EntreLeadership - #378: 6 Drivers of Business Success with Chris Hogan

Episode Date: June 8, 2020

How do you become the kind of leader that is always driving their business forward? Well, the first step is to never stop growing. Ramsey Solutions’ own Chris Hogan shows us there are six core areas every business owner needs to focus on to constantly strengthen and scale their business. Listen as he shares from his own personal experience how to navigate the challenges of business ownership.   entreleadership.com/podcast Chris Hogan's website #374: The Secret of My Success with John C. Maxwell Learn more about All Access The 4 People You Need in Your Life - YouTube video EntreLeadership's Business Health Assessment 13 Ways to Build a High Performing Remote Team from BELAY  Review this episode for a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There is nothing more sad, frustrating, and disappointing than a business that has become stagnant. Complacency kills. But as we know, if a business has plateaued, there is one person that the leader of that business can actually blame. The person that's in the mirror. From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host Alex Judd, and it is a powerful day when a business owner recognizes that

The growth, success, and legacy of their business is a reflection of one thing, leadership. And specifically, here at Entree Leadership, we believe that winning leaders and businesses focus on six drivers, personal, purpose, people, plan, product, and profit. And today, to talk about all of these six drivers is Ramsey personality, Chris Hogan. This guy is a professional on the Entree Leadership Playbook. But as Chris will share, it's not enough just to grow in one of these drivers or grow in some of these drivers. You have to grow in all of them. I think it's like any kind of wheel on a vehicle that you drive.

If you've got a flat spot, that flat spot's going to affect the other wheels. Prime example, Alex, I'll tell them myself. When I first started driving, I didn't know you were supposed to rotate tires. Okay, I didn't. So guess what I did? I drove until the tires were bad. All right? And so I got new tires and the mechanic guy told me, hey, you're going to need to come in to rotate these tires.

And I was like, what are you talking about? He goes, for even where? If you don't rotate them, then you're going to get bad spots on the inside. If you rotate the tires, you evenly wear things. And I think that evenness is imperative for leaders. We all have areas we struggle in. We have areas that don't come natural. And the tendency is, is to avoid those other ones and just stay where you're strong.

Well, that's not effective. That's okay for survival, but not for thriving. And as a business owner and a leader, you got people counting on you, right? And so it's imperative that you're your best self. I love that you say people are counting on you because that takes this from going not just an opportunity to grow in these areas, but it sounds like you're saying it's a responsibility. Listen to me, I'll take it a step further. I think it's an obligation. And you look at opportunity, and I like that you use that word because you look at opportunity and you say, I could do this and it could lead to some things.

But with an obligation, you've got to do it. Why? Because people are counting on you. And I don't want to discredit. I'm an entrepreneur and business owner at heart. The business owner is more apt to forget about themselves. They're more apt to focus on their customers and their team. But they'll put themselves last.

And now, from a mentality, I think that's a good lens. But you have to remember, you've got a family as an owner and a leader to take care of. And so it's imperative for you to make sure that you're going, no, I've got to fit into this. equation as well. So we listed out the six drivers of great business and great leadership, and we're going to be walking through those today. It's personal purpose, people, plan, product, and profit. What would be the encouragement you would give people or the challenge you would give people before we walk through these in depth as to how they should evaluate themselves and their leadership? Well, I think the most important thing is to be open. Okay. Like, I want you to be

honest. Like, I've got Hogan's AAA process, right? And it's one of the things I use. I use. as I work with people. I want you to assess where you are. I want you to acknowledge what could be improved. Then I want you to activate a plan of action. So assess, acknowledge, activate. And I tell leaders this because I want you to be real with yourself. We can lie to ourselves, Alex.

Okay, now listen, you're a runner. Yes, sir. I've seen you running around out there. I drive cars you run. All right? We're different. But I'm going to tell you, as a person that runs, you know, if you're trying to go for your PR, right,

your personal record. Yes, sir. One of the things you do is you understand what you've done in the past, what needs to be improved, right, so you can hit your goal. Exactly. And it's important. I think the same is said for leaders. I think what you have to do is acknowledge, hey, I know my strengths. I know some places where I struggle. Now what I want to do is I look down these areas. I want to be open and honest about where I am so I can be clear about where I'm going. And if they do that, you've got a great opportunity to make some changes. Oh, you said be clear about where you're going. And it seems like so often people don't have the resiliency to put up with the struggle now because they don't have that clarity of vision. Can you teach us a little bit on how we go about

defining that clarity of where we're going? I think it's one of our key principles here at Entree leadership and it's don't lead alone. Like you can't go into this by yourself. If you do, then you are subject to your own thoughts and you're limited by your own potential. So going into it alone, you're captive, reaching out. That's why we have these mastermind groups in all access. That's why I encourage people talk to someone that's been through some battles that maybe have seen some things you haven't so you can listen to them and you'll honestly take their feedback.

And I'll never forget, I saw you talk at an event once and this really clarified it for me. You talked, you were speaking to people about their retirement, but you said the vision that I want you to have for your future is not just some general vision. I want high definition of it. Yes. You said in your big voice, and it was like the room shook a little bit. Can you explain to us when you use that phrase, high definition, what does that actually look like? Well, first, let me back up and let people know.

We have all seen a high definition TV. Okay. Now, Alex, you're a whole lot younger than me. Back in the day, we only had black and white TVs, all right? Then color TVs came on. Now we've got high definition. High definition TVs, it's like you're there at a sporting event, right? Well, throughout writing the first book, Retire Inspired, I was trying to get people to

to really think about that dream, really see the things you want. I had amazing coaches for me throughout my career that helped me to not only just be interested in my goals, but to get committed to them, right? And I'll never forget, the year we won the national championship in 1991, our coach brought in pictures of national championship rings, right, at the beginning of the season. Man, that's a vision. And he said, that's huge to get us to start to think about which one would we want, right? Now, that was a seed that was planted.

So I want people to see things clear. And I think seeing it, once you see it crystal clear, you can't accept not getting there. It makes it a little bit more real as opposed to just this thing on a piece of paper. And that's absolutely true for retirement, but it sounds like what you're saying is that is true for your business, your organization, but also you as a leader defining where you want to be. So let's go ahead and jump into the personal side of things. Let's jump into that first core driver of business. One of the things that I've noticed in my time observing Dave's leadership and your leadership here around the office is you are never not growing. And you are always reinventing yourself and transforming the ways you come at challenges, come at obstacles, and come at opportunities as well. What are the practical things that you do as a leader to make sure that you are constantly growing and moving forward and never becoming complacent? Yeah, I think that growth is critical. Anytime anybody thinks they've arrived and that they can't get better, I think that's where the danger creeps in.

That's where you start. And John Maxwell, we talk about it in Entree, the leadership lit, right? And if you're not willing to be poured into, you're not going to have anything to pour out. Yeah. So I think it's important to talk to people that you trust to kind of find out, hey, where are some areas I can improve? Like, I don't want you to tell me where I'm good, right? Tell me some areas that I can improve on. But I take it a step further.

Where are you seeing me struggle? Where am I not performing well? And so getting that feedback's huge. Not everybody wants to hear it, but you have to. How do you define who you trust to answer those questions? The people that I'm seeing that are doing it well. And I'm going to tell you, it has nothing to do with a title. I don't care about titles, Alex.

you know this. I don't, that means... That's an understatement. It doesn't mean anything to me. But if I see someone that's been here three years that's thriving in a certain way, I'll go have a conversation with them. Or if they've been here five years or five minutes, doesn't matter to me. My goal is to be committed to grow. Why?

Someone's counting on me. Someone is needing me to be the best version of me. And once I do that, then I'm helping someone else. And I think that's my leadership legacy. That's what I want people to look back on and go, that dude cared enough to push me encourage me, but to also teach me. That's a coach and that's a coach's job. When did you start thinking really critically about your leadership legacy? Was that something that came naturally to you? No. Or where did that come from, Chris? Alex, I sucked early on. And what I mean by that is right

out of grad school being put in a leadership position after I got my master's degree, I was associate manager. The guy that I was working under was a yeller, not a leader. He was a Yeller. He was a bully, so to speak, if you're being honest. He wanted everybody to know he was in charge, and he reminded them often, right, and just how he handled things. And I remember being there, that was totally different than the coaches I had worked with, but I thought, okay, maybe this is what I have to do for business. And so what did I do when I took over? I had a little bit of that in me, a little bit of that. Everybody needs to know I'm in charge. And it wasn't necessarily your fault. It's just what you saw. Well, it was my fault. I got to own it. I got to own it. It's okay. I can

watch stupid and not participate. That's so good. I mean, you can't. And we've all worked for village idiots, right? That's right. It doesn't mean that I'm going to have a trickle down impact and be that way. So it was a wake up call probably about three years in. And I realized I wouldn't encouraging people.

I was wounding them. I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't doing them a favor. I was stroking my own ego worrying about me being in charge. And so that began to wake up call. It was one of those where I went, I'm exhausted trying to be something I'm not. That wasn't my nature, right? And so that's where I tell people, you've got to remain authentically yourself as a leader.

You have to. And all you have to do now, it doesn't give you an excuse to stay stuck with where you are. But being you and now working to become the best version of you, it's going to take tension off your shoulders and you're going to feel better. It seems like sometimes that level of authenticity and self-acceptance, like that is a pretty popular theme today. and sometimes that can be used as an excuse for complacency. Yes. Because, oh, I'm just being myself. That's just who I am.

How do you make sure you don't become that leader that becomes stagnant and put it under the facade of self-acceptance? No, no. That's, you're right. Now, that's from a mature standpoint, you can't use it as an excuse. Listen, I'm trying to impact as many people as I can. I'm trying to help people get to where they're going, right? If you think about it.

That's right. I want to help them. So it's not about me. I don't come second, third, fourth, or fifth. It's not about me. So what am I doing to help someone else? And I think if you don't have that mindset as a leader, if you're putting you first, that's dangerous.

You need to go do something where it's just you because you're not trying to help people. You're just caught up in you. But I think real leaders are focused on serving. And that means how do I help somebody get to where they need to go, whether that's in my company or outside of my company? I want to have a positive impact on people. That's my goal. And so I think with that, I've just got a different lens.

I look at it. I was on the other side, and I know that's not helpful. It really isn't. I mean, you can make some money and you can make some progress, but it's not impacting people's lives. Before we move on to the next driver, my final question for you in this arena is when you work with leaders at our events or whenever you will connect with leaders around the country,

what is the greatest blocker that you see that gets in there, way of growing personally? I think it's a lack of reaching out for help. And it might be just having a conversation. I have had countless conversations with people in the lobby on an elevator, and they'll reach back out and tell me how much I helped them, right? I listened. I affirmed some things and I gave some guidance. So they helped them. I was just there as a guide. And so I think when we stay stuck or limited to our own thoughts and we don't reach out and talk to some, somebody. Just bounce it off of them, right? I think that's the number one blocker that's standing in the way. That's almost a paradox because we call it the personal driver for growth,

but what you're saying is it's not all personal. You have to reach out to other people. I think it's important. I think reaching out it allows us, listen, I'm a verbal processor. Okay? It means I process as I speak. Now, I can sit and think and journal. I journal a lot, but have you ever found that you've talking about something that's tough with someone that you trust? and as you're talking, you start to see it a little bit different. You get the answers. It's like the answers were inside you. And as the words came out of you, it's like, oh, my gosh, I'm figuring this out.

There it is. I've done this with you. I sat across the table from you at lunch. Gosh, it must have been a couple months ago. And all you did was ask these ridiculous questions. And I just found myself giving myself the answer. That's right. A couple of things happened in that.

Number one, you were willing to reach out to have the conversation. Number two, I was willing to listen, but we had dialogue. It was not a one-way conversation. We interacted. And so in that interaction, that's a safe place. That's a place to process out loud and to think a little bit differently. See, that's what leaders need. We need those people around us.

I did a YouTube video where I talk about the four people you need in your life. I say you need a coach, you need a mentor, you need a friend, and you need a cheerleader, right? You get those four people in your life, even as a leader. I don't care how successful you are. You get those four people in your life and watch what happens. Things start to change. But I tell people, not only do you need those four, you need to be one of those four for other people. That's so good.

So you're not just being selfish. Again, you're focusing on other people. And we'll put the link to that YouTube video in the show notes. But let's go ahead and jump on to purpose. We see a lot of times that there are some organizations where the leader doesn't even know that they need a mission or vision or values for their organization. But honestly, that is a smaller percentage of business owners today. More often than not, when we coincide with leaders at Entree leadership events, they have a mission, vision, and values. They know that those things

are important, but their organization isn't using them. They're not bringing them into the culture of the organization. So what would your advice be for that business owner? Well, I think the most important thing is, is understand, you're not checking a box, just having a mission statement, right? They require it in your business plan back in the day when people were doing SBA loans, you know, hashtag stupid. That's right. So you'd have to write down your mission statement or write down this thing. Listen, don't have it be something you've thought about. Have it be something you are about.

Okay. So that's something that you're living out. This is who we are. This is what we do. And so I think as people look at this, it's not just the static thing, but it needs to be a living, breathing thing. The mission, vision, and values of this place, it is in almost everything we do. You've been here for such a long time, and you've seen the organization grow since. How long ago did you start?

I've been here almost 15 years. So what higher number were you or how many people were? I think I was 150. Okay. And we're at 950 now? Yeah, yeah. So you've seen it grow and expand mission, vision, and values stronger, weaker than what they were whenever you started.

Oh, without a doubt, stronger. So how do we do that? It's intentional. And it's top down, but also bottom up. Meaning that you have people here that are bought in. This organization is like no other that I've ever been around, meaning you've got such high quality and high caliber people that can go out and start their own businesses. They can.

They're choosing to be here for however season, however long, but they're capable, right? And so I think that goes back to our hiring process, right, which takes time, which is why we teach on it, right? But I think in getting the right people in, what you do is you start. to get them to believe. If the leadership will show those values and how they handle things, how they walk through tough things, easy things, then what you do is you give proof to people that are coming in to go, this is what they're about. This is how this place functions.

And when people believe and leaders are consistent, what you get is growth. You really and truly will. What are maybe just a couple of hyper-practical actions, an organization that is run by a mission, vision, and values, what are some really, really practical things they could do starting today to kind of start to turn that tide? Okay, couple of steps. I think first and foremost, as the owner-operator, the main leader, sit down and think about why did you start this business? When you initially set out to do this, what were you trying to do? And I want you to take some time just write down. It could have been make more money. Maybe you were sick of working where you

were before. But there were some other things. I want you to get to the heart things that were driving you. Next, I want you to get with some core leadership people on your team or people that you trust and sit down and say, hey, this is who we are, this is what we're about. What's a statement we can get people to understand and rally around? And so begin to collaborate with those people to think about what this is. Just because you opened 10 years ago doesn't mean you can't revamp your vision or your mission statement. You can change. That's so good. So good. Okay. And that sets up perfectly for this people driver. And one of the challenges that we see so often business owners face is that when people are thriving and we're hiring correctly and everything's going great and the economy's awesome and circumstances are great, then people is two thumbs up.

But that literally never happens, right? And so people is the difficult part of business. I had a business owner the other day that came to a mastermind and he said, I've got a core leader here in the business that has been here for a really long. time. He said he's got tenure. He's extremely loyal. He's got a great attitude. But he said he is a very high D personality. And it seems like every time we have a meeting, he's coming in with a new idea, a new business plan, a new thing he wants to drive home. And he's just trying to push, push, push, push, push, go, go, go, go, go. And the business owner is saying, we can't pursue all these ideas at once. And at the same time, I don't want to put a damper on his passion. What do I do?

How do you answer that question? Wow. That's a real scenario. I mean, it really is. I think as a leader, what you want to do are the three Cs. You want to connect, you want to communicate, and you want to care. Okay? You want to connect, communicate care.

So this is obviously he's leading somebody that's wired totally different than him, someone that's got energy, passion. He said they're very loyal. Now what this leader needs to do is lead this person. Right now he's alienated them. You've got a strong personality type that is excited and encouraged. What I want to do is now begin to bridle it. Dave talks about the difference between donkeys and thoroughbreds, right?

That's right. I'm from Kentucky. This is a personal message to my heart. I know horses, but thoroughbreds love to run. I've never seen a race horse line up at the line that doesn't have a bridle. That's that thing to be able to guide that horse, to keep it on course so the jockey can guide it and they can run the race like it needs to be run. I think this leader needs to put some personal leadership things with this individual to help bridle that energy, meaning love the ideas, love the focus. And we're going to sit down and talk about your new ideas.

I want you to write those down for me. And once every couple weeks, I want to revisit. Let's talk about some of those. But first, what we're going to do is really drive into these things that matter most to our business. We're going to do the primary things first. And we'll look at these other ideas next. now this person feels like they've been heard. They feel like they're being respected.

But at the same time, this leader has taken back control. And so they're going to have to step into it, which makes people uncomfortable, right? Oh, listen, Alex, I'm tired of hearing about people being comfortable. People want to be comfortable. Nobody wants to be uncomfortable. Nobody would raise their hand and say, oh, let me be uncomfortable. But when you're dealing with people in tough situations, you're going to be uncomfortable. Good.

Get over yourself. Embrace it. and do it with your heart in the right way. And now what you're doing is, is you'll see an opportunity to be able to polish and shine this individual. There's potential with that high D personality. There's potential if you help him get to where he needs to be. Gosh, that's so good. And you started by identifying the fact that this person is not the problem.

They are a thoroughbred. They are a blessing to your business. Now you just got to figure out how to put the bridle on it. One of the things I've noticed about Dave is that that seems to be one of his greatest strengths is he leads leaders. And you mentioned it before. There are a bunch of people that work in this organization

that could start their own business tomorrow. Yes. But they stay here and they're committed and they're all in. What do you think it is about him? Because I know you know him well. What do you think it is about him that gives him the capacity

to lead leaders in that way? Well, we can go back to the first P of that personal side. He's always growing. Dave is constantly reaching out and letting me know about books that he's reading. I mean, he's still growing.

Is he 60? Oh, he's older than that. Dave's really old. But he's really healthy. He's old, but he's healthy. We'll share that clip with them. But he's constantly growing. And the other guys at the top of the game that I know, John Maxwell, is constantly

growing. And so there's this mindset of when you are comfortable in your own skin, have this level of humility, you're loyal and you care about people. and you want what's best for them, you can lead them. You know why? They'll let you. And people allow a leader to lead them. I don't want that to ever get twisted.

You can't force lead anyone. But when you have that respect and that loyalty, people will listen to you and they will follow you. You just have to lead them to a destination that's worth going to. And so I think having that mindset of really wanting what's best, not only for us, he tells us all the time. We don't exist for us. We exist for the people that aren't here, which goes back to serving customers well.

Can you hit home on how do you get your team to adopt that mindset? So if we're talking about people and we want to make sure that we become a customer-centric small business, what are some practical actions a leader can take or some things a leader can say to make sure we all have that focus? I think a few things. I think what you have to do is begin to really be serious about wanting to do that. Okay. Not just interested in it, right? Have you heard the difference between the chicken and the pig for breakfast?

No, but I got a feeling you're about to tell me. I'm going to tell you. Yeah, you can't stop me. I'm going to tell you. But when it comes to breakfast, the chicken participated, right? Laid an egg. That's right. But the pig was committed because we have bacon, right?

You get where I'm going with this? I get where you're going. You've got to decide as a leader, are you interested in my business growing and growing my people, or am I committed to it? If you're committed to it, then not only, are you teaching it. Dave takes the time to teach a core value at staff meeting. That's right. Right? We got a lot of payroll sitting in staff meeting. All 900 people. All of us. And we'll take time 15 minutes to teach on something. So you teach on it. You talk about it and you display it, which means you require your leaders to actually be that way. We talk about it and we show it.

And it's a process. It's not something that's going to happen overnight. But as you begin to illustrate it and demonstrate it and how you treat people. tough situations, easy situations. The team will start to not only see it, but they believe it. Gosh, I love that. That's one of the things that seems very prevalent right now is this whole idea of working on the business and in the business. And it seems like culture and the world today is giving the message that you need to build a business so that one day you can live on an island for three years and the business runs while you're gone. And it's like, that has not been our experience here. Like, Dave is here. And yes, he can take vacation.

And yes, he is not owned by his business. Right. But it seems like what you're saying is it's not enough just to talk about it and then to leave. You have to be there doing it as well. No, absolutely. You've got to plug in. It's going to require more work for you to go from business as normal to now this new kind of unfocused on my team. I want my team to get it.

Yeah, it's going to require more work because they're going to need to see you. They're going to need to hear from you. They're going to need to feel you. And what I mean by the feeling is, is that it's the spirit about you. I love when I go and I consult with businesses, right? They'll bring me in and they're like, I want you to help me, right? And so I can't do it as much as I used to. But I love going and watching the leader when they enter the room.

I like to get out with the team and watch. I want to feel the energy when the leader steps in, right? If the leader comes in and people are just kind of ho-hum, then it kind of tells me they're not connected. The leader's not connected to the team. But if the leader walks in and you can kind of see everybody just kind of perk up a little bit, kind of eyes get a little bit brighter that tells me something. Okay. And so it's that mindset for us to go, are you having an impact?

Does the team ever get to see you? Are you walking around? Are you asking them how they're doing? Are you checking up all them? Do you show up in unexpected places? And what I mean by that is I'll never forget. I had started, I'd been with the company three months, three months. And Dave shows up at the hospital to visit a family member of mine, okay?

A family member. What are we doing? Like, you know, I wasn't there. Family member called me and said, hey, Dave was just here. And I go, Dave, who? He goes, Dave Ramsey was just here. Came by to visit. I go, you've got to be kidding me.

Dave was out, making rounds, seeing family members checking up, seeing on how people were doing. See, he wasn't doing it in front of me. He was doing it because that's who he is. And so I want you to be that unexpected leader. I want you to show up in places. I want you to arrive at things. I want you to be there for people that are on your team and let them know that you're different. And it's not just telling them.

I want you to show them. It's how you support them. It's how you listen. It's how you help them in their times of need. That stuff makes a difference, man. And so loyalty is not something you can buy. It's earned. Can you speak from your personal experience three months into working here what that meant to you that he showed up at the hospital that day?

Alex, I can tell you it was a game changer because I went, oh. That was exactly what was my response. Oh. And I'd come from a extreme corporate organization and banking. I'd seen the CEO three times, maybe. And so for that to happen, it meant this guy's not just talking about it. He's living this. He's different.

I remember saying that. This man's different. And that difference was real. It was authentic. And so it just sets the course for everything, right? because you trust and you believe and you'll follow someone that is authentic and being real. Isn't it crazy how almost overnight so many businesses suddenly became remote working organizations? And for people that have done this for a long time, it's business as usual.

But for businesses like ours where it's like, holy cow, we've never done this before, we've got a lot of questions. Like how do we maintain our culture? How do we make sure everyone's moving in the same direction? How do we structure communication and make sure that we run these Zoom meetings in a way that's not incredibly awkward? Well, the team over at Belay has a 100% remote workforce, and they've been doing this for years, and they've compiled everything that they've learned in a guide that's called 13 ways to build a high-performing remote team. It's going to give you a bunch of tips and a bunch of practices for making sure that your team performs and stays connected and unified while they're working

remote. So if you want to download this free guide, just text Belay to 31996. Again, to get the free guide, text the word belay to 3196. I've seen you teach leadership at our master series and summit events for four years now. And it seems as though one of the foregone conclusions that you always operate with is that your people are watching you. That is not a question. So can you speak to that idea that if you are playing this role of owner, whether you want it or not, eyes are on you. Oh, it is. And I would say this, if you don't want it, get out of the way. Like, find somebody that does. Find somebody that cares and wants to engage. Maybe your time has come. And I'm being real with that because I want you to be authentically you, but I want you

to care about the business, your team, as well as your customers. But you are on stage. Just day in and day out. People are watching you. And so how you act, how you act, how you act, how you speak. And it doesn't mean you have to be perfect. But what's leading you? What's driving you? And if you're one of those leaders that shows up and goes into the big corner office and closes the door and they never see you where you're an invisible leader, right? So all of a sudden now when things get serious and you want to all of a sudden now have something to say, well, you don't have an audience because nobody's used to hearing from you. That's right. So I want you to be real and be authentic. Okay. So let's jump to the plan driver of business now. I think most

business owners, if they've been in for a while, they know the need for a plan, right? But so often the greatest challenge is they are surrounded by potential distractions or deviators. And your line, man, your line is focus not finish. You know the importance of focus. And it seems like so often the greatest thing that the business owners that we interact with lack oftentimes is focus. So what are some things they can do to start to cultivate that quality? Well, I think first and foremost, I think it comes back to scheduling. I think you've got to make sure that you are scheduling your day and time and margin. For example, I actually will schedule time to walk around this building. Really? I schedule time to walk around just to check in on people, see how they're doing. Why,

you got to be visible. So it's important, right? But I also set time to be strategic as well as tactical. And so I block that time. I get somewhere quiet and I focus and I do what I need to do. I don't, this is the phone, the things buzz and ringing and dingin. It doesn't. Listen, I don't even pick it up. Why? Listen, I'm not going to let somebody else's urgency become my emergency. Oh, man.

That's tweetable. Yeah, what is that? Say it again. I'm not going to let someone else's urgency become my emergency, which means I do learn to focus. I do kind of zero in on and I've got to take care of the things that need to be handled. So be 100% present. And you're in a meeting, be in that meeting, right? If you're in a strat op where you're working on something, be there.

But also, if you're at home, be at home. And so learn to put those boundaries up for yourself and just focus on being 100% present. So we've got the plan laid out. We want to be present with the plan. We want to be following the plan. Inevitably, circumstance does occur. There are sometimes where the best answer is to stick to the plan. Right.

There are some opportunities where we need to choose a new route or follow a new path. because circumstances have changed. How do you evaluate that decision as a leader? Well, Alex, first of all, first and foremost, it was called a plan, not a perfect, right? So the plan gives you a guide. I want people to think of that, right? The goal is to what? Follow the plan or get to the destination?

Destination. You better believe it, maybe. And that's me. I want to get to the destination. So I know what I mapped out, it's not going to follow that perfectly. And so if you're rigid and you're all just caught up in, well, it's got to be this, this, this, You're going to fall. You're going to get frustrated and irritated, and you're going to mistreat some people along the way.

But if to get to the destination is the goal, then I'm okay with adjustments, right? I had an opportunity to spend some time with the military. A couple years ago, I went to six military bases. Wow. And what blew me away was hanging out with some, let's call them, special forces people. All right? Bad dudes. Yes.

Okay. They get stuff done. They made me nervous. Okay. They made me nervous because they, you know, I was bigger than some of them, but I knew they knew some stuff. But talking to them, they plan for the unforeseen. And at a group of six to eight of them, when they're going in on a mission, they told me they know each other's responses. They know each other so well that they know if this goes, they know exactly what's how someone's going to respond.

And it's because they've trained together for many, many hours together. And I thought, see, the value of being known, right? knowing the destination, knowing my team, knowing my team, and knowing that, hey, we're going to rise to the occasion. We're going to do what's necessary. See, that's the thing where you can handle the things that pop up. You can handle the unforeseen. The team's going to know how you're going to respond as a leader, that you're not going to freak out, that you're not going to cower. You're not scared to make a decision.

Why? Because you're not scared of being wrong, right? The goal is to get to the destination, not to be right. And so that changes the whole spirit of everything. And it sounds like what you're saying is you are setting. expecting expectations that this plan may not work out. But again, we're going after the destination. How do you cultivate a culture where that is the case? And people have that perspective. I think you have to set the destination and talk about, hey, it's not going to be easy, right?

We're going to have challenges. We're going to have obstacles. And who knows, the Lord is in control. He may readjust and he reserves the right to, right? That kind of thing. Talking to the team and lets them know. But this is how we're going to act along the way. this is how we're going to treat customers. This is how we're going to treat each other. And this is what's going to be necessary from all of us. And I think as you do that as a leader and you talk about, had the audacity to dream out loud as a leader. Like leaders are good at writing it on paper and maybe telling you and I when they bump into us.

Tell your team. Like dream out loud. And the leader goes, well, what if we fail? Okay. But what if you didn't? Like, what if you got there? And if you never told the team that was your goal or your thought process, y'all never had a chance to do it together.

So you had a surprise party and it was just for you. That's a problem. Gosh, that's so good. And we're doing that a lot around here right now. They're saying we're going to be a billion dollar organization and we're going to do it five X the revenue and three X the people. A lot of people, it seems like, don't have that muscle or never strengthen that muscle to be able to be audacious like that.

How do people cultivate that muscle to lay out a big, hairy, audacious goal and then create the plan to get there? I think you have to have had the courage to have failed before. You just do. Like people that fall down, you remember back riding and learn to ride a bike, right? You know, and once you fell down, you go, okay, well, this is what happens, right? So I don't want that to happen anymore. So I'm going to do the best I can.

But if it happens, it happens, right? I'm not scared of failing. What I'm devastated by. What gives me nightmares is not trying hard enough. Okay. So I think that kind of spirit can be contagious for your team. Oh, absolutely. If they're around you enough and they go, well, I want that spirit like a scientist, right?

Scientists never fail. It's experiments. It's the experiments that don't succeed, right? And so I tell leaders, think like a scientist. Be willing to try some stuff, right? You don't have to be perfect, but I want you to be perfectly capable of involving your team, caring about your team, and serving your customers. If you do that, you don't really fail.

Gosh, that's so good. Okay, let's jump to product. In small business, it seems like a lot of time, the business owner can be the product to a degree. Because of course they have a tangible product or service, but the thing their community knows is them and they know their face. So that is in some degrees related to your world. You're a Ramsey personality and people follow the Chris Hogan brand. So what are some things you think about to make sure you carry yourself in such a way that people, trust that brand being Chris Hogan. Well, I just think it's being consistent. You know, again, I don't think it goes back to anybody being perfect, right? And I think if you start to buy into that hype, it can bring some headaches and heartaches. But my goal is to be a great coach. I want to impact people's lives. I want to help people get better, whether it's leadership or in their money.

And so I'm clear about that. And so I don't have a problem. Like, little lady stopped me in the grocery store a few weeks ago. She goes, you sound familiar. I said, okay, all right? And she goes, what do you do? So I was telling her, and so we end up talking about her investments, right, for a little bit, which is fine.

And I don't have a problem taking 10 minutes to do that, right? That's okay. You know, the Hollywood types are people in that realm. That's nowhere near where I am. I just care about people. And so that because I do that, I want to be connected to them and I want to help. And so I think having that mindset around it, it does make you aware of where you go and where you are.

And most importantly, what it is you're doing, you do have to remain aware of that because you do want to protect the brand. Sometimes we see that business owners will maybe have some guys they're sending out in trucks or sending HVAC people to people's homes. And the biggest thing they're anxious about as a business owner is, man, that person is now a walking billboard for me. And I feel like I understand that way more than that person does. How do you start to teach that level of awareness around protecting a trusted brand to a team of people? You just threw me a softball and you know what I'm going to say. Talk about it. Talk about it.

Be accountable to it. That's what I'm going to teach this team member. I want them to understand what it is we do, where we've come from, why we're in business. And so if I've hired right, I'm leading well. This person can understand that. But I'm also going to inspect what I expect, which means I'm going with them. I'm going to have them go on some calls with me as the leader to see how things are done. And then they're going to go on some calls and I'm going to let them take the lead and I'm going to watch them.

Right. And so you prepare people to be able to go further. And so I think that's important. If someone's not doing it right, we got to teach about it. We got to correct it. We've got to have a conversation. Things won't fix themselves. So I've got to talk about it with that person, hold them accountable to it.

And if they're unwilling, then I have to be willing to let them go. Right. I've got to let them go do what it is they're designed to do. I can't beg people to do the job. I'm not. I'm not getting caught up in that. When you do that as a leader, you're becoming a hostage now because you're allowing people to rule you. So be the leader, hold people accountable, but show them what's expected. And then with regard to that arena of accountability, if you've got someone that they're not making big mistakes and they're not even making intentional mistakes, they're just being a little bit careless and they're just not thinking about it through, how do you coach that person effectively? Because it doesn't sound like you just walk in and ream on them one day. What is the proper approach?

I think you have a conversation. Like, I want to understand kind of what they're thinking. I need to find out as a leader. I'm being honest here in that type of situation because I had that. with someone. Am I being too rigid? Am I as the leader? Am I just kind of am I blowing things out of proportion? Or is this a growth moment? And it is a growth moment, either for the team member or for me as the leader. But the best way to find that out is to have communication. The other side is this, I have found that in those moments where someone is doing something a little off or not performing well, if as a leader,

you'll just have the courage to go have a conversation to check in on them, right? Just to see, how are you? What are you working on? How can I help? It's amazing what you can uncover, what's going on in their lives, or what's happening at home. It's amazing. And a connected leader is a leader that has an advantage. And so it could be the performance thing, or it could be something else. As a leader, it's your job to find out what that is, but to also help. So you want to teach, guide, and correct, right? As a leader, you're always doing that. Teach, guide, and correct. You never get to stop. Those three questions you just listed. I feel like those were intentional. So can you say them again? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I'm going to ask them, how are you? What are you working on? And how can I

help? Like imagine. I mean, seriously, think back to your previous job. Okay. Right. Did anybody ever ask you that? Gosh, if they did, it was rare. Exactly. Me too. But the time that they did, I absolutely remember it, though. Of course you did. Why? Because you go, wow. Yeah, somebody is. And caring enough to even ask, right? How are you? And so I think if we as entree leaders can be intentional to get around to everybody throughout the week. Now, I know some of them have big companies out there and can't make it to everybody, but have your leaders help you by getting around and just checking in on people. How are you? What are you working on? How can I help? It's amazing what that starts to build. It builds a road of communication. That's a two-way street.

And it seems like the natural result of that of you caring for your people is that they're going to be caring more about that team, but also what they do every day. Absolutely. And guess what? That means they're caring about the customers. But also, and this is not the reason you do it. But as an entree leader, they're also going to care about you. Why? Because you've made a difference. You've been a leader like they've never had before. They've never experienced anybody like you. They've never been around anybody that's had their back like you do. And so now when a headhunter call, that's offering them a dollar more an hour or five grand more a year, they're more apt to stay with you because they've got a track record. They trust you, right? And so it's this crazy thing, Alex, but it builds this thing that gives an opportunity for growth. Because when you've had people that have been with you a while,

that can answer your questions for you, that's a valuable commodity. Don't disrespect it, appreciate it. So we address personal purpose, people plan product, and now we jump to that last one, which is profit. And it's amazing because everyone knows this is part of business, right? And profit is a huge part of business. Sometimes we see business owners get really tense and anxious around this topic. And it's not because they hate money, right? They clearly don't hate money. They love money,

but they're afraid of being perceived as being greedy or selfish. How do you counter that tension or what would you say to that person? Well, first and foremost, profit is letting you know the health of your business. Right? And so if we're not feeling well or our car is not performing well, we take it to a mechanic or we go see a doctor. So if your business is doing well, then that means it's a healthy business. Healthy businesses mean you get to serve customers and you also get to keep team members. Okay. So that's the first metric in my mind. The second metric is this. If you have the right heart and you're focused and you're serving people well and you're treating your team well and you're celebrating them, I don't care about someone's opinion. Okay. Opinions are like yesterdays. Everybody's got them. I'm not worried. If you, listen, you're going to have somebody saying something at some point. If you don't have some kind of critic or somebody out there throwing some shade, okay, I'm hip, Alex.

Shade is kind of criticism and stuff. That's right. I said, throwing some stuff. I read that the other day. I thought I'd fit that in. But the bottom line is if you're not ruffling some feathers at some point, then you're not trying hard enough. I'm going to be honest with you. But ultimately, what matters your heart, your relationship with your Lord and Savior,

and your clarity on how you work, how I'm treating people. I'm not worried about what people are saying. I'm worried about what my team is feeling. And if they're feeling that I have their back and I'm being loyal and I'm being generous and my customers are feeling well served, this is an okay thing. Why? Because ultimately as a leader, you've got a family to take care of. You've got an obligation.

And so it's imperative for things to go well. And it's imperative for you to have the right heart and spirit. Well, there you go. Man, that's powerful. All six of them, you just kind of get. as a master class, I feel like. I was thinking about how we close out this conversation, Chris. And I think one of my favorite parts of our events, I love all the speakers and all the teaching that you do. But I think one of my favorite parts, specifically of our master series events, is when we go to those receptions with the business owners and just get to break bread, break a whole lot of bread, right, lots of food, and just sit down and talk.

And it seems like every single time we're at one of those, I can always find you in the room. It's like I see a person you're talking to and I can see from across the room and I have no clue what you're saying, but I can just tell it's a coaching conversation. And you are absolutely coaching them towards a better business and a better future for their business. Pretend that we're doing that right now with everyone that's listening. And you get to put on your coach Chris hat for small business owners in America. It's a little bit of a roller coaster right now. And people are questioning a lot of things. They're doubting a lot of things.

You just gave them a ton of great information, but now they need to do something with it. What do you tell small business owners in America? Wow. Okay. Alex, you throw me a little curveball here. If I were sitting across from this is what I'd do. I'd say, listen, you have put in a lot of time and effort in this week. You've heard a lot of information.

You've synthesized a lot. You've thought about things that are going well. You've thought about some things that need to make changes, some things that need to be tweaked. You can do this. I believe in you. And you've got people that are counting on you to make these tweaks. And I want you to have the courage to go out and take one step further, to not lead alone anymore, that you understand that your business is valuable and you're making an impact in people's lives.

And I want you to keep doing that with the right spirit. But I want you to have a spirit of confidence, not fear. You were designed to do this. This is not an accident. And I want you to be intentional with this opportunity. I want you to get back and I want you to help to polish and shine the people that are on you. your team. You as a leader, you may be the only family that they have. And so I want you to treat them accordingly. I want you to push them. I want you to strive. And I want them to see you striving for

harder and for better. And if they see that and they'll start to believe that maybe they can too. And so you speak those words of encouragement, but you take that proactive step of getting people to believe that better is available, you just have to try. Man, there you go. I'll put you on the spot and you just crush the spot. Holy cow. Hey, we're grateful for your time. We're grateful for your investment and for your intentionality. Thanks so much, Chris. Thank you, my friend. Gosh, every time I get to listen to and learn from Chris Hogan, I just get so amped, psyched, pumped. I just need to go do something right now. And I know that y'all share that same feeling. He has an absolute gift for giving information that's equally inspirational, but also remarkably

practical. And I also get so excited because one of the things that we've seen here at Entree leadership is that with all the small businesses that we've worked with around the country, but also with our business here at Ramsey Solutions, those organizations win when they focus on these six drivers. Like, this is the path for winning in business and having a blast doing it. And so you're going to be hearing a lot about every single one of these areas, a lot moving forward on this podcast. But our team created something really cool for you, the business owner, to really assess

and evaluate where you are. with regard to everything you just heard from Chris Hogan. It's called the business health assessment. And it really helps you understand whenever you look at these six drivers, what are your strengths, what are your weaknesses as an organization, and what do you need to do to move forward? So it's a completely free assessment. And if you want to take advantage of this resource, I want you to text the word progress to 33444. Again, that's the word progress to 33444.

And we will send you the link of the free business health assessment. assessment. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership podcast. If you did, please give us a five-star review and tell your friends to subscribe. For a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card, you can review this episode by clicking the length that's in the show notes. And be sure to follow us on social media at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, and it was edited in Nix by Will Rutter. I'm Alex Judd, and on behalf of the entire Entree leadership team, thanks for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.