EntreLeadership - How Successful Leaders Solve Problems with Ryan Michler

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Ryan Michler, the founder of Order of Man. He shares a three-part framework for how successful leaders solve problems. Later in the episode, George chats with John Felkins, the senior director of coaching for EntreLeadership, about the stairsteps of influence. This framework will help you build trust and influence with your team. You’ll learn: Why having a framework is critical to problem-solving How to effectively problem-solve with your team How to empower your team to solve problems How to build trust and influence with your team Sign up for The EntreLeadership Podcast Takeaways—a weekly email where you’ll get three tangible takeaways and a tactical action step related to each week’s episode: https://bit.ly/podcast-takeaways Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/33SwBlO Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Exodus 90: https://bit.ly/Exodus90Entre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital Links: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Ryan Michler’s website: https://bit.ly/3rqqKwo EntreLeadership by Dave Ramsey: https://bit.ly/3E2ndbP Order of Man podcast: https://apple.co/3Ksmu8o Man in the Making podcast: https://apple.co/3nFleom SWOT Analysis model: https://bit.ly/3rvK2QT Theodore Roosevelt’s The Man in the Arena speech: https://bit.ly/3IgKrgU Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday: https://amzn.to/33yCUvd Take the Leadership Growth Assessment: https://bit.ly/3splICj Schedule a call with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries   Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As a leader, you probably don't have any problem finding problems that need to be solved. They're constantly confronting you as you're trying to navigate the challenges in your business. So how do you solve the right problems using the most effective solution? From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, George Camel, and today's episode, we're going to share some frameworks to solve problems and build trust with your teams, which connects to the business driver of personal.

Our first guest today is Ryan Mickler. He's an Iraq combat veteran who started a movement and a podcast called Order of Man, which has been downloaded over 20 million times. Ryan's mission is to help men step into their full potential in their relationships, business, and community. I'm going to sit down with Ryan to talk through a framework that he uses to solve problems and be a successful leader. In our second conversation, I talk with Ramsey leader John Falcons, who's going to share a framework that you can use to build trust and gain influence with your team. Up first, my conversation with Ryan Mickler.

Ryan, it's so good to have you on the podcast. Yeah, I've been looking forward to it. I was talking to the team. I read Entree leadership probably seven or eight years ago as I was building my financial planning practice. So to be able to be here with you and to be able to have this conversation, I'm honored. You're a practitioner of this stuff.

I try to be. I don't always get it right. I don't always do what I'm supposed to, but I do try to put it into practice and make it work for me. Yeah. Well, you've got a really interesting, journey as a as a businessman, as a leader, as a combat veteran. So give us a little bit of the

backstory as to how you got into this whole leadership space. I was a combat veteran. I was in the National Guard. And then I spent a year overseas, a year and a half deployed and came back and realized that what I was doing, which was retail management. So I'd spent a lot of my time in retail and eventually worked my way from, I think my first retail job I was making like, five, 25, I think, was minimum wage at the time. And what was interesting is I went to my boss and I said, he was our district manager and I said, hey, I need a raise. And if I don't get a raise, then I'm going to leave.

He's like, well, see you later. I was like, oh, man. Oh, hold on, backpedal. So I backpedaled and long story short, really try to learn how to be better at the job itself. And I got really good at it and became a store manager for that store. That was Journey shoe store. and then buckle the clothing store and the other end of the mall recruited me

and so I bounced around from store to store and part of what I did is I would go around to different stores and I would help those stores that were struggling until I opened my own store. So I went into California with my new bride we were married for six months, moved down to California,

opened our own store there and learned a lot about leadership and how to manage people and how to motivate and inspire and all that kind of stuff. And then I got the phone call that my National Guard unit was being deployed. Wow. So went and did that and realized I didn't want to get back into retail.

But I was able to take a lot of those principles to new ventures, including my podcast and things like we're doing now. Wow. So you got back home when you went, all right, the retail thing was fun, but there's something else for me. Yeah, I mean, like you said, the retail stuff was great. I love working with other people. I love the conversations. I actually really enjoy the sales process, too, of somebody coming into the store, not knowing you, not knowing what they want and them walking away with a product they're happy about.

So there's a lot of great stuff about that, but I didn't like the nights. I didn't like the weekends. I didn't like traveling around because my wife and I were newly married and I'm just getting to know her again after being gone for a year and a half. So I ended up taking all of my financial licensing stuff to Iraq with me and studying in my downtime. And so I came back and got into a financial planning career. Very cool.

Yeah. Interesting stuff. So you also have this piece. of your journey where there was an absence of leadership. How did that kind of shape who you are today and how you see the world? Everywhere you turn, there's an absence of leadership, you know, and it's glaringly obvious if you spend any amount of time looking for it. But I think what most people do, and this is what I've learned anyways, is that they spend a lot of time hoping that somebody else will lead them, right? They'll see a problem or they'll recognize that something's not

right. And whether they vocalize it or not is different, but what a lot of the times they'll say is, well, you know, that's not my problem or that's not my responsibility or they don't pay me enough to deal with that. So they recognize problems, but they don't do anything about it. And so I saw this in the military. I saw it in my retail career. And I saw it in financial planning as well. And what I realized is that while everybody's sitting around waiting for somebody else to do something, all it takes to lead is say, well, I can do that. And so I started doing it. You know, if I saw a problem, whether it was clothes on the ground in retail management or even in my financial planning career, I realized that a lot of guys were struggling with, and these were financial advisors, struggling with the marketing component. They were very mathematical, very analytical.

They could sit down and do all the spreadsheets and all that stuff, but they couldn't get new clients. So what I did is I thought, you know, I'm just going to record my first sales, like presentation on the CD and I'll just give it to people and they can hand it out to other people. So I went to Staples or Office Max or whatever it was. So it was like your motivational speech to help them get better at sales. It was. Give them all the tips and tricks. Well, this one wasn't that. It was a sales presentation to give to potential clients.

Oh. Because what I realized, and this was the problem, is that I would have people come in on that first call, and they would either move through the process or not. And so I noticed my closing ratios were really low. And I started talking with other advisors. They were having the same problem. Great. Problem.

How can we solve this? So I took those CDs, recorded the first sales presentation, and just started handing it out. Then that way the people who were coming in had already listened to it and already pre-qualified themselves to be able to want to go through the process. Wow. So that was my first dive into the world of audio. And then I moved to a podcast. And now that's grown and gone bonkers. This is my second podcast.

We just started our third. Another problem we recognized is that a lot of men are wondering how to now turn around and teach their sons. how to deal with the same things they've been dealing with. So my son and I, my oldest son, he's 13, just started another podcast called Man in the Making. Oh, that's cool. It's pretty cool. But it just takes some initiative

to be able to see these things and then have a willingness to do something about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I want to dive into some of this leadership content because a lot of leaders would say they have no problem finding problems, right? That can be easy.

They're all around us. But what are some of the problems that you've identified lately? Well, like I said earlier, you know, there's a lot of guys out there who are struggling with being able to communicate these principles and concepts that we teach to their children. So that's been a huge problem. And it's very easy to say, well, you know, I wish something was out there. I wish something was available. But the other problem, and this is more of a personal problem, but this presents opportunities for leadership, is that I see my son, who's 13 years old, growing into a young man.

and there's conversations that we need to have that I want to have, discussions that haven't been broached and discussions that will need to be had over the next five years until he eventually goes out on his own. And because that's a problem for me, I imagine that it's a problem for other guys as well. And so as I've talked with this about other men, yeah, they've had the same issues. How do I talk about this stuff?

And what do I say? And how do I teach my kid responsibility? and that's why we ended up starting that other podcast because we want to be able to propose these solutions for people. Yeah, it's easy to forget that leadership isn't just the thing you do in business. It's how you live your life as a father, a husband, a friend. And there's a lot of leaders listening right now who probably have, you know, resolutions in all areas of life, things they want to approach this year.

Yeah. But they have a lot of problems they need to solve and a lot of things to juggle. So I want to walk through this framework that you've developed to help kind of figure out what the problems are, the right solutions and move forward. Sure. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, it is important that we have these frameworks that we work in because it might just be, well, number one, you're probably going to miss a lot of opportunities if you don't know what to look for.

And then number two, you won't have a method for solving those problems. And then number three, you won't actually know if what you implemented is working. So I work best in frameworks. We can explore and talk about all these little side conversations and things. But for the most part, like keeping it within a framework is really helpful. for me, as I imagine it's the same for other people. To have that filter, your brain can go, all right, I can burn less brain calories

and walk through this process that can help me get to the result I need. Yeah, because I think a lot of people seem to believe that action is prudent. So they're running around, scurry around, do everything, try to fix everything themselves and think, well, I was busy, I must have been productive. No, you were just busy,

but did you actually move the needle? I don't know. But we need to know that, right? And so that's what frameworks help us do. So the first part is, is that what you want to get into? Yeah, let's do it. Yeah, I mean, the first is just to look to identify problems. Some of those are going to be low-hanging fruit. And what I would suggest that you do is just start writing these things down.

And you don't have to be in a leadership position to do this. Okay, so if you recognize and acknowledge that there's problems in your home or problems in your work environment, just start documenting those things. One trap I would say is don't list them all and then give them to your boss or your or say, here's all the problems. that I've identified. That's not going to serve you well. This is for you.

Okay, this is what you need to deal with. There might be one or two problems in there that you acknowledge that, hey, if we fix this, this will make everything else better. And I've noticed that. There's some problems that will just wipe out a lot of other issues that are taking place. And if you're going to present this problem, you better have a solution to it as well. if you're going to go to an employer or a boss or a team leader to be able to have a solution

to this as well, at least something to propose. Because what I see is when somebody comes with a problem, whether it's my kids or somebody at work, great. You just signed on to fix that problem. And if you already have a plan in place, I think your leaders are going to see that and be excited that you're around because that's what they're looking for as well. Yeah, that's a different conversation and a different posture to take when you say, hey, I've noticed all these problems.

I've got some ideas on how we could solve it. I'd love your help. Every leader is happy to hear that. Well, and you don't look, here's the thing. Solving problems, or at least acknowledging they exist, sometimes has a tendency of making life harder for people, right? Because a lot of the times, even in organizations, they take those problems and everybody knows they exist.

Everybody knows. You're not hiding them. But people sweep them under the rug a little bit, and hopefully they'll just go away and dissipate. Eventually they don't. the rug gets taller and taller. So there's a reason that hasn't been addressed yet. And the reason might be something that you're not aware of.

So don't fall into that trap. Or it might just be because the solution hasn't been proposed. Or they don't have the resources, whether it's the financial capital or even the manpower to be able to deal with it. So your job when you're solving problems is not to make life harder on everybody else who already knows the problem exists. It's to make it easier. and if you can grease that groove, you're going to be looked at as a leader.

Yeah. So as you look around, you're finding all these problems, which most leaders don't have a hard time with, how do you know which ones are worth solving? Because some of them may, you know, not my monkey, not my circus. Do I have to decide what we're going to do for the team lunch and what kind of paper thickness we need for the printer? There's a certain level where the leader needs to go, all right, I need to figure this out, but I need to delegate it.

Yeah, you've got to look at your objectives first, right? So if your objective is to give everybody lunch, like it really doesn't matter if you bring in turkey sandwiches or ham sandwiches, like lunch is lunch. Do half of each and you're good, right? But we do get caught up on that stuff. But you got to have a purpose for your organization or your family. I use them interchangeably because we work them very much the same way. But there's got to be a purpose. But if you haven't thought about, okay, what are the most important things that I can get done within an organization or your family, you're never going to be able to judge potential

problems and solutions against. So if we're looking at my business, for example, my number one priority is to get interesting, fascinating guests on our podcast. That's it. That's the single most important thing I can do. And then it's to take that information and then present it to the public who can be served by it. So there's other problems that that creates like, well, what if the video is not good? What if the audio is not good? What if this is not good? Well, the first thing is to get a good guest. And so I've brought on somebody who's been very, very helpful brandy to help me secure podcast guests because I recognize that although that wasn't a I wanted to elevate that and have help in that department.

Now that that's checked off the list and that that's cover, I can start looking at some of these ancillary problems that are created because of it. So it helps you focus on different issues, more important issues, strategic opportunities that you might have in the future. That's right. That's good. And the other thing you have to consider is with the problems that you're identifying and recognizing, are you the best person to solve those problems? because as a leader, maybe it's a bit of narcissism, maybe it's a bit of ego,

maybe it's just a bit of intense care for the project that you don't want to let it go. And what I've found is that I'll take my podcast, for example, not only do I not want to edit my podcast, I am not as good as having an editor for my podcast. And my sole purpose is to put good information out in the world and fascinating conversations, then that means I need to bring somebody else in to do this. this who can do it better than me. And it does something else. It frees up our time to focus on what we are uniquely qualified to do. So I might have a great, and I do have a great podcast editor, but he's not going to be as good as me when it comes to doing the podcast. So I got to free up time for him

to do that, free up time for me to do my thing, and we're both better served because of it. And the people who listen are better served as well. Yeah. And that takes a level of humility, you kind of let go and go, all right, I can't do it all. I don't want to do it all. Here's what I'm really good at. I'm going to find other people and set up that team around me. to make this successful. Yeah, I mean, humility is definitely part of it, but I would say there's another part of it. You have to care so much about the product

or whatever you're putting into the world that you'll do whatever it takes to make it effective. So, yeah, if humility serves you, and that's how you choose to look at it, great. Me, I choose to look at it and say, hey, I really want my audience to be served by this, and therefore I'm going to do these things to ensure they get the best quality product.

Yeah. So as we move through this, we've identified the problems. what is the next step to get through this? So what you need to do first is you need to just start brainstorming all of the proposed solutions, at least the things that come to your mind. But here's the trap. At this point, don't check anything off the list. That's what people do.

They're like, oh, you know, I'm having a problem with communication so we could do this one thing. And then you're like, no, that won't work because of X, Y, and Z. You're not doing that right now. All you're doing right now is proposing as many different solutions as possible because after the fact, then you're going to go in and you're going to review those solutions. What I look for is two things in a solution. Number one, which solution is going to move the needle the most? Like, which is going to have the greatest impact on this problem I'm dealing with?

Because resources are finite. Manpower is finite. Financial capital is finite. So what solution am I proposing is going to move the needle a furthest? That's number one. And number two, which one can I do the fastest? and that's very, very important, especially for leaders who tend to be perfectionists in their work

is they won't do it because it's not perfect. Sometimes you have to plug the hole in the dam before you actually go in and actually fix the dam and make it right. And sometimes plugging, not to never come back to it, you actually got to fix it, but to plug it so you can go and work on it more correctly. Yeah.

So there's a mix here of speed and impact. And as you balance those, you go, how can I solve this quickly and effectively without spending too much time, too much money, too much manpower? Yeah, speed and impact. The best way I would describe that is efficiency. You know, efficient doesn't mean fast. It doesn't mean slow.

It doesn't mean you spend a bunch of money or you spent no money at all. It's that the ratio or however you choose to look at it is exactly right. We spent the right amount of money and got the best possible result we could. Yeah. So what is the right perspective to have as you approach these problems? You have some solutions here. How do you make sure you're thinking through the solution with the ramifications of mind? How does this affect the team?

How does this affect our customers? Yeah. So are you asking from a position of leadership or somebody who's striving to be to assert themselves to become more of a leader? I think it's that person in leadership who is in charge of fixing the problem. Whether or not they're going to do it or not. Yeah. So how do they address that when there are some, there's some things on the line here.

There's money, time, customer perception, how the team feels about it. you know, there can be a lot going on there. Yeah, I think the best thing you can do is look for feedback from people who are involved. So you have to go up and you have to go down. And when I say go up, maybe it's more lateral, maybe it's sideways. But like if you don't have mentorship, if you don't have people in your life who are successful in the areas that you want to be successful, then you're really, really missing an opportunity. Because you might present a solution to a problem that you see or at least have a solution.

And you can go to a mentor, somebody you admire, somebody you receive, somebody you receive, respect, somebody who has credibility, and ask them, here's what I'm thinking about doing, they're going to show you all sorts of blind spots that you just cannot see yourself, because they've been down that path. So don't ever think that just because you might own the business or you're in a position of authority that you shouldn't be looking to people who are more advanced than you, more knowledgeable than you, that's going to go a long way. Yeah.

I think of our own operating board here at Ramsey's Solutions, where Dave has this incredible team that he's grown of leaders who he can bounce these ideas off of and make the hard decisions and delegate things to, which is so important as you grow and scale your business. But early on, it may just be you. And you might need to find that mentor who's been there, who's done that, who can guide you through that process. Yeah, I mean, mentorship is huge. A lot of times guys get stuck, though, and gals people get stuck because they don't know

what value they have to offer others, like a potential mentor. Well, one way is you can just hire a mentor. That's a way you can add value to their life. pay them. Another way is there's going to be people in your sphere of influence. Maybe it's somebody at church or a neighbor or a relative, even if it's a distant relative. And the best way you can add value to that person's life is give them an opportunity to serve. Because people who are so far down the track, they've got it all, right? They've got the money. They've got the resources. They've got the business. Things are humming. It feels good to help other people. And typically, those who have

built amounts of wealth and success in their life, do it because they add value. So just as you want to add value to them, they would like to add value to other people. And so if you do have a mentor, and here's one of the traps I would say avoid, is don't ghost them after the fact. If I come to you and I say, hey, what do you think about this? What should I do? And you give me proposed solutions and I implement them and then never tell you about it, that's not valuable.

I need to come to you and say, hey, I implemented what you proposed. I tweaked a few things, but I implemented it. And here's what worked and here's what didn't. And I'm going to keep doing it. I just want to tell you, I really, really appreciate you. Following up with mentors is the value that you add to them because they feel good that it's working and that you're actually doing it. Because nobody wants to waste their breath.

Like nobody wants to share a bunch of insight that could potentially change your life and then you not do anything with it. So. But also we talked about going down too, right? So you, and I'm not talking about worth. I just want to make sure I clarify that. But you have to talk with your team because they're the, ones who are going to be impacted by the decisions you're making. So if you have a proposed

solution and it doesn't work because one of the departments says, well, actually, we can't do that, then that's going to be a problem. So what I suggest doing is getting your key people in and then doing a red team session and let people just poke holes at your idea. Not to be mean-spirited, not to blow it out of the water, but to really with the intent of finding a way around that. So that is a trap a lot of people fall into As they're like, oh, we'll red team this, we'll look at this idea And then they walk away, completely deflated Because everybody just picked apart their idea.

Yeah, right. That can be hard. And as a leader, that can be a little scary to be that vulnerable. And the team feels like, can I really be honest with Ryan right now because he just brought this idea and that he's excited about And this problem that he wants to solve? I don't want to, you know, I don't want to deflate that. How do you avoid that?

You as a leader have to detach yourself from the response. Like, if you're going to ask for feedback, back and you're going to ask for input, I would establish some ground rules, first and foremost. One of the ground rules is, hey, we're not here to blow this up for the sake of blowing it up. We're here to see if this will work and if it won't to manipulate it and tweak, adjust this solution so it will work. That's the attitude. So you have the ground rules, and then you have to detach yourself from the response.

Because if you came up with the idea, you're emotionally attached to that. And if somebody says, that's a dumb idea or that won't work because of X, Y, and Z, People tend to take that emotionally. You can't. You have to detach. Again, it's all about what the objective is. If the objective is to grow the movement, grow the business, grow the mission, then we've got to figure out the best path forward. There's this one other little important factor, and that is your response is going to really dictate whether or not this is going to work and whether or not they're going to help you in the future.

If you say, I talk about this in the context of your wife. you know, or a husband. And you really want your spouse to communicate more effectively with you about money, let's say. And so she comes to you and says, hey, you know, I spend a little more than I should and I haven't been really keeping a good budget, but I wanted to keep you on the same page so we can make sure that we do this together. And you completely lose your mind. Like she's never going to share any of that information with you again.

So detach from the emotion and the feeling of it. Ask yourself, does it align with the mission, the purpose of what we're doing, and then be mature. Have enough emotional intelligence to realize that you can't blow up when they give you the feedback that you asked for. You're only undermining yourself. Yeah. That's a great analogy, too. We've all been there. Of course.

Yes. So we've identified some problems. We've brainstormed some solutions. As we step into this, what is the next part of the process? At this point, you've got to start executing and implementing. There's a couple of different frameworks for this. What I usually look at is I look at the strengths that we have to be able to implement solutions, the weaknesses that are there.

Maybe we don't have the right manpower to be able to implement this right now. Or maybe the person who does isn't capable of doing that. Maybe their skill set doesn't match what it is we're looking for. But then there's opportunities. So here's an opportunity. We have John over in this other department. He's actually really good at that. could this be something that he could take on?

Is he interested in promoting? Is he interested in additional work? So there's an opportunity to help John fill a problem that you have. And then you have to look at threats as well. So it's, you know, SWAT analysis, which is an analysis, I think, is pretty common. So you look at your threats. We've already done that because we've rev teamed it. What's the problem?

What could it go wrong? And then what you can do from there is you can start looking at what resources I need to bring in. So what do I have? Here's the money that we have to go into this. here's the time, here's the technological resources we have available, here's the people and the money that we have available. And so what do we need to do? And start working towards those solutions

and then implementing as quickly and efficiently as you can. As part of this process, as you're bringing other people in and you're executing, you talk about making the connections. What do you mean by that? I mean that this goes back to what I said earlier. We as leaders often think that we need to do everything. right that we need to solve every problem that we need to be involved in every little interaction we don't in fact that just becomes a bottleneck and hindrance to what could be produced so what I'm saying

about making the connections is figuring out a what needs to be done and then B who needs to do it and it shouldn't be you probably in large part it's not going to be you at all and I've struggled with this because I care so much about what I put out into the world that I want it to be done just right and so I subscribe to the mentality. If you want it done right, you have to do it yourself. That isn't true. That's a lie. If you want it done right, the right person has to do it.

And the right person is out there. Now, if you don't have that person on your team, that's your fault. Okay, that doesn't mean they don't exist. It means you don't have them on your team and you need to get those people on your team. Or maybe they are, and you haven't provided the training and resources they need. That's making the connections. So here's the problem. Here's the elements and the tasks that need to be done.

And then I start delegating, well, this person can do this. This person can do this. Here's how they're going to communicate and work together. Here's how we're going to know if it's working. Here's the deadlines we need to hit. Here's when I want to be communicated with about where we are on track with this thing. And really give yourself the best chance of success. Yeah.

So you mentioned this. Being a leader doesn't mean that you have to do everything. It means that you make sure everything gets done. So how have you done this in your leadership roles? Yeah, so well, we ought to talk about this too because there's leadership and then there's management. So managing a task or even managing a group of people doesn't necessarily equate to leadership. Right? If I'm just telling you do this, you do this, you do this, you do this, that's management.

There's nothing wrong with it. I think sometimes management gets a bad rap. Things need to be managed. So you need to manage those or have somebody who will. Leadership to me is more about empowering and inspiring other people. So that means you need to give your what I call commander's intent, what the intent is, what the purpose is, and then you start coming up with ways to deal with it,

and then you empower people to make great decisions. And then if they don't, you train them. If they do, you honor and acknowledge that. So your question was, how have I done this in my own life? Is there a recent example of this where you went, yep, I was there. I felt like I had to do it all. It was riding on my shoulders, but I knew that I wasn't the right person. Yeah, so I recently, well, I say recently,

it's been a little over a year now. brought on somebody that is responsible for acquiring podcast guests, for guest outreach, for the logistics of my traveling, coordinating with these guests, and then also following up with our guests as well. And the caliber of guests that we've had on the podcast in the past year, because I've brought somebody who's very, very good at this on,

has gone from here, and it's always been good to next level. And in 2022, it will continue to go to next level. The other thing that she's allowed me to do is to free up all of the headache and all of the nightmare about logistics with having podcast guests here or me traveling like I am here in Nashville. She handles all of that so I can focus on putting out the best possible product that I can. That's really hard to do because you need to let it go and you also need to pay that person. And that's something a lot of leaders struggle with. It's like, oh, I got to pay this person. Yes, it's not, I wouldn't even consider it paying.

You have to invest in other people. If you do that, an investment is, it will be returned to you if it's a good investment and if you're pruning about the investments that you're making. So yeah, bringing the right people on. I've got, that's been a big push for me over the past couple of years now. I've got my podcast editor. I've got two different designers now that are working with us. I've got Brandy who manages the podcast and logistics and securing podcast guests and going

other other podcasts. I've got an event planner. These are things I used to do myself, and I'm busy. I don't even know how I did it. Well, I actually do. I was decent at all of them, not great at any one of them. And now I'm allowing, empowering, by the way, other people to be able to step into these roles so I can do what I want to do and what I'm good at, and they can do what they want to do and what they're good at. Yeah. And I'm sure a lot of the listeners right now are going, yep, I know I need to make that higher because that's not something I'm great at. I don't like doing it. I'm not great at it. And I could pay someone who could do this a lot better who really love it. And that could be a game changer for my business. There's another way that works

into the framework that we're talking about when it comes to that example. A lot of the times you might say to yourself, well, I know I need to make this higher. I need to bring on a network manager or an HR person or something. But I can't really bring them on full time right now. Like that's an issue that I see a lot of people have. So there's ways we live in this amazing world where all this value is there. And so don't think that you need to bring in like an entire department or team to solve problems that you have without having to have all of the financial cost and burden that comes with it. Yeah. That's a good reminder.

There's a lot of avenues out there. And with technology these days, there's so many, there's so many more options than there used to be. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we've got programs that we use. One of the things that we do is we have a digital brotherhood. So we've got about 1,100 guys in there.

and we're all connecting digitally on a weekly basis, even daily we're talking about challenges and assignments that we offer and we're meeting and we're holding each other accountable. And, you know, for a long time, I thought to myself, man, I just really need to build my own platform because I recognize that some of the other platforms were missing components and things like that.

And then what I realized is I just didn't find the right tool. Like I could go out and spend tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on building my own technology and building my own app, or I can do it with that program, spend a little time. In fact, I didn't even do it.

This is going to sound weird. I try not to do anything. I got to make sure everything gets done, but I try not to do anything. And I know it sounds weird, but it's so much more efficient. Like, all I want to do is podcast, period. So this is what I did when we were looking for the solution.

There's a gentleman in our Iron Council, our brotherhood, experience in working with some of these other solutions and things like that that were out there. So I called them up, but I said, hey, I would like you, I'd like to hire you to look at all of these solutions and test them all and then tell me which one is best. Great, done. So he did it. We found another platform and that platform is 98% of the way there.

The other 2% is just not worth the cost. That's a decision I've had to make. That's incredible. And you just delegated that and said, hey, I'm not great at this. Someone else can do this faster, better, cheaper than my time spent on this project. That's an important reminder as leaders enter this year and try to approach all their goals. And it wasn't even an employee. It was somebody that was in our – so look, I gave him an opportunity to do something he enjoys doing, made a little extra money, was busy, added value.

Now he probably see – every time he logs in, he's like, yeah, we log in because of me. You know, so it feels good. It feels good. And I want, again, I want to, I'm a leader. I want to empower people. I want to give them opportunities to lead themselves and other people. So as we wrap here, what encouragement would you give to the listener who they've got the problems? They're starting to brainstorm these solutions.

They want to execute. But they want to make sure they do it the right way. This is going to sound weird maybe is you got to be okay with it not being the right way. Because too many of us get caught up in, well, it's got to be perfect. it's got to be just right. What if it doesn't work? What if this? What if that? Those are considerations. Sure. But if you're so wrapped up in what could go wrong, then you're never going to move into a potential solution for you. So wrap your head around the idea that what you're doing, whether it's in your business or your personal life, is a series of experimentation. That's it. You know, and there's not,

there are, but there's not too many situations that are going to blow the whole thing up. And that if you mess up here or there, it's okay. You know, it reminds me of the man in the arena by Theodore Roosevelt when he talks about, you know, you're the guy marred by the blood and sweat and dust when everybody else is sitting around hoping that things would just work out perfectly. You're going to get beat up. You're going to get banged up. Things aren't going to work.

You're going to spend more money than you need to. And, you know, I wish that we didn't have to mess up. You know, I wish I haven't spent probably over the course of my career hundreds of thousands of dollars in what Dave would call a stupid tax, right? My friend calls it tuition payments. It's the same concept. Okay. A lot of people are listening to this. They're going to go to school a four-year degree and it's going to cost them $20, $30, $40, $50, $100,000.

And they have no problem making that payment. But then when it comes to their business, they're not willing to do that. It's like, why? You know, if you invest $100,000 and it doesn't work. work out, you're not going to lose 100,000. You're going to have a lot of experience. You're going to have a lot of, you probably have whatever resource you purchased with that $100,000 that you can still utilize. So whether you want to call it a stupid tax or a tuition payment, it's got to be paid, it's got to be made. And if you wrapped your head around that, you're going to take more risk, but it's going to pay off more often.

Yeah, it takes the pressure off to not go, all right, it doesn't have to be the perfect right way. And it will never be. We just need to move forward because when customers need that. And you can always draw upon past experiences. You know, we've all been in difficult situations. where we've implemented something. You know, I've had hires where I'm like, nope, that didn't work. And I spent a bunch of money. There's one in particular. And I spent a bunch of money and a bunch of time.

And every time I got off the call with this person, I had a headache. And I was like, I just wanted to blow the whole thing up. I'm like, what, what are you doing? And I finally just let him go. And that was good for him. And it was good for me. And then everything moved forward. Like I got the blockage out of the way.

It all moved forward. And life was just better. but it didn't blow anything up. There's actually a lot of things that we still implement in our organization that he brought to us. So although it ultimately didn't work out, there's still a lot of good that came from it.

I never would have known if I didn't take that risk. Yeah. Well, I love your attitude towards this stuff. I love what you're doing with the Order of Man podcast, helping men out there become better leaders, husbands, fathers, all of it. And we really appreciate you coming by and being on the podcast. Thanks, brother. What an honor.

I mean, it's cool to be here with the whole team and to be on this podcast. talking about these things. I listen to this show. I read the book, and now I'm like, cool, I get to be on it. You're inside of it now. I'm in the world. I'm part of the team.

Well, it's an honor to have you. Thanks for that. Huge thanks to Ryan for coming by the Entree Leadership Studio and having a great conversation. If you want to hear more from Ryan, be sure to check out his podcast, Order of Man. We've got a link for you in the show notes. Ryan talked about how to solve problems

through a simple but effective framework. The thing is, it's hard to solve problems when you don't have influence and trust with your team. So coming up, we're going to talk about how you can stare-step your way into effective leadership. We'll have a conversation about that right after this. All right, in our second conversation, I talk with John Falcons. He's the Senior Director of Coaching for Entree Leadership, and we talk about what he calls the stair-steps of influence,

a framework that will help you build trust and influence with your team. Here's our conversation. John, it's great to have you back on the podcast. Thanks, George. Thanks for having me. What's going on to your world of coaching? Oh, gosh. Where do I start? We're just helping folks as much as we can. I love it.

Well, we had a great chat with our friend Ryan Mickler about problem solving. And as we were talking about it, I kept thinking it's hard to be a problem solver if you don't have the influence and trust on your team. So I want to talk about that today, and we brought you on it because you've got a great framework that I've heard you share around this very topic. So to start us off, let's talk about your failures. Okay, that sounds good. Can you remember? How long is this podcast going to be? It's going to be a while.

It's going to be a while. Three or four hours. Oh, this will be fun. Well, just give us one quick one on maybe a time that you wanted to lead, you wanted to have influence, and it was a failed attempt. Yeah. Well, first of all, let me just give credit where credit is due. I stole this framework from Armando Lopez. Over in our HR department.

Yeah, I don't want to get fired, George. So I got to give that credit where it belongs. But one of the things that I have done in the past is come into a new service. situation, come into a new organization or a new problem to solve, and just immediately start to point out what needs to change, what needs to get better without listening to people, without building any rapport, and it just doesn't work. It falls flat. Yeah, it just falls flat because, you know, that old cliche, people don't care how much you know

until they know how much you care. That's what we're talking about. And cliches are cliches for a reason, and that's because there's some truth in them. And not only can it fall flat, but it could also. damage your personal brand with the team, backfire. So this is really important stuff. So where does this framework start?

Where is the kind of starting point, the foundation we need to build? Yeah, well, what we were just talking about, it is rapport. It is just connecting with people at the human level. People like to work with, people like to buy from, people like to follow people that they like. And you don't have to like have the same hobby. I mean, you and I have, we have almost nothing in common. We have almost nothing in common. And yet we love each other.

We couldn't be more different. But we know each other well enough to know that we're on the same mission. We care about what we're doing. We know each other. We sit down out there at lunch, we listen, ask what's going on in the other person's life. Just basic, you know, emotional intelligence and caring about people and not trying to do too much too fast. That will cause you to stub your toe. Yeah.

How do you not force this idea of rapport? Because it can be a little tricky. It's a fancy word. What does that look like to do it naturally? There are a lot of different ways that this gets built, but I would say the number one thing is just listening, just asking other people, you know, what's going on in their world and then just shutting up. You know, it's the old thing about we've got two years in one mouth and as hard as it might be, be the one to ask, how is your weekend, what's going on? What are you working on first? And then just listen. And people will think that you love them and you're, you know, you're great just by asking them how they're doing and listening. So be interested, be curious, and don't always be thinking, well, what can I interject here? Yeah. Just genuinely listen to them.

Yeah, and that's hard for, especially for guys like us that have got a lot to say. We've got a lot of thoughts. Yeah. That's so true. Okay, so we're starting to build some rapport by caring, we're listening, we're engaging with the team. What is the next step in this process? The next thing is you've got to have credibility with your team. And that is as difficult as and as simple as actually doing what you see.

say you're going to do. If you say, hey, we have work-life balance here, and then when somebody comes to you and says, hey, my kid's sick or, you know, I've got to take my French bulldog to the vet, you don't give them space to do that. If you don't actually do what you've said you were going to do, then you've got no credibility with them. And so how can they really invest in you or follow you if the audio and the video don't match up? So this really comes down to, integrity and consistency. Yep, absolutely. That's big.

And can I add one more thing? Please. It becomes really, really valuable when it's crunch time. When it's easy, that's one thing. But when it gets difficult, when we get to the end of the month, when we get to the end of the fiscal year, and you've made commitments to the team. But you, as the leader, start to feel pressure. If you just push that pressure down onto the team and start to violate some of those

commitments that you've made to them, you're going to lose credibility. So this is something that is earned over time. time and can be broken pretty easily. Yeah, that's the bad news is it takes a lot of, it's like a tree, it takes a long time for a big tree to grow, but you can cut it down with a chainsaw overnight. And so you've got to make a lot of little deposits to build your credibility, and then you've got to be really careful not to ruin it pretty quickly. Yeah.

And you're leading a lot of our coaches. What does that look like for you to have gained that credibility over time? What are some of the steps you took? Well, I'm a work in progress. So, you know, I know the coaches listen to the. the podcast. I just want to own that back, right? Right up front. But, you know, one of the, one of the biggest things is following through, doing what you say, you know, hey, I'll take that action item. Hey, I'll go advocate for that. I'll go see if that's possible. It's just doing those things.

That's, you know, we're still just in step two of this process. But it's foundational. You've got to, you've got to do what you say you're going to do. Yeah. And over time, they kind of have to see you be really, really consistent to where they kind of know exactly how you would think what you would say in any given situation. If you're all over the place, they're going to have no clue. Yeah, they're going to have no clue. And then they're going to feel like, you know, any moment the rug could get jerked out from underneath them. They don't know what's going to set you off. And that's just not a safe environment to work in. And so you're absolutely right. You want to be predictable in a sense. Yes, that's right. Yeah. I know it's not, it's not, you know, exciting in a dating relationship or

something to be too boring or routine, but at work, it's good to be predictable. Yeah. I mean, it just comes down to stability. Everyone wants to know where they stand with the leader and how to operate in that environment. You might be one of the few things in their life that is predictable. Over the last several years, things have been so crazy. Creating a safe, predictable environment and person for them to relate to is super valuable. Yeah. So we're building all of this over time. This is not an overnight process. This could take months. This could take years in some cases to get to different levels. Yeah. But you're starting to build the rapport, build the credibility. What is the next step towards influence? Yeah. So the next step is, and this is pretty nuanced, George. We talk

about this a lot. It's trust. And we differentiate trust from credibility because credibility is just doing what you say you're going to do. And that's good. But trust is really something more than that. It's people knowing that you're going to make decisions with their best interest in mind. It's being able to trust you with my future. It's the ability to come on here on the podcast and know that you're going to make it fun, make it easy, and I just trust you. I'm not worried about what it's going to be like because I know you. I know who you are.

You haven't made those promises to me. We walked in here and we're just doing this. It's the same with the leader. It's one thing to say, I am going to make sure you get paid on Friday. and you get paid on Friday. Well, that's good. That's great. That's credibility.

But that's pretty fundamental. When trust starts to get built is saying, hey, I'm going to advocate for you as a team. I'm going to make decisions on the team's behalf when the team doesn't even know it necessarily. You know, like, let's say an example is putting together an HR package. Well, you and I both know that our company spends a lot of time shopping those things, working on them, and it's a total nightmare. And neither one of us want any part of all of that. We're very thankful for the people to do that.

But we trust those people because even though they haven't, like, communicated all these promises to us about it, we just know their character, we trust them, and that they have our best interest at heart when they're out there making decisions on our behalf. Yeah. And it feels like it's a two-way street. Absolutely. If you can't trust your team, there's no way they're going to have trust in you. That's right. Yep. 100%.

And, again, this is not something that is done in some big grand gesture. It is day in and day out deposits that you got to make. Yeah. So what does it look like when you don't have trust with your team? What is the environment? If you walked into a room and there was not a lot of trust coming on. Yeah. So that, I just had a little shiver.

That's a bad situation. Have you been there? I've been there. Of course, I've been there. And I've done things that have damaged trust. That's a, you know, as a leader, that is something that you've got to be on guard for all of the time. But what's it look like to answer your question?

It looks like people defending themselves. It looks like people not feeling safe enough to call out problems. It looks like people, we would say, alligator arming issues. You know, oh, here, let me get the check. Oh, sorry, I can't reach it. You know, it's people not showing up fully to the mission that you're on. And ultimately, it's people, customers not getting served and you not fulfilling the vision that you have for your business.

Yeah, it feels like that's a great way to build a toxic culture very quickly. Yep, absolutely. There's also a piece of this where if there's not trust, and like you talked about, people are trying to cover their butts, they're not being vulnerable, they're brushing a lot of things under the rug. It's kind of this, everything's fine, I got to taken care of, and you're being very kind of fake nice to everyone because you're trying to protect yourself. Yeah, that's right. That's a very different way to operate than how we do here at Ramsey. And the other thing is, is, you know what? It's not fun.

It's not fun to go to place every day and live in that environment. And so, you know, gosh, we spend a lot of time here, George. and it's got to be fun. It needs to be fun. You can't walk around with your fists up ready to fight someone at any given moment. Yeah, that'll just wear you out. So rapport, credibility, trust. How do you know when you've kind of reached that point where you go, all right, this is working.

The team trust me. Yeah. Well, here's the bad news. It's rented. It's not owned. And so I don't want anybody and I don't ever want myself to rest on my laurels and think, hey, I've built trust, I've got this, and I can go do whatever. We've arrived.

It's rented every single day. You know, you've got to pay the rent and show up and be trustworthy every single day. But when people start to share with you, things that you haven't asked them to share, when people start to push back and debate ideas, and when you see people take responsibility for things that aren't necessarily in their job description or in their KRA as we talk about, their key results area, you know that your team is, trusting each other and that you have built trust with the team and that you as a leader, and I guess this is probably the key thing, is that you have built an environment of trust,

because it's not all about just the team's relationship with you. It's the team's relationship with each other and that you've built this space and in this environment where trust is at a high level. Yeah, and I think a big part of that is, you know, we have a no gossip policy. But if you see some toxic behavior happening around, there's probably not a lot of trust. But if you see healthy conflict happening, people are being vulnerable, they don't mind sharing problems, challenges, struggles, and bringing other people into it. That feels like a trustworthy environment. Yep.

Yep, absolutely. People asking for help from each other. Yeah, that's totally different than a toxic environment. I love it. So this all leads to the pinnacle point of influence. So once you've put your time and effort to build these three previous steps, what does that result look like for you and your team? Gosh, that's a super good question. that we could talk about for a long, long time. What influence looks like is when your team is coming to you, asking you what you think. It's the ability for you to show up as a person fully. And what I mean by that is, is not holding back in conversations, not walking on eggshells. And your team and your organization has got a high level of respect and not out of some kind of weird.

like, you know, oh, it's George, I'm just going to do what he says. It sounds a lot more like, hey, we've got a decision, and I want to know what George thinks. Hey, go get George. We're going to do a course inside of the elite Entree Leadership subscription on key results areas. And I know George has had a lot of different positions in the company. Go get him, bring him in here. We want to hear his opinion on that. We want him to speak into that. Spoiler alert. That's a good real scenario, John. I love that. You have influence with us. We respect you.

We want to know what you think. That's what it looks like to have influence within an organization. And if I may, you know, the thing is, is you can have a title and not have influence, but then it's all positional. It's like, well, we got to get George in because he's a personality and we have to use personalities. And, you know, so then we got to deal with George. Like that's a positional thing. But a relational thing is, is when we're asking.

and we're saying, man, it would be awesome if we could get George to speak into this. It's the same in a scenario as a leader. If your team is coming to you and saying, hey, John, what do you think about this? I'm struggling with this. Hey, I've got a problem. How have you handled this in the past? I've got this customer. I'm not exactly sure what to do with them.

Well, first of all, they trust you enough to tell you that they've got a problem and they're not hiding from you and they're asking your opinion. And then, of course, and I don't want to get into the whole thing about what it looks like to be a coach as their leader, but the way you build even more trust is to say, you know, if you were to come to me, Jordan, say, hey, I've got this thing, I got to talk about this topic, what do you think? Well, I could just tell you. But if I started asking you some good questions to cause you to come up with the solution that is yours, I'm even building more influence because I'm coaching instead of directing. Yeah, that's a great observation there. And one other thing I

want to mention when it comes to influence. And, you know, have you seen this done well in your life? Who was that leader that had a lot of influence? Maybe it was here, maybe it was elsewhere. What was that relationship like? Yes, I have. You know, I think the other day I was actually sitting with Dave at lunch. I had gone to the microwave and he didn't know that that was my lunch. And so I came and sat back down.

I'm sure he probably would have sat someplace else. He had the choice. But there he was. And we were just talking about this. And I was telling him a story. And he said, you know, it sounds like you had an anti-mentor. Sometimes we have mentors and sometimes we have anti-mentors. And I've seen it done poorly many times.

And I've got to be honest with you, I've learned as much from that as I have people that have done it well. And so, I don't know, I'm just sharing that with you because we can learn a lot from seeing it done poorly. I see it in a lot of places also done well. But you ask the question. Let me answer. It might sound self-serving or something, but I honest to goodness mean it, that Dave Ramsey has more influence with me as a leader than anybody. that I've ever worked for before. And I'll tell you what did that, what started that with me, being transparent. I grew up on a farm. I grew up working hard. I grew up working in the field

on long, hot days. And so people that have a high work ethic have influence with me. People that are slackers don't. And so I've seen Dave any hours he keeps. I've worked with him on the road, going to our events. I've seen him stay later than anybody else and show up earlier than anybody else. load trucks and do all of those things. And that, you know, just because of who I am, that built a lot of influence. And I've seen him, I'll tell you something else. It happened just the other day, and you heard him do it in staff meeting. He took the blame for some stuff.

He said, this hasn't gone like I thought it was going to be. And that's my fault. And I didn't want to have to do this. But wisdom looks like me getting out of the way and letting smarter people handle this. And, man, that buys a lot of influence with me. humility. Yeah. That vulnerability mixed with wisdom and discernment, that's a great way to build trust. Yeah, absolutely. People think it's weak to express your vulnerability, but the fact of the matter is, there's nothing stronger as a leader that you can do. Yeah. So as we wrap here, you know,

these pieces are hard to self-evaluate. It's hard for you as a leader to go, yeah, I've got great rapport and credibility and trust. That's something that you have to get feedback from the team from and kind of be very observant of. How do you get that feedback in an honest way to gauge where you're at in this process. You know, that's an awesome question, and there's a lot of different ways. They're very structured ways to do it, and that's what coaching, our coaching program does is when you work with one of our coaches, we use assessments in 360, we get all that back, and we distill all that information, and that's super valuable. But I can tell you, it can be as simple as watching the room, looking at people's body language when you're talking, and seeing how you're affecting people. And if you

see people leaning back, you see people, you know, got their arms folded and they look like their, you know, their faces red. Something is a miss. Something is off. But you've got to, that seems very simple. Pay attention to people's body language. Okay, it's not any more complicated in that, but it's hard. It's hard for you to do that because you got to get out of your own way, you got to get up above the situation and ask yourself the question, how am I affecting these people in how I'm conducting myself. And the hardest part of that is three letters, ego. You've got to suppress, kill, detach from, whatever you want to say,

your ego enough to ask the question. I have the humility to ask the question. Gosh, I wonder how I'm being received, how I'm being experienced by George in this meeting and start to pay attention to it. And then come to you after the meeting and say, not judgmentally, you know, I'm not trying to read your mind, but just say, hey, George, I noticed when, when I was talking about what I thought we ought to do with this course, it seemed maybe like your body language changed.

Was I reading that right? Was I reading that wrong? And if you don't mind, what was that about? Then that gives you the opportunity to say, yeah, actually, I got a text from, you know, my cousin right before I walked in and got some bad news. I didn't, I'm sorry, John, but I didn't hear what you were saying, right? Or it's like, yeah, I can't believe you said that because we talked about this other thing and you totally took a 90 degree turn on me right in the middle of the meeting. Why did you do that?

It just opens the door to have that conversation. So just pay attention to how you're being experienced by other people. Super simple, super tough to do. Yeah. And a great book that I love as ego is the enemy from Ryan Holiday and that it really expounds on that in a cool way. So, John, I just want to say thank you for your time today. I love the way that you embody these principles, the way you've built rapport and credibility and trust and have influence with the Entree leadership team and many more on the Ramsey Solutions team. Thanks for being on with us. Thanks for letting me hang out. Always love having John Falcons on the podcast. As he just talked about, building trust and gaining influence on your team is key to your leadership success. But it can be hard to gauge

how effective you are as a leader. So our team has put together a leadership growth assessment that can help you measure your effectiveness to influence and lead. To take this quick assessment, just click the link in the show notes. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did leave us a review and subscribe so you don't miss the next one. And we want to hear what you think of the show, what you like, what you don't like, and what we could do better. You can give us your feedback by using the link in the show notes to schedule a call with Tim, our producer. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can follow us at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Jacob Harrison and Bob Borquez, and mixed and mastered by Will Rudder.

I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, you should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network, like The Dr. John Deloney Show. Mental health challenges and hurting relationships happen to everyone, but they don't have to define you. I'm Dr. John Deloney and I help people navigate through the messy things in their lives on the Dr. John Deloney's show. I'll walk alongside you as you face parenting, marriage, and other relationship challenges, and I'll walk alongside you as you try to connect with people as you face depression, overcome anxiety, and learn how to change your life.

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