EntreLeadership - How to Lead a Business When You’re Clueless

Episode Date: June 19, 2023

Today, we’ll hear about: •       How to lead a business when you have no formal business training •       Why Gen Z isn’t the problem in today’s workforce •       What to do with a team member who’s great at what they do, but lacks people smarts •       Why offering equity of your company to non-owners is often disastrous •       How to not let a small number of difficult customers drain you emotionally Links mentioned in this episode: •       The EntreLeadership Podcast •       The Ideal Team Player by Patrick Lencioni •       Get your tickets for EntreLeadership Summit 2024 •       Have a question for The EntreLeadership Podcast? Leave a voicemail at 844.944.1070 or submit your question for a chance to be on the show with Dave Ramsey: https://www.entreleadership.com/ask Start growing in business and leadership with the EntreLeadership Newsletter. Sign up to receive tactical tools, advice and resources in your inbox every week: https://bit.ly/3IRWnsL Support our sponsors: •       NetSuite •       BELAY •       Payority •       Staples Learn more about EntreLeadership Events: •       EntreLeadership Summit •       EntreLeadership Master Series Learn more about EntreLeadership Coaching: •       Elite •       Advisory Groups •       Executive Coaching •       Workshops Listen to all the Ramsey Network podcasts anytime, anywhere in our Ramsey Network app: https://apple.co/3eN8jNq Learn more about your ad choices: https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy: https://www.ramseysolutions.com/company/policies/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Entree Leadership Podcast, where I take calls from leaders like you about what it takes to win at any stage of business and leadership. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, with over 30 years of experience leading in the trenches. Hey, if you got a question and you want to answer from someone who actually did it today, I'll try. I'll do my best to answer your question. Give us a call. Leave a voicemail, and we will put you on the show here and let you be a caller. 4-944-1070 is the number 844-9-44-1070. Or you can fill out the form and our guys will get back to you either way.

Entreeleadership.com slash ask. And then basically you're saying, I want to be on the show. And, well, you and I will have a chance to talk that way. Chris is in Atlantic City, New Jersey. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Entree Leadership podcast. Hi, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call and offering some wisdom.

We'll give it a shot, bro. What's up? I'm a principal. I'm an engineering company. Newly in the position of a, we call it director of business operations taking over for a founding partner. We are a civil engineering land development firm, 2022 revenue, which 14 million. Wow, good. So, Plain simple is, my question is, how do I lead business development when I zero business training?

Okay. How are you running operations when you have zero business training? Just the founding partner did it since he founded in 1989. And about 10 years ago, I just started asking questions. How do we do this? How do we do that? And I slowly transitioned into doing more and more of it. But now that founding partner wants to do what he started the business for.

And his design and art skills, I'll say, that he enjoys. So I'm basically taking over the business part of it. I do have him as a safety net to check. Yeah, but you've been doing a lot of it already. Yes, I have it. So the only question is just developing the team, helping the team to grow. And so the business development would typically fall into two areas. One would be just general growth, personal growth, and then the other would be within the disciplines, right?

Yes. So your tech guys have to develop their tech skills further. Your engineering guys and gals have to develop their engineering skills further. And that's very discipline-oriented. And those are going to be probably led by someone in the disciplines. That's what we do at Ramsey. For instance, I don't need to be teaching coding since I can't code, right? And so that's a discipline thing, but in terms of within the particular discipline.

But I can teach you a lot of things about goals. setting, personal growth, leadership, other things. Those are things I do every day. So, and, you know, what I would do is just start to farm that out and, you know, gather together a group of folks that are going to help you with this. And that would be some of the key discipline leaders in the area. I assume you guys are doing a bunch on stuff like CAD on computer-based stuff. So you've got some IT, right?

Yes. Yeah. So that's probably one of your disciplines. Another one would, that's what I was assuming. And another one would be obviously the actual architectural or engineering areas. And so who's the senior that can lead some of that? And we have a thing internally called Entree Leadership University that's available to our team members. And basically it's our people teaching on Tuesday morning at 7.30 a.m., anybody who wants to come and get better at anything.

And those are the general courses on leadership, on branding, on marketing, on marketing, on goal setting, on strategic thought, on conflict resolution, all those kinds of things. And we just have a general opportunity to come in. And individuals will teach those that work here, that just have a passion for that particular area. And then the disciplines break up at other times and have their own individual development schemes and plans and tracks that they lay out within the given areas. For instance, the marketing team, you know, they'll get together and have, you know, forward-thinking marketing discussions. The digital marketers will even pair off and talk about just digital marketing and so on. So now that we're a little larger firm than you guys, but so in terms of a number of bodies,

I don't know how far you can splice this, how many, how thin you can slice it. But for sure, it's not up to you to do all the teaching, is my point. Gotcha. Yeah, I do have a ton of self-imposed pressure to succeed because I have 80 plus employees that I feel like I'm responsible for. I think that's part of the issues I'm having to make sure I do this correctly because I do feel like their lives are in my hands. Yeah, that's beautiful. You're a servant leader. You got the right heart, man.

You're the right guy for the job because you care about them and you take this responsibility very seriously. but having said that, your job is to give the horse a map to the water and provide the water. You can't make the horse drink the water. Right. And I can't control someone's lack of appetite for personal growth. All I can control is that their, you know, their future is limited based on their knowledge base being limited because they chose not to drink the water. Or the Kool-Aid, if you want to call it that. Understood.

Hey, Chris, thanks for the call, man. That's good stuff. So a good rule of thumb for all of you out there is, like, if you're interviewing people, if I'm interviewing a leader or one of our leaders is interviewing someone to come into a leadership role, it is my opinion that 100% of high-quality leaders are readers. So if the answer to the question, what is the latest non-year-old? fiction book you have read draws a blank Tiger King looking stare like I've zoned out on Netflix instead. This is not a leader. This is someone who might be a manager. They might be a

boss, but they're not going to lead. Leaders are all readers. So be reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading, reading. On my desk at this moment are two books in my study one is a nonfiction and one is a fiction and I'm arguing with myself which one I'm going to tear into next. I just finished three non-fiction. So I'm kind of wanting to take a break and read Jack Carr's latest book. Great, great stuff. And so I'm a huge Jack Carr fanboy. And so, but that'll just burn up some calories and it'll be great. It'll be a great read. You need to be reading. You need to be developing. So to Chris's point and to the point of his job, part of his job description is now, to create a situation where you've got continuous learning going on all through the organization. A zest for getting better.

A zest for learning. And sometimes people will come and, you know, they don't want to do that. They want to just get paid for doing as little as possible. And then you've identified that you made a bad hire. So that's how this process goes. So continuous learning for all of us, but especially, those that want to move up and do more. You don't increase your capacity by staying the same.

You don't increase the capacity of the vessel or the cleanliness of the vessel by staying the same. This is the Entree Leadership Podcast. Welcome to the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Dave Ramsey. I'm glad you're here. This from Fortune.com, Gen Z is at the top of Boston.

firing list for being difficult. Just like parents, bosses have their not-so-secret favorites, and when it comes to being managers' pets, the most junior employees in the office are often not selected. Nearly three-fourths of managers find Gen Z to be the most difficult to work with, according to a resume builder survey. Many bosses are getting frustrated on a regular basis with 49% reporting that working with Gen Z was difficult most or all of the time. Only 4% of respondents said it was never difficult to manage Gen Z. As a result of COVID-19 in remote education, it's possible that Gen Zers lack

the foundation to be more successful than older generations at entry-level positions, said Resumey Builders' chief career advisor, adding that communication skills don't develop as well when we learn and work remotely. Let me say that again. Communication skills don't develop as well when we learn and work remotely. We could just say all skills don't develop as well when we learn and work remotely. Managers also reported problems with perceived lack of effort, motivation, and productivity among Gen Z. The reputation we've gained for quiet quitting, in which workers don't put in more work than is required of the job description may be to blame for that. Well, this is, I'm sorry to the folks at Resumay Builder Survey, but you got this all wrong.

You just mess this whole thing up. Because the problem is not Gen Z. The problem is the people you were interviewing suck as leaders. I've got a building full of Gen Z and millennials, probably 500, 600 of them working here. And they are possibly the best generation we have ever hired. Now, I will tell you a couple of things about them. And if you fall in the Gen Z or Millennial, you might want to self-check on this

because you're getting this reputation by these people out here like this resume builder survey. So I will tell you that Gen Z is a bifurcated generation, meaning that there are only two kinds, awesome and sucks. They're absolutely horrible, or they're amazing, and they're mission-driven, and will charge the gates of hell with a water pistol. And if you get those out of the Gen Z group, and there's plenty of them, you've got some of the best workforce on your team because they care so deeply, passionately.

And they will argue with you which play to run to score because they want to win the Super Bowl. They don't want to lose. And then there are the participation trophy gathering raised by a helicopter mom whose only professional skill in a great irony is call of duty. And they've never had a single call of duty in real life. And so they're pitiful and they're useless as employees and you don't want them. But you interview for that. So if you've hired one of the pitiful ones, that's not their fault.

You suck at hiring. Your interview skills are horrendous because they're not really good at face. making it. They're not good at lying. Boomers, boomers can look you straight in the face and make you think they're a thoroughbred when they are an absolute, e-ho donkey, absolute. Gen Ziers are too authentic to do that. They'll just look at you and go, I want you to pay me a lot, and because you're the boss, I think you suck. And you don't hire that moron. You send them back to their mother's basement. But a Gen Zer that's game on that is driven, that is missional, they are the best and the smartest on the planet. And let me just tell you, the digital world we live in is native

to them. Boomers still trying to figure out how to reset my phone over here, right? A stupid thing breaks. It takes three people to keep Ramsey's technology fixed because I break it all the time. But these guys, they've had a phone in their hand in their crib. And they know how to, their brain thinks this way. You have a tremendous advantage when you get a high quality set of Gen Zs on your team. And so here's the rule of thumb in leadership. I've heard leaders in Entree leadership for years say, oh, the problem is my team.

The problem is not your team. You hired them. You're the problem. if you let crazy in your building, it's your fault. If you let lazy in your building, it's your fault. And I've done it. I've let crazy and lazy in the building. And, you know, I've stood on stage and said,

don't let the door hit you in the butt on the way out, you know? And they put that in the newspaper when I said that. So, you know, but I meant it. I'm fine if you hit the door. If you're here working a J-O-B and you're trying to collect a check, and you want to quiet quit. We're going to have a loud firing to go with your quiet quitting. We're going to put your little butt on the skids.

If I can figure out you're here and one of my leaders, all my leaders feel the same way. But on the other side, I'm not going to sit and blame a generation that is brilliant and that cares very deeply, or there are members of the generation that are brilliant and that care very deeply. Man, I've seen some 22-year-old, some 19, year olds that will work circles around some of you people that are bitching about this stuff. And so you can't throw them under the bus in my presence.

I love this generation. I think they're amazing. Now, I will tell you this. Here's one thing that is completely different about them. And you have to lead this. It requires strong leadership. It requires loving leadership. And they got a note.

And let me tell you two things about they cannot stand a lack of a lack of, authenticity. They can't stand an inconsistent hypocrisy where there's one set of rules for one people, another set of rules for other people. So I live by the same rules in this building that everybody else lives by. And if I can do that, you can to shut up and get to work. Okay? So they cannot handle the lack of authenticity. So you better plan on being real all the time and you better plan on being a person of character and a person who cares deeply about the same things that we're all aiming at and caring about. And so they got no tolerance for lack of authenticity or hypocrisy, which I, again, love because I don't either. I'm just an old redneck hillbilly.

It is what it is, and whether you like it or not, it's okay with me. I'm not really taking a poll, you know? So this is what we're doing. The second thing about them is this. they have grown up. And so if you're not a millennial or a Gen Zier, listen to me carefully, their brains work different because, again, they have grown up with a magic wand in their hand. They don't know a world without a smartphone.

The world has always been smart for them. And let me tell you what that does. You've got a magic wand in your hand, you push a button, crap shows up on your front porch, right? you push another button there's the weather you push another button i mean that nobody talks on these phones that's the irony you know we text and we email and we instagram and we do all these other things and we communicate and so that they this is the way their brains work now let me tell you what walking around your entire freaking life with that kind of power in your hand does it makes you think that you can do anything.

There's a, what a psychologist would call an agency that goes with it. They have tremendous agency, there's tremendous sense of, I'm not limited, and I don't have to do what you tell me to do. I can go somewhere else. And so they'll hit the eject button on your job and go somewhere else because they don't, they're not, they don't feel bound by anything because they, they have this. this boundless capability in their hand their entire life. The entire database, database of human knowledge has been in their hand their entire life.

Think about that. Where, you know, the guy talking right now used to have world book encyclopedias that were 10 years old that we did book reports out of. So the data was already 10 years old when we used it. And we had to go look it up in a book, you know, instead of Googling it. It's a different mind. It's a different, I mean, we felt a humility to knowledge. There was a sense of humility to knowledge, and they assumed they feel entitled to knowledge, but not in a bad way.

But it gives them a strange type of confidence bordering on arrogance sometimes, because they've had so much power in their hand their entire lives. And again, that makes them wonderful, if led properly. and put in a proper environment where we know what's going on and where we're all on the same page. But if you feel that kind of power and you're in a situation where the leader is inauthentic is a hypocrite where the leader is looking down on someone just because of their generation, they're going to hit a jack down you. So, you know, let me just tell you, if you want to be, if you want people to be loyal to you as a leader, Let me help you with this.

You got to be loyal to them first. It never occurs until you first. And if they don't know you got their back, then they're never going to have yours. There's no possibility. And so when the survey reveals that this percentage of leaders, many bosses are getting frustrated on a regular basis with 49% reporting that working with Gen Z was difficult most or all of the time, that is not the. that is not the Gen Z's fault. That's the leader sucks. That's the problem.

You got bosses. Many bosses. Yeah. See, bosses push, leaders pull. This is an entree leadership principle. So you got to check yourself leaders and make sure you're not being a boss. Because Gen Z, they don't do bosses.

But buddy, if you'll lead the charge, if you'll be on the front horse with the saber drawn pointed at the enemy and the bugle blowing the battle cry, they will follow you. And they will be the hardest fighting warriors you've ever seen in your life if you get the good ones in there. So you've got to hire properly, you've got to fire instantaneously when you realize you got a donkey. And not being a mean about it, but just, you know, because there's no fix in this. their helicopter mama already ruined them and it's not my job to fix what she screwed up and so i can't do that but if i get a good one and i'll just lead and i'll declare charge

i look to my left i look to my right there's more often a gen zer standing there fighting with me than one of the other generations so don't run this generation down i love this generation and don't let your failure to lead be an indictment of them that's on you this is the entree Leadership Podcast. Hey, this is the Autray Leadership Podcast. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Are you a business owner who's feeling trapped by your business? Feel like you're always running on the treadmill, and if you stop the business stops,

mm-hmm. Well, that sounds like if that's the case, you're in the first stage of business. We've identified clearly five stages of business. The first stage is the treadmill operator. If you want to level up and go from treadmill operator to Pathfinder, we can show you how to get off the treadmill. And it's going to start with some stuff like time management and working on your business

instead of just in your business and all that kind of stuff. We can lead you right through it. Entree Leadership Elite is our digital product. You get a customized action plan to help you solve the challenges at every different stage. So in the treadmill operator stage, you're going to learn how to master your time, delegate better, and hire better people.

Great people. You'll also have access to tools and video courses, live coaching, webinars, and all kinds of stuff. And by the way, your first 30 days on Elite is free. Free, free, free, free, free, free. Did I mention it's free? The first 30 days is free. So if you've got five to 200 team members, Elite is designed for you.

Jump in there. Give it a free shot and look at where you are. Get the assessment done and figure out which of the levels you're at. which of these five stages you're at, and then we'll show you the six drivers of business and which ones apply most heartily to your particular stage so that you can level up. We've been through all five of these stages here at Ramsey

over the last 30 years, and we've walked with tens of thousands of companies through them. That's how we've been able to build elite in such a powerful methodology to help you level up. So go to Entreleadership.com slash elite. Entreeleadership.com slash elite. Did I mention it's free for the first 30 days? James is in Birmingham.

Hey, James, what's up? Hey, Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I'm the branch manager for a roofing distributor. We do about $15 million a year in sales. And I've just taken over a new location here in Birmingham. I've got an awesome team, an awesome assistant manager,

and he's the reason why I'm calling. He's a young guy in his early 20s. He's a go-getter. Operations-wise, he does a great job. Any task I throw at him, he gets it done quickly and efficiently. But he lacks a little bit of tact when talking with customers and vendors and people who are a little more seasoned than him. So I'm wanting to get some advice on how I can rein him in a little bit on some of the

things he says, but not hinder some of that go-getter spirit. Okay. Well, it sounds like more than anything, it's just emotional maturity. So what I would do in this situation is just start setting aside a coffee of a 30-minute coffee with him once a week. and this is our subject, people skills. Yeah. Because the one, I would look at him and say the one thing keeping you from being way over the top.

The one thing that's going to hold you back is the edge in the way you're handling people and your people skills. And I think, I think your potential is unbelievable. And I want to help you unlock it because I think the biggest blocker you've got is this. And as an older guy, I'm going to come alongside you put my arm around. you, we're going to walk this out together. I'm going to send you a copy. I'm going to send you two copies of Pat Lynchione's book, The Ideal Team Player. Okay.

And Pat talks about that the, have you read that already? Not yet. I do have it on my reading list, though. Okay. I'll send it to you and give him one. The ideal team player is hungry, humble, and smart. And humble, humble is not humiliated. humble is I think more of others than I do of myself.

It's not, I think, you know, I, I've just worried about everybody else winning. That's, I'm selfless. That's all humble is, okay? And smart is people smart. And so what this guy is lacking is probably a little bit of those two things, but he's got the hungry down. So he's got one and a half out of the three things to be a ideal team player. And I would go through that book with him and go, hey, look, that's you right there.

that's you. Yeah. Yeah, I 100% agree with that. Yeah, that people smart thing is holding you back. And you can use that book to coach him along. And then what you're doing to do is just teach him. Because you're young, people are not going to immediately respect you until they know you and trust you.

And the way they know you and trust you, if they're older than you is you first pay honor to them. You just say, hey, I'm only 12. 22, I don't know how this works. Would you explain to me that the way you're doing this is working? Because I don't understand it. Instead of going, you're doing that wrong, and I'm a 22-year-old genius. Yeah. Which really kind of could be an oxymoron.

Yeah. Yeah. We got some older blue-collar guys that work for me, and, you know. They got no tolerance for this crap. Absolutely not. They're waiting for the college. They want the college to get knocked off this boy. Oh, they can't wait.

Yeah, really. And so, but he can go in and say, you guys know more in your little finger than I may ever know about this subject, teach me. And if he goes at them with that, then he will earn the right to make a suggestion occasionally. Yeah. But he's going in like a bull in a china shop with muddy boots on. And, you know, you just got to clean him up a little. He needs to learn to ask questions and pay on her. and he can get the exact same result he's looking for,

and he won't lose the team in the process. Yeah, I like that. Yeah, that'll work. And just if he can learn to pay on her, ask questions, and just slow down on the people stuff a little bit. I know this guy. I used to be him, so he's a lot of fun. I like him.

He's got potential. Yeah, I think I gained a lot of respect. for them because I straight up told him it was like hey you or me eight years ago yeah I was in your exact shoes and this is how you get on the proper path to the next step in your career is you got to start working on these things yeah and if he doesn't start working on them you're going to have to move him on it's not really it's not really you can't stay if he doesn't fix it we don't need to threaten him with that. But we're going to start the conversation very gently and very mentor-oriented. But if he bows up and becomes arrogant on it and won't work on it, then until

he's willing to work on it, he's going to do more harm than he is good. Yeah. Because you and I both know that most all good things in an organization happen through people, not in spite of people. Exactly. And so you've got to lead people, not thrash them. with your 22-year-old knowledge. It's just humorous. I'm sorry. That's an old guy talking. But, you know, hey, you can get, you can, I'll listen to you all day and listen to how smart you are all day.

If you, if you just accept the fact that I got here before you, you know, that's a good start. That's paying honor, right? I was here first. And I'll probably be here when you're gone. So let's just keep this going, right? This is the Entree leadership. podcast. Hey guys, thanks for hanging out with us here on the Entree Leadership Podcast. I'm your host Dave Ramsey. If you like the show and want to help us, we would appreciate the help. We do

need the help. And how would we, how would you help us? Well, you would help us this way. You would follow the show. You would subscribe to the show on YouTube. Subscribe matters, not just pulling it up and watching it. Subscribe actually moves the needle in the algorithms. And it tells other people that we're here. Thank you for doing that. You can share the show. So click the YouTube link or the whatever it is, whatever the share button is and whatever methodology you're consuming the show, share the show. And you can leave us the old five-star review.

That's a big help. Thank you very much. We do need all we can get from you on that. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Our question of the day comes from John in Australia. Wow, cool. What do you think of offering equity to non-owners? I'm the CEO of a general practitioner's practice, similar to family physicians in the U.S.,

with 40 GPs working with us. I'm considering offering equity to them but wanted to get your thoughts. John, I don't know enough about what is customary in that situation in your particular world. In the U.S., an equity position among a group of medical doctors for, for instance, owning a practice together is a fairly standard thing, like four docs or five docs open a practice, and they are the owners of it. And you could buy in or buy out. A new guy could come in or gal can come in and that kind of a thing. And that's a fairly standard process. And there seems to be a good enough model for how those operate in the U.S. that I don't see

a ton of those things melting down. The other organization that does that fairly well in the U.S. attorneys, you can, quote, make a partner. And that in a sense makes you one of the partners in the firm. You're an actual owner of the firm. And so you will participate then in the ownership position. But again, if you leave, there's a buyout provision and a process that is mandatory and preset. And so there seems to be very little.

destruction of law firms as a result of lawyers coming and going as partners. A partner leaves and opens their own thing. They seem to be able to execute the tactical moves to cause that to happen. Every other form of business, it's a complete disaster. Two guys opening a heat and air company together. One of them gets a divorce. You got a mess. They want to build a buyout.

Number one, they very seldom do their partnership agreement well. number two anything with two heads is usually called a monster and so you know the pardon we we always say the only thing the only ship won't sales a partnership so at ramsie i have 14 operating board members uh and they are all paid very very well off of the bottom line of the profits the same line on the p andl i get paid off of as the owner so they have all the benefits of being a partner income-wise, but they actually don't own any of the company. They don't have any equity in the company. And so if they leave, they just leave that income.

They no longer make that money. It's very simple and very clean. And I've had a couple of them retire. I've had a couple of them go on to other things and so forth. And so over the years, I've one pass away after he left. And so, you know, I've been through that. So I would say in almost everyone listening out there, avoid equity positions. It's an entanglement that sounds good on the going in, but very difficult going out.

It's very messy going out. And that can really cause drama and cause financial strain, cash strain on everyone that's involved. And it's just not worth it. The upside is not good enough to the good parts of having equity versus just getting paid off the bottom line very well. It is not enough. And so we've chosen not to do it. It's not because we're selfish. We've chosen not to do it because we don't think it works as well.

Now, again, you're in a medical scenario in a different country with a different culture. And it might be that you're more like a group of medical doctors here and you can put that together there. And that's fine. But is it necessary to motivate or retain quality people to give them an equity position? Answer is no. If they're ready to leave, they're going to leave anyway. Or if they need to leave, they're going to leave anyway. So, you know, equity position doesn't make people competent that aren't, doesn't make people behave that are misbehaving.

It doesn't, you know, it doesn't make cocaine go away, right? I mean, you know, this is the problem, right? So these are all still there. The only difference is what you've got to untangle to get there. So in general, the only ship that won't sail is a partnership. We avoid them like the plague around here. We suggest people avoid them. And if you're not going to avoid it, make sure your agreements cover all the Ds.

The Ds are what gets you. Divorce, default. I don't want to work here anymore. That's default. Disinterest. I don't want to work here anymore. That's disinterest. Or I'm going to keep showing up but not do work while I'm here.

Yeah, that's disinterest, right? Drug use, divorce, disability. There's a real sad one. But what if they weren't able to work? What do we do with them now? You better cover that. You better have what happens when the bad stuff happens as a part of the agreement. Death?

I mean, if you get a divorce from your part, If you're, if you're part, two guys start a business together, two gals start a business together, and you get a divorce. Now you're working with your, your partner's X because the judge awarded the stock to them. And now you're partners with your partner's X. Now tell me that's going to be fun. That gives me a little throw up in my mouth, just saying it, okay? That's just bad news right there. So that, you know, death, what are you going to do if somebody dies?

now buy-sell agreement with insurance see we've got all kinds of complication now we've got all kinds of cost involved in administrating this thing i would avoid this but make sure you cover all the ds drug use default death disability divorce those are the ds that come to mind off the top of my head there's probably more of them but all the bad stuff that can happen have it have the plan in the agreement in the equity agreement so that we know how we release this mess that we've created. Kent is next. Kent is in Charlotte, North Carolina.

Hi, Kent. Welcome to the Entree Leadership podcast. Dave Ramsey, the man, the myth, the legend. Thanks for taking my call. Well, the myth parts there. What's up? So, yes, I own a lawn care company here in Charlotte, North Carolina. We do weed control and fertilization for commercial and residential properties on a monthly

basis. We're in our second year of business. We have two full-time technicians and three out-pidate. trucks. I'm happy to say we are debt-free as a company. Way to go. By the, yeah, at the end of this year, we are projecting to have around 650 monthly customers and around 480,000 of expected annual revenue as a baseline as we head into our third year next January. So to build up to my questions here, as we continue to scale and add more and more monthly customers, you know, we're also increasing the amount of challenging customers. Now, Dave, I love this stuff. It's the reason

while I got in this business. So, you know, I strive on a day-to-day basis to bring a level of excellence to our customers, even the difficult ones, and ensure they're all having, you know, a positive experience with us, essentially at all cost. However, I have found that these challenging customers in situations are starting to take a lot out of me emotionally since I'm still so close to the fire on the day-to-day stuff. So I'm looking for some guidance on how can I sustain this level of excellence for my customers and separate my personal emotions from my business emotions? Well, I want to have a lot of emotion around the demand for excellence in customer satisfaction. You want to be emotional about that. People that aren't emotional about it

don't care about it. I mean, we're not psychopaths. We actually have feelings about this stuff, and you should have feelings about it. That's good. So what person, you said you got 650 right now, right? No, we're right in the middle of sales season, so we're adding customers. Okay, so how many are you going to have? What's customer base? So we're looking to, we're projecting to be about 650 monthly customers by the end of this year. Okay, so 650 customers. What percentage of them are difficult?

I would say very small. You know, it's different because in the industry, it's 10 people? 10%? No, it's not. I mean, it's probably 1, 2%, if that. But when you are a month-to-month service, you know, we just naturally, just in the environment that we're in, the industry that we're in, the results are so hard to manage, you know, the customer is doing something they're not supposed to do or doing something they shouldn't do. And it's just tough to get the results. So you're constantly getting, not constantly, but we have these situations that we're in.

So it sounds like you got 10 people out of 650. So we're at 400 right now. But yeah, I mean, I would say on a month-to-month basis, we probably have 15 customers that reach out with problems. Yeah, but they're not all difficult people. They just have problems. Well, yeah, I mean, it could be naturally problems. It could be unrealistic expectations, which we do our best, obviously, set those at the front end and throughout the relationship together. But, yeah, you know, it's just like I find myself, you know, getting two or three in a row in a week or even a day.

and it's just, you know, I feel like we're doing all the right things, and this just kind of sucks the wind out of my sales. If you need perfection to operate the business and everybody to be happy 100% of the time, that's on you, because obviously that's unrealistic. But then on the other hand, I'm going to adjust what I can adjust, and single offenders are not the problem. It's repeat offenders that are the problem.

When I'm looking at human beings, behavior stuff. What I'm looking at is not a singular event. I'm looking for patterns. Okay. And if, uh, let's just call this guy over here, Bob, if Bob is bitching all the time, not just once when you actually screwed up or because you didn't have a good day when you set the expectations. So you got to reset the expectations. Because sometimes you just reset the expectations and everything's fine after that, right? Sometimes you reset the expectations and Bob's just got Bob problems. Right?

And so we're just going to have to help Bob go somewhere else. You need to carry some of your competitors, business cards. Say, Bob, I think I know a guy that can help you because apparently we can't. Right. And you need to fire a few of them. But don't fire everybody that one time has a gripe. That's not what I'm talking about. Because sometimes we have customers complain around here and their complaint is valid.

because we screwed something up, right? And that's just an opportunity for correction and excellence and building the business and building a process or a system that's better that fits the code that we're doing and so on. Those don't give me a problem, but it's somebody that's either going to be completely irate and out of control, which we don't give you second chances on that.

We don't have people call in here, yell, cuss, and scream at us. You don't get to do that. We don't, you know, we don't need to help you that bad. Go away. You know, so, but so if you're going to call in here and, you know, choose somebody out on the phone and yell and scream and cuss, you're done. What does, what does cancel your account, send your money back, whatever. We're not, we don't need you. But, but, and then number two, if you're going to be a pattern complainer, then that's on you as the customer and we're going to exit you as a customer as well.

Probably a little bit more gently than the irate person who won't stop dropping the F-bomb on some. right here. You know, we just get rid of them. Sure. But, but, uh, but, uh, occasional complaints are a function of business, because a function of businesses, sometimes you're going to mess up. And you really want those. Because you, the ones that don't complain and are, are dissatisfied, they're not helpful. Because you don't know you're doing it wrong. I agree. So yeah, I want, okay, so I need to go back reset expectations, but like three strikes you're out or four strikes you're out or whatever there's a pattern i'm not going to

babysit your psychological problems that's not my job you're just a customer but i am here to babysit your lawn no i didn't make total sense yeah i mean that's i guess that's where my struggle is you can get these customers in every 60 days there's always an issue and yeah then let me i not only navigate those if every 60 days is a pattern yeah you know i you know this is the third time we've had this conversation. And I don't, you know, we have 650 other customers, and we don't seem to have that same problem with them. So apparently the way we do this does not match up with you, Bob.

And so, Bob, we're just going to, you know, we're going to refund your money back to the first of the year. And whatever we've done for you, so far, we're going to give it to you free. And, you know, let me tell you who else is in the business. You need to give them a call. Here's their number. And maybe they can help you because I'm not able to help you. And we're going to end the service.

Sure. Fire them. But all we're talking about is five a year. Because the rest of them are your fault, and it's a complaint, and you need to fix something. Or it's a one-time thing. It's not a pattern, and they're not irate. So if it's an irate guy who's just going to yell and scream or gal, and they think their job is to just chew everybody out all the time, I don't have time for that. That's silly.

You've just, you got psychological. You need to spend your money on counseling, not fertilizer. you know, and so, you know, and that kind of person, right? You know what I'm saying? But it's not very many of them that are stealing your joy, Kent. Sure. No, I agree. And that's some good perspective.

Yeah, I just put my, you know, I mean, I just put my heart and soul into everything I'm doing. Me too. Yeah, I know. Yeah. And then I get some moron leaves a negative one-star review on my podcast, you know. Right. So far I don't have any of those. It's just the way it works, man.

Just the way it works. It's okay. I mean, you just keep going, but I, you know, I'm not for everyone. If you want sophisticated and highly educated and teaches business classes at the university, you don't want Dave. I'm just a redneck that gets it done at a scale most people have never dreamed of. So, you know, I'm not for everybody. You're not for everybody, Kent. you know, you're not going to make everybody happy because some people are messed up

and some people just aren't supposed to be your customers. And, you know, when you come to that, it's that gives you great joy. I don't get great joy in running people off, but we're not afraid to run one off if we need to. And I've authorized everybody in this building to not take abuse. All of my team, I don't want any of them to be abused by somebody's misbehaving. So don't you allow you to be, have five people out of, 650 take the joy out of running your business. Just they need to go. Bob needs to go somewhere else, man.

Sorry for those of you that are actually named Bob out there. No Bob's were killed in the making of this podcast. No Bob's were fired in the making of this podcast. This would be a metaphor, Bob. Okay. Just helping you all out for those of that didn't know. Hey, man, we're so glad y'all are with us. Thank you.

Thank you for hanging out. I love this. I love doing this show and I love working with small business people. Thank you. and Kent, you're a rock star, man. You're doing really good stuff. And you are 99% perfect. I mean, you can't really argue with your results. Pretty stinking cool, really. Hey, guys, remember, better a wary warrior than a quivering critic. Leaders serve. Leaders are active, not passive. Leaders act on principle, not appearances. This world needs more high-quality

leaders, so choose to lead. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for listening to the Entree Leadership podcast.