands curiosity and humility to step out and be vulnerable. Was that a skill or a lesson learned for you in the process? Or was that something that came naturally in vulnerability was one of your strengths as you stepped into these teams? I've always been very communicative and open and I was incredibly young. I mean, it was 19 leading teams around the world. And so I was seeking to connect in a way, and that was my way of connecting. It could have gone the other way. It could have been a different culture or a different environment where that wouldn't

have been welcome, but it worked out. And the more I shared and the more I connected with people, the more I realized they were comfortable with me and saw it bring down guards and walls. And since I paid attention and saw that that was helpful, I continued that behavior. So a little bit natural, but I was also observing the benefits. of it real time in live interactive environments with all kinds of people. One of the things that I think is so fascinating about your approach is just your relentless fight to stay close to both your customers, your fans, and to your team. And one of the ways

that expresses itself is you have made an intentional effort to respond to every person that tweets at you. So I'd like to know if there's a 19 or 20 year old that tweets at you and they say, I'm responsible for leading people that are older than me and they won't listen to me. In 140 characters or less, what do I do? I would say, first sentence, tough in 140. You know, big question to ask over a tweet. But I would reply that every situation is different. Make sure you are demonstrating thoughtfulness, learning about them and sharing about you,

and being very clear on what the job to be done is. what does that last part mean? Being clear on what the job to be done is, what does that look like in action? And that, my friend, is the problem with a tweet. Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. I respond to every tweet, but not if there are 50 follow-on tweets about it. But what I mean by be clear on what the job to be done is, one, that was my effort to say something very complex in a very tiny set of words because I only had 140 characters. Of course. Obviously. But being clear on what the job to be done is, is if you unpack that, it's one,

sure that the team is aligned on the mission. So if they're telling me there are people who aren't listening to them, the question is, are they aligned in what they're there to do? The second is being aligned on what I or this person, the leader, is there to do, which is actually to serve them and help them do their job well. Those two things being clarified literally, and with getting alignment on those can also help those situations. I think I've heard you talk a little bit about this before, but I would assume as you gained exposure and as you started to become a public face of a variety of organizations now and of focused brands, I know people have criticized you stepping in and starting your career at Hooters and moving up at Hooters. I'd love for you to explain, first of all, how you mentally absorb that criticism and then how do you externally respond to that criticism? Mentally absorbing it is, look, when you are more public and more accessible, there's a lot of

craziness out there. And so you just learn that there are a few things that matter and my family, my health, my employees. And so I've got a very healthy mindset around if the fact that someone has an opinion about my background and where I started, that is their opinion that they have an absolute right to have, but it gets no space in my heart or my mind because they didn't walk a mile in my shoes. But they have absolutely every right to have a point of view. And that's totally cool. So I've got a very chill, open, respectful mindset around people having points of view where they disagree with my choices or the way I've lived my life. It's totally cool. I really like that. Just to draw attention to that, like it seems like a lot of the national discourse today is I disagree

with your opinion. And as a result, you don't have a right to have that opinion. Yeah. And it seems like that can be very dangerous. Yeah, that's pretty, well, obviously, right? It's very toxic. And I understand that people have a point of view for a reason. There's information about my world that they don't have. There are experiences they have in their life that bring them to believe that something that they read on the surface is not acceptable to them. And they have a right, at least in most countries, to express that. And that's also why I don't get too caught up in it. There's things that I don't understand about them that have brought them to think what they think. And then there are so many things about me that they don't know. And I'm not going to take the time to close that gap for every

individual that has a problem with me. Just respect that they have a point of view. And certainly, if there are windows where I can broadly address questions or concerns, I'm always happy to, but don't let it affect me personally. In terms of the then not just how do I process criticism, especially of choices in past and hooters and things like that. But then the thought process, it's, you know, one, I was a child of a single parent, alcoholic father helping to raise two girls trying to save money to get into college. One out of two Americans start their career's first ever job in the hospitality industry. And restaurants or hotels of some kind, I am no different.

What's different is that it was hooters. But what people don't know about hooters is it was only 20% alcohol at the time, which was less than Applebee's. You know, it's had a layer of female sex appeal, of course, because of the Hooters girl in the uniform, but it was still a restaurant. And I had a ton of fun and was treated with a great deal of respect and clearly had amazing growth opportunities

because the company was growing. And so both the consideration for my conditions, it's not like there were these large professional organizations asking a 17-year-old who needed a job to go work, work in a bank. I went to go work at a restaurant and a restaurant chain that was very popular in Jacksonville, where I grew up at the time, and then enjoyed it once I got there. The second piece is really the opportunities that I received. And it all boils down to, first, this gratitude for the opportunities I received, and then a genuine pride in what we built. We put more women

through college than any other restaurant chain in the world. All of our front-of-house employees were women and we had an amazing tuition reimbursement program, and this was in the 90s, right? Way before that was such a cool thing now, we were doing it just because it was the right thing to do to attract and retain employees. There was a massive focus on women's empowerment, female education. You know, I was just such a beneficiary. It was in the environment that someone from the outside will never know, but I was very proud of what we did and how we invested in ourselves and our employees and what that experience was like. So my gratitude for all my opportunities,

plus my pride in how we were doing what we were doing, made me over time pretty confident that I didn't care what other people thought. I was open to listening to the criticism because I appreciate how much criticism can be a gift, and sometimes people are right, and their feedback should be cause for pause to reflect. And I learned from a mentor a long time ago,

anytime you're truly criticized, assume first that they're right and allow that to be the mental journey you go on so that if they are right, you don't put your foot in your mouth and you learn from it. And if they aren't right, instead of just debating that they're wrong, you focus on the why or the how. And so I just, I've always been very reflective. And I would listen and I would think, like, wow, is this bad? Or should I be doing something else? Could I have been doing something else? And I always landed in that same place. I'm so grateful for all the unbelievable opportunities I'm getting and I'm so proud of what we're building. Therefore, what these people think is not going to meaningfully change what I'm doing day to day. I mean, eventually, I came to a place where I said,

I don't want this to be my life. I want to run other things. I want to parlay this experience into building other businesses. And it was time for me to move on, but it wasn't because of criticism of the concept. Wow. And kind of that next step was you stepping into Cinebun, and I know what I've read is over the course of three years, you led the charge to add, I think it's 200 locations. And you were really the leader running things when it became a billion dollar brand. What are the greatest lessons you learned in that process of you're stepping in now? You are the person responsible for leading this thing. And it's growing so fast.

Well, it wasn't growing fast at first. It was the recession. And so it was in the toilet. And so I took it over during a very difficult time. It was a difficult time for any retailer, but especially a food retailer making purely an indulgent product sold solely out of malls and airports. You think about all of the things that I just said. That's really dangerous. Okay, so what made you go there then?

Like, I mean, you probably saw all those risks at the outset. What made you say, I'm going to step into the middle of all that? Yeah, it was a great opportunity. You know what? I don't think is someone going to hand me the keys as a first time president of a giant well-running operation. So the question is, would I have been able to be a president of such a large company at such a young age other than a scenario where there was probably a part of the owners that were like, well, she can't make it much worse? And I joke about that a little bit. Obviously, they saw that I had potential to make it better. But certainly, I'm no stranger to low expectations. I'm no stranger to difficult scenarios. And I believed in the brand. I thought the product was fantastic. And I understood the underlying issues. I understood how to create influence in a franchise and retail and product organization,

even though I'd never worked in a bakery concept or in a mall and airport-based concept. You know, it was all very clear to me what the building blocks needed to be. I just needed to understand what's the team that's there and how capable are they and how might I serve them and grow and evolve them or change them if it needed to be changed. And then what was the state of the franchisees and how I needed to work with them and our team needed to work with them to bring them along a very difficult time. in the economy to lean into what would be a very prosperous future. So some of the tips were just, I was very confident in my ability to either do what needed

to be done or I was confident in my ability to be humble and curious enough to figure it out if I didn't. I mean, you worked in the bakery for several days for a long time, correct, just to learn the processes? Oh, months, not days, months. Really? You weren't just observing, you were making cinnamon rolls for months. Wow.

Yeah. And of course, I'd come back to the office and do things that needed to get done, but I did almost nothing but work in the bakeries for 60 days. And that just helps me stay very close to the reality of the business instead of just reading reports of what people are telling me their version and their interpretation of what's going on. But all within that, you know, taking over a business and being a part of its accelerated growth, even though it was such a tough economic time, there were three main drivers for what we did as a team.

first was being very clear on who we were as a company and what we stood for and being very honest about that. This was an indulgent concept. And trying to make it something other than what it was was going to be an unfruitful attempt and disingenuous in a marketplace that increasingly demanded transparency. And so I assume that's talking about there's such a rise in health conscientiousness and people focusing on what they're putting in their bodies and things like that. You weren't saying we're going to pretend that Sinabun is that. healthy thing, like this healthy option for breakfast, you were just going to own what it was. Yep. So we said we're an indulgence. That's what it is, right? You don't eat an indulgence for

breakfast, lunch and dinner, so don't eat sinne every day or don't eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It's for the times when you want to be a little bad. And if you want to be bad, it'd better be so worth it. And this product is. Which is so worth it. So being honest about what we are, and clear on how to communicate that. So that's step one. Like, who are we? What? what do we have the right to do and how do we communicate that? The second piece is given that positioning, what do we have permission to do and what do we need to change to remain or become relevant to today's consumer? You don't have to change who you are and your values to be relevant to today's consumer, but you do need to change and evolve how you do what you do. For us, that meant things like smaller portions and more portable products and other things that were just super intuitive that not only allowed

us to capture a different consumer segment by way of having smaller, more portable portions, but they were also cheaper and more affordable because they were smaller. And in a recession, cheaper is a good thing. So we parlayed what we stood for. We stayed honest. We kept our high-quality ingredients. We didn't compromise, but we made smaller things, essentially. And that made a lot of sense, and it proved out to be very successful for the business. And then the third was to really think creatively about where else we could bring our brand. And that led to the multi-channel growth of more products and grocery, Cinebond products on other people's menus like Taco Bell or whoever, that allowed us to enjoy a level of exposure and growth and product awareness and product

innovation that just using only our old school model would not have allowed us to do. And none of those things that I just mentioned are easy. They're all complicated. They all have issues when you're trying to do them in an established environment in a mature company with a mature team. But they are critical foundational elements required to turn around a business and help set it up for growth. I know you work with a lot of small businesses and invest in startups. If you're working with someone that is saying like, okay, I'm in a position right now where I'm trying to lead a turnaround.

I'm trying to turn this thing around from current status and current stage. What is step one or what is the first thing you would advise them to focus? on. Be clear and stay close to the customer. It's all about the customer. Whatever you need to do without having any more information than the scenario you just described, whatever you need to do, the customer is telling you through their purchasing behaviors and through their life. You just need to be close enough to see it. And that will give you your rank order of priorities of things to go after. I heard a story that said that you would early on dig through the trash to see what customers were throwing away? Like you would look through what are the things they're not enjoying?

And I assume that was focused on understanding customer behavior. Is that right? Yeah, it's a pattern whenever I help people dig into a team or a business or a company. And certainly when I take over a business, I ask three questions when I'm interacting with employees and customers, which is, One, what do we throw away? And that question is about what are we providing and investing in that people don't value. The second question is when do we say no? That's the opposite question. It's about what are things people believe we should be doing. They're giving us credit for it for some reason, yet we're not doing, and that represents a market opportunity. And then the third question is, you know, if you were me and you could only do one thing to benefit this brand or this business,

depending on if I'm asking a customer or employee, what would that one thing be? And you ask those questions in a short amount of time and you get patterns of answers. What do you think are the things that a person needs to focus on to go from leading a small team to then leading leaders? So you're leading key decision makers in an organization. Obviously now you're leading leaders of brands that represent thousands of people. What are the key qualities and skills necessary to lead leaders effectively? There are some nuances. I mean, some things are very similar, right? Helping humans bring their best self-touching. work is a dynamic required for a junior level employee as much as it is for a president of a company. So I would not lose sight. I would not all of a sudden shift and lose sight of the caring and the connectedness and the collaboration that helps get the best out of humans. That's, again, it's true for groups of very entry-level teams or very senior-level teams. So don't walk away from fundamentals. But certainly, when you are leading leaders, you need to let

your leaders lead. And that may mean getting comfortable with leaders making bigger mistakes than you might have been comfortable letting an entry-level person you were leading making. One, they should have that scope of responsibility. And if you run in to catch them or fix it or control it every time, they will either, A, learn they need to come to you every time and not step up and lead on their own, or B, be completely resentful about it. And they probably won't be around very long. So I think the key difference is the room to fail, the scale of the boo-boos and the mistakes that might occur along the way. But the core tenets of situational leadership still apply. Just because someone's a leader doesn't mean they're good at everything.

I'm a leader. I've led a ton of people. I've been presidents of three different divisions now. And there are still things that if someone gave me that task, I would be new at it today. and I would need help and I would need support and I would need guidance. It would be expected that I have more executive acumen where I knew some questions to ask and I could advance through those cycles of learning more quickly, but it doesn't mean that I should be left alone. And that might be quite irresponsible actually. So I think just embracing the fact that every human and every leader is on a development journey and different tasks and things they do will represent different levels of skill with them, and they will be further or earlier in that journey, and you need to know what that is, so you can give them the level of support and encouragement or direction that they need in that thing or in that area at that time.

I'd love to get your advice for two groups of people. The first is the young person that maybe identifies with you whenever you were starting off as a waitress, where you had aspirations, but you certainly couldn't connect the dots and draw out a tenure plan that gets you to where you are today. If that person's sitting there and they say, I want to make a difference, I just don't know what's next or how this is all going to play out. What would you say to that person over a cup of coffee? I would say one, no one knows how things are going to play out. And if you think you know, you're probably halfway wrong because things change so quickly.

So I would first give them comfort that seeking to know how it's going to play out is probably not the best use of energy because it's impossible. The second would be, look, if you are a planner, be ambitious. I know some people who have 10-year plans, and they operate against that 10-year plan, and they know what they want to do, and they figure out all the little steps along the way, and they do their best to achieve those things to get them closer to their goal. And if that's your jam, go for it. That just isn't my nature. It doesn't mean it's not the right thing to do.

It's actually quite smart to be thoughtful, strategic, and planful. it just wasn't my nature in the early days. So again, honor your style. And if that's what you need to move down a path and feel good about where you are, you should absolutely do that. But the other piece is be all in wherever you are. I was all in as a waitress. I was all in as a bartender. I was all in as a cook. I gave it my all. And I thought about each of those roles as being bigger than they were. I really believed as a waitress that I was changing people's lives every day. I was bringing them a smile. I was brightening a part of their day. I was impressing them with how fast or professional I could be. I made the job bigger than it was. I never said, oh, I'm just a waitress or, oh, I'm just a hostess, or, oh, I'm just a bartender.

I'm affecting people's lives, like one chicken wing at a time. And I believed it. It wasn't self-talk. I didn't do affirmations. I just believed it. And because I believed it, it showed in my work. It showed in how I prepared. It showed in how I cared. It showed in how I treated people and how I dealt with a mistake or adversity. You behave differently when you believe you're making an impact. And if I can believe I'm making an impact with chicken wings at Hooters, I really do believe that most people could come to a place where they can see and believe the impact they're making that is bigger than just the thing. Whether it's the dish they're the paper they're pushing, the machine they're operating, you know, being connected and in a service industry in a restaurant, that's so obvious because you're so close to the customer. And you really do get to see them having a better day at the end than when they, you know, came in and first sat down. And so that's what's beautiful about working in that industry, is you really do see the impact you have on people, good or bad. In other roles,

it might be difficult, but find a way to believe in the bigness of what you're doing. And you'll do your best work. You will be noticed if there is anything to be noticed. And even if you're not, you'll be much more fulfilled in the day to day on your way to whatever your next thing is. That is so good. And I mean, it ties in so perfectly. You're speaking with us in Orlando and the theme of that summit is work that matters. And that's just the whole idea that you have to, regardless of where you are on the org chart, you have to believe that you're making impact. The second group of people that I love you to give advice to is maybe it's the leader, maybe it's the business owner that has a desperate desire for the team that they lead or the brand that they lead to be world class.

And they look at you as someone that is now responsible for seven world class brands. What would you tell that person? There are two parts. One is staying incredibly close to the people and building a culture so that if someone has the potential to be world class, you're going to see it. Is that another way? Make sure you're not part of the problem. The other is to hold a high standard.

And if you are creating a culture where people can bring their full selves and be world class if they are, yet you have examples of those who aren't. Get them the development and training they need. Hold them accountable. Give them feedback. And if they can't be, move them out and upgrade. What's the biggest area you're growing right now, Kat? I would say it is around thinking about how the future of work is affecting the employment. employee value proposition? And what is the balance of sort of progressive, creative work environment

changes that can and should be made to move us along that, you know, employer of choice spectrum? What's the balance of those with not just playing around with the business model and still driving our business forward every day? That's a very delicate balance with a lot of responsibility, a tremendous amount of complexity across multiple brands because you do want people to be world-class. You do want people to love where they work and how they work and bring their full selves. But the world is changing very quickly in the way in which that happens requires a different type of employment structure and in some cases culture. So really continuing to look to learn and grow and best practices in that area and experiment within our own ways so that we can do that. Well, Kat, we are so grateful for your time today. And I think I speak for all the thousands of people that are going to be with us in Orlando. And I say we cannot wait to hear everything that you're going to dive into there. Thanks so much for being with us today.

My pleasure. Thanks so much. It is remarkable what she has accomplished over the course of her career and over the course of her life. I'll tell you, it was really encouraging, but also somewhat convicting and challenging for me to hear her story. because she was someone that wasn't overly ambitious, she wasn't overly opportunistic. Her strategy was kind of just do the next right thing. And that was my takeaway at looking at her life and listening to her in that conversation was just do the next right thing.

And wherever you are in your career, be all there. Well, I'm so pumped, we're all so pumped over here at Entree leadership because Kat Cole is going to be taking the stage at our largest leadership conference of the year. Entree Leadership Summit takes place from May 17th through May 20th in Orlando, Florida. And folks, you know this. This is not your average leadership conference. It's four days with over 3,000 entree leaders.

So many podcast listeners, too, just like you, people that share your values, they share your mindset, and they're all there to learn from the best minds in business and leadership today. If you want to get the podcast listener discount or just find out more, more information about this unbelievable event, you can text 2020 Summit to 33444. Again, that's 2-0-200 Summit, no spaces to 33-444, or you can click the link in the show notes. Hey, our team has put together a really cool resource for you, and I'm really excited to share this with you. We're launching what we are calling the 10 days of intentionality challenge. One of the

things that we know to be true is that success never happens overnight. This is not a microwave This is a crock pot thing, people. And it takes being consistent and intentional, not accidental, in your everyday habits. That's why we're going to be focusing over the course of this challenge on building the skill of intentionality by tackling 10 small habits every single day. Now, this isn't going to be complicated. You're going to get a guide that will walk you through each of these daily habits. And we're going to do this together.

Now, you can sign up for the challenge by texting podcast. challenge to 3344. Again, that's podcast challenge, all one word, no spaces to 33444, or you can click the link that's in the show notes. Hey, there's one more thing I want you to know about real quick. So many of you were massive fans of the episode that we did with Brian and Shannon Miles from Belay where they talked about delegating results and not tasks. That's episode 325. Well, many of you are familiar with the fact that Belay does virtual assistance and virtual bookkeeping for business owners and business leaders around the country. So if you're in a position right now where you either own or lead a business and you want

to hand off your bookkeeping because that's not a strength for you and that's a result that you need to delegate, Brian and Shannon do that. That's what their company does. And we've provided the link in the show notes for you to be able to check out everything that Belay does with virtual bookkeeping. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership podcast. If you did, please give us a five-star review and tell your friends to subscribe. For a chance to win a $25, Amazon Gift Card, you can review this episode by clicking the link that's in the show notes.

And be sure to follow us on social media at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull and was edited and mixed by Will Rutter. I'm Alex Judd and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team. Thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like The Rachel Cruise Show. Hey, guys, it's Rachel Cruz, and I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast.

A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck. They're in debt. They don't even know where to begin, but they have this need, this want to get in control of their money. And if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So in each episode, you're going to get a ton of inspiration and practical advice. If you're not subscribe to the Rachel Cruise Show podcast, make sure you do it today. To hear full episodes, just search Rachel Cruz wherever you listen to podcasts or go to rachelcruise.com.