EntreLeadership - #395: Pitfalls to Avoid in Your Leadership with Dr. Chip Dodd

Episode Date: October 5, 2020

Fear, anger and shame are generally NOT the emotions we get excited about using in our leadership toolkits (or in life). In fact, leaders are trained to leave emotions at the door or to believe that emotions are a sign of weakness. But Dr. Chip Dodd, author of The Voice of the Heart, says these “weaknesses” are actually tools for strength in business and in life. Tune in as he shares the true value of human emotions, the pitfalls of leadership, and why he’ll never get on an airplane with a fearless pilot.   entreleadership.com/podcast Dr. Chip Dodd's website The Voice of the Heart by Dr. Chip Dodd Learn more about EntreLeadership Advisory Groups How to Live podcast from Dr. Chip Dodd Leadership Growth Assessment EntreLeadership Toolkit Review this episode for a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card   Want expert help with your business question? Call 844-944-1070 and leave a message or send an email to [e-mail]. You could be featured on a future podcast episode! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, maybe you're like me and that when I started out in leadership, I was reading books about how to win in business, how to hire, how to fire, how to put a team together, how to read a profit and loss statement. You know, there's all these practical pieces of business that we just kind of dive into them almost like they're puzzle pieces. The theory is if you get all the puzzle pieces right and you put them together in the right order, you're going to have a successful business, right? But here's the part that nobody tells us. It's emotional. And early on, I didn't really want to acknowledge or admit that that was an emotional person, because emotions, to me, at that time, well, it felt like weakness. And if you're weak, well, you certainly can't lead, right?

From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, Daniel Tarty, and today we're talking with Chip Dodd about what it means to be a fully integrated leader. Chip's an expert in leadership development. He's a coach, an author, a speaker, counselor, and a therapist, which means he knows the importance of bringing all of what a leader has to offer, their head, their heart, their mind, and their emotions into the same conversation so that we can maximize our impact as leaders. And it all starts with a clear definition of what it actually means to lead. I think that there is a one true primary type of leader.

And that true leader is the point of the spear is actually a visionary. And that person is the one who has something within him or her that's compelling them to go towards this thing that they have not ever realized. But they're moved from within. And that thing is like what they think about all the time. and so they have a call upon their lives, but it's a call that's from the inside out. The true leader. So that leader is a person who has a vision,

and it's ruled by, pushed by a passion. And a passion is a willingness to be in pain for whatever it is that this person's headed towards, so it's a willingness to be in pain for something that matters more than pain. So a leader is a person who has this thing going on inside of them that they can't stop thinking about. It's almost like tilts towards illness in some ways like obsession.

And then that leader is someone who says, I'm going to go do this, and then they put out a call. And that's where you have full-hearted participants. Like, I'm going to go do this thing. Anyone interested? Anyone feel led to it? Because if you are, come on. So the leader is actually listening to something greater than himself or herself. And then the participants are called towards the vision the leader has, but they'll follow the leader towards it.

Yeah. So a leader is a person who is going to cast a vision. They're going to encourage, exhort, teach, they're going to challenge, they're going to call forth, they're going to exemplify, they're going to show. And so they've got to stay really healthy because people are following their hearts while they're following this vision. So the vision, the people that join them are doing it through invitation, not through just fulfilling a role. It's invited to be a part of something bigger than myself. I love that.

The true business. You know, I'm thinking about how you're defining that. I love it. I think in my own leadership journey, I was trying to get really good at vision and being a leader because I had the title of leader before I really had that passion. I didn't understand what is the thing I have pain about that I'm willing to suffer, that I'm willing to, you know, this is bigger than me. And I remember struggling a lot and kind of feeling like I was faking it until that passion thing showed up because I had the responsibility and I was told be good at vision so I'm reading books about vision and I'm you know casting vision like you're supposed to the five steps to casting vision but it wasn't coming from my heart yes and you're talking about something that's inside you

that's a passion that you said you would be willing to be in pain yeah what is it about the being in pain component of that that's significant we could we could probably if you sit down with any what we think of as a woman who's like she says I've always wanted to be a mother so when she becomes the mother, then you get a great picture of what passion looks like. It's a willingness to be in pain for something that matters more than pain. Any time of night I'll get up. When I hear the cry, I go out. If they're in the street, I step into it.

I mean, I'll step in front of a bullet. A willingness to be in pain for something that matters more than pain. So the vision of what she is picturing this child having or becoming is directed by that thing inside of herself that's willing to look. stupid, willing to even have people say things negative about her, as a willingness to challenge the processes around her. I mean, it allows her to stand up and show herself from the inside out rather than being concerned about the external locus of control. In fact, it's like a person who is walking in passion, they've got how life works. You be who you're made to be, which is like a certain thing we may talk about,

then out of being who you're made to be, you do what you're made to do. And then you'll have what you're made to have. And like in really a good business, money is a byproduct of doing what you're made to do or doing something well. And even if it's widgets, I mean, making great widgets that end up plugging into a certain instrument.

If the person has a craving for excellence, those are going to be great widgets. Well, what do widgets do in life? Well, they fit into this instrument. But doing it well, is being, doing, and having versus doing, having so you can become somebody. You know, it's such a great, I don't know if you call it a hierarchy or a foundation that builds in that order. And I also think that if you're listening to this and you're going, all right,

great chip, that's really idealistic. But I started my business because we had to survive. We had to pay the bills. It wasn't because it was an extension of who I am. You know, our purpose is, well, we sell things to customers and we make things. And hopefully there's enough money left over that my wife and I can pay the mortgage, have vacation and you know it's kind of it starts with survival almost like a maslow's like I'm not thinking about who am I and then how to when I'm starting my business okay that that then informs what I do and then that's going to I know that ultimately we're only successful and sustainable when we have it in that order how do you go from our purposes we just did this to start paying the bills and to

survive yeah and I don't even know who I am I got a team I'm supposed to be leading yeah I might have some passion I'm not sure but chip I how do I figure out who I am and what if it's not who I'm supposed to be to lead this thing? Yeah, so it's kind of like two directions. The first one is that if you're 20-something and you face that you're made right, or you don't even have to face it, you're made right, you're 20-something, and it's like you need to get a job. You've got to go to work. I mean, like college is over, playtime's over, adolescence is sort of over.

It's like, it's time. And either you're going to make it or you're not. At least you've got to go look like you're making. You know, you've got to make money. you've got to pay your bills, or that other thing happens that we don't want to happen. And everybody who's listening, almost all of those guys said, I've got to go do it. And that other thing didn't happen. They didn't slip into the hole of homelessness or whatever.

So survival in some ways is more than it's like, I want to make it. It's not just I want to eat. I want to make it. So plus eat and plus go on vacation, okay? But I remember my 20s. I had this burning question that was basically like, do I have what it takes? Yes. Can I make it work?

Yes. and you will find out by going and doing and seeing. But the leader that we're talking about is somebody who has, dares to start formulating, what am I looking for, which is the beginning of dreaming? What do I want? What am I looking for? What would I like to have my becoming do?

What would I like to create or shape or make, right? So the dreaming for a leader becomes thinking about it, while they may have a job, while they're paying the bills, while they're, you know, and that thing that they're paying the bills with may become their career. But first thing you do is get a job before you have a career. First thing you do is go to work and get experience before the passion starts to bloom. But in your 20s, you're asking those questions, you know, like, you know, what do I want to be when I grow up kind of thing.

But then you dream, like you may talk to your spouse about it, vice versa, your friends, or you may sort of struggle with sort of like getting down in the dumps. I'm never going to get this done. I'm not going to make it. The 20s are a time. If you're really a leader, you're struggling. It's a time of a lot of questions. And so that dreaming becomes thinking about stuff, the thinking about stuff sooner or later becomes taking the risk of stepping off and doing it. Like, for example, like my 20s, I worked construction after college, I got a master's degree in English.

I mean, went from construction. That's a contrast. Exactly. Because I'm going to, I'm going to, I don't know what I'm going to do. In some ways, though, I thought, well, I'm going to be a novelist. I'm going to go do a lot of experiences, and then I'm going to, and it kind of drew a blank. But the thing was, it had to keep doing. You got to keep doing.

After my master's degree, some things happened in my family of origin and so on. It's like, well, every time I pictured, you know, I was going to get a PhD in English, you know, be a professor, which would have been a waste of my life. But in my case, not that that's a bad thing. But because I had the entrepreneur of spirit and vision, and I wanted something different. I wanted something that left a lot of fingerprints behind. a lot of impact. But anyway, I pictured students walking in my office and me talking to the student. I wasn't teaching in my mind.

I was being with a person's life. And I asked somebody, what is that? They said, that's counseling. That's therapy. I'm like, oh, I didn't realize the time I needed it desperately, okay? But at the time I was going to help people, not realizing how much help I needed. But my point is I ended up getting a doctorate and counseling. Now, at this point, I'm 30.

But I'm working, making money. you know, we're surviving, we're married couple. We've got a first child. I've finished up to Ph.D. So I'm 30 going, my brother already owns two houses and is a pilot for a large airline, and I'm like renting. Just getting started. Yeah. Okay, I got to stop you right here because all of our listeners just went, oh, I see what you did.

You brought on a shrink. We just figured out who this guy is. I'm about to change my podcast to another, something else, because I'm not sure about this all counseling space. Before you hang up on me, I'm a business man. I mean, so I'm about to tell you, I started a business, and it lasted for 22 years. So what do business leaders need to understand about this, the space that there's stigmas around it, right? Yeah. Shrink, counselor, you've got to be really broken and have your life screwed up to darken the door of a counselor. You know, I don't believe that. I've experienced other things.

Oh, yeah. Disarm people a little bit who may be a little nervous about this idea of getting help in the space. We're living in a time that, in spite of everything negative going on in terms of what we can talk about. We're living in a time of significant willingness to seek out assistance, to ask for help, because we're awakened to the coaches, mentors, like I'm chipdod.com now. I'm mentor, consultant, counselor, right? Because I'm about advancing wellness. I'm about giving away what I've gotten.

And so, you know, you see coaches networks everywhere, leadership teams, leadership podcasts, all of those are forms of helping. All of those are forms of counsel. And wise is the person who seeks counsel, who assesses how they're going to build something and the foundation it's built on before they start. So anyone who is still living in the illusion of pulling yourself up by your bootstraps is really going to catch themselves eventually in the five pitfalls of leadership that we may end up talking about today. But I mean, either you become wise and seek assistance, ask, seek, knock, so you can grow and do better. and you can avoid some of the mistakes other people have made, that's wise. Versus going and doing it on your own to prove something to somebody who's already gone.

So seeking help is like one of the first steps of wisdom. In fact, it's how you're born. We're not created to leave how we're born. That may be off business topic, but it still matters. So I want to get into this idea of how as leaders, these heart things, these feelings, these squishy, oh, those don't feel like business terms. But I want to set the stage on this because in my own journey, I was feeling a little bit stuck as a leader. And I reached out to somebody kind of like you. And I said, hey, I don't need counseling.

Okay? I don't need counseling. I'm good. But I'd love to get maybe some, you know, with a wink, business coaching. Let's call it business coaching. I'll come in for that. And man, little did I know. I mean, this is several years ago.

And it starts this journey. And this guy's great. He said, okay, we can do business coaching. And then a few months in, he's going, okay, well, here's your problem. How do you feel about that? So, no, I'm not here to talk about my feelings. I'm here to, you need to help me on this problem. And then we'd laugh about it.

And then a month later, I'd come in, and there'd be this big problem. He'd go, well, okay, how do you feel about that? Why is it cute? I told you, we're not talking about my feelings. You know, I just had all this resistance. I was afraid to talk about feelings, which is a feeling, right? It's fear. And I go down this path, and eventually we're talking about these eight core feelings

and how they send me messages, and I'm starting to know my story and learn about myself in ways. I'm going, oh, my gosh. The rest of me. I wish I knew what this space was. My family of origin, where I grew up, there was a, it wasn't talked about. It wasn't something that we did. And I made up stories in my mind about when you go sit down with somebody to get help in this space, you know, you must be really broken or you must be really dysfunctional. And in my own experience, I've learned, like, I have this whole new language about how I can identify what's going on in my heart.

And then out of that becomes this is who I am, is how I lead. Yes. And it impacts my team. The council actually creates a carpenter. In other words, if you just take what you've got, you've got a hammer, so the whole world has to be a nail. But if you go sit down and gain skills with tools, you can do a drill, a hammer, a saw. You can do a level. In other words, you can build something with more capacity and competence than you could when you were making sure you didn't have to ask for help.

Because asking for help automatically brings up feelings immediately. Fear. In fact, the moment a businessman envisions something. And it doesn't matter. It can be cakes, cookies, or it can be, you know, doing the work of Christ. The moment they envision something, they have a hope. And the moment you hope, right? It's like it's the eternal flame within us, whether we like it or not.

The moment a person hopes they're afraid because you're wishing for something you don't have, something not realized, something not gained. So it's fear. And fear, God has given us fear to allow us to ask for help because we recognize. recognized need. I mean, this is like basic, like a kindergartner knows this. And somehow when we hit 20-something, we forget how God made us. That's insanity. I mean, it's really not good. Well, I think in our culture, when we hear things like fear, it comes off as weakness, or you shouldn't have those feelings if you're really a strong leader. Never put me in an airplane,

a jet with a fearless pilot, because fearless people don't consider the checklist. They don't look at, is there fuel in the tank, or the wings, or the flappers good working? you know, do we have enough of this and enough of that? So a fearful pilot is somebody who respects reality and assesses where they're going. They consider consequences. They practice for results. Like I anticipated before I got here today, what's this going to be like? What are we going to talk about?

So I'm most mentally preparing, based upon all my experience, that's called fear, preparation. And so people are afraid to hope well because they have to face fear. And were they afraid of? Fear of failure, fear of getting hurt, fear of looking stupid. All of those things are dealing with feelings. In other words, behind the scenes or behind the ego or behind face. So a leader who's self-aware and they realize they're feeling fear does what with it? I mean, what's the utility? When I noticed that I feel afraid as a leader, what should I be doing? Great advertising moment for me. We've got... I'm a businessman. Come on. The book, The Voice of the Heart. Yes, great book. It really, listen, I'm telling you, this book, I feel so grateful that I got to write it.

And I feel like I got to do it, that I was a servant. Because this book has been around a long time, and it is profoundly realistic for our time. And it just talks about the eight core feelings, like the primary colors. You know, you have to know the primary colors to be an artist. If you know the basic musical notes, you can write a symphony. Well, if you know the basic eight tools of emotions, energy in motion, it is actually a form of strength. But even going to fear, fear is not a weakness.

Fear is a gift from God. And so fear is a feeling that tells us we're in need or in danger, that without something I cannot succeed. And so fear is a feeling that allows us to cry out if we're in danger or to ask for help or to get prepared. I mean, in the movies Spartacus or We Were Soldiers or, We were soldiers as a great example. Because they knew they were preparing for battle, they spent a great deal of time training.

And they were training because they were afraid. So fear prepares a person for battle. It gets them to ask for help, practice results, assess consequences, you know, get ready, gain the skills. That's fear. Really, it serves you. Yes. It's a tool in your toolbox. It's a tool.

See, feelings aren't weaknesses. They're tools. I mean, everybody, like somehow or another, we've gotten the idea that feelings are about just sitting around and emoting. Feelings are tools that take you somewhere. I don't like them. I don't like the eight feelings, but I love what they do. Because fear takes you to faith, and faith takes you to wisdom. And fear prepares you for battle.

In other words, it prepares you to step off onto the bridge. It prepares you to take risk, and anger slash passion takes you to whatever it is wherever you're headed. You keep saying the eight feelings, we're going to have to say the other seven. So we got anger, gladness, sadness. And I know you don't want to get off on that book, but. No, it's a great book. I think it's helpful to understand essentially there are eight core feelings. You go, no, they're not.

There's thousands. But there's all these things we call feelings are an expression of these. So like frustration is an expression of anger or even fear. Or fear. Yeah. So we have fear. We have sadness. We have loneliness.

We have hurt. We have anger. It's often mistaken for rage. We have healthy shame, which is the humility of being human, guilt, and gladness. and if anybody's really listening to eight, like, Mr. You just name seven bad things. So we end up labeling these things. That was the first time I saw that list.

I thought there's only one good feeling here, Chip. You've got to balance this out, man. What's amazing is somebody may get this out there, but very few people can handle gladness without disrupting it. But, I mean, these eight feelings are all tools that lead to good things. They're gifts. But the eight feelings are the realities of life. We don't live in a perfect place.

We live in a tragic place. God has given us eight tools to allow us to build an extraordinarily resilient life in a tragic place. So the feelings are tools that let us live fully in a tragic place. So take us through, we talked about what the value of fear causes us, if we're paying attention to it, to plan, to prepare, to get ready for something. I'd love to hear kind of the sound bite on each of these. So for anger, for example. Yeah, like, let's get to anger in just a bit because anger for example is like, okay, we'll do anger. Well, let's do sadness.

Let's build up to it. Because it's so confusing for people, Christians, and then a lot of people in their upbringing associate anger with what it isn't. It's called rage. But sadness is a feeling that allows you to show the pain you have when you lose something that matters to you. Sadness is a feeling we have that allows us to care.

When I lose what matters, I have sadness. I have grief. So sadness, life's going to happen. If you care about life, the more you care about life, in some ways, the more you're going to lose. Less you care, the less you lose. Less sad you are, but less you care. You miss life.

Loneliness is a feeling that tells us we're made for relationship. It's a beautiful feeling. We're lonely for ourselves, others, and God. And then we're lonely to create. Hurt is a feeling that tells us we've experienced the wound. And unless we have the healing, we're going to be defensive. So Hurt is a feeling that says, I've got a wound, and I need to get with somebody who knows what hurt is like to experience the healing.

So Hurt is a feeling that brings us. us to healing. Loneliness is a feeling that brings us to intimacy. Sadness is a feeling that brings us to acceptance. Life isn't okay, but I'm going to live it anyway. Fear is a feeling that brings us to trust, hope, risking, caring, in spite of the dangers. So fear is the beginning in some ways of courage. And then anger. Anger is a feeling that is possibly the expression of our greatest vulnerability. I want to do this so much. I don't care what people think of me. me are going to say about me. It's desire and hunger and thirst and wanting and wishing and yearning and longing. It's a deep desire. Yeah, you hear that. Even as we talk about that,

my hands are reaching towards, I want this badly. My muscles are even tensing. That's passion. The gift of anger is passion. People who are afraid to show how much they care, rage. See, rage is about being terrified of exposing some form of helplessness. So people will murder and kill to avoid being rendered, exposed. But in anger, it's like, I'm willing to make this, shape this, and do this in spite of what can happen. Because I remember I was about to lose my company in 2000. Sonia and I just built a house. Beautiful house.

Her dream house. And I said to her, look, if I stick with this, we may lose our house. And she was the last person I reached out to to say, you know, I was checking everything out because I wanted to keep the company. And at the same time, I knew I could let it go and go do X, easy. I could just reshape myself, but it wasn't the thing. And I remember I said, because I believe God, it said, just stay in it, because I thought God started in the first place. So I said, we're probably going to lose our house. And she said, it's just a house. I'm like, okay. And then I stayed in it. I mean, we went down. And within five months, skyrocketed back. Amazing. It's like,

that was anger and fear and heart. hope, but I was processing through all the feelings while I was also working on making good head decisions and head and heart combines called integration or integrity. In other words, everything's on the playing field or everything's on the battlefield or everything's on the table. Like, I'm all in. And that's where we get the word courage. Courage means full heart of participation. So basically, instead of your heart being a weak thing, your heart is the beginning of the ultimate strength. I mean, it's, and it's biblical for the Christian audience out there. I mean, it's like man looks at appearances, but God looks at the heart and guard your heart with all

diligence. It's the wellspring of life. What is the, you talked about anger and rage being different. I think our typical understanding of when we hear anger, we think somebody who's raging or being inappropriate and how they're treating people as a result of being, they're so angry. And oftentimes we're saying, well, they're yelling at people or cussing at people or throwing the wall. What is a healthy experience? of anger. Like, I used to tell the guys I started and ran a treatment center, it's called the Center for Professional Excellence for 20-something years before I sold it. And I used to tell the guys, these were doctors and athletes and pastors. I said, you don't ever want me to walk in the door

here to work with you unless I come in angry. Because if I'm not yearning and desiring and longing and hoping related to what I'm doing with you, then I'm not here. You don't ever want to see me if I'm not angry. Now, because of our histories, we associate that statement with, oh gosh, this guy's dangerous, he's going to harm me. No, I'm saying I'm all here.

And if you want to go, and I know you're in need of going, I want to help get you there. It was leadership. But also I was putting myself into position, Daniel, of looking stupid. You know, I said,

look, you don't want me to come in because I'm going to tell you the truth. I'm going to walk with you. I'm going to exemplify, exhort, encourage, teach, show, walk like I'm all in. So angry people are the best leaders. Now I say that then you need to know what you're talking about because it's a person who's willing to expose their hearts and also show and articulate where they want to go. Visionaries. You have to be willing to put yourself out there

knowing people might laugh at you. They may think your vision's crazy. And you're going, this is really what I want. This is my deep desire. I'm going to expose something that you may not think is possible. Yes. And I might feel shame as a result of you not, but it doesn't matter because this is my desire. Yes. And I remember when I started Center for Professional Excellence, it really came out of, in so many ways, dreaming, thinking, doing, but I remember I resigned. I was brought from Texas. I was in Texas and I came to Nashville to start Impaired Professionals program. And after about eight months of that, I thought, this is missing everything. And I attempted to, you know, help see this, see this, you know, because I knew what they could have. And there was no

interest in it. So I thought, well, I'm called to this other thing. I want to do this other thing because I see the excellent widget, okay? I see what a person can have that the way they've organized things is not going to happen. So I resigned. Now, Sonia says I didn't tell her. I was doing it. To this day, I say, Sonia, I know I talked about it. There's a lot of stories my wife and I have two very different versions of the story. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we need to get her on sometime. Like, okay, Sonja, just, you know, don't tell it all.

But I remember, I said, we'll be up and going. And I'm designing a manual. I thought we'd be up and going in a month. It was four months later. And, you know, I thank God I owned a piece of property. I sold that. You know, that was enough money to get us by. And she still says, but we could have had savings.

I'm like, okay, true, true. But it was like the difference between a great athlete and a good athlete is that the great athlete sees nothing but the ball. A good athletes wondering what people are thinking in the stands. And sometimes you can have a super physically talented good athlete who won't be great. And so I was acting as a great athlete and I was making the mistakes. Chip, you didn't tell me you were going to resign. And I'm designing a manual. I'm working on the picture of what this thing could be. And I was bringing some things that I had taken the risk of developing back in the early 90s called the spiritual

root system to apply to the field of addiction and recovery. And very challenged by others to say you can't do that. They won't work in the world of recovery. It's too soon, too early to push people that much. But I'd already seen what I had been doing in Dallas, and so I'm going to do it anyway. I'm going to apply it and see what happens. We're going to do it. And then, you know, honestly, the rest of the story is 20-something years later, 85% success rate, thousands. of men walked across basically the badlands from where they were to where they were called to go. And then they've turned around and influenced thousands and thousands and thousands of others based upon one angry man. Yeah.

One desirous man who really wanted to help create a good widget. Yeah. So anger. Anger's not bad. That's beautiful. Yeah. We did fear, anger. We talked about loneliness.

Loneliness and hurt. Hurt. Healthy shame is the neediness feeling. It's the feeling of how we're created. It's that I need you and you need me. This is the grown-up version. It's that I'm not God and you aren't either. We both need God, so we're created the same.

It's that I make mistakes and so do you. We're all works in progress. And I don't have all the answers, but I have some. Now, what's amazing is healthy shame is an admission of being deficient alone. We're not created to be alone. We're created to be in relationship, to find the fullest fulfillment through relationship.

ship. So I say, you know what? This is kind of a weird example, but I've got some wood and you got a match. Well, then we got a fire. So-and-so has a pot. They've got peas. Somebody has carrots, potatoes, beef. Somebody has some water. And who's got a spoon? Yeah, we all come together. We can eat. I'm telling you. And I don't, I'm not talking communism, socialism. I'm talking about creativity and I'm talking about production. I'm talking about sharing the answers. We can, like, build more. You make bricks, you make wood, I'm making steel, let's pay for it with each other and build something great. So the feeling of shame is really a feeling of dependence. I think a lot of the times we hear that word is like I did something wrong or we confuse shame and guilt sometimes. We confuse healthy shame with toxic shame because being needy, which sounds very strange, being needy is a key that unlocks the treasure trove of everything we're made to have. Like if I can say, hey, you know what, Daniel, I'm really struggling with knowing how. to do this thing, this certain business technique. In fact, my gift set has really is not operational. It's all envision and creating like the artist. But I know that you are strong in operations,

systems, COO type material. So listen, here's my plan. Here's my dream. Like, how do you see shaping this? How do we build the levee so this water can run? So that neediness actually brings you, Look, I'm calling to see if you have this thing or you're interested in it. Then you and I join forces. It's like it pulls us together. It's a magnet. Absolutely. So that's healthy shame.

I love that. It's humility. Toxic shame is contempt towards myself for having needs, for being human. So it's actually self-hatred. At least the depression, being down on yourself. It leads to absolute dog attack. A shooting on yourself, criticizing yourself, slapping yourself around for not being more than human. And to see, we grow through mistakes. Life is practice. We're works in

progress. The better we are at making mistakes to turn around and advance improvement related to them, the better we are at really growing, improving, and strengthening ourselves. Okay, I want you to drill on this because I've talked with thousands of small business owners. You have to, who don't feel like they have the permission or ability to make those mistakes without losing their credibility as a leader. Yeah. I have to have all the answers or my team's going to leave me. Is the lie we tell ourselves. Yes, it is.

Absolutely the lie we tell ourselves. Now, I believe that leaders need to divide themselves appropriately into two camps. For example, there's a book, I think it's called Quiet Desperation. This person did it. This is years ago, because I'm old. And what she found is that the great leaders, these corporate executives, founders of companies, they experienced a tremendous amount of loneliness and isolation because they were dreamers and creators

who had a lot of technical participants around them, in other words, managers who weren't visionaries. So whenever they wanted the managers and accountants to do something, they had to come up with some technical reason, even though they came to this vision or idea in a dream. They were lying in bed, woke up and I say, hey, I think I'm going to do so and so. I can't tell them that way because nobody's going to listen because creativity, vision, I had it in the dream.

It's like that's not relevant. Okay. So to the specialist, they have to have like a direction and a proof. They don't join the dream. They join what the person needs. So a leader has to, you know, go ahead and be clear with, you know, this is what I'm looking for, which is hard because that means they're going to be lonely. So a leader has to know they're going to be lonely with the people. who are managing their dream, all right?

So then that leader also needs to be able to go to other leaders who would dare, and this is the scary part. Most leaders don't do this with each other because of pride and shame and depressing their identities and workaholism. They don't have time to take time to talk about what it's like to lead. But leaders need to get with other leaders to be able to share the healthy shame of living lonely of not being understood or what it takes to take a risk that other people around them are scared of them because they thought it was unpredictable when actually they're just creating or something

I want you to speak to leaders right now who maybe maybe they're lonely and they don't realize it I know I was there for a season where I was coming to work every day and if you said are you lonely no I'm around people all the time we laugh we cut up we're having a good time and the truth is I was all alone in the middle of a crowd yeah I was desperately lonely, but I didn't even know how to assess myself as such. What are some of the signs or the cues that I should be thinking about? If I'm listening to this going, I'm probably not lonely. I work with people all the time. I'm outgoing. Yeah. I'm having great life. Things are going beautifully. And you may be the rich young ruler at this time. Rich, rich means like insulated,

right? Young means invincible. And ruler means authority, which you can have pride in. So you You may be doing great, and so everything may be going wonderfully. But somewhere along the line, life's going to happen. And I mean, your life's happening that way. But see, the full life is lived between 1 and 10, you know, to have 1 to 10 life, all in. So that means grief on one end and celebration on the other. So grief is pain. So anyway, you may be having a great life, but somewhere along the line, life's going to happen,

and you're going to have questions. and most are many leaders that I've worked with because I get to work with leaders as well as having been one. But many leaders carry around a disorder called SID, and it's called Significant Ignorance Disorder. It's not in the counseling manuals, okay? It's something I'm made up. But it means you've practiced ignoring what's happening 18 inches below your forehead. So it's not significant stupidity disorder. It's significant ignorance, ignoring.

So life's going to happen, and what's happening is that you don't have the intellect or willpower or perfection capacity to fix the problem because it's not a fix-it problem. It's an emotional issue. And so what happens is I've seen leaders who get sucked into a vortex over time. 20s are great. 30s are fabulous. 40s, beginning to have an affair. 50s, like the families left them. You know, 60s, they wonder what it was all about.

Or they're living in resentment and rejection, but sitting on a pile of money maybe. And so there are five pitfalls I've seen when a leader doesn't pay attention to the rest of himself, the heart of who he is. Now, this is a strength, not a weakness. The heart is the territory of strength. It is the place of courage. In fact, the French word for heart is courier. It's where we get the word courage. the Latin word for heart is core.

We know those workout guys out there. Your core is everything. The strength of your core is the balance of your body. It's the capacity to move or remain coordinated and competent. But a leader, a person who just is a manager, a full participant, when your work becomes your worth, then you are already in the process of you're going to have trouble. In fact, when your work becomes your worth, you believe that you're only valuable or cared about based upon your production,

which means you're already lonely. You're already believing if I have a need, I'll be rejected, or if I show a weakness, which means fear or if I have an off day, if I don't perform. Yeah, if I need a day off to go to a funeral, then I won't be respected, you know. And I don't know some people lose their companies

over their inability to sort of get out of the ditch and run things because they were afraid if it got out of the ditch, the other workers would think they didn't care or they weren't willing to clean the bathroom or they weren't being an example and said they didn't lead. So when your work becomes your worth, there's a danger sign. Then if you don't get out of it there and start attending to your worth more than what you do, in other words, you have value at home with friends and mission

beyond work, then if you don't know you have value beyond that, then you try to find your value through performance. And then performance becomes more important than your presence. So, pro athletes, they go home after the season, and the kids call them Daddy. And they're like, who's Daddy? My name is 69 or my name is 71 or I am known with the legendary name. I'm the home run hitter. And they don't like the name Daddy. They associate themselves with the word perform. So perform matters more than who God made you and what others need from you who just want you to be you. They're just looking for you. And most spouses, wives, husbands, they're not looking for money, they're looking for you.

And they want you to do the money, but come home. Yeah. Because that's what the money's for. So how do I go from, if I'm in this performance addiction cycle, and I've been there, practically, how do I get from there to being present with my family? Yes, and that is beginning to identify with just yourself, not identify with your family, but identify with yourself. What's scary about going home?

You have to go from the head to the heart and start using your head to ask questions of your heart. What's scary about going home? What is our fear is going to happen when I'm on vacation? What a fear is going to happen when I turn off my phone and just kind of hang out, play puzzles with the kids? So it's usually fear of being judged or fear of losing control or fear of something getting out of hand. For me, it's being bored. Yeah, which is... I go home.

I'm at work. I'm cranking. I'm knocking down goals. I'm connecting with people. Good meeting, good meeting. High five. I go home. the downshifting into we're going to sit here and eat dinner.

Yes. And we're going to talk about our days. Yeah. You know, and as much as I love my kids, you know, there's times. It's just boring. It's just, I delight in my children. Absolutely. But as somebody that's addicted to this dopamine hit of every meeting, it's just a rush,

and there's a challenge, and we're breaking stuff and fixing it. It's different at home. And I don't want to separate men from women here, but I'm telling you, men, we love getting stuff done. and I love I love making it happen. I love getting stuff done. I love the sweat to see if it can happen. I want to see if I can do it.

And even now I'm scared, I don't know if I can do it or not, but I just want to go find out. And families love a dad who's like that. But they also know they need that dad to come home and know that there's a place to replenish and restore and share. So that boredom is often like loneliness.

Like, wait, I'm made for, But getting it done, no, you're also made to be able to rest and restore and replenish so you can go back and do it some more. So a lot of times we'll associate either or or we'll go home and think like, I mean, I'm not like, what's this about? I'm not doing anything. Well, that means a lot of times we can get addicted to the doing. And then when, like a lot of guys who are really superworkers, they can't stand vacation. Like it's three days to wind down, one day and a half to have a good time. Two days to get back up and getting ready for it again.

That means that's a guy who's addicted to work, who's really addicted to control, who mood alters over being in control of something so they don't have to feel because they're practicing doing everything they can to remain ignorant. Wow. Because they don't dare end up saying, do you just love me for me? I know it sounds weird to your audience perhaps, but like they don't stop. And I actually say, do you love me for me? Now, a lot of men, too, will go home and home is another workplace.

In other words, that man doesn't know where to stop and get for himself. Do you know? Like home needs to also be a place like where you're getting something to, not just giving something. And that's where I think, and I'm concentrating on men here because I've been working with men for 30-something years. So I tend to, you know, go to the extreme. But men need other men desperately. Men need to restore each other with other men, telling the truth about what it's like to be one so that you have something in that replenishment with each other to go home and offer.

Then you go home and be with your kids. You know, the question, do you love me for me? Do you like me for who? Am I enough? You know, we've been talking about this the whole time. I think as leaders, we have to get to a place where our security is strong enough and who we are and God and our creator that we know that we are enough independent of other approval and performance and applause.

But as leaders, how do we convey to our team that we see them as you're enough? And it's not all about your performance. And at the same time, the nature of an organization is we need performance. We need utility. We've got goals that we've got to hit. We hired you to do the work. Yet, I want you to know that I see you independent of your work as a person who I care about and I love. That's a great question.

And a healthy organization is not a family. A healthy organization is a mission-minded focus. Okay. We're not here so that we can like, you know, get all, you know, attached and have reunions. We're here to get this extraordinary possibility completed. And we're doing this so you can, after the mission's done for the day, you go home to your family. So you don't go to work to find a family. You go to work to have a family.

So what's the day? Because I think a lot of people take pride in like, we're like a family. It's like a family around here. Yeah, I hear that a lot. It scares me every time I hear it because either they don't really need. know what they're saying or they're saying something that's going to lead to a dysfunction sickness you know it's like uh yeah i'm not here to be your daddy i am here however to be an appropriate authority okay and see we live in a society that doesn't understand that there are two

kinds of authority there's the authority that most of us assume is what work is like it's a thumb on the neck of somebody i do i told you to do it so now it's to be done like now but see that's an authority that makes people perform based on threat. There's another kind of authority that you're describing, like I care about the people who are doing the jobs. You're saying appropriate authority is that I desire your good. So a leader communicates, I desire your good, all right? So I would come to you and I say, look, here's your job description.

And what problems do you have related to this job? What skills do you see yourself having related to these things? You have this, this, and this. And then the person says, well, I don't know how to do so-and-so. Okay, well, what's that like? You know, well, you're scared. It's probably scary to you. But I want you to know, I'm going to give you time to be able to learn it.

We'll get going in this skill, and you'll grow in it, all right? So appropriate authority says, I desire you're good. I want you to grow. I want you to develop to the point that you're giving everything you've got to this mission. So an appropriate authority, a healthy authority, desire you. is the good, which means they're asking them, where are you with this assignment? What are you feeling? What are you thinking? What's your attitude towards it? Or you hold anything back related to me. I need you to be willing to talk about the fragility, the vulnerability, and the strengths,

and what's good about what you know you can do. It's not just your competent. Don't have that either, but bring yourself to it. And if you end up not being able to do it, either we will find a better position for you or we will let you go. Especially in Tennessee, it works out beautifully because it's a free work state. Employment at Will State. You know, I've had this moment and you're describing a conversation where you're working with someone on your team and you're trying to get in sync on here's what success looks like and are you ready to go do this now? Do you have what it takes? I've had times when I've delegated something and I can tell the person on the other end of this task who's receiving this project I'm handing them.

I know they don't feel equipped to do it, just the body language or what they're not saying. But I can also tell they don't feel safe to admit that. How do I create a safe, like, hey, it's okay if you, well, it doesn't mean you're fired if you tell me that you can't do it. But I need to know that so we can get you the training or partner you with somebody who's good at it so you can shadow them the first time around. What can we do as leaders to go what is really countercultural? Because a lot of organizations, it's not safe to say that. Yes. You got to think it to make it.

They'll tell you it is when it really isn't. That's right. As soon as you show weakness, that might be the end. But our listening audience, I mean, we value, one of our core values is we care about the people. You know, so we're not going to act somebody if they have a deficit. Yet it's so countercultural or what people perceive to be the right thing if you're a good employee. You just say, yes, I can do it. And you think later like, oh, my gosh, what I just signed up for?

I don't know. But I'm going to have to fake it until I figure it out. But that's not helpful. No. I'm going to have to fake it until I figure it out. is family of origin stuff. See, that's how come I think is important for a company, a business, not to become a family, because if it's a family, then you're bringing all your junk that was unfinished from where you

came from. If it's a mission, it's a new training ground. So with the person you're describing, it's like, hey, you look like you just had a deer in the headlights thing going on in your brain. And so you're scared of doing this. You ask. And then by asking and they say, no, not at all. And you go, you sure.

I want you to know I'm a place you can come to to learn because I want us to have a culture that cultivates abilities. And if you're not a work in progress around here, then you're probably not going to work out. So your need for help, gaining strength is going to be something that's real impressive to me because they want your approval. Every player on every good sports team, man, I'm telling you, especially in your high school, even college, you don't. play for the yourself, you play for the coach. And so a coach that says, hey, you go do your thing

and when it's over, I'll be right here. Now, you may not be playing the next play, but I'm going to be here. And I want good for you. We're going to keep on working on it because I believe in you.

So you communicate believing in people. You communicate what the mission is. You communicate, I need you to make mistakes. Okay, it's going to be part of it. I'm going to make them. You're going to make them. And then you prove that it's okay

to do. it, but at the same time, expectations is zero mistakes because it's about getting the mission done. So we're after something we know in many ways we're going to get close to it. So you're teaching, you're exemplifying, communicating, and leading a culture that deals in reality, but your best hope is for the heart of the development of that person. In fact, I think the healthiest organizational structure is that where the leader is communicating this, I'm here to help you leave.

Because if you're not called to stay, I want to make sure you're developed to the point that you never make another lateral move, that every move you make from here on is up. So I want you know I'm a healthy authority that's out after you're good. And if you're called to this mission, man, be in it with us. But I want 100% all in. And if you're not, then you go be 100% somewhere else. Especially in small business that can work. Oh, yeah.

You know, I've found that one of the best ways to make sure my team feels like it's safe for them to talk about their heart is for me to talk about mine. Yes. And I mean, it's kind of like, duh, leaders model what they, the behavior, they exemplify. They want to see it from the team. And do so about what's appropriate. Do so about related to the work. Right. You're not talking about your children.

Yeah. No, but I mean, if we've got a big obstacle and I come in and go, all right, guys, we got this. I'm not afraid. If you're not afraid, obviously, right? We're going to go versus going, you know, hey, I feel a little fear, but you know what else I know? Every time I felt that before and we had a big obstacle, you guys have proved that we have what it takes. We'll figure it out. You know, it's just acknowledging.

I don't have it all figured out. We're in this together, and we have a track record of figuring it out even when we feel some fear. Yeah, and we live in a culture. That's what we were talking about earlier, Daniel, was that we live in this incredible opportunity culture right now that has all, I want to touch base on the negative, but we live in this culture. culture that a guy like you can show up and tell the whole truth that, yeah, I'm scared, of course. And yet, you know what? I'm getting prepared to go do this thing.

And we know we have a history that says, you know, we've done this before so we can do it again. And even though I'm scared, I'm all in. So I'm going. So let's suit up and let's go. Yeah. But we also live in a culture now that now that we have permission to feel, you know, This is where the whole feeling thing gets a really bad name because we came from a sort of a stoic culture where feelings were stuffed, say, 40, 50 years ago. Now we live in a culture where it appears that there are feelings everywhere, but they aren't feelings, the reactions.

Because we live in a culture now that's doing this, and employees are doing this too. I've got a feeling, you've got a problem. Instead of I've got a feeling and will you help me with the struggle. I've got a feeling where you'll assist me. But now we live in a culture that is demanding understanding and demanding that employers be pills. Like, I've got a feeling, you've got a problem. I need a vacation or I'm quitting. Like, what's going on around here?

In other words, it's entitled. It's entitled, which is my feelings are actually, I'll do anything to avoid having to feel, having to struggle or having to strain, having to deal with the sadness of really frankly skipping a planned holiday because the mission matters more than right now the holiday. Do you know, work ethic is being sacrificed in the name of feelings when actually it's not feelings. Feelings bring us to working harder. Feelings bring us to working smarter.

Feelings will bring us to joining up with each other in loyalty. Feelings will actually bring us to doing whatever it takes to finish the job. I mean, wow. I mean, heart plus head. The person who works with her hands is a laborer. a person who works with her hands and her heart is a craftsman. A person who works with their hands, their head, and their heart is an artist, which means a creator, which means a passion,

which means willingness to be in paint, which means how are we going to get this done, which means, you know, World War II is amazing because the lower ranks brought their ingenuity in, invited to bring their ingenuity in to what was going on. I mean, the hedgerows, they couldn't get through the hedgerows. So one of these welders, a private, said, well, if we welded a point at the front of the tank, we could push through the hedge

row and get the tanks through. He was bringing it all, artist, a warrior, artist, all in. Wow, I love that. Well, those are the kind of cultures we want to create because that's how you know you've got a team that's going to help you accomplish a big purpose. So we were talking about these emotions, and earlier before that, you talked about the five pitfalls for leaders. I think it's worth us walking through those because we can get going so hard.

things can be going really well, and then you look up and all of a sudden you're in the ditch. You go, how did I get here? And I think sometimes we just need to know what are the guardrails we should be bumping into before we fly into a ditch. So when you can catch yourself, when performance becomes matters more than your presence, then you become like focused on, I'm only as good as my last performance, which means anxiety is controlling your actions. Now at the same time, I've got a son that says, Dad, was in law school, he did great. moot court, all these things, he said, I realize that I'm a performer. And what he was talking about, I've always associated being a performer as a negative thing, but actually I'm good at it.

You put me on the spot, I can go. So performing's great. It's not an either or, but if you're only worth as much as your last performance and who you are and what you're about and what matters to you most, being able to go to the water fountain of relationship and drink deeply, if you have to earn it, then you're already losing contact with a person who's made to need. What happens next to once you become a performer, I'm only as good as my last performance,

and Janice Joplin is a great story of losing contact with herself. Then the third thing that happens is that people become objects. People become problems instead of humans. And we start adjusting ourselves to handling people as problems instead of people being relationships. And then once that happens, because we're created for relationship, we become secret keepers. We found a self-cure.

We find something out there that's going to make me feel alive besides being in relationship related to this mission or at home or with friends. And secrets are anything that we do that makes us feel better that we can't tell anybody because I'm afraid if I let somebody know they'll reject me or criticize me or try to stop me, that's alcohol, drugs, porn, gambling, stock market, and bad. investing money, fantasizing, all these distractions from being truthful. And then finally, after you're a secret keeper, you're an unknown quantity, and we're created for a relationship.

So at that point, you become isolated. And what's so tragic is that Jeremiah 17, 5, and 6 says beautifully, isolated, cursed, not condemned, but cursed, isolated is the person who depends upon their own strength, who trust in their own flesh, their best thinking, their best ideas, whose heart has gone away from God, or meaning gone away from how they're created, because we're creative to find fulfillment in relationship and creating. It says, this person will be like a bush in the wastelands.

And then this key phrase, even when prosperity comes, they won't see it. Even when they've succeeded, even when they've had a great work day, it doesn't touch their hearts. Yeah. because they're removed from the original spot. Your worth was inborn, and you just express it through your work.

You don't work to find your worth. So somewhere along the line, most of us wind up. What happens is we're born with an inherent worth. And along the line, self-esteem takes over because somebody told us that how you're created wasn't just right. So then you start trying to prove yourself to get loved instead of knowing that by you being yourself, you are loved. So if I'm in one of these stages, these five stages of cascading down away from who I am,

practically how do I get rooted back into my true identity where I can say, I'm enough because of who I am? And it's not my performance and approval and all these other things. The only way that can happen is the thing with the beginning of this conversation is what we avoid asking for help. because we catch ourselves. We know. We know that we're anxious. We know that we're kind of miserable. We know that we're having thoughts about wanting to sell the company and get it old.

We know that we're wishing we could go to the Bahamas. We know when we're looking at some other person as maybe the solution, you know, when we want to escape from like, why do we have to have all these kids in the first place? Or whatever. Or when church is a dead thing or you're not picking up your Bible anymore. It's a burnout because you're worn out. You're worn out. because you're not getting replenished.

You're not getting replenished because you're remaining ignorant or you're not facing your needs. Ask for help. But from whom? Only someone who knows they've needed it to. Don't go to advisors who have all the answers. Go to counsel with people

who have fallen from the ladder, who have known the struggle, who have you've heard, have lost their answers, but refound them, you know, go to people who are capable of struggle. They're the brave ones. So ask for help. Yeah.

And then go to someone who will help you find yourself instead of recreate yourself. Find someone who will help you find yourself rather than recreate yourself. See, because stress management is an engineering term. Stress is pressure on an object. The stress point is, is when the object can't tolerate the pressure. In the engineering world, we increase tensile strength, or we try to spread it out so that it can tolerate more.

But in the human being world, a human being does stress through feelings because stress to a human being is life happening like I don't want it to. So it's a feeling response. Like, I don't like this. What I'm going to do to change it? Or this is scary. Or, man, I'm getting lonely. That's called a stress response.

So in the world of staying healthy, you've got to let stress become an expression, not a greater strength. So you don't recreate a stronger person. You find a person and let that person become expanded more into relationship, which strengthens them. I believe in lingering its intent of God in the mornings is a huge time because it says be strong and courageous, because God will never leave you nor forsake you, being strong and courageous comes from lingering in relationship with God and others. So asking for help, feeling feelings, getting with people who know what those things are

so that you can have more of you to bring to everything in your life. I love that. And I hope our listeners are leaning into this, that everything you're saying, Chip, is the foundation, philosophical foundation for why we have our coaching program, are advisory groups because what we figured out is when you can get 10 to 12 similar business owners on a group every month with a coach to facilitate and check in and say, okay, how are you doing?

And everyone's going to go, if they're honest, I'm not okay here and I'm not okay here. And I feel scared and I feel angry. And when you get all that out there, you go, oh, everyone else is like me. And now I'm in relationship with them. And they have solutions. They went through a journey where they were struggling and they're in the middle of the fire that I'm in the middle of now. and they can tell me that they got through it and here's how.

Yes. And it gives me hope and we can lean on each other. And, you know, I just feel so sad when I hear about business owners failing because I, almost every time I hear the story, it was preceded by isolation. It was preceded by that loneliness that you talk about. And inherently, to be a business owner is you are isolated. Yeah, and that isolation started with those other four things, though. They were wearing out, wearing down.

When the isolations hit, they've already gone. gotten there. And they may have been, they may have started the business in isolation with all these false premises, you know. So I'm sorry, Anna. No, I mean, it's just, I mean, that's why we have the framework is to say, here's a place to lean into this. But what would you tell people, I mean, if they're not ready to do our coaching, I mean, I think ours is great, but I mean, regardless of whether you do the, the entree leadership advisory groups, what is the key to finding the people, you know, you talked about somebody who has been broken, somebody who has needed. help before, how is the first step in reaching out and developing this peer group that's going to be

kind of your band of brothers, if you will? Well, because people are listening to you, I say, honestly, contact you. I mean, I get the idea that all these other places, but I see what you guys are doing is that you're bringing head, skills, functions together with heart, worth it, passion. You're bringing these things together in some extraordinary ways. And so even when y'all have these 10 or 12 together, and this can happen anywhere, but don't go to a coach that doesn't do heart because almost every businessman doesn't come because of a lack of skills.

They come because of a lack of energy placement. Like where do I put this? And how come I'm struggling? And you said they learn how to do these things because sharing their experience, strength, and hope in this group. They learn the how function through the how. of honesty, openness, and willingness. Because in these groups, you're saying,

okay, man, how are you really doing? Like, I'm asking you to do your own how. Be honest, H, open, O, willing, W. So these guys share their hearts, in a multitude of ways, struggling, but like, you know, and then they're open to receive the functional how, the skills. But it starts with, I'm in need. and then when we all need together, it's like, well, looks to me like I'm in a fellowship.

Like others may just like me. And I know this is like a hyper metaphor here, but a fellowship is a ship of fellows. It's a ship. And on a ship, all working together, we get across the ocean. Yeah. Big deal. Through the problems. Everything we're talking about today, this is, when we say you've got to get better as a leader, you know, I mean, we're not saying there's these hard skills.

I mean, sure, you've got to have the hard skills, but at the end of the day, if you're not working on your heart, if you're not working on who you are, your identity, and rooting yourself in a healthy place, everything downstream from your decisions impacts the entire team. Who we are is how we lead. Yes. And that's what we're really talking about. It really is. And this sounds strange to a lot of people at first, but if you're not doing it for you, leading for you, then you're really not doing it for them. Okay, it sounds strange. Wait a minute. You're talking about selfish. A servant leader. No, a servant leader is somebody who's compelled. They're going to do it anyway. They're not doing it for them. They're doing it because they can't help it and it ends up benefiting them. So a leader has to be self-caring. A leader has to be replenished. A leader has to be first needer, first one to need, first learner, first gainer. In other words, they have to be focused on themselves. for the benefit of those who will take it or those who get.

So this idea of being selfish is actually being self-full. I mean, Jesus spent a great deal of time away from the work. All right? And I'm not talking about avoiding work. But Jesus spent a lot of time praying, a lot of time talking to God, a lot of time with his buddies, Peter, James, and John, hanging out, sharing, talking, building them up. And then the rest of time teaching and healing, right?

Jesus made sure that this sounds strange. He took care of himself. Wait a minute, he didn't do such a great job. He went to the cross. But he said for the joy set before him, he did what he did too. For love of us. Well, and it wasn't when he was all caught up. It wasn't when all the people were healed.

You know, I mean, he had boundaries. Yes, once I get this done, I can go rest. Yeah. Exactly. He forced that in every day. Right. Yeah. You know, Chip, a lot of leaders out there have had the hardest year they've ever,

they've ever experienced. They've been through storms, even now listening to this. Many of them are in this storm. In conclusion, what would you say just to encourage the minds and the hearts of these leaders as they are pushing through and fighting for their dreams? Do you know we talked earlier today about that the great life is lifelied between one and ten? And while this is a time when we really do need to be asking for help, the small business is also the business of in a lot of ways being ignored. I mean, if you watch the news, you hear this over here and then corporations over here, but the group that runs the country that has carried the country on its back is business, small business. I mean, I mean, from the, you know, 200 to 10 employees. And so let's not pretend that this is not an extraordinarily discouraging and frightening time, number one. Face it. In other words, this is scary and it's got grief in it.

and if we don't help each other and get help, then, you know, I've heard a guy talking about it. My family could starve. I mean, this is real. So grief and anger appropriately used, asking for help, coalitions of expectation. In other words, hey, Jim, Jane, Johnny, let's get together. We've got to communicate to our representatives to do something different.

Or let's get together and create something different. This is a very real tough time. Also, I think this is an extraordinary time for us to do that which success can often take us away from. It is a time to depend upon who made us, who created us, and depend upon, frankly put, the exceptionalism of America. I mean, I know the Declaration of Independence is really more accurately called the Declaration of Dependence, because it says that, we hold these truths to be self-evident. In other words, we looked within ourselves and we found that we're created a certain way.

And it's evidence by every one of us speaking up and saying what's happening inside of us and what we're hungry for. So we hold these truths to be self-evident that all human beings, all men are created equal. Yeah, we've done it poorly. Welcome to the great freaking tragedy of this life. But all men are created equal endowed by their creator

with certain God of Nature and Nature's God with certain inalienable rights. I mean, this is how we're made. So we need to be depending upon the God that made us and how God made us. We're not defeated. We need to just come back to the tent and beseech and ask and seek. We need to be great at prayer, meditation, and also encouragement. Because together we can make it.

I mean, we've been in worst times. Yes. I mean, this country has been in worst times. But I think that in the past, we were more certain of how we were made and who we were made to be and the God that made us. So these times are a little bit scarier, but it's an incredible opportunity to revive that which has always made us successful. I love it. Well, I hope if you're listening to this, that you will take all of this and begin the conversation with your team. Start having the conversation.

Talk with your spouse about these things. Look at what's going on in your heart. It's okay to look down there, and it's a little bit scary the first time you do it. Or if you've never done it before and you go, I don't know if I want to. Or nothing comes back. I don't have a heart. You do have a heart. You would not be leading

and you would not be doing what you're doing if you didn't. And so the more you get in touch with that, the more integrated you become as a leader, the more you will be on your way to building a peak performing business. So, Chip, thank you for your words today. Folks can learn more about what you're doing

at chipdod.com. Chip Dodd.com and the voice of the heart, also doing a podcast called How to Live podcast. It's How to Live Uncut. It's weekly edited. I love it. Not weekly as in days, but it's not super,

It's not as smooth as you guys. Well, add that one to your feed. And thank you. Thank you, Daniel. I love what you're doing. I'm grateful for what you're doing. And I'm telling you, it's having impact, and I appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks for being here today. Thank you. Well, I got to tell you, the first time that I started learning about this idea of emotions and feelings, and somebody said, you should talk about your feelings. You should talk about your emotions. And if you're feeling scared or angry or upset, and I thought, I don't understand that. You know, like I just didn't grow up understanding that there's this whole other language. We call it heart language.

That if you'll use those labels and identify those feelings, they really are gateways into your soul, into your humanity. And man, if you're not leading from a place of being human, if you're just plastic, robotic, I don't have any feelings. I'm tough. I'm tough. I'm going to make it all happen. I'm tough, tough, tough. You know what? Nobody follows that person. But I thought they did. So I tried to be that person. I tried to be robotic. I try to have my game face on all the time, even when I really didn't know what I was doing as a leader.

All this stuff that Chip's talking about today, the language of the heart, being an emotional being, being okay with our heads and our hearts and hands all being integrated and making it a normal thing to talk about all that stuff with your team. You know, making that a regular conversation. What I figured out is that when you do that, everyone is drawn towards it because they go, oh, you're like me. We're like each other. And when we're like each other, we get a line quicker and we build unity quicker and we realize, hey, we're in the same boat. And if we're in the same boat and we have the same mission, only then do we start rowing the same direction because we're really a team at that point. If the only place you're a team is on the key results areas, the performance scorecards, if we hit our goals or not, if it's only coming from the head, you're going to miss

the entire foundation of what it means to be a team of people, a team who cares for each other and has each other's backs. And I can tell you from experience, I've been through battles. We've been through challenges at Ramsey. As we've built and grown Entree leadership, there's been seasons where I thought, I don't know how we're going to make it. And you know what caused us to get through it? The people. Not a strategic plan, not some brilliant idea, not some kind of insight or a new quick book that we read about how to get through the battle. It was the people. It was the people whose hearts and minds and hands were fully integrated and plugged in because we had relationships and we knew that we could count on each other. And we cheered for each other. We pushed each other.

And together we bonded in a way that caused us to get through that obstacle. And we came out the other side victorious. Guys, that's what you got to do. And if you're not doing that as a leader, if you're not leaning into this stuff, emotional intelligence, heart language, all these things that are a little murky, not so mainstream to talk about in the business world. Guys, you can't ignore the stuff. This is the foundation of what it means to be a great leader. Your personal leadership, you, the leader, you're the problem and you're the solution. And part of being the solution is being healthy as a leader.

Everything rises and falls on leadership. So you've got to take care of this stuff. Dive into it. Go back and listen to this episode. Share it with your team, with your family. dig in on this stuff, and I got to recommend the voice of the heart. That book is fantastic. It's had a profound impact on me and many leaders here at Ramsey Solutions. It's not just a plug for the book. It's something that we have actually read and benefited from greatly. So check that out.

Also, if you're really trying to figure out where to get started in your growth as a leader, you need to dive in and pick up the leadership growth assessment. It's a free assessment from our team, our coaching team put this together, help you get a quick diagnostic on the areas of leadership. that maybe need a little bit of attention that you can shore up a little bit. It's going to give you a scorecard and areas to, you know, just kind of jump in and get some coaching and lessons from our team. Once you take the assessment, it'll say, hey, start here. And it's good to have a trailhead to get started on versus just kind of floating around in the vertigo feelings of, well, I don't even know what I need to work on. You're going to know what you need to work on if you take this assessment.

So it's quick, it's free. All you got to do is text leader growth to 33444. That's Leader Growth to 33444, or you can click on the link in the show notes. Be sure to check that out. It's a great free resource for you and your leadership journey. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of the Entree Leadership podcast. If you did, please give us a five-star review and tell your friends to subscribe. For a chance to win a $25 Amazon gift card, you can review this episode by clicking on the link in the show notes.

Be sure to follow us on social media at Entree Leadership, and you can also follow me at Daniel Tarty. on Instagram. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, and it was edited and mixed by Will Rudder. I'm Daniels Hardy, and on behalf of the entire Entry Leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like Ramsey Call of the Day. Check out our new Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It'll give you a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes.

Listen to the Ramsey Call of the Day, wherever you listen to podcasts.