EntreLeadership - #77: Sally Hogshead—How to Fascinate and Win

Episode Date: August 11, 2014

In a world with an average nine-second attention span, how do you connect with your team, customers and even your family? Best-selling author and world-class branding expert Sally Hogshead says it’s all about fascination. On this podcast, she shows you how to become intensely valuable to others, so the world sees you at your best. http://www.entreleadership.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charismatic, passionate, as integrity, humble, servant, faithful, inspiring, persevering, positive, flexible, driven. This is who we are that call ourselves leaders. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the podcast of leaders by leaders. And four leaders. I'm Ken Coleman. Thrill to have you with us today. Coming up, our feature

conversation is with Sally Hogshead, the New York Times bestselling author of the brand new book How the World Sees You. What an important discussion. And I'm really excited because back in the studio off the road, he's been vacating, he's refreshed, he's recharged, ready for a big fall, and back with us where he belongs in the Entree Leadership Studio. He is our co-host today. Chris Hogan, Chris, welcome back. Well, thank you for having me, my friend. It's good to be back. It's always good to hear your voice of these headphones. Well, I like to hear it. It's good to be back.

Yeah. Yes. So you've been all over the place. Let's talk about a couple highlights. I've been semi-stalking you and your busy schedule. You were recently with a rookie kind of gather. We'll call it rookie camp, if we will, for the Cleveland Browns. And you spoke to these young men. Give us a breakdown of what that experience was like. Well, it was really incredible because they brought me in right before these guys are going to get paid. And so it was an opportunity to really. begin to teach them about money.

How does money work? And how do you take steps to make sure you're successful? And so I had an opportunity to spend like an hour and a half with them, walking them through some tactical things so they can go into it with their eyes wide open and they can take full advantage of this opportunity. Now, our big time, Entry leadership fans may remember, if they read your bio, you played some football back in the day. Smaller college, but you were an All-American.

You weren't messing around. Well, I was on a good team. Yes, you were. But what was it like to be back in that environment? environment. All these years later, now you're success in a whole different industry, but there you are talking to some studs. I mean, these guys are studs. Fighting for their life. They were big boys. But it was incredible to be there in that environment, Ken, because you felt team. Yeah. You know, and I think that's the beauty of sport. It's team. And that's why I encourage leaders to look at their,

their employees, their teammates as a team. And so the more you build that camaraderie, you build that group, then you've got people that are unified. And you're. And you're, you're, you're not. You're Unified people get stuff done. That's right. And so it was incredible to be back there, but it was an honor to also be there to try to educate these young guys. And I love that you mentioned team because our team is super excited about Chris Hogan and what's happening.

You had an enormous opportunity, which you smacked out of the park. It was a basis loaded grand slam on CNBC recently. That's a big deal. Kind of your national media debut and you crushed it. Our team is so proud. Tell us about that. Well, it was a great opportunity. They had set up on the closing bell.

And so I was debating an economist who was trying to say that debt was good. I'm laughing because I just remember your face as this guy started talking. Yes. And so I got an opportunity to come in and obviously speak truth, which debt is not good. And it went very well. We had a great time. They were encouraged by how the segment went and they've asked me to come back. So excited to go back and represent our team again.

All right. So here we are. And the fall is about to be upon us, which means event season for our rain. Ramsey team here. And you're going to be speaking at our entree leadership events. Talk just briefly about what's coming up this fall and why you're excited to be on the stage and what you're going to tell us. Well, anytime you have an opportunity to share the stage with Dave Ramsey, it's a big deal. And so we're going to be going around the country doing the entree one day event. That's where you're going to get to come in and plug in. And for our day, we're going to teach you the tip of the iceberg on this entree leadership stuff. And then we're going to be going to be all over the place. We're going to be in Pittsburgh. We're going to be in Grand Rap. We're going to be in Dayton. I mean, we're traveling. We're going.

Seattle. Seattle. Out to the great northwest. Out on the West Coast. So great opportunity. If you are a leader or an aspiring leader, come out and join us. You'll plug in and you'll find that that day is going to be a very productive time. It's going to be great fun.

And you can join Chris and Dave and Christy Wright at our Entree events. It's going to be an unbelievable lineup. Here's how you do it. Just go to Entreeleadership.com. Entreleadership.com. And we'd love to see you. Now, want to mention, we are. are loving the feedback we're getting from people.

In fact, later in this podcast, Chris is going to answer some of your emails. We're excited about this new segment. And here's how you do it. Just email us podcast at entreleadership.com. Podcast at entreleadership.com. You can also connect and communicate with us on Twitter. At Entree Leadership is the Twitter handle. And my handle at Ken Coleman.

Chris, let's give them your handle real quick. Absolutely. You can follow me on Twitter at Chris Hogan 360. And I'm telling if you want to start your day off and keep the nose to the grind and be encouraged. Chris Hogan 360 at Chris Hogan 360. Great follow there. All right. So it's time for our feature interview, Chris. And as I said at the top of the podcast, Sally Hogshead, excuse me, Hogshead's new book, is How the World Sees You. And this is a great book. It released number one on the Wall Street Journal list. Number two on the New York Times. Unbelievable. I took the test. And you're going to hear some of that in the conversation. But before we dive into that, I want you to speak to our entree. leadership audience on the value. Why is it so important that we as leaders, Chris, see ourselves as others see us? Well, I think it's important because we can at times have this impression or

view of ourselves, but it's not how it's being projected to our team. And if you have that, what you're going to have is that it's a disconnect. And so I want to encourage people to also, number one, know who you are, know yourself, but then also know your team, but you have to have perception of how the team is seeing you. And I can remember, Ken, for myself, the first time this was a revelation for me, I videotaped a staff meeting. Now, I was going into it thinking that I was going to pump everybody up, okay? My facial expressions did not pump people up, okay? My tone. And so I sat and I watched that video and I thought, that is not what I intended to do. Right. I totally went against. And so watching that and seeing that, it gave me an

awareness of, hey, Chris, if you're trying to pump up your team, you need to smile, you need to be engaging, you need to be excited that you're working with them. And so it is very important to have that awareness of not only yourself, but your team. And if there is a disconnect, the great opportunity that you have can, is people can fix it. You can begin to take steps to shorten that gap and make a connection. All right, that's great stuff, Chris. Thanks for setting us up so well. Okay, leaders, it is time to learn. So take a listen to my conversation with Sally. Hogshead. Well, Sally, I want to dive right into this with you because the subtitle of this book is so intriguing to me. How the World Sees You and then the subtitle, discover your highest

value through the science of fascination. And it caught my attention because I went, I've never even heard of the science of fascination. I dive into the book and find out that you commissioned a study to actually find out how fascination works in our culture. I want you to unpack that. Fascination is an intense focus. And nobody's really studied. Why do we become intensely focused on certain messages or certain people or certain brands? And so I developed the first study that measures, why do we pay attention to certain people? Why do we trust certain leaders?

Why do we fall in love with certain people? Why do we feel passionately about certain investments and not others? And I found that there are very specific patterns underlying all of this, and it all ties back to communication. Now, this is amazing because you take this study and you begin to make the case very early in the book. In fact, page number four, and folks, I want you to really dial into this as I set her up to talk about this because you point out that on average, a woman will pay more to be fascinating than she pays for food and clothes. That turns out to be an average of $338 per month or roughly 15% of her net income. And here's the huge lesson. If you can help someone feel that they're fascinating or more fascinating, they will pay you a premium.

That's a big finding. And it applies not only in branding and also applies in conversation. So if you're talking to a prospect, you're talking to a family member or an employee or a customer, imagine if you could make them feel fascinating. So it's not just about you. You're not just handing them a business card, but instead you're able to authentically and confidently engage them in a discussion. Well, it turns out for my research with 300,000 professionals, they're very specific ways to do this. It's not a mystery.

It's a science. You can see step by step in what way can you create a fascinating discussion with somebody so they're completely immersed, totally focused on you, buying into what you're saying, buying your products and services so that you can build authentic loyalty over time. So how do we see this play out, this idea of making our customers feel fascinating? because this is a real challenge to do, I think, at times. I think we understand this, but how do we do that? There are two different ways in which you communicate. Every time you open your mouth to speak or write an email or create a marketing message,

you're doing one of two things. You're either adding value or you're taking up space. When you're adding value, you kind of way to think about being in a meeting and imagine everybody's around the table and somebody raises their hand and they make an excellent point. And you feel enlightened, you're excited, you're invigorated, you're engaged, It gets your mind thinking, and suddenly everybody's having an active conversation in which people are contributing and connecting. On the other hand, imagine you're at that same table.

If somebody raises their hand, but they say something that's off topic or it doesn't really add to the discussion. It's like we already know that. We kind of want to block that person out. You don't really want to connect with them. You don't really want to, someone's like human spam. That's right. You want to build them out and put them in that spam folder. Well, when we can connect with people and add value instead of just taking up space, in other words, when we can draw them to us and help them think differently, help contribute to them in a way that serves them, we're far more likely to make them feel fascinating, and as a result, they're far more likely to buy from us, trust us, believe us, connect with us, follow us, champion for us.

And this is where really successful businesses happen, but more importantly, this is how successful communication and relationships are built. This is such a huge point. I want to stay right here, this idea of adding value. Because I don't know any leader, certainly not our entree leadership audience, who doesn't strive to add value on a daily basis. And I think the single most important sentence you wrote in the book is on page six at the very beginning of the book. And you write, the greatest value you can add is to become more of yourself. I want to read that again because I think that's so huge. And then, Sally, I want you to talk to us about why this is so important.

The greatest value you can add is to become more of yourself. Wow. Is that counterintuitive in a very glitzy, glamorous culture today? It's very counterintuitive because we think that we have problems that we need to fix or in some ways we need to change. And here's the reality of what we studied from 300,000 professionals. Among high performers, they don't try to change who they are. They try to become more of who they are. They understand that their personality has certain traits.

that in the right context are intensely valuable. There are certain ways in which your personality already has built-in advantages. And when you can identify those advantages, you can play to them every time, so that you're seen in the best possible light. You're making the best possible impression. You're more influential, you're more persuasive. Your personality doesn't need to change. You just have to identify what those traits are, those patterns in your communication,

and become more of that. And in order to be more successful, this is why I say the greatest value you can add is to become more of yourself. So what are those traits? What are those traits within you that are most valuable? Because when you can focus on that, you can stop trying to change yourself, stop trying to fix something, stop trying to be all things to all people, and instead just do more of what you're already doing right. Boy, that is so valuable, folks. Sally, of course, this study is such a great partner to the book, How the World Sees You.

And I want to make sure we spend just a few moments talking about the differentiator here because I took the fascination advantage a couple days ago. We'll talk about that in a few minutes because it really is fantastic stuff. But I also have taken Myers-Briggs. I'm an ENFP for anybody keeping score at home. I've taken the disc. I'm an I and a D. They're both off the charts, the same level. And then I took this.

and this is very different. And I want you, Sally, to explain the difference in the fascination advantage. Sure. Look, the world of communication has changed from the time when Myers-Briggs was originally invented. The Internet didn't exist then. A traditional personality assessment tells you how you see the world. And that's an important piece of information to know, how you see the world. Those assessments are built on psychology.

But today, things become more distracted and competitive and commoditized. there's a missing piece of the puzzle, and the missing piece is this. It's not just about how you see the world, it's how the world sees you. In other words, how does your listeners see you at your best? What are they most inspired by, attracted to? In what way are you able to contribute something that they can't get anywhere else? So when I created this assessment, I began my research a decade ago, and I looked at the science of branding, the science of communication,

and what I found is there are very specific patterns to how people perceive you, and certain patterns how your personality is most likely to impress and influence that person sitting on the other side of the table. And once you know what those patterns are, which I describe in the book, when you know those patterns, it becomes really easy to frontload your value and to create relationships and conversations that make a difference instead of struggling to figure out how to get in that conversational flow. Now, Sally, congratulations are in order, folks, because as I mentioned earlier, the book

debuted just recently. It's just now become a number one Wall Street Journal bestseller at number two on the New York Times list. So this book is all over the place. And it's still early on in the process. But Sally, I want to ask you, is there a story or a conversation that has popped up in the result of the book coming out where it just exemplifies what you wanted to happen in someone's life when they took this test and read the book? Yes. The greatest thing that I'm seeing is the people are recognizing what it means to be valuable and their personality is an asset. We think of our assets as being our stock portfolio, maybe our house, a retirement fund. Well, the greatest asset that you have is your personality. It doesn't depreciate. You don't have to grow it like overhead, and you already

have it. But how are you applying that in a really effective way? So, for example, when we work with financial advisors, one of the most wonderful things that I see is when people are used to thinking of their product as a commodity, and to a certain degree they think of themselves as a commodity, and they think that, in a sense, their personality is just transactional in the relationship, that their personality doesn't really play a role in what their outcome is going to be. But when we studied about 20,000 financial advisors who are really selling the exact same product and service as their competitors, it truly is a commodity, we've been finding that now they have the words to describe themselves and that this gives them a way to articulate who they are at their best.

In the book, I give the actual marketing copy of it, the adjectives to describe yourself based on how the world sees you at your best. And again and again and again, we're getting these letters and emails and tweets and posts about how this is transformational for people's revenue, because they can stop fighting in hand-to-hand combat in the dog fight of commoditization trying to raise your marketing budget. Instead of focusing on having the biggest budget, they can just focus on adding the most value. they're naturally fascinating their customer. And we're seeing returns like people saying they've tripled their revenue over the course of 72 hours just by changing the marketing copy on their website because now people get them and it clicks for their prospects. Oh, that's so good.

See, this is storytelling. And you've got to know how to tell the story and tell your story. And this is such a great tool for that. Okay, Sally, let's have some fun here because I want our audience to get a snapshot of how rewarding the fascination advantage is for them. And we have a special offer, so stay tuned. Don't go anywhere because we've got a great offer for you from Sally. I took it. You sent me the link. I've got the book. I just digested it and took it. And so let's pick on me a little bit, Sally. Is that all right with you? We sure can. All right. So what do you want to know first? Walk me through this. I want to turn the tables a

little bit. Can you a few questions, Ken? Oh, of course. So first I'll give you a little bit of background for everybody who's listening because we all know and love Ken. And now I'm going to reveal how the world sees Ken it is best. There are seven different ways that people can. communicate. And this is based on the study that we've been doing over the last decade. We found all communication falls into seven different patterns, seven different types of how you're perceived by others. But each personality uses two of those seven ways. And when you understand how these two advantages interact, you get a much better sense of how you're most likely to make the best possible impression and build a relationship. And so when we looked at Ken's results, his primary

advantage is prestige, meaning he's all about excellence. He likes higher standards. He likes to be able to help people find a better way to do things. His secondary advantage is passion, which means he's intuitive, he's warm, he's emotional, he knows how to build a relationship quickly. And when you combine prestige plus passion, the archetype name is the connoisseur. Now, I want to think about a regular connoisseur, maybe a connoisseur of wine, a connoisseur of chocolate. It means they're discerning, they're in the know, they're astute, they're able to, to event, evaluate multiple things and see which one is best. Well, Ken, what we saw in your results is you naturally are able to take a range of things

and see how do you make them better, which one of them is the best, and how do you connect with other people to describe this? And there are five adjectives that are associated with your archetypes. I'm going to describe the first three adjectives. And I want you to be thinking about your LinkedIn profile or thinking about how you introduce yourself at a networking event or maybe even how you start your introduction here on the show. And your three adjectives are insightful, distinguished, and in the know. And these describe how you are different.

So as you know in your report, when we look at page six of your report, it gives you what's basically the marketing copy that you can just cut and paste and put on your website or put in your brochure. But I want to talk about you can. Which of those three adjectives for you feel like how you are different from other people. Would it be insightful, distinguished, or in the no? Well, I'm very impressed with myself all of a sudden. This is very nice. Very nice. No, I'm kidding, folks. You know, it's interesting. It would probably rotate between insightful and in the know, given the roles that I play. You know what I mean? So I'm a guy who just reads a ton. I just am always reading and paying attention a bit of an observer is how I would describe myself. So I guess it would rotate between the insightful and in the no, depending on what role I'm playing. And that makes sense.

Insightful is what you do with information once you have it. In the know is collecting as much information as you possibly can. I'm going to keep it simple. I'm going to go with in the know. So I'm going to pick this one. Can you go with me on this one? I'm going to go with you. You're the expert.

Tell me a situation that you really want to play your A game. You want to go in. You want to make sure that you are instantly impressing the person, creating a connection, adding value, and not taking up space. What's an example of communication? Well, absolutely my interviews. I mean, I'm interviewing folks like you all the time for this podcast, people that are way smarter than me and have something good to say,

and I've got to facilitate that out for our listeners. So this is a great example. That's a perfect example. Now, imagine if you were to go into an interview, and you felt like you were not in the know. In other words, you haven't done your homework, or maybe this was a surprise. You kind of got thrown for a loop.

You've got misinformation. How would that feel for you? I would feel embarrassed. I would be very angry at myself. No question about it. It'd really be a struggle. Yeah. So in other words, when you're prevented from who you're being at your best, it feels like a failure.

Yes. And this is what happens a lot of times in our careers, is that when we're prevented from doing what we naturally do at our best, we're put it a huge disadvantage. We cannot make a positive impression. On the other hand, let's imagine you're getting ready for an interview. You've got your information lined up. You've got everything mentally locked in. You are totally ready to go, and you start the interview, and it's flowing. What does that feel like?

It's like you're sailing. The wind is behind you. It's very much a sweet spot feeling when you hit a tennis ball perfectly or a golf ball. It's just effortless. I'm imagining that great old Nike commercial from the 90s where it has Michael Jordan and he's sailing towards the basket. It feels effortless. You don't even have to try.

When you set yourself up for success by focusing on the adjective that allows you to mentally hone in, remember, you don't have to be all things to all people. you have to be extraordinary in one particular way. And the way that you are most likely to be extraordinary is by being in the no. Not everybody's like you. Some people would be at their very best by being meticulous. So for them, when they're getting ready for an interview

or a meeting or an introduction, they would want to make sure that they're absolutely meticulous. For somebody else, it might be that they're an orthodox or out of the box. And for them, it would be crucial to focus on that one attribute. When you can hone in and focus on the way in which you are most likely to add that, It takes away a lot of the pressure, a lot of the confusion and the doubt, and that struggle that we so often feel when we communicate.

So when you take the assessment and you read the book, it gives you exactly the adjectives you need so that you can focus in, relax, and get in your zone. This is really good. And then, of course, I want to touch on this very briefly, our dormant advantage, because this is really good as we look at, okay, there's all the positive kind of how the world sees you, but this is your dormant advantage. Explain that and why that's important. There are some areas in which you're going to have a disadvantage. Remember, you don't have to be great at everything. You have to be extraordinary in one way. Well, the way in which you're extraordinary, as we described,

as being in the know, but that you have a disadvantage when it comes to other scenarios. Let's imagine that you are going into an interview and they say, listen, can we just want you to follow the script step by step? You can't do any ad-libbing. Just make sure you stick to the points, and we're going to give you a spreadsheet of information. How would that feel for you? Oh, just it's pathetic. I wouldn't know what to do.

It would be cold-crushing, right? Yeah, absolutely. I don't even know how to act. Yes. So that's not how the world sees you at your best, and that's your dormant advantage. The name of your dormant advantage is Mystique. Personalities who score low on Mystique tend to like to jump in the heart of the action. They don't like to withhold their opinions. They want to immediately communicate.

They tend to be lightning-fast thinkers. On the other hand, people who have primary mystique are outstanding intellectual problem-solvers. They're scholars, their chess players. They like to be able to take information and put it in order very methodically and systematically. That's not who you are. And so the lesson to learn out of this is that if somebody is expecting you to communicate in a way that's going to be observant and following a pattern, you're going to be uncomfortable. You're going to be unsuccessful.

It's going to take a huge amount of effort for you to be successful. When you want to know your dormant advantage, it gives you permission to understand the areas where you are most likely to fall on your face because it feels like quicksand. This is very practical stuff. I absolutely love this. And I want to segue now because we've been really diving into the individuality of this wonderful study, the fascination advantage. But now I want to have you just apply this to a corporate setting, a team setting, because our entree leadership team, a couple weeks ago, I'm told, took the tests, and so I'm kind of late to the game, and so the whole team took it. Why is this valuable to our entree leaders out there and employing this with their team? When we studied high-performing teams within organizations or small businesses, we found very consistent patterns. And I'll deconstruct that for you now. We looked at 300,000 professionals inside companies like AT&T, GE, Cisco, Qualcomm, as well as over 100,000

small business leaders. And we found that among the high-performing teams, they didn't focus on how they were similar. They focused on how they were different. In other words, they identified the differences within the groups that they could optimize each other. The problem is that most leaders, they hire to run. replicate themselves. And in doing so, the teams become top-heavy. And so they're over-indexed on the advantages, and they're grossly exaggerated and their disadvantages. In high-performing teams, on the other hand, different people contribute different things, almost like a specialty.

Imagine a restaurant. Do you have a favorite restaurant, Ken, that has a specialty, maybe a drink or a dessert, a dish? Oh, my gosh, you asked me a very difficult question, just to choose one. I'll tell you this. I was down at Joe's, legendary Joe's in Miami over the weekend, and I had some king crab legs. So let's go with that because I love me some king crab legs. Now, Joe's king crab legs, I've had them. They're good. And there are many things that... Oh, hold on. Hold on. They're not good. They're great, Sally. They are great. You're absolutely right. But they also do many things are great. They're stone crabs. Oh, yes. They're sourdough bread. They're cocktails. I mean, you know, everything... There are many things they do that are great. But they have a specialty.

And for you, that specialty, if they told you, hey, Ken, we're raising the price 20 percent. And by the way, it's only available twice a year. You would go out of your way. Absolutely. If you pay more money for that specialty, right? No question. If you put those king crab legs on top of my head, my tongue would beat my brains out trying to get to them. So in the same way, Joe has a specialty, and it's very valuable to you.

In fact, it's even intensely valuable. Personality have a specialty. And on teams, everybody understands that they have a specialty of what. what they can contribute. And it's not necessarily a skill or a network or experience. It's a quality of what they can deliver. And this comes back to the anthem. So imagine that you have people on a team, and one person delivers meticulous follow-through.

And so the way that they're really going to shine, the way they're going to feel most fulfilled and be perceived as most valuable is by making sure that everything is listed and organized and practical and set up in advance that there's really easy implementation. And they're working with somebody, on the other hand, who has bold artistic vision. And the bold artistic vision person can come in and brainstorm and come up with a myriad of ideas, a dozen different ways to solve a problem, but they're not good and meticulous follow-through. Now, those two completely different personalities may not always see eye-to-eye, and they may not want

to hang out after work, but they're actually a match made in heaven in terms of operating on a team. But before you can create this dream team, you have to identify what each person's advantages are, so that they can see what is their specialty. And once they know their specialty, then they can really hone in to over-deliver for their team members, their clients, their customers. It allows people to stop trying to be all things to all people. Remember what we said at the beginning. The greatest value you can add is to become more of yourself. Yes, that is so good. And folks, this is just the tip of the iceberg. This is unbelievable information. I took the, it took me about 15 minutes, Sally, to take the fascination advantage test and it spit out this unbelievable report.

And I want to talk about a special offer, but take about 30 seconds and explain how you and your organization stay with us and our team after we take the test. When you take the assessment, it's just the first step because we're identifying how the world sees you. But then it's all about amplifying that. How does the world for you at your best that you can apply this in every type of communication? The application of marketing is obvious because the assessment's built on marketing. But this is about thinking, how do you have a communication with a friend who's struggling or your child that you want to keep off drugs or the website with a message that you believe so fervently in, but it's not getting the traffic you want?

You are the guardian of your message, and it's your responsibility to make sure that if you believe your message matters, that that message is heard. So we give you all kinds of ways that you can make your message heard within your team. with your customers, within your community. And it's our mission to help more people understand what makes them valuable. The greatest gift that you can give is to help someone else reach their own highest value. So we want to spread this and share this. And we encourage people to share the code that you're going to be giving them in just a moment

so that others can see their highest value. All right. So I'm so excited. And folks, we absolutely endorse this. Again, like I said earlier, our Entree leadership team has gone through this. I've taken the assessment myself. And here's what we want you to do. Okay, we want you to write down the code, very simple, entree leadership.

The code is entre leadership. Now, this assessment is normally $37, which is already a terrific value. Believe me, for what you're going to get out of it, but Sally is offering it to you, our listeners, for free. The code is entree leadership. Now, here's what you do. You're going to go to how the world sees you.com. how the world sees you.com forward slash type in you. How theworldsiesu.com forward slash you. And Sally, tell them what they're going to do when they get there. Sure, it's really easy. They're going to come to

a page, and we already have it all set up for on-tray leadership folks. We welcome you in. You'll type in your code. You'll take an assessment. It's only 28 questions. You can do it on your cell phone. It's immediate. And the algorithm is going to calculate how to people, people see you at your best so that you can focus on constantly adding more value and contributing to other people. And immediately, you get a full-length report that describes the adjectives you need to describe yourself, the ways in which you might have a pitfall that you're not aware of. Is there a way that you're pushing people away or turning people off and you don't even

realize it? And how do you compare to the average population? In what ways are you different so that you can focus in on making sure that you're not trying to be all things to all people? You're not trying to change yourself. You're trying to become more of yourself. And we encourage people, if you find value in this, share it with your community group. Post it on Twitter, post it on Facebook, and spread this message so that other people can find their highest value within their own community.

She is Sally Hogshead, and she is a fascinating lady, a fascinating best-selling author. and folks, the book is How the World sees you, discover your highest value through the science of fascination, please take this special offer. How theworldssees you.com forward slash you. The code is Entree Leadership. And we're going to stay in touch to see how our audience reacts to this information. We want you to communicate with us, as always, podcast at Entreeleadership.com. Also, follow Sally on Twitter, very simple, at Sally Hogsend.

Sally, you are absolutely fantastic. Thank you for being a part of our podcast, and I know I'm better for it, and so is our audience. What an honor. Thank you so much. I love that you shared yourself with your in-the-noe communication and insightful vision, or communicating in a way that helps me think and feel. I appreciate it. Well, I appreciate that, and hopefully we helped our audience at home by using me as a test dummy, and it was great fun. So again, thank you, Sally. We're going to have you back very soon. I look forward to it. Well, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we did. Chris, we've got a special offer, really generous from Sally. The assessment that we've been talking about in the conversation is a $37 cost.

She's going to offer it free to all of our entree leadership listeners. Very simple. Go to how the world sees you.com forward slash you. All right. How the world sees you. com forward slash you. And type in the code, Entree leadership. And you will get this for free.

And Chris, I want you to talk about this because this is just not some flimsy offer we're throwing out here. How can leaders take this individually and prosper as well as do it with their team? Well, I think the first thing we always talk about at Entree leadership is being intentional. And so definitely take the time, take advantage of this opportunity to really plug in and have some more awareness. It's going to give you a clear view on what you can do to help you because as a leader, the more you help you, the more you can help your team. Chris, I want you to talk about something because this might be a little painful for you. for people. I mean, honestly, I mean, when we get a mirror back in our face, sometimes it's not great. But I want you to talk about pressing through that because self-awareness is so critical, but it's not always a,

oh, a flattery contest. No, not at all. And I'm going to tell you something, Ken, one of the things that I like, I want people to be honest. I want people to shoot me straight so I can know what I can do to improve. And so whenever you have self-awareness, it can be uncomfortable. It can be at times challenging. But I want you to hear me when I tell you this. When you have self-awareness, you can then begin to take steps towards self-improvement. And I don't know any leader out there that wants to stay where they are. So to improve, you have to have awareness. So look at it. Take the information with a grain of salt. Remember, it is not defining you. It's showing you areas that you can improve. Then you can consciously take those steps to make improvement for yourself. Well, folks,

we really do want you to take advantage of this great offer. And I also want to mention, we are thinking about you every day, every week, every month, every year. And that's why we created All Access. A phenomenal program online, Entreeleadership.com. Click on All Access. Chris, you're teaching on it all the time. This is a program we developed to help people keep going the next level because entrepreneurship is lonely. And it can be tough without any help. It really is. And I don't think people understand that it is a program that's designed to help you grow yourself. And so you have an opportunity to sit at your computer at work or at your computer at home and grow yourself. And so I have a lot of people that are plugging in and they're teaching their team.

And so it is truly our game plan for leadership. So I want to encourage everyone, plug in all access, know exactly what's going on and start to take steps toward growth. Fantastic stuff. Hey folks, it's time for a new segment here on the Entree Leadership podcast. I've told you the last couple of podcasts, we want to hear from you. And of course, we've given you our email address that is podcast at Entreeleadership.com. And Chris, we got a couple great emails.

And so we're going to put you on the spot because you like it and you can help these good people. So it's time for Ken's Electronic Mail. Ken's Electronic Mail. You've got mail. How about that? There you go. That's pretty fancy. I like that.

Well, you know, anybody can say email or we can call it what it is. It's electronic mail. Very good. All right. Here we go. First question from Lindsay. She says, what actions do you recommend for the person who is locked in? to where they are for the time being, as well as someone who is looking to change, but they want

to avoid landing in the same situation again. Two questions there, but very pertinent question. I would tell her this, that if you are locked in where you are now, you need to stay focused and bring it. Don't tread water. Don't be in there just trying to kill time. Because see, if your heart isn't in the seat, then your butt doesn't need to be there either. So if you're going to be there, bring it, do it all, because it's your work ethic. You are, you are about yourself. Now, I'll tell you this, if you're looking to make some change, what you're going to do is you're going to do that on your time. Because if you're working at that J.O.B, they're expecting you to bring it. So when you get home, your part-time job becomes looking for

the next thing. But I want you to bring it day in and day out until you leave that place because here's the deal, Ken, and you know this as good as I do. You don't burn bridges. That's right. Because you don't know who you're going to need and where you're going to need them in the future. So stay respectful. Keep your eye on the person. and do your job. That's good. Thank you, Lindsay, for that email. Hope that helps. And now our next question from Justin. This is interesting, Chris. I'm kind of interested to see how you answer that. I think a lot of entree leaders have this question. How would you pay team members in a company where there is no profit? So I'm trying to read into this. I mean, hello, first of all, we've got to

make sure we keep it open. We got a problem. We do have a problem. But they're not there yet. So I'm trying to read into that. All right. I'm going to take some liberty with this in two ways. Number one, I'm going to say, okay, how do you pay people if you don't have profit? Well, number one, as a leader, we got to get focused. We've got to do things. Two, you can't hire people until you have the money to be able to hire them. That's right. And so you want to be upfront and honest with someone.

So if someone's, you know, worth $50,000 a year and all you can pay them is $40, then you need to be upfront with them and have that open, honest conversation. And let's make sure we get a budget from them to make sure they could live off of what you can pay them. Yeah. All right? Now, the second side of that is I'm going to take it that they're saying they don't have profit sharing. That's right. Okay.

If you don't have a profit sharing system, there's a few things you can do. You can begin to talk with your team and offer profits at profit sharing quarterly or monthly. And how you can do that is based on how long someone's work with you, their attitude, and how where they're performing. And so as I speak with leaders, I tell them, those three things are intangibles. Those are things that you get to decide as the owner. If we have $2,000 here and I want to split it up between four team members, you go based off time that they've been with you, their attitude, and how well they do perform their job, then you get to decide how they're doing that. Ken, I'm going to caution people to not do this. Don't ever call profit sharing bonus.

Yes. You know why? Bonus comes from this mythical land. Right. Okay. Profit sharing comes out of an owner's pocket. That's right. The team needs to know where it's coming from.

That I own it. we've earned it and I'm deciding to share it. It's a game changer. Well, folks, we do want to hear from me. I want to thank those who have emailed us. We want to know what topics, what guests you'd like to have on this podcast. That's podcast at entreleadership.com. And by my notes, Chris, that's going to do it for this edition of the Entree Leadership podcast. I want to thank Sally Hogshead for spending time with us. And on behalf of Chris Hogan, our producer, Eric Anthony, and the entire Entree leadership team,

Thank you so much for listening. We will talk with you again very soon.