EntreLeadership - #93: Jon Gordon and Bob Burg—Developing Culture

Episode Date: March 23, 2015

This week, we're all about creating company culture, and we're talking with two leading experts on it for their top tips. Jon Gordon is author of The Energy Bus: 10 Rules to Fuel Your Life, Work and Team with Positive Energy and Bob Burg, author of The Go-Giver. http://www.entreleadership.com/win http://www.entreleadership.com/podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

charismatic, passionate, as integrity, humble, servant, faithful, inspiring, persevering, positive, flexible, driven. This is who we are that call ourselves leaders. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. Coming to you from the Music City, this is the podcast of Leaders by Leaders. And four leaders. Welcome leaders. I am Kim, your host. Thrill to have you with us. Great episode today. You're doing something kind of fun. We thought we would string together two conversations about the same length because we really are focusing in on some positivity. But some positivity that is extremely practical. The two interviews are John Gordon, bestselling author and Bob Berg, bestselling author, the two books, John Gordon's Energy Bus and the go-giver by Bob Berg will be the context of our conversation. So, That is coming up. And of course, you'll hear from Clayt Mask in just moments as well from Infusionsoft.

But, you know, the focus this month for the entire Entree Leadership team on our website at Entreeleadership.com is culture. And when the powers that be told me, Ken, this is our focus is with. I got very excited about this because as you get to know me, you will learn that I am a big sports fan. And because I'm a big sports fan and because of the opportunities I've been given, over the last several years, I've been able to become friends with some college. basketball coaches. Now, I love football, but if I had to pick one sport, I love college basketball. I'm just an absolute nut about it. And I was on the phone the other day with a college basketball coach and protect the privacy of the conversation, but he's become a friend. And, you know, he just encourages me. He loves what I do, and I love what he does. And so it's kind of fun to talk with each other because the conversation is always for each other. So I'm jacked about

what he's doing and he likes what I'm doing. So we spend our time just totally into each other's world, and it's just really encouraging. And they are just finished their second season at the college division one level. You know, they're recruiting new players, but they have inherited the players from the former coach. And anytime you take over a program, you are trying to instill the new culture, the way you do things. That's everything from practice. to classroom expectations. I mean, it's everything. And there is a way that they believe it should be done.

And so they've inherited some players who just, quite frankly, some of them don't want to do it, especially some of the older guys. And we were just talking about this idea of building a program. And the similarities to building a business are so rich and huge. I hung up the phone, and I just sat and reflected on. I want to share a couple of the reflections, because I think it will. help you as great context for this idea of how do you build a winning culture? And by the way, a winning culture is not just a few big wins here and there. It is winning consistently over the long haul. That's a winning culture. And so here are the couple things. You have got to have

a culture that is absolutely consistent with what you want to achieve. You just do. You can't just go in and coach X's and O's and tell people how to do their job and then have them practice it and then have them do it in a game time situation. You've got to have a winning culture, a culture that mirrors your ultimate goals. So if you want some longevity, you better have a team that cares for each other. You want to win, you have to have a team that is committed to the bigger goals, not to their own personal success. And so we were talking about this, and I got to tell you, culture first.

technique second. I think you've got to develop the culture and make sure that is consistent from the star player to the role player. And every person from the freshman to the veteran senior players have got to be bought into the culture. I think if you can change the culture in your organization to match the goals that you want to achieve, meaning the people that you need, the attitudes that you need, you just fill in the blank.

That's what you've got to do. So I think culture is huge. And that's why I'm excited about everything. we're doing this month at entreleadership.com. I'll tell you more about a great tool we've got for you. So I'll tease that. That is the end of the podcast. Stay here.

Free tool that'll help you begin to design and execute a winning culture. So that's all coming up. It's going to be a great podcast. So thrilled to have you on board. Before we head into our feature conversation of this episode, we want to jump on the line again with Clayton Mask, the CEO of InfusionSoft. He's got a great business tip for us. Clayt, all the way from sunny, dry, Arizona. How are you doing out there? I'm doing great, Ken. Great to be with you.

Yeah, we love hanging out with you. Okay, this is a fun question for the sales people. Why does follow-up matter so much? You know, this is important for salespeople. It's important for business owners. Anybody that's trying to help get their product or service out in the world, here's the thing. People buy when they're ready to buy, not when the sales reps ready to sell something. It's all timing. And so if we are not staying in front of the prospect in a polite, educational, friendly way, not in like a pound them and spam them, not that at all.

But if we're not staying in front of the prospect, and if we're not there when the prospect is ready to buy, we won't be able to get our products and services into the hands of those customers. And so because it's all about timing and because people buy when they're ready, and in fact, usually people get the message six, seven, or eight times before they actually make a purchase. Therefore, follow-up is critical. We can either be the one that is following up, staying in front of that prospect, or leave it a chance where, more likely, our competitor or somebody else is going to make the sale. I'd rather not do that. Follow-up works.

It matters a lot, and it's something I'm constantly helping small businesses understand you've got to do to be successful. Well, the good news about this tip is you exist. Your entire purpose for existing is to help us follow up. Talk to us about why you're here. That's right. Our purpose is to help small businesses succeed, and we know that follow-up is a huge part of that. And so it's baked into the software that we provide to our customers. Our software is sales and marketing software that helps our customers get organized, grow sales, and save time so that they can enjoy their business and have a great life. All right, people. We've got a soft landing place for those of you who say, I need this help. It's infusionsoft.com slash entre. Infusionsoft.com slash entree.

Clay, we always love hanging out with you. A little jealous. We'd love to see some cactus right now out my window, but it's not happening in Middle Tennessee. But we'll talk with you soon, buddy. All right, sounds good. Thanks. We'll have to get you out here as soon. All right, folks.

Now, remember, there are tons of resources at that website, so please take a look at it. it will not be a wasted moment of your life. I promise you that. Well, I'm excited because John Gordon is a longtime friend. And it's always fun when I can get friends on this podcast because I just get so excited because I know what they're going to deliver. And this guy is true blue. He's going to pick you up. He's going to give you some wonderful positivity that will help you in a practical way every day. Here is my conversation with bestselling author, John Gordon. John, I don't know if the people who read your books, unless they're following you on Twitter, they probably don't realize how often you are hanging out with professional football teams, basketball teams. So just a few the Falcons have used your services, the Oklahoma City Thunder.

Then you got Clemson football program, Tennessee's football program. The list goes on and on and on. We don't need to drop any more names. But what I find fascinating about that is you're writing about leadership and teamwork from a podcast. positive perspective, but the men and women who are leading programs in these high pressure situations are bringing you in to mentor them and their teams. What have you learned in these experiences about high performing teams? I've learned that high performing teams are positive. They have more positive energy. They're focused on being their best. They have a tremendous

amount of optimism and belief. Great coaches inspire their teams to believe in themselves. Great coaches inspire their teams to believe they can win. So belief is a huge part of it. High performing teams weed out the negativity. Too much negativity will sabotage a team. We have to have some conflict. We have to have healthy conflict. But negativity that drains a team will sabotage their performance. So I've learned that a team that is connected, that they come together, they're committed to each other, to the mission, that connected team becomes a powerful team. So, for instance, Billy Donovan last year, Florida Gators, Billy Donovan focused on really creating

a connected team last year. They didn't have a lot of talent. Team beats talent when talent isn't a team. Team beats talent when talent isn't a team. So when you are a connected team and you are truly connected to each other, you're actually able to beat a lot of teams that may have talent, but they're really not together. as a team. And it starts with the leadership.

I mean, we know this, right? John Maxwell has said it many times. Everything rises and falls on leadership. But when you get in and see these cultures, what are the leaders, what are they doing themselves that begin to foster this type of healthy team culture? Well, a few years ago,

a great case study. I had two teams that played each other, two powerhouse football programs. Both gave their teams the energy bus. I spoke to both teams. One coach really ingrained the principles from my talk and the book into the team. Came up with a lot of initiatives,

a lot of goals, a lot of things that the energy bus was a part of that. So he took the message and he kept sharing it, reinforcing it. The other coach just said, hey guys, here's a book. Read it. And that was it.

What I've learned is, it's not me, it's not the book. It's the coach and the leader driving the bus. You can give a team a bus, but unless you have a driver driving it, the bus doesn't move. So it's about the leader reinforcing it.

the leader has to believe in the message. They have to live it. They have to breathe it. They have to get the team to truly buy in. And when they're reinforcing it throughout the season, that creates amazing results. Now, every team will be tested. Every team I work with gets tested. That's to decide if the positive energy and the optimism and the belief is real.

So you will be tested. But it's amazing. Once they pass the test and they say, you know what? We're going to stay positive through this. We will not allow negativity to sabotage us or our team are our mission. that's when they take off. I just heard from the LSU volleyball coach. They lost the first few games.

They were playing horrible. They started reading the energy bus this season. They won 14 in a row. They made it to the NCAA tournament. They said it became a part of who they were. They said they were changed forever because they started to live and breathe it. I want you to encourage people who may be a part of a team, John,

that there are some positive people on the team. They believe in what they do, but they're suffering because they have a leader or leadership team that doesn't get this. They're just, the leaders are the energy vampires as you talk about an energy bus. This is tough. What would you say to them?

That is the saddest email or call I get. I'm sure. I'm trying to stay positive, but my boss is the energy vampire or my coach is an energy vampire. My leader is an energy vampire. I would say to them, you lead from where you are, right?

Maxwell talks about leading from where you are. You influence your coach. You lead the people that, you are able to lead every day. Control what you can control. Set the example through your leadership. Let's face it, Tim Tebow inspired Urban Meyer. Yeah.

Tim Tebow helped Urban Meyer become a better leader from his leadership. So I believe you can actually serve as a model for your coach. I also believe you should give your coach articles to read. Hand him a book and say, hey, read this. It doesn't have to be mine. Hand him a positive teamwork book and say, hey, coach, check this out. I think it would be good for our team.

So you actually have to invite your coach on the bus if they happen to be an energy vampire. Don't just say, you know what, I can't do anything about it. I have no control. I'm not the leader. You can always lead an influence from who you are and where you are. Now, John, this gives me great pains as a Michigan fan. But I really have grown to admire this Ohio State team this year

that just won the national championship because they lost their All-American, All-Big Ten, Braxton-Miller quarterback to start the season. Then the backup comes in and they rally around this kid, and he becomes a Heisman trophy, basically a de facto finalist before he goes down to entry. And then here comes the third string kid, true freshman, and compound all of that with a lost one of their players to a tragic death in the middle of the season. What did you see? And again, I know you weren't in there intimately, but as you observe this, what are some of the characteristics of that team, maybe of Urban Meyer, that allowed them to, again, go back?

beyond the X's and O's to fight through and win a national championship against all odds. Here's what I believe. For years, people have been talking about the Sabin way. People want to follow the saving way. I believe people are looking at Urban Meyer saying, that's the leader who I need to follow. He is a tremendous coach, an incredible leader. They had a motto this year, a formula, E plus R equals O. We can't control the events in our life, but we can't control our response to those events, and that determines the outcome. So that, that's the, team was built with a mindset to say we will face adversity we will face challenges but how will we respond to those events and we have control over this team and over the outcome so it becomes a

self-fulfill in prophecy when you believe you can control and influence the events of your life you take actions necessary to do that and that's what they did great coaching though great play car yeah get their quarterback comfortable uses strengths bring the team together so a lot of it is great coaching. Other teams would have fallen apart, not them. But this is an interesting point that you make here because you can recruit skilled players. Obviously, you don't want to discount the fact that he had two really talented backups. Who could come in and do the job. That's a big deal. Talent matters. But you said this at the start of our conversation. I think it's worth revisiting.

Sometimes we focus on talent and systems and play calling and all that. But if we're missing that human element, that E, what is it? E plus R equals L. Plus our, so events, plus our response equals the outcome. If we miss that, I guess it's that human element, that psychological element, you know, the spirit, the mind, these are powerful things. And we can't overlook that if we want to be champions. Oh, and there's nothing more important than a team that is connected. That's really where my work now is.

I'm seeing the importance of that. I'm here from all these basketball coaches. John, my guys aren't connected. What do I do? Female basketball coaches. How do I get my team to connect? So what I do is I help them get their team to connect, to get to know each other, to go beyond surface communication, to really get to know each other and learn about their stories, about their past pains, their hurt, who they are, what's their past like? What are their challenges?

What are they afraid of? What were the best moments in their life? You really get to know your team. And when you develop that bond, right? That's what makes our military so powerful. All the Navy SEALs, all those guys will say, you know what? They have a bond of brotherhood. They're like brothers.

Well, guess what? You cannot be a great team unless you have that strong connection in the locker room. You win in the locker room first and then you win on the field of court. That's a great statement. It starts in the locker. I guarantee you look at every team that's been a strong team, a successful team. Patriots, strong in the locker room. No doubt about it.

Seahawks, strong in the locker room as well. That's why they were there. But that allows you to ultimately win close games because you have to be strong on the inside to battle everything on the outside. I've interviewed many, many coaches, and you've hung out with so many coaches in these private settings. I know you and I know this, but I would have put you on the spot here. Because for every coach I've talked to, they say, you know, I can coach all I want to, but I've got to get talent and I got to get good kids. So for the business leader listening in here today, if you were going to put your recruiter hat on and work for them, these men and women who are listening and say, all right, I'm going to go out and recruit a few key people that will turn your business around.

How would you describe those key people? Describe a couple of players that we should all be looking for. Three traits. Three things we control every day, whether it's in sports or business, you want to hire someone with a great attitude. You control your attitude. I want someone who is positive, optimistic, and has a strong belief in what they can do and what the team and the organization can do.

Effort. I want someone who is going to put in maximum effort, 100%. They're willing to work hard every day. They're humble. they're hungry, they're learning, they're growing, they're improving, but every day they show up, they're willing to work harder, every day to get better. So I want someone who applies the continuous improvement rule to their life, that they see themselves as a work in progress, someone who continue to get better. And then three, someone who's a great teammate.

My next book is about how to be a great teammate. We talk about leadership, right? But we need great teammates. So how do I work well with others? Am I selfless? Do I serve? Do I encourage? Am I a germ or am I a big dose of vitamin C to someone every day on my team? So I want people who are positively contagious and help my team be better. Those three. You and I both admire the great Zig Ziglar, as I'm sure most of our audience does. And my favorite quote that he ever uttered, and he uttered some amazingly beautiful statements is that if you spend your life helping other people get what they want, you'll get what you want. I know you believe that. So I'll close with asking you, what does that statement mean to you in your life?

It means you don't have to be great to serve, but you have to serve to be great. My job every day is just to invest in others, make a difference, continue to encourage others and make a difference in this world and in people's lives. If I do that, the outcome will take care of itself. It means that I focus on the root of the tree, not the fruit. That if I invest in that root and I nurture that route, I'll always have a great supply of fruit. Good stuff, as always from John. You know he's going to deliver good stuff to you. And by the way, he has multiple books. You would do yourself a favor to go to John Gordon.com.

That's J-O-N-Gordon.com. The guy writes these simple parable type books that just speak to people. And he has so much going on there. You need to check out all the books. You would absolutely benefit from all of them. I promise you that. And here's what we're going to do. in our quest to keep serving you fine men and women who are leading America's economy, we want to give away 25 of the energy bus, because we're going to give away 25 of the go-giver from Bob Burke, which is coming up in just moments, okay? But first, we're going to give away 25 of the energy bus, and I will tell you this. This book has become a sports Bible for many of the NFL, NBA, Division I Football, and College

basketball programs. I'm kidding you not. It's coaches are given away by the case. So here's all you have to do. We just want you to tweet something at Entree Leadership. So put the Entree Leadership handle in there. That's at Entree Leadership. And tweet something about the podcast. We'll leave that up to you.

And then to qualify, you have to use the hashtag, Conversation That Matters. Hashtag Conversation That Matters. And then Eric, the producer, will pick 25 of you, fortunate men and women. and he will get the book to you, okay? And then stay tuned because you can all qualify. I mean, you just tweet like crazy.

And we're going to have Bob Berg's book coming up after this conversation. Now, this is a great segue because Dave, this is maybe a little known fact. Maybe a lot of you know this. If you come to our Entree Leadership events, you know that when a new team member joins the team here at Ramsey Solutions, you get a case of books. And these are books that Dave highly recommends that everyone in our team, Rees. And one of those books is The Go Giver by Bob Berg. And so Eric, the producer, had a great idea. So you know what? We have some amazing books. Let's get some of these authors on. And Bob is a wonderful

guy. And I'm going to tell you, this book, The Go Giver, another guaranteed absolute value add. And so we got on the phone with Bob recently. And I want you to dive in to this conversation, another parable that will really set you free. So here is Bob Burke. Bob, I want you to summarize this parable. You call it a little story about a powerful business idea on the cover of the book. But what is this story the go-giver about? And what is the main thought that you want folks to take away from it? Yeah, that's a business partner, a fantastic story-deller John David Mann.

And it's about a young guy, is a young, ambitious, aggressive, up-and-comer named Joe. And he's a good guy, and he's well-meaning. But he's very focused on himself, and he is not nearly as successful as he believes he should be. And what he comes to understand, and this is really, is that shifting one's focus, and that's really the key, shifting one's focus from getting to giving. Now, in this context, when we say giving, we simply need constantly and consistently providing value to others. that doing so is not only a nice way financially. And when you think of it,

that really free market-based economy, where it's all about focusing on finding a way to pull the conferences. I'll often begin by saying nobody is going to buy from you before Drew, but what they will buy, they will be business with you, they will be in relationship. And let's go below the surface, Bob, because I think we need to address the elephant in the room. I think we all understand that.

and we can apply that, but there's a big difference between saying to a customer and a sales process, I'm giving you value and I'm providing you value and then actually showing. You understand what I'm saying there? I mean, there's a posturing, and then there's below the surface where somebody really feels like you're not selling them, you really are providing them value. How do we make sure that we aren't faking it, but we really are living this idea of the go-giver. Well, first, being genuine and authentic and your desire to add value to another person's life is very key. We need to be able to communicate that. How value to be a value,

and hey, so does most of the other companies providing that product or service. So how do I communicate that extra value? So I'm not having to resort to that enemy of productivity, which is trying to sell on low price. And let's face it, unless your last name is Walmart, making low price, your unique value proposition is not a good thing to do. It's neither unique. There's no value to it. It's hardly a proposition. We know that when you sell on low price, you're a commodity.

When you sell on value, they need to be able to come out of you. And in order to do that, value can be communicated probably in hundreds of ways, but they tend to come down to five what we call it, and those are ex-attention. Value comes first, which is a result of where your value comes first, and the money you receive is simply a very natural end. And that's what free market capitalism is all about. That's right. And folks, that's a wonderful statement.

I would encourage you to pause, rewind, and make sure you get the thought that Bob just laid there. That is gold. The thing I love about this book, Bob, the go-giver, is that there's a much greater thought and life principle here than just helping us in business. I mean, you just laid the case out. That last 30 seconds of your answer, you know, is the sole summary of why you should be a go-giverr. But I want to step back for a moment and go to the heart issue. There's nothing wrong with being a go-getter. But when you're a go-giver, you don't run the risk of always wanting more.

You know, if you're just all about yourself, all about your goals, it's almost an insatiable disease. You just can never become satiated. Whereas if you're giving, you get so much out of it. And it reminds me what Zig Ziglar has said so famously, which is if you help everybody else get what they want, you'll get what you want. I want you to talk about that because you can sell this way and do business this way if you live this way, correct? You know, you brought up a great book because I see the title of the book. We've heard being a go-getter is a great thing. Go-out

there be a go-getter. Are you saying that's not a good thing now? Absolutely not. We love go-getters. Why? Well, go-getters, take action. Go-getters, get things done. We all know. You can have the greatest thoughts, the best idea, certainly the best of the income. Unfortunately, there's no natural division between a go-getter and a go-giver. Many go-getters are also go-givers, and every go-giver is a... And this is the person, kind of feels entitled, if you will, to take, take, take, like this, and they can be good people. They tend to not have the time of success they feel they deserve, and even those times when they

temporarily do it, it typically doesn't laugh wrong, because it's not built on insolidus, move from themselves to other. who actually think worried about it. In the book, Bob, you talk about the five laws of stratospheric success. Law number one is law of value. Law number two is the law of compensation. Law number three, the law of influence. Number four, the law of authenticity.

And five, the law of receptivity. We don't have time to cover all of the laws, but I want to skip forward to the law of influence. I want you to tell us what the law of influence says and how we apply. it. To make their win, not suggest at all things being equal, more powerful, more effective way to elicit those feelings toward you from others. That's right. Boy, it's a game changer. When you move to influence with people, it's a whole different ballgame. You don't have to worry about sales anymore. Is that correct? You know, and I love what influence you. That's right.

What we have to give, what we have to offer. You know, what we say is even more important. And yet Who really? That's what character is all about. That's right. We have leaders that are listening in, Bob. We have sales leaders who are saying, okay, I'm intrigued. I get this. How do they practically, Bob, take the Go-Giver, the book, The Principles. How do they apply it practically and get their teams really on board with this?

Have you found over the years of this book's been out and the influence that the book has had? How can they apply it practically in the? the office? I think it's what I thought was the underlying premise in his brilliant book. People do things for the great influencer when they, when an idea, they ask themselves, what I'm asking this person to do. How does it align with zero? I'm asking this other human being to do, align with, we've come a lot closer to earning that client's commitment. Boy, that's good. Let's side down backwards notion about what people often think, well, selling is about, you know, or need. Telling at its very essence is do that how, not by focusing on why you think the product's great or why they should.

No, you do it by asking questions and really listening service. That's so good. He is Bob Berg, the book, The Go Giver, a little story about a powerful business idea. Bob, this is really good stuff. We are so grateful on behalf of our entire audience. I know that we are better for it and the time with you. So thank you very much. We really appreciate your time.

The absolute honor is mine. All right, the book is The Go Giver. And I told you earlier, we're going to give away 25 books. And so here we go. Very simple. You just tweet, just like you did for John Gordon's book, something about the at-on-re leadership podcast. You have to use the handle at-on-releadership.

And then you use the hashtag conversation. that matters. That simple. And you were qualified to win one of the 25 books from either John Gordon or Bob Berg, the two books, the energy bus, the go-giver, go get them, hand them out, even if you win the free book, or you don't win, all right? I mean, they're just that good. And by the way, I mentioned at the top of the podcast that our theme this month at entreleadership.com is all about culture. And so I'm telling you, the crack staff here, they're always creating value. And so I mentioned a free download. It is a PDF. And it's called the culture tree. Okay. It is a culture tree. And it is a wonderful visual illustration that will help you begin to visualize how you will grow a winning culture in your

organization. And it's just easy and it's free. It's at entreleadership.com slash podcast, which by the way, all things related to the podcast are always there. So if you're looking for some resource, Eric, the producer is always putting things up there. We have bonus video footage, and all types of wonderful links for you at entreleadership.com slash podcast. So that's where you go get the culture tree. And leaders, let me tell you something, visuals like this are so valuable. You could print out multiple copies, one copy, tape it to the closet door so you see it every day.

Put it in multiple places because these visuals really began to help you stay on track because building a winning, sustainable culture. Doesn't happen in a day? It happens every day. Big distinction. This is a great tool, Entreeleadership.com slash podcast. All right,

I want to thank John Gordon and Bob Berg and their publishing companies for the books and for the guys just spending a little time out of their very valuable and busy schedule to add value to you.

I know you appreciate it. And I want to thank Eric, the producer, as always, great podcast, sir. And on behalf of Eric and the entire Entree Leadership, team. I want to say, as we do every time, we appreciate you very much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.