EntreLeadership - #97: Jack Welch—Winning the Game

Episode Date: May 11, 2015

This week's podcast is a slam dunk with two legends joining us to talk leadership and maybe even a little basketball. First up is business titan Jack Welch, former CEO of GE. Jack shares his thoughts on winning the game, building a team, and growing your career. Then you'll meet Kevin Eastman, the vice president of basketball operations for the L.A. Clippers. Kevin shares his thoughts on teamwork, excellence and culture. Listen in because this one definitely is a three-pointer. Another great episode sponsored by our friends at Infusionsoft. http://www.entreleadership.com/podcast Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Charismatic, passionate, as integrity, humble, servant, faithful, inspiring, persevering, positive, flexible, driven. This is who we are that call ourselves leaders. Helping business leaders grow themselves, their team, and their profits. This is the Entree Leadership podcast. Now, here is your host, Ken Coleman. We are coming to you from the Music City, and this is the podcast of leaders, by leaders, and for leaders. which means it's for you. We're thrilled to have you with us.

Our feature interview is with Jack Welch. Now, if you don't know who Jack Welch is, it's one of two scenarios. Either you're really, really young, or you've been living under a rock. Now, the first one, no problem. Let no man despise thy youth. Look him up.

He is the former CEO, chairman of the board, of GE, one of the great American companies. If you've been living under a rock, for heaven's sakes, welcome. Either way, you would do well to learn more about Jack Welch. He is our feature conversation, and we're going to focus on the book he wrote, a brand new book out called The Real Life MBA. He and his wife, Susie Welch, co-wrote this book. This is the follow-up to their last book.

Over a decade ago, wild bestseller. And so here comes this book. It's really good. It's really practical. And by the way, they write it together in a very conversational style. because I know some of you wonder sometimes, do I read these books? The answer is yes. You're really going to love it.

By the way, we're giving away 50 books, producer Eric says. So you don't want to miss this opportunity to win a free book, the real-life NBA from Jackwell. So that's all coming up in just minutes. Also, I've got a little special edition here. You folks know that I am a basketball fan. I am a sports fan in general, but if you must know, I am a huge basketball fans, my favorite sport. And I've been blessed to run into basketball coaches through the awesome work that I get to do. It's such a total blessing.

And so I recently got to know the vice president of basketball operations for the Los Angeles Clippers. Kevin Eastman. Incidentally, Kevin is partners with Brendan Surr, one of our recent podcast guests, former dream team coach, coach of the Detroit Pistons. They worked together on coaching you, which I mentioned in the conversation with Brendan. And so I wanted to get Kevin on. And this is really cool because when we recorded this conversation, it was in the first round of the playoffs. And the Clippers were up 1-0 on the San Antonio Spurs. In fact, they had won in grand fashion, and we got on the phone with him early in the morning, L.A. time.

And I just think it's terrific value, as the NBA playoffs are going on around us, to hear from a former coach and the guy who works for Steve Ballmer, former CEO of Microsoft. And now the owner of the Clippers. Kevin has got gobs of content. We had to cut it down to fit it in, so you're going to enjoy that. So those are our two conversations, so you don't want to miss this, and you've got to stay tuned after the Jack Welch conversation. I'll tell you how you can win one of the 50 free books. Folks, it is always fun when we get to learn from Clayton Mask.

I know you're enjoying this series of business tips from Infusion Soft. Clayton on the line from beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. Clay, how you doing out there? I'm doing great, Ken. Great to be with you today. All right. Now, last time we talked about multi-system chaos, and that was a real eye-opener for me, and I know for our listeners, the question today is, what is the most neglected marketing principle in small business? That's a big question.

Yeah, it really is. I talk to business owners all the time across the country, the globe, actually, and I ask him this question about something that's really kind of eating at them, and what we hear again and again is a failure to follow up properly with prospects and customers. It's such a common marketing principle, and yet so many businesses fail to do it because they're so busy right in the day-to-day operations. Wow, that's really good. Clay, tell us why you're passionate, your entire team, top to bottom, in helping America's small business, men and women. We love entrepreneurs. We want to help them get organized, gross sales, and save time so they can have a successful business and a successful life.

All right, man. Always great to talk to you, Clay, but first, folks, before we say goodbye to the man, make sure you go learn more. about InfusionSoft and how they can help you. Infusionsoft.com slash entree. Infusionsoft.com slash entree. Clay, can't wait to talk to you next time, man. We really enjoy having you on. Thanks, Ken. I must tell you that it is an extreme privilege to talk to the people I get to talk to. And I feel like I need to say that out loud, because it really is awesome to get to speak and interview the people that I get to talk to. And it's really, really fun. And several years ago, I had the opportunity of interviewing Jack Welch in front of about 500 business leaders in Atlanta.

Great experience. One of those that I chalked up is a top 10 interview. And here he comes with a brand new book. Eric, the producer, goes in books him. And here we go, a second time getting to talk to Jack Welch. And I will tell you, as much as I enjoyed the first conversation, I enjoyed this one immensely more. So here it is Jack Welch on the Entry Leadership Podcast. Well, Jack, I want to start a lot.

off our conversation before we dive into the new book, which we're really excited about the real-life MBA. I think it would be great for our audience who are just personal growth junkies, men and women who love business, and as a result, they admire you. What are you spending your time on these days? Oh, my school, spending most of my time building this online school, the Jack Welch Management Institute. We've got 900 MBA students. Now, the average age is 38, and we're growing 40% study here in an NBA program that's fully online. And it's a wonderful experience to see see these people grow and prosper. That is really neat. I think it's really fascinating that you said the average student, if I heard you right, is 38 years old. That's got to be really

rewarding for you to see people diving in at that stage of life before they hit into their 40s and 50s. Well, they're real players. They're in the game. They want to grow in their careers, and they're getting rewarded. The average increase of our graduates during the course of the program is 18%. And 65% of them have gone on to new jobs while in the program. So it's just given their careers a big boost

and they don't have to take two years off and go to a leafy campus and hang out. They can do it from their bedroom or from their office at night or day and whoever their family relationships are we'll give them the time to do it. It's totally at their leisure. They've got to do it in a week each course and each assignment,

and they do it and adapt. So it's very exciting and nothing I've done has been as rewarding. Oh, that's really neat. It's hard to believe that it's been a decade since you and Susie wrote Winning, which was a international bestseller, just a phenomenal book. And so you team up again, and the title of the book is I'm in. mentioned, the real-life NBA. I love the subtitle. Your no BS guide to winning the game, building a team, and growing your career. And I think the natural follow-up here is you talked

about the Jack Welch Institute there and how you're helping people with their MBAs on their time, on their terms, and they're winning. Was that a huge inspiration as to why you decided to write this book? What's the why behind this book following up winning? But Susie and I have traveled the world, and I consults for a number of companies, and we have a private equity company that I work for that has 24 companies. So I'm in the game every day, and the game is changed. What we said in winning is true today, but everything's faster. It's more social media. Technology is overwhelming business after business after business.

Government's more involved. You've got to deal with governments more today than you. have in the past. So there's so many changes that we wanted to bring winning, if you will, into 2015 and what you do today and what you'll do with the next five years to win this changing game. And so this is really, it's got a lot of different stuff, but it doesn't throw out the old. It just puts a different light on it in the current environment. Well, folks, I devoured the book, and I'm telling you it's like you're listening to Jack and

Susie talk to you. how it reads. It's really spectacular. So we're going to dive deep. We can't cover it all, or we'd be talking to Jack for a day. I want to go through a couple sections and T-Jack up, so get out your notebooks, because here we go. One of the sections is entitled, Taking the Grind Out of the Game. That's a chapter. And I want to just hit the five points they make here and then dive into one. Taking the grind out of the game, Jack and Susie say, we've got to get into people's skin. You have to think of yourself as the chief meeting officer. You have to remove the blockages from your people's way. You have to

demonstrate the generosity gene, and you have to make sure that work is fun. Now, I'm just going to single out one of these, because the one that jumped off the page to me was to think of yourself as the chief meaning officer. Jack, define that for us, and then what does that look like in the culture of a company? Well, let's stop by going to that Gallup poll that's run every month, and he's a few 10,000 employees across the country. And they find that only 35 percent are engaged in their work. Sixty-five percent have no engagement in their work. It's remarkable. 65 percent of your team off the playing field in a way, or moduli on the playing field. So what this is all about is giving purpose to the work. You've got to get in the skin of your

employees. You've got to make them see where you're going, why you're going there, what's the purpose? And then the one that's left off to office. is what's in for them? What will happen to them if you get there? Better job, more job security, more money, better promotions, whatever. Make it clear where you're going, why you're going there,

and what's it for them? It's an absolute essential. Because people come to work, they've got to have a purpose. Now, it's easy. For example, in GE, in my old old days, and some of the companies I have which are old industrial businesses. It was so much easier in healthcare designing cats scanners and MRI machines,

saving lives to see purpose of the work. It was much harder making motors and widgets. So you have to get in there and say, here's what happens if we do this. We make other companies more productive. They create more jobs. Our jobs are more secure. You will get more job security. If we grow, we'll have promotions. You've got to lay out for them why we're doing it. Society's better for our customers because they become more competitive. But it's harder there to draw the thing, but you've got to do it.

You've got to give purpose to the job. And you've got to create a growth atmosphere where around every corner of this growth, where everybody comes in and everyone's idea counts. And if you do that, you really get the job. people juice. It's like putting a team on the field before a big game every day. That's so good. All right. I'm going to skip forward, folks. There's a chapter on growth, and I wrote down three words that I think is one of the most powerful thoughts in the book, and they're talking about growth, and here are the three words. I just kind of cut it down for you.

You guys say, concentrate, don't dilute. But that's a wonderful thought. Unpack that for us, Jack. One of the things you see people doing to be big corporations They dabble They cover quote the bases And their fannings at the same time So what they are doing Is putting a little bit of re-resources on this

A little on that A little on this, a little on that And they're not sticking their necks out We want to say We want to get people to buy into the thought of We're going for it We believe in this idea We're putting our best people on it.

We're putting our best resources on it, the most we can possibly do, and we're not going to dilute that by sponsoring five other things so we can say we looked at everything. We want to be willing to walk the plank with our bet for growth, and we're going to go for it. And we're all in together. I love that's so good. All right. I want to jump forward. Another section of the book that I thought was great.

you all give us a very practical guide on how to prepare for the storms, because we know they're coming, and I think you give us some wonderful thoughts here. Tell us a little bit about this idea of how we can prepare for the storms. You mean the Coliseum? Yes. In today's world, the storms come when you're not, when you can least expect of. Social media has just brought a whole new dimension of customer voice to companies. But I'll tell you, If you use it right, it's a great benefit. You learn so much about satisfying your customer's need. You are on point to respond to every customer issue.

You always have an offensive strategy as well as a defensive strategy. If some crank has some problem with a product that you don't think is right, you come back out of strong. But on the other hand, if you have a failure, the world is going to see it. the world is going to see it and you better be prepared to deal with it. So, got to be transparent. It just brings the word transparency back into folk because there are no secrets. And you better be ready to defend all of your actions and have a position on all of them

and be able to respond on a dime. On the other hand, you want to be data mining those customers like crazy to know their buying habits, what they're doing, how they're doing it. There's so much information available to you offensively to be able to design your product and services in such a way to take advantage of this transparent world. And you don't have to just think, I was at a PR conference last week talking about of the book and other things, but I listened to their presentations first, and we had companies from MasterCard, from GHealthcare, from Facebook and others,

the chief communications officer. You can't believe, Ken, the great forward look for these stuff they were doing to get data on their customer information. This is somebody who used to sit in a PR office. And now in a whole different world of tying their employees, they see their job as tying their employees

to their customers and communicating with both transparently so that everybody knows what the other's doing. It's remarkable what's available today to do that with. Folks, I think the entire book is worth Chapter 8, which is entitled Leadership 2.0. There's so much gold in it, but again, I'm going to focus on just one thought that just is wonderful. There's a direct quote I'm going to read to you. Jack and Susie Wright, truth and trust leadership is a mentality and a methodology.

Let me read that again. Truth and trust leadership is a mentality and a methodology. That is so good, Jack. Talk about what that statement really means to leaders. When you talk about truth and trust, it in the end is the distillation of 50 years of my work, 30 years of Susie's work,

of all reading leadership books of practicing leadership where you've got all the different attributes of leaders, passion, drive, all the things you talk about. But what it really comes down to is creating an atmosphere in your group, your little division, your startup, or your big company of truth and trust. Truth gets you to the right answer quickly. It allows you to act with speed, and you get everything is on the table.

But you don't get truth unless over time and constantly you are building. trust. And that trust muscle has to be flexed all the time. That means when people speak up or make mistakes, they don't get hit in the head. They know you have their back. That means always letting them know where they stand. They're never coming to work wondering if their boss is going to have an eye roll or a head fake and throw them off for the day because they know they can trust their boss. So you do things. You take care of them when they're down. And if you have to lay them off, they know why,

because you've been telling them for two years what they need to do to improve. And when you let them go, you let them go in a way that you love them as much or more on the way out as you did on the way in. That means good severance. That means time to get adjusted, all those things. So this company knows, and when you lay somebody off, who's done something bad. You don't say

Mary or Joe has gone on to spend more time with their family. They just wanted to do that. No, you say this is what Mary and Joe did. They broke our culture and they had to go. So it's always transparent. People feel you deal openly and as long as you get that

and you've got to keep flexing that muscle all the time to get this truth environment. But when you get it, you've got a company that just hums, I've seen it happen, and it's unbelievable. When I retired, we had polls every six months, blind polls and 25,000 employees. We had 92% of the people, 92%. Love the company, love the strategy, love where they were, love where they were going.

We're trying to get that in every private equity company I manage. We're doing that now at our school. Our customer there is our student, not the fact. And if the faculty doesn't deliver for the student, the faculty gets a poll every twice a course, and they know where they stand. And everything's transparent. Transparency leads to truth and trust. Boy, that's good. Since we're talking about a team and building trust in that team, I know you're a big sports fan. I am as well, Jack, and I know you study championship teams. And there's such a great correlation here to winning a business and winning in sports. So let's talk about the chapter building a wow team. So you talk specifically in the book, and I want to focus on the precise hiring checklist. You really detail it out. We've got to be precise in how we hire so we get the right people, not just talented people,

don't have the character, and so forth and so on. So teach us a little bit on how you used a precise hiring checklist. Let's assume that a couple of big things I go for. One is, are they smart, and have they demonstrated smarts over time? Do they have resiliency? Are they able to get up off the mat when they've been whacked? But then I got some other things that maybe other people don't always look for. I want to like them. I want to be able to say, would I like to have a beer or sit around and chat with this person?

I want to hang with them. Then I check the hell out of references. references are absolutely critical. And you know the problem with references is I've got a phone in my hand now. And if I were talking to somebody about somebody I want to hire, too often you have people and you've already made up your mind and you want them. You put the phone further and further from your ear. And before you know it, you're not listening anymore because you really want that person,

You're short a person of the organization. You need them to fill this job, and you want to do it desperately. And you've got the phone arm's length away, not listening. And that is a... So you've got to dig on with references. Listen. Go between the lines. Ask a thousand questions.

Because that's a big deal. That's where you're going from what you're going to do. For those of you that are listening to this conversation, and you feel stuck, you feel uncertain, I want to focus your attention right now. If you've never focused any harder than this, now's the time, if that's you. Because chapter 11 of this book is entitled, What Should I Do With My Life? Consequently, folks, this is the biggest question every human being in the world asks, in my opinion. It's about identity, significance, value.

And we talked about this at the start of the conversation with Jack. Jack, you and Susie talk about the area of destiny. This is a wonderful exercise. I actually had a mentor shared this with me in a different vernacular. a different term for it, but it helped me so much. And I see so many people who are walking around 30s, 40s, 50s having absolutely no idea why they're here on this planet and what they're supposed to do. And you all have a wonderful kind of a model for how we can figure out what we're supposed to do with our life. Talk about the area of destiny and how we figure it out.

Now, recognizing Ken, we always have a reservation when we talk about this to start with. Sure. That you may be in a spot where because of financial need, family, sicknesses and other things that you have to be where you are to make it to the next day and the next week or next month for a while. But you've got to put a time limit on those stuck things from that standpoint. But getting stuck is all about taking your two arms, one arm that just take you're right out here and you look hard at what am I damn good at? What am I uniquely good at?

how am I better than most people? Not the one in the many, but very good at. And then your left arm is what you really like to do, what turns you on, what fires you up, and where these two intersect,

you put your arms across, where these two intersects is what we call your area of destiny, doing something you're very good at, because that makes you feel good, and doing something that you really like. If you can find that combination, we talk on the books about a guy that worked for me at Hertz,

who was a great executive, but he really hated the office. He just hated it. And it was a terrific executive. But he was a runner. He was entering marathons all the time, going around the marathon. He found a job.

job at Equinox, the training company. And he went out, and now he's an executive vice president of Equinox, and he's with his people. I talk to him these days, and he talks about his hurt stays as in prison compared to the freedom and love he has now, because he's in his area of destiny. He loves running, he loves conditioning, and he's an EVP in Equinox. And he had a up from a very good career at hurts to go do that. They had the guts to do it. Wow.

That's so good. Jack, before we let you go, and we know your time is very valuable, our audience is made up of entrepreneurs, men and women who are leaders who love business. And we happen to believe that small business, men and women, businesses of all types, they are the heartbeat of our economy. These people are going hard. I'd like to just close by letting you just encourage them on what they're doing day to day, how much they matter to the American economy, how much they matter to the men and women that they serve that are their customers. Would you just encourage them as we let you go? I blood of America.

And what you do in creating jobs and what you do every day to make people's lives better is critical to the atmosphere of our events. and one of the great things about America that makes it unique is if you've got an idea there's somebody out there that will give you support if somebody will find the money, whether it be in a South by Southwest crowdsourcing for money or one spot or these other events, that's your job, even in a two-three-person operation, is to turn your people on.

It's psyched them about the mission. take them to new levels of joy, if you will. Make work fun. Making work fun and creating a better life for everybody will allow you to win the game. And just think of that old adage of the winner's locker room versus the losers' locker room. Where do you want to be? But every day you want to create that winner's locker room around your business or your group or your team in whatever size, in. So celebrate the hell out of every victory, enjoy the day, and just get better and better

every day. Jack, I want to thank you on behalf of our entire audience for how you have modeled the way in leadership, for how you have taught us, for how you have inspired us, and most importantly, for just spending time with us today. We really appreciate it. We know you're busy. This is a great book, and we are so grateful. It's been my highest honor to talk with you today. Thank you. And thank you so much. Love your show. I hope you enjoyed that, honestly, just a smidge as much as I did. It was so fun.

There were several people, by the way, behind the glass, taking you behind the scenes. The grand poobab of all things, Entree Leadership, Daniel Tarty himself showed up. Chris Mefford from our live events, who incidentally helped start the Entry Leadership podcast. And Blake Thompson, our executive producer of all things, Ramsey Solutions, as includes the Dave Ramsey Show, the third largest radio show in the country was here. So it was fun. It was like I was performing, Eric. I had an audience and I was on the phone with Jack Welch.

It was very, very fun. So here's what we're going to do. We're going to give away the 50 books. You know how we do it if you've been listening for any time at all. We just want you to tweet. Send a tweet and mentioned at Entree Leadership. That is our handle. At Entree Leadership.

Just mention us. Say something about the podcast. We prefer to be something nice. Don't lie to us, but say something nice. If we add value, tweet at Entree Leadership, and here's how you qualify. In that tweet, you must add the hashtag, Conversation That Matters. Hashtag, Conversation That Matters.

You do that. You're qualified to win. Eric, the producer, somehow digitally puts all you folks in a hat. He pulls out a name, and 50 names, rather, and then he sends the book. So there you go. That's all you have to do. And we are grateful for those of you who are engaged with us on Twitter. And by the way, this is a good way to segue into something I want to hear more from you on.

and that is your opinions. Who are some guests you would like us to interview? Is there some content that you would like to hear more of? Content you want to hear less of. Very simple. Email me. It comes to me and Eric the producer. Podcast at entreleadership.com.

Podcast at entreleadership.com. I kid you not. I read all of them. I want to hear from you. We want to serve you. So I need to know what you're feeling. We want to scratch that itch. Podcast at entreleadership.

All right, I told you the bonus conversation was with Kevin Eastman, vice president of basketball operations for the L.A. Clippers, really fun to get on the phone with this guy during the playoff series. Couldn't believe how responsive he was. And this guy could go on and on and on. What a student of personal growth he is. So even if you're not a basketball fan, trust me, don't fast forward. You're going to love this.

We talk leadership. We talk culture. We talk teamwork, excellence, and more. Here it is, Kevin Eastman, Vice President of the Los Angeles Clippers. Well, Kevin, it's so great to talk with you. You guys are in the middle of a series with the Spurs as we talk right now. Big win the other night for the Clippers. And I want to go right into a conversation about culture, because if any of our listeners know anything about basketball, sports in general, for a long time, the Clippers were kind of doormats of the NBA.

And now with you and Doc Rivers at the helm, an amazing story given the controversy that took place last season with your owner. It really is a wonderful study on culture. And so I want to talk about that for a minute. What could you tell us about the current state of the Clippers culture and how it's so very different from years past that allows this organization to be a winning organization? A couple of minutes may not do it justice, but to highlight or I like to talk in bullet points,

to us there's three things that are critical to any organization, whether it be a sporting organization or those within the context of the corporate world. And you mentioned one, that's culture. Number two is people and number three is belief. And I think what everyone has to do is to measure that culture people clash. You can have the right culture with the wrong people and they'll kill the organization. And the reverse is true. you can have the right people with the wrong culture.

I think that one has a chance because the right people will probably do what they can within the confines of their role within the organization to change that culture. But a fact of the matter is culture should be seen, heard, and felt if you really break it down. When I walk into a building and I see it's pristine and clean, that means there's probably some attention to detail. If I go into a building and I hear the words, please, and thank you, I believe that's a culture of respect. If I hear laughter when I go into that building, to me, that's a healthy environment. It's an enjoyable environment to be in. It's a comforting environment to be in.

But then on the reverse, if I hear something like, no, we don't do it that way, well, that automatically implies to me a culture of my way, a resistance to change. a fear of being able to express your thoughts. And those thoughts, they may even help turn that organization, but you're afraid to even put them out there. So what we've done with our culture is, at its core, four Cs, character, class, committed, and communication. Those are kind of the staples of our culture. But the biggest thing is when people walk in the building, they feel good and they want to be here.

And I think that gives you the start to have a good day. It gives you a start to fulfill your role. And a role is simply us is just executing the job you've been given. We all have different roles, but they're all important. And we said in our very first meeting when we took over, no one's job is more important than anyone else's. Some of the jobs are more visible than others. But just because you're invisible, you're also in by,

valuable. We need everybody in this office. We need everybody on that floor. We need everybody in this team. We need everybody in that locker room. Boy, that's good. Kevin, we have so many folks out there, entrepreneurs, small business owners, they've got a dream. They feel that something could be, then they know that it should be, and then they make it happen. And they are the engine of our economy. And when you care so much about something, you know this, it becomes so very very, very personal. And sometimes you just feel like, I don't have enough people paying attention to my product or my business or whatever I'm doing. And you tweeted something recently. And by the this is a great chance, folks, if you're listening in here very closely, write this down at

Kevin Eastman. Kevin tweeted, he said, those who shine under bright lights, and I'm paraphrasing, and play in front of thousands of fans, well, they've made that possible under the dim lights of practice and a work setting where no one's watching. And that's a wonderful thought. And I think sometimes we forget that it takes hours and hours of practice with no one in the gym, no one cheering you on, just personal dedication and discipline, Kevin, before you ever get the chance to play in front of the big crowd. And so from a business standpoint, would you encourage our leaders out there who feel very lonely, who feel like they're just chopping wood in the wilderness? First thing I would say is a story here that goes within the Qlippers organization.

When we took over, we had to figure out, okay, you know, there's three groupings. but people only pay attention to two. There's those who have bought in. We all want those. They've bought into the organization. They bought into the culture. There's those who are not in, right? They're not in.

They're never going to be in. They don't believe in it. Obviously, you've got to get rid of those. But it's that middle group that I think people don't pay attention to. And that's what I call the give in. They've given in, okay, Doc, what do you want me to do? I'll do it. Well, they're not bought in, so the givens can easily go into the nod-ins.

Now, I tell you this because as you start to eliminate people, other people shine. We had to get rid of the give-ins. We had to get rid of the not-ins. The three people we promoted within the organization here on the basketball operation side were all invisible. All people who the rest of the organization probably thought, how did they get that job? they got that job because they did their job. I'm going to say that one again because that's really important. They got their new job because they did their old job and they did it well.

And here's the thing that I think people have to know. Those who are in charge, the good leaders, the docs, the Steve Bombers, you know, whoever it is in the people who are listening's company, the best leaders, their vision is so good, they can see the invisible. They're the only ones in the organization that can see the invisible. We saw what they could do. So we knew that they were invisible at the time, but they were very valuable. So they're the ones that got the promotion.

And it's all about preparing yourself. You know, everyone who wants to advance in their career, you have to already see yourself there. think how that position thinks. My definition of preparation is be there before you get there. Be there before you get there. Those in sales are going to make a really pressure-packed sales call tomorrow. I would hope they did what Kevin Garnett did every day of his life when he was with the Celtics. He went in every day and worked on his craft.

Even though he was one of the best, he's going to be a Hall of Famer. every single day he went in and worked on his shot, his conditioning, his strength, those types of things. Same thing has to apply. Like Kevin would probably say, what do you mean they don't practice their sales presentation every day? Are they crazy? That's their bread and butter. So be there before you even get into that thing.

Already anticipate. And to the people that you're talking about in the original question, here's here's my big thing we all have choices right we all have choices those people that you're talking about they can choose to to wallow in their pity or they can choose to keep on grinding you know keep on grinding uh keep on showing people uh the consistency of your performance of your not only your work ethic but your work effort i want to switch to leaders because you really are passionate about leaders what you and brend and sir who was on our podcast recently are doing with coaching you is just really exciting and it's born out of your passion to

help coaches but it's really about leadership and so we have a lot of leaders listening in here Kevin and if I could get you to just share one thing this is an unfair question for you because you got so much in your head but if you were going to just share one thing with leaders all across America from your heart and to encourage them what would that top of mind response be well it's a long sentence, be who you are at your core. You can't be Jack Wells. You can't be Steve Baum, you can't be Doc Rivers. And to remember that leadership is a position of power, so you can't abuse it. And leadership is also a position of responsibility. So you really have to take that seriously. Because on the way up, it's all about you. But once you're up there, it's all about

them. And you have to make that switch because if you are a leader, that implies there are followers or employees. And let's say, Ken, you're the leader, right? And I'm your employee. Well, my eyes and ears will tell me whether I'm going to follow you. Not your title. My eyes and ears will tell me whether I will follow you. And by that, I mean, I'm going to see if your actions match your words, and if your words match your actions, because that's what's going to have me come in every single day and follow you. And then one last thing I'm going to throw out, and this is to kind of everybody.

And the reason I'm throwing it out is because I kick myself in the butt every day saying, why didn't I have this philosophy when I was younger? I might have been able to get where I've gotten maybe a tad faster. I'm comfortable with how I've gotten here, and it's the word choice. Okay. And the other word is fear. And actually, I'm just going to concentrate on fear because we've got to wrap up here. But a lot of people fear failure, right? That's why they don't try. Even though it's people who you were saying some advice, they're stuck, they can't seem to move up. And I'm just going to simply say this, because I fell into this trap. And I don't want anyone else to fall into this, especially your younger listeners. If you fear the consequence of failure, I would ask everyone to, out there to please also give equal fear to the consequence of never trying. Because what happens if it works? What happens? Like I was scared to death to get into the NBA. Holy heck, I got to deal with the best players in the whole world. I know how demanding they are. Like, you better be right

or you may lose them for two months. So I feared that coming in. But I said to myself, no, I'm going to give this a try because I'm curious about the level. I need to see if the level likes me and if I like the level. And then at that point I'll make my decision. Or the game will tell me, uh-uh, you ain't good enough, you're out. And I'm fine with that. But what if I never tried? I wouldn't, I wouldn't be here. I wouldn't have been able to meet the people I've met to be able to experience the things I've experienced, to be able to grow, to be able to develop, to be able to improve because of the environments and the people I've been in and around. So I just encourage people, yeah, it's tough. Fear is, it's a tough opponent, man. It's hard to beat. But

look at it the other way. What if you tried and it worked? Because everyone who's successful, they were afraid too. They were afraid. Doc Rivers has fear. It's a healthy fear. It's a motivating fear. It's not a paralyzing fear, but there's fear. Steve Bomber, I got to believe that Microsoft had some fear on some days. It's just part of the makeup of success. That's so good. All right, super fast. I'm going to put you on the spot. I love to ask this question of high achievers, and Kevin, you are certainly that, and I love how coaches always respond to this. But personally, right now, your VP of Basketball Operations with the Clippers, you're going fast and hard at the top level of What are you doing right now to grow as a leader?

Or what's an area where you are really focusing in on to grow yourself? I find two hours every single day to read. And people will say, well, how can you find that time? And I say, well, I don't find it. I make it because people have not found time since time existed. That's right. Right? So you've got to make it.

That's one of the myths of success. We've been told, find the time to get things done. No, no, no, no, you'll never find it. The myth is finding it, that the reality is you've got to make it. So I choose to read every single day. And I'm talking about every day over the last 15 years. And I think high achievers are on a constant seek and find mission, right? Seek and find new information.

Seek and find new ways to do things. Seek and find ways they can develop. But that's where most people stop. The most successful people, they take it to the next step. And this will I encourage your listeners to do. Once you seek and find and you have all those notes and you've highlighted all those books, a lot of people just put them in the file and they never go back to them again. Once you seek and then you have found, okay, then you've got to do the most important step.

Think and apply. think about what you learned today and then see what fits you. Not everything I said today will fit everyone. That's fine. If nothing else, maybe it's stimulated your thinking to go in a different direction. But the fact of the matter is, seek and find and then immediately think and apply. And I think what people will find out is all the things they've absorbed during the day, they can really now utilize those things rather than just store them.

Everybody just stores their knowledge. The best use their knowledge. So good. He is Kevin Eastman. I'm telling you, folks, he's a great follow on Twitter at Kevin Eastman. Also, follow what they're doing. He and Brendan, sir, if you enjoyed that conversation, I know many of you did, at coaching you,

another great opportunity to grow as a leader. Kevin, I know that you're crazy busy. You're in a battle with the spur. So I'm a Clipper fan right now, and so we're really excited about what you're doing to help leaders. We appreciate you hanging out with us. We're all better for it, and we're rooting for you as you continue to lead an NBA organization. Thanks for hanging out. No, players really.

Well, that was Kevin Eastman. Again, he's a great follow on Twitter. I know I mentioned that in the conversation, but check him out. He and Jack Welch, by the way, on Twitter. Just search Jack Welch, Kevin Eastman, on Twitter. And I think you'll be better if you follow these guys. They don't put out a bunch of nonsense. Kevin Eastman in particular, it's like a accessory every day.

He's putting it out minus the picture. So check him out on Twitter. Hey, folks, I want to thank Jack Welch and his wife, Susie, and their publisher for providing the books. That is a great treat for us to be able to provide to you. And I want to thank Kevin Easton for taking time out of his busy schedule to hang out with us. I know I'm better for it.

I certainly suspect that you are as well. And as always, on behalf of Eric the producer and everyone on the Entree leadership team, Thank you so much for listening. We'll talk with you again very soon.