EntreLeadership - Ask a Coach: I Can’t Find Quality Hires

Starting point is 00:00:05 How do you find qualified people to work for you and actually get them to stick around? Well, that's the challenge salon owner Andrea is facing. And today, Entree Leadership's head coach John Falcons is walking Andrea through what she can do to attract the right people, reduce turnover, and build a healthier, more sustainable team. Let's get to it. Okay, we've got Andrea from Boone, North Carolina. Andrea, how are you? So good, John. How are you?

Starting point is 00:00:34 Fantastic. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your business and what your question is? Absolutely. So I own a boutique nail salon in St. Louis, Missouri. I have owned it for the past two years. We've done about $400,000 in revenue last year, and we are now currently up to about 12 employees. So yeah, it's been really fun. Awesome.

Starting point is 00:00:57 And what's your question today? My question for you is, is there something I can do to a attract qualified people to our salon and help them stay over time. And if you want, John, I can give you a little bit of context of some of the challenges we faced. Yeah, go ahead. Absolutely. So when we first took over, there wasn't really a good recruiting pipeline in place. Once I took over, I started going to nail schools, you know, doing face-to-face with people,

Starting point is 00:01:28 attending career fairs. We did a little bit on social media. But what we found was when we quickly realized we had two big problems. of all, we weren't always attracting the kind of people that were going to resonate with how we do business, not just in terms of just doing natural nails, but really in terms of, you know, character, having people that we're going to, you know, say they were going to show up and actually show up. We also quickly realized that we, that they're just, we weren't attracting as many people

Starting point is 00:01:55 as we needed either. And so we've had an issue with retention and we've had an issue finding enough of the right people. Well, let me just say right off the bat, hiring is tough. That's, you know, we face it too. We get thousands and thousands of applicants every year. You know, we're this big business. But I want you to hear me say there's no magic wand. I absolutely will give you some of our best practices, but this is a hard subject. So let me get that out of the way, Andrea. Yes. But here's the thing. You have to look at it like a marketing issue. You've, you've, you've, You've got to get so many eyeballs on the listings.

Starting point is 00:02:35 You've got to convert so many people to an actual interview. And then in the interview, you've got to get them to take the next step. And so when I hear your problem about, you know, getting the right people and enough people, we kind of attacked that two different ways. I understand you've had some people that didn't exactly fit the mold, right? But that's more the quality issue than it is the quantity issue. talk about the quality issue. You've got to be super upfront about your values and what you're looking for. And let me say that first touch point with those people needs to be quick.

Starting point is 00:03:13 Don't invest a lot of your time because you've got to sift through a lot of people fast to get to the ones that you want. But make sure you're very upfront. Are you doing the hiring yourself or do you have a recruiter that's helping you? So I do what I do the recruiting myself and then what I do is I give my team leads in the salon. They're the ones that will actually do a skills test. And then we have a pretty extensive interview list where we have, we've kind of started asking some more pointed questions to really, like you said, kind of sips through people a little bit more.

Starting point is 00:03:44 Would you say on the sifting through people, is that after the skills test? We will typically do the sit down interview first and then we will do a skills test after. Okay. Because if there's, you know, if there's clearly an issue where, you know, they've had a bunch of jobs that they've left or there's. It's just they're not going to be a fit for us. We want to know that pretty soon. Yeah, absolutely. So I think that's the right way to do it. I would just turn the heat up on that and get really clear on what you're looking for, the character fit, and don't hold back,

Starting point is 00:04:13 and only spend a little bit of time because you do have to work through a lot of applicants. Then do the skills test after you do that. So that should help you with the quality issue. It doesn't help you with the quantity issue. So you still have to look at that, that, that, quantity issue as a marketing problem to solve. Now, before you said you were going to nail schools and different things, are you still doing that or what are you doing now? Yeah. So we've really kind of, I love how you talked about thinking about it as a marketing problem because what we've done is we've tried to kind of expand our channels. So we have, we've started actively doing more job listings on multiple platforms. We've starting to get involved in like Facebook groups for local, you know,

Starting point is 00:04:57 nail technicians that might be looking for a settier job with a more supportive team. We have started an internship program. What we've realized is with a lot of these Gen Z applicants that we're getting, it's sometimes hard for them to go straight from the applicant interview right into the job interview. And it helps us in two ways. It helps us evaluate them, be like, okay, well, you were supposed to come in for this internship. Did you show up? And it helps them get more of a feel for would I actually enjoy working here in this environment? Because we aren't a traditional nail salon. So, yeah, we've really tried to kind of expand some of our avenues. We have a dedicated hiring kind of channel on Instagram where we talk about,

Starting point is 00:05:35 you know, behind the scenes what's going on in our salon, why it's a fun place to work. It isn't as active as I'd like it to be, but we've started that. So those are kind of some of the things that we've tried. Okay. How many folks are you looking for? You say you've got about 12 now over the next year. How many do you want to add? So we expect, just because recidivism in our industry can be very difficult. We expect, you know, we probably lose one or two people every six to eight months. And so with that in mind, we will typically, I would probably want to bring on, honestly, we're looking for another nine people. Oh, wow. Because we're trying to expand more into evening hours. And we're currently close on Mondays and Tuesdays.

Starting point is 00:06:13 Okay. So, yeah, we're really trying to increase our numbers. What are they telling you about why they're leaving? You know, I've heard a lot of, it runs the gamut. I've heard, you know, again, we are a niche business. We only do natural nails. We don't do acrylics. We don't do a whole lot with nail art. Sometimes people just get bored.

Starting point is 00:06:32 Sometimes, and this tends, you know, not to bash Gen Z, but like it tends to be something we've noticed with some of our younger applicants is they run into an issue. They don't, well, they won't tell management that they're not satisfied with their schedule, even though we ask them. Or they won't say, you know, this particular thing isn't working for me. Let's work through it. They'll just say, ah, I'm done. I'm going to leave now. Yeah. And so I would say those two are.

Starting point is 00:06:55 are probably the top reasons why people choose to leave. I get that. And chick-fil-a, actually, completely different industry, but chick-fil-a comes to mind because I remember Dan Kathy talking about, they are a multi-billion-dollar company run by an army of a quarter of a million teenagers. How do they do that? How do they staff all of those locations? And so when I hear you talking about Gen Z, I get what.

Starting point is 00:07:25 what you're saying, we have a lot of Gen Z people that work here too, and there tends to be too kind, the kind that are flaky and the kind that are bought in. And so I'm curious, you know, you're talking about the natural nail salon thing, which, just to be clear, I know nothing about any of that, okay? But my question is, how much do you communicate why you're a natural nail salon? And what's the difference between the ones that use all the chemicals and, like, what's the mission behind your salon and how is that different? And what are they actually joining? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:08:00 So we in our interview process, we talk about how we are in the business of transforming people. We love seeing women come in, even with nails that are maybe chipped or whatever. And they get this beautiful transformational experience. It brightens their day and they get to talk with someone that actually cares about them, cares about the pressure that's on their nails,

Starting point is 00:08:21 cares about the temperature of the towels that we use. So we sell this first informers as we don't do nails. We are a, we transform lives through, you know, making people feel beautiful. The second part of that, John, is, you know, we will also talk about some key ways that we're different from the industry. We don't do tips. Instead, we offer commissions. We, everyone is a W-2 employee. We don't rent booze.

Starting point is 00:08:46 All of your materials are provided. We have an actual career structure. So if you want to move up and eventually own your own salon. on, we offer, you know, you can become a team lead, a junior team lead, a trainer, so that you can move up in our business. So we try to be very upfront in the interview process about who we are as a company and really kind of let that, give them an accurate impression of whether this is something that there is going to work for that. Yeah. Yeah. I love that you're able to answer that question so well. I'm curious, how much do they hear that from you directly? How much time

Starting point is 00:09:24 do you spend in contact with these techs on the floor at the salon? That's a great question. So actually, as of this past week, I just hired a salon director. So I managed this. This is key. I should have mentioned this to you before, John. I apologize. I actually run the business remote.

Starting point is 00:09:40 So like I said, this business is in St. Louis. I'm in Boone. And so what I have been doing is kind of traveling back and forth six weeks in close contact with one of my team leads. But now we have a salon director who is really going to be responsible for, for infusing the team with this specific culture that we both now, you know, we have in mind, where we're not just, you know, we're not just doing nails again. We're transforming lives. And so she's really going to be boots on the ground when it comes to culture. She's also really

Starting point is 00:10:10 going to be boots on the ground when it comes to accountability for, you know, we have goals, you know, quarterly goals that we want to hit for rebooking, for average ticket value, you know, we want to grow in our margins. So we just hired her to answer your question. And from now on she's going to be the ones that is, you know, holding team meetings, doing all the recruiting, and she's going to be the single touch point between recruiting and interviewing and then onboarding. Okay, that is a big difference. And I can see why it's been challenging to, to transmit that heart level commitment and the why and the mission remotely. That's tough to do. But now you've got somebody on the ground. What gives you confidence that she kind of embodies those values and really

Starting point is 00:10:52 gets it like you do for her to be able to spread that through the team. Fantastic question. So we had a pretty lengthy interview process with her over a period of two pretty long sessions. I asked her specific questions about her experience coaching people, what that success looks like. We played through scenarios of like, hey, you know, maybe we have someone on the team that maybe isn't bought into this whole, I need to raise my average ticket idea. How would you coach them? What would that approach be? And also, you know, because I did not hire from within my very tight-knit team, we also had very honest conversations about what would your approach be coming on to a team that's as tight-knit as this, having the experience that they do, and, you know,

Starting point is 00:11:39 coming on with your own ideas, how are you going to balance that? How are you going to approach this team of women? Good question. And so we spent a long time asking questions like that. And I was really impressed. I'll be honest, it really was such a godsend to find her, to find someone that not only I felt like embodied our core values, you know, the core values that I had put together with my team leads, but also had some really good practical experience in recruiting, in coaching people, and really just loves to see people thrive.

Starting point is 00:12:12 So that's, yeah, that's kind of my answer to that. We'll get right back to our episode, but first, as your business grows, everything gets more complex. There was a time when we had too many disconnected systems and not enough visibility across the business. We wasted time chasing information instead of making decisions. That's why we got NetSuite. NetSuite brings your financials, inventory, CRM, and more together in one place. More than 44,000 businesses run on NetSuite, including Ramsey Solutions. and now they're taking the next step with NetSuite Next, making it easier to put AI to work across your entire business. NetSuite Next automates routine work like following up on overdue accounts,

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Starting point is 00:13:45 You need to be, what's your plan on frequency of being there and frequencies of meeting with this new leader? Yes. So our plan, I'm going to be FaceTiming with her probably. So I'll be, I'm actually, I'm in town in St. Louis right now. I will be in town through Saturday. I'm not walking her through kind of how to do the meetings, introducing her to all the teammates one-on-one. So that's been going pretty well. My plan for the next two weeks is for us to have probably daily FaceTime conversations.

Starting point is 00:14:14 hey, what does this look like? You know, how is it with this kind of, this person that's kind of really struggling with getting used to you being in leadership? What is that looking like? We have also sat down and created a collaborative 90 day plan. So we have a 30 day, 60 day, 90 day plan for success, not just revolving around, you know, again,

Starting point is 00:14:33 rebooking rates, average ticket rates, but really instilling culture, gaining people's trust. What does that look like? And so I, and then, like I said, we're going to be in touch a lot, probably at least for these next two weeks. And then I expect at least once a week every week. Okay, good. And how often can you be there on site?

Starting point is 00:14:52 I'll be honest with you, John. I'm really struggling with some pretty severe burnout. So if I can just be here once a month, ideally it would be probably eight weeks. Okay. Because I'm just, yeah, I'm at that point where I need to figure out some more balance in my life. Okay. Well, that's probably a conversation for another day, but probably a good conversation to have. Something that I want to mention to you is if you haven't come across this, we have a resource

Starting point is 00:15:17 called our mission mapper. And I think it would be really helpful to you to sit down with her and go through that and make sure you're both on the same page with the Entree Leadership Mission Mapper because I understand what you're saying about the metrics of the business, the numbers of the business, but the solve for people staying, even young people, is for them to get bought into the mission. And Gen Z, the ones that are bought in will stick. And so that heart transfer has got to happen. And this person can do it, but they got to be able to complete your sentences.

Starting point is 00:15:52 They got to be able to say it exactly like you would say it. And so I love your intentionality on the front end. We'll get you the mission mapper. I think that would be really helpful to you. Just continue to lean in and, you know, lean in and check in. And I think you're setting that team member up, that leader. the new leader that you have for success. You mentioned earlier making, ensuring essentially that you are accurately communicating your

Starting point is 00:16:21 core values and kind of testing the waters with the interviewee to see if they, you know, they would, it's something that they can buy into. So I'm curious, like specifically what that would look like. So I'll give you some examples of some of our core values. So we talk about heart of service. We want people to be proactive about like looking for ways to serve their team and their clients. We talk about ownership.

Starting point is 00:16:40 You know, owning your mistakes, owning what went well. We talk about growth mindset. So we have, I don't know, we have some questions that I think are kind of geared toward asking people that. But what would you recommend? Well, great that you have them. I would give them to them. I would somewhere in a process, just give them the list. And then somewhere in the interview process, I would ask them, hey, what did you think of our core values?

Starting point is 00:17:05 How did they land with you? And did one of them jump off the page at you? and then just sit back. You know, I like to say, God gave us two ears in one mouth. Interviews are times to use the two ears. Listen twice as much as you say. Don't ask yes or no questions.

Starting point is 00:17:22 Ask those open-ended questions. And if you can make people comfortable and get them talking, a lot of times they will tell you what they need to, what you need to know. They will tell you what you need to know. We talk about thoroughbreds and don't want to hire don't. You don't want to hire don't.

Starting point is 00:17:40 you want to hire thoroughbreds. If you'll just let them talk long enough, they'll out themselves as a thoroughbred or a donkey. And so get them going. And then, you know, if they talk a little bit and you feel like there's one of your core values that is particularly, I don't know, nuanced or important to you, when they're done, go a little deeper.

Starting point is 00:18:02 Say, well, what did you think of this one? And if they're like, oh, I didn't notice that one or, you know, or in this whole exercise, they're like, oh yeah, I didn't get a time to read those. You know, I didn't take a chance to read those. That's a signal, right? That's a problem. Around here, I usually ask, hey, you know, one of our core values is righteous living.

Starting point is 00:18:23 And I say, did you notice that? And how's that land with you? You know, what did you think of that? And get them talking. And if they're kind of like, yeah, I mean, it seems fine. Or like, oh, man, I've been working in a cesspool. And I really want to work someplace where. you know, the standard is really high.

Starting point is 00:18:41 There's no gossip. And I'm with good people. That just is a tell. Yeah. That, you know, oh, this person's a fit for my mission. This is a person that values what I value. That's what you want to draw out of them. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:56 Yeah. I like that idea of, yeah, just getting them talking and letting them, yeah, letting them tell you, essentially. Yeah, I like that. That's great. Is the, I know I'm bringing something up that you mentioned before. Or is the burnout something that you want to address at some point? Oh, oh, yes.

Starting point is 00:19:13 Oh, yeah. No, we are actively addressing it. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. A big part of it for me is going, I am hopeful, cautiously hopeful, as I am intentionally onboarding this manager, a lot of the daily to-does that I'm having to do from far away are going to be taken off my plate.

Starting point is 00:19:38 Okay. Obviously, you know, I'm under, you know, I like to think I'm a pretty practical person. It's not going to be immediate. I am getting, yeah, I anticipate, you know, there's going to be things that I have to, I'm going to have to step back in. 100% that's part of ownership. But I'm also trying to be intentional more in my personal life of being like, okay, we have set boundaries. We're not answering the phone after 5 p.m.

Starting point is 00:20:00 We're not doing emails after 5 p.m. We're actually going to take an entire Sabbath and really rest and really stop. We're going to find some other areas, other things. that I actually enjoy doing and not just get sucked into what I can do for my business and reading all the business books and stuff. So we're trying to find some balance in some of those other areas of life. So, but yeah, it's a process. It is, I'll offer you one thing. Somebody once said, the antidote to burnout isn't rest, it's wholeheartedness.

Starting point is 00:20:32 Oh, interesting. And what they mean by that is, it's not just working hard that burns us out. Yeah. It's doing things that we feel like are disconnected from our why. Yeah. So, you know, if your why is that transformational piece, that thing that you do for for ladies that come into your salon and you see them light up and that sparkle in their eye and that's the fuel in your fire, you've got to reconnect with that. You've got to get that back in the center of, you know, your, you're, you're, you're

Starting point is 00:21:08 world because I suspect in our quick conversation, the calls on Sunday, the things that spill over are probably the admin things, the stuff that you don't want to be doing. It's not the fuel in your fire. Is that right? Yeah, that is right. Yeah. And honestly, John, like the fuel in my fire for me is setting my teams up for success. And because I think, you know, it's been, I love, like, I love that they're able to provide the transformational like services. I love that. It's beautiful. Well, for me, it's helping teams understand how to do that better and get better at doing that themselves. Okay.

Starting point is 00:21:43 So that for me is what's really beautiful. And I think, yeah, I think, I mean, I'll be honest with you, it's been a rough two years of learning the ropes of business ownership. I think for me, I'm really realizing there are some people on my team that don't embody the core values in a way that might be critical. So we'll see. I think there might be some, yeah, there might be. might be some changes coming.

Starting point is 00:22:09 Yeah, and when the fuel in your fire is orchestrating a high-performing team and setting them up to win and you've got donkeys in that mix, that's got to drive you crazy. I think, yeah, I think you're absolutely right, John. I think what I'm realizing is, you know, there's a deep sense of frustration for me because, you know, sometimes I'm, you know, I am the ideas person. I'm like, hey, you know, we need to change this. We got to increase our margins. we got a, you know, not just the hiring issue, you know, obviously we have other problems.

Starting point is 00:22:41 Like, you know, we want, we want to grow. I want this team to be one that thrives together, not just financially, but emotionally. We have to create these support systems. We have to better serve our clients. There's a lot of competition out there. How are we going to differentiate ourselves? And I think what sometimes what I'm coming in, what I'm running into is there isn't always a growth mindset on, not all, but on some of the ladies on my team. Yeah. And we're, yeah, We're going to be prayerful and strategic about next steps. I'm really excited about the salon director that I have found. She's really, she's someone that has the vision, and I feel very aligned with her,

Starting point is 00:23:19 and I'm very, very grateful for that. But it might mean some changes on my team, and that might need to be what happens. Yeah, and I should have said this to you before. This isn't a short-term fix. This is a long-term play for hiring and retention. Become the best salon. in town to work for. And having donkeys on your team ain't that.

Starting point is 00:23:43 Yeah. They're good-hearted donkeys, but there's some, yeah, there's some, there's some struggles. But donkeys nonetheless. And so if you develop the reputation, again, this is long term, but if you develop the reputation of this is the best salon in town to work for, the word will get out. And people will want to be on that team. And people will want to earn commissions. and work with people that they love

Starting point is 00:24:08 and be led by somebody that they love. And so lean into that culture piece too. I know that's not short term and like, you know, what question do I ask? But that will pay dividends over time. Yeah, we are figuring it out one step at a time. Andrea, we're all figuring it out. Thanks for joining us.

Starting point is 00:24:30 Amen. Thank you, John. Thanks for joining us today. Take care. Appreciate it. Thank you. If you want the right people to join your team and stick around, they've got to believe in what your business stands for. As the leader, it's your job to constantly share the mission, reinforce your core values,

Starting point is 00:24:47 and hire people who don't just have the right skills, but who are actually bought in to the purpose behind the work. That's how you build the kind of team great people want to be part of. If this is something you're struggling with, go ahead and connect with one of our Entree leadership business coaches. They've helped thousands of business owners work through challenges just like this. And they'll help you get clarity on your next step so you can make the right decision for your business and move forward with confidence. We'll leave a link in the description so you can schedule your free 30-minute call with a coach. If you've enjoyed this episode, be sure to like, share, and subscribe. for more real world business content.

Starting point is 00:25:32 I'm your host, Dave Ramsey, and this is OnTrey Leadership.

EntreLeadership - Ask a Coach: I Can’t Find Quality Hires

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