EntreLeadership - #377: Leading Through Ambiguity with Jeni Britton Bauer

Episode Date: June 1, 2020

If the COVID-19 global pandemic has taught us anything, it’s that navigating uncertainty and so many unknowns can be extremely challenging. And for some leaders like Jeni Britton Bauer, founder of Jeni’s Splendid Ice Cream, it’s not the first time they’ve had to do it. In 2015, a potential listeria outbreak threatened to shut down her business—permanently. But through quick action and creative problem solving, Jeni’s came back stronger than ever and now has over 40 scoop shops and retail distribution across the country. Tune in as Jeni talks about how to find your way forward in a crisis and why that starts and ends with rock-solid communication.   entreleadership.com/podcast Jeni's Splendid Ice Cream website Sunshine Ice Cream flavor Jeni's Splendid Ice Cream delivery How to Lead in a Crisis - Free Training Review this episode for a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Here at Entree Leadership, we believe that leaders, teams, and businesses win when they create and execute on an effective plan. It's one of our six core drivers of business growth, and it's absolutely essential for you to scale and succeed as a business. But here's the deal. You and I both know that even the best plans don't accommodate for things like a global, worldwide pandemic. What happens when things don't go according to plan? and what happens when the unpredictable, like coronavirus, inevitably occurs? From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits.

I'm your host, Alex Judd, and today's conversation is with a founder and business owner that had an exceptional plan, only to see her world rocked by something she could have never expected. Jenny Britton Bauer started Jenny's ice cream in 2002 with a vision to bring world-class artisanal ice cream to cities and stores across America. And here's what's crazy. Her plan was working. Of course, it wasn't perfect, but her small business was rapidly expanding, launching new locations, getting into retail. She even hired a CEO. Things were absolutely up into the right until 2015 when Jenny's team received a call that almost brought the entire thing to a halt. I did not take the phone call. Our CEO, John Lowe, took the phone call, but I'm so close.

close to him, I could see his expression, and I'd never seen it before. So I knew something was up. We were in a meeting that was a fairly fun meeting about packaging, and I just like, my heart dropped when I saw that because I just could tell on his face that something was wrong. So he got this call in 2015 that an inspector had found just in a random test in Lincoln, Nebraska, pulled some ice cream, some artisan ice creams, and so on off the shelf, and tested positive for Listeria. And that's not the call you want to get, of course. You work really hard as a company to keep your customer safe and to prevent any kind of anything like that, of course. That just kicked off our whole response to that, which was pretty epic, I think. And really, our goal was

to prevent an outbreak. And at the time, I think we weren't sure if we could, but that was our first goal. Within 15 hours, we did a, or, you know, I say 15 hours within some, you know, we were up all night. And the next day, we decided just to do an entire total recall, just a recall of every ice cream that we had out there. Pull it all back in, make sure we could test it just to make sure that nobody would get sick. And we prevented an outbreak in doing that. So that was a pretty amazing and epic Herculane effort, but it worked. And I think now we're sort of the example of what to do in that situation. But at the same time, we did everything right when you're hit with that kind of a big moment.

And then we woke up a couple of weeks later and realized that we had nothing. You know, our company was really worth nothing. And we had no sales. We had no way of making sales. Our kitchen needed to be shut down because we really had to get to the bottom of that. And that took a while. It took weeks and weeks. And so, you know, we brought in the experts from around the world, literally the top, you know, six experts in this in the world.

And so we had them sort of working on a kitchen and we figured it out over time. But, you know, it was a very hard, I think a lot of companies wouldn't have survived it. And I think part of the reason we did is because we're, friends and because we love our customers so much and because we have this like extraworldly will I think in a way it almost felt magical. Extra world. Be honest. I don't know why else.

I mean, it was literally we were going to work every day thinking it doesn't, we can't survive this. And then we did. My word. It's just, it's such a roller coaster because I know you started Jennings in 2002 and you had been in the ice cream world previous to that, but started Jennings in 2002. And it seems like at least from the outside looking in, I've been familiar with you. Jenny's the brand for a long time. And it just seems like everything was up into the right, multiple locations. You were growing. You were expanding. It seems like there was a lot of buzz

around your brand. And then like your CEO gets that phone call in 2015. He tells you this information. What was your initial feeling? What was your initial thought whenever he tells you we had a pint test positive for Listeria, Jenny? My goodness. I don't know what my initial thought was. It was fear. It was I'm positive it was fear. And John's probably too. And I think in those moments, or fear may not even be the right thing because when you get that kind of a call, it's hard to explain what that actual emotion is, this whole bunch of things at once. You know, you can either in that moment be paralyzed or you can stop and face it.

And I think John and I are both the kinds of people, and we've proven that now, who stop and face it. And face into the challenge, look at it, don't let our fear get the best of us. then make a plan and go forward. And I think both of us did that in our very unique ways. And that is, you know, he put a plan into a place immediately to keep people safe, to work with the FDA and to get back on our feet as fast as we could, to get money had to come from somewhere. And it wasn't going to come from sales. And I got to work reformulating our ice creams and figuring out how can we, who are we as a company? When we emerge from this, what has to stay and what can we let go of? And that was a really interesting exercise that I actually think we had to go through to be who we are today.

And so it's really weird how crisis is not something you'd wish on your worst enemy, not even your worst competitor enemy, you know, or anyone. But it can be the best thing that ever happens to you. And I think that that's true. And I think a lot of people I've talked to who've had a personal crisis even have said that. So the idea now that we're in another crisis sort of just knowing after you've been through it that there's a light at the end of the tunnel that you have to just keep, you have to find your, one step forward. That's so good. And I love that you say, fine, your one step forward because it seems like there's a challenge in this season that I'm sure is a parallel to the challenge that y'all faced in that information doesn't come to us all at once. And it seems like we get new information

on how the market is unfolding and how the pandemic is unfolding. And I'm sure you were getting details not all at once, but as they were unfolding in that situation, what did you learn in that whole season, Jenny, about leading and working through ambiguity? I don't know that we've ever faced the ambiguity that we're facing right now. Really? Even then, because it was just us and because we had control. You know, none of it was easy. These are not easy choices to make, but it was, you know, this or that.

Right now, what we're facing is we're slivered in a 200 million opinions. And everyone thinks they kind of know what the answer should be. And it doesn't matter what we do as a company, there's a contingent of people who will think it's the wrong thing. Because we don't have top leadership saying this is what we're, we've taken the scientists, you know, information, we've taken the economists, we've taken everybody's, we put it all together and this is why we believe what we believe and we believe this. We all do as a group. Instead, we've got just too many opinions. It's really hard and I watched John our CEO and we're all working together to try to, you know, make these decisions. But, you know, I watch his eyes too and

know, you know, he's really struggling with this. Like, we put our customers first always in our team. and how can we stay alive in a way that services them, but also keeps everyone really safe? Should we open? Should we not open? Should we require masks with everything that's going on out there? I mean, our team, they don't want to work in a store where customers are showing up without masks. Not all of them, but many of them. And it depends on the region that we're in. And so how can we require it? We certainly can't put it on them to enforce that. And that brings fear to them. And so, you know, the idea is that it's just really hard to be a decision. maker right now. And I think that these times are, if you're a leader in your company, know that this is,

this is what you're built for. This is the time that people need you. And so, you know, John made a decision that we were going to open and we were doing, and we've been just working on this for a long time and like, you know, putting plexiglass up and doing all of that and working on our systems, working with our teams. But I could tell that it was a really hard decision for him. And for all of us. I mean, we all kind of, this is the time when I get to sit back and be like, well, you know, I don't have to make the final decision. you know, but truthfully, we've all been a part of it, of course. But that's when you're in that position, you have to make that call.

And then you have to stand by it. Now, the great thing about leadership is if you're a really good leader, it's not just about decisions. It is that because you have to be decisive. But first, before you do that, you have to get a good team. And you've already done that work, hopefully, right? You've already done that work of getting only good people around you and they're all smarter than you in their own great way.

Now, whatever decision you make, you can trust that they'll be okay. They're good leaders in their own worlds. and that fellowship, you know, because I love Lord of the Rings and it's the sort of idea of fellowship where everybody brings their awesomeness in. And so you've got this awesome fellowship and that fellowship's going to get the ring to Mordor, whatever your decision is about the path. You know what I mean? And that's what is kind of, you know, if you're willing to step back and look into it and find

something interesting about what's going on now, it's fun to look in on your teams and see how they're behaving it now at this time. It's amazing how revealing it is both in terms of personality style but also in terms of decision making. I'd be interested for you and for the other leaders that you're working with to make decisions about moving forward. How are y'all staying centered in this time? And how are you making sure that you're making decisions from a place, both of compassion, but also from logic and facts and really, really driving the organization the best direction that you know possible right now? And anytime we've had sort of big things happening at Jennings, we pull together a special sort of

unit. And so at Jenny's, our leadership team is six people. It's our CFO, our chief human research officer or whatever, our chief commercial officer, and then our chief retail officer, and then our CEO and me. During crisis, we add two more people to that, and they're both communications people. One is an external communications guy who's been with our company forever, and the other one is sort of internal to our shops teams guy, and he's also been with our company forever. So they have sort of, they're really plugged into the people that we serve, both in our shops and out in the world. And so the team of eight meets every single day at noon. And even on the weekends, we've stopped doing that now, but for a while. During crisis, you'll meet every day.

During crisis, every single day at noon. We touch base. We have a little thing that we run through so that we can look at everybody's contribution where people are struggling, where people need help, where we all need help make a decision. And we're just really, really tight. This is not the way we normally do. Normally we meet maybe once a week every two weeks and we're kind of scattered and we're working on our awesomeness out in our world. But during this time, we're meeting daily. And so I think there are no secrets, you know, there's nothing that's happening without all of us knowing and then we can all really work together tightly. It's really, really important that you are working in lockstep during crisis. And so I think that's been just really, really important

for us. And was that a pattern that y'all established? I think you alluded to the fact that That was something y'all did in the Listeria crisis as well or when that occurred. Was that the group that you spent the 15 hours with that night? Or was that night with you and John? It was a group, but it wasn't the same people. Okay, yeah. So we had just a lower level sort of directors sort of people, not sort of chief. You know, we didn't have like a real C suite the way that we do now.

Because how big was your team back then, Jenny? Gosh, it, you know, honestly, it might not have been that much smaller. but it was just not as many top talent leaders. Executive leaders. You know what I mean? Yeah. And so now we have this just really, really incredible team that we fought, really came together only in the last couple of years. What is the dynamic of that room whenever you get in there, especially as the crisis is unfolding, and it's still in a little bit like we're meeting every day at noon?

Can you speak to the dynamic of that room and what makes those meetings effective versus ineffective? It is really cool to watch now. So me, I'm a founder. I get to like, first of all, I always feel like my role is to earn my spot on that team. So I don't show up as the queen be or a founder or whatever. I never do that in our company. Anyway, I'm there to earn my place there the same as everybody else. And I know I have a role in this.

But in the beginning, my role is probably not in the beginning. And so I get to kind of watch how these leaders sort of just start to unpack what they're doing and they bring it. And it's really interesting to watch it. I learn a lot from them when I'm watching that. At some point within a, I mean, already my brain is thinking about what can I do right now that's sort of in terms of like flavors. I mean, we just release sunshine, which is a flavor that's gray, but it tastes like sun. And so the idea, it's a metaphor that the sun always shines again and it's perfect for right now.

So, you know, I'm already kind of thinking about what can I do to whether it's menu, whether it's communication, whether it's getting out and the, you know, I'm always out on the road. I can't do that now. How can I communicate with our customers? But they are really kind of trium. everything and trying to figure out if we can predict anything. I mean, in the beginning, it was like, as soon as you made a prediction about what was going to

happen, the ground would fall out again. And this happened for a week at least pretty big. And then it began to sort of plateau and stabilize. And then we were able to kind of make a plan that we could stick with. And we actually ended up making five plans for stores and just waiting to see which one we were going to follow. It was like one, two, three, four, or five. And I think right now we're at number three.

And so... Really? So you had five. It's kind of like a choose-your-own-adventure book where it's like, if this occurs, then go this way. And you had five different kind of contingencies to determine which way you were going to roll out reopening, Jennings. Also closing. So closing and reopening. And so how are we going to close?

Where are we going to close? Why would we? And so there were five levels of that, just not knowing what was coming. And this is very early, you know, in this whole thing. We had this. So it was pretty, you know, step one. You know, we just decided and went from the. that plan. What's been the biggest takeaway from the Listeria crisis? Because you came out on the other side

of that better than what you were. You said, and it obviously took some time to recover and build back up, but y'all are all over the country now. I mean, y'all have locations. I didn't even realize. Whenever I moved to Nashville, I was like, oh, Jennings must be a local Nashville brand. And then I was like, oh, they're in Ohio. Oh, they're also in Austin. Oh, they're in Los Angeles. And y'all are all over. It's exploding. And so you came out on the other side of 2015 pretty strong. What was the biggest takeaway from that crisis that you've taken in and has given you the ability to lead well through this crisis? I think just stillness. I mean, finding stillness into a place where you can make a decision, an informed decision, instead of reacting and instead of letting fear take over. I mean, that's really easy, especially as a founder. But I mean, I think that for anybody, because, you know, we're talking about the potential for this to be a game-ending situation.

For many, many companies, it may be. And ours is one of those. company's kind of on the edge of like, can we survive this? I mean, we don't have six months of, you know, capital just sitting away ready to like help us. And we're coming out of winter, which is not a great thing either. So I think that that's it, you know, just stillness finding your move. And that's been everything, I think. How do you make sure that you're not operating out of a place of scarcity? Because it seems like from a mental perspective, if you are leading from a place of this could put us out of business, you're not going to be an effective leader. So how do you position yourself to make sure that you're leading out of like, okay, there's got to be opportunity

in this, we've got to think creatively, to use your phrase, we're made for this, right? How do you preserve that, Jenny? First of all, you hire people who think that way. I mean, I think there's opportunity in every single, everything, right? And so you have to surround yourself with people who see the opportunity in everything. And it is our job to keep this company alive no matter what, no matter what happens in America, no matter what, you know, whether it's pandemic or not. And so you really just have to surround yourself with people like that and train yourself to be that way. If you're not, if you're the kind of person who, you know, get sort of paralyzed by fear, it's okay. You can do exercises to train your brain to think differently. But you have to decide to

see opportunity and everything. And some ways, the way that I've always trained myself to think that way is that I believe I'm good at challenge. You know, it's sort of like LeBron James, right? It's like any athlete, you know, of course I go straight to the top. But, you know, it's like being an athlete. You know, you go out there and you say, yeah, I have a hard competition right now. That's actually going to make me better. Yes, this is a really tough thing right now. That's going to make me better.

Yeah, let's go to the Olympics. You know, it's that idea of like getting in the ring every day. And if you're that kind of a person who's willing to do that, you're probably the kind of person who's going to see the optimism and, like, opportunity in even these horrible times. But you can also train yourself to be that way. And so you just, you know, see it as a challenge, take it on. Everywhere you go, every time you start to think that, you know, negatively or scared or start to like seize up, start to think, but what's the opportunity? How can I use my awesomeness, whatever it is that I have for the world to find opportunity right now? I was talking to a small business owner the other day.

He owns a T-shirt printing company and they primarily did T-shirt printing for live events around the country. And as you can imagine, I mean, they've been hit really hard by this because live events have been hit really hard. And he just said, like, within a day, the phones just stop ringing. He's like, there are no orders. The look on his face, he was, you could tell he was pretty down about this. And he literally told the group of business owners that he was meeting with. I made it through 2001. We experienced a dip then, but we were okay.

We made it through 2008. And he said, but I've never seen anything like this. And quite frankly, I don't know if we're going to make it. If he was talking to you and he was sitting across the table, maybe eating some ice cream with you, Jenny, and telling you that, what would you say back to him in? that situation. Well, it's tough without knowing the rest of his company, you know, and all of that. But I do think there's always a way through and sometimes it means you have to retract. You know, there will be sunshine. There will be a day when we get back together and we have events. And there also will be, in the meantime, some kind of in between, right? So right now on Instagram, I know everybody's

doing lives, you know, all the DJs and all of that. Like, is there a way to, you know, is there a way to link in with some of that online stuff because, you know, yes, at a concert event, you have a few thousand people who are going to potentially buy a t-shirt, but on something like that, you might have tens of thousands of people or even hundreds of thousands of people. And so is there a way to connect with some of those events that are going on there that are mementos of this era that we're living through? You could figure out how to do that. And especially if he's also okay at shipping and I can get that going. you know, I'm not saying that that's easy to make that kind of a pivot.

It's definitely not. You have to go out and meet all those people. But, you know, it's possible. But that's what I've noticed in this season is it seems like the people that are having almost like what you just did. Like that was a creative problem solving thought, right? And whether it's that thought or a different thought, it seems like the common denominator behind people that are thinking creatively, not just about, man, this really sucks where we are. But they're thinking about how do we move out of this.

It's like they've got some degree of hope, which is a good. exactly like you to express in the beginning. It's like, we're going to get through this. It's just more of a matter of how. I mean, is that an effective summation? Yes. I also think it's trust in yourself and your team. And I think it's sort of like MacGyver, right? Like, it's just you're MacGyver and everything when you're an entrepreneur or a founder. There's no day when you're not doing that. And sometimes it's really big and sometimes it's small. But what happens when you've spent decades as I have doing this, you gain a pretty solid trust in your abilities. and definitely in your team, now that we've got this incredible team, I think it's trust.

And I actually tell that to emerging entrepreneurs and young people who are wanting to be in entrepreneurship, trust yourself because you will get through it. But it's that questioning yourself and self-doubt that I think is the biggest obstacle. Whatever decision you make, you'll figure out how to swerve and pivot and do what you need to do to get to from point A to point B. Sometimes it takes a little longer, but it's always harder than you think it's going to be more expensive. And more expensive. I like that.

Was that a natural strength for you that enabled you to do what you've done since 2002, or was that a developed strength over time trusting yourself and trusting your intuition? I think I've oddly had a pretty deep trust for myself. Now, I was always an introvert. It's not that I was out there with like, you know, you wouldn't have thought that I had a ton of confidence if you had met me when I was in my 20s and there. You wouldn't have been like, geez, that person is like a very confident person. It's not that.

I don't know what it is. but I always just, I think it's possible that I spent so much time alone when I was a kid. I also moved every year, so I had to make new friends every single year growing up. And there's something about growing up in the Midwest, too. You just, you never, nobody ever tells you you can't do something. Nobody ever told me I couldn't have a business without getting a degree first. You know what I mean? And I think that a lot of people, you know, especially people who are so-called advantaged people,

I think that a lot of times their parents stop them from doing their ideas because they want to see that degree first. They want to see them with a safe career. first. And I just didn't have that. And I almost feel like it's one of my great advantages because I've been MacGyvering since I was 12. I mean, you know what I mean? My life. And so I started building trust pretty early on kind of by being out there on my own. I didn't have a strong family at all. And so I really was a lot of my own when I was very young. And so, you know, I was just on this great adventure. Wow. And as you were building Jennings, was there ever a doubt in your mind at any point,

maybe through adversity or turbulence or maybe in 2015 or maybe even in this season, I'm not on the right adventure or I'm not doing the right thing or this isn't going to work out. Did that ever cross your mind in your story, Jenny? No, it never ever did. I've always, I've had the same vision since 1996 that we're in what we're doing now is the same thing that I sort of envisaged. There are things that I could not have predicted. Like I never would have been able to predict how long the lines would be and that every single

person who stands in our line, especially at store openings, has a story and I listen to every one of them, that we cry sometimes, that it's like, I could never have predicted how incredible the community would be. But I did have that sort of vision and I locked into it. So I always say to young people like, find an idea. And the way you find an idea is by pursuing everything you want to pursue, whether it's skateboarding or science or whatever it is. Just do all the cool stuff that you want to do, things that drive you. And be aware of other people and what the needs are of other people. And eventually you'll find this place where like what you're doing is something other people might need to. And then you found the sweet spot. So once you find that, if you can

telescope it into the future. So I had, like, I'd been studying perfuming and art and pastry and thinking about being a pastry chef. And I was really all over the place, studying history and all of that. And I started making ice creams and ice creams were all about scent. And then I started telling stories through those ice creams. And now I realized this is my life. But I telescope it onto the future. And they like, gosh, American ice cream is fine. I mean, it's full of candy and nuts and stuff. Ben and Jerry's was really big then. It's great. But it was all full of stuff. It really wasn't about the ice cream and the experience of ice cream. I'm like, wow, America. can ice cream could be so much better. So then I telescope it out, envision the future that I could

create maybe, which looks a lot like what we're doing right now. Okay. And so wait, pause right there real quick. When you telescoped it out and envision that future, to what degree of clarity are we talking? Like what were you envisioning at that time? If we were talking to 96, Jenny, and said, tell me about your greatest dreams for your ice cream store. The vision was, hey, if Ben and Jerry's can do it, I can do it. Like, they didn't seem like they were that smart. You know what I mean? And I would I would see them in grocery stores. I saw stores around the country. And I just thought, you know, if they can do it in the way that they do it, which is awesome,

then I can do something similar, but in my way. And that's the entire artisanal ice cream sort of movement, which is the biggest movement since Ben and Jerry is basically an ice cream. My word. Yeah. Started from that little vision. If y'all are listening and you haven't been to a Ginny's, you need to find the closest Jennings right now. I'll tell you, Jenny, my favorite flavor combination is. is brown butter almond brittle on the bottom.

I'm very particular about this. It's a waffle cone, brown butter almond brittle on the bottom, and brambleberry crisp on top. And I don't like fruity ice cream. That's the crazy thing, but I eat brambleberry crisp. Like, shut up. Like, I tried it for the first time because one of my friends made me,

and I was like, this is one of the best things I've ever had. So I would tell everyone, I've got to know what's your favorite flavor that you've created, Jenny. Well, it's actually brown butter almond brittle. Oh, is it really? It's so good, Jenny. I eat at least a,

pint a week. Oh my gosh. If I was you, like, given your credentials and what you've done, I feel like you've got justification to eat a pint a day. So the fact that you only eat a pint a week is amazing. Well, that's just a brown butter all over because, you know, I'm also in the test kitchen where I have to eat for videos. And when I do ice cream videos, like on my Instagram, I actually eat the entire thing. So yesterday I made a hot fudge Sunday. So I keep filming the whole time I'm eating it and just talking to people. So I eat, I don't, not just like one of those chefs that like gets in the kitchen and then takes one bite, cameras go off, and then I throw it all the way. Like, I literally eat the whole thing. So I do eat quite a lot of ice cream, but I, I've learned to balance it.

I think of it. I have to think of ice cream as a meal, and I don't eat sugar or drink any calories. There you go. I've never legitimately, I think this is the first time I've ever sat across from a guest and just felt insane jealousy with regard to every part of their career and their life. Okay, so go back. You have that vision, and it seems like you've got a little bit of a competitive streak in you too because you saw ben and juries and you're like we're going to we're going to do that in our own way and it's going to work how long to you started actually telling people that because it seems like that's the next degree of boldness if people are actually going to be serious about their dream is to start telling people about it so in my smaller circle in people that i

knew well i was very open about it it was really just to like you know if somebody was interviewing with me with media or if it was a customer who I didn't know well. So in my inner circle, I'm the kind of person who tells everybody. If I have a goal, I tell everyone. And are they super supportive? Are they like, oh, yeah, that's a great idea? Oh, in the early days, it was like, that's very nice, Jenny. But that's a big deal when you've got people like good friends or even family members telling you like, that's sweet. That's a nice idea. Like, how do you persevere through that? Because that could be a little bit discouraging. Actually, what it is is it's infuriating, which is great because that's rocket fuel.

You know what I mean? If somebody was like, oh, I believe in you. That's wonderful. I'd be like, yeah, and I'm going to do it. You know what I mean? Like that's sort of like boring. But the fact that literally no one believed in me, and even like a couple of times I caught people going around the corner and I heard somebody talking about like, she'll never succeed. You know, she doesn't even, she doesn't know what she's doing at all.

A couple of times I've literally heard that. And you know, it's like you just get so mad. To this day, anger is one of my favorite emotions. I'm just a really, I'm sort of a chill person. So I might think of anger a little differently than other people do. I don't like shame, blame, guilt and making people feel bad. But I love it when I get a fire lit inside of me. And it's like, it can be anything from like the molecules are not right in the way we homogenize and whatever.

Like, we're not homogenizing, right. And I'll get in my car and put on some Italica until I just am raging. And then I go solve a problem. Do you know what I mean? Yes. But anyway, yeah, no, I mean, it's infuriating. People do that. And they do it to this day.

And it's just like, you know, underestimate me. That's perfectly fine because that's how you get the best work out of me. But it seems like that level of grit and just like, because I think anger can be bedfellows with passion in a lot of ways. Like I think the two go hand in hand. And it seems like that attitude that you're describing is going to be the type of attitude that gets people through this mess that we're in right now. Like it's almost like you kind of have to get a little bit angry. And the only difference is that now we're not getting angry at people. We're getting angry at this thing that we can't control.

And we're just saying, daguett, I'm not going to get beat by circumstance as we go through this. Exactly. I always say get mad at it. I mean, you know, if you're a person who works out, I kind of go in and out of that. But, you know, I do a better workout when I'm a little mad at it, when I'm a little mad at it because I want to do that last pushup or whatever. And I think that it's really the same. It's just like, get mad at it. Let your body get mad. Because you get adrenaline. It really propels you, I think, to beat it, you know, in a way that like if you're just trying to be like that chill, cool person, I don't know. Maybe that's not the right attitude. Nobody's ever told you. Go ahead. and be mad, but I do. I will. This is not what I think of, when I heard we were going to talk to Ginny, I think of like the cursive script outside the store and the super clean stores. I had no idea you were going to tell me to get angry. And I'm kind of, I'm kind of a fan of it, Jenny. I love it. Yeah, let it take over. I mean, it's wonderful. But, you know, you do have to be, I do try to be very aware of other people. So the idea of blaming others and shame and guilt and all

of that, that's really bad stuff. And it's hard because if you're upset because the color or something isn't right or whatever, which actually happened last week, you know, keeping myself back a little bit so that I'm not jumping on someone and ruining that or making them feel like it's something they should feel shame about, especially as a founder. Sometimes I can be, you know, people have put me in a certain different place. And I try to be very aware of that. And then when I, when I overstep, I'm a very good apologizer. Because I know I would rather do that and then just realize my mistake and apologize and then keep moving on. That's a great leadership skill, I think, that is not talked about a ton as apologizing. That's taking ownership. And I was talking a friend about this the other day. He had just told me he just had like a friend come up to him and tell him about something and just completely apologize for it and took ownership of it.

And he didn't even know it existed. And he was like, I actually trust that person more now because they apologize to me. It seems like that's a skill that can be developed by leaders. Well, I think it's impossible to be an authentic human being. authentic being, I'm led by how I feel about things. And when I think that something is right, then I do it. And I act on that. But it's impossible to do that always and never overstep.

You can overthink every move you make and never do anything wrong. I could never present it in the world that way. I need to be able to try things. And I think it's impossible to be authentic and never cross somebody's boundary or whatever. But being aware is really, really important. And being able to go back and, um, acknowledge it. And I have a way of apologies. When I apologize, I acknowledge. So I want them to know

that I know what I did. And it's not just I'm thrown this away. And then I want them to know I know how it affected you. And if I'm wrong, I want help with that. I want them to help me understand, you know, how it affected them. And then I want them to know what I'm doing to prevent that in the future. That's what I always do in every apology. So there you go. There's your one, two, three apology steps. That's a good template. So you acknowledge, you tell them you know how it affected them and you promise to do better in the future. I love that. Yeah. And I go specific. I'm solving this because so-and-so is now on my team and she is going to help me not send emails at midnight or whatever it is. You know what I mean? Yeah. Is that hard for you? Like, is it like, dang it, I have to apologize again or how do you

approach it, Jenny? Sort of, but I'm so used to it. No, it's not that frequently. I mean, it's only a few times a year. But no, I think that for me, my biggest value in life is freedom and just being able to be me and to accept me, but also get better all the time. And so you can't get better if you're not being open with people. And you also can't be yourself if you're not kind of just trying stuff. And I don't want to overthink things. I don't want to overthink everything. And so that you're just going to make mistakes when you do that and when you're a passionate person. I think the most important thing you can do is just acknowledge how you affect other people. And if you do, you do, you do, that, I think your team really does trust you. And they're along with you for the ride. They don't just

feel like you're trying to be, you know, so super diplomatic with them. Because I think sometimes people don't trust that sort of diplomatic leader, overly diplomatic leader. I think we all have to be a little bit of both sort of emotional and frank and there and then also sort of diplomatic and, you know, certain times. Man, that is, I do think it makes people trust. That's right. That is such a powerful dynamic that it seems like is required just as much as ever in this season right now. Because you've got what? How many team members do y'all have? It's got to be over like 600, 700, 700? It's in the thousand, I think. It's over a thousand right now, but that's, you know, during pandemic, so we didn't hire yet for summer. We're just starting to open for summer now.

And so, and it's with a reduced team and different. So, yeah. So we're at regardless, there's just so many people that you're responsible for and that your leadership team's responsible for. And we've experienced this here at Ramsey Solutions. We've got 950 people that work. in our organization here. And it's crazy. It's like the spectrum of how people are experiencing the situation that we are going through right now. It's like some people literally are acting like, this is no big deal. It's business as usual.

And some people are legitimately very freaked out and are like shaking, right? And it's like somehow you've got to lead in such a way that is empathetic to all those people and compassionate to all those people, but actually makes decisions so that everyone can hopefully keep their job. That is just such a challenging tightrope to walk. And I know our small business owners that listen to this are facing that as well. What are your thoughts there? Or how do you walk through that maze, Jenny?

Yeah. And at the same time, people, we are all looking for leadership right now. And so somebody who can make a decision and stand by it, explain it, communicate it, and then set it up for success, that's the person that we're all kind of looking at right now. So it still isn't easy. I mean, there's still going to be people. You know, in our business, we're noticing different cities based on the leadership in those cities. The people who live in those cities who work for us have a different sense of panic or ease. That's amazing.

And so in the south, it might be a little different from the north. And so we have to have a different game plan, I think, just in communication and making people feel safe in those cities. But ultimately, it's the same plan. It's just how we're communicating it and how we're bringing people along for that. I think that it's, we're looking for leaders right now. And if we're just kind of willy-nilly making decisions, I think people won't come along for the ride. I think it really is, can you make a decision and then also convince people of it and show that you're showing up every day? I mean, I'll be working at the stores too if we have, if we're open for scoops, which we're not yet.

But when we do, I'll be out there working alongside of our team too. I mean, you know, we're going to show that this is something that we believe in. We put a lot of work into this. Lots of other leaders in our company have. We put a lot of thought into this. We've all read all of the scientific, you know, all the science on this. We've listened to all of the governors and these are the decision we made. And then we're going to keep going forward with your help, you know, because our frontline team is going to be so much a part of this. And they already are in creating the solutions here that we all feel safe doing.

And also to keep our community safe. But I think it's really a two-way street. And it's like, it just goes back to our people trusting you. I think you can feel it when people do. And I think the way you get people to trust. to you is by being open. What does communication look like with your team members? So like say for the Nashville store here, what is the communication that they're getting

from y'all at headquarters? Well, we have a system of managers and general managers. So we have our guy at the top, Dan, and then we have Regis right below him. Regis sounds like an old guy, but he's a very young guy. I love it. And then each city has like a sort of GM in that city. And so those people are talking constantly, and then the general managers are spreading information in their cities. We also have something called The Scoop, which is a newsletter that goes out every Friday from all of us.

And it's shop specific. And then, of course, we have our bigger company-wide meetings about once a month as well. We're having Zoom happy hours. So we're trying to do that as well. And I can use video to talk to people as well. And so I'm starting that a little bit more now to you. or I've done one, but I'm doing it a little bit more. So we also have an open door policy.

So our team, anyone in a company understands that they can email me anytime. I'll do a conference call. I'll do a phone call. A lot of our shopkeepers have my number in their phone. So I just can't overstate the importance of communication and love, really, because I feel like you have to really care for your people. You're building a community. And in order for it to mean something to your customers, it has to mean something to you first

and you being the whole community. When we do that, then what happens, and you'll notice is when you go or a stores, the people who work behind the counter are so full of love and pride for the company they work for. That's what they're giving over the counter. And it isn't because they've been trained so deeply at Jennings. I mean, we definitely do training really well, but it's the pride that you're feeling because they're proud of the grower who grew the strawberries and the whiskey distiller and the team they work for for sticking with our values. They're proud of all of these things and they know that they get to hand that cone over that represents that. It's a pretty

cool thing. That is pretty powerful. What does open communication look like through this whole situation? Like, how are you making sure you're providing enough information and creating a healthy narrative within your organization? But at the same time, you don't want to tell people what to think or what they should be believing. So how do you manage that, Jenny? An example would be just helping people understand financial situation at the moment. You know, we're fighting really hard. We're very, very busy. I mean, our stores are doing, some of them are actually doing weirdly better. in delivery, a couple of places, not all of them. And it's just blowing our mind. And a lot of it has shifted to online and to grocery. I mean, it's crazy. So a lot of the people who work in

our company are seeing us as busier than we've ever been. And yet at the same time, we're down 50 percent, right? So, you know, in the end, we have to be very honest with that. Like, this is an incredible effort by everyone. And we would have needed so much more help if it hadn't been for the effort of this incredible team. And we don't know where it's going to go yet. We don't know if we're going to have a cold summer or whatever's going to happen. But on top of, you know, pandemic and people feeling scared. But we're doing pretty well. But nevertheless, you know, you have to help people understand that like, yes, it looks really great. You had a great Saturday. But this is the reality of what it actually is. And so I think there's that being really open about

just everything. And then also, of course, how we came to our conclusion. So making information available to people and listening as well. Yeah, absolutely. And that. That's one of the things we hear from small business owners all the time is they use some version of the phrase, I just want people that care about this thing as much as I do. And I want people to act like an owner, right? I want them. And it seems like part of that is like, well, you need to give them the information that owners have so that they can take ownership of this thing. That's true. And also know that no one will, no one will think that way. Even at 46 years old and having done this as long as I have, I realize that like, you know, weekly I feel like I'm hit with the, oh yeah, I shouldn't call someone on a Saturday at 10 o'clock. at night because this isn't their life. It's my life, but it isn't their life. And I've had to

really work at understanding that. However, you can get people to be really, really, really, passionate about what you do in your mission and what you're doing in your company to the point where they will answer emails in the weekend sometimes. You know, you have to like not overstep that and not overuse it to the point where they're just so committed. And that you do by being a real person, by living to your values, by being open and honest about those values. And then showing up and showing that that's how you and then you know holding everyone else accountable to those values as well that's what builds trust in an organization and that is we don't pay people as much as you might get paid the same amazing incredible talent that we have on our team might get paid

much more including our CEO to go work somewhere else but they are drawn to work here because this is where their passion lies it's not easy work but there's that passion behind it and as founders I think that's our role is to bring that to the company every day and if we can do that in the right way and also respect people's space and that they're going home on the weekends and things like that, then I do think that you build a team of passion and that's important. I'm, you know, so many years into this and still learning about it. So you can never stop learning, I think. Love that.

Do you have days where it's hard to put on that I need to be energetic today. I need to bring the passion. I need to just absolutely bring it. Or is it just like a man, you walk in one of your stores or you walk into a meeting and you're on just naturally? I will say that when I was, I just did a. commencement speech at a high school, and this is what my speech was all about. It's really fun. But when I was in high school, I got it my first job, real job. And it was at an ice cream shop that happened to be opening up down the street from me. And I was 15. And I was really nervous the

first day going in. And my mom said, do you know that Merrill Streep is really shy? And I couldn't believe it. And I thought, well, she's an actor. Like, how can you be a really introverted actor? It doesn't make sense to me. But I walked to work that day. And I thought, well, then I'm going to be an actor. I'm going to put on a character. So when I went to work, I just was like, my character is the best ice cream scooper in the whole world. So what does that character do? What are the habits of that character? It took me a while to develop even like weeks of doing the work. And I did that. And I kid you not, I won every award for the two years that I worked there. Like I was the best. I think I was there three years. The best worker. But what happened was I felt more comfortable there than I did anywhere else on

earth. Even at school, I really just didn't feel comfortable at school, but I felt comfortable working. And the reason was because I took all emphasis off me and put it on someone else. And so even to this day, when I can walk into somewhere like our stores and just put all of the emphasis on making them feel good, making them feel supported or on customers or on kiddos that I see or whatever, or even if I'm at a store in my personal world shopping, grocery shopping or whatever, and someone comes up to me. I just take emphasis off me, my ego, my emotion, no matter how hard the day is. In fact, it's a great distraction.

And just I can put that on. And I realize that I feel so much better doing that. I actually feel more like me when I'm doing that. And so it's almost like a meditative practice. That's pretty remarkable. I think I'm really good at it. And I think it's something that was like a calling, you know, almost like somebody might feel a calling to be a preacher or something. I sort of feel that.

That is so cool, Jenny. My aspiration now is to get handed an ice cream cone by you because I just feel like that will be the most magical experience ever, I feel like. It's like Jedi energy coming to yourself. Some kind of like, gosh, you've made a Lord of the Rings and a Star Wars reference now. You're crushing it. I haven't hit Star Trek yet. There you go. Very good.

So how do you take that? That seems like you could almost call it a core value or a guiding principle for you of we're going to take this energy inside of us and entirely focus on other people. And that's one of the things that Dave, our CEO and founder, he always talks to us about is, hey, we exist for the people outside these walls. We exist for the people that aren't in this building. So what have y'all done at Jennings to try and create that customer-centric attitude and perspective in your team members?

I mean, everything that we do is toward that, starting with how we treat our team members, because I think that how we treat them is how they treat others. And I think that how we treat ourselves, even self-care and self-love, you know, really starts with that. So we talk about that a lot, how we treat each other, how we treat ourselves, how we treat each other, and then how we can treat our community because of that. We just spend a ton of time talking about that and developing that, which doesn't really take that much developing.

I mean, once you start to behave that way and people get sort of brought into that embrace in a way, it's hard work. You know, I don't want it to make it seem like you come into Jennings and it's like flowers and unicorns everywhere or whatever. This is really hard work. And it's actually very mental when you're working with a new customer every minute and a half-ish, two minutes. And that new customer has a completely different mental energy to them. Some people have had good days, some bad. Some are frenetic because they've got everybody trying to order with through them or whatever it is. Every single customer has a completely different energy.

And you're shifting your energy to match theirs. that whole time. I think that's true of anyone in fast service, which I actually think if you want to be an entrepreneur, work somewhere fast service, get to know people. You get to know people so rapidly and like how to merge your emotions with theirs. If you can do that, you can make a product for people, right? Do that instead of going to business school. I don't know. That's what I would do. But because learning about people is the most important. Your people are so good in the line of just like, I mean, it is really hard to have, I would rather have a 10 minute conversation with someone than a a two to three minute conversation because it's like you can only talk about the weather for so long

but then you've got to get past that and keep it moving and y'all your people crush it like the people that are working at your stores i've had so many killer conversations like they keep a smile they keep the energy flowing so i've always wondered like how do you develop that how do you train that and it sounds like it's part of what you're talking about yeah i mean we definitely have training programs but i don't think it's at the level of say Starbucks who i just envy i mean i I think they have an, I obviously have an incredible training program there. I don't think that we're at that kind of a level. I think we still have a lot of trust in our teams to sort of, and I like that, actually,

because then it allows some flexibility for people to sort of be themselves. And we like that. We love the idea of flavor, diversity, different perspectives coming in and working. But definitely, it's funny because things like flavors, when we release a new flavor, you actually have to pass a test. I always thought that was very annoying. First of all, for somebody who did not do well in school. I mean, I actually did well on tests.

I just didn't do well in school. I hated school. I don't like to be managed that way. So that was kind of offensive to me. But the strange thing is it makes our team feel really good. They feel like experts. And when we can make them feel like professionals, like they're in charge of the experience that our customers have, right?

The idea is like when a customer comes in, you are in charge of that experience from the time they enter until they leave. What's it going to be? Right. And so they wanted all that information and more. The more we can tell them, the more they have to make. memorize the more they love it, which is kind of crazy, right? But it really, I think, goes back to then they feel like they own it, right? And that's part of it. It's just like giving them the confidence

to stand up and represent this incredible company that they love to our customers. And there's stories for miles, every single flavor. If a customer is looking at brown butter, almond brittle, you know, the story of Rold Doll can come up. Or if it's strawberries, the story of the Hirsch family can come up in the strawberries that they've grown for us for years. There's always something that they can sort of bring up. And then hopefully our goal is to slow you down as a customer so that you might think like, well, gosh, I never thought that vanilla could have so many flavor notes, you know, tastes like jasmine and honey and vanilla and like also a little leathery. You know, I just thought vanilla was vanilla. But because maybe somebody behind the counter seeds that information there, maybe you

slow down a little bit when you're eating it. And that is the coolest thing ever, just being able to sort of put somebody into the moment. Gosh, I love that. When you're looking to put, I think you said it was like a general manager for a region that y'all have in a region, is that correct? So looking over potentially multiple stores, that's a pretty high level of responsibility, it seems like. It seems like that person is largely responsible for being the face of the organization to a large number of people. What are the qualities that you're looking for in that individual to be selected as a general manager? And did they come from the outside or do you typically raise them up from within, Jenny? Normally they'd come up from within because it's just important to get

trained that way and know who you're serving, I think, in that role. And I think we train for hustle. I think it's, you know, in our company, certainly in the past, and we're getting better at it, but I think that this is still a role that needs hustle and sort of, I think of like swerving, you know what I mean, like just if you're ice skating or whatever, trying to get from point to point it to poit to poitie b, you know, you just sometimes you're going to go back and sometimes, you know, whatever, but like you've got to be able to to figure out how to do it. That goes back to like the MacGyvering thing. And so people in that role can just figure it out, because something always is going wrong.

A freezer is down. Probably several freezers are down right now as we speak in my company. What's going to happen to that ice cream? How do you transport it back to a freezer that works? What about the delivery that's coming today? You know, there's just always something and no two weeks are the same. And so we need people who can really sort of think on their feet and are comfortable and at ease in that role.

And a lot of people aren't and a lot of people are. And so you've really got to find that kind of person. And then once you do, of course, interpersonal skills are really, really great. I think it's important to be a leader. And there's all sorts of ways of being a leader in your interpersonal skills. But we just want somebody who people trust and have sort of a track record of that. It's very important because, yeah, you've got to command a lot of details. Well, and, I mean, with y'all's stores, too, you're leading, I mean, I would assume,

do you all have high schoolers working at your stores, college students? Sometimes high schoolers, and I love when we get high schoolers. I just people don't, high schools don't get jobs as much anymore in summer as they used to. And I think that's a big mistake. But it's one of the reasons that as Jenny is actually, I try to help them understand how to wrap up what they learned while working for us for a summer or two so that they can then put it on their, you know, write an essay about it or put it on their college admissions or do a speech on it or something like that. But anyway, so yes, we will have a lot of college and even now a lot of people who've graduated college were their first job. And so knowing,

all of those, we feel like how can we be a stepping zone to somebody else's to the next thing and somebody's going to do in their life or in their career, whether they stay with us or somewhere else. So how can we help them know how to articulate this forward in their life and what they learned during these years? And we try to teach everybody a little bit about business and management, leadership and things like that because that's important for them to articulate to their next boss or either within our company or outside of it. I mean, you are truly investing and pouring into the of people and developing them. It's just interesting to me that for a season, you were the founder and CEO. Is that correct? I don't like to, I don't feel comfortable with that. I like to say

I was never the CEO. People are like, was it hard for you to step aside? And I would say like, no, we actually operated as a company without a CEO. We operated with a founder and a brother-in-law and my husband who would jump in when I needed him to do like accounting or come close a store or something like that. We all just kind of ran the business. You can do. You can do that. You don't have to have a CEO when you're three or four locations and you're just starting an internet business and, you know, whatever. So we just kind of did it. I knew that we needed a CEO. And so, I mean, I've known that since we started, Jennings. We were going to grow to become a company that CEO would want to work for. And so it was how do we, as this rag tag team of people who luckily

didn't have any overlapping skills. So we were really good at sort of working together for the most part. How do we get our company to the point where we can afford a CEO, where we can prove that we have opportunity in the future that the highest talent we could possibly get would want to come work for us. So that was kind of a goal of ours all along. But not to say that it hasn't been extraordinarily difficult. It is difficult as a founder to make room for that. And I think I'm a pretty good, pretty good at doing that. And also John is my buddy. He's my friend. So it helped a little bit, but still hard. And hard for him too. Oh, yeah. I just think it's remarkable that you had the self-awareness from the beginning to say like, okay, that's not my lane. I don't really aspire

to do all of that. So we're going to hire that one day. I feel like most times when people bring in a CEO from the outside, it's because they hit a proverbial leadership rock bottom. And they're like, oh, shoot, I can't do this. I need to bring someone. But it was intentional for you. It was very intentional. And I think that it's really easy to think, oh, well, Jenny is a creative and, you know, in quotes and wanted to spend her time, you know, making pies and blueberries and ice cream all day and bringing flowers to people or whatever. Like, I think you to people, this idea of creativity is like mystical, you know, and it's not strategic. But actually, you know, I had this vision of what we could become. I had a vision of what ice cream could be. I wanted to take stabilizers

out of ice cream. I wanted to work on the challenge of ice cream. What can ice cream be in the 21st century that we couldn't in the 20th century? I wanted to work on that. And I wanted to work growing our community, which is business, right? That's the business of business. How do you bring more people into that community? That's where my strengths lie, not in organizing the back end to support that. And so without my work, there is no other work to do. And then also, I can't do that work if we don't have a very strong support structure behind me and behind the team that's doing that. And so it really is a complementary. And I wish that more, I wish there were more examples out there of this so that people like me who were starting out weren't thinking that they have to be the CEO in order to

protect their idea or that they have to be the one at the top, you know, this idea of the top. And I think that's really a 20th century sort of way of thinking. Honestly, I think you can sort of co-lead the company. I am pretty strong in saying that I think the CEO in the company has the last word. If John and I disagree on something, we take it to more personal, like a smaller, you know, we talk it through and we both have so much respect for each other that we're very good at listening to each other. And I, we don't have a problem in that way, but I do think that, I mean, there's always something, you know, there's always something that we're debating and that's great. And even a little bit of attention that goes on there. But I do think that you bring in a CEO

because you need to have one line of accountability for the health of your company. And it probably isn't going to be you if you're the founder. I mean, honestly, you need to, once you found a company, it's really all about the company. You put everything on the table and you put all your work on the table and the company becomes something that's different. It's like children, right? You don't own the children. You're not the CEO of them or the, you know, owner of them or whatever.

They become sort of, you're here to nurture them. We all have a role in that. And it's similar in a company. Boy, it's pretty remarkable. I mean, the skill set that it took to start Jenny's ice cream is radically different than the skill set needed to manage Jenny's ice cream. And it's just so brilliant that you now have John. But then also you have that whole C-suite of leaders.

what are the qualities that you're looking for in people that earn them a spot on that leadership team? Like, what does it take or what do you need to have from someone for them to be part of maybe even that crisis team that you bring into the room for those noon meetings whenever we get into a season like the one that we're in, Jenny? Well, I want them to be as good at their job as we can possibly get, and that is that leadership team that we have now. just I want them to be so good at it that I don't have to intervene very often. I mean, there will always be stuff, but they're always little things. You know, I'm interviewing when there's holes in the bottom of the cone or something like that. You know what I mean? Not like because we can't figure out line flow or whatever.

I mean, they're just so good at what they do that they're bringing stuff that we never would have thought of because they're bringing that in, whether it's finance or HR or shops or any or e-com or whatever. And then I think there is a, you know, we are a company that really is driven by our values. And so I think that we have these values of community and collaboration. So we want to make sure that our team, you know, it's really hard to when you get these amazing experts. They do sort of want to take something and run with it. But we want to make sure that we can collaborate and that we're all kind of being open with each other. So that's a really important personality trait on our

team. And then together we want to build trust. And it's hard, you know, because each person kind of wants to protect their work and their scope. And so that can, by nature, you know, finance versus marketing and whatever, create distrust. And so you've got to really work hard at making sure that we're being open with each other so that we can continue to trust each other so that we really are a team. I really think a lot about sports analogies. And, you know, you mentioned before that I'm competitive. I am very competitive, especially with my own self. I find a lot of analogies in sports. And I've grown a real appreciation for sports, even though if I watch it, I don't actually know how they work, but I do really appreciate teams and how teams work together for the same reason.

And I love racing, car, like auto racing, car racing. And I just love when there's the one racer who's going around the track, but when they pull in to the pit, all of those people swarm the car. It just takes so many people. You know, you think it's all about the one race car driver, but it just takes so many people to make that work. And I love to watch that moment. Is there a lesson that stands out that you learned in the Listeria crisis in 2015?

that you think is especially relevant for what small business owners are walking through today? Probably a lot of them. I think that big lesson, gosh, I mean, it will pass. So there's that. And so understanding that there will be a time when you'll be back to normal, you know. And that I think is that sort of trust for the future too. And then I think it is, it goes back to just find your step today, make that step, but kind of keep your long-term vision in your eye as well.

and then stick with it. Keep going. Don't stop. What are the biggest lessons or leadership lessons that you're learning right now, either in this coronavirus season or just holistically leadership lessons that you're learning as the founder of this company that's rapidly growing, Jenny? I mean, I think right now truth is really important and also not just truth, but shared truth. So all of us are sort of acclimated in the same place. And I think we're lacking that in America right now. And I think if as a company, America is a lot like a company, right? If it as a company we aren't united on or aligned on what our past was. We're not united on what our mission is right now. We're not united on what our vision is for the future. We can't go anywhere. We're just stuck. And so I think that is so important to sort of all agree, find that place of commonality and agree and then move forward, whether you're a company or somehow we have to figure out how to do that as a country too. When you take the past, the present, and the future, and I need to try and get everyone into some level of agreement within this little organization that I run or rather large organization that I run, that's a pretty big undertaking, right? How do you make that practical?

I really do think that you start with your story, your origin story. And, you know, everybody kind of is like, wow, you know, Jenny started in, you know, a tiny farmer's market. And now, therefore, we've learned all of our values from the farmer's market. And we work with the farmers still to this day that we've met. and the far, Jenny met in the farmer's market. And then we know exactly what we're here to do today this year. You know, we're here, you know, making ice creams that reflect pop culture now. Right now we have a role to make people feel good. We always do that. But I mean, even more in the pandemic. And so kind of all uniting around, how can we do what we're doing now and why is it different? What's going on now? And then looking out toward the future. Are we going to be growing so rapidly that our jobs are going to change like, you know, daily? Or is it a more long-term vision? What's the vision for the future because I think people do need to get behind. What are we trying to be that we're not now?

What are we trying to be that we're not now? How can we get better and what's everybody's vision? So they're all marching the same way. So I really do think that you do have to do that as a company, kind of a line around those three things. What's the thing that you're most excited about about the future for Jenny's right now? I'm most excited. I mean, I'm most excited about flavors that we're working on for next year. They're amazing and different offerings. Can you give us any hints? Well, you know, after we've gone through this year, the pandemic, I've been working on what can we do that's that we don't have to scoop on site because so it's kind of, you know, pre-packaged, but like in the best way possible, the most incredible offering that you, somebody could hand you and you would unwrap. And that way it's just extremely safe. So that's been a really fun project to just be thinking about right now. It's like really pie in the sky. But that's been super fun. How can we rearrange our menus so that if you're getting a delivery, we can do birthday parties. you know, but it's a delivery, or can we offer things on delivery that we wouldn't have offered before?

Anyway, those kinds of fun, I'm having a lot of fun with that. But, you know, you put yourself into like, well, what would I need as a customer? What do I need as a mom? And then kind of ideate from that point of view, which is really fun. I keep getting to like this point where I'm going to ask you my last question. Then you keep saying stuff that it's like, oh, gosh, I'm so curious about what you just said. It sounds like you are operating under the assumption of, okay, it will come. back, it won't exactly be quite back like it was. And so there's these options for the future,

and we better be prepared from a delivery perspective or a birthday party perspective or a pre-packaged perspective to be ready for that. That's kind of where your mind is. Absolutely. If this doesn't go back and if we don't get back to normal until 2023, which a lot of people in business are thinking, how can that work for us this next couple of years? Now, that may not be for customer facing. To a customer, we may be back to normal much faster. But also like, okay, so let's say it is faster than that. Can we make things that stick anyway? Are people, our habits going to be changed so much so that like, actually, it's kind of awesome because now our delivery is so much higher than it was before. So what habits have been changed there? What opportunities are there within that to continue on

so that we can serve customers where they're at as well? And so it's both, it's kind of dual. Like, if we do end up back to normal, that's awesome. I don't think we'll ever be back to what we were before. I think either we'll continue with more restrictions or whatever and more deliveries, or it'll be sort of back to a normal in terms of customer flow, but we'll be doing more deliveries, which is great so we can support that. And so we want to be ready to support that business if we can anyway. Well, and that's sticking with the adaptability and the agility that you talked about before, that is how you got here.

I love that. Yeah, and, you know, these may not happen. Like, we may be projecting incorrectly and, like, you know, all of this might go away in a way that whatever, you know, I don't know. We may table it again, but we're ready for it. I love that. I think that's a good summation of this entire conversation is we're ready for it. Whatever it is, we're ready for it, which I love.

Well, we so appreciate your time. We appreciate your investment and the way that you're leading your team where you are. And we really appreciate your ice cream. So thanks so much, Jenny. Oh, well, thank you so much. This has been such a fun conversation and just best of luck to everybody. I'll tell you, after that conversation, I legitimately only wanted one thing, an absolutely massive ice cream cone.

And here's the deal, folks. I know you've had ice cream before. If you haven't, I don't trust you. But you need to have Jenny's ice cream because it is seriously a whole other level of good. And I've got some flavor recommendations for you. You need to get the brown butter almond brittle because, oh my gosh, good night. It is probably my favorite flavor that they make. But then the other one that is just crazy good is salted peanut butter with dark chocolate

flex. I don't even know what a fleck is, but if it's dark chocolate, I'm in. Game on. So you can probably find a Ginny's store maybe near you, or if not, they also sell their pints in grocery stores around the country. And it's really cool to know that the story behind the business, the story behind the product is just as good as the ice cream itself. And that is saying something. And I think one of the most compelling parts of that conversation is how Jenny and her leadership team did not look at the crisis in 2015 or this one that we are all going through right now passively. They took an active and engaged approach to leading their team through the crisis so that they could come out stronger on the other side. And that's really what we want for every

small business owner in America. That's why we created a free training for all of you small business owners called How to Lead in a Crisis. Myself and John Falcons will walk you through the creation of a 90-day plan to make sure that you take care of everything operationally while also thinking strategically about the future and focus of your business. So if you want to walk through this free training, I want you to text, take action to 33444. Again, that's the word take action, all one word, no spaces to 33444 or just click the length that's in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership podcast. If you did, please give us a five-star review and tell your friends to subscribe. For a chance to win our $25

Amazon gift card, you can review this episode by clicking the link that's in the show notes. And be sure to follow us on social media at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hol and it was edited and mixed by Will Rudder. I'm Alex Judd and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team. Thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like the Rachel Cruise Show. Hey guys, it's Rachel Cruz, and I'm so excited to tell you about my podcast. A lot of people are living paycheck to paycheck. They're in debt. They don't even know where to begin, but they have this need, this want to get in control of their money. And if that's you, you have come to the right spot. So in each episode, you're going to get a ton of inspiration and practical advice. If not subscribe to the Rachel Cruise Show podcast, make sure you do it today. To hear full episodes, just search Rachel Cruz, wherever you listen to podcasts, or go to Ramble,

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