EntreLeadership - Finding Good Talent During a Labor Crisis with Mike Rowe

Episode Date: April 24, 2023

Today, we’ll hear from: •      A business owner who’s having difficulty finding new team members who are qualified for the job •      Mike Rowe as he shares his thoughts on America’s labor crisis •      A food truck owner who’s struggling to find dependable and competent team members •      A business owner who’s wondering where to find thoroughbreds for her cleaning company so she can spend more time with her family and working on her business •      A business owner who’s trying to decide on the next best hire for his lawn care company Links mentioned in this episode: •      The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast •      Register for America’s Labor Crisis Livestream: https://bit.ly/3UMfqc8 •      Mike Rowe’s website: https://bit.ly/41vOejV •      Men Without Work by Dr. Nicholas Eberstadt: https://bit.ly/3UDK9bd •      The Comfort Crisis by Michael Easter: https://bit.ly/419c7hH •      Start your free trial of EntreLeadership Elite: https://bit.ly/3tI2fN8 •      Delegation quick read by Dave Ramsey: https://bit.ly/3UAKpYw •      Learn more about EntreLeadership’s Stages of Business: http://bit.ly/3yvdavv •      Have a question for The EntreLeadership Podcast? Leave a voicemail at 844.944.1070, or submit your question for a chance to be on the show with Dave Ramsey: https://www.entreleadership.com/ask   Take our listener survey and let us know what you think about The EntreLeadership Podcast being a caller-driven show. When you do, you’ll be entered to win a $100 gift card: http://bit.ly/40dV9hf Start growing in business and leadership with the EntreLeadership Newsletter. Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://bit.ly/3IRWnsL Support our sponsors: •      Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital •      NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre •      BELAY: https://bit.ly/351P9AE •      Payority: https://bit.ly/3IaA5SK •      Staples: https://staplesbusinessadvantage.com/ramsey Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: •      EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit •      EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: •      Elite: https://bit.ly/3tI2fN8 •      Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups •      Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching •      Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices: https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree Leadership Podcast, where I take calls from leaders and small business owners like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host with over 30 years of experience in the trenches, which gives you guys a bunch of problems because I don't suffer fools much. I get to the point. And I'm here doing this every day like you're doing it every day, so we don't have time to wait. we've got to just help you. If you want to join us, you can do so by calling in. The phone number is 844-9-4-1070. We'd love to have you.

I love helping small business people. You're my heroes. Leadership is one of my favorite subjects. 844-944-1070. You'll leave a voicemail, and then they'll set you up and, you know, a time to call so you can be part of this podcast. Of course, we don't tell you what to say. We just want to find out what you're going to talk about. So there you go.

And you can fill out the forum at entreleadership.com slash ask. That'll accomplish exactly the same task. Entreeleadership.com slash ask. A little bit later in this particular episode of the Entree Leadership podcast, my friend Micro from Dirty Jobs is going to join us and help me announce a thing that he and I are going to be doing together, dealing with America's labor crisis. And, oh, boy, do we have a crisis on labor in America?

So we're going to be talking about it and talking about a thing we're going to do together that you're going to want to see, you're going to want to be a part of for sure. One of my favorite guys on the planet these days. So be sure to check it out. Meantime, Anthony is with us. Anthony is in Syracuse, New York. Hey, Anthony, welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast.

Hey, Dave, thanks for taking the call. Sure. How can I help? I own a residential remodeling company, and we currently have nine team members, including myself. We did about $1.2 million in sales last year, and currently our companies having difficulty finding new team members that qualify for the trade. How do I factor training new hires into our budget and our timeline?

Difficult. There's a lot of people struggling with exactly the same thing, finding team members in almost any situation today. So I was talking about with Mike Rowe a minute ago. We're going to discuss some of that. But in an event we're going to do. But in the meantime, how do we help you do that? Just to tell you, everybody's facing that. Ramsey is facing that. We're finding the right people, getting them in the right seats on the bus, as Jim Collins says, getting the wrong ones off the bus and so on. It's a constant flow and a constant thing. Now, what we look at is two things when we're bringing someone on. We look at what is the actual cash outlay? What checks do I have to write as a result of this person being here and I'm training them? For instance, in your case,

maybe you have to set them up with a set of tools. Okay? So you've got some tool expense to put another person on the job because you can't put them out there with no tools. Or maybe not. I don't know. But, I mean, I'm sure there's something. You know, I've got to add them to our insurance.

I've got to add them to our 401K plan. I've got to, you know, and so there's going to be real actual dollars leaving my pocket. then there's the other type of dollars that leave our pocket that aren't actually cash expenditures, but it's more what we would call opportunity cost. And what that means is they're taking up space. Like in our case, you know, if I put someone into a workstation inside Ramsey, I'm paying for that with that building, right? That many square feet, I got to cover the rent for that area that their little butt is sitting in.

In your case, maybe you, if you add five people, you've got to, to add a truck to haul them to the job site. I don't know, right? But really, you didn't buy them a truck, but you had to buy a truck because you were growing. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, so, like, when we hire, like, a new person in the field that doesn't know anything, they can basically show up to the job, and we can help them,

help them complete the task and show them how to do things. So it doesn't really cost much besides paying them, but then at the same time they don't It does cost you because the guy showing them how to do something is working at one-quarter speed. Yeah. Correct. If you left him alone, he didn't have to stop and train somebody. He could have done three or four times more work. Training takes more time than doing the work, agreed?

Yes, sir. And so that's not a cash outlay, but you've got a loss in productivity with your training guy that otherwise would have been working because you don't have people that just do training. You got a guy that knows how to do three different types of trades. and he's in there doing those trades in this remodel. And because he's got to stop and show somebody who's never wired a plug or, you know, never driven a nail how to do it, or, you know, how to properly, you know, cut a piece of trim and work it into the corner, right?

You know, miter it. And so, you know, he's got to stop and show somebody else how to do it. It slows him down. That's what I mean by, it's not a cash outlay, but it is a cost because it slows things down. So what I would do is attempt both. I kind of would make two columns. I'm hiring somebody. What do I actually have to write checks for, new tools, whatever it is, insurance, you know, and the day they start, they cost me X number of dollars, okay?

In our case, we buy them a computer, okay? So it costs me a computer, that kind of stuff. So then the second column is, what are they costing me in lost productivity because we have to slow down to train them? And so you say, all right, I've got one of my top guys here who's going to be working at a half speed for three weeks. So that's going to cost me about X. And you just kind of – but that's not really something you have to put in your budget. You've just got to plan your job's a little different, and the job's going to take a little longer or require more other skilled team members because one of your guys is slowing down to train somebody. So it's not really like a budget.

It's not a budget line item. It just changes the structure of how that job gets accomplished until that newbie gets trained up. Is that logical? What I not have a, because I was looking at having a budget line for training. So like, say, do you pay somebody to train them? Technically, yeah, because the person is slowing down to help that person. I know, but you're not writing a check. No.

So how is that a budget line? It's just regular cost of labor then. Yeah, it's just, you know, you're refactoring your job estimate while that trainee is on that job, because you've got some lost productivity. But it's not technically a job line. Now, what I do like to do is add all of those things up occasionally because we know around here, when we hire somebody and we put their butt in a seat, by the time they've been here six months,

we've put about $100,000 in them to get them in the door and get them in the seat. We know that. So when someone leaves after they've been here for a year, we talk about, you know, we've lost 100 grand on them. because for the first six months, I don't really do any work that's of any value anyway, hardly. I mean, it takes a little while to get people moving it, whatever they do. So that's what you're focusing on. You look at your turnover cost is what that's for.

But to run your budget, you know, you're running a job estimate at a little different speed than if there wasn't a trainee on the job that slowing the job down. And so that changes the job budget a little bit, but it's not technically a training line item unless you're paying cash to someone to do the training. And then it would be a budget line item to do that. But we don't do that here. You know, we're just pulling a leader up beside them, mentoring them, disciplining them, someone in the discipline,

showing them how to do that. And, of course, we've got HR people that are a line item, but they're not a line item for training. They're onboarding people because, you know, you have to show people where the bathroom is. You can show them how to get signed in for all the different insurances, all the junk, and get people onboarded. and that takes a little bit of time.

And we actually have to pay payroll to cause that to happen at our size. But where there's nine or ten of you, Anthony, by the way, you're in a great business. Remodeling, it's an excuse to bail money. I mean, it's just, if you will simply show up on time, do the work on time in high quality, you can charge almost anything. and you have almost no competition because no one shows up on time, does high quality work on time. Show up when you say you're going to show up. Don't dramatically overcharge.

Don't rip people off. Tell the truth. Stay on the job until the freaking job is done. Do quality work. And you won't be able to beat customers off with a stick. I mean, you're going to make, you know, your million two is going to be 2.4 before you know it. I know remodeling guys who make a lot more than home builders make because they run, because that, because you've got to deal with homeowners when you're doing this stuff.

It's a process, man, but you have really got a great business at a million two. You're kicking it. Way to go. Thanks for being in the entree leadership audience. We are honored to serve people just exactly like you. That's a good, man, he's got it going. That's a sweet time in business right there. 10 people. He's kicking it, man. He's at that Pathfinder Trailblazer stage. He's got it going.

This is what's happening. The five stages of business. Y'all are going to learn about those if you hang out with us in Entry Leadership Elite. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast segment two. We're so glad you're with us. Thanks for hanging out. So one of my favorite podcasts I listen to is a guy who's become a friend, Mike Rowe. He let me come on the podcast one time. The ratings went down dramatically. He hasn't spoken to me since. But we did a long form with him and America's famous dirty jobs guy.

And he and I have done several things together since he spoke here at Entree Leadership in 2020 in the middle of crazy land at the time. And, you know, we've been having this conversation lately off and on from two or three different angles about the labor. crisis in America. So I wanted to have Mike on and talk about it for just a few minutes. Welcome back, my friend. Good to see you, Dave. And boy, 2020, that was a time. I was so grateful you invited me to that thing because it was the first time I felt like, okay, the world's not completely crap the bed. Somebody sensible is still living life. And it was good to be there with you and the whole gang. Well, and I mean, just let's talk about the truth of it is you've never gotten as much hate mail as you got from doing that event. So it was awesome. I mean, you just, you pissed off

everybody by being here because I was in the middle of pissing off the entire world doing the thing. It was pretty crazy. So it was fun. Hey, why not? Why not? We got to do it. But you and I have gotten to talk about not only the idea that we've talked about around the student loan crisis. You appeared on our borrowed future documentary. We've looked at this labor thing through the student loan crisis. The idea that college is necessary to succeed is absolute bunk. Nothing wrong with college, but the idea that it's the only ticket to success is crazy. What that messaging has done to the trades and how it's killed them, that there's just this backlog of need in the trades now,

and you're a champion of that and have done such a good job with it. We've talked about that. You and I have been on the air talking about your work ethic scholarship and the actual tenets of that. What do we call those the – what do you call it? The guidelines? Work ethic – Oh, the sweat pledge.

The sweat pledge. Thank you. Yes. Absolutely. Yeah, I mean, because that pisses the people off that don't want to work, right? It's a crazy. Well, look, we're living in a crazy time where it seems like overnight, that which was virtuous, has become a vice. And almost vice versa, in some ways.

Work ethic, for instance, is officially a bad word in a lot of corporate handbooks now, ambition. drive, delayed gratification, all the stuff that used to be baked into the basic Boy Scout oath has become, oh, what's the word? Problematic, right? And so the, you know, politically incorrect, yeah. Well, I mean, listen, that guy you just talked to, Anthony, right? I mean, he's got questions. Those questions are always relevant, and you're great at answering them on a, on a micro level, right? Like, what do you do from a leadership standpoint. How can you help train your people? But what you and I are talking about now is what happens when that guy, Anthony, you know, he's still got to run his business, but the pool from which he can recruit went from this big to something about a third of the

size. We got 7.2 million able-bodied men in prime working age sitting out the workforce. That's That's never happened in peacetime. By sitting out, we mean they are not counted in the unemployment statistics because they're not trying to get a job. That's right. That's the Nick Eberstadt number, right? That's right. And that's really, I mean, I've been singing out of this hymn book for 15 years since my foundation started, and I always kind of lead into it a little bit more every year.

But this year is different. This year coming out of the lockdowns, guys like Anthony. And you're right, he's heroic. anybody who's trying to run a small business today and recruit in this environment is, is dealing with Herculean obstacles. So I've got nothing but sympathy for that guy and nothing but worry and maybe a little bit of contempt for this giant chunk of our workforce that has simply abdicated. They're just sitting out, Dave.

And how they're making ends meet without working, I guess that's a compliment. conversation for another time, but it's certainly part of it. Yep. Yep. And, you know, helping them not make those ends meet unless they get up off their butts again as a conversation, too. You know, those that don't work, don't let them eat, the good book says. And that's the good book, by the way. And so, yeah, unfortunately, consequences is one of those words we're not really allowed to talk about. No, that's exactly anymore. Because it wouldn't be fair for things to, you know, cause and effect. That's, that's not fair either, I suppose. We could take it all the way back to parenting, if you want. My granddaughter,

Rachel's daughter, we were at the lakehouse last summer, and she's a little too articulate for a four-year-old. But I said, where's your cousin? And she said, he's inside. And I said, what's he doing? He's with his dad. What are they doing? He's experiencing consequences. I said, have you experienced consequences? And she said, yes, Papa Dave, I have. At which point I was very proud of both of my daughters and sons-in-law for helping their children experience consequences because that means that they can actually understand cause and effect. It's good parenting.

You and I are old enough. You and I are old enough, and I bet a lot of your listeners are, too, to remember a game show once upon a time called truth or consequences. And I always thought it should have been truth. consequences, but call it what you will. We're kind of short on both nowadays. Exactly. Exactly. And I think Mike and I have been talking about this and Nick Eberstadt that brought up the 7.2 million men who aren't unemployed because they're not wanting to be employed, so they're not counted in the unemployment numbers. You know, I read a book by Easter, a Pulitzer Prize guy called Comfort Crisis. My friend Craig Groschell, one of the top passengers. I mean,

in America has written a book on personal growth where he talks about making hard right decisions do the right things the do the hard things the right way is part of being a high quality leader ken coleman that talks about work on our team here at ramsie is just going bananas about this whole work ethic and the quiet quitting thing and the this race to mediocrity thing dr john deloney on our team is talking about the mental health side of this Because when you don't work and accomplish things, it causes despair. It causes a loss of dignity. And so there's a mental health application that goes with this.

And when you tell a whole segment of the population that they're not essential, and then you see suicid statistics go up, hello, that goes with the territory too. So all of this has been stewing in a gumbo that Mike Roe and I have been stirring. And so we're going to do an event called America's Labor Crisis. and we're going to have those five guys on with Mike and I. We're going to be interviewing them and adding commentary as we go along. Thursday, May the 4th. The stream is for your small business people.

It's completely free. We just want to create the conversation and stir up a ruckus because we want people to look forward to work ethic. Calluses on your brain or your hands are good. Learning to persevere and have grit is good. teaching your kids to do that is good, sitting on your butt in your mother's basement playing Halo when your 28 is not good. And we're going to say these things out loud, very loudly, and very in your face. Mike's always a little more articulate and kind than I am, but I'm here to add color.

So there we go. And we'll be doing this from the Ramsey Live Event Center on May the 4th, and we want you to come. Go to Entreeleadership.com slash labor crisis, and you can sign up to watch the live stream completely free. and that's where all this is headed, is that we've been kind of, there's like different buckets of this stuff. You know, the quiet quitting thing, right? And then there's the bucket of the unemployed.

There's a parenting bucket almost in this. And then there's the leadership bucket. You know, we've got to be leaders that people want, that inspire people instead of, instead of cracking a whip on folk. And there's the cost of education, right? I mean, you can't talk about vocation without talking about education.

We're going to have to talk about $1.7 trillion in student loans on the books. We've got to talk about 11.5 million open jobs right now, most of which don't require a four-year degree. They require the training that we're talking about right now. So, yeah, it's an unholy bull you base of bad news and dots that don't want to be connected, but we must tell the truth, or the consequences will continue to evade us.

and that's why I agreed to do this thing with you. Plus, it's always good to see you, and I know there's going to be some decent bourbon around. That and possibly a cigar. So there you go. That was our excuse. This whole thing is an excuse to do that. So, yeah, we'll even probably get some of your grandpals out there, right?

That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Carl Noble would be honored. That's good stuff. Yeah, look, man, I appreciate you putting it together. The country needs to have the conversation, period. And, you know, we're all pushing the rock up the hill as best we can. Sometimes it feels Sisyphian. Sometimes it feels quixotic.

But, look, we're all in it together. And if our workforce isn't balanced, if we're, if we've got our thumb on the scale, if we're elevating certain jobs over other jobs, we're going to keep getting more of what we have right now. So it starts with a conversation. And I know you and I are going to have a good one. Yeah. Well, I'm good at stirring up a ruckus, and you're good at having a conversation, so we'll get it pulled together and do all of that.

Hey, I think it's interesting, before we wrap this up for the day, again, America's labor crisis, entreeleadership.com slash labor crisis on May the 4th from the Ramsey Events Center. You can actually come there and watch it if you want to for free. Get in touch with us, Entry leadership team, they'll get you in there. We're not going to, no, we're charging for those tickets on the floor, that's right, but they'll help you get a ticket. Oh, you can get that at Ramsey Solutions.com slash events.

You can get that ticket. But anyway, come on out. Mike's going to be with us. Mike, when you ran, I watched you do some of this, some of these points that we've been covering here on Fox and on the, I believe it was with Bill Himmer, if I remember, right? And you got almost no pushback. You went on CBS in the morning show.

and then and said the exact same thing. And you got hate mail. Sure. Yeah. And I was on CNN last night and CNBC the day before that. And basically, Dave, I'll go anywhere. People want to have an honest conversation. Really the same conversation you and I are going to have on the fourth. But look, that's okay. I mean, this is my 15th year running a work ethic scholarship program. And since we're talking about money, and if you'll forgive the shameless plug, we've got a couple million bucks we're going to give away next month. And we set it aside specifically for people who want to learn a skill that's in demand. So back to Anthony, back to his struggle to recruit. We've got to make the pool bigger for guys like him running businesses like the ones he has. So if anybody listening

knows of somebody who either doesn't want to borrow a vast sum of money to go to a four-year university or who is willing to learn a skill that's in demand. Apply for a work ethic scholarship. It's over at microworks.org. You got to jump through some hoops. The sweat pledge. Talk about the sweat pledge. What do they have to pledge to? Well, that's one of the hoops you got to jump through. You simply have to sign a 12-point pledge that I wrote many years ago that talks about things like personal responsibility with regard to on-the-job safety. It talks about gratitude. The very first one says, I've won the greatest lottery of all time. I'm alive. I walk the earth. Above all things, I'm grateful. If we're not on

the same page for that, well, that's okay, but this particular pile of free money is probably not going to be for you. We talk about delayed gratification. We talk about a decent attitude. All of that happy horsecraft that Horatio Alger was spewing a century ago, it's still for sale. So we're just looking for, I don't care about your grades. I care about your attendance record. Your character. Yeah, man. And look, it's hard, Dave. It's actually, it's impossible

to look into your soul and weigh and measure somebody that way. But we can at least have a conversation about it. And the world's full of scholarship programs that reward academic achievement and talent and athleticism. We go with work ethic. We start there because that's what feels most efficient.

Then we get you the training you need. We've got 1,500 people who've gone through this program. Half of them are making six figures. a year. They're all working in the skilled trades. And we're doing it again right now as we speak and we'll do it again later in the year. So there it is. You know, if you or somebody you know is willing to learn a skill that's in demand, microworks.org, apply now. And if somebody wants to donate to that foundation, can they do that too? No, no, we got all the money we need, Dave. Things you never hear on untray leadership. Yes.

Well, look, we've given away close to $7 million. I've raised most of it doing a lot of strange things over the years, but I've never said no to a tax deductible check at microwerx.org. You'll see a giant donate button. That would be your clue. There you go. That's how you hit that. Just hit the button, and then follow through.

That's good. Okay. Good stuff. Good stuff. May the 4th, America's Labor Crisis with Mike Roe. Dave Ramsey. Michael Easter of Comfort Crisis. Craig Groshell, Dr. John Deloney,

Ken Coleman and Nick Eberstadt. All will be with us. Mike and I will be interviewing them, talking about the parts of this discussion that they are experts on, some of the top thought leaders in the entire world. They've got their hands around the numbers, the statistics, the economics,

the mental health aspects of this, more than anybody walking the planet right now. We put together the A team on this and really excited to get to do this with you, my friend. Mike Roe, thanks for hanging out. Thanks for having me, David. I will see you soon. You've got it, brother. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast.

Welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast. Thank you for joining us. Man, I'm so excited about this labor crisis event with Mike Rowe on May the 4th. Make sure you don't miss it. If you're not going to come to Nashville and actually be in the audience, make sure you're watching it. Because we're really dealing with some stuff here that nobody in the mainstream is talking about. Both of us have got our hands on this stuff more than,

about anybody else walking out there right now. And so really, really pumped about that. Hey, if you want to join us here with a phone call and get your question answered, I'd love to talk to you. The phone number is 844-944-1070, leave a voicemail. We'll call you back and set up the time at which we call you and all of that kind of good stuff. Hey, and if you want to help us, and man, Lord knows we need the help. And hey, what you could do is you can help us by growing this show. This show grows only by word of mouth. Take it. Hit your YouTube button, your podcast button, and share it.

Share the link with somebody. Tell them to start listening to the Entre Leadership podcast. We need your help. And also, you could leave a five-star review. Don't leave a one-star review. Mama said if you ain't got nothing nice to say, don't say nothing at all. So get that done.

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says, we're struggling to find, here it is again, dependable, competent help for our food truck. it's partial hours lunch 830 to 2.30. We've tried indeed and social media. We have plenty of work, but turn so much down due to staffing. How can we find help? Well, as we've been talking about almost throughout this entire particular podcast, labor is a problem. Labor shortage is a problem. Finding people to hire is a problem. Even when times are different and the applications are plentiful, going through them and finding somebody whose parents aren't cousins is it's a tough thing man I mean you got to go through and get people who have a brain and it's just it's it's a thing it really is and because if you hire just warm bodies man you're going to have so much cray cray in your

building even around your truck there I mean it's it's something else so you just don't want to do it I've done it and uh I mean it just turns into a freaking circus and so you're better off to turn the work down until you get the right people than you are to hire the people and screw up your brand with goobers that don't run the truck right don't keep it clean don't serve the customers i went to a food truck the other day is 45 minutes i'm not going back that food truck i'm done i mean i got the patience of nothing i'm not i mean i you know i guess if you need a reservation at a food truck there's a problem right so i'm just no thank you and um so i get it i get what you're facing now how do we find dependable competent help

I try to think about pools of people demographically and psychographically that might be interested in doing this that I would like to hang out with. So instead of just saying I have a part-time job in a food truck and appealing to the lowest common denominator, I'm thinking about who's somebody that works a different shift. maybe they work the night shift and they'd like to pick up a little bit of extra work before they go to bed from 830 to 2.30 and then they sleep in the afternoon and then go back to work at night. That's trying to get out of debt. Maybe they're doing that Ramsey stuff, you know. And this is an add-on.

It's a side hustle. It's a part-time job for them. It's not their full-time gig because it's probably not their career when it's 830 to 230 to 230 Wednesday through Saturday, right? And so it's probably an ad. on for somebody. If you're turning down a lot of work, I might even be willing to up my prices so that I could up my pay to make it highly attractive for them to come in. I'm certainly going to make it fun and as easy as possible for them to come in so that they're smiling when the customer comes up to the

window and that they're concerned about it. I might even cut them in on the the profit that that particular truck creates if they're there so many days a month. And, you know, just show them how we make a profit around here. Share with them a little bit, like in a sense, not in reality, but in a sense, make them a partner in the profit and loss statement. So that when they see the profit and loss statement, they say, oh, I get a little bit of that. So if I keep food costs down and I keep sales up by turning over the cost. customers getting the customer serves super fast and smiling so they come back and all that,

then, you know, almost take an ownership position emotionally. So, I mean, it could be that you think about something like who works night shift, nurses. They might want to take a morning shift if you're a nurse. And, you know, they may be working 12s, so they might not be available. But who's, you know, it could be someone in the trades that's working in a factory situation overnight. They're doing Amazon fulfillment on the factory floor. You're doing the fulfillment or something at night. Maybe a FedEx person that's working in the warehouse. I don't know.

But I'm trying to think of somebody like that because this is probably not a career position for them. Now, and, you know, 830 to 230, if their high school students, they're in school, so they can't do it. So we're dealing with adults here. So that's the kind of thing I'm trying to think outside the box. And then I think about, okay, where are those highest quality versions of that person? People of high character. It could be even that you talk to the local Christian college, and you start talking to them about this is an entrepreneur class. And you can come over here and learn how to run a business and staff it through that.

and get high-quality young people, and maybe they even talk them into getting credit for it. But I'm always trying to figure out some way to do that, because what you want to attract is a better character person than someone who would just show up for minimum wage a few hours a truck, a few hours a week for a food truck. They have to have more of an adventure, more of an experience, than just that.

And then once you get one or two of them, pay them $500 if they'll bring their first. friend over if the friend stays 90 days. After your friend's been here 90 days, we'll pay you $500. And don't bring your crazy friend because I'm not going to hire them and it's going to make you look bad. Bring your good friends. So if you hire thoroughbreds, which is what we do around here, we try to get thoroughbreds because, you know, thoroughbreds run around with other thoroughbreds. They don't hang out with don't hang out with donkeys. And you're not going to win the Kentucky Derby with the donkey, so we need thoroughbreds. And so who do the thirdbreads running with?

of the thoroughbred so I try to get them. So, you know, last Monday, here at Ramsey, once a month, we pay out referral fees to team members who referred someone in this state 90 days. And, you know, you can do all kinds of stuff there. You can offer them future ownership positions if you want to or offer the right, offer the, you know, if you do this for a while, I'll help you set your own truck up. And you'll just do it just to say thank you for their few years of service or whatever it is. Something along those lines is the way I'm going to go out this. And then, you know, but it, Mary, the truth is it's very hard right now. And don't let the very hard cause you to hire the wrong people because that's even harder. It's harder. I would rather do

no business than bad business. It's easier. You can stay home. But if you go really work your tail off and then crazy people are messing up everything because you hired the wrong people, it would have been easier to just stay home. So don't hire the wrong people. As tempting as it is, as ambitious and desperate as we become in our businesses to grow it. We need to get somebody hired. When you get somebody hired, we need to get somebody hired. And that's right before you hire the wrong person when you say that with too many decibels and too high an octave, because your octaves go up when you're stressed. It's like, you're how a voice gets higher, you know, when you're stressed, right? So, you know, about the time you're

get into beagle mode like you're chasing a rabbit like that's about the time you're about to make a mistake right and uh so don't just don't i know this feeling i i base it i i've got leaders inside ramsie right now they're coming in my office or coming into our meetings with that beagle sound because they're so desperate to grow the area and we cannot find the right people and that's true all over America right now. And turnover is a higher than it has ever been in America right now. Our turnover is lower than the national average, lower than the averages of people like ours, because we've got an incredible place. But our turnover is higher right this second than it's ever been also. So even though it's lower than other people like us, but that's not that comforting still,

because I still got these people I've got to replace that went to do something else for whatever reason, no matter what I do here. So there you go. Not going to gloss over it. It's hard, but the only thing harder is doing it wrong and having to do it over. That's harder than not doing it. So take your time, fish in the right pools, you'll pull the right fish. Good stuff. Amy's in Providence Road Island. Hi, Amy.

Welcome to the Entree Leadership podcast. What's up? Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. I have a small residential cleaning company. I have three team members that work under me. My company made about $250,000 last year.

You rock. Thank you. Long haul. My question is, where do I find thoroughbreds to be able to take a step back and be able to spend more time with my husband and eight children and work on growing my business more? How old are the kids? 21 to 3. How many of them are working for you? one of them who's currently getting ready to graduate college in December so she won't be after that

how's the other one right behind him uh she's 20 and she works two jobs and goes to school so she wasn't into the cleaning business hmm okay i mean you got eight of them you got to get some work out of them that's all i'm saying i'm telling you i'm working on it jave oh my god entrepreneurship that's so great yeah it's good for them too. I mean, if they, if they work in the cleaning business, 10 years later, they know they can do anything, right? So it's a great, it's a great work ethic, opportunity, character, growing opportunity for them for young people to get into. So the three that you have that are thoroughbreds, what pools do they swim in that we could fish in that sound like them? Well, Dave, one thoroughbred is

my daughter. And like I said, she's getting ready to graduate college, and I want to see her follow her dreams. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure. Two other ones are actually pretty new. I can't really determine that they're thoroughbreds yet. Where'd they come from? What do you mean?

How'd you get them? Indeed. Okay. Which has not been great. Okay. It's been a lot of kind of going through resumes. They send a lot of unqualified candidates and you take risks of people that don't have experience, which is fine.

Just to find out people want to work two days a week or, you know, they, you know, try out for a few months and it's just too much physically for them. It seems like nobody wants to do physical labor anymore. That's a big issue I'm running into. What do you pay in? 20 an hour. Not bad. And that's just a start.

That's just to start. Well, what's it go to after that and when? Well, for the leaders, the supervisors, when they start to supervise, I try to get them for that point within a year if they make it to that. again, we're still relatively new to hiring, but they get up to about 25 in a year. Okay. All right. I wonder if we could find some people that were at your daughter's college that are trying to pay for college,

because you work mainly when they're not in class, don't you? You're in residential or commercial cleaning? We're mostly residential. We have a little bit of commercial. but I do agree that that's a possibility because even with my daughter, there's two days a week shift to leave early four classes, but I'm flexible because I know it's her schedule and school is important. Well, I mean, you could be a great college work, a great college job that I had once, you know, and you're going to have to, they're going to turn over on you when they graduate like your daughter did,

but they're not a 10-year player, but you may not be getting that me 10-year players because they may physically, they may physically wear out. They may move on to other things. This may be a, I'm passing through, maybe the bulk of your players over time. I mean, I'm not saying you have to have turnover, but the restaurant business, for instance, I've got a friend in the restaurant business,

and he has a hundred and 25% turnover annually and thinks that's wonderful because the restaurant business average is 300% a year. Wow. The whole thing rolls over three times a year. that's the business. And I'm like, oh, God, just shoot me. I can't even imagine. I mean, it's just, but, but that's the nature of the business. And you may have some of that in that you, if you, for instance, if you hired these college sophomore and juniors knowing that when they

graduate, they're going to go work in their degree field, right? Right. But hey, and is there a community college or an inexpensive local college that you could even offer to pay part of their tuition as well as $20 an hour and get them that way. Yeah, that would be a possibility also. I'll give you $500 towards tuition after you've been here 90 days and I'll pay you $20 an hour. Right, okay. And that'll get them off their seat. And assuming they want to pay cash, and I'll give you a total money makeover book,

or a debt-free degree book from Ramsey showing you how you need to pay cash for your college and, you know, whatever, that kind of stuff. But, you know, this is a thing where I'm going to participate in you graduating. I'm going to help you pay for it because you're going to give you work. I'm going to help you pay for it because I'm going to pay part of the tuition. And I'm going to be the type of leader that you can come to while you're, that'll mentor you as a human while you work your way through this because I'm a few years ahead of you and I've got some things to speak into your life. That's kind of the Chick-fil-A model a little bit. Truitt, Kathy, if you didn't know, before he passed away, he loved the chicken sandwich. Like nobody's business,

obviously, he's famous for it. But I've been blessed to spend time with Mr. Truitt and Miss Jean before they passed and No Bubba and Trudy and Dan and all of them, and I'm just name drop. But the thing that I learned about Truitt was he taught, boys Sunday school to 13-year-olds at his Baptist church, he loved teenagers. Consequently, Chick-fil-A is known for a great place to work. Parents send their teenagers over there because they're safe. They're going to be talked to. They're going to be trained about life as well as work ethic.

They're going to get an experience while they're there. They're not there. They just send them over there for the chicken. And they didn't send them over there for the money. They sent them over there for the life experience while they're there. And that comes out of True. It's love. It's in the DNA of that company for teenagers.

And so if you can kind of translate some of that love for people like your daughter that you brought in this, maybe that'll help fill this whole process. I'm just, I'm playing spitball with you here because you and I, we've been talking about this whole episode. This hiring thing is tough right now. And so we're all having to get really creative. but sometimes when you do that, you find the best nuggets. Where if you would just put it on Indeed and it automatically worked, you would have never called me, you never would have thought about these things, right?

We wouldn't have had to get creative. But since Indeed didn't work, you know, you got to, and you're just getting crap resumes, now you've got to find a different way to do it. And I understand that. I wish it was easier. God, I wish it was easier. But if it's easier, everybody would do it. This is the Entree Leadership podcast.

I'm Dave Ramsey, stirring up a ruckus. We call it the Ontario Leadership Podcast. We're here to help business people, particularly small business people. If you are in that category, we love you, you make the world go around. You are 54% of the gross domestic product. You are the freaking economy, even if Washington thinks they are and they're idiots. So just to make sure everybody knows where we stand on that. You're the people that get things done in America.

As long as there are garages, capitalism will exist. Somebody starts something in their garage every night. night in America, and sometimes it turns into Michael Dell or Steve Jobs or turns into whatever name you want to name out there. Most of us started something at the card table in my living room 30 years ago. And now we're running this $300 million business called Ramsey. Thanks for hanging out with us. If you want to call into this show, it's 844-944-1070, or leave your question at entreleadership.com slash ask, and we will make you part of of the program. Trent is up next. Trent is in Kenwick, Washington. Hi, Trent. How are you?

Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, Dave. So I own a lawn care business. In 2021, we did a half a million in revenue. And then last year we did right around a million. Wow. My question is... Won't you just double it in a year, dude? Oh, God. Well, it's... Touchdown. It's leading to the next question is... You're tired. Well, we're just, I'm trying to figure out which way to navigate it.

Wow. If maybe we should hire the office employee to do like, you know, answering calls and and invoicing stuff like that, or maybe we should, you know, hire like one of our foremen to become like a field manager to help with the day-to-day task. Hmm. What do you think? Because, well, I don't, I mean, I've been, I'm still out in the field a lot. and I'm answering all the calls, sending the quotes, invoicing,

and so it's just like, it's been a lot, and I just feel like if we want to continue this, I got to make a decision on one or the other. I mean, as me, you know, blue-collar work. I like being out in the field, so I would rather hire an offense employee to answer the phone calls, but I just, I don't know what that would look like. I'm going to send you a copy of the little quick read we did on delegation.

that covers one of the lessons I teach in Entry Leadership Elite on delegation, because you're kind of hovering between treadmill operator and Pathfinder on the first two stages of business. You're right on the bubble. I think you really probably have leveled up on that, but you've just got to get this delegation thing figured out. Now, one of the things I talk about in this quick read, we'll go ahead and talk about now because it's the answer to your question.

There's a couple of different times you want to delegate. one is an easy one. It's you don't know how to do something and you hire somebody that knows how to do it. In my case, I've got about 400 folks in the building that do programming for the web, right, for the internet. And I've never written a line of code in my life. I have no idea if they're any good at it other than we get results, so they're good at it. You couldn't prove it by me, right? So I have zero expertise in that area. It's hilarious. I run a digital company and I can't even work my phone. But that's, you know, so I'm delegating something I don't have an ability to do. Okay. The second thing I've delegated, and it wasn't in this order, but another thing I have delegated is things I hate doing. Right. Right. Exactly. And I hate doing invoicing. I hate doing accounting. I want to read the accounting after it's done to see if we made a profit and where the sales are coming from, but I want to read the key metrics, but I don't want to do. the accounting, just shoot me, okay? I don't want to do it at all. People that do accounting, as far as I'm concerned, they're weird, okay? But, but, but, but, but, but I got some weirdo accountants all in the building here. I got a great CFO that he's just weird. He loves doing this

stuff. We love Jeff. He's incredible. And we've got a great billing team that does all this stuff. Now, I read the, I read the stuff. I see the reports and see, you know, if we've built people, have they paid, I want to see the aging reports. Uh, I read the reports on the, the payables. I scan over. like, what do we send an $8,000 to that guy for again? And I'll ask questions about it, but I don't do the payables. I don't write out the checks. I haven't in a very, very, very long time. Now, I do check to make sure it's being done.

And that one I actually know how to do. I just hate it. Right. I think I heard you say that about your office stuff. Yeah. No, yeah, that's, yeah, I, you know, I love being out on the day-to-day stuff. And you like working with the customers. Oh, yeah.

Yeah. And making sure they're happy. And checking the crews and the quality and make sure it's being done the way that's always been done, which is how you were able to double your business because you're freaking good at this. Well, I mean, you'll double your business if you're horrible. Right. I know you're good at it. So I'm going to have, I'm going to hire them office manager.

And they can answer some of the calls and handle some things. But I want you still on the phone with a customer. What's your cell phone? I want her to direct those cell phone calls straight through to you in many, many cases. But she can do the invoicing, the billing, do the basic, get a basic accounting system in place if you don't. So you need a bookkeeping person that will be your become, also do some basic office skills, write a few letters, answer a few phones, and do the bookkeeping. And, you know, actually keep the books. I want her to produce the P&L.

it's not it's not rocket it's not rocket surgery oh she can do it or he can do it and right and then i and i and i and i and i want them to do the invoicing and then follow up with you and say hey miss jones hadn't paid and maybe she doesn't do the collections maybe you do if there's a some i didn't pay because you this you got the relationship to do the collections on right right but if the new girl mary jo or whatever our new guy mike in the office or whatever their name is, starts to call Ms. Jones. And Ms. Jones doesn't know who that is. You're going to piss her off.

Yeah, exactly. And all it was is she's paid on time every year for years, but the check just didn't clear and there was a problem and it was an accident. And then your guy calls up acting like she's a deadby. You'll lose a customer. Yeah, that's very true. So you've got to look over their shoulder and make sure the work's being done. And if they're going to do the invoicing and they're going to do the payables,

you've got to look at the checking account once a month or once every two weeks with them, go over it. You need to still sign all the checks. For sure. Don't let them have control of your finances at this stage. It's a good way for you to get embezzled. Right. Right. Okay. Because you're out in the field running around and they think they can get away with it. I mean, it happens all the time. So you've still got them, you're still responsible to make sure the work is being done and it's being done with quality. The work being invoicing, bookkeeping, check writing, answering the phone. You still have to make sure it's done right, just like you make sure the lawn is cut properly,

and the weeding is done, and the blowing is done, and the customer's happy there. You've got to make sure the stuff's done right in the office, too, but you don't physically do it anymore, and that's delegation, and you're delegating something you don't want to do that you don't get joy from, which is one of the benefits of being the freaking boss. Right. Not often, you know, I tell our guys, around here, I've been doing this 30 years, if I quit liking something, they're in trouble because I'm going to stop doing it.

They're real happy. I'm having fun doing this show right now. So I think that's what you're a candidate for, and I don't think you put somebody in the field doing what you already like to do and are already good at. That's just my opinion from having listened to you there for a few minutes, and I think you're a stud. Man, double it in one year. Ding, ding, ding. Mike drop. Way to go. I love it. I love it. Man, I love people like that. Tell me, America's not the greatest place in the world. You go from making a half million to a million dollars a year, top line in one year. Nobody told

him he couldn't. He's not in Russia. Hey, guys, better a weary warrior than a quivering critic. Leaders serve. Leaders are active, not passive. Leaders act on principle, not appearances. This world needs more high quality leaders, so choose to lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast.