EntreLeadership - How to Delegate Decision-Making the Right Way with Stacy Tuschl

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Join us as our host, George Kamel, talks to Stacy Tuschl, a bestselling author, speaker and the founder of multiple seven-figure businesses. She shares how to train your team to make decisions like you do by creating effective systems and processes. Later in the episode, George chats with Daniel Ramsey, the executive vice president of EntreLeadership, about how to delegate responsibilities when a leader leaves the company. You’ll learn: The danger of making all the decisions for your team If your team knows how you make decisions How delegation can free up your time How to keep going when a leader leaves Sign up for The EntreLeadership Podcast Takeaways—a weekly email where you’ll get three tangible takeaways and a tactical action step related to each week’s episode: https://bit.ly/podcast-takeaways Support our sponsors: BELAY: https://bit.ly/3epUiVK Hite Digital: https://bit.ly/HiteDigital NetSuite: https://bit.ly/NetSuiteEntre Exodus 90: https://bit.ly/Exodus90Entre Kyro Digital: https://bit.ly/KyroDigital Links: The EntreLeadership Podcast: https://bit.ly/TheEntreLeadershipPodcast Stacy Tuschl’s website: https://bit.ly/3qiLQO3 Foot Traffic Formula’s website: https://bit.ly/3qkbz8Q Learn more about EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/33aF7Nd Learn more about EntreLeadership Elite: https://bit.ly/30CezmJ Download The EntreLeader's Guide to Delegation: https://bit.ly/3HVfuyO Schedule a call with Tim, our producer: https://bit.ly/3bJOSmi Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: EntreLeadership Summit: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipSummit EntreLeadership Master Series: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipMasterSeries Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: Elite: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipElite Advisory Groups: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipAdvisoryGroups Executive Coaching: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipExecutiveCoaching Workshops: https://bit.ly/EntreLeadershipWorkshops Weekly Report Tool: https://bit.ly/WeeklyReportTool Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our app. Download the Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

John Maxwell says that your own leadership capabilities put a lid on the future success of your business. If you want to scale your team and grow your business, then you can't be the only one responsible for decision making. But how do you break the cycle of making all of the decisions and finally start delegating? From the Ramsey Network, this is the Entree Leadership podcast, where we help business leaders grow themselves, their teams, and their profits. I'm your host, George Camel, and today's episode is all about getting your team to make decisions without you, which connects to our business driver of people. Our first guest today is Stacey Tushel. She's a best-selling author, speaker, and owner of multiple seven-figure businesses.

She's also the creator of foot traffic formula, where she helps small business owners get more customers in their door, more profit in their pockets, and more happiness in their homes. And she's going to talk about training your team to make decisions and create systems and processes to help you delegate. In our second conversation, I talk with EVP of Entree leadership, Daniel Ramsey. and he talks about how to delegate responsibilities when a leader leaves the company. We'll also talk about how to not only fill that gap,

but also create opportunities for growth for you and your team. Up first, we've got our conversation with Stacey Tushel. Stacey, welcome to the Entry Leadership Podcast. Thanks for having me, George. I'm super excited to be here. We're going to have a conversation about delegation, which is something most leaders listening struggle with, and how to get your team to do things the way you want it done, how to let go, that can be a very difficult thing. And you've got tons of experience in this

as you've run multiple businesses. So tell me, give me a story of a time you were leading your team at maybe one of the dance studios, and you found yourself making way too many of the decisions. Yeah. Oh, I have a really random but crazy story of I was taking time away. I had a friend who had a dance studio in Utah. And she just was giving back. I said, I love your studio. I'd love to come learn from you. I was willing to pay her. And she's like, no, come hang out with us. So I came there with my sister, who is actually a general manager. And the two of us were there and we were sitting down. She gave us the day to spend with her. And we're kind of phone on the side, texting back and forth with something. And she can see we're distracted. And she finally

said, okay, what's going on? How can I help you? And it was like, oh, no, no, no, just the kids are tie-dying at the studio, and they forgot the rubber bands. And this is an emergency. This is an emergency. We are literally having, we flew to Utah from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We have this incredible woman's attention for 24 hours, and we are texting about rubber bands, and who can get them. And it was almost one of the biggest lightball moments for me of, what are you doing?

Why do two people at this level need to be getting rubber bands? When we already had employees, we had team members back at home that can do it. And it was funny when we were leaving the next morning. She's like, oh, I have a gift for you. I'm like, oh, a gift. Like you've already given me so much. And at Office Max, they have that rubber ball, big ball of rubber bands. And she gave it to me and said, so you'll never have to worry about rubber bands ever again.

And it was just, and I kept it. I kept it on my office desk, still have it today. and it's that reminder of letting go, especially on the little decisions. Like that was such a silly thing to be worrying about. Wow. So every time someone walks in and sees your desk, they're like, what's up with the rubber band? And you get to tell the story of delegation and how you took too much on.

Yeah. And those little things, I mean, every leader has had that rubber band moment who's listening. And they're going, I really shouldn't be dealing with this. I don't know why I am, but the teams are lying on me, and I need to make sure that I serve them. And you feel the pressure. to just do it all. How did you end up letting go?

Well, that was definitely a game-changer moment for me. I already thought I was delegating, but then there's always that next level you don't know exists. And for me, it was, you're right, just take care of it. We're going to be busy today. We're working on the business. I trust you. And I think a lot of times you think you're delegating,

but the person back at home in the office doing the things is thinking, oh, but I need her opinion. I need to know what he would do in this situation. And we finally had to say, no, I trust you. You take care of it. Whatever needs to get done, you just do it. And we'll talk about it when we get back home. And now I can go to an amazing event like Master Series.

I can be gone the whole week, not interrupted, and come back. And then they fill us in with anything important we need to discuss. But really truly having time to be on a vacation, right, maybe be on a maternity leave, enjoying time with your new baby? Like, things like that are so important. So I think that was the biggest thing is really passing the baton and saying, okay, you've got this. Yeah.

And at worst case, you know, this might come from this kind of savior complex. Like, well, I'm the only one who can make these calls and they trust me. And best case, it may be a lack of trust with the team. And that points to some bigger systemic issues when you're going, I can't trust the team to choose the rubber bands and make this thing happen. So it's easy to get caught up in the cycle of making these decisions. for your team. What's wrong with doing that as a leader? Yeah. Oh, man. I am constantly, even at this level, 19 years in, still going, what's the next level of delegation? And I was at an

event and I was speaking, but then we gave one of our team members 30 minutes to take the stage. And it was a small little workshop. It wasn't a stage where I would have jumped on stage. It was very easy for me to walk over and be right by her. And I could catch myself trying to jump into that conversation. And I realized I am showing her that I don't trust her by doing it or that I don't think she can handle it. So even though I did it a couple of times, I backed up and then I even acknowledged it and said, listen, that was me, not you. Because in her mind, she's probably thinking, I must not be doing a good enough job if Stacey keeps coming back over. Right. So I had to say to her, no, you're doing phenomenal. This is something I have to

work on as a leader, and I'm going to get better at it, but you're doing great. So I think being careful that you doing that isn't making them think, what am I doing wrong? Or even maybe being a little disrespectful, right, not showing them the true respect they deserve. Yeah, as a team member, you feel like, well, I guess I'm incapable because they're micromanaging me and telling me I'm not doing a good enough job because they're standing over my shoulder, trying to make every decision for me so that I don't mess up. And sometimes you just have to let go. And if they fail, it can be a teaching moment.

And that's how you grow. But sitting there micromanaging every decision, not letting go, that's a recipe for disaster, for sure. So how did you start to break the cycle as you starts to delegate the decision-making to your team members? Well, I think when people start to delegate, they just go, okay, here you go, you go, try this, George, like, go for it. And then you don't know how to do it because you've never done it.

And then there will inevitably be mistakes, which then makes you think. see, I was right. He doesn't know how to do it, right? Self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, my goodness. We have to train. We have to put energy and effort into the person. We want to pass that baton to. So if you don't feel that maybe you can trust them with the rubber bands or a bigger decision, then what can you do to put that time and energy into them, right? Really good onboarding. And then after you're onboarding, consistently meeting, discussing, you know, having those once a week, weekly meetings with direct reports to say, how can I support you?

Or I'd love to have you learned this skill. Let's start working on that together. And then I always tell people, it's really three phases. It's not just, hey, could you do this? It's watch me do this, right? Let me show you how. Then let's do it together. If you have any questions, you can stop me, let me know.

And then it's, why don't you try it? But I'll be here if you need something. that those three stages now that can take maybe months maybe years depending on how big the task is but it's so worth it to give them that time and that energy and then you go oh my goodness I'm here doing this right now but back home they're getting X Y Z done and that's exciting I do wonder if you know someone listening to this is going hey that sounds great but they don't have the patience to wait months to train someone so they go I'll just do it myself we don't have time for this or they don't know how to train because it's all in their head

and they've never taken the time to put the process in place to make the training happen. And so a lot of the times it just points back to poor leadership, unfortunately. But in your head, you go, well, they're just incapable and I've been doing it longer. And so I know how it's done. So I'll just keep doing it. And you keep being the lid on your own business.

And so you're only hurting yourself and your team. And so it's a very interesting predicament that you find yourself in when you struggle with Deliq. obligation. Well, and I always wonder, how many people have I let go of, that it was really not them, it was poor leadership. And if I would have given them the time, they could have, I know, it's crazy when you think of that. What could have been? Yeah, and retaining good people, that's a huge struggle as well. And a lot of times you go, well, they just weren't the right fit and they couldn't figure it out. Instead of saying, pointing the finger back at yourself and going, I did not do a

good job investing in my team, making them feel capable, making sure they knew. what to do. Wow. So I want to talk about how to train your team to make decisions like you do, how to intercept your brain into theirs. That's one of the biggest struggles. I mean, if you could bottle that up and sell it, you'd be a billionaire. Oh, yeah. And it's a difficult thing to do to delegate that and make sure they do it the right way. And the right way is the way you want it done. Just so, just so happens to be that way. So how did you begin to train your team to make decisions like you do? So this is where our company values really mean something. thing and they matter in the business. A lot of times when people, and I've heard company values for years,

and I would look at somebody's and say, yeah, those look good. And I would put them on a nice little piece of paper, put them on the wall and say, those are our company values. And now our company values actually mean something. They are really important to us. And it's the way that I would like the business to be run. And I make sure that it's not just my value, but I find people who have the same values when they come into the business. So when we're looking at those values and we're hiring, we're looking at what are they displaying? Are they displaying integrity or do they show up late to the interview, right, and not take maybe ownership or accountability for what just happened? So we're looking at those values to say, okay, well, if we are in alignment with our values, they're going to make

decisions very similar to you in that regard right there. That's, I think the biggest step is knowing them and having them actually mean something. The next thing is, again, really spending the time to show them what does this look like. So if, you know, a lot of times things are on computer. It's so easy to record a system, you know, recorded on loom, recorded on Zoom, have something there where they can go back and watch you do it, right, and have that start to be something where they can say, wait, I'm stuck. Okay, I'm just going to go watch that video, rewind and do it. Now, sometimes it's not on the computer. Okay, great. We'll have them be with you in that physical location and watch what you're doing and have them write out the notes in the system. We've got to get it out of your head and on a paper.

Now, they're not going to keep that paper or have that video nonstop, but it starts to become a reference for, here is how we do things. And if you have questions, go reference that piece of paper or go reference that video on this specific system. And over time, that can kind of become muscle memory. Yes. And one of the hardest things is the idea of kind of critically thinking the same way that you would. Yeah. Because sometimes there is a process that you can put into place, say, this is how to do the spreadsheet. Yes.

But sometimes you're at kind of a crossroads and you need to make a decision and filter it through a certain framework. Is there a way that you've kind of transferred? Here's how to think critically about the situation. Here's what to do if and when this happens. Yes. So this was another one of those points of my sister, who's the general manager, came to me and said, you're getting mad at me when I make a decision without you, but yet you don't want me to interrupt you, because we have an evening business and a weekend business, but you don't want me to interrupt you at 5 p.m.

So how can I run and lead the business if you're always going to be upset? And we came up with this system about systems. And we said, okay, if there is no system on this and you have to come up with it from scratch, yes, you're right. I don't want to be interrupted in the evenings or on the weekends unless it's an emergency. I am giving you full authority to make whatever decision you want. Then the next day when we meet, we're going to talk about the non-system and what you did. I will not judge it.

I will thank you for handling it, right? And then we'll say, okay, what is the future system for this? Did we like the way you did it? Was there anything about it we could change? Because sometimes even she'll say, well, this is what I did in the moment. But now looking back, I probably would have done it this way. And we'll craft that system together. You're not going to have a system for everything.

So again, you've got to be able to trust certain people on your team to say, okay, make this decision without me. Now, every level or layer of our team has different authority on what they're able to do. Different levels of refunds, different levels of crediting people or gifting people something, right? And they can always go to their next manager who's going to have a different level of authority. That makes sense. That's interesting. And there's a level of self-awareness and composure and patience that you need to have as a leader when you go, hey, do what you think is best.

And we'll talk about it the next day. and I'm not going to judge it. I'm not going to tell you how bad of a job you did. I'm just going to go, here's the system that we should put in place based on that. Yeah, and working with my sister, and I know lots of your listeners. Family business. It's very easy to be like, what were you thinking? I would never have done it this way, right?

You resort back to the 16-year-old fighting with the sister. And that for her was really frustrating, and I'm so grateful she was able to say to my face, this is really bugging me the way that you treat me after I've done something where I think I'm doing the best thing I can with you. your best interest, but no, it wasn't the perfect way that you want, like, again, the perfect way, my way, right? So, and again, I was freaking out about more rubber band situations where I'm like, no, it wasn't my way, but she got it done, and she did it in a way that gave a great customer experience,

and it's okay. So the result was there. The process may have looked different than you would have done it, but at the end of the day, the customer was served and all as well. Absolutely. And you need to just let go and go, okay. Yeah. Yeah, that's strong.

So how did you know when this was working? What was the measuring stick where you went, oh my gosh, this delegation thing? I'm training the team and it's actually going well. Yeah. How do I know when it was working? Well, you definitely know when it's not working by the constant text and the constant emails and people kind of giving you the responsibility. You almost don't realize the moment it starts working because nothing's happening, right?

You're not getting a text. Things are smooth. Yes. You're not getting all these emails. It's all of a sudden one day you look back and go, oh, they're like doing things without me and it's it is working and people are happy and we're still getting great reviews and you know nice compliments and all of that so I think it definitely takes some time to all of a sudden notice because you're not as aware of what's not going on going you know through those notifications and text messages

yeah and 90% of that is probably very exciting as the leader you're going oh my gosh yes I'm not getting all the text but 10% may be this like oh my gosh do they even need me do I even matter Yeah. What am I here for? Have you ever felt that? Yeah. So this is how my second business actually started, was I walked into the dance school, and I had delegated so much out that they didn't need me.

I mean, I delegated everything. And all of a sudden I walked in, had nothing to do that day, walked in, and there was a few key players, and they were in a meeting. And I could tell I was interrupting, and they were kind of trying to go, what do you need? Like, do you need anything? Because we're doing something here. And I, it was so exciting, but the excitement wasn't there for me as much as almost like a sadness of, wait, this is my business and why I think it took me a little bit to kind of

grieve the moment of I did this and I did it on purpose. But now I was missing some sort of like fulfillment. I was missing, well, where do I fit in? So I decided, okay, I want to start to continue to educate myself. What is next for me? how can I continue to really step into my passion. And that's how foot traffic actually started was I wanted a place where I got to teach others and share because this is one of my passions.

So it's exciting, but you want to make sure, like, a lot of us are workers. We like to work. We like to get in the business. You like to make a lot of the decisions. Yeah, right. So you've got to make sure you find a place for yourself and you really decide what do I want this to look like. That's hilarious.

So you said, well, they don't need me. I'm going to go start another business where I can feel needed. And I could have stayed in that business and said, you know what? No, I'm going to take this to three locations. I'm going to franchise it. But for me at that time, I kind of felt not complete because it's still growing, but I felt like this was what I was supposed to create. And now it was time for me to go and give back and share and teach people because it is sad

when I go to a conference and I'm enjoying it and I look next to me and the woman is texting her people and then emailing and then she's running out in the hallway. I want to help that person who is the business is her. It is him, right there just consumed by it. And that's, I think, where I realize my real passion of. I'm going to really share what I've learned over the years. So what was this kind of net result that you were feeling once you've delegated, you got the team to make the decisions for you?

How did that feel? I mean, definitely two sides. It felt incredible because it's still the feeling. I am still here with a business that is running right now, they're open, I am not even there in the state, right? And I won't even be there today at all. And it's running without me. And people always say, well, when will you retire?

I don't see the need to retire when you have a business that can really, truly run without your every need and every decision to be made. So it's a really exciting and empowering feeling. And I think a sense of security, right? To know that if something were to happen to me, that business will continue to produce revenue for my family because the business doesn't need me. So my husband can still take it on and it will run without it without me. So definitely a level of security and all of that.

But then yes, there's always, okay, but now what? What's the next challenge? What's the next? So you've got to be really careful that you're not constantly just starting because it can get really exciting to start the next business and the next thing and the next thing. But is it truly at a place where it can continue to run and run like a well-oiled machine? Yeah. It's an incredible way to know that you've leveled up in business when you don't need to be in it every day for it to be working.

And, you know, Dave Ramsey has done this so well. And now he's kind of focusing on the new things and the broken things. And he loves doing that stuff versus the day-to-day, the maintenance mode. He's got an incredible leadership team where he doesn't have to be in every meeting and make every decision. I mean, it would crush him. I mean, over 1,000 people and all the decisions that get made around here, you've got to learn to let go and do it as early as possible. if you want to get to that next stage in business. And I think your ego has to drop of,

my way isn't the only way, right? There are other incredible ideas, and sometimes you just got to let go and let somebody else say, hey, I've got an idea. So as part of this process of delegating, we talked about having systems and processes in place. We know that that's important

when you begin to delegate and train. What were some of those systems and processes that you put in place that was really a game changer? I think the biggest thing is the decision making, right, putting policies into place and looking at where are the bottlenecks or what are some of the frustrations, what are things that are happening? So if somebody comes back and they're upset, if a teacher is late for a class to start, that would happen. You know, we're hiring kids right out of high school sometimes, right? We're hiring the 21-year-old. What happens when she's 10 minutes late to class?

What will you do? What is the policy? We didn't have policies. We would just go, oh, no, now what do we do? Who are we calling? Are we getting a sub? is she coming? What's happening? Are we refunding them? Are we giving them 10 minutes extra? Then everybody else has delayed the rest of the day. So we had to look at what are the biggest frustrations?

What are the most common things that are happening over and over again? And then how do we start to say, not in the heat of it? What do we do? But hey, let's talk about what happened yesterday. And what would be a good policy to put into place in the future? Now, I know the word policy sounds so negative. But it's really just what is the system that we would like to do to make sure that we're still giving a great customer experience even when we mess up. Yeah. You can wow people and mistakes, right? We talk about branding a lot on this podcast and a strong brand is consistent. And when you show up and they go, well, last time I was here, the process was this and I got a refund. Now you're telling me you guys don't do refunds. So having that process in place not only helps your whole team make

those decisions, but it does create that customer experience where they go, I know exactly how they're going to deal with this. They've been very upfront. They've communicated this well. And the customer goes, I trust them. I like them. I'll do business again. Yeah. And especially when you have multiple team members fulfilling, right, in that same department, you have to say, listen, I know you thought you could stick around for an extra five minutes, but then they're going to expect it from the next person and the next person. So we've got to be on the same page. We've got, and that's where you can get certain people involved and say, help us make this decision together. What would feel really good for you? And then let's come up with a unified way of doing it. And then let's make sure everyone is on the

same page. Yeah. So as you delegated the day-to-day decisions, you started training the team, you have the systems and processes in place. What did that allow you to focus your time on instead? The things you should have been doing all along, right? There are big things to be doing the business. Rubber bands is not one, right? Marketing, looking at, like you said, what is the brand? what are, do we need to be changing our company values? Did I put some fluffy things on the wall and they mean nothing to the business? Should I take some time and be the visionary today and think about what's actually important, right? So I think being able to look at the big picture, where are we going, becoming a better leader? That's the exciting part, is not just how do I grow myself? How do I grow

the people that I'm working with right now? You start to build these amazing relationships with them. And one of the coolest things we get to do is give back and help them become the best version of themselves. So I think that's one of the things where there are bigger things you need to be doing than those little things that you don't have to have your hands in. Yeah. And instead of a once a year strategy and vision meeting, this is something you can be thinking about every day. Every day. And rise above the business and really help to figure out what are the systemic things that I need to be working on that can help us get to that next level instead of dealing with the rubber band situation. I mean, imagine if every week, every Friday, you had something on your calendar where you just said, what didn't work last week? How could I fix that? What could we do different next time? Or what was the last upset complaint we had? What could we do to make sure that that never happens again? How could I reach back out to that person and fix it? I mean, like I said before, you can wow people in mistakes, right? Mistakes are when things are good, it's really easy for everybody to love you, right? When things go wrong, this is where you're true.

Root Colors show. And even going back to say, how do we fix what happened last time? How do we go back and make her go, wow? That is really amazing that they just did that. Yeah, that's incredible. And it really does change things as the leader, as the business owner, when you can focus on the things that really matter instead of being in that day to day. So as these leaders, they try to delegate, they try to raise new leaders, put the systems

and processes in place. This is a lot of work while trying to run the business and do. all the things that they have to do and be with their family and and and and. So what encouragement and advice would you give to all of us as we start to train and put those systems in place? This is not an overnight process. This will take you, don't even say it, because I don't want to scare people either. This is an ongoing long-term process. You never say all the systems are done.

They're good to go. By the time you're done putting systems in place, there will be a system that is broken. Or you will break the system because the business has grown. Right? Or maybe you have new levels of leadership in place and now that doesn't even make sense. So systems is not a project. It is an ongoing thing, just like marketing. Imagine saying, well, when am I going to be done marketing? Never. You're never done marketing. You're never done training, leading, putting systems in a place. So I would highly recommend because I'm busy. I get it. I know people are so busy here. I would say, look at your calendar. Look at your weekly, what you're doing.

and say, okay, every Friday for a half day, I'm going to spend time starting to put systems in a place and to get my leaders on board to help me doing this, right? And every Friday, if you could just do that every single week, imagine what that's going to look like by the end of the year, right? So I would say just find a little chunk of time and start to consistently do this, and pretty soon you will have a very different looking business. Yeah, you've got to make it a part of your day-to-day where you're going, I'm always training people. I'm always meeting with leaders and helping raise new leaders up. Have you found

that as you raise new leaders up, they can then, they delegate and you delegate and it starts to have this domino effect? Absolutely, because as I am working on myself and trying to become a better leader, I'm teaching the people that are directly reporting to me. And when I'm teaching them, now they're going back to that level and saying, hey, listen, I want to work with you on this, or I want to help you with that, right? So there's absolutely a domino effect. But if you don't start that, it will not trickle its way down. So you've got to be the person that starts it. Be the one to start.

You are the lid. And once you can delegate that, it opens things up in an incredible way. Well, I'm just, I'm so impressed with what you've been able to build with these seven-figure businesses, the way you've been able to delegate. I feel like there's an ease about you.

Like there's a weight off of your shoulders just in talking with you that I feel. I mean, you're a high-power business owner and you're here in Nashville hanging out with us with not a care in the world because you trust your team. Yeah, George. Thank you so much. That means so much to me. And you're right. I'm not even thinking about the

businesses. Obviously, we're talking about them. So I'm thinking about them when I'm speaking about them, but I'm not worried about them. I'm not thinking, what are they doing right now? What email's coming in? I don't have to worry about that. That's a blessing for sure. Definitely. Well, Stacey, thank you so much for being on the podcast. Love the way you're practicing what you're preaching and the way you've been able to delegate to your team. Thank you so much. Big thanks to Stacey for stopping by the Entree Leadership Studio and having a great conversation. As she talked about, if you want your business to grow, you've got to get really good at delegation. But how do you delegate when a leader leaves your company and you have a gap to fill?

And how do you deal with the potential loss of morale, revenue, and productivity? We'll have a conversation about that right after this. All right, our second conversation, I talk with Daniel Ramsey. He's the executive vice president of Entree leadership, and he'll share the best way to communicate to your team when a leader leaves and show you how to move forward with confidence. here's our conversation. Daniel, good to have you back on the podcast.

Man, so good to be here. Thank you, George. We are in this wild new year, and it turns out this is kind of a year anniversary of you leading the Entree leadership team. That's right. It's been over a year now, which is wild to think about.

Yeah, we just had a conversation with the team this morning, actually talking about all the stuff that's happened last year as we looked forward to this year. And so, yeah, I've been reflecting a lot recently, and it's been, honestly, it might be one of the best years of my life.

I had our first son this year, me and my wife, mentioned that a few times on the podcast before. He is just precious. But yeah, I mean, between that and being a part of this team, I've hired a ton of people. We've lost a few people. You know, I think last year was pretty crazy with the Great Resignation, and, you know, we weren't exempt from that either. Yeah. Well, I want to jump into that side of things and talk about how to delegate responsibilities when a leader leaves the company. And this is something, unfortunately, that you've had some experience with in different leadership roles here at Ramsey.

And it's just, it's part of leadership. It's part of, you know, running a company. There's going to be people that come and there's going to be people that go. And so as you found yourself in those situations, how do you communicate that in the best way to the team? Because that can be a difficult thing. Yeah, we're all going to go through it. This is a natural part of being a leader.

And so being prepared for it is incredibly important. And so we just have a simple process here at Ramsey that we like to follow when it comes to communication because the team finding out is so important and so sensitive because the relationships that team members have with their leaders. And so the first thing that we like to do is sit down and plan out the communication. We don't let it happen organically. We don't want it to be a water cooler type conversation.

We as a leader take charge of the communication plan. And so the first thing you do is you list out who needs to know in order. And that order should be who is closest to the leader and who is furthest away. So you should start communication with the people who need to know first. And so that may be the people that are direct peers, it's typically direct peers with someone that leaves. If they're a leader, it's talking to the leadership team about them leaving and having them in the room and talking through that as a group. Having them in the room if it's appropriate, depends on how they left. You know, the next step would be the team that they lead.

So getting those people together and talking to them. And then the whole team. And so I often in the middle of that as well, just encourage that leader to connect with the people they're close to because the last thing you want to happen is someone that they're close to finding out in a large group format meeting, and it's a surprise to them. You want to honor the relationships of a person leaving by communicating in order of who they were close to, who they worked most with. And, you know, when you're communicating, it's best to just be honest and open. The more you try to hide something or to skirt around it or make it sound better than it is, people read through that. And be authentic,

be straight up. Now, if the team member has left for a bad reason, maybe there's a moral failure, there's some extent you can share the team, but you really want to honor the team member leaving. So you never want to dishonor them by telling the dirty secrets or the, you know, they're-erring out their laundry. Exactly, exactly. And so one really important thing to do is no matter how they're leaving, you as their leader should honor them, no matter what. And so you can always find ways to honor them. But it is not appropriate for you to say, good riddance or for you to say things that take shots at them because really what matters most is that you're caring for the person who's leaving and secondly it sends a message to the team

if you are saying negative things about them after they've left it says a clear message of the team that that if you leave team member that you're going to be treated this way too and so you have to be consistent and you just have to honor everyone you work with yeah as part of the fallout with someone leaving, there can be a loss of morale, revenue, productivity. How do you keep from losing those things? How do you kind of protect those? Man, well, for me personally, I'll probably take that route. It's hard to really get the team to work on their morale, except just to talk about it and to have an open-door policy. But for me personally, I'll kind of walk you through how I deal with that. You know, it's been hard at different times in my career, in my life,

but I've been through this many times, and all leaders have. And, and I've been through this many times. And And perspective is really what helps you get through it. Perspective. So if there's people often say like, you know, in loss, you can become calloused. You know, you can become heart of heart and not, you know, not really like owning the change or internalizing the pain. Or you can become bitter and jaded towards the person leaving. And really like you can't let either those things happen.

You have to rise above those things. And you have to see this change as an opportunity. This is an opportunity for you to grow. It's an opportunity for you to step above. it's an opportunity for your team. And so as much as you need to acknowledge the pain of the change, you have to embrace the good things of the change and embrace the future of what it has in store.

And so for me, man, I always think back to a story I had when I first became a leader. I took my first leadership role, gosh, six or so years ago. And in this, I had a right-hand guy. His name was Robbie, and he was awesome. We were really close friends. And we love, I loved working with Robbie. He was so smart.

and so good at his job, and I relied on him so much. And we worked together for about six months, and then he came in and talked about this opportunity he had at a different company, and he ended up moving and taking that role, and it was a really good thing for him and his family. And it left me in a little bit of a bind, right? Like, he did a great job at handing stuff off, but he carried so much water.

It was overwhelming for me to think about how am I going to do what he did, how am I going to move forward without him? We've all probably been there as leaders. And for me, you know, I went through that morning process, but on the other side of it, I am so, I was so thankful that God, this was part of God's plan of Robbie taking this opportunity that was better for him and his family. And also in many ways, better for me and my career growth and our company. It forced me to grow in ways that I never thought I would grow or I would never push myself had this change not happened. And so I had to step up in new ways.

And I also had the ability to hire people under me and to delegate those responsibilities. and raise those leaders up in new ways. And so whenever I go through a big leadership change, I always know that it's going to be painful for a season, but if we can really get above this situation, we're going to be better for in the long run. Yeah, it's interesting to think about, as you look back in hindsight and go,

I wonder if we would have been here if that hadn't happened, if that leader stayed, because of kind of the force change that needs to happen. People need to step up. People are forced to grow. And sometimes you need that to get to where you want to go. So talk to me about what that process looks like. You have this gap in front of you with this leader leaving,

and now you've got to delegate and you've got to go, do I have someone internally that can step up? Do I hand this off to multiple people? Is there one person? Do we need to hire from the outside? How do you think through that? Yeah, so here at Entry Leadership, we talk a lot about key results areas, a KRA.

So having a KRA for your team members. So hopefully you have that in place. If you don't, a KRA really outlines what someone is responsible for owning. And so if you don't have that, you need to actually make a list of that. You need to sit down and say, hey, all right, this key person's leaving. What areas of responsibility were they carrying that I need to account for? And so you list that out, and then you take it point by point. Rarely ever do you hand all of that stuff off

to a single person or rarely ever do you take it on all yourself. But you look at that list, and there's three things you can do with the items on that list. You can take it on yourself. So you add that responsibility to your plate. You can delegate it to someone else. on your team, or you can make the decision to stop doing that thing altogether. That's typically the hardest thing, but sometimes it's necessary. And sometimes saying no is a not now. It's saying, we're not going to do this right now. We'll pick it up when we get the staff or when we grow to a place where we can handle that again.

But those are the three things. It's really take it on yourself, del get into others, or saying not now and putting it off to the side. So what does that look like with the team? Do you ever found that there's this kind of competitive nature where the team says, oh, well, why did Daniel give that person that role or those duties instead of me? I've been really wanting this leadership opportunity. Are there people in the organization that have been wanting this opportunity and they see it as their chance to step up?

From what I've experienced, there's always a next up mentality, or at least the teams I've been a part of, when somebody does leave, people do, you know, they're sad for that person leaving, they're sad for that relationship, but they are excited for the opportunity you give them. And so you're going to have people stepping up. you're going to have people asking for that responsibility. What I typically do is I don't make any quick decisions on that. For the things that I have, the margin to not make a quick decision,

I try to take a week and talk to different people on the team about the KRA, the key result areas that we talked about earlier. And I say, hey, of these things, does anything stand out to you? Are you passionate about any of these things? And naturally, people are going to, like, let them speak into it. Don't just assign them stuff, but let them speak into it. So I put fuelers out there with different team members. members that I have in mind. I also often have team members come to me who want to take on more,

who I know as a leader, it would drown them. They're already barely keeping their head above water, and one more thing might be good for their short-term career. It would be a bad thing overall for them as a person in this season. And so, yeah, I've had that, all of that happened this year where I've gotten to sit down with people. And some people, I didn't know if they had the ability to do it. And so I kind of had a slow roll of that. I gave them a little bit of projects, watch them prove themselves before I gave them fully the responsibility that they have now. Yeah, that's something that I've seen you just be so great at, is being aware of who's on the team, what are their skills, what can they bring to this, who can take on this role to where it

doesn't drown them. And that's something that I think a lot of leaders maybe don't have the bandwidth for, it's not something they're looking out for. How can a leader grow in that area where they're just connected to the team and they understand that piece? man it's all about gosh we've talked about this on another podcast it's all about just being really aware of your team really knowing them and being able to scan the room and just know them when you're in meetings being able to watch them closely and see like hey how what is their capacity how much do they have to be able to take on additional things are they drowning are they stressed how can i as a leader help them manage their stress better so i can increase

their future capacity we always have to be investing and developing our team Because naturally, if your team's not growing, gosh, like you're failing as a leader. You have to be developing and growing your team. And part of that is knowing them and seeing what ways you need to develop them. And, you know, there's always several team members that I have to lean into and help them teach them the tools to manage their stress so that I can increase their future capacity. Yeah. While there are a lot of downsides to someone leaving, there's so many good things that can come out of this with this kind of natural stretching that it does to the team. and if you're a leader listening to this,

you've either experienced this or you're going to experience this. So how would you encourage that leader who may be going to the situation going, all right, how do I stop this from becoming a fire and how can I be confident in navigating the situation when it happens? Yeah.

You know, I would say it's perspective, like I mentioned earlier, you have to have the perspective of, hey, a short-term pain is going to create long-term opportunity for you, your business, and your team. And so don't allow that pain to cause you to panic

and make rash decisions, but have long-term perspective. And so when change comes, embrace it. Don't panic. You need to feel the feelings and embrace the morning process that you have to go through, but you also need to see that this isn't doom and gloom. This isn't the end of your company because a key person leaves. It's the beginning of a new chapter. And so you can't let the fear of losing people stop you from investing into them. You have to always develop into them. And really, you have to have an open hand. Very few people are going to retire from your company. Most are going to change jobs multiple times, especially if you're high and younger people. And so you have to have an open hand knowing that, hey, I'm going to develop and pour myself into someone else and make them a better version of themselves.

And one day, they're probably going to leave and go to a different company. And also, man, if you're doing that constantly, hopefully the world kind of does you a favor and you bring in team members who have had great leadership, who have been poured into who now you get to take on. and so it all kind of what comes around goes around in that way. So you have to have an open hand. Are there any kind of tools that they can put in their tool belt outside of that? Let's say they don't have time to, you know, make this level of investment. Or there's something that they can get plugged into that can go, hey, I can develop the team now. And they can help me make these decisions.

They can help take the load. Sure. Well, I'll say two things. First is prayer. Prayer is the biggest tool I have in my tool belt for navigating situations like this. And, you know, bringing in the right people. I really do feel like God this year has blessed us with incredible talent. We've hired 28 people onto the entree team.

Wow. So that's been incredible. But a more tactical tool that we can give you that entre leadership can provide our audience is Entry Leadership Elite. It's our membership that we help walk alongside business owners with their issues. And we're actually developing courses right now, new video courses to teach different topics. And we're doing one on delegation right now. And so that should release soon shortly.

We're really excited about that. But we're pumping out these courses and we're going to deep dive much more specific than we've had the chance to today on how to delegate and how to adjust with change as you lead your business. Man, that's awesome. Well, Daniel, I love your perspective, your wisdom, your discernment, all of the stuff that you bring not only to the Entry leadership team, but to Ramsey's solutions as a whole and, of course, to our listeners today. So thanks so much for being on the podcast. Thanks, George. Appreciate you. Always great having Daniel Ramsey on the Entree Leadership podcast.

Listen, if you find yourself in the place where you need to delegate responsibilities so that you can focus on the business goals, you need a clear path to get there. And our team has put together a free resource for you called the Entree Leaders Guide to Delegation. In it, we've got 10 basics of delegation, some questions you need to be asking, and a checklist to put it all into action. To get this free resource, just click the link in the show notes. Hope you enjoyed today's episode of the show. If you did, leave us a review and subscribe so you don't miss the next one. and we want to hear what you think of the show what you like, what you don't like,

and what we could do better. Give us your feedback by using the link in the show notes to schedule a call with Tim, our producer. If you want to keep up with us on social media, you can follow us at Entree Leadership. This episode was produced by Tim Hull, edited by Jacob Harrison and Bob Borquez, and mixed and mastered by Will Rudder.

I'm your host, George Camel, and on behalf of the entire Entree Leadership team, thanks for listening. Until next time, keep learning and keep leading. If you enjoy this podcast, You should check out other great podcasts from the Ramsey Network like the Ken Coleman Show. Are you doing what you were born to do? I'm Ken Coleman, host of the Ken Coleman Show,

where I give you practical advice to help you discover your purpose and then map out a plan to get you there. From accounting to advertising, from plumbing to production, you were created to fill a unique role, and the world needs what you have to offer. Join me on the Ken Coleman Show wherever you listen to podcasts.