EntreLeadership - #373: Learn How To Lead In A Crisis with Ken Coleman

Episode Date: May 4, 2020

When disruption makes its way through the marketplace, fear quickly follows. And that has certainly been true throughout the unfolding of the coronavirus pandemic. So, how can you lead your business well in the midst of so much uncertainty? Listen as Ken Coleman, bestselling author and host of The Ken Coleman Show, gives leaders insight on how to stay calm, get clarity, and act with courage as they fight for their businesses to serve and succeed.   entreleadership.com/podcast Ken Coleman's website Listen to The Ken Coleman Show podcast Join Ken Coleman at Summit 2020 Financial Peace University 14-day free trial Listen to Borrowed Future—Ramsey Network's podcast on the student debt loan crisis Liberty University The Proximity Principle by Ken Coleman How to Lead in a Crisis - Free Training Review this episode for a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Businesses exist to solve problems. And look around for just a second. There are so many more problems in the world than there were even 21 days ago. So if you think about it, this represents an incredible opportunity for the free market to absolutely undeniably thrive. And that means that if you are a leader, if you are a business owner, you find yourself right now at a starting line of a race to meet needs, solve problems, and serve people exceptionally well. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership Podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits.

I'm your host, Alex Judd, and today we're going to talk about what it will take not only to run that race, but to win in that race, to make sure that you thrive as a leader, but also to make sure your organization succeeds and survives in this season. And to talk about that exact subject, we brought in the former host of this program and Ramsey personality, Ken Coleman. And as Ken will share throughout this entire interview that if your organization, if your business is going to not only make it through this, but get better on the other side of this, it will have to all start with you. You can't take care of everybody else if you're not taking care of yourself.

And you will be able to for a while. I mean, you know, I just want to be realistic, you know. whether it be in parenting or in leadership or as a coach of an athletic team, you know, you can play this superhero for a while and pull it off for a while, but it's not going to last. And so what's the point of that? And the real challenge is if you try to be a superhero and take care of everybody else

and give something that you actually don't have, when it comes calling and it's going to and you crash, The danger is it's not just you that crashes. You could crash the team, you could crash the organization. That's what we call collateral damage. And the implications are pretty massive there. Well, yeah, then it's not just you. I mean, so the implications are massive for you, the leader, personally.

You could stall your career for a while. You could have some health issues as a result, mental, emotional issues. But again, it's not just about you, right? If you as the leader cause your own demise and crash, then again, you're not just taking you out. You're taking a good portion of the organization out. They're going to have to rebound. They're going to have to scramble, whatever the situation is. So it gets back to that simple thing.

If I want to lead others, I've got to first lead myself. Man, I love that we jumped right in there because we've talked to so many small business owners recently that it seems like probably for about the past four to five weeks, they've been running on straight adrenaline caffeine. And they have just been in hustle mode. And it's almost out of necessity to a degree. How do they start to step back now that we're getting back to work in a lot of places and we're starting to get a little bit of traction again? How would you advise that person steps back and starts to say, okay, I need to make sure I'm taking care of myself? Well, you've got to look at the areas of who you are as a person. You're not one dimensional.

So you can't just look at your work self. You've got to look at the spiritual side of things. Whatever your faith persuasion is, you are a spirit, okay? You have a soul. And so where are you at there? And it's a checklist. Where do I stand? Physical.

Do the checklist. Am I in a good place physically? Am I getting the sleep? Am I getting the nutrition? What's my energy level and all of the things there? And then you've got to look at your relationship. Okay, so because if you're not winning in your relationships with, of course, your spouse, or if you're single and you're not winning in your relationships in life, and there's

conflict there or there's pain, there's something going on there. It will affect you in every other area of your life as well. So where am I at with my relationships? And then you look at where am I at professionally. But I think that the tendency is for us to just look at ourselves and go, well, I'm learning this. I'm taking this training course. I'm reading this book. I'm in great communication with the team.

And that's great. I hope that's the case. But don't just look at you the leader or you the business side of things. You are multi-dimensional. And I just mentioned all those other dimensions. So you've got to have this intentionality to do a health checkup in all of those areas. Because as you are not just one-dimensional, so you can't just think about you the professional, but understand that because you're not one dimensional, if any or all of those other dimensions are out of whack, it will catch up to you.

So when you work with people right now or just you spend so much time with people, what are the qualities that you're looking for to say, okay, that's a leader that's operating from a place of stability in this season? Like what are we seeing about those people that makes them exemplify stability? calm, decisiveness. I think those are two big ones. I could come up with a bunch of them, but as you know, I like to try to keep things simple and bucket them. And I think that the calm leader is somebody who, they're stable and its stability below the surface, which makes them look calm above the surface. That's really good, though, because I've known you for a while and you've known me for a while. I don't think a lot of people would describe either of us as calm people necessarily. I don't think that's are wiring, but it sounds like the type of calm you're talking about is a little bit different

than just a personality style. Is that right? Yeah, but I, well, but let's just let's let's, let's, you brought us into the equation. Yeah. I think if you were to describe me or listeners were to describe me when I was hosting this program, or if they've seen me do an interview with the A-lister on a stage, you would describe me as calm? Would you? Would you? Yes, and measured. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm a high energy personality. Yes. But when I'm on my radio show or when I'm speaking in front of a large group where I'm doing an interview at Entree leadership with Condoleezza Rice. Nobody goes, that dude is like a cat on a hot tin roof. Nobody says that. I am calm. But that's that stability below the surface. Why am I calm in those situations? Why are you calm on the mic? Well, because

you have a lot of confidence. Okay. So confidence is driving the calm. I'm confident that I've prepared. I'm confident that I can perform. So in the moment, I'm not a bag of nerves up there. and thus I look like it's just kind of calm and Ken's just up there and it's just like he's hanging out on his living room couch. Gosh, that's so good. The calm comes from the stability underneath. Okay. And so that looks like for the leader, that looks like I know who I am.

I've got some personal confidence because of awareness. I know who the organization is and why the organization exists. I know what I bring to the table. So I'm teaching on this at Summit. I'm going to teach on the leader who's self-aware. And the leader who knows what they're really good at and what they suck at is a calm person. Because once they know, then they've delineated the stuff, they've delegated the stuff that they're not good at. And so they go, I'm walking into the office today.

And no matter what comes my way, I'm operating in my strength zone. Gosh, that's so good. Because I think we've, and we've all worked with people that are paranoid of their weaknesses. And they're walking around afraid that people are going to figure them out one day. But then you and I both know, I mean, Dave is a great example. He owns his weaknesses and then delegates effectively. And keep in mind, even if you don't own your weaknesses, everybody else already knows what they are. So it's best for the leader to go ahead.

And I'm going to share this at Summit. You know, you're the last one to know. If you don't know, you're the last one to know because they already know. So the calm leader is somebody who has a lot of confidence in who they are and what they're supposed to. to do. So they're not walking around going, I don't know what's around the next corner, you know, and there's just a sense of calm. Calm leaders handle crisis way better than leaders who aren't calm. You know, I think of Winston Churchill from history. Yeah. You know, here's a guy that anything you read about him, you listen to his speeches, calm. Yeah. Calm. In the midst of the storm.

How is that? Churchill knew who he was. He knew what he believed. He knew what he believed. He knew what had to do. There was no lack of clarity. So you've got a calm leader who is calm because of the confidence and the clarity. Now the decisive comes out of the calm. See, because when I'm calm, because I'm confident and I'm clear, so it presents calm. I'm in a good place. I can be decisive. Very hard to make a decision when you're panicky, when you're confused, when you feel unstable. That's right. Very hard. In fact, everything I just did. described will put you in a position where you're paralyzed where you can't make a decision. You want to, but you can't because you're fighting all this other stuff underneath the surface.

So, I mean, those are two things that come to mind, the calm leader and the decisive leader, because again, you can't have one without the other. That's so good. I love that you brought up that conversation that you had with Condoleezza Rice because I was thinking about that prior to this. And I'll never forget what you told me specifically about that conversation that you had with her, and you were kind of training me to grow as an interviewer. And you told me, Alex, you have to make sure that you can make the people sitting across from you feel a sense of

relaxness and calmness because if you can't make them feel that, then it doesn't matter what questions you ask or what you say. And I thought that was so good. And I also think that's so fitting for the business leader right now that's walking into the war room with their team or trying to rally their team around a vision. It's like they've got to find a way to make the people sitting across from them, just like you did with Secretary Rice, feel a sense of calm. So what are the things that you would do in that situation to make sure that you are bringing that presence to the people around you? Well, you have to focus first for yourself on what you know. So you've got a ton of uncertainty going on in leadership every day anyway. Now you throw the coronavirus a literal suppression

of the economy, just overnight deep freeze. It boggles my mind that we're, I still haven't fully processed this has actually happened. because we've never seen anything like it. So leadership is full of uncertainty anyway. Now you throw a crisis on top of that. The team needs to see that you are operating on what you know. That's what they need to see. Because when they see that, look, here's what we know and here's what we don't know.

So there's only so much I can do with what I don't know. Yeah. So we look at it. we go, okay, we need to be aware that there might be some risks, there might be some challenges that are coming out of this area over here, what we don't know. But here's what we do know. People are staying home. People are scared they might lose their job. People are scared about the economy in general, so they're not spending money.

Oh, that's affecting our revenue. Yeah, just a little bit. We are dealing with a scared, confused, uneasy customer. Mm-hmm. that's what we know. Yeah. We also know that they're not spending right now, and if we don't generate some revenue, here's what we know.

If we don't generate this much revenue, we're going to have to make some serious, serious changes. So you're saying this should be the communication. They should be saying what you're saying right now. Essentially, to themselves. Yeah. Because the leader, because here's what I want the leader to understand. When you are absolutely clear on what you know and then you operate on, I'm going to make decisions of what I know. So I'm giving you an example.

This is a metaphorical thing. Like, here's what I know. But you're being real, you're being hyper realistic too. Well, this is what every business leader has to ask. Yeah. Here's my customer, because all of our customers are feeling some combination of what I described. Yes, absolutely. So if revenues are down, now you get the toilet paper industry and the paper towel industry, they're making money, they're throwing parties right now. But for a lot of industries, we're being affected.

So here's what you have to do as the leader. You have to go, here's what I know. This is what I know. This is what I don't know. Okay. Now we make decisions based on what we know. Okay. And again, whatever your business is, your service or your product, you go, here's the challenge. We've got to get people to buy. How are we going to get people to buy? All right. How are we going to cut some costs? So it's not just a one strategy. It's a, okay, what can we do to take our offering to the masses and hopefully they'll buy it? Yeah. How can we keep revenues up? Can we create new revenues? Okay, but that's all of those questions I just asked. We're based on, here's what I know about the consumer. We're in a really tough time right now.

When we start to think that, well, we can cut these costs. We can do what Ramsey's done and we say, okay, we're going to shift to digital events right now. We're going to offer our flagship product of Financial Peace University for free for 14 days and see if we can sign up a bunch of people for free and see if they'll stay in it and it generate any revenue. But that's Dave and our leadership team operating on, this is what we know. And Dave walked in there with our leadership team on that first Monday when this thing really got serious. And that's essentially what he did. you as the leader have to do that. Hey, look, tell them what you know and what you don't know.

So then they go, okay, great, I'm not the only one who doesn't know this. And I'm asking the same question. Then all of a sudden they go, okay, great. The leader, my leader is not only communicating to me, but communicating to me the things that I'm thinking as well. And so there's a collective trust that, okay, at least we're acknowledging stuff that we're unsure about. But now you're going to tell me what we're going to do based on what we are sure of and how that can affect. what we aren't sure of. So a team will follow you into battle. I mean, you think about this.

Oh, absolutely. You know, you and I've had the opportunity to interview SEALs, Navy SEALs. When they have a mission on the battlefield, this is exactly what they face. What are they sure of, put you to the test? What are they sure of at the start of the mission? Well, they know what they need to accomplish. The objective. Yeah.

Right. So this is the mission is based on killing this bad guy. Yeah. That's what they're sure of. We have got to kill the bad guy. Yeah. All right. Then they're sure of the terrain to some degree.

Maybe they're sure of some weather patterns. Who they've got to work with the people. Maybe they're sure of because they've got intelligence on who they're facing and how big the troops are. Whatever. You guys get the point. But then there's a lot in that that they're unsure of. Yeah. And I've had the privilege of interviewing these guys.

And they go, look, here's the deal. This is what we're sure of. And so we're going to focus on that. But we know there's a lot of things going to come at us that we have no idea that are coming at us. but there's not a lack of confidence because of that. Their confidence is this is the operation and this is what we've got to try to do. And we know these challenges are in front of us. So that's what we're going to deal with.

Everything else, we're going to deal with it when it happens. Gosh. So that kind of communication based on clarity at least gives the team member a sense of, okay, I can rally around that. But it's the walking in and going, guys, this sucks, man. the world's changed and I don't know what we're going to do. We're going to have to lay some of you off. And, you know, I hope we're around next month. Why in God's name would you go out of it that way? Yeah. What you can say is, if all of that is true, hey, here's a deal. We got to make some serious operational changes to try to come up with some new revenue opportunities and we're going to have to cut expenses mightily.

And the reason we do that is we want to be here, not just next month, but the month after that, the month after that, the month after that. This is going to be the toughest time in the history of our company. but I really believe in the people in this room. And I can't do this by myself. We need every idea. We need every objection. We need all hands on deck coming together. Let's lock arms. Let's figure out if we can win this thing. Two things in that that I want to dive into a little deeper, kind of a temptation and then also the expectations that you're setting. I think the temptation for a lot of the business owners that I've talked to can be that they feel like if I'm walking into the room to talk to my leadership team, I need to walk in. with the answers. And I need to walk in and have this presentation, have a bow on it, and we've got to have this figured out because they're looking to me for answers. What do you say to that person? No. I think you need to, especially in times of crisis, you walk in with the right questions.

Really? Yeah. If you got the answer great. Okay. So I don't want to confuse anybody. Yeah. If you've got the answer and you believe it's the right answer, then yeah, you go all in with the presentation and the bow. Yes. But you asked, there's a temptation to feel the pressure to do this. And I'm saying, if you don't have the answer, leaders, it's okay. Because if you act like you do, they know you don't. So if you don't, don't come up with something and try to convince everybody, or I see this a lot with leadership and crisis, you don't have the answer. So what you try to do is you distract everybody. And we're not going to talk about the fact that we all know I don't have an answer.

So we're going to go over here and talk about this. Or you cave. I will tell you, we'll never be able to verify this. I think I mentioned this to you in an Instagram live. I don't have the data for this and we'll never be able to have the data for this, but I do believe in certain industries we saw leaders panic and lay people off too soon. And I also think there are businesses that closed because it felt like that was the easiest thing to do. It's easier to just go, man, this is a tidal wave.

I'm going to go ahead and hold my breath and we're going to go down and we'll try to rise again. And it's a good PR move. Well, you know, it's easier sometimes. Yeah. It's a lot easier to go. I'm going to file bankruptcy. Hedge my bets, cut my losses. I can file bankruptcy and I'll start again.

Yeah. That's easier. Now, again, I want to be very sensitive here. Of course. I'm not saying that's the case for everybody who takes that route. Yeah. What I'm saying is it's easier to fold than it is to fight. That's not a new thought.

Yeah. Okay. So what I'm saying is when you don't have the answer, or that the answer you have you know in your heart and in your head that it's not the best answer, being a leader is going in going, hey, guys, here's what I know. This is the question that we've got to answer. I've tried to play with it for a little bit. I've got an answer.

I don't think it's the best answer. I'm willing for you to tell me it's not the best answer, but here's the real issue. I believe that all of us together can come up with the answer. I'll tell you something. You want to build trust. You want to build transparency. You want to build a team. And by the way, this is not just in times of crisis.

It's okay to go in and go, I don't have the answer, but that's why I hired all you brilliant people. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's why you're here. Man, and you said, I believe we can figure this out. Yeah. It seems to me the leaders that I've talked to that are thriving in this season and maybe not circumstantially thriving.

They're going through a lot of tough stuff, but they are mentally thriving. They have a level of belief. Yeah. And, I mean, is it fair to say that that's pretty essential with regard to actually taking this battle or taking on this fight? Yeah, you know, I don't want to follow any commander in a battle if he or she doesn't believe that we can win. That's just not a good recipe. So we've got to believe that we can win. You've got to believe that you can win even when the odds are stacked against you.

You know, I read a book recently about Custer. And Custer was an arrogant bravado kind of guy, just not a good leader. and he gets lampooned for that, you know, and rightfully so. Yeah. But you've got to give the guy some credit. He, you know, bravado, arrogance, whatever. Here's a guy that's completely outman. He's like, we can win this thing.

You know what I mean? I believe we can win it. You know, I think of a better leadership example of Colonel William Travis at the Allen. Oh, you're speaking my language now. Here's the deal. You know, it's where we get the famous phrase, the draw line in the sand. It's where that comes from, whether or not, you know, historically, it's been reported that that's what he said. He said, listen, we're surrounded by Santa Ana's army.

We're too late for a retreat unless you leave tonight. You can leave tonight. We're not leaving, but you can still get out the back, basically. We're hoping Sam Houston shows up. We haven't heard. So we're going to fight and we're going to defend this thing. Who's with me? Pulled a sword out, draws a line to sand, and then, you know, the rest is history. You know, look, did he believe they could defend that place? I think he did. But then there gets to the point where he's still facing his doubts and he sees how they're surrounded. Yeah. But he still says, you know what?

Now it's not, I believe we can win the fight. It's, I believe we should fight. See, that's what I've always found to be super awesome about the Alamo in that story. Yeah. I just, and I have no history to back this up that he ever thought that he could win the fight. Oh, and I think it was 4,000 against like 400 or something like that. But he, at some point, it's really about does he believe we should stay? They are staying, not because they believe they can.

and they're staying because they believe they should. Like it's a right or wrong type thing. It's not about I believe I should fight because we can win. He believed they should fight because they should. And so he had a chance to leave. They had a chance to leave. That was not a fast approaching Santa Ana Army. I mean, they had a chance.

He could have gone with the rest of them. He could say, hey, guys, listen, this is stupid. This is slaughter. We're not doing this. Let's all get out of here tonight. At nightfall, we're going out the back. We'll re-up with Sam Houston. And you know, you could make the case that's probably what he should have done.

Yeah. But here's the issue. You talk about belief for the leader. Yeah, belief is everything. So it gets to the point where on principle you go, we may go out of business. But instead of filing bankruptcy, I'm going to go down with the ship. I'm not going to take the easy way out. I'm going to fight with my hearty crew or whatever it is you've got on your team.

So, you know, belief is not always about belief that I can. it's belief that we should and we're going to we're going to be okay with the result whether we win or not. And we're going to know that we left it all on the field. Yeah, we were guided by principle. You know, we still believe this business matters. We believe we can help customers. There's nothing we can do about the corona thing, but we believe we should fight and we believe we should stick with it. And here's the other thing. It's belief in your people, you know? Like, you hired those people. Do you believe in them? Maybe you don't. but I don't know whose fault that is.

That's right. You know, because I can make the case it's your fault for hiring them. I could also make the case that it's their fault maybe because they've not kind of stepped up where they need to. I mean, but the point is, is that maybe in the time of crisis you choose to believe in them and you show them believe. And then maybe the people who have not shown themselves worthy of belief say, hey, he believes in me. I'm going to show myself worthy of belief. Isn't that possible? You know, because I think there's something to be made.

There's all throughout history that crisis can turn duffices into heroes. Isn't that so true? But the common denominator is belief. Like you cannot do anything half-heartedly regardless, period. Yeah, and it really is, you know, the heroic move, saving somebody, jumping in front of a train or jumping in the icy waters to save somebody, we see these stories. Yeah. What's going on there? It's belief.

I'm supposed to do this. it's the only way to explain why a person who rescues a stranger puts their life on the line for a stranger. In that moment, it's instantaneous. I believe that I'm supposed to help that person. And so the belief outweighs the risk. Gosh. I want to jump back to the Navy SEAL example that you used

because you described this group of guys that understands their objective. They've got pieces of information about what's going to happen along the way. but one of the things that I've noticed in my conversations and the conversations that you've had that I've listened to is that they go into every mission, just kind of expecting that things aren't going to go according to plan. And so I think that's a lot of people in this season, right? We're going to have to just expect that this isn't going to go exactly like we plan it's going to. What is the proper way to set expectations for a team in this season if you know that that's the case? Well, it depends on what the initiative is.

So if you're launching a new product or something like that in this season, you know, you probably should go, okay, what would our normal projections be based on what we think is a normal customer experience or a normal buying audience, if you will? And then we're going to have to back that off. You know what I mean? And I think that, you know, your expectations are probably really, really low as it relates to results. But you can have high expectations for production. So we're doing that with Ramsey right now. Yeah. You know, we're doing some different things.

putting some different things out there and the expectations right now. Well, I'll just be really candid. I'm in the middle of this right now. We are launching some things in the next month that if it were a normal time, my expectations, as I sit here talking to you, would be higher. But because everything is so just what is happening right now. Yes. My expectations are not on the results, but there's... on the excellence in the delivery. So my expectations for me and the team, let's crush this thing.

Let's get it out there because there's a good chance because I'm in the space of jobs and working on purpose and showing up on a Monday morning where you're fired up. That's a pretty relevant message about a month from now. That's right. I think it's relevant now, but it's really going to be relevant when you're talking about 30 million plus people

wanting to get back to work. We help people get back to work. We help people do work they love. We've got a lot of practical resources. So I look at it. at it and I go, I think we're going to release this and hit a wave. And it can be really spectacular. But my expectations aren't that, oh, we're going to sell a ton of this. My expectations are it's still the right thing to do because it's going to help a certain amount of people.

So it's got to be really well done, even though we're going to get it out quick, version one. It needs to be the best version one possible. And trust that it needs to get out now because there's no chance of catching the wave if you aren't in the water. So expectations are, I'm supposed to do this. It's the right thing to do. Is it going to catch the wave now? Or is it going to get us out there a little bit? We learn a lot from it.

And then iteration number two, 2.0 is something we can do anyway. But we've already learned so much from getting out version one with the chance, the chance to catch the wave. Gosh. Does that help answer the question? Because that's real. That's what I'm facing right now. So I don't know what projections are. And by the way, we're not making big projections. Yeah.

We're operating and leadership is going, we approve this. This needs to happen. It needs to happen later anyway. So let's go ahead and get this version out now. So it's not about high expectations. It's just what's the right thing to do. Gets back to belief, remember? And it's not what we can do. It's what we should do in this season. Man, we talk to entrepreneurs all the time, right? And it seems like the common theme that everyone is realizing is businesses exist to solve problems. And so people are starting to realize it's exactly what you're just now saying is this could be a tremendous opportunity for the free market. Like the free market should shine in an opportunity like this because there's a whole lot of problems that didn't exist 21 days ago. That's exactly right.

So how do leaders position their teams to start perceiving the situation that we're in in that way? Yeah, I like that question. You know, you've got to have your head on a swivel right now. So this is a good example of a previous question. I don't have the answer right now to this question. Yeah. But I'm going to give the audience the question. How about that?

Let's hear it. I'm going to actually eat what I cook. I love it. You have got to have your head on a swivel right now asking these questions. The first question is, how has this corona thing affected my industry right now? Okay. Second question is, are we seeing any cultural behaviors, adaptations that we see could very well affect my industry as we come out of this thing? Okay? And I'll give an example a moment. Yeah. And then I think the other question is, how are we prepared to take advantage of the change and ask this question, how could we be very vulnerable? as a result of this change. So I think those are some really good questions.

Yeah. Instead of me telling you all what you need to do, those are the questions that I would ask. So give an example, higher education. I'm going to pick on higher education. Yeah. So higher education was in a situation prior to COVID-19, that their cost of higher education was skyrocketing. Okay. simultaneously because of the skyrocketing tuition, student loans were equally skyrocketing.

And it was becoming a political football, political issue. I mean, big time. Yeah. Like in the presidential campaign, and I think it'll still be an issue. Should we forgive student loans? This is a crisis in America. We've got all these young people coming out of college, and they're tens and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, and they're overqualified for the job that they're trying to get. It's a mess.

you get it. It was positioning itself. By the way, it's still going to have it, but that was putting higher education in a tough spot anyway where people are going to start to go, why am I paying through the roof for the name brand school when I can go to my state school? I can go to a community college

or I can learn online at a fraction. I can go to you. Yeah. Yeah. Or do I even need an education? Yeah. A college education because the economy has shifted. So I was telling my radio audience in February,

And for over a year, telling you, folks, there's a massive perfect storm coming and it's going to catch higher education in a really tough spot. And if they don't adjust, they're going to go extinct. A massive contraction is coming. I was predicting this. Now let's look at where we stand today. What's happened? Oh, everything's canceled. Not only that, but now everything's gone online.

Yeah. So for the colleges and universities that they were selling, this campus experience, Hello, which I think it's great. I don't poo-poo that. They're selling, you're getting this professor and access and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And now they're on Zoom just like everybody else. At their parents' house. At their parents' house.

And so kids are going to start, trust me on this, I'm already seeing articles on it. Kids are going to start to go, why am I in all this debt when I can learn what I need to learn online from all these other schools that aren't even named brand that have been doing online education like crazy. Liberty University's one, Phoenix, you know, go. on and on. Stregor. All these colleges are offering courses online. And online college was booming. So here's what's going to happen. I'm telling you, if colleges and universities don't look at this situation and go, we're in real trouble because we're going to see the desire of kids and parents

to pay big time tuition to go away to a brick and mortar campus, that's going to change dramatically. They need to look at this. They need to look at those questions. You know, what has changed? Well, I'll tell you what's changed. Online schooling, at home, it's now a thing. This isn't just the homeschool movement, you know, that was kind of this like sect out there. That's right. So I think that's an example of if they don't get real serious about this to go, how do we need to change what we're doing? So if you are at college university right now, you don't have a robust online platform and a revenue model based on that, you're in trouble. Well, and the answer is not how do we prepare for everyone to come back in the fall

to our brick and mortar campus. It sounds like what you're saying is you need to be dedicating serious resources towards online learning. You're going to have to say we are in a situation where we could lose a lot of our tuition for on-campus students. However, if we pivot over here and we start to offer online programs, not only can we replace that tuition, but now we can begin a new robust revenue stream. Again, I'll use my friends Liberty University. Yeah. I mean, they've got a good size campus, a lot of kids coming in there, but they're making crazy amount of money. money with their online program for people all around the world who can get a degree on their computer. I'm saying the barrier has been dropped because of COVID, and now you're going to see a lot of

people going, this should cost a lot less if I'm doing it in my pajamas and my hoodie. That's right. But it requires a pretty sober-minded leader to be able to look in the mirror and saying like, holy crud, the way we did things is not going to work in this new world. I mean, it just takes a leader who doesn't have his head in the sand or her head in the sand, you know. And it's those questions I ask, you know, so what has changed, you know, and how does that affect us and then all those things? So that's the mindset you've got to have, you know, as you look at, okay, what's going on right now and where are we going? Like, for instance, I'll tell you, candidly, I'm excited about what Ramsey Solutions is going to end up doing in the digital event space. I think it's something we've been talking about for a while, and I think all of a sudden it's just like,

fast forward, we're there. That's right. Well, and it's out of necessity, but I've also think we've seen evidence that it's working already. And it seems like that is a proper strategy for small business owners in this time. We've seen restaurants do this, right? They see the thing that works, delivery, and then it's like they amplify or double down or capitalize on the thing that's working.

And it seems like the leaders that are winning are the ones that are just willing to look in the mirror and to use your term from earlier, be self-aware enough to say, like, we've got to be willing to pivot. We can't hold on to the things we've always done. Yeah, what's changing? So, you know, you're looking at you're interesting. So you're looking in the news, right?

You're just saying, okay, what's happening? How is that changing consumer behaviors? Will those behaviors snap back, or will they forever be changed? And I think those are the questions you've got to ask. I mean, Dave and I, we did, with Daniel Tarty, we did an entree leadership hour yesterday on the Dave Ramsey show. We had a lady calling from San Diego.

She said, we have a dance studio. And she's like, we're in San Diego. And our numbers are really, really low. The COVID cases. We've looked at all the CDC guidelines. We're able to actually, we could do what we normally do and meet those guidelines. We've talked with our local mayor. We've looked at all the local health department recommendations.

We can actually do this. We feel like our governor and our state leaders are holding us out of business and they're going to put us out of business. and there's no reason we can do it. And I said to our, I said, would your customer, would they come in if you could ensure them that they'd be safe, you know, and all this. She says, absolutely, we've talked to all of them. And she's like, and we've pivoted. She goes, we got on Zoom and we're doing online dance lessons, but there's a real,

it's just not the same. And she's going, I just don't understand why we can't get back to it. You have got to adjust, relentlessly adjust, relentlessly adjust, relentlessly adjust. Okay, oh, the government's done this stupid thing. Okay, how can I adjust? How can I adjust? How can I adjust? And you just fight.

You just fight to keep doing what you're doing. Because at some point, I'm hoping that there's a certain percentage of the American public that will carry our economy. Because I'm telling you, there are people listening right now. And if this hurts your feelings, you need to grow some tough skin. But if you are scared to go out, that doesn't mean that I have to be scared to go out. And we've got to get to a point where we go, let's let the end. the people who want to go out, go out. And if I'm willing to risk having some nachos and a burrito at the local Mexican restaurant, I should be allowed to do that. And if you don't want to do it,

fine. But how many people does it take for our economy to get going? That's the real question. That's right. And that kind of hits on that idea. One of the things we always teach is define the win. So what does winning look like? Well, the winning looks like getting this dance place back in a business. Yeah. And then the next question we always ask is what must be true. Sure. But it seems like that should be the discussions we're having within our teams.

Yeah. Same thing. Is critical thinking and problem solving and creative thinking, all of that. But it's only spurred if people take the approach that you just took of what's possible. Let's just throw everything on the wall and say what's possible. Yeah. Like throw the limitation out. What's the limitation?

Well, people are going to say that we're in groups of over 10. Okay, fair. You know, the police can arrest us? Probably not. You know, so you just start walking through everything and then you go, you know what? We're, yeah, this gets back to leadership. Yeah. I'm not espousing breaking the law. I'm not, I'm not going that.

I'm just saying, like, leading is this idea of I know we're supposed to cross that stream. I'm going to try to find the best place to cross, but I don't really know. remember this is a stream we've not crossed before that's right i don't know how deep it is here so we're going to go well what happens if it's over our head here what's our plan well we all have life jackets so you know we're going to be okay i mean you see what i'm saying it's like take one challenge at a time and let's see if we actually could pull it off and what if it's 50 50 this gets back to belief i believe we should try what if it's 70 30 negative positive But something in your gut says, gosh, I know it's 70, 30.

I think we need to take the risk. Okay. So then what could happen if 70% comes true and you fail? What happens? If you mitigate the failure, meaning it's a calculated risk, then, okay, go for it. You know, it's like you're an adventure sport guy. You know, it's like if you go, I've used this analogy before on this program, if you go whitewater rafting. there's a risk.

Absolutely. Still people do it. What's the risk? Concussion, broken leg, I don't know. Drowning. Drowning? I guess that's an extreme risk. You've got a life jacket on.

But I mean, the point is, there are some risk, but you look at it and you go, all right, and what are the chances that that happens to me? Well, it's 50-50. Ah, come on. Let's do it. It's going to be great. That's right. You know, the worst that can happen is I got a broken arm or leg. It's going to hurt.

It's going to stink. But you know what? It'll be a great memory. Let's go for it. That's what I mean. We do that in our life. Why don't we do it in business? But again, you've got to plan for that. So let's talk about the voices that people and leaders are allowing in their heads right now, because it seems like a lot of the voices are voices of fear and doubt. Maybe the voices Fox News or CNN. Yeah, good point. What are the voices we should be allowing to inform those decisions that we're making about risk and opportunity and next steps, Ken? Well, we need to be aware of the voices.

You nailed the two big ones, and the third big one is pride. Fear, doubt, and pride. So obviously we understand fear and doubt. Pride is it gets the leader really, really quickly. They don't see it coming. But pride says, I can do it myself. I don't need help. Or I don't want my team or I don't want my friends or peers to think that I don't have the answer.

That's what pride looks like for a leader. Yeah. And so what do you do? Put on airs and you try to put it. You detect yourself and you're faking it and you have no idea what you're doing and you get exposed anyway. So fear of failing, fear of I'm not sure what's next. I'm not sure what the path forward looks like. Doubt.

I don't think I can do it. I don't know if my team can step up and do it. I don't know if we got enough money, whatever it is. So fear, doubt and pride. The voices you need to be focusing on, again, are, and whoever this is, the voices of clarity, the voices of confidence, and the voices of courage. Those are the voices. Now, where you get those voices, you know, you get those voices from a great biography. If you want to get the voice of clarity, confidence, and courage, read Churchill, you know,

read Roosevelt, Teddy Roosevelt. And for that matter, FDR, you know, who famously said, all we have to fear is fear itself. People around you, voices of clarity, voices of confidence, voices of courage, because that's all you need to lead. And so what do I mean by clarity? Well, that could be your numbers guy. I'm going to sit on with my CFO and I got to get some clarity. I'm going to run three, four, five scenarios at my CFO and then I'm going to get what could happen. That's right.

If we win, what could happen if we lose. And it's not going to be an emotion-driven conversation. It's going to be a fact-driven conversation. But that's clarity. Yeah. So I'm going to get clarity on the numbers. I'm going to talk to my C-O and use this liberally what I'm saying. Of course.

But I'm going to talk to my operations people. If I ask you to go do this in battle, can we actually do this? Do we have the manpower? Do we have the skill? Do we have the parts? You know, I mean, get clarity. So you get your money, you got operations, you know, sales, your engineers, your innovators, you know, whatever. Whatever your business is, you need to get clear, voices of clarity.

And that leads to that whole, well, now I can look at the company and go, here's where we are. That's right. Here's what we know. Here's what we don't know. So can we add one to that list, too? Because one of the things that I've noticed is that's right. You talk to the CFO, talk to the CFO, talk to the CFO, money operations. The thing that you and Dave and Chris Hogan have been doing relentlessly is talking to the customer.

Oh, well, yeah, of course. It's a great point. Great point. Great point. I mean, it seems like you've just got your thumb on the pulse of what your people are going through right now. Well, but yeah, and I'm fortunate that I'm on the phone with them every day, you know, on the radio. But, but yeah, you make a very good point. I'm glad you added that.

You know, do a survey. Where are you all at right now? If we throw this kind of deal at you, you take your 10 best customers. Hey, if we do this, if we offer you this deal, what are the chances of you buying? If we offer a new product line, what are the chances of you sampling and testing? And if we allowed you to sample it for free, would you endorse that? To your point, listen to your customer. It's absolutely right.

Fire the musket ball and not the cannonball, right? That's right. And that's what we're doing right now. you know, we're going, okay, we can listen to the customer or we can put something out there and see if they'll eat it. And so, yeah, that's a really good point. But the idea here is you're clear. And so the clarity leads to confidence. Remember, we've gone full circle now. Yeah, well, remember, you know, when you can't see this far in front of your face, you ain't walking fast. You ever been in a cave? I have. You don't walk quickly through that, do you? You're freaking out that you're going to hit your head every two seconds. Yeah. Why? Why? Why are you? Because you can't see anything.

It can't see. Pretty unclear. You're unclear. So a clear leader is confident because, again, the leader, a clear leader doesn't focus on what he doesn't know. He or she focuses on what she does know. So that's the confidence. And then this is the beautiful part.

When you're clear, you're confident. And then the moment comes. You've positioned yourself because of clarity and confidence. And then fear rears its ugly head right when it counts. All right. It's time to jump out of the plane. We know we're supposed to jump out of the plane. we believe it for good reason.

So we got in the plane confidently. We're going to go. We're going to go. And now we're over the drop zone, right? And now it's time to jump. Is this going to work? You start to second guess everything. Trust me, that happens to all those dudes

and all those commanders that have ever left paratroopers out of a plane. Yeah. The courage comes with, what do they do? In the moment of fear, in the moment of doubt, the moment of pride, what do you do? You retreat back to clarity. And then the clarity reminds us, ah, we're supposed to do this. Still don't know.

Still scared. But the courage that I draw from the clarity and the confidence gets me out of the door. Gosh. Scared all the way down. That's right. Literally the whole time. I mean, you know. But even when you're scared, you go, you know what?

If this doesn't work, I still believe we should have done this. And that, man, that's the word. I think that's one of my takeaways from this conversation, Ken, is it's not just, I can do this. It's I should do this. And that gives you the level of conviction you need to make that jump. Best word right there. You nailed it. That's the word. You know, leaders with conviction, I just, you know what? I like their chances. I think this kind of parlay is perfectly. You already kind of mentioned this, but you're going to be speaking at Summit here coming up in July. We're pumped about that. I mean, we're big believers in the idea. We know small business is the backbone of the American economy.

Right. There's a lot of hesitation around leaving the office right now. And I don't know if now's the right time to go to a leadership conference, things like that. Why is this important right now? Whether it's Entree Leadership Summit or something else that you're going to for the leader to go to a different space, different place, different pace, and just find some clarity and confidence. Yeah, well, you know, listen, the crowd at summit is a special group of people. We know from data that many of these men and women that come over 50 percent have attended multiple summits. And so there's a special kind of vibe that you feel in the room when you're up on that stage and then when you're walking through the hallways, you're saying hi to these folks. It's a special group of leaders. So they're winners, number one. We know the data on these folks. They're winners.

And so if you're on the fence and you're going, I don't know if I should go to this. Number one, if you can ever put yourself around winters, do it. It's the proximity principle. In order to be the leader you want to be, you've got to be around people that are leading well and in places where those leaders are hanging out. And that's what Summit does for you. The second thing is, is that I think it's actually the perfect time. Because some of you will still be in crisis mode.

some of you will be in start over mode some of you will be in hang on mode and some of you will be in this kind of well we've been thriving but gosh it the whole world's just been weird i just need a break from this weirdness and so whatever you are i think i pretty much captured everybody i think So to take three days and change your environment, which will also change your perspective, which could change your future, I don't know why you wouldn't do that. I don't know why you wouldn't do that. I mean, because there's something encouraging about hanging out with people that have been in the same battle. And I think that's really what it's about. You know, it's like, I'm going to concoct a movie scene.

You know, it's like a banquet. It's like a banquet for generals in the midst of a war. And each of these generals is leaving their camp, leaving their station, their second commands in charge, the battle still rages, the war is still going on, but these generals are escaping for an all-important gathering. And I think that's what this is. I think there's going to be something special about it, because these generals are the The other times we've been at Summit, we've been in peace time.

We're in wartime right now. And a gathering of generals in wartime, man, I'm in. That's right. I have to be there, but I'm really excited about it. That's right. I mean, I'll tell you, candidly, I'm more excited about this talk than any talk I've ever given in my life. Wow. Can you give us any teaser of it?

Well, I don't want to give too much. Okay. And the reason is, is because I want you to come and get it fresh. But I'm going to talk about the enemies of leadership, those things. three things, but I'm also going to talk about the process that is so simple but powerful for a leader to truly lead from their sweet spot and avoid all their blind spots. Like leaders have blind spots. We all do. But I'm going to teach you how to identify the blind spots and identify the sweet spot and to change your leadership forever. That's all I'm going to say.

Because your team already knows it. So I'm going to help these leaders when they go back. Now they know what everybody else knows about them. Oh, man. That's good. But it's going to freeze. you. Yes. Because it's, it's an awareness that's going to set you free and you'll lead better than ever because things you're going to go back, you need to let go of that you've been holding on to and everybody's going, please let go of it. And when you finally go back and go, I'm letting go of this, your company's going to explode in a positive way. That's what I believe. That's what I believe. Is that a good enough pre-based? That's pretty good. Yeah. And I mean,

that's going to be necessary in this season. If you leave the banquet, you better leave more self-aware. I'm pumped about that. I think it's great. You know what? I just got an idea. I'm going to have to tell Sarah and Daniel that we need a, we need some type of military band or something, you know, you know, like we need some type of, we need some type of war theme because we're all at war with this COVID. That's right. I love this. You have this capacity of throwing out, coming up with ideas on the podcast that then everyone has to execute on because it's like he already said it. He said it.

I mean, listen, if you feel like you're in a battle and you feel like you're in a war and you're going, hey, I'm all in, man. Let's have a wartime banquet. it. Let's get some great generals in the room together and let's come out of this thing more emboldened and more encouraged to keep fighting the good fight, man, let's go. Well, Ken, I've told you this before, and I think I just represent so many of the people that listen to this podcast. I started listening to this podcast because of you and because of your ability to ask incredible questions and for your ability to supply and provide insights that really cut to the core of where people are at in the situation that they're in right now.

That was certainly this conversation today. I'd love to close out by you putting on the coach Ken hat and talking directly to the small business owner. What's the message that you want them to hear as they head back to work, as they rally their team, and as they take action on all the things you've talked about today? Well, the first thing I would say is that no matter what you're experiencing right now as a leader, the fear. the doubt, the pride that has been thrust upon you through all of this uncertainty and you're in a battle right now, I want to make sure that you know that you were created to fill the role of leader.

It's not an accident that you are a leader. You were created to fill that role in the marketplace. And so you need to embrace that, that despite any decisions you made or decisions, you will make that you're not excited about, proud about, whatever. I want you to know that you are supposed to lead. And no matter what's going on in this crisis, you will emerge from this, whether you have to start over or not. You are still a leader.

And don't let anybody tell you otherwise. That means that you are needed, you need to lead. And even now when maybe you're down or you're not sure if you're leading a right way, just lead. Your team needs you to lead. And then I also want you to know that you actually can lead well. It's not just that you were created to lead and that you're needed to lead. I'm telling you, you must lead, and I believe you have what it takes. You can do it. You can figure it out. So be willing to do things that you've never done before so that you can lead in ways you've never led before. But I'm telling you, if you don't believe what I just said, everything you've worked for is in danger.

Because it's really about leading. You didn't get into this just to make money. You didn't get into this just to provide a product or a service. You got into this because there's something about being the man or woman who steps up in times of uncertainty and dives into the problem. and leads the team through the problem to a solution for the customer. That's the juice. That's what you signed up for. And you better remember that right now.

Because there are days where it gets really, really, really lonely. And you start to question, am I supposed to be leading? Am I an awful leader? Does anybody need me or would they be better off with a different leader? And can I even lead? And the answer is unequivocally you were created to lead. Your team needs you to lead. And you can do it, so you must do it.

Pam. Ken, we're grateful for your message. We're grateful for the way you choose to live in alignment with that message, and we're thankful for your time today. Thanks so much. Hey, man, I'm so thrilled to do this. It's fun to be on the other side. I'm really proud of what you've done.

You've done an excellent job. And it's fun to hand the baton to somebody who runs faster than you. So I was like the third leg and like you're the Usain Bolt. So you're doing a great job. Well, thanks so much, Ken. Yeah, buddy. Man, Ken absolutely has a gift for bringing equal parts, inspiration and application. I love those handles that he gave us that we can all remember.

Clarity that creates confidence. And the combination of clarity and confidence provides you with courage to move forward in this season. And I wanted to make sure you knew myself and our executive coach, John Falcons, we sat down and we did a live training for over 2,000 business owners just a couple weeks ago. And we really walked business owners through the plan and the process that our operating board here at Ramsey Solutions walked through as everything with regard to coronavirus unfolded. And it really is a workshop that helps you, the business owner, create a 90-day action plan for moving your business forward. So much of the content relates exactly to what Ken talked about in this conversation. So we wanted to provide you with the recording of that workshop if it's something that you,

want to walk through with some of your key leaders on your team. So if you want to get the recording of that workshop, text the phrase, take action to 33444. Again, if you want to get the 90-day action plan workshop, text the phrase, take action, all one word, no spaces, to 33444, and make sure you and your team have a plan for leading and executing on the things that matter most for your business in this season. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership Podcast. If you did, give us a five-star review and tell your friends to subscribe. For a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card, you can review this episode by clicking the length that's in the show notes.

And be sure to follow us on social media at Entree Leadership. This episode is produced by Tim Hull, and it was edited and mixed by Will Rutter. I'm Alex Judd, and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team, thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like the Ken Coleman Show. doing what you were born to do. I'm Ken Coleman, host of the Ken Coleman Show, where I give you practical advice to help you discover your purpose and then map out a plan to get you there.

From accounting to advertising, from plumbing to production, you were created to fill a unique role, and the world needs what you have to offer. Join me on the Ken Coleman Show wherever you listen to podcasts.